Yes, it appears that very few homes sold within Wheeler ever hit the MLS, Zillow, or any other other marketing site. A quick Oklahoma county record search shows that all of the homes on Pedaler's Lane sold for under $250,000 and 13 homes on Runway BLVD sold under $370,000.

Very true. 6 of the 60 sold so far have been under $200K. Only 2 have sold since May 2019 under $250K. 1004 PEDALERS LN Is one of those, which is already on it's 2nd owner after selling for $195,5K in May 2019 and sold again for $215K in August 2020. The other being 932 PEDALERS LN for $169K for 671 sq ft(!).

I guess the point I am trying to make is all the "affordable" ones are long gone and it's only big prices from now on. The cheapest one I see being offered now is $299K on the website. I'm all for them making money trust me and I think it will be a success. That being said you are going to have to open your wallet moving forward.

Yes, it appears that very few homes sold within Wheeler ever hit the MLS, Zillow, or any other other marketing site. A quick Oklahoma county record search shows that all of the homes on Pedaler's Lane sold for under $250,000 and 13 homes on Runway BLVD sold under $370,000.

It is good to know and informs the discussion that you believe a $370K house is considered affordable. I'm not being facetious at all. Maybe I genuinely have an outdated view of what is considered affordable in OKC.

Is your statement, "That being said you are going to have to open your wallet moving forward." based on any factual information or simply conjecture? Phase 2 is currently under construction. Will you please share information that backs up your claim that there will be no affordable product moving forward? 54% of the homes sold so far in Phase 1 were under $370,000. I don't see any reason why the Wheeler team isn't intelligent enough to know that the market demand is for all different types of products at different price points. From what I can tell, the 10-15 3 story shop homes that recently sold out and are currently under construction were all under $350,000 as well.

$150,000-$350,000 house prices for brand new high-end construction in the downtown OKC Urban core is extremely competitive pricing. Less monthly outlay than downtown 2 or 3 bedroom apartment rental pricing. Not to mention these homes are all geothermal HVAC, metal roofs (4-5 times the price of a traditional asphalt roof), high-end interior finishes, etc. Take a look at the standard features on the Wheeler website. A very impressive list that very few new home builders match as a standard offering.

It is good to know and informs the discussion that you believe a $370K house is considered affordable. I'm not being facetious at all. Maybe I genuinely have an outdated view of what is considered affordable in OKC.

I also don't think $370K is "affordable". I make a pretty decent wage for OKC (just over twice the median) and there's no way I would ever buy a $370K house. I could probably afford it, but I'd most likely be pretty house-poor. My current house in Venice (~2000 sf) was bought for $180K-ish 5 years ago, and I believe is now estimated at somewhere above $200K (haven't checked in a while, so don't know for sure), and that takes 1/4 of my monthly income for the mortgage and taxes.

All I am going off of is the website https://www.wheelerdistrict.com/home/ and searching available homes. I can only see what is in front of me. Regardless, it sounds like we just disagree on what is considered affordable.

Do you work here? If you have the info, please share the pricing info for Phase 2.

$150,000-$350,000 house prices for brand new high-end construction in the downtown OKC Urban core is extremely competitive pricing.

So we've switched from affordable to competitive now? Gotcha

$150,000-$350,000 house prices for brand new high-end construction in the downtown OKC Urban core is extremely competitive pricing. Less monthly outlay than downtown 2 or 3 bedroom apartment rental pricing. Not to mention these homes are all geothermal HVAC, metal roofs (4-5 times the price of a traditional asphalt roof), high-end interior finishes, etc. Take a look at the standard features on the Wheeler website. A very impressive list that very few new home builders match as a standard offering.

You just described the houses they are building as high-end. High-end does not equal affordable. Removing the price per sqft removes a lot of context from the discussion as well. Sure you could purchase a $215K house on pedalers lane. But you're getting 700 sqft. That's not a lot of house for a family, so a young couple or single person will typically purchase it. Not too many people making the average wage in OKC could make that work. But again, I think we are looking at this from different lenses and are working from different definitions. Which is fine and good to know. I will continue to enjoy my actual urban experience of living in a core neighborhood for a reasonable price in Shepherd.

August 2020 MLS Stats. Avg price ~240K.

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I challenge anyone to find a brand new home built near the downtown of a major metro selling for under 250k. Regardless of square feet, this is a detached home for sale. If anything like that remotely exists, then find one with the amenities that come with the Wheeler District housing. The value of these homes will go nowhere but up. Yet everyone here is so focused on 370k iS nOt AFfoRDable. Laughs in Los Angeles.

Just for clarification, the homes on Peddlar's Lane do not have garages or on-lot parking. They have shared covered parking that is nearby but not on the homeowner's property.

I challenge anyone to find a brand new home built near the downtown of a major metro selling for under 250k. Regardless of square feet, this is a detached home for sale. If anything like that remotely exists, then find one with the amenities that come with the Wheeler District housing. The value of these homes will go nowhere but up. Yet everyone here is so focused on 370k iS nOt AFfoRDable. Laughs in Los Angeles.

Median annual wage in LA - $62,474
Median annual wage in OKC - $47,004
Average annual wage in LA - $70,586
Average annual wage in OKC - $26,275

Just a quick google search found these, not sure how old or accurate they are, but the massive discrepancy between the average wages completely explain why $370K is easily more affordable in LA than OKC - get a clue, PP... Anybody in any major city would laugh at how affordable most homes are here in OKC (our $200K-ish house would sell for easily 2-3 times that in Chicago suburbs, probably 4-5 times that in Chicago proper, and probably easily the same multipliers would apply in any major city).

If we are going to compare, we need to look at other homes in OKC not in L.A. or Manhattan.

I have no strong opinion about the Wheeler District but I find the backlash and informed debate to be fascinating. There are a lot of undercurrents to all this that are part of bigger national discussions around racism, elitism, public education, gentrification, affordability and corporate welfare.

Just back from quick to Franklin TN (now a suburb of Nashville). Wheeler Park would be a scaled down version of Westhaven, with its own shopping center (including Kroger, plus stores and restaurants), and dense 3-4 story structures, and houses etc, plus a golf course. It’s outside of Franklin in the country, rather than in town, and is definitely upscale in nature. Edmond, as they would imagine.

Frankly, I don't give a **** what houses sell for in LA. I don't live in LA. I don't have the same compensation as people who live in LA. Home prices are highly regional so bringing up any other place is irrelevant unless the demographics are very similar. And this development is not downtown or really even close to downtown. It is connected in no way. Just look at the neighborhoods in this picture, to find affordable housing. Of course, those houses are not offering all the amenities of wheeler. But that is probably why they are concerned about gentrification and displacement. Again, if you are touting high-end amenities, you aren't concerned with providing affordable housing. WHICH IS FINE. Just don't say you are going to do it if you aren't.

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Median annual wage in LA - $62,474
Median annual wage in OKC - $47,004
Average annual wage in LA - $70,586
Average annual wage in OKC - $26,275

Just a quick google search found these, not sure how old or accurate they are, but the massive discrepancy between the average wages completely explain why $370K is easily more affordable in LA than OKC - get a clue, PP... Anybody in any major city would laugh at how affordable most homes are here in OKC (our $200K-ish house would sell for easily 2-3 times that in Chicago suburbs, probably 4-5 times that in Chicago proper, and probably easily the same multipliers would apply in any major city).
Well, firstly, my LA comment was obviously tongue in cheek. For those that didn’t get it you do now or either you want to use that to distract from the fact that given proper perspective these homes are affordable.

Comparing to Chicago is a not realistic. Yes you can find a home under 300k relatively close to downtown Chicago. Same thing with Detroit. Oh, make sure your realtor fills you in that you now purchased a home in one the highest crime zones in the United States. How many murders and shootings did Chicago have last weekend?

As I said, find me a new build home in a lively district right next to downtown of a major metro area for under 250k.

F or really even close to downtown.
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how is it not close to down town? ?

This is a healthy discussion about Wheeler District, though I don’t understand Dans point, taking anything from social media doesn’t make sense. Those are the same kind of people whining about traffic and lack of investment into the roads, opposing walkable, dense developments like Spring Creek Expansion in favor of cookie cutter strip malls all over the place, and then getting mad when a road is widened because of the construction needed and inconvenience posed. People are very weird.

Those are the same kind of people whining about traffic and lack of investment into the roads, opposing walkable, dense developments like Spring Creek Expansion in favor of cookie cutter strip malls all over the place, and then getting mad when a road is widened because of the construction needed and inconvenience posed.

It's not necessarily the same people complaining about all those things.

how is it not close to down town? ?

On the edge of that circle that runs through wheeler is 23rd and Classen do you consider that downtown? I don't. I wouldn't consider the Capitol close to downtown either. Both Wheeler and the Capitol have the same connection issues. Except with wheeler you are not only separated by a highway but also a river.

It's not necessarily the same people complaining about all those things.I was referring to those making asinine comments on Facebook and not adding anything constructive to the table. Even though I think it’s silly, I can see people’s frustration regarding gentrification and use of public funds to facilitate developments like this.

I do think many here, even those that think 250k is not affordable in this instance, are jumping the gun on that aspect as this development is just getting started. I would love to see micro units built here in some places which could really offer an affordable alternative and give disadvantaged singles an opportunity to live here.

On the edge of that circle that runs through wheeler is 23rd and Classen do you consider that downtown? I don't. I wouldn't consider the Capitol close to downtown either. Both Wheeler and the Capitol have the same connection issues. Except with wheeler you are not only separated by a highway but also a river.
23rd and Classen is a district adjacent to downtown. That is very close to downtown.

You raise good points about connectivity but Western will eventually get cycling lanes and a pedestrian bridge will become a reality on a converted former rail bridge right next to this development. Not to mention the city is increasing its investment in rail and bus alternatives. That all comes in time. At this point it doesn’t really seem to be much a factor.

just to add to "affordability" discussion, don't forget that there is also a $140/month ($1680/year) hoa fee to pay on top of everything else.

overall, i like wheeler and think it's going to be a net positive for the city, but i'd hardly call what is currently there "affordable." it may represent good value for the money based on finishes, location, and amenities but there are certainly better options in the city for budget conscious consumers.

I would think a budget conscious consumer wouldn’t be looking for a brand new detached house in a mixed use master planned development right next to downtown but that’s just me. Those HOA fees are a tad high though.

just to add to "affordability" discussion, don't forget that there is also a $140/month ($1680/year) hoa fee to pay on top of everything else.

Damn! I thought my $100/mo was steep.

Are we sure HOA doesn't vary with house/lot size?

Are we sure HOA doesn't vary with house/lot size?

i'm not sure of that at all... it's been hard for me to find any hoa pricing information. i can't find anything on the wheeler site and most of the listings do not include it. the one listing i could find is for a $575k, 2375sf home on pioneer whose quotes hoa dues are $142/mo. most of the listings on zillow say "n/a" under hoa but i suspect that is not accurate.

here is the listing: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1816-Pioneer-St-Oklahoma-City-OK-73108/2081723597_zpid/

edit: it must be variable. just saw this 1924sf listing and it is quoted at $105/mo. it's entirely possible that the ~700sf homes have significantly lower (or no) hoa fees.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1716-Pioneer-St-Oklahoma-City-OK-73108/2081723592_zpid/

Frankly, I don't give a **** what houses sell for in LA. I don't live in LA. I don't have the same compensation as people who live in LA. Home prices are highly regional so bringing up any other place is irrelevant unless the demographics are very similar. And this development is not downtown or really even close to downtown. It is connected in no way. Just look at the neighborhoods in this picture, to find affordable housing. Of course, those houses are not offering all the amenities of wheeler. But that is probably why they are concerned about gentrification and displacement. Again, if you are touting high-end amenities, you aren't concerned with providing affordable housing. WHICH IS FINE. Just don't say you are going to do it if you aren't.

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Is there really any truly affordable options in the neighborhoods in this shown radius? I did a quick search (the exact radius you use and my hand drawn attempt doesnt match up perfectly) and there are only 5 houses currently coming up in this radius under 225k and they are either tear downs or need massive remodels. It's really tough to get inside this radius for under 250k now.

Here (https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/house_type/?searchQueryState=%7B%22usersSearchTerm%22%3A%22Ok lahoma%20City%2C%20OK%22%2C%22mapBounds%22%3A%7B%2 2west%22%3A-97.60652964014443%2C%22east%22%3A-97.43471221310901%2C%22south%22%3A35.4202113531060 55%2C%22north%22%3A35.513377573071345%7D%2C%22isMa pVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22filterState%22%3A%7B%22for e%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22cmsn%22%3A%7 B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22auc%22%3A%7B%22value% 22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22pmf%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse %7D%2C%22pf%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22pr ice%22%3A%7B%22max%22%3A225000%7D%2C%22mp%22%3A%7B %22max%22%3A758%7D%2C%22land%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3 Afalse%7D%2C%22mf%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2 C%22apa%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22tow%22 %3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22con%22%3A%7B%22v alue%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22manu%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3 Afalse%7D%7D%2C%22isListVisible%22%3Afalse%2C%22ma pZoom%22%3A13%2C%22customRegionId%22%3A%220da3c5f6 50X1-CRft0djnum2wse_12flrq%22%2C%22pagination%22%3A%7B% 7D%7D)

Note: i did filter for houses only. There are 4 condos in Sycamore Square and 1 APT at Maywood Lofts that would also fall under the $225,000 price

That radius includes all of CTP so yes I can. I found 7 in CTP alone under 250.

That radius includes all of CTP so yes I can. I found 7 in CTP alone under 250.

7 total properties under 250k.
1 Vacant lot
2 teardowns (lot only value)
1 needs a massive remodel.

There are just 3 move in ready homes in all of C10P that you can get for under 250k and the cheapest is $239,999 (for < 1,300sqft).

Unless you are going to spend 115k on the vacant lot and pitch a tent, not a lot of affordable options in C10P at the moment.

I would assume the more affordable developments will happen as density increases as they develop toward the Ferris Wheel. I would assume sometime within the next 4-6 years they will start construction on some denser builds and make flats. I think the flats will be the 1st time you have any shot at getting under $200/square foot (in 2020 dollars).

Just to be sure, I think it's pretty reasonable to say that affordable in OKC is definitely under $200k, and probably under $180k.

Are we sure HOA doesn't vary with house/lot size?

I am 100% sure that it does vary with lot size.

I am 100% sure that it does vary with lot size.
do you know the minimum hoa fee? do the smallest lots have no hoa fee at all?

according to the MLS the cheapest HOA fee is $771/ year. That is for the 789 sqft home.

The most expensive is $1800/year.

do you know the minimum hoa fee? do the smallest lots have no hoa fee at all?

Yes. It’s about $65/mo for the smaller lots. Also keep in mind that part of the HOA fee is “refunded” to the owner in the form of 1:1 “Wheeler Bucks” that can be spent at the local shops/restaurants. As of this moment that’s only Terminal Commons. Soon, it will include the Big Friendly Brewery and next year the restaurants opening in the new building (one of which is already drawing a ton of excitement among residents, but I’m not sure if it’s public info yet). Then the shop homes which will be finished early next year may have some participating shops that accept them.

^

I believe you are referring to Nonesuch moving to the Wheeler District, as I know that is the plan.

according to the MLS the cheapest HOA fee is $771/ year. That is for the 789 sqft home.

The most expensive is $1800/year.


Yes. It’s about $65/mo for the smaller lots. Also keep in mind that part of the HOA fee is “refunded” to the owner in the form of 1:1 “Wheeler Bucks” that can be spent at the local shops/restaurants. As of this moment that’s only Terminal Commons. Soon, it will include the Big Friendly Brewery and next year the restaurants opening in the new building (one of which is already drawing a ton of excitement among residents, but I’m not sure if it’s public info yet). Then the shop homes which will be finished early next year may have some participating shops that accept them.

thanks for the info! that definitely softens the 'sting' of the hoa costs regarding credit at local shops/restaurants... i do wonder, though, if purchasing alcohol (i.e. big friendly brewery) with such credits is legal.

... i do wonder, though, if purchasing alcohol (i.e. big friendly brewery) with such credits is legal.

I'd guess not, since Walgreens Balance Rewards don't let you redeem points for it (AFAIK), and KeepItLocal and OKCityCard perks (10% off, 2-for-1, etc.) also don't apply to alcohol.

thanks for the info! that definitely softens the 'sting' of the hoa costs regarding credit at local shops/restaurants... i do wonder, though, if purchasing alcohol (i.e. big friendly brewery) with such credits is legal.

Good question, Martin. I could be wrong about the ability to use them at BFB. I’ll try to confirm one way or the other.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler101120a.jpg

looks like a little boom town.

https://www.wheelerdistrict.com/home/928-sw-17th-200-2/

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Just saw Wheeler posted four condos going for $350~373 per sqft.

I wish Wheeler had an interactive map that showed where each development is, what is for sale, and what is soon to come all visualized since it is a big development it would help.

https://www.wheelerdistrict.com/home/928-sw-17th-200-2/

16518

Just saw Wheeler posted four condos going for $350~373 per sqft.

Here we go...

I wish Wheeler had an interactive map that showed where each development is, what is for sale, and what is soon to come all visualized since it is a big development it would help.
That’s a great idea!

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler101120a.jpg
Great photo Pete with the different view/perspective. Really shows the density and walkability of the district.

https://www.wheelerdistrict.com/home/928-sw-17th-200-2/

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Just saw Wheeler posted four condos going for $350~373 per sqft.

These look awesome. I'm sure they will sell well just like the rest of Wheeler.

Any plans to bring some mature trees into the district as they get further along with construction, or is this place just going to be absolutely roasting for three months per year over the next few decades?

Any plans to bring some mature trees into the district as they get further along with construction, or is this place just going to be absolutely roasting for three months per year over the next few decades?

This is being built on an old runway and it already has more tree cover than almost any new suburban housing addition that has sprung up in the last 25 years. These guys have a large tree budget

Want a cheap house near downtown? Where were you a few years ago when Classen 10 Penn was cheap? Oh yeah, it was too "dangerous". Your idea of close to downtown may differ from mine. Not sure what the obsession of being in downtown is anyway...

Considering this was a vacant land parcel for 10 years, I think it looks pretty damn good!

This is being built on an old runway and it already has more tree cover than almost any new suburban housing addition that has sprung up in the last 25 years. These guys have a large tree budget

I don't think this really answers the question. You can have a $100,000 budget or a $100,000,000 but if you only plant young trees, it's going to take decades for those to grow to a size that really contributes in a major way to quality of life.

But it is like that in every new development.
I drove for the first the extension of the Turnpike from the airport to south Yukon and you can see all these stacked new neighborhood without a tree popping up.

Just like Soonerinfiniti says, it not a project for everybody taste but at least it is ambitious and intriguing.

I don't think this really answers the question. You can have a $100,000 budget or a $100,000,000 but if you only plant young trees, it's going to take decades for those to grow to a size that really contributes in a major way to quality of life.

This is true for every new housing addition. Most suburban developers plant two Bradford pears next to the entrance sign of the new addition and call it good and yet i've never heard anyone worry about a new housing addition in Deer Creek "baking" for 3 months a year. This is probably the only new addition built from scratch that removed zero mature trees from the existing property (It was a runway.)

Just odd that this gets called out for not having enough trees to impact quality of life:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4475618,-97.5324281,3a,75y,259.13h,86t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMqSSPXeFA652XJaJLKViK8Pf QVDiZwD25THeOX!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleu sercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMqSSPXeFA652XJaJLKViK8P fQVDiZwD25THeOX%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya326.00662-ro0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352

But this is the norm across the metro.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6051585,-97.73919,3a,60y,14.74h,78.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5FoVB8dUDmE95KEp1grW7w!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656

No new development has mature trees. Why call out the only development who has actually made an effort to plant them?

FWIW, I think Wheeler is a good development, was just genuinely curious about the trees because there didn't appear to be many in the last drone shot that Pete posted. The street view that GoGators posted looks much better and pretty much answers my question, it seems like they are definitely making an effort to plant trees that should grow to be fairly large in a relatively short timeframe.

One of the reasons it looks so barren is that there is no room for trees on any of the lots.

All the trees are along the streets and in common areas.

That's a big difference when compared to a typical suburban neighborhood.

It looks like the fake town from the Truman Show.

This is true for every new housing addition. Most suburban developers plant two Bradford pears next to the entrance sign of the new addition and call it good and yet i've never heard anyone worry about a new housing addition in Deer Creek "baking" for 3 months a year. This is probably the only new addition built from scratch that removed zero mature trees from the existing property (It was a runway.)

Just odd that this gets called out for not having enough trees to impact quality of life:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4475618,-97.5324281,3a,75y,259.13h,86t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipMqSSPXeFA652XJaJLKViK8Pf QVDiZwD25THeOX!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleu sercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMqSSPXeFA652XJaJLKViK8P fQVDiZwD25THeOX%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya326.00662-ro0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352

But this is the norm across the metro.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.6051585,-97.73919,3a,60y,14.74h,78.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5FoVB8dUDmE95KEp1grW7w!2e0!7i1 3312!8i6656

No new development has mature trees. Why call out the only development who has actually made an effort to plant them?

Nobody expects/cares about pedestrian activity in new subdivisions around OKC, so mature trees or no trees, it really makes no difference.

Wheeler is not your average sub-division and shouldn't be reviewed in the same manner. Pedestrian activity should be high and therefore trees far more beneficial. The general lack of a yard also means that public spaces are substantially more important/utilized.

I never thought of it myself, but it was a great point to be brought to the table. I'd think residents more than anyone would want the developers to try and bring in some trees that have been aged a decade already so that they can enjoy the benefits of nice mature trees within a much shorter timeframe.

It looks like the fake town from the Truman Show.

If I remember right, it was actually referenced by the developers, right? Or did i make that up?

Seaside, Florida is a real town, not fake: https://www.fodors.com/world/north-america/usa/florida/the-panhandle/experiences/news/this-florida-town-is-the-real-life-truman-show

If I remember right, it was actually referenced by the developers, right? Or did i make that up?

Seaside, Florida is a real town, not fake: https://www.fodors.com/world/north-america/usa/florida/the-panhandle/experiences/news/this-florida-town-is-the-real-life-truman-show

The Truman Show was filmed at Seaside. DPZ planning firm designed Seaside and Carlton Landing. Dover Kohl designed Wheeler, but obviously very similar New Urbanist principles. Charming, but almost too perfect for some to the point of being creepy.