https://kfor.com/2019/08/27/caught-on-camera-fight-at-okc-middle-school-injures-teacher/

This was posted in the OKC Public School thread, but thought it might be useful to discuss here as well because of the charter school discussion. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for the Pathway to Greatness or sending your kids to OKC Public Schools.

I think you need to put this incident into the context of how many schools and how many students in the district do not experience this. There are assaults in every city and town, yet we go to those places. You can't point a finger at an isolated incident to justify why a charter school needs to be created.

It would appear ground has been broken for The Big Friendly Brewery. Also several more homes have started construction since the last drone photo along with breaking ground on another row of homes west of the main Runway Boulevard. Interior of the Terminal Building looks close to finished, maybe only a few months from opening.

Liar. There is no sex shop. Nearest one is on May and 30th or so, Christy's Toy Box.

Lotta young, experimenting adults in Bricktown, Deep Duece and Midtown. A think a Adult Novelties Store would kill it in DD.

To be fair, Amazon will have one day shipping soon.

I think you need to put this incident into the context of how many schools and how many students in the district do not experience this. There are assaults in every city and town, yet we go to those places. You can't point a finger at an isolated incident to justify why a charter school needs to be created.

Yes, one instance of rioting middle schoolers in the grand scheme is just an isolated incident and may not be enough to justify building a charter school. But it definitely feeds into the idea that the schools are not a viable option for some parents to send their kids. I wonder how many charter schools experience the kind of rioting and violence represented in that video.

It's surprising to me that you think an incident of this kind perpetrated by kids in a school is somehow understandable/defensible because of its isolated nature and the generalized violence we have out in the world. Would you justify occasional instances of gun violence in schools using your same logic? Putting those into context, most students/schools don't experience them.

I think you need to put this incident into the context of how many schools and how many students in the district do not experience this. There are assaults in every city and town, yet we go to those places. You can't point a finger at an isolated incident to justify why a charter school needs to be created.

It wouldn't feel very isolated if that was your kid at the bottom of the pile or if this was your neighborhood's school.

It wouldn't feel very isolated if that was your kid at the bottom of the pile or if this was your neighborhood's school.

I bet the teachers involved/injured feel the same way.

One-off incidents are fundamentally meaningless for establishing whether an environment is safe though, except of course for the very important issue of perception.

On the other hand if you can point to a pattern of similar incidents, it because much more apparent that the school system has a systematic problem that needs to be fixed.

According to a news station this morning, there was a consolidation into JM middle school and it has now pitted rival gangs at JM Middle school. So there you go, they said they have had an issue with the gangs about every day since school opened.

According to a news station this morning, there was a consolidation into JM middle school and it has now pitted rival gangs at JM Middle school. So there you go, they said they have had an issue with the gangs about every day since school opened.

Not sure about "rival gangs," but kids from different neighborhoods. They closed Centennial HS, which was located in the middle of nowhere at 131st and Kelly. The students (maybe a little more than 100) were merged into John Marshall Middle School. One thing which was certainly overlooked in P2G was the fact that different parts of town have rivalries with others. That said, add a couple of resource officers for a bit and things will be fine.

The thing about charter schools is that they'll pop up where demand exists. Funny enough, Harding Charter Prep, formerly at 31st and Shartel has taken over the Centennial/Eisenhower building and it is probably now serving more students than it has in a very long time.

I don't believe charters are a panacea for this sort of thing. Charters, on the whole, don't perform any better than traditional public schools. True, some do excel, but for every A+ charter, there are D and F charters as well. Look at the school voucher situation in Louisiana. I would definitely not envy them. So many school dollars are going to churches which don't teach much of anything at all.

Yes, one instance of rioting middle schoolers in the grand scheme is just an isolated incident and may not be enough to justify building a charter school. But it definitely feeds into the idea that the schools are not a viable option for some parents to send their kids. I wonder how many charter schools experience the kind of rioting and violence represented in that video.

It's surprising to me that you think an incident of this kind perpetrated by kids in a school is somehow understandable/defensible because of its isolated nature and the generalized violence we have out in the world. Would you justify occasional instances of gun violence in schools using your same logic? Putting those into context, most students/schools don't experience them.

Many of the problems in OKC public schools are because of the choices of the people with means in the OKC community. Years of White flight and parental pushes for re-segregation (call it whatever euphemism you want, "neighborhood schools," "anti-busing," "choice") once the courts turned their backs on Brown v Board have left OKC like many urban school systems with apartheid schools with high concentrations of poverty. And there have been a lot of admirable educators and students who attend these schools and succeed and do great work, but the systemic disadvantages are severe. You have two choices: 1. Look for a negative news story and keep White flighting and turning your back on the children in OKC Public Schools; 2. Or, actually be part of a community that re-dedicates itself to the education of all children. A huge majority of charter schools are either absurd racist models of schools where kids in poverty learn how to be yelled at (see KIPP), exploitative and ineffective schools (see Epic) or just wealthy people trying to create the school they want without addressing systemic issues (see John Rex). Charter schools are not the answer. It's usually a way to avoid answering to the problems in the communities most marginalized by city, state, and federal policies.

So basically you are mad at people with "means" wanting the best education for their children? Why do you get so worked up about it? All around the country they have been throwing money for generations at public schools and nothing has really changed. If a parent wants to try something else you can't be upset at that because it doesn't fit your redemption narrative. That's their right if they don't want to stick around to see if re-dedication works or not.

So basically you are mad at people with "means" wanting the best education for their children? Why do you get so worked up about it? All around the country they have been throwing money for generations at public schools and nothing has really changed. If a parent wants to try something else you can't be upset at that because it doesn't fit your redemption narrative. That's their right if they don't want to stick around to see if re-dedication works or not.
I agree. Private schools are best and no way would I send my kids(when I have them) to public school. I went to public school but thankfully my little brother is in a private school. From what I see, they offer a superior education in almost every way.

So basically you are mad at people with "means" wanting the best education for their children? Why do you get so worked up about it? All around the country they have been throwing money for generations at public schools and nothing has really changed. If a parent wants to try something else you can't be upset at that because it doesn't fit your redemption narrative. That's their right if they don't want to stick around to see if re-dedication works or not.

I simply believe the courts should not allow parents to segregate. The Brown decision should be enforced. It's really simple. Integration was the most successful educational reform in US educational history. It worked really well to achieve its goals, but White parents have *always* fought against integration. Integrated schools are actually needed if people want to pretend the US has any semblance of meritocracy (which it doesn't... the US ranks well down the list on social mobility globally). So, yes, actually a lot changed with the reform of school integration. I'm happy to recommend some books and studies if you'd like to learn more.

I am not sure how to address the we've "been throwing money for generations" comment as I don't either know what you're talking about. Won't you want to "throw money" at whatever school you send your children to or do you want their school underfunded? There's something more problematic underneath your comment about who deserves an education because I doubt you believe in sending your children to underfunded schools. So, whose children are we talking about that don't deserve school funding... or as your say it, having "money thrown at them"?

I understand that these problems are systemic and it's hard for parents to figure out. Parents want whats best for their children. But should we really have an educational system where those with social capital and money get a quality education in well funded schools with other wealthy kids and students whose parents have less means attend apartheid, segregated schools with less funding. I guess I just believe in equality.

I agree. Private schools are best and no way would I send my kids(when I have them) to public school. I went to public school but thankfully my little brother is in a private school. From what I see, they offer a superior education in almost every way.

Nope. There is little evidence to suggest this is true at all. What's true is private schools have more wealth and more wealthy schools do better in various metrics. Data shows that the distinction is almost always socioeconomic, not public vs private. Show me a private school with high concentrations of poverty and I'll show you a private school with same challenges as any underfunded, segregated public school. There's a reason parents move to suburban school districts to get their kids into those public schools.

I taught at Westmoore High School for 5 years and we ran circles around most private schools. We offered way more classes with far more academic, social, and atheletic opportunities than any private school in the state.

All I know is my personal experience here. I’m not disputing the data which I agree with you on. Spending some time seeing a private school and I wish I would have chosen that over Edmond North. It was much better in Dallas when I was in private and than I went to park hill intermediate(public) and I missed my other school. The only good thing about public school was it was around the corner from where I lived and I would walk home with my friends vs. being picked up by my stepmother.

Sure Beverly Hills or Calabasas High schools have kids driving Ferrari’s for their first cars yet even the wealthier parents will send their kids to a better school which is private costing insane amounts of money(over 100k or more for four years).

Really appreciate the discussion on education in America, but can we move that conversation to an education thread? When I come to this particular thread I'm interested to see what's up with Wheeler District development.

Really appreciate the discussion on education in America, but can we move that conversation to an education thread? When I come to this particular thread I'm interested to see what's up with Wheeler District development.

Yes, sorry for being off topic. I'm happy to discuss with others in a different thread. :)

Last comment on education here ....

"Moore (ORIGINAL!!) High School is better ! :Smiley122

Not sure if we should start a new RideShare/CarShare thread, but I did want to post the response I got from Car2Go about their interest in OKC:




car2go Member Services <memberservicesna@car2go.com (http://memberservicesna@car2go.com)>

Hi,

Thank you for contacting car2go!


We are constantly expanding and looking to operate in different cities all over the world. We appreciate your feedback and interest in bringing car2go to your city! We encourage you to contact your local government about car2go becoming a mobility provider in your area.

We love to share our good news, so any updates on new locations will be posted on our social media pages. Stay tuned for future updates on our growth!



If you have any additional questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to let me know.

Vanessa

Was my solution helpful? We'd love to hear your feedback! Share your experience with us by taking part in our survey (http://car2go.mcxplatform.de/cgi-bin/qwebcorporate.dll?idx=EV39PJ&country=USA&lg=English&activityID=7243211).

T 1 877 488 4224
memberservicesNA@car2go.com
www.car2go.com (http://www.car2go.com/)


CAR2GO – PROUD TO SHARE
Disclaimer:
This e-mail may contain confidential information. If you are not the addressee you are not authorized to make use of the information contained in this e-mail. Please inform us immediately that you have received it by mistake.



Looks like they just need an introduction to city leadership, then OKC could have significant carshare options available for downtown and inner city neighbourhoods beneficial for those who are kicking-the-car but need one every now and then.

Other carshare that I am aware of (some are here in Seattle):

getaround (https://www.getaround.com/)
TURO (https://turo.com)
Zipcar (https://www.zipcar.com/)
justshareit (https://www.justshareit.com/)

Grab (https://www.grab.com/my/transport/car/) more of an upscale rideshare

Recommend forwarding that response you got to ward6 and ward7@okc.gov. I know you're not local, but I think those ladies would be interested in taking that up.

done

New photos from the fitzsimmonsarchitects Instagram page showing near completion of the terminal building and restaurant along with dirt moving for the Big Friendly Brewery. You can also see two more of the premium corner home lots breaking ground along with another set of three solo/rolo style floor plans.

https://i.imgur.com/7QPTqxg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/39rHPD5.jpg

original link
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2Fa77uhgHN/?igshid=rx3kj2c9n2ub

Not sure how to post photos directly from mobile

We used to have a local company called TimeCar, but they went out of business. I _thought_ ZipCar was in Norman. Def wish they'd come to DOKC. I'd be cool with Car2Go as well.

Car2Go won't be coming here for a LONG time, if ever. They are leaving bigger, more dense, urban cities across the nation.

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/09/27/car2go-leaving-denver/

well that sucks, for us and the market in general

These are from Fitzsimmons Architects:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler100419a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler100419b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler100419c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler100419d.jpg

ah, man... 'terminal commons' was going to be the name of my retirement community project.

I just look at those pics and I can already feel uncomfortable from the terrible echoing loudness.

I just look at those pics and I can already feel uncomfortable from the terrible echoing loudness.

Bingo. There should be acoustic codes in place to mitigate this ongoing trend in budget interiors.

Looks like they have some insulation / acoustic material above the trusses.

ah, man... 'terminal commons' was going to be the name of my retirement community project.

dang you... i laughed so hard i spit out my coffee....

Wheeler District Developments...

http://digital.newsok.com/Olive/ODN/Oklahoman/get/DOK-2019-11-05/image.ashx?kind=block&href=DOK%2F2019%2F11%2F05&id=Pc0160200&ext=.jpg&ts=20191105095408
Beginning construction of The Big Friendly Brewery & Taproom can be seen between the former Downtown Airpark terminal and the growing Wheeler neighborhood. A three-story office and retail building is planned across the street from the terminal and brewery. [DAVE MORRIS/THE OKLAHOMAN]

A three-story office building with ground floor retail is planned to be the next addition to Wheeler, the master-planned, mixed use development emerging along the south shore of the Oklahoma River.

Since construction started almost a year ago, 40 homes have been built on the site of the former Downtown Airpark at 1701 S Western Ave. The master-planned community started with a series of charrettes, or open planning sessions, aimed at drawing public input into the overall design.

http://digital.newsok.com/Olive/ODN/Oklahoman/get/DOK-2019-11-05/image.ashx?kind=block&href=DOK%2F2019%2F11%2F05&id=Pc0160100&ext=.jpg&ts=20191105095408
A three-story office and retail building, shown in this rendering, is set to be constructed at Wheeler in early 2020. [ALLFORD HALL MONAGHAN MORRIS RENDERING]

Above pics, Oklahoman, November 5 2019

Meanwhile, renovations are wrapping up on the 1947 Art Deco air terminal that is set to open as an all-day cafe. Construction has begun next door on the Big Friendly Brewery & Taproom. The offices and retail will be built across the street from the cafe and brewery.

--Steve Lackmeyer, Oklahoman, November 5, 2015

Full story link, Oklahoman: http://digital.newsok.com/Olive/ODN/Oklahoman/default.aspx

Two levels of office above 1 level of retail/restaurant space directly south of the Terminal building and the Big Friendly Brewery.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler110519a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler110519e.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler110519b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler110519c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler110519d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler110519f.jpg

When you collect all the retail and office space in a single area surrounded by residential, that's not mixed used.

You have just created zoning.

There will be more commercial property throughout the development; this is just the start.

The windows are amazing.

That is wild. Really making use of the airport theming.

That is wild. Really making use of the airport theming.

Certainly agree with your observation David, it matches what could be a complementary theme with the area close to the Boardman building also in the area.

http://www.boardmaninc.com/images/gallery/IMG_5628.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wheeler110519b.jpg

My goodness AHMM keeps knocking it out of the park.

My goodness AHMM keeps knocking it out of the park.

They are just so good and have really raised the bar in OKC.

This ^^^

I'll be the odd man out. Do not like the design at all and certainly think the designers missed the mark. Looks like an oversized cheap prefab quonset hut.

https://www.steelmasterusa.com/quonset-huts/

^

Thanks for breaking up the OKCTalk AHMM love-in!

I'll be the odd man out. Do not like the design at all and certainly think the designers missed the mark. Looks like an oversized cheap prefab quonset hut.

https://www.steelmasterusa.com/quonset-huts/
You're not alone. I don't care for it either. Looks like a fancy shed to me.

You're not alone. I don't care for it either. Looks like a fancy shed to me.

It's for Sheryl.

I like the design of the building (Modern Farmhouse meets Apocalypse Now), but I happen to think AHMM is wildly overrated.

It's for Sheryl.

Lol. When I was looking for a link to post...one of the sites actually advertises them for a she shed.

It's for Sheryl.
HA! Don't burn it down!

I personally think AHMM has done a phenomenal job in OKC. This building makes sense to me in context of the site. The barrel vault calls back to the history of it being an airfield, its using metal siding which fits in with all the other existing materials on the site, etc. This building is going to be beautiful.

Looks ugly as hell to me.

We hate when the city doesn't pay homage to its past. This building does just that, and now we are complaining.

Architecture is always polarizing; especially anything that has ambition.

But I'd much, much rather have buildings that take a little risk and are interesting because we have so little good architecture in this town.

We need a lot more of AHMM's work in OKC and a lot less of this, which is unfortunately what many of our locals default to and love to build (all downtown):
15711
15712
15713

I say keep 'em coming, AHMM.

We need a lot more of AHMM's work in OKC and a lot less of this in, which is unfortunately what many of our locals default to and love to build (all downtown):
15711
15712
15713

I say keep 'em coming, AHMM.
While I don’t love this particular AHHM project, I love their other works and wholeheartedly agree with this post.

That Maywood project is especially heinous.

I keep expecting Gomer Pyle to be walking out of this building with a big smile on his face while Sergeant Carter yelling at him.

Great job of tying in the round top hangar style. Perfect fit for the area.

my opinion plus $1 will buy me a cup of coffee... but i personally like the design.

my opinion plus $1 will buy me a cup of coffee... but i personally like the design.

Man... Life is too short to be drinking $1 coffee. ;)

I'll be the odd man out. Do not like the design at all and certainly think the designers missed the mark. Looks like an oversized cheap prefab quonset hut.

https://www.steelmasterusa.com/quonset-huts/

Think that looks much more similar to the AEP Fitness Center (now OKC Ballet) that AHMM also designed. I really like this project and think it ties into surrounding buildings and the past.

Think that looks much more similar to the AEP Fitness Center

Now *that* is a fancy shed!