So what do you think? Should this event have been banned from Bricktown? Should Crawl for Cancer Inc. disclose how much proceeds are raised by these events and how much actually goes to charity?
Here's my latest writing at OKC Central - Information about Oklahoma City, Bricktown and beyond (http://www.okccentral.com). Keep in mind that the latest Crawl for Cancer event took place this afternoon in Kansas City and participants were commenting on Twitter that they were drunk by 2 p.m.

Caveat #1: Sexual harassment is never acceptable.

Caveat#2: public urination is never acceptable.

Caveat #3: If their finances are shaky, it's worth a story.

Having said that, I wonder if too big a deal is being made about this. I wasn't there and I don't know anything beyond what I've read, and I think the middle of the day is generally a bad time for a bar crawl, but the questions have to be asked: are some in OKC a little too sensitive; and also, what is it exactly that Bricktown wants to be? In St. Louis there are a ton of these types of fundraisers and they generally gravitate to urban bar districts that are a little "rougher around the edges." (neighborhoods that have grown up more organically, are more bohemian, less planned, and generally more tolerant. OKC doesn't have these sorts of neighborhoods. So is Beicktown going to be a place where moms and dads and kids with strollers rule the day, or is it going to be a more relaxed atmosphere? I don't think anybody has quite gotten the balance right. This event sounds ill-conceived and would probably be a better fit elsewhere, but I hope Bricktown doesn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If they push away what sounds like a lot of business because of a few bad apples...

Maybe the area around Edna's, the Drunken Fry and 51st Speakeasy would be better?

I find the whole concept of charity "crawling" from bar to bar getting drunk - for any cause - disgusting. I guess I'm not very "tolerant."

You're making too big of a deal out of nothing. I thought it was a fun event, and yeah there were probably some people now and then that were getting a bit too rowdy, but I have to tell you Steve I felt far safer there than I have most nights in Bricktown after a big event, such as a Thunder game. You want to talk about something how about the reggae festival a few years ago that Bricktown sponsored where I heard of two shootings and observed one myself and saw ZERO media coverage on it, except in out of state press. Bad things go on all the time down there and I think that the Bricktown Association is making a disproportionate example out of the Pub Crawl.

Honestly, when I see people writing or saying things like this, which I perceive to be in total hypocrisy compared to what is often tolerated downtown with respect to sponsored events, it makes me want to never visit Bricktown again.

That, and this once again gets back to the desire of many in our town to make the city one giant Disneyfied family friendly monstrosity. I am so sick of family friendly... can there not be one district in this town for civilized adults? Here's an idea parents, don't take your six your old on a walk down a street that has nothing but bars on it. Stay on the canal if you want to visit Bricktown.

Harsh? Yes. Uncalled for? No.

Ah.... interesting you should note the reggae festival. I was there too. I talked to the cops. Sorry dismayed, but what I saw was a crowd that might have enjoyed some joints, but was otherwise totally mellow. I did some press coverage of the reggae festival coinciding with that shooting, and then went out to see for myself. They were, for the most part, aging hippies. And let's be clear - the Bricktown Association didn't sponsor reggae, it was the Brewers.
Another note: the Brewers responded to my inquiries. And it wasn't held during the day.
You bring up a good question: after all the city has invested in Bricktown, with the ballpark, canal, etc., should it be turned over exclusively to club goers who primarily go out Thursday through Saturday nights and that's it?

not really a charity...

You bring up a good question: after all the city has invested in Bricktown, with the ballpark, canal, etc., should it be turned over exclusively to club goers who primarily go out Thursday through Saturday nights and that's it?

Didn't realize it was in danger of being there. The answer: No, of course not. We need to do everything we can to keep the nightlife in its place and keep people from being on the streets, keep people from drinking, and keep out anyone that looks undesirable.

I think dismayed wrote an awesome post, except for bashing Reggae fest. In my opinion Reggae fest, and the Pub Crawl before it became synonymous with problems, are the events Bricktown has geared towards 20-somethings. And lord knows there aren't coordinated events geared toward more sophisticated groups, like a smaller Bricktown arts or international food festival. There might be potential to do an art car festival similar to Houston's or an international food festival similar to Cincy's. Those would bring 20-somethings who want to do more than just drink to Bricktown.

We talk sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much about wanting more 20-somethings to move to OKC and boost the local economy. This is an example of that crowd clashing with the family friendly crowd. Which direction is OKC going to go? Is the city going to remain stable as a "awesome place to raise a family" or is it going to become more dynamic and morph into a city with more to do for 20-somethings? Now I'm not saying there's nothing for 20-somethings to do but in order to cement the perception that there's a LOT for them, you have to hand the keys over to Bricktown some of the time. Period.

AND as someone pointed out on the BT Assoc. blog, the Brewers always paid for security at their events. Crawl for Cancer could clearly care less about taking responsibility for their participants.

The problem is not that people were drinking in Bricktown. It's that they were BINGE DRINKING at 1pm on a Saturday, a time when families expect to be able to stroll Bricktown without feeling like they are on Bourbon Street. OF COURSE families know not to be walking around at 2am in Bricktown. This kind of behavior is not as big of a deal at that time, but for it to happen in the early afternoon, in the name of a "charity", and that "charity" not taking any responsibility for the bad behavior--that's where this is all wrong.

Other than this event, I think there is a perfect balance between family-friendly and drinker/clubber-friendly in Bricktown.

Maybe they could use some of their illicit profits to go toward security detail. Or would that cut into the bottom line?

Maybe the area around Edna's, the Drunken Fry and 51st Speakeasy would be better?

That's where The Lost Ogle's snuggie pub crawl took place and it was a pretty big success..

However, a "pub crawl" consisting of only 3 establishments is a tad pathetic... It's like a 1 mile "marathon"



We talk sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much about wanting more 20-somethings to move to OKC and boost the local economy. This is an example of that crowd clashing with the family friendly crowd. Which direction is OKC going to go? Is the city going to remain stable as a "awesome place to raise a family" or is it going to become more dynamic and morph into a city with more to do for 20-somethings? Now I'm not saying there's nothing for 20-somethings to do but in order to cement the perception that there's a LOT for them, you have to hand the keys over to Bricktown some of the time. Period.

Exactly...

Not too long ago, there *was* a 20-something here on this forum complaining about this very issue..

Of course, the regulars here called her names, told her to open her own club if she didn't like it and/or leave OKC..

so she did leave and took about 30 jobs filled by tech professionals who were mostly 20-somethings with her

Didn't realize it was in danger of being there. The answer: No, of course not. We need to do everything we can to keep the nightlife in its place and keep people from being on the streets, keep people from drinking, and keep out anyone that looks undesirable.

I think dismayed wrote an awesome post, except for bashing Reggae fest. In my opinion Reggae fest, and the Pub Crawl before it became synonymous with problems, are the events Bricktown has geared towards 20-somethings. And lord knows there aren't coordinated events geared toward more sophisticated groups, like a smaller Bricktown arts or international food festival. There might be potential to do an art car festival similar to Houston's or an international food festival similar to Cincy's. Those would bring 20-somethings who want to do more than just drink to Bricktown.

We talk sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much about wanting more 20-somethings to move to OKC and boost the local economy. This is an example of that crowd clashing with the family friendly crowd. Which direction is OKC going to go? Is the city going to remain stable as a "awesome place to raise a family" or is it going to become more dynamic and morph into a city with more to do for 20-somethings? Now I'm not saying there's nothing for 20-somethings to do but in order to cement the perception that there's a LOT for them, you have to hand the keys over to Bricktown some of the time. Period.

Nick, I don't think there are too many 20-somethings who have thought about moving here but decided that the lack of a bar crawl in the middle of the day in Bricktown was the deal killer. I don't think you really believe that.

As for a clash between young 20-somethings and the 'family crowd," I don't buy that. Maybe some 20-somethings put a premium on drinking as the end-all and be-all of defining the urban culture, but that's not even the issue. It's having such an event in the middle of the day that makes it especially nauseating. And just so you know, I love a cold beer or a lemon drop now and then, it's not about drinking per se; but I also know 20-somethings who have fled areas in other cities where it has become too raucous, loud, unsafe and ultimately, unlivable due to "turning the keys over" to elements that destroyed what was once a great place. It happens in every city. Deep Ellum, anyone? Name-Your-Hip-Hop district in any of the top 10 largest cities?

Oh, Dismayed, you wrote: "can there not be one district in this town for civilized adults?" The idea that defining a place that has bar crawls to mean it's a place for "civilized adults," I know was not meant to be humorous.

Fuzzy, who are you referring to?

MikeOKC, I don't begrudge your opinion. But I am intimately involved in lots of different charity activities. As a "thirty-something," we are constantly looking for ways to introduce those of us who are young to the idea of giving to charity. That crowd is not likely to spend $100+ on a dinner auction where everybody else is older. I am on three "young friends" boards and alcohol-centered activities are a part of the mix.

I don't think anybody would move to a town or move away from a town based on something like this. But over-reactions can be seen as another symptom of a place where you are welcomed if you are a church-going family man or woman, and if you are not there yet, well, you can always go bowling, or to a movie. I realize that's a gross oversimplification, but you get my point.

Fuzzy, who are you referring to?

her okctalk username was jc4455

the thread was this one - http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/19649-nba-players-think-okc-boring-boo-hoo.html

And, Steve, to your third post, I haven't lived in OKC since I was 18, so I didn't realize that area had become any kind of hotbed. I did drink at Edna's in high school. Maybe that sort of area is more appropriate for this type of activity than Bricktown. If Bricktown is moving towards more of a "toy museum" direction, it's clearly striving for the "family friendly" demographic, at least during the day.

What's odd is I've not witnessed this sort of clash at all until Crawl for Cancer. For years there seemed to have been an unspoken agreement that clubbing and heavy drinking would occur generally at night (St. Patrick's Day the understood exception) and family oriented traffic would rule during the day.
To understand why this is might be seen as being different from anything else, ask yourselves this: on what other days of the year do ROK Bar, Wormy Dog, Saphire, Drinkz and America's Pub open up to serve drinks at 1 p.m. on a Saturday?
Critics I've talked to say they wouldn't have been so upset if this took place on a Saturday night, but that this event asks for special treatment by bringing Saturday night rowdiness to the daytime when families are around.
Now, as for me, my main interest is to see whether "all proceeds" really go to charity as promised. So far, the for-profit Crawl for Cancer folks don't want to talk. And that, of course, has me very, very, very interested...

her okctalk username was jc4455

the thread was this one - http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/19649-nba-players-think-okc-boring-boo-hoo.html

Interesting. But isn't that a totally separate topic? I don't know of anyone involved in the debate who is arguing such pub crawls shouldn't occur at night. It's the daytime aspect that is being argued.

Steve, I was actually referring to the last Reggae Fest that I went to, which was about 3 years ago. I stopped going because I did not like the element that attended. If the crowd was different this year then I guess they have cleaned things up. The point was that there were actually shootings that night, and I even documented it in a thread and referenced a link to an article that verifies this back at the time. It's somewhere here on the board, feel free to look it up. The Oklahoman did not cover it. I'm not trying to bash a Bricktown event but I am pointing out that there are things going on down there all the time that start in the afternoon that, just by their very nature, sometimes people get out of hand. That doesn't mean those events have to be banned totally and completely forever. You can just avoid Bricktown on that night or afternoon like how I now avoid Reggae Fest.

Mike, I expected better out of you than a personal attack. I didn't make any of my responses personal. Perhaps you should do some soul-searching as well.

I think you are being intellectually dishonest if you think that this is about folks who "think binge drinking on a Saturday afternoon is the end all be all."

So let's stop the anecdotal nonsense. Steve I'm guessing you have contacts at the OCPD because of your area of expertise. Can you tell us how many people were arrested the Saturday afternoon in question in Bricktown between the hours of noon and 6 p.m? Can you give us a breakdown on the charges? Also, for comparison's sake, tell us what it normally is on any given Saturday. Then, also for comparison's sake, please tell us what the breakdown looks like for other Saturday's when something big is going on in the afternoon. Perhaps St. Patrick's Day four years ago.

Seriously, I am curious... mostly because I am having a hard time matching up what you're describing with what I saw. You guys realize that there were groups of 40 and 50 somethings that made up some of these teams right? Heck I saw old ladies there drinking beer who looked like they were part of the "Red Hats" or some group like that.

I'm just saying it seems like people are jumping to conclusions about this event.

Interesting. But isn't that a totally separate topic? I don't know of anyone involved in the debate who is arguing such pub crawls shouldn't occur at night. It's the daytime aspect that is being argued.

yeah, sorry, i was referring to the topic of family-friendly vs. 20-somethings when it comes to OKC entertainment that spartan brought up :smile:

I didn't realize that area had become any kind of hotbed. I did drink at Edna's in high school. Maybe that sort of area is more appropriate for this type of activity than Bricktown.

It definitely is.


What's odd is I've not witnessed this sort of clash at all until Crawl for Cancer. For years there seemed to have been an unspoken agreement that clubbing and heavy drinking would occur generally at night (St. Patrick's Day the understood exception) and family oriented traffic would rule during the day.


This is exactly the problem. Completely agree.

Dismayed, are you talking about 2006? If so, I covered those shootings extensively (they occurred on Mickey Mantle Drive, not in the Reggae fest lot) and looked at Reggae fest. And as a result of those shootings, I was at the 2007 Reggae fest and NOTHING happened. I WAS THERE.
Cops were out in force on St. Patrick's Day. To be honest, what I'm told is they were caught unaware on May 1 and weren't out like they wish they had been. They're promising that if the event somehow occurs again they'll be out in force - and cracking down on anyone being served alcohol when already intoxicated.
Do you think St. Patrick's Day encourages binge drinking in four-hour period.

Spartan, wasn't trying to bash Reggae Fest, but I can see now how you could think that. Just know all I was trying to say is that there are plenty of afternoons where people are out drinking... many times for Bricktown-organized events such as that, and others simply because contrary to popular belief there are many bars open in the afternoon in Bricktown, and yes they sometimes run promotions if a football or basketball game or whatever is going on. So all I'm really asking is was the Pub Crawl really that much different, and if so can someone quantify the difference instead of just hating on it.

Nick, I don't think there are too many 20-somethings who have thought about moving here but decided that the lack of a bar crawl in the middle of the day in Bricktown was the deal killer. I don't think you really believe that.

As for a clash between young 20-somethings and the 'family crowd," I don't buy that. Maybe some 20-somethings put a premium on drinking as the end-all and be-all of defining the urban culture, but that's not even the issue. It's having such an event in the middle of the day that makes it especially nauseating. And just so you know, I love a cold beer or a lemon drop now and then, it's not about drinking per se; but I also know 20-somethings who have fled areas in other cities where it has become too raucous, loud, unsafe and ultimately, unlivable due to "turning the keys over" to elements that destroyed what was once a great place. It happens in every city. Deep Ellum, anyone? Name-Your-Hip-Hop district in any of the top 10 largest cities?

Oh, Dismayed, you wrote: "can there not be one district in this town for civilized adults?" The idea that defining a place that has bar crawls to mean it's a place for "civilized adults," is almost laughable. I haven't changed much since my 20's when it comes to many things. If it takes all of what you posted to make one a "civilized adult," then my suggestion would be to consider your life closely, sooner rather than later. No, I don't mean religion, I don't do that either. Just think about it.

I don't think "AND, you can even drink till you pass out in the middle of Sheridan on a Saturday afternoon!!" is the kind of thing you put on a relocation brochure per se, so we are definitely in agreement there. I also want to mention that I think everyone in this thread, myself included, believes that there does have to be that balance between "certain elements" and the "mainstream" which you want to preserve the area for. Bad elements can ruin an area and detract from the hard work that countless of people in our community have put into making Bricktown a success.

But look at it from the point of view of the young professionals living in OKC. Let's face it right now: If you are in Bricktown past midnight the scene that likely surrounds you is a cluster____. Idiots puking in the canal. 10 cop cars lined up along Mickey Mantle. Foot patrols harassing the somewhat sober people because it's easier than dealing with a drunk. If you're there on a special night they might have had a fight, meaning an important street will be closed off for an hour and you'll see 20 flashing squad cars on the scene (my point being that a bad thing gets blown waaaay out of proportion) in the middle of the street writing up the reports, and you'll see a huge crowd of people gawking around trying to figure out what's going on--these people are the police's next victims for harassment. Don't even get me started on the parking lots, where you will pay $10 or more to be treated suspiciously by people who clearly hate their job, and so on.

And yet people still go out because there is a desperation among OKC's young professionals to find a "scene" where they can hang out. The sane ones stay away from Bricktown and spend their time in a side district like Plaza, Western Ave, MidTown, Deep Deuce, etc--but those areas can probably get old quick.

Don't take my comments as defending the event that should be known as Terror for Cancer. Take my comments as directed toward the general problems of Bricktown nightlife and what exists in Bricktown for people such as my friends and I. Also take my comments as directed toward my apathy toward Bricktown's primary focus on being a "family friendly urban district." If you ask me it sounds like baloney.

Name your-hip-hop district is a good point. Name your-family-friendly district is an equally good point in my opinion. Bricktown, being here in OKC and the Heart of the Bible Belt, is always going to side with being family friendly if ever a conflict arises in finding that perfect mix. If you ask me, that's holding it back--I'd like to give something new a chance. I think that family friendly makes Bricktown stagnant, both developmentally and perception-wise, and Bricktown HAS indeed become rather stagnant in the last year or two. Nothing big has opened since the Hampton Inn. I think it's interesting how the Plaza District isn't anything family-oriented yet, last night, I saw a lot of kids running around with their parents who were very clearly getting drunk. Interesting to see if you ask me. Areas in other cities that are coming on strong seem to be capitalizing on other demographics than families...such as Blue Dome and the Brady Arts District in Tulsa. You won't find a kid's menu at McNellie's, but you will find a beer menu.

This is the compromise I propose: Let's just stop reinforcing EITHER and just be willing to see which group Bricktown naturally caters toward if allowed to. Let's get away with any official or unofficial things that keep the party scene at bay and attempt to proactively preserve Bricktown for families with small children. It's kind of like my planning philosophy, you don't have to spend billions to make a city urban, just tear down planning barriers towards urbanization and density that exist in all cities and you'll see a Houston-esque effect toward development, suburbanites happy, urbanites happy. Laissez faire needs to be invoked here.

dismayed, read my blog post today. I've never heard these kind of complaints from people who were visiting Bricktown on a Saturday afternoon.
Another interesting tidbit: unless one assumes that all of these people are lying about what happened, does it trouble anyone that instead of expressing remorse for what happened, those who participated are just angry that their event is in jeopardy?

Mike, I expected better out of you than a personal attack. I didn't make any of my responses personal. Perhaps you should do some soul-searching as well.

I went back and read what I wrote and I can see where it could have been taken as a personal attack. I didn't really mean it as such, but you're right. I edited the post. Sorry.

Cool! Civil discourse rules!

Steve all I know is that there are plenty of games on TV that last about 4 hours and bars in Bricktown that have some pretty awesome deals on beer during those games. I fail to see the logical difference. And for what it's worth the Pub Crawl was not free beer -- the cost was $40 per person for the event.

And yeah 2006 is about right, and you're correct it wasn't in the fenced in Reggae area it was outside on the street and down a ways. I'm glad to hear that things are a bit calmer now.

So what is the root issue here? Was criminal activity taking place? Was there vandalism? I recall large groups of friendly people, and I recall walking past at least two officers on Sheridan. I can't believe they wouldn't have been able to pick out anyone who was rowdy from those who were not... did they arrest anyone? How many people?

Actually dismayed, I must tell you the truth on 2006: cops always felt it was the combination of two nightclubs along East Sheridan that was to blame for the violence that summer, not Reggaefest.
Criminal activity? Read my last blog post, read my coverage.... the woman I spoke to last night feared she was going to be attacked. Ask the guy who was hospitalized. Ask the guy who had a beer poured on him as he passed under the canal bridge ...
I ask again... are all these people lying? And if not, where is the remorse from all the folks who participated?
Logging off now... getting tired, but thanks for a good discussion.

dismayed, read my blog post today. I've never heard these kind of complaints from people who were visiting Bricktown on a Saturday afternoon.
Another interesting tidbit: unless one assumes that all of these people are lying about what happened, does it trouble anyone that instead of expressing remorse for what happened, those who participated are just angry that their event is in jeopardy?

I'm not saying that you didn't hear these things. I just don't know how statistically significant what you have heard is. For all I know it could be anecdotal (e.g. maybe things like this just happen down there, I don't know).

Sure the whole thing is concerning, people shouldn't be doing bad things to one another at any time. I just don't understand why there is a push to ban something. Wouldn't you want to at least try to clean it up first? I mean heck as far as I can tell you identified the root cause -- give the OCPD a heads-up next time and get more folks down there on foot for the event. What logic drives a person to immediately jump past all of those hurdles and go straight for "ban it?"

Apparently this wasn't the first year they had problems. That and the binge drinking aspect. That was their logic.

I went back and read what I wrote and I can see where it could have been taken as a personal attack. I didn't really mean it as such, but you're right. I edited the post. Sorry.

Ok no biggie.

I just came across a few threads from other city forums about Crawl for Cancer. You should ALL check this thread out:

PUB Crawl for Cancer (http://forum.kcrag.com/index.php?topic=11439.0)
From the KC Rag forum.


I was there last year. It was mostly drunk obnoxious guys puking for cancer. I especially liked the drunk guy being tackled and handcuffed in the street by police. His friends were shouting "He's raising money for charity. Let him go."

That being said, if it raises lots of money for cancer research and no one is seriously hurt, let people fry their livers.

Bathrooms aren't a problem if you're a guy and you're drunk. The world is your bathroom.

In Houston the HPD even has a team that partakes in Crawl for Cancer:
Houston Crawl For Cancer | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Houston-Crawl-For-Cancer/56774882617#!/album.php?aid=174408&id=56774882617)

Austin looks to be having a lot of fun, but then again, that's Austin. This event seems to be made for Austin.
Austin Crawl for Cancer | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Austin-TX/Austin-Crawl-for-Cancer/24638730777#!/album.php?aid=121785&id=24638730777)

On a forum called NYC Midtown Lunch:
Pub Crawl for Cancer 3/27/10 | Page 2 | Miscellaneous | Midtown Lunch Forums (http://midtownlunch.com/forums/topic/pub-crawl-for-cancer-32710/page/2)


"Ding Ding Ding! Last year, it was all Coors light pitchers. Why do you think it's $40?"

$40 is a huge overcharge (considering the bars are making beer donations for the cause). Even for Coors. Do the math. 10 people on a team; 5 bars; 4 pitchers per bar. That's 20 pitchers, or 2 pitchers per person. So, you think $20 for a pitcher of Coors lite is reasonable? (OK, the t-shirt is worth a few bucks. But having to drink more Coors after the crawl is just punishment!) I'll donate directly instead--more money for charity, less personal suffering. (Coors Lite gives me a hangover headache *while I'm still drinking it*!!!!)

Columbus Underground forums
Crawl for Cancer Columbus Underground Messageboard (http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/crawl-for-cancer)

Apparently in Columbus, as a result of public pressure, the event is also giving out tokens for cab rides home. Good idea.

And to pull a ______, here's a link to an older thread on our own forum about the event:
http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/17468-bricktown-pub-crawl-cancer.html

Okay, I read your blog Steve and I guess I'm up to speed. Honestly there's still not a lot of detail other than the Bricktown Association making it really clear they're peeved that the event wasn't coordinated with them, and that they are not receiving any overhead funds (for security, etc.) from the admission charged by the Pub Crawl folks.

I'm sure the Association is doing this because they believe they are protecting their image of Bricktown or whatever. I have to wonder though if that PR will outweigh the bad PR that I can see in my minds eye hitting the front of The Lost Ogle tomorrow....

"BRICKTOWN ASSOCIATION WANTS YOU TO GET CANCER!!!11"

Well I for one would like to see the Crawl continue in OKC, but I agree that if there are some folks that are causing problems the issues need to be addressed. As the Crawl organizers say it isn't a competition and no one is required to drink anything. Many folks just donate their money for cancer and go along to meet new and interesting people and may actually only have one or two beers. But on the other hand we're talking really watered-down 3.2 domestic beer here, and unless you're a complete lightweight it would take gigantic amounts of beer to get you drunk on that. Someone who is throwing back their own pitcher like that should be easy to spot. The event organizers should have DJs or people walking around under the auspices of just having fun watching for this, and yeah there should probably be a greater police presence on the streets. Another suggestion would be that, although many groups such as mine were doing this on their own, perhaps the event organizers should require that each group of 10 have one person designated as a DD. Maybe give them a different colored shirt or a wrist-band or something that kind of puts them in charge of the group and keeps them from drinking. Anyway it seems to me like the event was a lot of fun and those folks who were rowdy could be addressed without banning the entire thing. But from what I read on Steve's Blog I guess that is already a done deal.

not a charity...

From their webiste....


Why isn't Crawl for Cancer, Inc. considered a charity?
Crawl for Cancer is a fundraising organization. Organizations that provide an expected product or service in return for money received cannot register as a public charity, also known as a 501(c)(3). The only alternative is a "for-profit" designation, even if the profits are donated to charity, as with Crawl for Cancer, Inc. Incidentally, 100% of Crawl for Cancer's profits go to charity.

How do I know if Crawl for Cancer is using its funds properly?
Since we aren't a public charity, the government does not make our financial information public. However, we have voluntarily made our prior year information available through the Better Business Bureau and will post our current year's information here when the annual returns are complete.

Steve if the Pub Crawl won't respond to you contact the BBB and see if they have any information on file. I'd be curious to know whether or not they have a balance sheet or anything like that.

A lot of things can happen before you arrive at "profits"...that is revealing...

...and why I am curious to know if they have submitted a balance sheet....

It is called fraud ...

I question their whole reasoning of not being a 501(c)(3) organization. They say it is because, "Organizations that provide an expected product or service in return for money received cannot register as a public charity." It's all in how you setup the organization, how you accept the funds, etc. There are many ways that organizations do exactly what the Crawl does and be a non-profit.

When a non-profit organization has a fundraiser, may of them offer a product. Candy bars, boxes of cookies, tickets to a benefit concert, any number of things.

To me, this looks like a slick way to avoid having the charity watchdogs on their case. They can come across as a "benefit organization" without having to file the disclosure documents for 501(c)(3) groups. They claim to give info to the Better Business Bureau. What??? That's not even the purpose of the BBB, they want them to act as a repository of financial information on private business? Which is what Crawl is - a business. They are trying to fly under the radar, in my opinion, and their excuse is lame when you just stop and think about other non-profits and what products and services they offer when fundraising.

Steve, I think you have a reason to be suspicious about their not returning calls and.....all of what I just wrote.

edit: I was just browsing some non-profit websites and came across levels of giving resulting in different products. For example, $25 or more the giver receives a certificate and a CD, $50 or more they get an additional DVD, to where finally if someone gives $1000 or more, they receive a small bronze statuette. This is just basic stuff.

Few points.
1. You can arrange any event based on binge drinking and it will be popular. IMHO the event is irresponsibly constructed to allow and condone this type of drinking. And if I were the charity, I would be very concerned that an event was being put together that condones this activity in their name, for their cause. This is morally irresponsible.

2. Pub Crawls, if properly put together and promoted can actually limit the amount of liquor it's participants take in, so as to not result in public drunken behavior that is a nuissance to the community.

3. The Bricktown Association should divorce itself from any activity that promotes this type of behavior. The BA is well aware of the fact that people should drink responsibly. Furthermore, the BA works hard to ensure the safety of the public by working closely with merchants and law enforcement officials alike. Simply because an event is held in Bricktown, doesn't mean the BA has to place its stamp of approval on it. And having said that, anyone planning an event doesn't necessarily need the approval of the BA either. However, it is more advantageous for merchants, event planners and promoters alike to work together to put on an event that is responsible and safe for the public.

Some things to note;
1. The Bricktown Association, to my knowledge, coordinates events with police but does not collect money for doing so. Instead, it is funded by member fees, advertising sponsorships and starting this year, the business improvement district.
2. Crawl for Cancer has not provided ANY financial information for the OKC events. Further, the one year of info it filed with BBB for 2008 is a very cursory summary and does not shed a lot of light into the finances. Crawl for Cancer only provided that info after it was delisted by BBB last year. It was re-listed after providing the 2008 figures but has once again lost its listing.
3. Dismayed, I have contacted BBB - and what you saw attached to my article on Friday (the 2008 info) is the only info they've ever provided.
4. Are we sure that fees paid by participants is the only source of income? I don't know - the for-profit Crawl for Cancer Inc. won't answer any questions.

Steve:

In your blog post, you had the following:


“All the funds we raise go to Ally’s House and the Brain Tumor Foundation”- David Tedford

I may have missed it somewhere but have these charities been contacted and what response did they give? Know Toby Keith is has a personal connection and has fundraisers for Ally's House, any response from him? Noticed in the sidebar to your Oklahoman story that Toby Keith's I love This Bar was conspicuously absent as a Participant. That seemed odd to me...


Participants in the 2010 Bricktown Crawl for Cancer
• Wormy Dog
• America’s Pub
• Drinkz
• JJ’s Alley
• Red Pin Bowling Lounge
• Bourbon Street Cafe
• Rok Bar
• Coyote Ugly
• Bricktown Brewery
• Sapphire
• Tapwerks
• Hampton Inn (offered discounted rates to participants)
• Colcord Hotel (offered discounted rates to participants)
• Science Museum Oklahoma (hosted distribution of shirts, registrations)

Bricktown said don't come back and the people organizing the Crawl said we won't. I guess I don't see why it contiues to linger.

It sucks that some poeple were out of line. When people act like idiots events get canceled.

I would never condone the behavoir of some of these people but personally I think this plays a lot into the bible belt aspect. We want to big a big time city with a great bar scene but we also want it to be "family-friendly". I understand the big beef is that it was during the day. I get that but I still don't really see having an entertainment district that caters to families during the day and "adults" at night.

CFC people should have done a better job with the security but I would also think we've gotten to the point that some drunk idiots wouldn't be a week-long story.

Larry, Ally's House is concerned this money may be "tainted," pointed out it's important to be transparent with finances, and the director said they probably will be disassociating themselves from the event.

No offense Steve, but this story has gotten drug out a bit. It seems the story has gotten personal with you and a few others.

I'm with Steve on this one. Crawl for Cancer is making this a bigger story than it needs to be by their stubborn silence. Seems more and more like they have something to hide, and when a "charitable" group is less than generous sharing financial information, it becomes an important story to protect unsuspecting donors from giving to a dubious organization.

I guess that I have always been skeptical of charities. It never surprises me to see non-profit organizations siphoning money or scamming donors. It is the world we live in.

It also doesn't surprise me that having daytime binge drinking events leads to lewd contact, harassment, indecent exposure, etc.

okclee, it's not personal. But when an organization like this refuses to answer questions, I make it my mission to try even harder to get at the answers. It's called sticking to a story.

You know if you took all the drinkers out of bricktown it would be a much less travelled area.

it's a for profit organization, not a non-profit, that sends "profits" to charities.
As to what constitutes profits, and what goes to recruiting, fundraising, advertising, merchandise, etc., etc., etc., well, they aren't an nfp, so probably the lion's share.

Not so different from the phone operators who raise funds for troopers, churches, kids, etc., but consume the lion's share of what's raised in costs, salaries, etc.

Did not participate, won't miss it not being there. Don't send my $$ to boiler room ops either. Just me. Others may see their mileage vary.

I think it's a shame that it's been effectively canceled. Great money-maker for those involved.

Any time you're trying to sell binge drinking, though, public entities are going to have a tough time biting.

Although I will say it's weird the local people won't get back with Steve. Did they pocket $$$ for being local organizers? Not that there's anything wrong with that really...

The problem was that it put the Bricktown “nightlife” crowd there during the day and a couple families witnessed what otherwise happens EVERY Thursday, Friday, and Saturday night after dark. Drinking and baboonery go hand in hand. You can’t have one without the other. Bricktown needs to define itself and clearly define what it will tolerate. Yeah it sucks that a few idiots ruined it for everyone. That’s always how things go down, but these occurrences happen OFTEN in Bricktown. The Pub Crawl was a Saturday afternoon and it rained that morning. I was there; trust me, Bricktown was NOT that busy other than the Pub Crawl. So they are going to cancel a charity event based on what a couple of families saw? I wish some people would quit snubbing their noses to the idea of drinking and the bar atmosphere because that’s what half of Bricktown consists of, and if you want to shove them away and make Bricktown a “Family Only” atmosphere like the message they have conveyed by cancelling future Pub Crawls then the consumers will go elsewhere.

Would be interesting to see what the Brewers have to say about this.

Maybe bars are Bricktown’s necessary evil..

The problem was that it put the Bricktown “nightlife” crowd there during the day and a couple families witnessed what otherwise happens EVERY Thursday, Friday, and Saturday night after dark. Drinking and baboonery go hand in hand. You can’t have one without the other. Bricktown needs to define itself and clearly define what it will tolerate. Yeah it sucks that a few idiots ruined it for everyone. That’s always how things go down, but these occurrences happen OFTEN in Bricktown. The Pub Crawl was a Saturday afternoon and it rained that morning. I was there; trust me, Bricktown was NOT that busy other than the Pub Crawl. So they are going to cancel a charity event based on what a couple of families saw? I wish some people would quit snubbing their noses to the idea of drinking and the bar atmosphere because that’s what half of Bricktown consists of, and if you want to shove them away and make Bricktown a “Family Only” atmosphere like the message they have conveyed by cancelling future Pub Crawls then the consumers will go elsewhere.

Would be interesting to see what the Brewers have to say about this.

Maybe bars are Bricktown’s necessary evil..

Not even evil. I'm not sure why the offenders weren't treated brusquely by Nonna's (et al.) and arrested. Quick, easy, done.

The pub crawl made plenty of money for Bricktown. And for a thriving Bricktown, we need ALL of it.

I will say this- Bricktown is lucky that most of our other "districts" that are drinking districts aren't walkable. Very few people looking just for dfrinks would head down there. Imagine if the N. Western/Classen area were all walkable?

What I'm trying to ask here is: should the crawl for cancer folks have any remorse for what has been reported?

What's interesting in this entire discussion, and forgive me if I've said this, is that there are plenty of Crawl for Cancer participants complaining about criticism of some of the bad behavior associated with this event, but no remorse expressed.

Steve, that is ridiculous. The very first post in this thread is stlokc saying sexual harrassment, public intox, etc. is never acceptable, followed by Spartan saying basically bad behavior such as this is never okay but hey how about these issues in favor of the C4C, followed by me saying basically the same thing and then listing half a dozen suggestions that the group might consider implementing to help curb that, followed by a somewhat pro C4C post from OSUFan that starts out with condemnation of the behavior of those you mentioned on your blog, and so on.

I just don't see how you can say that. Of course that behavior is terrible and those folks involved should have been either asked to leave or arrested if they were causing public disturbances. But I simply don't see how that effects the entire organization.

Did you cover the Tea Party rallies? Are you of the opinion that the entire party should be disbanded and no further public gatherings conducted because of the actions of a very few? If not, please explain to me the logical difference between this example and where you seem to be headed with this Pub Crawl discussion?

Why are you making the assumption that everyone who went to the pub crawl participates in unruly behavior in public, or at the very least doesn't think twice about people who do behave this way nor their consequences? Why would you make this statement? What are you trying to accomplish? Do you not see this as a blanket statement? As a reporter, do you not feel that blanket statements such as this are generally biased in their application?

Will you be writing about and performing as in-depth an investigation on the Mayfair benefit even for Mina the orphan this weekend?

There probably won't be any drinking, but they will be auctioning off tickets and gift certificates to place where you *can* drink and where people *might* get unruly..

I don't see any sort of financial information on the site for it stating how much money is raised and an expense report showing where the money actually went..

Plus, have you ever been to one of these garage sale events at 7 in the morning? I bet it's safer in Bricktown 5 hours earlier..