What Wheeler clearly needs is for Western to be turned into a larger, 6 lane boulevard. /s
Yes thank you for pointing that out. Kerry, confirm my beliefs. Turn Western into a six lane BLVD. Dumbass.

Please, tell us what real urbanism stands for. Obviously it is all being built from scratch so there's no reclamation aspect other than the land, but it is kind of laughable to claim a neighborhood built within inner Southside OKC is representative of white flight. And have you actually spent much time in Wheeler District? From what I've seen in my time there it is actually more diverse than most OKC neighborhoods.
I have I promise. I drink at the Big Friendly. It’s an awesome place. Haven’t been anywhere else yet I walk around. Like I said it’s an awesome development.

What I believe it lacks? Authenticity and sincerity. How else can I describe that to you? I can’t. It just seems to lack diversity and vibrancy which may or may not come with an expansion. We’ll see idk.. I’m rooting for it not against it. A light rail line needs to be built to it. How the f@ck does OKC not have a LRT line yet? Don’t you tell me they have a streetcar!!!

This is all so wrong. This development goes against everything real urbanism stands for. It’s a white flight suburb for those who want to live some weird Truman Show type lifestyle. That said I think this development is cool and very interesting. I am enjoying seeing it go up. But you think they won’t consider a pedestrian bridge across Western for this?
LOL OK…do me a favor then and explain what “real urbanism” is, as far as you’re concerned. It might also be worth looking up Dover Kohl while you’re at it.

I have I promise. I drink at the Big Friendly. It’s an awesome place. Haven’t been anywhere else yet I walk around. Like I said it’s an awesome development.

What I believe it lacks? Authenticity and sincerity. How else can I describe that to you? I can’t. It just seems to lack diversity and vibrancy which may or may not come with an expansion. We’ll see idk.. I’m rooting for it not against it. A light rail line needs to be built to it. How the f@ck does OKC not have a LRT line yet? Don’t you tell me they have a streetcar!!!

What type diversity are you referring to?
Construction type
Price point
Ethnicity
Housing product

LOL OK…do me a favor then and explain what “real urbanism” is, as far as you’re concerned. It might also be worth looking up Dover Kohl while you’re at it.

This is real:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.417792,-77.4100374,3a,75y,11.16h,95.65t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbbOEU0WAnfkOk1siDDBQOA!2e0!7i1 6384!8i8192

I lived in the house with the yellow door when I was a kid.

LOL, yes, I’ve spent considerable time in historically urban environments. Mostly on foot. I’ve spent time in places like Boston, NYC, London. I was in downtown Chicago and Wrigleyville a little over a week ago.

I’ve attended and participated in trainings, conferences, and design charettes from the National Trust for Historic Preservation, the National Main Street Center, the International Downtown Association, Congress for New Urbanism, National Town Builders, and the Urban Land Institute. I don’t really need a primer.

I can also dig around on Google Maps and find dense, historically urban environments that closely resemble what’s been built so far in Wheeler, only with a bit more wear and tear. I could show you a Google street view of a building in Midtown Manhattan, or a white row house in Kensington, and I could point out that they each look nothing like the link you shared, and I’d be right. But that certainly doesn’t make your childhood home any less urban. In fact, that very variety is a STRENGTH of the urban form.

Human scale has multiple forms, but also many consistencies.

Plus, we have yet to see the much more dense and urban development intended for Wheeler. Lots of people commenting here as if what’s been built to date is the holistic final form of Wheeler. Which ignores what we’ve already been told about the place by the developers themselves.

I was responding to PluPlan - who had himself posted in response to me saying Wheeler was a true-to-form new urbanist development by saying “…this is all so wrong. This development goes against everything real urbanism stands for…”

I’d like to know Plutonic Panda’s definition of New Urbanism, so that I may understand EXACTLY where Wheeler has run so far afoul of it.

This is all so wrong. This development goes against everything real urbanism stands for. It’s a white flight suburb for those who want to live some weird Truman Show type lifestyle. That said I think this development is cool and very interesting. I am enjoying seeing it go up. But you think they won’t consider a pedestrian bridge across Western for this?

A white flight suburb in the middle of the city with road connections to the nearby minority majority neighborhoods as well as a new elementary school set up to intentionally draw from both Wheeler and those same nearby neighborhoods? This could not possibly be a worse white flight suburb.

We were told there was funding this year to begin the process for the installation of the roundabouts but that it was pulled at the last minute. We weren't told why it was pulled, but I got the sense that it was due to a particular person not wanting to fund it. We were also told funding may be in the next budget for it, but there were no guarantees. People regularly go 60+mph down Western in this section, so something needs to be done to slow traffic.

It is the Mulsanne Straight from 25th street to the bridge over I 40. Roundabouts would be the best fix for sure.

A white flight suburb in the middle of the city with road connections to the nearby minority majority neighborhoods as well as a new elementary school set up to intentionally draw from both Wheeler and those same nearby neighborhoods? This could not possibly be a worse white flight suburb.

Wheeler has no street connections with the nearby neighborhood. Probably the single most ridiculous thing they did on this development. It gives off "gated community" vibes for sure and we're afraid of those poor people next to use using our roads and parking on the street.

99% of this project is awesome except for the connectivity to the surrounding neighborhoods. I hope they reconsider and when the phases north are build that they will connect with the existing grade at 13th, 12th, and 11th. One of the biggest principles of new urbanism design is connectivity and Wheeler fails at that by essentially build a slight more urban cul-de-sac on the western edge of the development.

17th, 18th, and 19 streets should be connected. Is there any connection at all to the western neighborhood?

Wheeler has no street connections with the nearby neighborhood. Probably the single most ridiculous thing they did on this development. It gives off "gated community" vibes for sure and we're afraid of those poor people next to use using our roads and parking on the street.

99% of this project is awesome except for the connectivity to the surrounding neighborhoods. I hope they reconsider and when the phases north are build that they will connect with the existing grade at 13th, 12th, and 11th. One of the biggest principles of new urbanism design is connectivity and Wheeler fails at that by essentially build a slight more urban cul-de-sac on the western edge of the development.

The plans show connections straight through at SW 11th, 12th, 13th, 14th, and 15th in the north phase. I don't know why there's more limited connectivity on the southern half of the development compared to the planned northern half, but it does appear the streets to the north are already built out adjacent to the development on Douglas while SW 17th, 18th, 19th, and 20th deadend and don't connect through.

There was some dirt work done on Saturday that I thought was the beginnings of opening up 15th street to the west. But after further inspection yesterday I am not sure that is what is going on. When the gate is open on the north side of the Runway, there is access to the west. I live on 16th street and a lot of GPS programs (not Google Maps) give directions to my house by going east on 15th from Penn to the dead end by the school. You can see my house from there, you just can't drive to it. I have had so many packages returned from FedEx because they can't find my house.

Wheeler has no street connections with the nearby neighborhood. Probably the single most ridiculous thing they did on this development. It gives off "gated community" vibes for sure and we're afraid of those poor people next to use using our roads and parking on the street.

99% of this project is awesome except for the connectivity to the surrounding neighborhoods. I hope they reconsider and when the phases north are build that they will connect with the existing grade at 13th, 12th, and 11th. One of the biggest principles of new urbanism design is connectivity and Wheeler fails at that by essentially build a slight more urban cul-de-sac on the western edge of the development.

As far as I am aware this is the current site design and there will be connections to the neighborhood to the west:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler042723a.jpg

The old hangar is coming down.

As far as I am aware this is the current site design and there will be connections to the neighborhood to the west:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler042723a.jpg

Bad siteplan they should’ve fully connected further south.

Bad siteplan they should’ve fully connected further south.

Considering there is an active railroad track and a drainage creek and an existing large debris breakdown company that forms the entirety of the southern border of the current developing Wheeler District site plan, I’m curious how one would fully connect further south?

The old hangar is coming down.

18050

Bad siteplan they should’ve fully connected further south.

I think they stopped going south with the plan due to there being two factors serving as a border. You have the stream stemming from the river, and then you have the railroad. If anything, I would like to see them expand westward towards the pedestrian bridge. But that's way beyond the scope of necessary.

North of 25th to the railroad tracks becomes a mixture of industrial and empty pretty quickly along Western. I might be more conflicted about it if the area immediately across the creek and track was even just a regular neighborhood, but calling it a bad site plan for not connecting it to “Vets Septic Service” or “Dirt Cheap Cars & Trucks” is a bit dramatic.

Last week geothermals went in for some of the cottages on the south end just to the west of the old Hangar. That usually means that we should see foundations in the next few weeks. I am looking forward to seeing how the most southern of these cottages interact with the river. As others have mentioned, the view is not great right now but there is potential. There will be a lot of activity focused on this end of Wheeler for the next few years with the apartments and these cottages being built at the same time.

I wonder about the pool.

I don't see a second one on the master plan and there will be tons more homes and apartments.

Last week geothermals went in for some of the cottages on the south end just to the west of the old Hangar. That usually means that we should see foundations in the next few weeks. I am looking forward to seeing how the most southern of these cottages interact with the river. As others have mentioned, the view is not great right now but there is potential. There will be a lot of activity focused on this end of Wheeler for the next few years with the apartments and these cottages being built at the same time.

Are they putting geothermal under the homes?

All of the homes have geothermal. It's the first physical sign that a home is starting. Sorry I failed to mention that.

All of the homes have geothermal. It's the first physical sign that a home is starting. Sorry I failed to mention that.

Right, I know they are using Geothermal, but where are they putting the ground loops? Given the density I would think it would require at least some of the looping to be under the homes, which makes me wonder what the plan is in the long run for maintenance.

Right, I know they are using Geothermal, but where are they putting the ground loops? Given the density I would think it would require at least some of the looping to be under the homes, which makes me wonder what the plan is in the long run for maintenance.
There’s nothing to really maintain in the loop itself. The loop piping connections are fused and should be thoroughly tested for integrity. Pumps are usually very accessible. Vertical loops can go under structures.

There’s nothing to really maintain in the loop itself. The loop piping connections are fused and should be thoroughly tested for integrity. Pumps are usually very accessible. Vertical loops can go under structures.

Eventually they will need to be repaired/replaced, be that 50 or 100+ years from now. Just interested to know if that's going to involve foundations getting torn up or public space. I assume they are doing vertical loops so it's not like it would be a HUGE undertaking.

Also, does Wheeler own the loops or the actual homeowners?

Eventually they will need to be repaired/replaced, be that 50 or 100+ years from now. Just interested to know if that's going to involve foundations getting torn up or public space. I assume they are doing vertical loops so it's not like it would be a HUGE undertaking.

Also, does Wheeler own the loops or the actual homeowners?

Interesting question - I've never really looked into how the geothermal systems are set up for homes - I'd assume they would be not directly under the house and wouldn't be any different than having to dig up a water or sewer line and replace it like many owners have to do at some point. If the entire system is directly under the house foundation then it would likely never be feasible to repair the system if something happens to it - hopefully there's an easy way to repair leaks or piping. If the pumps are placed in accessible areas like Rover mentioned those are probably the things most likely to break, need repairs, or to be replaced. Seems like most piping underground can last 100 years or more if welded correctly, etc. So the system probably lasts longer than the useful life of any improvements.

I really hate that the hanger has to come down. I was hoping there'd be some sort of use for it, even as a large event centre or dance club (haha).

Now, pretty much everthing identifying the original airport is gone.

Eventually they will need to be repaired/replaced, be that 50 or 100+ years from now. Just interested to know if that's going to involve foundations getting torn up or public space. I assume they are doing vertical loops so it's not like it would be a HUGE undertaking.

Also, does Wheeler own the loops or the actual homeowners?

The pipes could theoretically last up to 200 years or more. But even assuming 50, the other equipment like the heat pumps themselve will have been replaced multiple times. By then they likely will be substantially more efficient and theoretically you wouldn’t need all the original loops the handle the heat rejection/absorption. At his point it is not worth worrying about. There are multiple types of equipment that could easily be used to replace it now. It’s not exactly like this is causing any future problems for the homeowners.

It appears the houses and the sites they are on are owned by the owner. If it were land leases then the loops would probably revert to the land owner at the end of the lease. But it’s a moot point.

Cottages announced for construction. 14 with a middle courtyard. $300,000 range. Around 900 SF.

Any renderings?

They’ve posted some on Instagram.

https://www.wheelerdistrict.com/available-homes/

^^^^^^^
I've said it before in this very thread, but future phases have always been intended to have more affordable housing sizes, types and options. This development is playing the long game. Pricier stuff simply HAD to be at the front end.

If you push affordable to the back end then it will probably be unaffordable by the time they get built.

^^^^^^^
I've said it before in this very thread, but future phases have always been intended to have more affordable housing sizes, types and options. This development is playing the long game. Pricier stuff simply HAD to be at the front end.

Affordable means different things to different people. Even the smallest units they are showing available now, if they cheapened up finishes, etc. you still can't build something like those for under $200/sq ft anymore given material costs, etc. So you're talking long-term maybe you might see small houses around $200,000 to $250,000. Profit margins are super thin for that type of build too - I doubt they do that to much scale when you can make twice the profit on a $300k-400k buildout that they are doing now. I wouldn't be surprised if no real "affordable" housing is built. If you think affordable in the sense of income restricted - then the only way to justify that is to do apartments and size in excess of 100 units to make the syndication costs feasible. That's the down side to affordable programs federally, it makes it impossible to do small scale truly affordable/income restricted projects.

. So you're talking long-term maybe you might see small houses around $200,000 to $250,000. .

i doubt you ever see any houses at wheeler under 300k

https://www.wheelerdistrict.com/home/982-hangar-dr/

It’s small but it is under $300k. Sometimes I wonder if people do even a modicum of research on these threads lol.

Seems pretty clear cut? Previous poster said they doubt we ever see a house in wheeler for under 300k. I presented evidence of a house in wheeler for sale for under 300k. Am I missing something here…?

I mean, yes you did. But 1 house out of like, 600, does not a rule make. You found the 1 exception. But I am glad you spent that time looking to prove him wrong.

I mean, yes you did. But 1 house out of like, 600, does not a rule make. You found the 1 exception. But I am glad you spent that time looking to prove him wrong.

Seems like there are many, many emotionally charged assumptions being made over my posting a wheeler house for sale under 300k. So I will step away.

Seems like there are many, many emotionally charged assumptions being made over my posting a wheeler house for sale under 300k. So I will step away.

Because you made an emotional charge comment. "Modicum of research"

I don't care either way. I'm not going to live there. I'm glad they have some houses less than $300k. I hope they have more going forward.

If you push affordable to the back end then it will probably be unaffordable by the time they get built.

But "affordable" on the front end doesn't help the developer cover initial costs, so it's a tough setup regardless.

Affordable means different things to different people. Even the smallest units they are showing available now, if they cheapened up finishes, etc. you still can't build something like those for under $200/sq ft anymore given material costs, etc. So you're talking long-term maybe you might see small houses around $200,000 to $250,000. Profit margins are super thin for that type of build too - I doubt they do that to much scale when you can make twice the profit on a $300k-400k buildout that they are doing now. I wouldn't be surprised if no real "affordable" housing is built. If you think affordable in the sense of income restricted - then the only way to justify that is to do apartments and size in excess of 100 units to make the syndication costs feasible. That's the down side to affordable programs federally, it makes it impossible to do small scale truly affordable/income restricted projects.
I was being intentional when I said “more affordable,” which was in no way saying that I expect to see “affordable housing” in the below market or subsidized sense.

I would expect that all Wheeler properties will be at or above market rate across the board on a price per square foot basis. And let’s be real, most likely they’ll all be above market. What I meant was that there will be different product available in the form of smaller footprints, likely even some tiny homes, plus condo and other multi-family.

There have been a number of people on here bemoaning the fact that purchase prices started at $400K+ and probably averaged more like $500-600K. Wheeler has been transparent from the outset that the first homes would lean heavily on the upscale market as the development established itself, and then they would begin bringing on additional types of product that was more accessible to other income levels. This is clearly happening beginning with this phase.

Many more people will now find Wheeler accessible from an income standpoint, although they certainly won’t be buying sprawling ranch homes or McMansions, but rather a pretty compact urban dwelling.

Do I think that you’re likely to see below market or federally subsidized housing there? Doubtful, other than the possibility that you might see some workforce housing in the multi family sector, which would also enable some FHA grants.

Seems like there are many, many emotionally charged assumptions being made over my posting a wheeler house for sale under 300k. So I will step away.

Nothing you said seemed unusual. You provided current evidence to the contrary, however minor and technical it was, basically said “it’s not hard to find.” Simple enough. No idea how anyone could read that as “emotional” or “blabbering” or “bashing” without already having a fervent investment.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler082723a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler082723b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler082723c.jpg

WOW! That last picture is incredible. I don't think anyone outside of OKC and maybe most in OKC would have any idea this is Oklahoma City! Absolutely loving watching our City mature and grow and establish different areas of the city as options for style of living.

Ditto!

Pete - wondering if you have any drone shots from directly overhead the houses just so we can see what the (non-)backyard space is like and what the density is on the ground?

Ditto!

Pete - wondering if you have any drone shots from directly overhead the houses just so we can see what the (non-)backyard space is like and what the density is on the ground?

The mid-sized homes typically have a side yard between them and the neighboring properties. Some have yards between the house and the garage. A few have installed small pools.

There are some larger homes on the western boundary with larger lots. And there are also smaller homes without garages and even some condos. The live/work units have decks above their covered parking.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler090523a.jpg

Thx (and for all your pics!), good to see from this perspective...

As they move north, it's going to get even denser. The apartments should start rising out of the ground in the next couple months.

Pete, do you know if they plan to build anything around the oil rig or if there is any new development in the works?

Pete, do you know if they plan to build anything around the oil rig or if there is any new development in the works?

On all the master plans, that area around the rig will remain the same.

I believe the plan is to keep building homes south and those would back up to the rig.

Has there been a proposed timeline for the different "phases" of Wheeler? Assuming those apartments are going up soon. Being in the area is so exciting every time and it still blows my mind how much is still to come!

Has there been a proposed timeline for the different "phases" of Wheeler? Assuming those apartments are going up soon. Being in the area is so exciting every time and it still blows my mind how much is still to come!

There are 10 separate phases and no set timing for any, but the developers have repeated the "multi-decade" timeframe to complete all.

It's hard to believe, but their first home sold only about 5 years ago.

There are 10 separate phases and no set timing for any, but the developers have repeated the "multi-decade" timeframe to complete all.

It's hard to believe, but their first home sold only about 5 years ago.

Thanks! And WOW… 5 years is weird to think about! So much has happened!

Other than demolishing the hanger, it doesn't look like there has been much progress on the apartment complex planned for the southeast corner of this development.

All those homes along the creek at the south end have gone up very quickly.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler120823a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler120823b.jpg

These are the next plats:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler010724a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler010724b.jpg

18738

Drove Wheeler today and what I thought was two row homes turned out to a nine unit apartment complex on the south end of the district. Found the above pic on Sam Day’s IG page.

Wheeler residents were told those larger apartments would begin construction in October 2023, so it’s a bit concerning no progress appears to have been made. Perhaps they are waiting until the single family homes in that area are completed?

Wheeler residents were told those larger apartments would begin construction in October 2023, so it’s a bit concerning no progress appears to have been made. Perhaps they are waiting until the single family homes in that area are completed?

How many apartment projects have you seen start in the past year? The interest rate environment has made it extremely difficult to get MF financed