development
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|address= 2401 NW 23rd (http://g.co/maps/hmvs5)
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|finish=1964
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|sq. feet= 659,041
|acerage= 44.483
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|image=http://www.okctalk.com/images/wikiphotos/shepherd1.jpg
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Information & Latest News

11/5/64: Official grand opening for the mall
Early 1964: Kerr's and JC Penney open (JCP promptly closed their downtown location)
Tenants

Advanced Science & Tech
Aging Services Division
APS Healthcare Inc
Astec Charter Middle School
ATI Career Training Center
B & M Cleaners & Gifts
Beijing Chinese Restaurant
Division of Vocational Rehabili...
Dizzy's
Fire Marshal Office
Genuine Care
H&R Block
Hewlett-Packard
Horse Racing Commission
Inspector General Office
Insurance Department Life Acc...
Insurance Department Property...
Las Morenas Cafe
Midland Mortgage
Oddc
Office of Disabaility Concerns
Ok State Department-Insurance
Oklahoma Construction Industry
Oklahoma Federal Credit Union
Oklahoma State Board of Cosm...
Oklahoma State Board of Exa...
Pizzeria & More
Rehabilitation Services
Shepherd Mall Family Dentistry
State of Oklahoma: Wic Service
Subway
Touch Tel Wireless
TSR Inc
US Post Office
US Social Security Admin.
Vta Oklahoma City Llc


Links
County Assessor Record (http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/AN-R.asp?ACCOUNTNO=R107570230)
Gallery

Your hopes, maybe.

Shepard Mall died a long time ago as a retail location. However, it has been re-used quite effectively in it's present state.

You've become quite the antagonist as of late. No, many of us were hoping to see it revived (like the areas around it have) into a new development like a mixed-use development or a transit oriented development. Heaven-forbid we ever get mass transit going down what is arguably OKC's most vital street (NW 23rd) that it be revived and play a crucial role in the urban redevelopment. That area is RIPE with potential. Sorry to hear someone in your biz has no higher hopes than to see it be state offices and storage units along with a Walmart Neighborhood market and a few strip center stores.

This is a horrible idea. Instant slum waiting to happen. I hope someone on the city council realizes this type of development brings down everything around it. I don't mind that the mall is what it is today because it employs hundreds if not into the thousands but its not the place for a bunch of ****ty self-storage units.

An underutilized all but vacant chunk of asphalt/crete will become a more utilized, revenue generating bit of property that meets a need for both consumer and commercial alike. Sounds like in-fill to me.

Not fancy in-fill by any stretch of the imagination, but it seems a far better use than that dead parking space has seen in many a year.

Yes, but it's LOST POTENTIAL. Too bad too many in this city have the mentality of settling for less than potential, and the same sheep complain about our City and how much it sucks.

To a developer bent on making a buck it is, to those who live nearby and have to look at it, it's garbage. This would have made a magnificent life-style center redevelopment that would have improved the entire section of the city that has such great potential. This will ruin that possibility and bring it more in line with May Avenue or SW 29th. Just what we need-more low quality development. Mini-storage units should be in industrial areas, not residential.

You've become quite the antagonist as of late. No, many of us were hoping to see it revived (like the areas around it have) into a new development like a mixed-use development or a transit oriented development. Heaven-forbid we ever get mass transit going down what is arguably OKC's most vital street (NW 23rd) that it be revived and play a crucial role in the urban redevelopment. That area is RIPE with potential. Sorry to hear someone in your biz has no higher hopes than to see it be state offices and storage units along with a Walmart Neighborhood market and a few strip center stores.

I didn't say I am opposed to any of that. But let's be rational here.

Its not like Shepard mall is sitting empty. It’s being used quite effectively, just not the way we would prefer.

A storage unit complex is obviously a better use than the weed-strewn empty lot that exists now. It’s not like it is the proverbial nail in the coffin for redevelopment of the mall property. If you look up the site on google earth, you will see what a small portion of the mall area that 5.1 acres actually covers. Actually, in terms of land-use, that is the ideal location for a less-than-desirable occupancy (like the apartment complex next door). It’s tucked away on a non-important piece of land and in NO WAY affects the potential for redevelopment.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s225/CuatrodeMayo/shepard.jpg

So it would better for it to remain an unused empty parking splotch for another umpteen years?

For whatever reason, no one has stepped forward to develop something more elegant in that location. Given the lack of interest over the years, perhaps the storage bunkers are the actual potential of the soon to be former parking spaces.

And as it's the corner of a former retail turned office complex and school, and zoned C-3, it's not exactly residential turf.

So it would better for it to remain an unused empty parking splotch for another umpteen years?

For whatever reason, no one has stepped forward to develop something more elegant in that location. Given the lack of interest over the years, perhaps the storage bunkers are the actual potential of the soon to be former parking spaces.

And as it's the corner of a former retail turned office complex and school, and zoned C-3, it's not exactly residential turf.

We're not arguing the zoning but the fact is there is a nice apartment complex to the north, houses directly next door to the east and houses a couple of hundred feet to the west. Yes, its better to be undeveloped than to put in the wrong thing and yes, a mini-storage can absolutely stop a far better redevelopment project from taking shape. Not saying it WILL, but it can.

The Streets at Southglenn is a redeveloped shopping mall about a mile from my Denver house. The area surrounding this is very similar to the demographics of the area around Shepherd Mall. This company has redeveloped 3 different 60's - 70's era malls around Denver VERY successfully. This is what should be put there, not a bunch of low-rent mini-storages. God! People need to think bigger than this!

Alberta Development Partners : The Places : The Streets at SouthGlenn (http://www.albdev.com/the-places/index.aspx?pageID=4)

(click on the developments on the left of the screen to see each project - 3 of which were redeveloped from situations very similar to what is now at Shepherd Mall._

I have to imagine this is pretty bad for a neighborhood already, for the most part(exception of Cleveland), teetering on the brink.

The owners of the land are obviously not in business to lose money or buy land just to let it sit. If no one has come forward with interest in the property, how can you blame them for selling a small piece of the property for profit? Personally, I thank them for not bulldozing the whole place and turning it into a mega-storage facility!

If a group of people are interested in preserving pieces of property within the city (ones which no one else has shown interest in), perhaps those folks should step forward and buy the property with their money. Otherwise, don't blame the owners for doing what they have to do to stay in business.

This is where Okc is to blame.

We need more changes to our zoning regulations. A storage facility should be under some kind of special zoning.

It is quite likely there is nothing wrong with it or out of line. Its just a very sad and very unfortunate case of a real underutilization of a prime piece of land that could go a long way in rejuvinating a very promising part of the city.

The city itself should have been taking the lead on trying to make this parcel a prime redevelopment project and searching for a developer such as the one on my link. I don't blame the property owners but it is small-minded thinking.

On other threads people have complained about the lack of certain retail outlets in the city and it has been stated clearly that one of the reasons these retailers are not in OKC is due to a lack of suitable space. This type of redevelopment would provide that suitable space. Instead we get orange-roofed, tin sided mini-storages. Damn quality, just make a buck.

Alberta Development Partners : The Places : The Streets at SouthGlenn (http://www.albdev.com/the-places/index.aspx?pageID=4)

(click on the developments on the left of the screen to see each project - 3 of which were redeveloped from situations very similar to what is now at Shepherd Mall._

It is a shame that OKC has such a hard time pulling off a development like that. Every city I travel to has multiple places like that but narry a one in OKC.

You know, I feel its possible people on this thread were at least partially responsible for Whole Foods coming here. Why would it not be possible for people on this thread to bring this type of idea to their city councilmen(women)? I am sending an email to mine today because this mini-storage idea is so small minded for such a promising piece of land.

When I say that the demographics surrounding 2 specific sites that were redeveloped in Denver are very similar to the area around Shepherd Mall, they are very similar. No one can say the area can't support it. It's like Field of Draems, if a significant, high-quality development is built, people will come.

This is terrible. If I lived in that neighborhood to the North I would be going ballistic right now. What an awful idea.

The city itself should have been taking the lead on trying to make this parcel a prime redevelopment project and searching for a developer such as the one on my link. I don't blame the property owners but it is small-minded thinking.

Bingo. We need to get our planners' focus to extend beyond the inner core. We need to be proactive. There will always be developers with little imagination trying to turn a quick buck. Developing prime parcels of land should be an honor, and the ideas should be solid and completely vetted. No more Belle Isles.

Storage is ***NOT*** a higher and better use for this land. Vacant still has potential, storage means an eyesore waiting to happen. Worse yet, storage facilities have long lifespans and relatively high retail costs/acre, meaning that this land will be locked up essentially forever.

Storage should be a use permitted on review, with required hearings before the Planning Commission and City Council. Better yet, it should not be allowed at all in commercial areas, instead being reserved for industrual zoning.

It's difficult not to see where Metro is coming from; storage units obviously don't add to the neighborhood as senior housing and mixed use would have.

I think we ought to direct our questions to Councilman Sam Bowman. Also, did this not need approval by the City Council because there was no zoning change? I guess this is what comes from free enterprise...

Your hopes, maybe.

Shepard Mall died a long time ago as a retail location. However, it has been re-used quite effectively in it's present state.

Cuatro is right on. I find it quite remarkable that Shepard was able to transform itself several years ago into an office complex from a mall and not just end up like Heritage Park. And now you all have some dream that this dead mall will be revived again. Sorry, just isnt going to happen, and if it did, everyone would be complaining about the same ol' same ol' tenants that it might attract. Its not a prime location for quality and upscale tenants.


I have to imagine this is pretty bad for a neighborhood already, for the most part(exception of Cleveland), teetering on the brink.

Im having a hard time deciphering what you are getting at. That the neighborhoods around it are in decline?

Im having a hard time deciphering what you are getting at. That the neighborhoods around it are in decline?

Yes. Most of them.

The apartments at 30th & Villa did very well at the beginning... I wonder how their occupancy rate has been of late.

Cuatro is right on. I find it quite remarkable that Shepard was able to transform itself several years ago into an office complex from a mall and not just end up like Heritage Park. And now you all have some dream that this dead mall will be revived again. Sorry, just isnt going to happen, and if it did, everyone would be complaining about the same ol' same ol' tenants that it might attract. Its not a prime location for quality and upscale tenants.



Im having a hard time deciphering what you are getting at. That the neighborhoods around it are in decline?

I think you're missing it, we're not wanting to see Shepard Mall itself revived, it's course is done, FYI Farmers is moving out soon once their new building is done. We're wanting to see it as transit oriented development, similar to what is done in Portland or Denver. Basically tear down the old mall, build a new TOD, apartments/condos/new retail building/lifestyle center type complex. It is RIPE with the same potential as a poster pointed out above with the example in Denver.

Yes. Most of them.

I disagree.

Crestwood -- coming back

The neighborhood just to the north -- stable and improving

Cleveland -- doing fine

The point is quality retail development would spur even greater improvement in the surrounding neighborhoods.

This is a pitiful development.

Yes. Most of them.

You don't get out much. Cleveland (directly west) and Shepherd Historic (directly East) both have increasing property values and both are really, really, nice, safe inner city 'hoods. Completely underrated. I know, I moved from Edmond to live there. Haven't ever missed Edmond and my drive to work can't really be called a commute. Having that commute time back and living in a friendly, peaceful (surprisingly!), getting better all the time neighborhood are all things that have combined to make me wonder if I could ever move back to the suburbs.

Here's hoping they are required to put up a decent looking barrier type fence on the Villa side. Shep 'Hood has fought successfully to have the mall and other tenants keep the barrier fence to the east and south in repair in order have that island.

Fwiw, the Shep Neighborhood Association fought the PUD for the Senior housing on two different occasions, thinking it would result in section 8 type tenants. Of course, why they weren't looking, someone came in and bought those dilapidated crack house apts on Penn (26th/27th) and re-opened them.

The shame of it is really in the zoning regs. I agree with the poster who says this is a failure of the city. It's hard to create and maintain (or reclaim in this case), nice inner city neighborhoods when the city allows industrial type projects to be inter-mixed with housing.

You give up some things with an older, historic home. But, you also gain a lot of things as well. Not knocking the choices people make, but it is definitely a fact that those two 'hoods have increasing property values--even in the past two years.

I should have pointed out in my post that I had it wrong. It was indeed the Shepherd Neighborhood -- to the east -- that is improving, along with Cleveland, Crestwood, Venice, etc. Shepherd is a nice neighborhood. Kind of hidden away. My guess is a lot of folks on this forum have never seen it.

City of OKC is pathetic when it comes to even allowing development like this. Down here in Norman, and up in Calgary, I am pretty sure something like this would never get approved in the middle of a historic, well-established neighborhood. Shepherd is right across Villa, and there are some well-restored homes behind Shepherd Mall, too.

It's not QUITE the concentration of excellent neighborhoods that surround Classen and 23rd and 36th and Walker in all directions, but it's maybe third behind those two. Villa and Penn has potential to gain more of a rep as a center of good, quality historic neighborhoods. And what you see is low quality strip malls and industrial development as if this is Del City or something.

City of OKC is pathetic when it comes to even allowing development like this. Down here in Norman, and up in Calgary, I am pretty sure something like this would never get approved in the middle of a historic, well-established neighborhood. Shepherd is right across Villa, and there are some well-restored homes behind Shepherd Mall, too.

Cleveland is across Villa, to the west. Shepherd Historic is behind the old mall.

That's right. Since I got Shepherd wrong, maybe that changes things... Shepherd, unlike nearby Cleveland or Venice, is actually a national historic district and protected under that designation. Does this industrial use border that district?

I just sent an email to Okc Ward 2 Councilman Sam Bowman.

City of Oklahoma City | City Council (http://www.okc.gov/council/index.html)

Shepard is a great neighborhood and Im guessing it has had some of the highest property value increases the last few years. Cleveland is another good neighborhood, love some of the homes there. Venice, just north of Cleveland is another fairly solid hood. These neighborhoods are definitely not on the decline. Even the dodgey neighborhood to north of 30th doesnt seem to be getting worse, seems stable.

Who are all these people using storage units?!? The average home size in Oklahoma and America is pretty huge - what do all of these people own?!

Who are all these people using storage units?!? The average home size in Oklahoma and America is pretty huge - what do all of these people own?!

Where else can you put the stuff that won't fit in the garage and spare bedroom?

Where better to store your meth lab...

In Plano, Frisco, McKinney, there are these storage places (well disguised) all over the place. Interesting mix of neighborhood's, and a 'neighborhood's own retail area here, and it all seems to mesh well. Hardly ever have to go more than a mile or so for whatever you need. If its nicely done, should fit well there where they say and you could still use the mall as is. Agreed the last time I was through there things were looking up, a little further south, I couldn't believe 10th and 16th street, west of Classen...more work to do, but things looking up !

I think you're missing it, we're not wanting to see Shepard Mall itself revived, it's course is done, FYI Farmers is moving out soon once their new building is done. We're wanting to see it as transit oriented development, similar to what is done in Portland or Denver. Basically tear down the old mall, build a new TOD, apartments/condos/new retail building/lifestyle center type complex. It is RIPE with the same potential as a poster pointed out above with the example in Denver.

Who is this group of we and where is this development plan that you mention? Did your development group submit a bid for the property? I see a lot of wants, but for someone with no ownership or financial interests in the property you are sure asking for too much.

You don't get out much. Cleveland (directly west) and Shepherd Historic (directly East) both have increasing property values and both are really, really, nice, safe inner city 'hoods. Completely underrated.

You're right - what I meant was that the neighborhood right around that property isn't the best, particularly along villa up to 36th and further north. Copperfield isn't too bad but there are at least a couple of mid-sized multifamily properties that are not particularly great. If butting this up against Copperfield helps cause that complex to go down, it's taking that neighborhood with it. Also, Farmers Insurance is getting ready to vacate the mall, and they are by far its largest tenant.

AOL left a few years ago.

Sam Bowman is my councilman and I am pretty sure he lives in the Venice neighborhood. I have looked at a few homes around there and some of them are very nice. I am not quite willing to say that this will be the death knell for these neighborhoods. I drove by the area in question and it does seem to be a small area compared to the mall space in general. I am not saying that this will be a good thing either but it doesn't necessarily have to be horrid either.

I live in crestwood and this is depressing....

Hmm. It's not ideal, but how exactly does a self-storage complex make the area rundown?

I think, to answer jbrown84, it's the lack of vision -- and seemingly, the lack of care for the improvement of the area -- that zoning a prime inner-city retail area for a crappy storage yard represents. It's not as if there's a lack of available land for storage yards in this town.

It's great that we all recognize the massive improvement this city has made in the last ten years, but things like this are still a problem. So much is left to be done to improve inner-city OKC (not to mention the improvements that need to be made in neighborhoods in the outer loop).

I think storage sheds would be industrial use, basically a warehouse, for all intents and purposes despite that zoning may say differently and typically you want to avoid adding MORE industrial uses in districts you want to revive. It's pretty bad.

I think you're missing it, we're not wanting to see Shepard Mall itself revived, it's course is done, FYI Farmers is moving out soon once their new building is done. We're wanting to see it as transit oriented development, similar to what is done in Portland or Denver. Basically tear down the old mall, build a new TOD, apartments/condos/new retail building/lifestyle center type complex. It is RIPE with the same potential as a poster pointed out above with the example in Denver.

You keep talking like this is a run down underused area but it's not. There are a lot of places that would benefit more from being torn down and redeveloped than Shepard Mall. I had to go there recently to the Social Security Office and had difficulty finding parking. The inside of the mall area was almost as full as when I used to go there shopping and it seems to be very well maintained.

I think storage sheds would be industrial use, basically a warehouse, for all intents and purposes despite that zoning may say differently and typically you want to avoid adding MORE industrial uses in districts you want to revive. It's pretty bad.
It depends on how it is built, if it is like the one traditionally around OKC where you can pull your car up to the door, the it would probably be zoned an industrial classification. Most of the ones built here in recent years are the multi-story enclosed and climate controlled variety that look a bit more like a regular building, I guess something more like the U-Haul storage building in Bricktown. They can be done in a nice way if the owners are held to a higher standard which I think should be done in that area.

Here is one that is along North Mopac.
http://austin-storagedepot.com/defaul3.jpg

We all know how this will be built. After all this is Okc, cheaper the better.

I think the slapping of foreheads and gnashing of toothies in this thread makes about as much sense as the groaning and carrying on on the WF thread as to whether that store is 35 or 40 thousand sf. That is to say, a whole lot about not all that much.

Had someone been striving to develop a grand plan on this empty corner of parking and they got their legs cut out from under them for a self storage, that's one thing. But for a new business outlet to replace an all but abandoned bit of asphalt, and do so in a way that would still permit some grand design, someday, even buffer some new grand design from a (likely) then aged apartment complex, just doesn't seem near on so terrible as some make it out to be.

Who knows, it might even be one of the attractive versions. Haven't seen any plans, but the newer ones I have seen go up certainly haven't been the self storage barns of my youth.

We all know how this will be built. After all this is Okc, cheaper the better.

We have a winner.

You keep talking like this is a run down underused area but it's not. There are a lot of places that would benefit more from being torn down and redeveloped than Shepard Mall. I had to go there recently to the Social Security Office and had difficulty finding parking. The inside of the mall area was almost as full as when I used to go there shopping and it seems to be very well maintained.

ljbab, the mall itself isn't the concern on this thread, its the mini storage that is apparently being proposed on the property to the north of the old mall next to the apartments on 30th. With discussions that we have had on other threads about the lack of true quality retail in the inner part of OKC and why many respected national chains seem to skip OKC, having suitable retail space is one of the major reasons.

Go back on this thread and look at my post #10 and the link. I recently moved back here from Denver and am moving back due to business shortly but there are 2 very similar 1960's & 1970's mall redevelopments that have been very successful in Denver in areas that are VERY similar to Shepherd Mall demographically.

The link for Alberta Redevelopment has renditions and photographs of both the Streets at Southglenn that opened about 6 months ago within a mile of my Denver house and then the Belmar Redevelopment (which is even more successful on West Colfax (I couldn't find any good photos but its similar to Southglenn).

I think our objection is that mini-storages are "low-rent" and not the best and highest use of the real estate. Shepherd Mall is a prime large scale redevelopment site and the mini-storage will badly take away from the potential for that area - a quality redevelopment could greatly improve the quality of that segment of the city.

We all know how this will be built. After all this is Okc, cheaper the better.

We have a winner.
...and that isn't going to change until people who want things done better hold the cities and developers feet to the fire.

Do you really think developers here in Austin do things nicer out of the goodness of their hearts? No way....as someone who works with developers all the time most only do better than the minimum because they have to. The reasons can vary, sometimes it is because of design/community standards, sometimes it is marketing driven only rarely is it driven by a developer who wants to do something exceptional. You can find plenty of the same type of crappy development that OKC has that was built before the community decided to push the city council and planning commission to change, sitting around whining on the internet isn't going to fix the problem that OKC has.

If you want something better than the "norm" then push the powers that be for change. It may be happen on this project, nothing happens immediately. It didn't here, it was a pretty long process but the sooner that the public starts demanding better the earlier that it will happen.


I think our objection is that mini-storages are "low-rent" and not the best and highest use of the real estate. Shepherd Mall is a prime large scale redevelopment site and the mini-storage will badly take away from the potential for that area - a quality redevelopment could greatly improve the quality of that segment of the city.
The saving grace is that most construction nowadays is of a temporary nature, when it becomes cost effective in the future to tear that down to put up something of a different use there then it will happen. I am surprised at what gets torn down here, in Dallas, Houston and San Antonio and what it gets replaced with but evidently the pro forma was good enough to convince someone to agree to it and finance it. As the Sandridge situation shows, nothing is permanent.

LIke OKCLee, I too, emailed my councilman to voice my opposition. THough I imagine this type of development is allowed as commercial development, it seems much more suitable for light industrial. Besides the low-rent aspect, the "small-thinking" aspect and destruction of a potentially wonderful redevelopment opportunity, it just doesnt seem appropriate bounded by residential on 3 sides - especially if one, as was stated in an earlier post on here, is an historic district.

I urge anyone else who has doubts about this to do the same. You got a lot of press and may make a difference with Sandridge so you might have success here, too.

ljbab, the mall itself isn't the concern on this thread, its the mini storage that is apparently being proposed on the property to the north of the old mall next to the apartments on 30th. With discussions that we have had on other threads about the lack of true quality retail in the inner part of OKC and why many respected national chains seem to skip OKC, having suitable retail space is one of the major reasons.

Go back on this thread and look at my post #10 and the link. I recently moved back here from Denver and am moving back due to business shortly but there are 2 very similar 1960's & 1970's mall redevelopments that have been very successful in Denver in areas that are VERY similar to Shepherd Mall demographically.

The link for Alberta Redevelopment has renditions and photographs of both the Streets at Southglenn that opened about 6 months ago within a mile of my Denver house and then the Belmar Redevelopment (which is even more successful on West Colfax (I couldn't find any good photos but its similar to Southglenn).

I think our objection is that mini-storages are "low-rent" and not the best and highest use of the real estate. Shepherd Mall is a prime large scale redevelopment site and the mini-storage will badly take away from the potential for that area - a quality redevelopment could greatly improve the quality of that segment of the city.

Mug, I'm not arguing in favor of the mini-storage at all. I'm just saying that the current use for the mall works well and there are probably other areas that need redevelopment more that could be utilized for the type of development you're hoping for.

skid-skad

I drove by this site the other day and it's really out of the way. I just don't think it's a prime site for much else besides this...

I drove by this site the other day and it's really out of the way. I just don't think it's a prime site for much else besides this...

Which might at least partially explain why no one, in years upon years, saw fit to try any serious attempt for a real use for the specific plot in question except weed strewn excess parking.

It's not that I don't see other uses that maybe coulda, shoulda be set to the plot, it's just I don't see where anyone, except the self storage folks, tip-toed anywhere close to the 'gonna do it' stage of doing something with the soon to be former parking lot.

Perhaps the group is a group that builds nice units. One can hope.

If it were on 23rd, that would be different.

Well...we have completed the construction of Phase 1 of this storage facility...would love to have the feedback from the many detractors here regarding our architecture and schemes used to dovetail (as best as possible) a new facility into an historic area...

My comments are it's a waste of prime land, a TOD would be much more suitable