I really cannot wait to see it in place and lit up.

I really cannot wait to see it in place and lit up.

Ditto. Not many cities in America have a great looking lit up Ferris wheel on a body of water with an up close view of their downtown.

:D

http://www.rl5photography.com/img/s1/v46/p1121164526-2.jpg

What he meant to say was not every city can be darned near perfect like Seattle. :-)

Wow, Seattle is really the OKC of the NW!

:D

http://www.rl5photography.com/img/s1/v46/p1121164526-2.jpg

Well, we're taking your elephants. We could always take the ferris wheel too. :tongue:

I'd rather have the history along with the Santa Monica Pier version Ferris wheel........ But I saw the one in Seattle last summer, was nice. I saw the London Eye back in 2013 and it was amazing.

I wonder how many there are in this country. ?

Ferris wheel prepares to take a spin at Oklahoma River | Oklahoman.com (http://www.oklahoman.com/article/5403472?access=2ecf4e9177e87ab259fa1c44bf562efa)

From that article:


“We fully expect to have the Ferris wheel spinning this summer and to break ground on the first phase of Wheeler by the end of the year,” Humphreys said.

http://bettercities.net/sites/default/files/wheeler_0.jpg
Impressive drawings in this morning Oklahoman (Sunday) of the Wheeler district which include both the north and south shores of the Oklahoma River at Western Avenue.

Sorry, I knew that it looked familiar (above thread link) dah! It looked so much more impressive in this morning's print paper (LMAO).

http://bettercities.net/sites/default/files/wheeler_0.jpg
Impressive drawings in this morning Oklahoman (Sunday) of the Wheeler district which include both the north and south shores of the Oklahoma River at Western Avenue.

Sorry, I knew that it looked familiar (above thread link) dah! It looked so much more impressive in this morning's print paper (LMAO).

Seeing how this project looks like its gaining momentum, does anyone think maybe Wheeler Park might be a good area for a Convention Center?

https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/PUBLIC/WHEELER%20DIST.jpg?_subject_uid=335896898&w=AAA905WYns7f1RkNLI9w46mlD3Nlf3pj_o1t7IQqjog7BA

(Pardon the rudimentary drawing)
*Q: Does the city already own it?
*It is waterside!
*The Hotel would overlook Central park North (caddy corner)
*Hotel location is primo on I-40
The City would need to purchase Zone 2 for sure for development to inspire a hotel suitor
But I think zone one would be the hot spot. Between 499 Sheridan all the way down Walker to the Wheeler District.
*Pretty quickly after the purchase of zone 2, the city should then look to purchase Zones 3 and 4 for future development before values escalate.
*This CC location may also spark more interest in the Stockyard area and Farmers Market area as well as attract developers to the area from 12th ST down to the river.
*This plan would give a full 3 miles of attractive, walkable riverfront between the Convention Center, Parks and the Rapids Center.
*It wouldn’t take a lot to extend the streetcar down from Union Station to the Convention Center and Wheeler District
*Maybe the old abandoned tracks could be used to bring travelers up from the Airport to the Hotel on a small 2 car train which would also be a plus. Could build a station in Zone 2 in front of the Hotel and the Streetcar can route thru there.

Just daydreaming here!

It's all owned by the Humphreys.

http://bettercities.net/sites/default/files/wheeler_0.jpg
Impressive drawings in this morning Oklahoman (Sunday) of the Wheeler district which include both the north and south shores of the Oklahoma River at Western Avenue.

Sorry, I knew that it looked familiar (above thread link) dah! It looked so much more impressive in this morning's print paper (LMAO).
That area will never look like that in the lifetime of anyone that currently posts on this board.

Awww man!

Big dreams ballon deflated! :(

Considering I'm 25 I think it's definitely possible that in 50 years it could be built out like that. I don't know why you would think otherwise.

That area will never look like that in the lifetime of anyone that currently posts on this board.

Always with the negative waves Moriarty....... I would not be surprised to see it look very similar to that in a decade, maybe less.

It's all owned by the Humphreys.

Just for clarification, what area does he own? just Wheeler Park? or all zones? Surely not!

https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/PUBLIC/WHEELER%20DIST.jpg?_subject_uid=304151542&w=AABS21GrQKQUWz5tnjlSqBJ_oKnrHndQNjRNRzQOXvNWNQ

Considering I'm 25 I think it's definitely possible that in 50 years it could be built out like that. I don't know why you would think otherwise.

I'm 20. I would like to think I could make it to 70, but I guess I'm out of luck.

What is in that picture that is so unrealistic? There is nothing but 3-4 story buildings. In that picture alone there is approx 20 individual buildings. I don't see why it would take that long to have this built out, especially once a distinctive, unique and exciting landmark is built in the area which is the ferris wheel. This is a perfectly sitatued area between downtown, the river, a huge park with sporting venues, the farmers market, stockyards city and capital hill. This project is very exciting and developers are going to want a piece of the prize. You are being extremely ridiculous with your negativity.

That area will never look like that in the lifetime of anyone that currently posts on this board.

What a ridiculous statement. There are APARTMENT COMPLEXES routinely built on the scale of what's in that photo in OKC. There are much-larger high-end housing developments that go from dirt to build-out in five to ten years in the north metro. It's routine.

This developer has significant financial resources, plus several homebuilders lining up to build in this development. This includes his residential development advisor, who has built very successful multi-family downtown AND whose family business is the largest homebuilder in the state.

Again, ridiculous statement. Silly.

That area will never look like that in the lifetime of anyone that currently posts on this board.
That is incorrect. This area could easily become like this within the next decade or two of the push and demand is really there; we already have demand.

Don't feed the troll.

That area will never look like that in the lifetime of anyone that currently posts on this board.

Not with that attitude. Fortunately, the people developing it don't share it.

That area will never look like that in the lifetime of anyone that currently posts on this board.

Did you see Deep Deuce 10 years ago?

If they can hit the market they are aiming for -- those who are currently priced out of downtown -- then they can be wildly successful.

If they end up coming in at just a little less than what is for sale or lease right now, then they are going to face some challenges.

But they know this better than anyone and I suspect they will resist what almost everyone else has done: Promise more affordable units and then actually come to market with rates considerably higher.

That area will never look like that in the lifetime of anyone that currently posts on this board.

Aren't you a ray of sunshine. Do you see the future ?

There are just a ton of unknowns at this point for anyone to make statements about the viability of a project this size.

For the most part, we can't really even make statements about the viability of downtown OKC. We could find over the next 3 years that downtown is maxing out the current demand…we could equally find that we're still behind demand by 25,000 units. It's very likely in the middle of those 2 things. But the thing is, if downtown does not find a ceiling in the next 20 years (and it likely won't), this kind of project finds itself with a market.

The biggest question about this project, to me, is do they have the capital, investors, etc. in place to build the entire skeleton of a viable self-sustaining urban neighborhood before 2020?

Wil this reverse the "good gene pool emigration?" ;)

Build the Native American cultural center. Build 4 new towers in OKC, build a Convention Center and Hotel, build a streetcar system AND THEN start talking about a project of this magnitude. OKC always talks big and ends up small or with nothing at all. Devon Tower being the exception. Look at the cities history. Given the cities past performance jumping on people that express justifiable skepticism regarding this project is unwarrtanted.

Why in the world would development of Wheeler need to wait an additional eight years to a decade or more?

Ignore the AICCM. After the Speaker botched up that funding workout last year, who knows what OKC will end up doing with that plot once it takes back its dirt (which hopefully will be this year rather than having the state drop another mil or near about that while the less than impressive power that be and other house echelon play sit and spin on their thumbs.)

The streetcar, ok but not my favorite thing in the world, is well on its way all the same.

There will be a CC, and likely a hotel, and a private developer waiting on these before kicking in housing at the river makes no sense at all.

And though they are not devonesque, yo have the Sheridan 499, the OG&E, and other projects starting to move forward. OKC has some flaws in how it goes about things, but thankfully it is not a one trick pony town.

Wheeler Neighborhood (don't know why they called it a district) is going to be crazy succesful and will be done much faster than anyone, even the developers, can possibly imagine.

Wheeler Neighborhood (don't know why they called it a district) is going to be crazy succesful and will be done much faster than anyone, even the developers, can possibly imagine.I think so as well.

Build the Native American cultural center. Build 4 new towers in OKC, build a Convention Center and Hotel, build a streetcar system AND THEN start talking about a project of this magnitude. OKC always talks big and ends up small or with nothing at all. Devon Tower being the exception. Look at the cities history. Given the cities past performance jumping on people that express justifiable skepticism regarding this project is unwarrtanted.
I've lived in Oklahoma almost my entire life. I've seen time and time again how things end up being done in Oklahoma/Oklahoma City. I hope this turns out different. If this were proposed in texas, I'd say it was a slam dunk.

I've lived in Oklahoma almost my entire life. I've seen time and time again how things end up being done in Oklahoma/Oklahoma City. I hope this turns out different. If this were proposed in texas, I'd say it was a slam dunk.That is true. I have my hopes up though this will be different.

Build the Native American cultural center. Build 4 new towers in OKC, build a Convention Center and Hotel, build a streetcar system AND THEN start talking about a project of this magnitude. OKC always talks big and ends up small or with nothing at all. Devon Tower being the exception. Look at the cities history. Given the cities past performance jumping on people that express justifiable skepticism regarding this project is unwarrtanted.

I agree with this. I can also understand skepticism given the track record of things in this town.

However, I think the project can work out as long as the developer has both vision and funds to make it happen. The problem in OKC is developers rarely have both. These developers have the vision. In terms of demand, this kind of development has worked in other cities the size of OKC and even smaller all across the country. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be hugely successful here. I don't think Wheeler needs to wait an additional decade like some have said. The demand is there now; OKC just needs real estate developers with vision.

I believe the best thing that can be done at this point is to try and remain active in this project as much as Humphreys will allow.
Any type of citizen forum, be there, and voice your opinion.
There is some serious potential for this district if all parties are truly serious about it and want it to succeed as not only the next great urban neighborhood in OKC, or even OK, but possibly *one of* the best in the country.

As much as the Humphreys will allow..? I don't understand that comment. First of all, they invited the entire community to the design charettes (hundreds attended, from all walks of life and parts of the community) and encouraged unprecedented public comment and suggestions during planning phases.

Second, the development is being master planned by one of the foremost New Urbanism-focused planning firms in the world. I'm not sure forcing OKC's planning and design values into the situation at this point would help; as a matter of fact I'm quite convinced that doing so would be detrimental.

I think the better use of public input would be to encourage City officials to cooperate as much as humanly possible in the creation of Oklahoma's most walkable and human-scaled new neighborhood to be built in generations.

I believe it will be successful and built out in about 20-30 years. That's pretty much what their website says. (Or said, now it's behind a registration wall.)

They have that kind of timeline on another of their projects:

the timeline to build out Carlton Landing is more than 30 years with an incremental annual realization of the overall master plan. This development pace allows time for details and quality to be appreciated and intimate public places designed at a human scale to nourish a strong sense of community.

Master Plan | Carlton Landing (http://www.carltonlanding.com/design/master-plan/)

Build the Native American cultural center. Build 4 new towers in OKC, build a Convention Center and Hotel, build a streetcar system AND THEN start talking about a project of this magnitude. OKC always talks big and ends up small or with nothing at all. Devon Tower being the exception. Look at the cities history. Given the cities past performance jumping on people that express justifiable skepticism regarding this project is unwarrtanted.

Why would the success or failure of a private developer who owns the land they intend to develop have anything at all to do with nearly any those other projects? The street car maybe since there's always the chance it could impact Wheeler in future phases, but none of the rest of that is relevant to this discussion in the slightest. We weren't jumping on justifiable skepticism, we were jumping on pointless nay-saying.

We weren't jumping on justifiable skepticism, we were jumping on pointless nay-saying.

This, and it's gotten soooo old and tiring, and it's always the same folks. Someone mentioned OKC's track record, and all I can think is..

Deep Deuce
Film Row
Bricktown
Devon Tower
Midtown (still in progress but wow!)
Automobile Alley
23rd St (again, early in, but wow so far)
Ferris Wheel this summer
Oklahoma River Development
as well as the stuff in the works and coming soon...

I'll take this track record. Good stuff is happening and more is on the way. Sure, we have to be aware and wary at times, but constant nay-saying is pointless.

http://cdn.iwastesomuchtime.com/91520120049048172012154326.jpg

Build the Native American cultural center. Build 4 new towers in OKC, build a Convention Center and Hotel, build a streetcar system AND THEN start talking about a project of this magnitude. OKC always talks big and ends up small or with nothing at all. Devon Tower being the exception. Look at the cities history. Given the cities past performance jumping on people that express justifiable skepticism regarding this project is unwarrtanted.

Why? This project is completely independent of any of those developments. In fact, it is quite likely to encourage expansion of the streetcar across the river and draw development toward the southwest from the CBD. It is not dependent on any public financing aside from some proposed changes along Western. This is an example of doing it right.


As much as the Humphreys will allow..? I don't understand that comment. First of all, they invited the entire community to the design charettes (hundreds attended, from all walks of life and parts of the community) and encouraged unprecedented public comment and suggestions during planning phases.

Second, the development is being master planned by one of the foremost New Urbanism-focused planning firms in the world. I'm not sure forcing OKC's planning and design values into the situation at this point would help; as a matter of fact I'm quite convinced that doing so would be detrimental.

I think the better use of public input would be to encourage City officials to cooperate as much as humanly possible in the creation of Oklahoma's most walkable and human-scaled new neighborhood to be built in generations.

Could not agree more - I was impressed by the level of public input sought and attended the charettes. I think Blair has the vision and the Humphries name will garner the funding. I think this will be OKC's version of Baldwin Park (Orlando) because the starting point and goals are very similar. I also do not think it will take as long as many people think once they begin to see the are develop. I am convinced there is more than adequate demand to move the timeline up as long as prices for homes can be kept competitive with suburban homes - understanding there will be some fundamental differences between the two, but that is part of Wheeler's appeal for people who would like to move from the 'burbs to downtown.

I think this area could fill in extremely quickly if they can keep home prices reasonable. OKC has been expanding outward quickly with pretty bland suburban tract development. There's clearly a lot of demand here for housing. I don't think that everyone who is buying a new home is necessarily in love with buying suburban. The Wheeler District is only about 130 acres. If they can keep housing prices there even sorta competitive with suburban prices, they will fill up fast.

I think this area could fill in extremely quickly if they can keep home prices reasonable. OKC has been expanding outward quickly with pretty bland suburban tract development. There's clearly a lot of demand here for housing. I don't think that everyone who is buying a new home is necessarily in love with buying suburban. The Wheeler District is only about 130 acres. If they can keep housing prices there even sorta competitive with suburban prices, they will fill up fast.

Agree with this. The size of the Wheeler district is minuscule compared to the scale that suburban tract housing is going up in Edmond. I've spoken with plenty of people who have settled on Edmond but would have went urban if there was something available. I have no doubt the demand is there.

Agree with this. The size of the Wheeler district is minuscule compared to the scale that suburban tract housing is going up in Edmond. I've spoken with plenty of people who have settled on Edmond but would have went urban if there was something available. I have no doubt the demand is there.

Edmond is about safety and schools. The biggest hurdle isnt price. It is safety and schools. If they can address these two areas they will not need to be competitive on price vs Edmond.

Edmond is about safety and schools. The biggest hurdle isnt price. It is safety and schools. If they can address these two areas they will not need to be competitive on price vs Edmond.

Sort of. I mean yeah, for this reason my wife and I aren't considering a move for a few more years. But with one son a senior next year, and the other son a few years behind, we're already looking at our options once they're both out of the house for moving from Edmond to the downtown area, and pricing is one of our concerns there.

Edmond is about safety and schools. The biggest hurdle isnt price. It is safety and schools. If they can address these two areas they will not need to be competitive on price vs Edmond.

I agree with this. If there is anything working against the Wheeler District it's that it is OKCPS. Not everyone chooses Edmond though because of schools. The reason some do is because it's difficult to find a non-fixer upper in OKC in the urban core that is affordable.

I think this will be OKC's version of Baldwin Park (Orlando) because the starting point and goals are very similar.
Made me look. Baldwin Park homes are $200 a square ft. OKC median price is $88. I don't know what new suburban homes are but a couple of searches and I found Richardson Homes advertising $79.

http://www.richardsonhomesok.com/79-per-square-foot/

Carlton Landing is running $200+ a foot to build per their design specs on top of land costs. (and there's an association fee)


I also do not think it will take as long as many people think once they begin to see the are develop. I am convinced there is more than adequate demand to move the timeline up as long as prices for homes can be kept competitive with suburban homes - understanding there will be some fundamental differences between the two, but that is part of Wheeler's appeal for people who would like to move from the 'burbs to downtown.

^Repeated in almost every post. Therein lies the rub.

Edmond is about safety and schools. The biggest hurdle isnt price. It is safety and schools. If they can address these two areas they will not need to be competitive on price vs Edmond.

During the charettes they stated that they hope/intend to build a high-quality school to serve Wheeler and surrounding neighborhoods. Seems doable, considering Kirk's involvement with Rex.

Well we really don't know what price point they're aiming for here. I'd like to see more info about it. Carlton Landing looks like a nice place, but it's clearly only an option for the relatively wealthy. The Humphreys have said they want the Wheeler District to appeal to multiple price points. We should see fairly soon if they're serious about that. We will see if they can resist making everything $200 per square foot.

I don't think anyone is expecting $79 a square foot. But I don't think there's any reason you couldn't have some housing options there that are in the $100 to $125/sq foot range. That would open up the neighborhood to a lot more people.

Higher dollar per square foot is okay, because you need fewer square feet due to the available amenities in the neighborhood. I don't expect to see anything at $100/sf in Wheeler. I would like to see some 800-1200 square foot options that could be purchased for less than $200k.

Higher dollar per square foot is okay, because you need fewer square feet due to the available amenities in the neighborhood. I don't expect to see anything at $100/sf in Wheeler. I would like to see some 800-1200 square foot options that could be purchased for less than $200k.

Oh, it should be cheaper than that. That's the same price per square foot as the Brownstones or the Hill.

That's what quality construction in a desirable location costs. The Brownstones, The Hill, and hopefully Wheeler, are built to last. You don't get suburban fringe, minimum code pricing on new downtown development.

My bet is nothing less than $225 to 250K with the average unit sold being around $400K, thus a longer term build out than some wish for. It will develop, but it's going to take time to acquire those buyers. We'll see!

You can get quality construction for significantly cheaper than $200 per square foot. Yes, some of the downtown pricing is driven by quality of construction, but a lot of it is due to selecting the most expensive finishes available, and the rest is the very high demand in the area. The Wheeler District isn't in a desirable location yet. The land values in that area are quite cheap. It will be interesting to see where the price range falls.

"Starter homes" in west Edmond are selling for $110 to $140/sf. Despite the granite counter tops, many of these are cheaply built, and I don't expect them to look anything like my 75 year old house does in 2090.

Well we really don't know what price point they're aiming for here. I'd like to see more info about it. Carlton Landing looks like a nice place, but it's clearly only an option for the relatively wealthy. The Humphreys have said they want the Wheeler District to appeal to multiple price points. We should see fairly soon if they're serious about that. We will see if they can resist making everything $200 per square foot.

I don't think anyone is expecting $79 a square foot. But I don't think there's any reason you couldn't have some housing options there that are in the $100 to $125/sq foot range. That would open up the neighborhood to a lot more people.

To build a nice single family homes you are looking at $125 per square foot for labor and material. Add to that for the lot. Commercial constuction (4 units or more) is more per square foot to build because of commercial code but the land costs are less. I hope this helps.

You could always use design to live with less square feet comfortably.

I am thinking there is going to be some baby boomers that sell the 4000ft^2 homes for $100 ft^2 and buy a new home downtown for $200 ft^2 at 2000 ft^2.

I am thinking if it costs the same to buy in the Wheeler District that it does in Deep Deuce, that property is going to sell slowly. Part of the proposal was that it would be less expensive than the downtown options.