noticed that construction bid was updated for this development, hopefully we will see something started soon...

are there any recent renderings someone could point me to about this project? i have skimmed some but havent seen anything recent.

If the rendering at the front of this thread is the most current one then I am glad this project is delayed. Why on earth would you create a waterfront development and NOT put the housing next to the water? Are they doing this same Tom Foolery with their Eufaula project?

Why on earth would you create a waterfront development and NOT put the housing next to the water?

There is about a 19 foot difference between the normal water level and the bank, after that the 100 flood plane is somewhere around 7 to 10 feet above the bank (granted they might as well ignore the pre-1960s flood plane but good luck getting underwriters to go along). It also may be necessary to give accommodation for requirements of amenities to plat the development. The park/garden space could make a decent transition to the river-walk and much less costly to fix if the banks are overrun.

The plan being entirely designed around massive surface parking lots seems like a bigger design flaw in what seems like it is trying to be urban.

Although, isn't this just a concept? Even if houses and apartments are put up there, doesn't entirely mean that the water front will go down

I liked the idea of planning a public park centered around the iconic ferris wheel to line the waterfront.

Sooner or later we have to break out of the suburban design concept that every development has to have a park. Core To Shore will have 2 very large parks that will meet the demands for open space. What good is high density urban development if it only exist as nothing more than little islands in a seas of open space? How often do you think people living in those towers will venture across the road, across the open space, and visit the waterfront? And what are they going to even do when they get to that waterfront, ride the same Ferris Wheel every day? Push the buildings right up to the river and around the marina and create a REAL waterfront with real people and real things to do - not made up entertainment options, but 'daily needs and necessity' type stuff.

C2S will not provide us with a world-class waterfront. This potentially could. I agree though it would be nice to maybe move the high-rise row up 50 feet to bring it up to the water, while still leaving the pocket of open space against Western for the waterfront park.

But also keep in mind that we're bickering over a dead development. The real question isn't how urban this project is, but rather, is it even going to happen at all? I would be willing to bet that even if it is revived in the future (keep in mind Humphreys has already put down $7 million on land acquisition), major modifications will be made. It won't be revived until there is at least one major shift in market trends.

Additionally, I'd add that this is a pretty ill-conceived project. I always thought it was a bizarre location.

C2S will not provide us with a world-class waterfront.

Show me two world-class waterfront dominated by a parks. The only one that I can of that even comes close is Chicago, but they have hundreds and hundreds of building along their waterfront park.

Oh my gawd...

Oh my gawd...

Are you stuck on the word "dominated"? Granted, is hard for a park to dominate.

Are you questioning my command of the English language? Right...

This development is deader than the horse that you're beating.. dead development is dead.. for now :Smiley236

Kerry, never wastes an opportunity to be against something, Spartan.

Well there's nothing wrong with being an advocate and standing up for what you believe in, I've just always been a big proponent of picking your battles.

Anything that one of the Humphreys builds in Downtown OKC is going to be heavily influenced by Blair, count on it. This is not a problem developer, the problem is just that they're not developing anything anymore. Grant lost his lunch money on Block 42 which was a disappointing project for him. Kirk is much more interested in Lake Eufala personally, although I think he realizes if he wants to beat his chest anymore in local politics, he'll need to put his money where his mouth is - "ex mayor" doesn't just lend itself to extended local influence like it used to.

Hopefully they get back in the downtown game here soon. Obviously they're planning to, I just don't think "soon." Maybe in 2-3 years we'll see an announcement, maybe it will even involve moving The Waterfront forward (however I doubt that, I think this needs more time to pass), but I really don't expect any applications for building permits from them in the near to medium-range future. It just happens to be that I'm not capable of speculating further than 5 years out on micro economics..

I'm guessing 5 to 10 years out before this project gets underway so any speculation about how it might be developed is just that, speculation. There is little reason to be concerned for now.

Well there's nothing wrong with being an advocate and standing up for what you believe in, I've just always been a big proponent of picking your battles.

Maybe we are just fighting different wars. You seem content with debating individual projects but I am looking at regional long term development trends. That is why you can justify trying to save Stage Center while I am consistently pro-high density and urban developmenta and see Stage Center as a waste of space (now havng said that, I hope this doesn't turn in to a Stage Center thread).

We're talking about 2 miles SW of the downtown core, in an area with nothing nearby, certainly no synergy yet to feed off of along Western. I get your premise, but I think it's important to draw a geographic box that delineates projects that need to pass urban muster. If someone wants to emulate urban and do it outside that box, that's fine and dandy I suppose..

I thought the line of demarcation was I-240/I-44/I-35 loop. This is a large plot of land and I hate to see them use the entire site for something that could fit on 25% of it. Development shouldn't be like a gas expanding to fill the space available.

Show me two world-class waterfront dominated by a parks. The only one that I can of that even comes close is Chicago, but they have hundreds and hundreds of building along their waterfront park.

Parks are one of many solid urban waterfront treatments.

As you noted, Chicago is an example with three of America's most important parks on its waterfront. Other good examples:

Austin's Lady Bird Lake (one of the most active downtown waterfronts in the US and probably the most comparable setting to Oklahoma River)
DC National Mall
Vancouver's Harbor Green Park
Miami's Bay Front Park
Sydney's Royal Botanic Gardens

And also any city with a beach

You know, never mind. We are debating something that probably isn't even definable (what is waterfront and dominant). My only points were these; 1) I would like to see the Oklahoma River urbanized by pushing structures upto the riverbank, and 2) not all private developments should have open space included.

It's a little closer to happening.

Former mayor to develop new area downtown | KFOR.com ? Oklahoma City News & Weather from KFOR Television, Oklahoma's News Channel 4 (http://kfor.com/2013/01/14/former-mayor-to-develop-new-area-downtown/)

Kirk might be offended by this comment though.


Former Mayor Kirk Humphreys purchased the 86 acres, about a mile from downtown, six years ago with her partners.

Man, KFOR really worked themselves over on that article...

Man, KFOR really worked themselves over on that article...

A little less detail would be good.... It was hard to keep track of all the information as I was reading it.

what the deuce was that?

A little less detail would be good.... It was hard to keep track of all the information as I was reading it.

LIKE (since this thread predates the "like" option)

Even though that KFOR article was incredible, I'm wondering if there's actually something going on here or if they're just cleaning things up a bit.

A little less detail would be good.... It was hard to keep track of all the information as I was reading it.

That article literally had MULTIPLE sentences! It kinda wore me out working through it... :eek:

Even though that KFOR article was incredible, I'm wondering if there's actually something going on here or if they're just cleaning things up a bit.

Well, they've deduced that Kirk is really a woman so maybe they're just cleaning things up a bit...

There is a likelyhood something will happen here sooner rather than later. But probably not what you are expecting...

There is a likelyhood something will happen here sooner rather than later. But probably not what you are expecting...

Tell us more??

Spanish inquisition.

There is a likelyhood something will happen here sooner rather than later. But probably not what you are expecting...

Like, as in..it's not going to look like the picture at the top of this thread?

Like, as in..it's not going to look like the picture at the top of this thread?

I think a rule of thumb is that if you see some great looking renderings of a project and then years pass by with nothing happening, that you can expect not to see what was originally proposed.

I think a rule of thumb is that if you see some great looking renderings of a project and then years pass by with nothing happening, that you can expect not to see what was originally proposed.

<sarcasm> sorry you didn't read it...

Anything new on this?

Via live business chat on NewsOK from Steve Lackmeyer:



11:01
Steve Lackmeyer: They are toying with some development concepts. The project is active. But no plans have been decided on yet.

11:15
Comment From Guest
So has the Santa Monica Pier Ferris Wheel that the Humphreys bought just been sitting in storage this whole time?

11:15
Steve Lackmeyer: Yes. Wouldn't it be great if it could be used as part of the new Core to Shore park?

I really wish they'd figure out what they want to do with the Waterfront and get it done. The original idea was awesome. Why can't they just get that going again?

Yes, and with the momentum going in this city coupled with the new I-40 now open, this area is very attractive, especially by the time something could open at the earliest, say 2015.

Hargreaves still lists this as one of their waterfront projects:

Hargreaves Associates - Waterfront Park OKC (http://www.hargreaves.com/projects/Waterfronts/WaterfrontParkOKC)

http://www.hargreaves.com/projects/Waterfronts/WaterfrontParkOKC/OKC_1.jpg

http://www.hargreaves.com/projects/Waterfronts/WaterfrontParkOKC/OKC_2.jpg

http://www.hargreaves.com/projects/Waterfronts/WaterfrontParkOKC/OKC_3.jpg

http://www.hargreaves.com/projects/Waterfronts/WaterfrontParkOKC/OKC_4.jpg


I don't know if that signifies anything in terms of the future viabilty. Perhaps not -- maybe they leave project pages up until it's certain the project is dead.

The people in those renderings crack me up. Guy fascinated with a shore bird (egret) and little league soccer going on right next to people relaxing on the grass. Way too much going on there. Guess I am easily entertained. I really hope this is still as bold as the renderings show and only delayed a few years. This like many other future projects all rely on each other to be successful. One finished ahead too early (Skydance Bridge) and it will seem silly and out of place.

Yes, I hope it comes to fruition. The riverfront area has so much potential in the coming decades. I would love to see that ferris wheel by the river.

This is also Hargreaves...

Hargreaves Associates - Hargreaves Associates American Indian Cultural Center and Museum (http://www.hargreaves.com/projects/Institutional/AmericanIndian/)

The former Zoo Ampetheatre operators are saying that they are building a new ampetheatre in this area and I don't know where else they would put it other than the air park site. This is not the same as the city's outdoor floating stage that is also being built. This group tried to but the airpark when it went up for sale the first time so I know they reallly want thi spot.

I noticed today when driving on Western by this location that numerous dump trucks were pulling in and dropping loads of dirt. It may not signify anything important but something is happening anyway.

There is a likelyhood something will happen here sooner rather than later. But probably not what you are expecting...

Concert venue is set to open along Oklahoma River | News OK (http://newsok.com/concert-venue-is-set-to-open-along-oklahoma-river/article/3804731)

Concert venue is set to open along Oklahoma River | News OK (http://newsok.com/concert-venue-is-set-to-open-along-oklahoma-river/article/3804731)

Interesting sketch included with the article:

http://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w640-4361a0f1b9cb61fe7fe76791563f2625.jpg

Wished it was bigger so I could make out more details.

Wished it was bigger so I could make out more details.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/CuatrodeMayo/TemporaryStage_generic2_zps1fe4820f.jpg

that could be a great concert venue

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/CuatrodeMayo/TemporaryStage_generic2_zps1fe4820f.jpg

Awesome. Thanks!

Well, since you are granting wishes, I have a list for you. I'd like the following items....

:wink:

Seeing the list of company names along the bottom of the rendering led me to investigate them for any further info. However... not much luck.

* Johnson & Associates (there are several -- I'll assume that this is the OKC based company)
Johnson and Associates (http://www.jaokc.com)

But it's just a mainly empty stub.


* Howard Fairbairn Site Design
www.hfsdinc.com (http://www.hfsdinc.com)

Which is also a largely empty stub. Sigh. But they also have a facebook page:

Howard-Fairbairn Site Design - Oklahoma City, OK - Local Business | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Howard-Fairbairn-Site-Design/123967442564)

Which does have some interesting stuff on it, but nothing about the proposed riverfront concert venue. And the last entry is from about a year ago. :(


* Studio Architecture
Home - Studio Architecture (http://studioarc.com)

Well, at least there's actual stuff on their site. But nothing about the concert venue that I can find.

I looked up all those links too but didn't see a larger version so I didn't post the links.

Are those Airplane movie posters flanking the stage...LOL

Are those Airplane movie posters flanking the stage...LOL

I guess someone typed airplane theme into a search engine and that is what came up. lol

I think that it is a really neat location for an amphitheater, but I'm skeptical that Howard Pollack can get this project done. There seems to be more showmanship rather than substance behind this announcement.

I believe the city will ultimately decide where the eventual replacement for the ZooAmp goes.

There are a bunch of little shotgun houses to the west the downtown airpark, I am curious how the residents feel about an amphitheatre being built next door.

I think that it is a really neat location for an amphitheater, but I'm skeptical that Howard Pollack can get this project done. There seems to be more showmanship rather than substance behind this announcement.

I believe the city will ultimately decide where the eventual replacement for the ZooAmp goes.

This isn't meant to be a replacement for the Zoo Amphitheater is it? It's just a private endeavor. Any reason why the city won't permit it? This could be very cool.

The article says that they'll be having concerts starting in June. I hope they come through with that because that would really be awesome for Downtown OKC

Not to be a cynic, but since this is a Howard Pollack production, we can expect "WORLD CLASS ENTERTAINMENT" like REO Speedwagon and Steve Miller Band. Blah.

Seeing the list of company names along the bottom of the rendering led me to investigate them for any further info. However... not much luck.

* Johnson & Associates (there are several -- I'll assume that this is the OKC based company)
Johnson and Associates (http://www.jaokc.com)

But it's just a mainly empty stub.


* Howard Fairbairn Site Design
www.hfsdinc.com (http://www.hfsdinc.com)

Which is also a largely empty stub. Sigh. But they also have a facebook page:

Howard-Fairbairn Site Design - Oklahoma City, OK - Local Business | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Howard-Fairbairn-Site-Design/123967442564)

Which does have some interesting stuff on it, but nothing about the proposed riverfront concert venue. And the last entry is from about a year ago. :(


* Studio Architecture
Home - Studio Architecture (http://studioarc.com)

Well, at least there's actual stuff on their site. But nothing about the concert venue that I can find.

Johnson & Associates - Civil Engineer - They did the canal in the California Street area, I had to coordinate with them on the JDM Place project since they did that section.

Howard & Fairbairn - Landscape Architecture - I worked with Scott Fairbairn at Benham and kind of knew Scott Howard. They have been in the OKC market for a long time and are very good landscape architects.

Studio Architecture - Architecture - Started by some ex-FSB and Benham people, I worked with one of the principals when he was at Benham and worked with the other one who was at FSB at the time on the Henderson Hills Baptist Church new campus master planning charrette. They ended up forming Studio Architecture and did the Henderson Hills campus project. It looks like the one at FSB is no longer there but the one that I worked with at Benham is still there, he was one of the sharpest people that I ever worked with in my professional life. If I were to move back to OKC they are probably one of the first firms that I would talk to.

I would be surprised if they had anything on their sites about the venue since it seems that it just became public which to me would mean that the Humphrey's people just gave it the go ahead.

I think that it is a really neat location for an amphitheater, but I'm skeptical that Howard Pollack can get this project done. There seems to be more showmanship rather than substance behind this announcement.

I believe the city will ultimately decide where the eventual replacement for the ZooAmp goes.

The Zoo Amphitheater is still there and is being run by someone else. The ZooAmp entertain group that use to run the Zoo Amphitheater currently presents concerts and fights to several casinos throughout Oklahoma. I think the city tried/is trying to get the name ZooAmp for obvious reasons.

This new venue will ultimately be competing for the same old geezers and barely out of the their garage bands that will play at the Zoo Amphitheater. lol