Relocate America released it top 100 cities to live in 2010, Tulsa came in 6th, and Norman was also listed in top 100, OKC not listed, what is wrong with this picture?

2010 Top 100 Places to live from Relocate America (http://www.relocateamerica.com/top-100-cities/)

Well we can't have this. Proceed to trash Tulsa...

Man, it's about time we had a thread arguing about which city is better.

I thought Tulsa was drying up since Dfest was cancelled?? hmm.....:doh:

Gosh, well obviously it's OKC, by like, a landslide..because, you know, Tulsa may be near hitting rock bottom. Metro said so.

I just don't understand how we were in the top ten in 2009, and not listed at all in 2010? Norman is not a surprise to be listed....

Tulsa > Norman > OKC.

Apparently that's the message they're trying to send.

I don't think that it is a reason to be alarmed, in that there are a ton of these types of top city lists and the key is finding out how they determine or rate the "best" of. Regardless it is great to have Tulsa and Norman on this list! We need to have more of a push the state forward mentality and I think we will find that it will do wonders for how all fair down the line. I am a staunch proponent of Oklahoma City and all that is transpiring there but also want nothing more than Tulsa to thrive as well. The two cities are completely different and that should be celebrated! It gives Oklahoma two unique and vibrant metropolitan areas to showcase on the national stage. Good for the overall economy of Oklahoma. Tulsa has taken some hits but there is a lot of great things that are going on there as well! They are by no means in a death spiral nor should any of us ever want for that to be the case. That would only further damage the economy and could even have a negative impact on OKC. Well done Tulsa!

I don't think that it is a reason to be alarmed, in that there are a ton of these types of top city lists and the key is finding out how they determine or rate the "best" of. Regardless it is great to have Tulsa and Norman on this list! We need to have more of a push the state forward mentality and I think we will find that it will do wonders for how all fair down the line. I am a staunch proponent of Oklahoma City and all that is transpiring there but also want nothing more than Tulsa to thrive as well. The two cities are completely different and that should be celebrated! It gives Oklahoma two unique and vibrant metropolitan areas to showcase on the national stage. Good for the overall economy of Oklahoma. Tulsa has taken some hits but there is a lot of great things that are going on there as well! They are by no means in a death spiral nor should any of us ever want for that to be the case. That would only further damage the economy and could even have a negative impact on OKC. Well done Tulsa!

This is a great post.

Gosh, well obviously it's OKC, by like, a landslide..because, you know, Tulsa may be near hitting rock bottom. Metro said so.

Your taking my quotes out of context as usual, and several others DID agree with me including Steve. Again, it's not that losing Dfest or just this and that small thing right now is the big death, it's the gradual dying of the City overall for the last 10 years or so. Just because poll X says something, Poll Y comes out tomorrow and will say the opposite. OKC's not on this one, but how many have we been on lately near the top? It goes to show the value of surveys/polls that aren't done scientifically.

We didn't make the list because of our ROADS and Potholes...

These lists are fairly meaningless. Their methodology is inconsistent as all hell, and when compared with other so-called rankings which attempt to rank similar traits, the factors which are chosen might as well have been picked out of a hat.

These sorts of lists are great for generating views on a site's page. That's about it. Don't take them seriously -- at least not unless we do well, then the list may be relevant and worthy of our attention.

Guys, here's the dirty little secret in the publishing world, especially magazines - the more obscure the magazine title, the more likely it is the ranking involved an advertising or sponsorship deal behind the scenes with those enjoying the higher rankings. The rankings to worry about, really, are titles like Forbes. The website for Relocate America claims it has helped "millions of Americans successfully relocate." I'd bet there are far more people who have benefited from OKC Talk in getting information relocating to OKC than this obscure site. (Any veteran member of www.okctalk.com knows it has been a valuable resource for newcomers).

OMG, it looks like Jenks became unlivable too. LOLROF. Guess the Jenks people need to pack up and move a few miles as they suburb deteriorated this year.

We didn't make the list because of our ROADS and Potholes...

Tulsa has a greater percentage of bad roads and potholes. That was a bad assumption.

..open mouth, insert foot..

So OKC isn't on the list but Tulsa and Norman are. Maybe they just didn't include large cities in their survey.

It looks like cities sent letters in explaining why they are the best. I bet OKC didn't even send in a letter. There are more small, suburb type cities in here more than metro's.

This isn't really a poll me thinks, just the top 100 cities that did send something in.

Tulsa is very deserving of their ranking!

Whatever. I'd rather live in Oklahoma City than Tulsa, and there are probably people who would rather live in Tulsa than Oklahoma City. There are so many factors that go into why one prefers one city over another. We thought we were going to move to Seattle once upon a time until we spent two weeks up there in the rain. That was all it took to change our minds.

Well we can't have this. Proceed to trash Tulsa....

You make no sense to me. You say you went to OU, and then we see you bashing it. Same thing with OKC. You live here and yet always seem to rip it for one thing or another. If you need attention that bad spartan I would suggest you go somewhere else other than a message board.

You make no sense to me. You say you went to OU, and then we see you bashing it. Same thing with OKC. You live here and yet always seem to rip it for one thing or another. If you need attention that bad spartan I would suggest you go somewhere else other than a message board.

LOL. Did they not teach critical thinking at OCCC or Rose State?

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. -Thomas Jefferson

Boomer.

I wouldn't put too much stock into these types of lists. There was a recent list that came out, Kiplinger's I believe, that named Austin as the Best City for the Next Decade for new business/jobs. That makes sense but it also listed Topeka in the Top 10. Norman is basically OKC anyway (same metro).

Did they name Topeka, or Google? That might have had a significant impact on the criteria.

LOL. Did they not teach critical thinking at OCCC or Rose State?

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. -Thomas Jefferson

Boomer.

I go to OU.

Did they name Topeka, or Google? That might have had a significant impact on the criteria.

Haha they cited that whole Topeka-Google stunt as a sign of the city's innovative and progressive nature. Nevermind Topeka doesn't have anything in common with Austin, Boulder, Seattle, Washington DC, and others on the Top 10 list. I could see Lawrence or even Kansas City but Topeka?

Des Moines was also on the list and is quickly becoming a mini-Minneapolis, a city on the northern Plains surrounded by farmland with no mountains or ocean that has been successful building a high quality of life, attracting new businesses, and retaining its young people. OKC should look to both of those cities, along with Omaha and Kansas City, as models. They always seem to make these kinds of lists..

These lists are fairly meaningless. Their methodology is inconsistent as all hell, and when compared with other so-called rankings which attempt to rank similar traits, the factors which are chosen might as well have been picked out of a hat.

These sorts of lists are great for generating views on a site's page. That's about it. Don't take them seriously -- at least not unless we do well, then the list may be relevant and worthy of our attention.

I think that's a good point. There is one thing we should take seriously though... On almost every list, regardless of criteria, the one city that shows up again and again as one of the highest ranked in our region is Austin, TX. Within the state, it is often Norman that appears on these lists. Regardless of criteria I think it does say something very positive about cities that can manage to show up on a wide range of "best places" lists that look at, often times, very different criteria from one another. Really OKC's civic leaders (or any city's leaders for that matter) should ask what it is about some of those cities that causes them to turn up time and again on lists such as this and what can we learn about that and apply to OKC....

Just a thought anyway.

Congrats Tulsa! Don't hate be happy for our statesmen. It's a pretty city, good vibe, and doing well with nothing relatively big going on as of now. Omahaha, Des Moines, and other plains cities that I've been to are a joke compared to Tulsa. And every time I go there it seems people are pretty happy to live there.

It's kind of like a Huge Edmond that actually has something to brag about instead of hot gas. Good job Tulsa

It's kind of like a Huge Edmond that actually has something to brag about instead of hot gas. Good job Tulsa

"Don't Edmond my Tulsa" anyone? :sofa:

Ha! I'm sure a lot of Tulsans say "Don't Oklahoma my Tulsa"

^^^
Naw. For some reason they think Tulsa is a state. Whenever I would go up and the fair was running, I would ask locals to show me where the State of Tulsa was at. After getting dumbfounded looks would ask them, well you have the Tulsa State Fair. In OKC we have the State Fair of Oklahoma. At least we know what state we are holding it in and even though we are the largest city in the State and the seat for state government, we don't need to exaggerate and claim we ARE the state.

:LolLolLol

I lived in Tulsa for 6 years now in OKC for about 6 years (northside for 4 years now southwest near moore/norman)... Tulsa was fine but I much prefer OKC..... and especially norman it's a great town.... and this is coming from a sooner hatin' cowboy! lol

I wonder why Norman always makes these lists? Norman has a good retail and commercial base, but they lack in the industry department, and if you don't work for the City of Norman, OU, Norman Regional Healthplex, your in trouble finding a decent white collar job that pays well, I have been a resident of Norman for 11 years so that's how I know the job issue here...Norman is more like a bedroom city to OKC. Don't get me wrong, Norman is a great city to raise a family and they have a lot to do here, but its not a city for young professionals looking for white collar jobs that pay well. When I graduated OU in 03, most of my classmates headed south to Dallas to find a job.

Congrats Tulsa! Don't hate be happy for our statesmen. It's a pretty city, good vibe, and doing well with nothing relatively big going on as of now. Omahaha, Des Moines, and other plains cities that I've been to are a joke compared to Tulsa. And every time I go there it seems people are pretty happy to live there.

It's kind of like a Huge Edmond that actually has something to brag about instead of hot gas. Good job Tulsa

I think OKC and Tulsa can learn a lot from Omaha and Des Moines. I am impressed by both cities and have arguably more vibrant downtown's than either OKC or Tulsa, even though they are smaller. Minneapolis, a mostly flat city surrounded by farmland with sub-freezing and often sub-zero temperatures all winter, has over 3 million people in its metro, all 4 pro sports teams, and a very vibrant downtown area. They invest heavily in their parks and bike trails and use those things to attract young people and immigrants, which there are a lot of both. Of course they also have a progressive state government, something we unfortunately do not have..

T-town seems to be an island of non okieness. That may explain why its so different. Tulsans are proud of their city and have always been treated like the red headed stepchild from the legislature, perhaps that is the reason why Tulsans feel like they are on their own. Unfortunately the city govt has also let down the populace.

Minneapolis, a mostly flat city surrounded by farmland with sub-freezing and often sub-zero temperatures all winter, has over 3 million people in its metro, all 4 pro sports teams, and a very vibrant downtown area. They invest heavily in their parks and bike trails and use those things to attract young people and immigrants, which there are a lot of both. Of course they also have a progressive state government, something we unfortunately do not have..

And for all that people most certainly have to pay higher taxes in Minnesota than they do in Oklahoma. In Oklahoma we want to pay lower taxes, not higher, or at least the conservative politicians think we do, so they can get our votes. Watch how Oklahoma Republicans running for elections will soon be stressing cutting taxes and making government smaller. Never mind that gaps in the state budget had to be filled with Obama's giveaway money.

Tulsa beats OKC in the Lakes category hands down. I would love to have one of their big lakes around here. Thunderbird is too dirty and crowded and has become a dumping ground for dead bodies.

And for all that people most certainly have to pay higher taxes in Minnesota than they do in Oklahoma. In Oklahoma we want to pay lower taxes, not higher, or at least the conservative politicians think we do, so they can get our votes. Watch how Oklahoma Republicans running for elections will soon be stressing cutting taxes and making government smaller. Never mind that gaps in the state budget had to be filled with Obama's giveaway money.

Good point. Minnesota has some of the highest taxes in the country for residents and businesses outside of California and New Jersey. Yet people continue to flock there and there are large number of F500 companies headquartered there. All this with a winter where temps. may not go above freezing for weeks at a time and tons of mosquitos in the summer. Still over 3 million people live there and they have a strong growth rate. Minneapolis has invested heavily in improving its quality of life and it has paid off.

Minneapolis = Highly educated City

They put a HUGE emphasis on their education system and lots of money into it.

Taxes are a higher there but the average income is higher too.

No grocery tax or clothing sales tax.

Also no Okiethink!

Also no Okiethink!

That raises a different question all together: why is it that Great Plains states to the north seem to be more progressive such as Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin while southern Plains states like Oklahoma and Texas are so much more conservative. Is it because we are more closely tied to the South? The states to the north, even Kansas and Nebraska, don't seem to have the religious conservatism that exists in Oklahoma for some reason.

I wonder why Norman always makes these lists? Norman has a good retail and commercial base, but they lack in the industry department, and if you don't work for the City of Norman, OU, Norman Regional Healthplex, your in trouble finding a decent white collar job that pays well, I have been a resident of Norman for 11 years so that's how I know the job issue here...Norman is more like a bedroom city to OKC. Don't get me wrong, Norman is a great city to raise a family and they have a lot to do here, but its not a city for young professionals looking for white collar jobs that pay well. When I graduated OU in 03, most of my classmates headed south to Dallas to find a job.

There are TONS of good jobs in Norman. We have what's being called "green collar" jobs. They are better than white collar jobs. Can't think of anywhere else in Oklahoma with a lot of "green collar" jobs. Biotech. Research. Technology. That's where Norman has an advantage over the rest of Oklahoma. No, we do not have a big oil corporation, however..

That raises a different question all together: why is it that Great Plains states to the north seem to be more progressive such as Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin while southern Plains states like Oklahoma and Texas are so much more conservative. Is it because we are more closely tied to the South? The states to the north, even Kansas and Nebraska, don't seem to have the religious conservatism that exists in Oklahoma for some reason.

They were founded on different things. I think that the value that rings true here in Oklahoma and Texas is making money and gettin rich quick. The value that states such as Iowa and Nebraska were founded on are more aligned with family values. As such, education is their primary concern. Gettin rich quick is our primary concern.

They were founded on different things. I think that the value that rings true here in Oklahoma and Texas is making money and gettin rich quick. The value that states such as Iowa and Nebraska were founded on are more aligned with family values. As such, education is their primary concern. Gettin rich quick is our primary concern.

And that could be a direct byproduct of the oil boom days, which the northern states did not experience. Oklahoma (and Texas) to this day rides the tide of the energy industry. When prices are up the state is awash with money and having low taxes is fine. When prices go down we run into problems.

There are TONS of good jobs in Norman. We have what's being called "green collar" jobs. They are better than white collar jobs. Can't think of anywhere else in Oklahoma with a lot of "green collar" jobs. Biotech. Research. Technology. That's where Norman has an advantage over the rest of Oklahoma. No, we do not have a big oil corporation, however..

Exactly, but all those "green collar" jobs are in conjunction with OU. We need more private high paying companies to come to Norman, that is not fueled by OU.

Exactly, but all those "green collar" jobs are in conjunction with OU. We need more private high paying companies to come to Norman, that is not fueled by OU.

Weathernews. Albon Engineering. Sitel. Immuno-Mycologics. Bio-Cide. Southwest Nanotechnology. ClientLogic. Shaklee Corp. Space Imaging. Xyant Technology. Hitachi. Astellas Pharma. NOAA. And so on....

On second thought there are also a TON of non-tech big employers, too: USPS National Training Center. Sysco. Johnson Controls/York. Office Max National Sales Center. And so on....

This is just my opinion, but to answer my own question on why do some cities such as Austin or Norman tend to always show up on these lists regardless of criteria... in a word, I think it boils down to diversity.

Each of these lists tends to focus on some things they think make a city great: arts, music, sports, entertainment/bars/cuisine, jobs, education, parks, and so on. I've noticed that the cities that tend to pop up on all the lists are the ones that tend to have strong showings in all of these areas -- in other words, no matter what criteria you decide to choose from, you're going to get some good results.

Austin is a perfect example. It's a green city with a relatively low cost of living, with lots of jobs, and with lots of hip and artistic stuff going on in town and tons of recreational activities.

I think if we want OKC to be one of these cities we must continue to diversify to the point that there is something here for everyone to enjoy.

Tulsa beats OKC in the Lakes category hands down. I would love to have one of their big lakes around here. Thunderbird is too dirty and crowded and has become a dumping ground for dead bodies.

Wait a minute...Draper has its fair share of dead bodies too thank you very much

Exactly, but all those "green collar" jobs are in conjunction with OU. We need more private high paying companies to come to Norman, that is not fueled by OU.

Every city needs more private high paying companies but you make it sound like having industries fueled by OU is a bad thing which it certainly is not. Most of the businesses near the OU Med Center in OKC are fueled by OU. Do you think any of those businesses would have been in Norman or OKC without OU?

We know how Austin is with UT.. 55,000 students in the middle of the city.

Weathernews. Albon Engineering. Sitel. Immuno-Mycologics. Bio-Cide. Southwest Nanotechnology. ClientLogic. Shaklee Corp. Space Imaging. Xyant Technology. Hitachi. Astellas Pharma. NOAA. And so on....

On second thought there are also a TON of non-tech big employers, too: USPS National Training Center. Sysco. Johnson Controls/York. Office Max National Sales Center. And so on....


hmmmm.....ok good point, but most of these companies have been in Norman for over 10 years. USPS, Sysco, York, Astellas, Hitachi...etc...give me a major private company that has came to Norman in the last 5 years, or even 10?

Every city needs more private high paying companies but you make it sound like having industries fueled by OU is a bad thing which it certainly is not. Most of the businesses near the OU Med Center in OKC are fueled by OU. Do you think any of those businesses would have been in Norman or OKC without OU?

I am not saying its a bad thing, but Norman needs to learn how to hold its own without so much fuelation from OU. The Norman city councel needs to learn how to attract more high-tech industries, and Class A jobs, without outside support from OU.

Wait a minute...Draper has its fair share of dead bodies too thank you very much

Not so much for Draper anymore. There was a time, to be sure, but it's been a right fair spell if my memory serves correct.

hmmmm.....ok good point, but most of these companies have been in Norman for over 10 years. USPS, Sysco, York, Astellas, Hitachi...etc...give me a major private company that has came to Norman in the last 5 years, or even 10?

I can give you one that has left off the top of my head..Saxon..

I can give you one that has left off the top of my head..Saxon..

May 13, 2010
City lacking in large industrial sites, Wood says

By Andrew Knittle The Norman Transcript

NORMAN — The city of Norman is lacking in readily available large industrial sites that big-time employers seek out when they’re looking to relocate or expand, said Don Wood, head of the Norman Economic Development Coalition.

Wood discussed the city’s lack of large (more than 100 acres) sites with the Norman City Council on Tuesday evening during a study session, telling them that Norman needs to do something to have the right space at the right time.

“Time is the enemy,” Wood said of the process of luring large-scale employers to a new city. “When they decide they want to go, they want to go right away.

“You’ve got to take away the guess work.”

Wood said other cities, including Oklahoma City, Tulsa and Ardmore, are developing industrial complexes using public funds to get those sites in place. He said if Norman doesn’t do the same, or at least consider it, they risk being left behind.

No news to council

Wood’s statements shouldn’t be news for council members and city leaders.

Back on March 2, City Manager Steve Lewis, Mayor Cindy Rosenthal and other officials attended the annual Sooner Centurion Economic Summit at the University of Oklahoma.

During the NEDC-hosted summit, Bill Fruth, a Florida-based analyst who opines on local and state economies, said the same thing.

Fruth said Norman needs more land and facilities to attract companies looking to relocate. He said having someplace to build is vital.

“If you don’t have land, you’re not in the game,” he said, pointing to places like Amarillo, Texas, where city leaders build “spec” facilities that can be moved into almost immediately.

City governments, who can sometimes pass ordinances that make it difficult for businesses to do what they need to do to relocate or expand into an area, should work closely with economic developers to make sure regulations aren’t hindering companies from choosing their towns, Fruth said, adding that retaining and growing existing industries is more important than going out and getting new ones.

Attitude important

Fruth also said that attitude toward new businesses is more important than many believe.

“They (companies) don’t want to go to an area where they’re not wanted,” he said.

Where to build?

Wood said that north Norman is most attractive to potential employers looking to relocate because it is closer to Oklahoma City. He said smaller commute times for Oklahoma Citybased workers and the limited potential for large-site development along Oklahoma Highway 9 make the northern section of Norman more attractive.

During a recent discussion at a council study session, it was agreed that Hitachi was the last large-scale employer to make its presence felt in Norman. It was also noted at the meeting that Hitachi, which recently began expansion to its facility on the city’s south side, located to Norman in the 1980s — so it’s been a while.

Andrew Knittle 366-3540 aknittle@normantranscript.com

If proximity to OKC is an important selling point.. why not just locate in OKC lol. It's only 5 miles away.

I am not saying its a bad thing, but Norman needs to learn how to hold its own without so much fuelation from OU. The Norman city councel needs to learn how to attract more high-tech industries, and Class A jobs, without outside support from OU.

Why bother? Stillwater attracts absolutely ZERO high tech industries and class A jobs, yet exists as one of the fastest growing cities in Oklahoma outside of the metro areas. And yet Stillwater has certainly been growing at a faster percentage rate in population than Norman has since 2000.

Exactly, but all those "green collar" jobs are in conjunction with OU. We need more private high paying companies to come to Norman, that is not fueled by OU.

But that's the way it seems to work with high-tech--the presence of top engineering/science schools is often the catalyst for developing a large base of these "green collar" jobs. These universities create startup companies and provide a local talent pool, while local companies can leverage the resources of the university (at low cost). The best long-term way for Norman and OKC to attract these high paying companies (and to create new ones) would be making substantial investments in the engineering and science programs at OU.

That raises a different question all together: why is it that Great Plains states to the north seem to be more progressive such as Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin while southern Plains states like Oklahoma and Texas are so much more conservative. Is it because we are more closely tied to the South? The states to the north, even Kansas and Nebraska, don't seem to have the religious conservatism that exists in Oklahoma for some reason.


Have you ever been to kansas? I played ball there my freshmen year and we were looked upon as hippies and thugs for the most part... The mennonites there are similar to amish... I dont see how Omaha compares IMO... cold most of the year and boring the rest of it.

But that's the way it seems to work with high-tech--the presence of top engineering/science schools is often the catalyst for developing a large base of these "green collar" jobs. These universities create startup companies and provide a local talent pool, while local companies can leverage the resources of the university (at low cost). The best long-term way for Norman and OKC to attract these high paying companies (and to create new ones) would be making substantial investments in the engineering and science programs at OU.

Agree, OU is key to OKC's future and the city is very lucky to have such a university so close. Austin's growth is directly related to the excellent undergrad and graduate science/tech/engineering programs at UT.

I am not saying its a bad thing, but Norman needs to learn how to hold its own without so much fuelation from OU. The Norman city councel needs to learn how to attract more high-tech industries, and Class A jobs, without outside support from OU.

The University of Oklahoma is and probably always will be Norman's biggest asset. Any business considering relocation will know that. Why wouldn't the city use that for it's main emphasis? The University of Texas is the main reason that Austin attracts high-tech industries. Does Austin need to learn how to hold it's own without the university also?