By the way, if you are interested in this project you should be following Wheeler District (https://twitter.com/WheelerDistrict), Blair Humphreys (https://twitter.com/bdhumphreys), and UnFrSaKn (https://twitter.com/unfrsakn) on Twitter. Lots of great pictures in the last few days now that the charrettes have started.

I've been here since 10 and sort of live Tweeting. KOCO came by earlier. I'll share the photos I take each day. Given how many creative people came together yesterday at Grill on the Hill, this project has the best folks you can put together. It's in good hands.

Design Group Plans Development Along Oklahoma River

http://www.news9.com/story/25992487/design-group-plans-development-along-oklahoma-river

Wheeler District Charrette - Grill on the Hill (July 9 2014)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/williamhider/sets/72157645216570279/

Wheeler District Charrette- Design Studio (July 10 20124)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/williamhider/sets/72157645630953215/

Wheeler District Charrette- Design Studio (July 11 20124)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/williamhider/sets/72157645225729338/

Wheeler District Charrette- Design Studio (July 11 20124)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/williamhider/sets/72157645225729338/

Great photos Will!

It's sad that this is still in the planning stages... I want it to be completed already!

Still exciting though!

I'm just excited about seeing it begin to take shape. I'm HOPING that ground breaking/demolition can start in the next year.

Here are a couple of particularly interesting ones (although any plans are still very conceptual at this point):



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/airpark71114a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/airpark71114b.jpg

Wheeler District Charrette - Design Studio (July 12 20124)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/williamhider/sets/72157645622387106/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkCbMtGQ53U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkCbMtGQ53U

It's stunning to me that so many people are not only interested in this project, but actively volunteering their time and efforts over some very long sessions.

Especially since this is a private development.


Great credit to Blair Humphreys and to the spirit of urbanism in OKC.

It's stunning to me that so many people are not only interested in this project, but actively volunteering their time and efforts over some very long sessions.

Especially since this is a private development.


Great credit to Blair Humphreys and to the spirit of urbanism in OKC.

Yes. It's showing up on my FB feed from people I wouldn't normally associate with such things. The interest seems very real.

Here are a couple of particularly interesting ones (although any plans are still very conceptual at this point):

[center]
http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/airpark71114a.jpg


Oddly enough, the thing that intrigues me the most about this picture is the dualing roundabouts on Western and I love it.

It's stunning to me that so many people are not only interested in this project, but actively volunteering their time and efforts over some very long sessions.

Especially since this is a private development.


Great credit to Blair Humphreys and to the spirit of urbanism in OKC.

Agree. One thing that I think is being undersold right now and contradicts what some still use to criticize the city's community is that people give a crap now and get involved. You're not seen as some business hating eccentric activist anymore if you participate in development feedback as a citizen. You're simply seen as someone who has interest in projects in the city. It is very cool for Humphrey's to recognize that and actively include that in his development process.

I honestly don't consider the Oklahoma River a "real" river. I consider it a man-made river if anything.

Because it has dams or locks on it?

If that's the standard, there aren't any real rivers left in the country.

Agree. One thing that I think is being undersold right now and contradicts what some still use to criticize the city's community is that people give a crap now and get involved. You're not seen as some business hating eccentric activist anymore if you participate in development feedback as a citizen. You're simply seen as someone who has interest in projects in the city. It is very cool for Humphrey's to recognize that and actively include that in his development process.

I don't mean this the wrong way but...

Isn't it a bit odd that dozens of people are taking days out of their lives to help with planning a private development?

Big city-wide public projects haven't come close to matching this type of turnout and effort.

Again, credit to Blair, it just seems like I'm missing something here.

I don't mean this the wrong way but...

Isn't it a bit odd that dozens of people are taking days out of their lives to help with planning a private development?

Big city-wide public projects haven't come close to matching this type of turnout and effort.

Again, credit to Blair, it just seems like I'm missing something here.

It might be because they feel like this is something where the person in charge wants to hear their opinion versus a politician who might be just doing it for show and no good will come out of it.

It might be because they feel like this is something where the person in charge wants to hear their opinion versus a politician who might be just doing it for show and no good will come out of it.

+1

+1

Yep.

I've gone over and looked at the ideas (and provided a little guidance) because even though it's a "private" project, it will have great public input. Plus, they've brought in fantastic planners and designers to help with this work. It's fantastic to get to interact with them and help shape something.

Also, to be blunt, the City likely wouldn't be able to afford this level of input without taking crap from many people. Since this is private, they can spend what they need to in order to do this right. The City should be doing this level of effort on many projects, but they can't/don't.

I've gone over and looked at the ideas (and provided a little guidance) because even though it's a "private" project, it will have great public input. Plus, they've brought in fantastic planners and designers to help with this work. It's fantastic to get to interact with them and help shape something.

Also, to be blunt, the City likely wouldn't be able to afford this level of input without taking crap from many people. Since this is private, they can spend what they need to in order to do this right. The City should be doing this level of effort on many projects, but they can't/don't.

Awesome insight.

I didn't realize the part about the hired planners and designers.

Obviously, Blair has been able to tap into a lot of different groups and interests. Much respect!

I don't mean this the wrong way but...

Isn't it a bit odd that dozens of people are taking days out of their lives to help with planning a private development?

Big city-wide public projects haven't come close to matching this type of turnout and effort.

Again, credit to Blair, it just seems like I'm missing something here.

I think there may be more of a feeling of impotence when it comes to the bigger projects. You can go to the city, and while they may pat you on the back for being there, they already know what they're going to do. Obviously, Blair has a pretty good network in this town, but I still see more community involvement than I can ever remember. Or, at least, that community has been more legitimized and carries more influence than before. I kind of fear that the city council though is going in the other direction and becoming more fragmented and territorial by district, though.

I do think the community has been effective in the boulevard process. We still don't know what we're going to get, but, honestly, after going through the I-40 realignment process, I'm surprised ODOT is even pretending to look like it wants to be accommodating.

Good point about the boulevard.

Awesome insight.

I didn't realize the part about the hired planners and designers.

Obviously, Blair has been able to tap into a lot of different groups and interests. Much respect!

Yeah, the main firm he's hired is Dover, Kohl & Partners. Dover, Kohl & Partners (http://www.doverkohl.com/) They did much of El Paso's new plan, which has won numerous accolades. Victor Dover also has a new(ish) book out that is really well received: New Book Co-authored by Victor Dover, Dover, Kohl & Partners (http://www.doverkohl.com/street-design.aspx)

Because it has dams or locks on it?

If that's the standard, there aren't any real rivers left in the country.no. Perhaps "real river" wasn't the best term. Go look up what it looked like before the dams were in place with hardly any water in it all, and that is what I meant. Illinois River, Colorado, Mississippi, Arkansas, etc.... those generally have constant flowing water that you can raft or boat down... our river before the dams, you'd be lucky if it was deep enough to swim through.

Much that exists today would not be possible if the river were reverted back to its natural state...

no. Perhaps "real river" wasn't the best term. Go look up what it looked like before the dams were in place with hardly any water in it all, and that is what I meant. Illinois River, Colorado, Mississippi, Arkansas, etc.... those generally have constant flowing water that you can raft or boat down... our river before the dams, you'd be lucky if it was deep enough to swim through.

Not to intrude. ;) But what was there prior to the dams, was literally a giant drainage basin created by the Army Corps of Engineers decades ago in efforts to straighten out the natural alignment of our river and to prevent flooding. While the North Canadian was never a large river, it certainly was not like the ditch that was created to control its 100-year flood plains.

MAPS really has provided us a fantastic blank slate of a riverfront though. Even if it isn't navigable in the practical sense.

Not to intrude. ;) But what was there prior to the dams, was literally a giant drainage basin created by the Army Corps of Engineers decades ago in efforts to straighten out the natural alignment of our river and to prevent flooding. While the North Canadian was never a large river, it certainly was not like the ditch that was created to control its 100-year flood plains.

MAPS really has provided us a fantastic blank slate of a riverfront though. Even if it isn't navigable in the practical sense.Well, what I meant was

this is not a "real" river

Okahoma(Canadian) River before the river improvements
http://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r620-44eae007793e90140acb6e343bbd5e24.jpg

this is

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/California_Zephyr_Colorado_River_Western_Colorado. JPG

Our ''river'' now looks like this

http://www.associationnews.com/anews/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/OklahomaCity_Skyline_River-Photo-Credit-Oklahoma-City-Convention-Visitors-Bureau.jpg

it's beautiful...

But, when I said it wasn't a real river, I meant that it just doesn't flow like a real river. A river is a river, but when I think of a river, I think of the rivers I posted about earlier. Some people don't know this, but the Everglades is considered a river.

Well, what I meant was this is not a "real" river

But you neglected to post pictures of the river prior to the ACoE 'straigtening' the course of the river...

Stretches looked not unlike those of the Illinois river.

Doug has some postcards of the Wheeler/Delmar area on his blog: Doug Dawgz Blog: Delmar Garden & Wheeler Park (http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2006/08/delmar-garden-wheeler-park.html)

But you neglected to post pictures of the river prior to the ACoE 'straigtening' the course of the river...

Stretches looked not unlike those of the Illinois river.

Doug has some postcards of the Wheeler/Delmar area on his blog: Doug Dawgz Blog: Delmar Garden & Wheeler Park (http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2006/08/delmar-garden-wheeler-park.html)Ok.... well, either way, the shape the river was in before the river improvements was laughable at best. I would call it a flood plain rather than a river. The Trinity River in Dallas is kind of the same way.

Here's a better way of saying it.... take away the dams, and what do you get? Mud, dirt, and eventually some grass will grow? I could be wrong on this, but didn't even Ray Ackerman say it was hard for him to call it a river at the time he was pressing for improvements? I remember seeing him saying something like that....

The Colorado, Mississippi, Illinois, etc.... don't need dams to stay full or flow.

The latest update (https://twitter.com/unfrsakn/status/488855677759397888) from Will on Twitter:


#wheelerdistrict After a lot of hard work through this week, a latest draft of Wheeler is complete. Subject to change
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsjDpf3CUAEHNKF.jpg:large

The latest update (https://twitter.com/unfrsakn/status/488855677759397888) from Will on Twitter:

10-20 years is a long time to wait for this... sigh

Maggie Humphreys posted this photo:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsYzLz1CcAAtK6c.jpg

I'll pass that along to all the folks here at the studio....

Neat little video of the gathering:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkCbMtGQ53U

That's posted on the previous page.

Maggie Humphreys posted this photo:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsYzLz1CcAAtK6c.jpg

Western looks great, but who do they expect to pay for the improvements?

Don't take this the wrong way, as I want it to happen, but curious, will this detract from, or contribute to the rise of Capitol Hill? If this happened semi-organically following a master plan, I think Capitol Hill would gain and benefit. However, if there is any sort of competition for city dollars, I fear Capitol Hill might suffer...

I think Capitol Hill is going to be a winner also. I can see a streetcar line going from Capitol Hill, to Wheeler, to Stockyard City, with connecting service from Wheeler to the downtown hub. This would allow everyone living on the South Bank to be within walking distance to every place on the South Bank and downtown. Live in Capitol Hill and want a night out? Just hop the streetcar to Stock Yard City for a steak, stop at Wheeler on the way home for a drink, and sleep it off in your Capitol Hill 3rd floor apartment. You can use the money you save by not having a car payment. How cool is that?

That would certainly be amazing.

Don't take this the wrong way, as I want it to happen, but curious, will this detract from, or contribute to the rise of Capitol Hill? If this happened semi-organically following a master plan, I think Capitol Hill would gain and benefit. However, if there is any sort of competition for city dollars, I fear Capitol Hill might suffer...

This will help bridge the gap between the existing core and Capitol Hill.

My hope is that OKC doesn't have to wait 10 years before there is serious movement on the Wheeler district like the still mythical Core2Shore.

Wheeler District Charrette - Design Studio (July 14 20124)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/williamhider/sets/72157645654203926/

This will help bridge the gap between the existing core and Capitol Hill.

My hope is that OKC doesn't have to wait 10 years before there is serious movement on the Wheeler district like the still mythical Core2Shore.

Public versus private investment. You can't expect the Core2Shore area to develop overnight. The City never promised that either.

Public versus private investment. You can't expect the Core2Shore area to develop overnight. The City never promised that either.

Exactly. Core2Shore is a public planning process. Wheeler District is land owned almost completely privately (except for ROW), and is being developed privately. What you see as public planning process is the developer seeking input on how to develop that entire area they own. Also, they hired Blair as a full time consultant/planner. I'm sure since he's a) family and b) very knowledgeable he is being paid quite a bit of money. The Humphreys won't let this sit for 10 years while paying him that much money. It may take 5-15 years to be fully developed, but that doesn't mean the pieces won't start coming together sooner. We may see some initial progress in the next couple of years, and then allow momentum to kick in.

I'm very excited about this. I could see myself living here one day.

Ok.... well, either way, the shape the river was in before the river improvements was laughable at best. I would call it a flood plain rather than a river. The Trinity River in Dallas is kind of the same way.

Here's a better way of saying it.... take away the dams, and what do you get? Mud, dirt, and eventually some grass will grow? I could be wrong on this, but didn't even Ray Ackerman say it was hard for him to call it a river at the time he was pressing for improvements? I remember seeing him saying something like that....

The Colorado, Mississippi, Illinois, etc.... don't need dams to stay full or flow.

Before it was channelled in the 1950s it looked and flowed just like any other river in the state outside of maybe the Arkansas. We ruined the North Canadian River in the 1950s and fixed it with maps. Take away the dams and it is still as much of a river as the Red, Cimmaron, and the Wa****a which dry up a bit in the summer months of the year. Whether it sucked for 50 years or not, a river is a river.

Wa****a

+1

Wash IT a

Obviously, infrastructure will have to be the first thing to happen on this site. I am curious what hoops they will have to jump through on the ROW issue with the roundabouts, etc. What does everyone think will happen first? Housing? Retail? Office?

But, when I said it wasn't a real river, I meant that it just doesn't flow like a real river. A river is a river, but when I think of a river, I think of the rivers I posted about earlier. Some people don't know this, but the Everglades is considered a river.

It flowed like a real river before the Army Corp of Engineers straightened it (which caused it drain faster) and OKC put two lakes on it (and started pulling out 100,000,000 gallons a day from it). In fact, the Army Corp did what they did because there was so much water it flooded every year.

Ok.... well, either way, the shape the river was in before the river improvements was laughable at best. I would call it a flood plain rather than a river. The Trinity River in Dallas is kind of the same way.

Here's a better way of saying it.... take away the dams, and what do you get? Mud, dirt, and eventually some grass will grow? I could be wrong on this, but didn't even Ray Ackerman say it was hard for him to call it a river at the time he was pressing for improvements? I remember seeing him saying something like that....

The Colorado, Mississippi, Illinois, etc.... don't need dams to stay full or flow.

You're not getting it. The North Candadian is/was a real river. The North Canadian was responsible for massive flooding in downtown during the first 50-60 years of statehood. The ACoE came in to rectify the flooding problem and did their job too well. That's why it didn't have much water in it from the 1950s until MAPS. Do a little history research before saying it's not a real river.

Site Selection - JUL 2014 (http://siteselection.epubxp.com/i/340517/112)

This is an amazing photo from that Site Selection article:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/airparksite.jpg

I remember in the early 80's there was a forest of willows and small cottonwood trees levee to levee. Then after a 100 year flood filled the river levee to the top (higher than it is now) it was decided it would be easier to clean if the trees were gone - that is when they began to "mow" it. I remember this because I spent a summer working at a wildlife refuge and the rangers there commented on how much wildlife depended on the forest both to live and pass through OKC. I always thought that they should have fenced it and leave it as a wildlife refuge after cleaning the larger garbage out. After cutting down the larger trees, all they had to do was mow it to keep the soft willows, etc from growing back.

Much that exists today would not be possible if the river were reverted back to its natural state...

Good luck to anyone who wants to unring that bell. Here is the best image I have ever seen of it's path before the corp went to work on it.

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/maps/1911planningmaplarge.jpg

Wow! Is that image available in a high-res version?

Wow! Is that image available in a high-res version?

That is as high an resolution as I have seen (though it is larger than most monitors and the forum shrinks it to the width of the monitor, minutes the parts of forum that go on either side), so if you right click and save you should be able to see the full size after opening it, depending on browser it may have something for open the image in a new tab.

Cool, thanks. Would love to have a framed wall map of that.

Wheeler District Charrette - Design Studio (July 15 20124)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/williamhider/sets/72157645759969023/

I love that map.

http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-21791-all-in.html