True, but would you want a condo in this area? Would you want to walk around the surrounding neighborhoods in the evening, or even during the day? What type of people are they marketing these towards, families, young professionals, retirees?

Have you seen what some of the areas near midtown are like or what they used to be like? You certainly wouldn't have wanted to walk around there after dark. Some people seem to think that anything south of the river should just be written off as unliveable.

Again, I imagine the same was uttered over a beer to the first 2 or 13 folks who told friends they were of a mind to move to Deep Deuce. Probably someone looked at the developers a bit odd when the decision was made to put in a Red Prime or to upgrade those rather dumpy properties on E 9th into something useful.

Another example is looking at the Paseo District

While I don't love Bass Pro, shouldn't we table that as an option until we get closer in mixed use development? I'd like to see the sheet metal site developed first, and we're not even there yet.

Meinders isn't going to develop that for a long time, if ever. He's not a visionary that seems to act. Heck, he's had this property since at least 2003. My assumption is when east Bricktown finally starts filling in, he'll look for a sweet flip, if those exist anymore. He was supposively hoping to bank of the Hill's success, and we knew that was a joke before it was even awarded. Look at my post from back in 2004

http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/8571-there-any-condo-developments-downtown-okc.html


metro
VIP Member Join Date: Nov 2004
Total Posts: 12,628

Re: Are there any condo developments in downtown OKC?

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Patrick, the Steel Yard won't start until "The Hill at Bricktown" although in Deep Deuce in reality, is finished. I personally have talked with the owner and he wants to tie his development in with that somehow and have some sort of shared courtyard area and possible retail area. I'm not counting on this development any time soon although I hope I'm proven wrong due to lucrative market conditions.




I just can't see this development happening like what is proposed. The area around it is very rundown and it's still a couple miles from downtown. Go over there sometime and drive through the neighborhoods around the airpark and ask yourself if you would want to live there.

Actually a local respect architect, Brian Fitzsimmons recently started a modern, affordable neighborhood over there http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/18022-fitzsimmons-sets-sights-south-okc-neighborhood-draws-up-plan.html, not to mention that Humphreys probably wont' start working on this project for 4-5 years, and will take several years to complete, so by then it WILL be a more desirable place. Build it and they will come mentality usually works if done right, and Humphreys has a good track record.

Good, pleaseeeeeeeeee move Bass Pro out of downtown, by all means. Move it to Memorial Rd. or I-35 somewhere.
I-40 & MacArthur, maybe replacing Bigger Lots, now that Garden Ridge is a shadow of its former self.


I just can't see this development happening like what is proposed. The area around it is very rundown and it's still a couple miles from downtown. Go over there sometime and drive through the neighborhoods around the airpark and ask yourself if you would want to live there.
Many people said the same things about the Stapleton Airport redevelopment in Denver, now those neighborhoods are some of the hottest properties in the Denver area.

BG918, it seems as if a lot of people have spoken on this already.
But yes, it's true - the conditions you set up would also have prohibited development of MidTown, Deep Deuce, Automobile Alley, and now Film Row.

I think this site would be perfect for some type of amphitheater

Exactly the thought I had in mind, man I wish I had money to develop land for that...

Exactly the thought I had in mind, man I wish I had money to develop land for that...

See, I just wish the Humphreys' did. lol

Again, I imagine the same was uttered over a beer to the first 2 or 13 folks who told friends they were of a mind to move to Deep Deuce. Probably someone looked at the developers a bit odd when the decision was made to put in a Red Prime or to upgrade those rather dumpy properties on E 9th into something useful.

Another example is looking at the Paseo District

I think I will pass on the Paseo District... Still too rough for my taste...

puppet stay in the mall..... at least mall security can come running....

I think I will pass on the Paseo District... Still too rough for my taste...

I believe when the ex-governor of the State of Oklahoma was accosted by a gunman in the driveway of his home recently, that was in Quail Creek. I don't remember hearing about anything quite like that in the Paseo. Maybe Quail Creek is the area that should be too rough for your tastes.

Not to mention it was George Nigh, who is like the nicest old man ever. How could anyone ever do that to him?

I think I remember reading that it didn't appear that the attacker even knew who he was attacking. He just saw an old man that was an easy target.

FWIW, my own little spidey sense will kick up in a mall setting way more often than it will in BT, Paseo, and depending on the mall, more often in some malls than numerous other places which lots of folks would consider far too sketchy to even drive within a few blocks of the place.

To each their own from their own experiences I suppose.

Sharing a vision: Developer to present plans for riverfront
By Brianna Bailey
Journal Record
Oklahoma City reporter - Contact 405-278-2847
Posted: 07:32 PM Tuesday, November 30, 2010

OKLAHOMA CITY – There’s a lot of work that needs to be done to facilitate development along the Oklahoma River, Developer Grant Humphreys said.

“One of big challenges downtown and along the riverfront is infrastructure that is either nonexistent or antiquated and needs to be replaced and how might the city approach that infrastructure,” he said.

Humphreys will give a group of riverfront stakeholders an update on Wednesday on his Waterfront development planned for the site of the old Downtown Airpark at a meeting facilitated by the Oklahoma Riverfront Development Authority.

Humphreys hopes to facilitate a dialogue between other groups that have a vested interest in the future of the Oklahoma River.

“What we are looking to do is not just cast a vision for what our waterfront project should look like, but talking about a shared vision for the Oklahoma River and discussing with stakeholders a possible framework for an action plan that would help the river reach its full potential,” Humphreys said.

The riverfront stakeholders group includes representatives of the Oklahoma City Boathouse Foundation, the American Indian Cultural Center & Museum, Devon Energy, and the Stockyards City area, which all have an interest in development along the river, said Pat Downes, director of development for the Riverfront Development Authority. The stakeholders have been meeting regularly each quarter to communicate about various development projects along the river.

Humphrey’s 86-acre Waterfront development site on the south bank of the Oklahoma River on S. Western Avenue has just been accepted into the Oklahoma Department of Environmental Quality’s federally funded Brownfields Program, making it eligible for grant money for environmental cleanup from the Environmental Protection Agency. The area was once the site of an oil field and commercial airstrip. Humphreys said he has already spent about $300,000 of Environmental Protection Agency grant money and private funding doing preliminary environmental work on the site.

The Waterfront is planned as an “urban village” on the airpark site along S. Western Avenue south of downtown. The Waterfront development would include office and retail components as well as up to 950 housing units. The first phase of the project is slated to begin in 2012, but the entire development could take up to 10 to 12 years to build.

Humphreys and a group of investors bought the old airpark for $7.2 million in 2006, but sat on plans to develop the area when the economy took a nosedive.

“We always knew it would be a long-term play,” Humphreys said.

The more that I think, the more that I feel this is actually a bad location. Great development in a bad location. Better than a bad development in a great location, but still..mixed feelings about what he's trying to attempt.

If Humphreys is able to make this development happen and it is successful, I am saying now that this would be the greatest modern development in the history of Okc.

I also know of real estate investors that have been buying up property in the older neighborhoods surrounding this area in southside Okc. This could be a huge game changer for South Okc, Capitol Hill, and the Stockyards. Ten, Fifteen, twenty years from now this is going to be an unbelievable transformation in and around this development, and Grant Humpreys is just the man to see this through.

This is the language the well-to-do use when asking for welfare:

“One of big challenges downtown and along the riverfront is infrastructure that is either nonexistent or antiquated and needs to be replaced and how might the city approach that infrastructure,” he said.

He sure the hell isn't lying though. The roads in and around downtown and the river are crap at best.

Well he's either a visionary for that area or trying to accomplish something that's not going to be very possible.

Well he's either a visionary for that area or trying to accomplish something that's not going to be very possible.

Spartan, the same thing has been said about many other areas that are now thriving.

This is true but all of those efforts were organic. There is no way for this development to take off organically. It will have to be forced. The current economic cycle of that area will not be able to evolve to support this project, so it will have to be uprooted and replaced. There is a field there now. Surrounded by blight. On the other side of downtown from the old highway, new highway, railroad tracks, and the river.

It does seem like a stretch, and the reason I just say that is that surely Grant Humphreys could more successfully pull this project off somewhere on the north shore of the river, more connected to downtown. But then it wouldn't have any major ramifications for the southside. To be clear, the Downtown Airpark site is hardly downtown--it is practically in Capitol Hill. Sometimes you see these major mixed-use developments in weird locations because they're served by a transit line or something, but there is hardly anything like that and likely won't ever be anything like that serving this development.

This is by far the most interesting thing we have cooking.

Whereas somewhere like the Plaza District, you saw a lot of people get together and identify a niche that wasn't being catered to in OKC. There were doubters who said "yeah right, what you're trying to create just isn't OKC." These people were dedicated and rallied the community and got people from within the community to open businesses and take part in the urban renaissance. Then they formed an event calendar to keep the district constantly buzzing with people watching and make it the center of OKC's self-proclaimed bohemian world. That's organic development that you see along NW 16th.

I'm just saying this doesn't make sense because it's not how this kind of thing normally goes. This doesn't normally happen because it doesn't normally work, it simply goes against urban planning dogma. Collected (and tested) wisdom would suggest that weird locations can either be a huge hit or a huge miss. So it will be very interesting to see it play out.

Spartan - if he puts in 950 new housing units in close proximity to downtown you can bet it is going to be on some future streetcar line, as it should be. The only debate will be if it is a line to the airport or to Capitol Hill. As for organic/non-organic growth, all of it in downtown OKC since 1994 has been non-organic. If you want to see organic growth in downtown OKC checkout 1950 to 1993. Until the suburban 'drive to everywhere' mind set is changed non-organic growth is all we have. Embrace it.

This is true but all of those efforts were organic. There is no way for this development to take off organically. It will have to be forced. The current economic cycle of that area will not be able to evolve to support this project, so it will have to be uprooted and replaced. There is a field there now. Surrounded by blight. On the other side of downtown from the old highway, new highway, railroad tracks, and the river.

It does seem like a stretch, and the reason I just say that is that surely Grant Humphreys could more successfully pull this project off somewhere on the north shore of the river, more connected to downtown. But then it wouldn't have any major ramifications for the southside. To be clear, the Downtown Airpark site is hardly downtown--it is practically in Capitol Hill. Sometimes you see these major mixed-use developments in weird locations because they're served by a transit line or something, but there is hardly anything like that and likely won't ever be anything like that serving this development.

This is by far the most interesting thing we have cooking.

Whereas somewhere like the Plaza District, you saw a lot of people get together and identify a niche that wasn't being catered to in OKC. There were doubters who said "yeah right, what you're trying to create just isn't OKC." These people were dedicated and rallied the community and got people from within the community to open businesses and take part in the urban renaissance. Then they formed an event calendar to keep the district constantly buzzing with people watching and make it the center of OKC's self-proclaimed bohemian world. That's organic development that you see along NW 16th.

I'm just saying this doesn't make sense because it's not how this kind of thing normally goes. This doesn't normally happen because it doesn't normally work, it simply goes against urban planning dogma. Collected (and tested) wisdom would suggest that weird locations can either be a huge hit or a huge miss. So it will be very interesting to see it play out.

The airpark is just south of where the rail line to the airport crosses the river. I only see such a development working if there is a transit stop on a downtown-airport line. If you look at my conceptual map of a metro commuter/light rail system there is a potential stop just a half mile from this development which could be moved further east near McKinley. It would be nice to see that entire area right there along SW 15 to Penn north to the river redeveloped into a Stapleton-like development. It will be challenging for sure, and really needs the transit connection.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/OKCTRANSIT.jpg

The more that I think, the more that I feel this is actually a bad location. Great development in a bad location. Better than a bad development in a great location, but still..mixed feelings about what he's trying to attempt.

Good thing your not a player, because the real players disagree. He isn't some good ole boy, Grant has a proven track record of quality, sustainable development and real vision. Not this Mickey Mouse stuff some of our City Leaders are after.

I really hope they can see this through, but they may have reacted a little early to the potential of core-to-shore being a "30 year plan."

For reasons described by Spartan, it's difficult to imagine incremental pieces of the quality everybody expects standing alone in that part of town and doing well. Since there's nothing to build off of I imagine you really have to hit it with a huge hammer to ensure success.

Hopefully somebody is willing to invest about $250 million. Paging Larry Nichols...

I personally think the Humphrey's would have better odds with their Crown Heights plan but this would certainly be impressive if feasible.

I really hope they can see this through, but they may have reacted a little early to the potential of core-to-shore being a "30 year plan."

They said their development would take 10-12 years as well to fully develop, and that's if they start in 2012. They've mentioned, mentioned, mentioned that they realize this site isn't a short-term plan, but a more drawn-out one.

And the surrounding area may be less than pretty, but it's healthy. There's wonderful wetland areas to the east, a dynamic river and parks to the north, and some neighborhoods to the west and south that could definitely use the value increase!

They said their development would take 10-12 years as well to fully develop, and that's if they start in 2012. They've mentioned, mentioned, mentioned that they realize this site isn't a short-term plan, but a more drawn-out one.

I understand that. There are going to have to be a whole bunch of investors with a whole bunch of money in order to get it done. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't. My opinion is that it's more than a little bit unlikely.

Grant has a proven track record of quality, sustainable development and real vision.

Well I agree. I just think it weird that the Flatiron should die and fail to get off while this project is the most promising thing he's looking at right now.

Well I agree. I just think it weird that the Flatiron should die and fail to get off while this project is the most promising thing he's looking at right now.

They don't own the flatiron, but they do own the airpark.

They have a huge project going at lake eufala. They've been carrying the airpark for years, I wouldn't call it "promising."

Lackmeyer, Oklahoman, 12/3/10


Grant Humphreys said he wants to complete an initial wave of multifamily housing, offices and a hotel by the time the new alignment of Interstate 40 opens in late 2012. The master plan for “The Waterfront” also includes retail and a park anchored by a Ferris wheel Grant Humphreys bought over eBay from the Santa Monica Pier.

At a presentation this week, Humphreys said current conditions along the Oklahoma River, despite progress with MAPS and Boathouse Row, discourage developers from taking a chance along the waterfront.

“If you are looking to do something along the riverfront today, it's parceled out in smaller pieces,” Humphreys said. “People are reluctant to put their money down without knowing what's going to happen next door.”

Complete story here:
http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-riverfront-development-set-to-start/article/3520201?custom_click=lead_story_title

They have a huge project going at lake eufaula

Is that project progressing? I remember thinking that was a cool development concept for Eufaula.

I wouldnt hold my breath on the airpark or flatiron projects. These are very ambitious and expensive plans. Grant also is quite a promoter of his projects, even when its likely these projects arent close to starting.

I wouldnt hold my breath on the airpark or flatiron projects. These are very ambitious and expensive plans. Grant also is quite a promoter of his projects, even when its likely these projects arent close to starting.

This was my first thought when I saw the press release.

Is that project progressing? I remember thinking that was a cool development concept for Eufaula.

This project is progressing. Mainly civil/sitework at the moment, but it is moving foward.

This was in the middle of a story about Humphreys moving his family to Eufala to live in his new development. I will be interested to see how this works out, as I would think it would be harder to get people to buy south of the river than in places like Maywood Park. Visionary, but ahead of his time or savvy developer? We will see. I'm happy to see development occurring along the river, but wonder if the Flatiron Building might have been a better next project:

The third development, creation of a mixed retail and housing development on the site of the old Downtown Airpark along the Oklahoma River, is still set to begin later this year.

Grant Humphreys made national headlines when he purchased the Santa Monica Pier Ferris wheel to be a part of the planned 85-acre development dubbed “The Waterfront.”“We are more excited than ever about the opportunities in downtown Oklahoma City and along the Oklahoma River,” said Kirk Humphreys, who is staying in Oklahoma City and will oversee development of The Waterfront. “I look forward to seeing Oklahoma City continue to reach its potential as the I-40 realignment is completed and MAPS 3 begins to bear good fruit.”



Read more: http://newsok.com/urban-developer-grant-humphreys-moving-to-lake-eufaula-to-live-and-build-community/article/3536187#ixzz1CQnenY9J

I would love to live at the lake too.

Sold and bought by local developer Grant Humphreys. Planned mixed-use development: The Waterfront, should break ground closer to I-40 completion.

So yes, I suppose a victim of I-40 relocation...

From articles in the oklahoman indicated that it had closed due to being more than 1.5 million in debt with another couple hundred thousand coming due, they blamed it on effects on flying after 9/11. While some planes were stored their near the end, they had quit keeping fuel their.

I posted it over in the Oklahoman thread but how about we propose a trade...send Kirk to the Country and keep Grant here...

I posted it over in the Oklahoman thread but how about we propose a trade...send Kirk to the Country and keep Grant here...

I guess you thought it was a really funny comment and no one over there laughed so you thought you would post it here as well trying to get at least one person to laugh at your joke ... good try.

I think it's kinda funny. I wouldn't say that in public though, because Kirk's done a lot for OKC, despite that people have always been joking about trying to get him out of town..


From articles in the oklahoman indicated that it had closed due to being more than 1.5 million in debt with another couple hundred thousand coming due, they blamed it on effects on flying after 9/11. While some planes were stored their near the end, they had quit keeping fuel their.

Yep. This is true. Did Kirk by the land in a public auction as sort of a bankruptcy auction? I'm trying to think if that was the case.

I guess you thought it was a really funny comment and no one over there laughed so you thought you would post it here as well trying to get at least one person to laugh at your joke ... good try.

No humor intended. There are 2 things I will always give Kirk credit for: stepping in to save the Skirvin from demolition and resigning as Mayor when he decided to run for another office (think all elected persons should do that if they decide they don't really want their current job anymore). They should also pay for the cost of the special election if one is needed to fill the vacancy (out of their own pocket, no campaign funds used). IMO

No humor intended. There are 2 things I will always give Kirk credit for: stepping in to save the Skirvin from demolition and resigning as Mayor when he decided to run for another office (think all elected persons should do that if they decide they don't really want their current job anymore). They should also pay for the cost of the special election if one is needed to fill the vacancy (out of their own pocket, no campaign funds used). IMO

Larry, to that I would add as major accomplishments: (3) leadership to get the MAPS 1 sales tax extended for 6 months so that we could get the arena built; (4) MAPS 2 (for Kids).

Did Kirk by the land in a public auction as sort of a bankruptcy auction?

It went into foreclosure and Humphries had the winning bid, although it wasn't just a case of being the highest bidder.

There were parameters set by the judge (certain amount in cash, for one). The other main bidders wanted to put in an Indian casino, but that's not why they weren't selected.

I just bought 1 acre of vacant land ajoining the airpark in the far southwest corner, I hope it pays off..Zoned I-2.. anyone want to buy it..

It went into foreclosure and Humphries had the winning bid, although it wasn't just a case of being the highest bidder.

There were parameters set by the judge (certain amount in cash, for one). The other main bidders wanted to put in an Indian casino, but that's not why they weren't selected.

That's right. Wow that was an interesting debate. Funny how I think that casino would have been built by now probably. I bet post-recession most of us would take the casino jobs/tourism just like Omaha and KC did.

allegedly, the tribes can't build a casino within the OKC limits as it isn't part of any of the tribe's historical claim (the tribe that had expressed interest is headquartered up Tulsa way) but apparently that doesn't bar them from buying/operating an existing casino (Remington Park). originally the tribe had wanted to build in Bricktown but the Mayor and Council were cold on the idea. They purchased land up near Frontier City and announced plans to build a resort/hotel/casino there, with the same chilly reception (think the Chamber was in favor) but Remington Park and the Horse Racing industry lobbied against it heavily (the Oklahoma Delegation, including now Governor Fallin specifically wrote a letter to the ruling authority voicing the opposition). Think that all happened pre-recession but not sure.

Sounds about right.

I remember the renderings of the proposed casino were pretty spiffy looking, too. It was going to be right off of I-35 I believe. Back then it appeared that the Adventure District (barf) was "ripe for big development" with that, the excursion train, the Remington renovations, and the potential for a big mixed-use lifestyle center project at MLK/I-44.

I don't mean to express cynicism and defeatism, but o' the difference that 3-4 years and a recession makes...and politics. That area would probably have been a bright spot had the casino moved forward. Not that I'd ever go to the casino, but what difference does one more casino make, really?

I have said it before, although not a popular opinion. I would like to see one casino open up on the river. If they could limit it to one casino, let the highest bidder take the land and build a nice hotel/casino on the river. Fact of the matter, people go to casinos. They are popular just about everywhere, and putting one downtown, especially on the river, will help to anchor Core-to-Shore and draw development down to the river.

Not a cheap gaming center and bingo hall that is built with steel siding. A nice, upscale casino with a 10-15 story hotel.

Yeah. I have no idea how they're going to legitimately draw big development to C2S.. a mega church isn't going to build downtown anytime soon.

Yeah. I have no idea how they're going to legitimately draw big development to C2S.. a mega church isn't going to build downtown anytime soon.

I think new single family homes and townhomes, along with the urban apartments and condos, will be appealing to many people. There won't be really anything else like it so close to downtown and in the center of the metro.

This area sits in a hole, It becomes a lake whenever it rains.They could have very easily taken dirt from the crosstown project and elevated that property. Did they ever correct the drainage issues there

This area sits in a hole, It becomes a lake whenever it rains.They could have very easily taken dirt from the crosstown project and elevated that property. Did they ever correct the drainage issues there

Reno, I don't know if any work has been done on drainage but I'm sure the owners are well aware of any issues about that. I also suspect that using dirt from a public project to benefit a private area isn't that easily done without a substantial cost in buying the dirt. I'm not an engineer and have no idea what is needed but that had been a cost effective solution they probably would have considered that.

This area sits in a hole, It becomes a lake whenever it rains.They could have very easily taken dirt from the crosstown project and elevated that property. Did they ever correct the drainage issues there

As city streets and storm drains are the core of large scale rain/flood water collection and removal for an area I doubt a little dirt on top of the properties would be that effective. Dirt work could help with flooding on an individual property in as much as get water into the storm drain system or elevate properties more from the street (partial solution at bet as you then may have block islands), it will have little affect on the entire area flooding. Some real work on the streets, inlets, piping and/or outlets removing water from the area may have to be addressed.

I think new single family homes and townhomes, along with the urban apartments and condos, will be appealing to many people. There won't be really anything else like it so close to downtown and in the center of the metro.


Deep Deuce? Mid-town? Arts District? Heritage/Mesta? Bricktown (if housing ever gets going there)? I don't understand what makes Core2Shore "unlike anything else."

Reno, I don't know if any work has been done on drainage but I'm sure the owners are well aware of any issues about that. I also suspect that using dirt from a public project to benefit a private area isn't that easily done without a substantial cost in buying the dirt. I'm not an engineer and have no idea what is needed but that had been a cost effective solution they probably would have considered that.
It really depends on the project, if they are paying for storage of removed fill, then they can stipulate in the contract to relocate the fill to a private location as a no cost way of fill removal. In most cases ODOT stores the fill elsewhere for use on other projects, that is why there was the big mound for a long time around the I-44/I-240 interchange.

They should get dirt from Chesapeake. They have an incredible amount of dirt left over from all their projects. It's parked south of 63rd and east of Western.

Or there's the church on SW 119th with the sign out front: "Dirt for sale." I mean, they might want to support the southside economy if they're looking draw many customers from the south metro.

Deep Deuce? Mid-town? Arts District? Heritage/Mesta? Bricktown (if housing ever gets going there)? I don't understand what makes Core2Shore "unlike anything else."

Those districts offer higher density urban living. Core to Shore, in theory, offers more traditional neighborhood development with single family homes and townhomes. There will be nothing like it on that scale in any of the other urban districts and nothing else like it in the metro offering new homes and entirely new neighborhoods adjacent to the downtown core.

But, the new single family homes (which I imagine will be replicas of the new construction in places like Mesta and J.Park) will be confined to a relatively small area WEST of Walker. When people think Core2Shore, I think that most people think of what will be the higher density areas at the heart of it, from Walker eastward.

I would be waaaaaaay more pro-C2S if it was going to be more single family.

They should get dirt from Chesapeake. They have an incredible amount of dirt left over from all their projects. It's parked south of 63rd and east of Western.

Betts actually theyve been leveling it out as f late and will continue to. Chesapeake will need that dirt.