The steering committee for the Myriad Gardens redevelopment is working with a nationally-recognized consulting group who are experts in restaurant market and retail analysis for cultural institutions.

They are here this week on a site visit to conduct research about potential new restaurant and retail operations.

While they will be conducting more formalized market research later on, I offered to do some informal opinion-gathering here, as I know you all appreciate the opportunity to chime in on things, especially as they relate to downtown matters.

To that end, please offer your opinion on the following:

1. How to you envision the Gardens cafe? (located adjacent to the proposed Children's Garden, next to the current activity plaza overlooking the water stage.)

Talk about the type of food and beverage you see served there, potential hours of operation, seasons open, decor, type of service, etc.
Are there any other cafes or restaurants you see this particular operation should pattern itself after?
How would you feel about a national coffee house chain coming in to operate?

************

2. How do you envision the RESTAURANT for the Gardens?

Discuss the following:

Types of menu options available - general "style" of food
Dress code
Hours of Operation (Lunch, Dinner, Sunday Bruch?)
Should a limited dinner menu be offered for large event nights (concerts, sporting events at Ford Center, etc)
Are there any restaurant concepts (local or outside of OKC) that you could see working in this space?
In short, what type of restaurant would most attract you for a) lunch or b) dinner.


The restaurant will be located on the EAST side of the gardens at about the north-south midpoint. The proposed "all seasons plaza" with the ice skating rink will be adjacent to it to the north.

**********

I will be sharing these responses to the consulting team, so any serious thoughts you have on this will be most welcome. At this juncture, the committee has not made any specific decisions about the restaurant, concept, etc., although they have cited a preference for local ownership, if feasible.

OK, commence discussion in 1...2...3...

Go with the best Shake Shack...
Shake Shack (http://shakeshack.com/)

At this juncture, the committee has not made any specific decisions about the restaurant, concept, etc., although they have cited a preference for local ownership, if feasible.

Hi FritterGirl, Would this include local ownership of a franchise?

Gardens make me think of light food. Salads, perhaps California Pizza kitchen type pizzas, a few sandwiches (Wild Fork in Tulsa has a great prime rib sandwich on french bread with grilled onions and cheese), smoothies, flavored teas.

Dress code: If you want tourists, you can't be too picky about dress. I'd say casual, i.e. shirt and shoes required.

Hours: Lunch, Sunday brunch. Dinner would be nice, but not necessary.

Yes, a limited menu for large night events is an excellent idea

Restaurants that would work: I think it should be local, not a chain, although as I suggested, California Pizza kitchen has the type of menu I envision. I'd get someone from the Good Egg group to run it if you could interest them. Actually, Cheevers would be awesome in that location.

Hi FritterGirl, Would this include local ownership of a franchise?
Possibly. What we're tyring to find is what would be the best "fit" for the Gardens in terms of price point, style and food offerings.

Options are still being weighed. I think when I say preference for local ownership, we'd prefer a Cheever's type place with local flair versus a chain such as Olive Garden or something of that nature. So a local "chain" or franchise may fit, but it really depends upon what that franchise was. I think they are trying to stay away from national corporate models for the restaurant, if possible.

I'm trying to keep my opinion as well as other specific discussion I've been privy to out of this so we can get feedback without giving too much about what the committee may or may not be looking at at this time. In all seriousness, all but the most inane ideas are pretty well on the table.

Hardest challenge is to find something that might appeal to downtown suit-and-tie workers during the day and basketball game/concert goers at night.

Cafe and Restaurant, while stylistically may be similar, will be very different in their offerings.

Steve - that Shake Shack looks shweet and yummy!

Possibly. What we're tyring to find is what would be the best "fit" for the Gardens in terms of price point, style and food offerings.

Options are still being weighed. I think when I say preference for local ownership, we'd prefer a Cheever's type place with local flair versus a chain such as Olive Garden or something of that nature. So a local "chain" or franchise may fit, but it really depends upon what that franchise was. I think they are trying to stay away from national corporate models for the restaurant, if possible.

I'm trying to keep my opinion as well as other specific discussion I've been privy to out of this so we can get feedback without giving too much about what the committee may or may not be looking at at this time. In all seriousness, all but the most inane ideas are pretty well on the table.

Hardest challenge is to find something that might appeal to downtown suit-and-tie workers during the day and basketball game/concert goers at night.

Cafe and Restaurant, while stylistically may be similar, will be very different in their offerings.

Steve - that Shake Shack looks shweet and yummy!

I asked about local ownership of a franchised chain operation because sometimes a city can look too "small" when visitors can't find restaurants that are in their "comfort zones." Aren't we all guilty at one time or another of going to a strange city and seeing a TGIFriday's (just an example) and walking in because we know what to expect, wide variety of food and we feel we know it - no matter where it is? Like I said, it's in our "comfort zone." Right now, downtown needs some restaurants that tourists and natives alike can feel comfortable knowing what they're getting. That's the advantage of a chain, and if it's locally-owned, the money still stays here.

The restaurants at the downtown library and state museum are locally owned.
Not impressed. Should ownership trump quality as the determining factor? Not saying you should go for an average chain restaurant.
But if you were to get Shake Shack interested and turned it down out of hand in favor of an untested local, I'll be totally bewildered.

The restaurants at the downtown library and state museum are locally owned.
Not impressed. Should ownership trump quality as the determining factor?

No, it certainly should not trump it, but there are several LOCAL ownership groups who provide quality dining experiences throughout the metro and most on these boards are very well acquainted with them. Let's not parse nips. :wink:

If we're going with a chain, I'll then say California Pizza Kitchen. Below is a link to their menu. They've got one in Omaha. Omaha seems to have everything I want.

Menu items, catering and beverages | California Pizza Kitchen (http://www.cpk.com/menu/)

If we're going with a chain, I'll then say California Pizza Kitchen. Below is a link to their menu. They've got one in Omaha. Omaha seems to have everything I want.

Menu items, catering and beverages | California Pizza Kitchen (http://www.cpk.com/menu/)

Which is my point. You know these places. When they're not here....it's glaring. Especially to visitors. Sorry, FritterGirl, not to get too far off your subject, but this is a serious question to consider to answer the questions in your original post.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that local government doesn't have a great track record in attracting "great" local operators for eateries in publicly owned facilities.

Mike and Steve, points well taken. Carry on...

On the other hand, if the location and the restaurant are charming, people will want to eat there, even if they don't recognize the name. You put the menu out where people can read it and if it interests them, they'll try it.

Republic2 at MBG

Steve, you don't like the Art Museum Cafe? I think it's excellent. I've never eaten at the library.

State Musuem Betts. Not the Art Museum Cafe.

Ah yes, I misread. Sorry.

1. How to you envision the Gardens cafe? (located adjacent to the proposed Children's Garden, next to the current activity plaza overlooking the water stage.)
Talk about the type of food and beverage you see served there, potential hours of operation, seasons open, decor, type of service, etc.
Are there any other cafes or restaurants you see this particular operation should pattern itself after?
How would you feel about a national coffee house chain coming in to operate?

1. Type of restaurant - casual but with a broad choice of food from burgers up to steaks and seafood. Great bar and it should be out on the water, if possible. Should have a very nice patio with outdoor seating on nice days/nights. Perhaps patterned after a Charlestons or Houston's type (though Houston's has occasionally gotten too snooty at times). No national coffee chains. It should be unique.


2. How do you envision the RESTAURANT for the Gardens?

Discuss the following:
Types of menu options available - general "style" of food? Dress code?
Hours of Operation (Lunch, Dinner, Sunday Bruch?)
Should a limited dinner menu be offered for large event nights (concerts, sporting events at Ford Center, etc)
Are there any restaurant concepts (local or outside of OKC) that you could see working in this space?
In short, what type of restaurant would most attract you for a) lunch or b) dinner.

Some of this is answered above. So as to be most financially successful, the restaurant should be able to attract and handle a lunch crowd. Maybe with a walk-up lunch window but also sit down dining. Central Park in NY has such amenities.

move the Mont to the gardens

Here's my thinking: go with either the Good Egg Group, Ryan Parrott and friends, or see if Chris Lower can put together another brilliant set of "twins." And if you can't get something along this line of excellence - go with a great national name that's not here (California Kitchen and Shake Shack are a great start)

I think it should be a local option if we can find the right choice. It should also be healthy, because most people that will go to the park probably are healthy eaters. I think it should be a place where locals feel welcome and tourists want to be a part of. It should be like Cheers with food!

Maybe a good soup and salad place. I am sure that the local guys could come up with a concept that would be great.

I have to say, Steve is right on with the Shake Shack. Coolest thing in lower Manhattan. A couple of years ago I was there on business around lunch time and happened to walk by Madison Square Park and couldn't understand why so many people were lined up (and it's not a big park by Manhattan standards).

I still haven't eaten the food but I've read about it and saw a nice bit on the Food Channel about it. Unbelievable hamburgers and fries.

If OKC could get a location, it would be extremely hip.

If we're going with a chain, I'll then say California Pizza Kitchen. Below is a link to their menu. They've got one in Omaha. Omaha seems to have everything I want.

Menu items, catering and beverages | California Pizza Kitchen (http://www.cpk.com/menu/)

Have never been to one of their locations but if the food is even remotely as horrid as their branded frozen dinner options, I would say PASS

Noticed once that the (I think) Degernos (sp) and California Pizza stuff are manufactured by the same people (think it was Kraft). They even used the same pics in the cooking instructions (flatbread pizza).
But back to topic, a local place would be optimal and might suggest something with a definite local Okie spin to it (food, decor etc) not stereotypical (in a bad way)

move the Mont to the gardens

Agreed..

Have never been to one of their locations but if the food is even remotely as horrid as their branded frozen dinner options, I would say PASS

But back to topic, a local place would be optimal and might suggest something with a definite local Okie spin to it (food, decor etc) not stereotypical (in a bad way)

I've never eaten their frozen food, but I like their restaurants. The only reason I would ever consider it as an option for the Garden restaurant is if they only had chains as an option. It's a far better option than most of the chains that come to mind.

I agree completely that we should try to go local. No barbecue, however, if we put a local Okie spin to it. I don't think the decor or food should in any way be western. I'd like it to be urban in feel. Or, if they want something with a more traditional feel, although it's gone, Tavern on the Green is a nice model.

Go with the best Shake Shack...
Shake Shack (http://shakeshack.com/)

Ding, Ding, Ding, this would be a huge land for OKC. Most Oklahoman's probably dont' even know what Shake Shack is. It's not too "national" either, they only have locations in NYC and Miami. People wait hours for their food in NYC. The stores even have webcams set up on line so you can check out the line before going. We don't have NYC population/tourism, so I don't think we'd have to contend for near as long lines here.


Gardens make me think of light food. Salads, perhaps California Pizza kitchen type pizzas, a few sandwiches (Wild Fork in Tulsa has a great prime rib sandwich on french bread with grilled onions and cheese), smoothies, flavored teas.

Dress code: If you want tourists, you can't be too picky about dress. I'd say casual, i.e. shirt and shoes required.

Hours: Lunch, Sunday brunch. Dinner would be nice, but not necessary.

Yes, a limited menu for large night events is an excellent idea

Restaurants that would work: I think it should be local, not a chain, although as I suggested, California Pizza kitchen has the type of menu I envision. I'd get someone from the Good Egg group to run it if you could interest them. Actually, Cheevers would be awesome in that location.

Totally agree, casual dress code, and prefer Good Egg Group to manage a new concept if interested.


The restaurants at the downtown library and state museum are locally owned.
Not impressed. Should ownership trump quality as the determining factor? Not saying you should go for an average chain restaurant.
But if you were to get Shake Shack interested and turned it down out of hand in favor of an untested local, I'll be totally bewildered.

Steve, I think for the most part we agree on local/national, but in this case I think it just makes sense to have one of each. The national for a draw/brand awareness and the local to give a sense of local flavor/talent. We'd be stupid to turn down Shake Shack.


I have to say, Steve is right on with the Shake Shack. Coolest thing in lower Manhattan. A couple of years ago I was there on business around lunch time and happened to walk by Madison Square Park and couldn't understand why so many people were lined up (and it's not a big park by Manhattan standards).

I still haven't eaten the food but I've read about it and saw a nice bit on the Food Channel about it. Unbelievable hamburgers and fries.

If OKC could get a location, it would be extremely hip.

Exactly. People would drive from surrounding states to eat her on occasion, similar to how many Oklahomans drive to Dallas to shop/eat at certain places. I'd also welcome a 5 Guys Burgers, mmmmmmmm.

Discovery green in Houston has a perfect example to follow. It is an outdoor cafe and would be a great place to get some ideas. Take a look at the link.



The Lake House | WATERSIDE CAFE / DISCOVERY GREEN (http://www.thelakehousehouston.com/)

I've never eaten their frozen food, but I like their restaurants. The only reason I would ever consider it as an option for the Garden restaurant is if they only had chains as an option. It's a far better option than most of the chains that come to mind.

I agree completely that we should try to go local. No barbecue, however, if we put a local Okie spin to it. I don't think the decor or food should in any way be western. I'd like it to be urban in feel. Or, if they want something with a more traditional feel, although it's gone, Tavern on the Green is a nice model.

Oh, God, you're right. No Earl's Rib Palace (as much as I do like it)! Also, no Hal Smith Restaurants!

St. Louis recently debuted a cool little urban park, includes a cafe called Terrace View. I don't know if this is more upscale than what is being considered in OKC, but it's a nice spot:

Citygarden - An urban oasis in downtown St. Louis (http://www.citygardenstl.org)

Would something like this work?

Republic2 at MBG

I couldn't agree more. What a great concept!

A. Although Shake Shack would be incredible, it will never happen. Plus, whatever goes next to MBG needs to have some indoor dining, Shake Shack is just a kitchen with a walkup window.

B. Needs to be fast casual and needs to have covered patio area along with indoor dining.

C. I just dont see the big appeal of California Pizza Kitchen


The Shake Shack did get me thinking about ballpark/arena food. Danny Meyers, the guy behind Shake and several other great restaurants was contracted to put some of his concepts including Shake at the NY Mets Citi Field. I remember hearing the Ford Center was having GEG put in an Iron Starr at the arena (next year?) but it would be great if they contracted with them to do other food stands in the arena.

Onthestrip, why don't you just go ahead and tell me there's no Santa Claus either?

And no tooth fairy either.

But you cant really expect them to open a shack in OKC can you? They have only recently opened one outside of NYC. Never has there been a store that only had locations in NYC, MIA, and OKC.

And no tooth fairy either.

But you cant really expect them to open a shack in OKC can you? They have only recently opened one outside of NYC. Never has there been a store that only had locations in NYC, MIA, and OKC.

Dream big! There's a first time for everything.

A. Although Shake Shack would be incredible, it will never happen. Plus, whatever goes next to MBG needs to have some indoor dining, Shake Shack is just a kitchen with a walkup window.

B. Needs to be fast casual and needs to have covered patio area along with indoor dining.

C. I just dont see the big appeal of California Pizza Kitchen


There are two dining option being put in the MBG... a restaurant and a cafe.

PS.... couldn't agree more with you on # C.

St. Louis recently debuted a cool little urban park, includes a cafe called Terrace View. I don't know if this is more upscale than what is being considered in OKC, but it's a nice spot:

Citygarden - An urban oasis in downtown St. Louis (http://www.citygardenstl.org)

Would something like this work?

I don't know, but I do like the look of CityGarden in general. Great space!

I'll be sharing all of this info with the consultants as we work through the process.

Some interesting options. Please keep 'em coming.

Doesn't matter to me.....they could put a McDonalds in there for all I care. I have never been to the Myriad Gardens, and I will never go there. What an abomination to tear down the buildings that used to be there, just to build a plastic tube with a bunch of plants inside.

phinzup, do you know what buildings were torn down to make way for the Gardens? Most of that area was pretty much blighted - not the classic buildings many of us mourn. The only exceptions - the Biltmore and Tivoli - were pretty much forced on the city to include in clearance. Planners of the gardens envisioned the hotels being incorporated into the park.
Visit I.M. Pei OKC | Resurrecting the Model | May 2010 (http://www.impeiokc.com) to learn more...

I'd be okay with the cafe being a chain, but would prefer something exclusive to OKC. I picture the cafes in parks like Battery Park and Herald Square in NYC. I don't think it necessarily needs to have a name, other than Garden Cafe or something of the sort. Also, I don't think it should serve alcohol. I'm sure if it's a walk-up setup, it couldn't anyway.

http://images.suite101.com/1094108_com_ferrara1.png

Actually, a local place that's well run and has excellent food that would fit perfect there is CRAVE, currently located in Leadership Square. About Crave (http://www.craveokc.com/About%20Crave.html)



The restaurant I definitely think should be local. Getting Good Egg to run it is a perfect idea.


Aren't we all guilty at one time or another of going to a strange city and seeing a TGIFriday's (just an example) and walking in because we know what to expect, wide variety of food and we feel we know it - no matter where it is? Like I said, it's in our "comfort zone." Right now, downtown needs some restaurants that tourists and natives alike can feel comfortable knowing what they're getting. That's the advantage of a chain, and if it's locally-owned, the money still stays here.

I understand where you're coming from, and I'd be okay with a couple more recognizable national chains in Bricktown or preferably the CBD, I don't think the exclusive MBG restaurant should be a chain. I'm thinking more like the Bryant Park Grill, only with a better reputation. (those of you who've been to NYC probably know what I mean ;)) Bryant Park Grill (http://www.arkrestaurants.com/bryant_park.html)

The restaurant can be a little more upscale. It may not attract your typical Thunder fan, but it would still do well. If La Baguette is packed on Game Nights (it is), then a Bryant Park Grill-type place would as well.

Another good example is the Boathouse Restaurant in Central Park. It has a very nice restaurant inside, but also a walk up window. Not sure if that works in the case though, because the walk-up would be too much like the cafe.


But if you were to get Shake Shack interested and turned it down out of hand in favor of an untested local, I'll be totally bewildered.

I definitely don't think it should go to someone "untested". I'd say Hal Smith (maybe), Deep Fork Group, or preferably Good Egg.


Steve, you don't like the Art Museum Cafe? I think it's excellent. I've never eaten at the library.


State Musuem Betts. Not the Art Museum Cafe.

True, but still a good point by betts. The Museum Cafe has a very fine reputation when it could easily have been a forgettable operation. You don't typically go out of your way to eat at a restaurant in a museum, but people do that with the Museum Cafe.


Plus, whatever goes next to MBG needs to have some indoor dining, Shake Shack is just a kitchen with a walkup window.

I disagree. That's why we have both a cafe and a restaurant. The cafe is more casual and could just be a walk-up.

NO HAL SMITH! His restaurants are really lame (with the exception of Redrock). Louie's is garbage. Mama Roja's = lame.

For the cafe how about a place like Big Truck Tacos? It could be fast for the downtown workers, trendy for the downtown residence, and fun for the tourists.


The restaurant should have a world renowned chef that will attract tourists!

Maybe an Emeril's or Bobby Flay restaurant! I would go there for all my special dinners.

duplicate post

NO HAL SMITH! His restaurants are really lame (with the exception of Redrock). Louie's is garbage. Mama Roja's = lame.

not sure about other restaurants owned by them but I respectfully disagree with the Mama Roja's comment. Very nice decor and the food was definitely a cut above what typically passes for Tex-Mex here in OKC.

At least for the Cafe, maybe something that would expand/compliment the Festival of the Arts concept (both in decor/food)

phinzup, do you know what buildings were torn down to make way for the Gardens? Most of that area was pretty much blighted - not the classic buildings many of us mourn. The only exceptions - the Biltmore and Tivoli - were pretty much forced on the city to include in clearance. Planners of the gardens envisioned the hotels being incorporated into the park.
Visit I.M. Pei OKC | Resurrecting the Model | May 2010 (http://www.impeiokc.com) to learn more...

Steve, did see it in the link but who "forced on the City" to remove? As you said, original plans included them, so what changed? Who do we have to blame? Couldn't the MG have been put in another location that may may been even more blighted (with no "worthy" buildings)?

Hey FritterGirl, that's awesome that you're taking a leadership role in the planning of the new restaurant at the Myriad Gardens. I'm a design student out of state and I operate a downtown-oriented blog at downtownontherange.blogspot.com that gets interesting sometimes and I've theorized a lot on opportunities for new restaurants here and there.. basically, I just have a few interesting points I wanted to give you:

First to answer your questions:

1. The cafe: Focus on desert and snack items. Gourmet pretzels maybe. Gelatto ice cream. Chocolate-covered items, maybe just sell items that people can dip in a chocolate fountain themselves. If you have to bring a national chain in, maybe a Panera or Atlanta Bread Co... they sell good coffee drinks and I can't think of a national coffee chain (in the south) that has decent food items. In an ideal world you would develop something like an OKC version of Cafe Plaid in Nompton which is by far the best cafe in Central Oklahoma. Great coffee offerings, great cafe food too. There aren't many national chains with that kind of mix, but if there are, then go for it I guess.

2. The restaurant: I think that there are two ways to go with the type of restaurant, one would be something like an upscale Okie-themed restaurant that plays up local elements, directed toward tourists, and two would be a restaurant that is just so unique and different and colorful that would be more directed toward residents who would need something different to draw them.

(A) The first example should be similar to the restaurant that's in the basement of the Clinton Library in Little Rock, which I didn't even know about until I visited and smelled bacon, and following my nose, came upon a great restaurant. There the restaurant looked like an incredibly classy southern restaurant with a huge emphasis on the porch, where most of the nicer tables were. In the south we love our porches. The menu was very Arkansas, and Clinton-themed (aka guaranteed to give you a heart attack..under appetizers they had mini burgers and the waiter was knowledgeable about every heart attack Clinton has ever had). IF we have to do a typical touristy restaurant, let's do something like this (here's their website (http://www.dineatfortytwo.com/)). And it's actually a really affordable restaurant, too.

http://www.dineatfortytwo.com/media/uploads/menu_banner_image.jpg
This patio area is actually a widely acclaimed space that is supposed to represent the merging of "old Arkansas" and "new Arkansas." The Clinton Library itself is supposed to resemble a "bridge to the future" (or in my opinion, a modern double-wide trailer home) and they chose the design because of the awesome rusted-out railroad bridge that crosses the Arkansas River in front of the library site, which they kept and highlighted as a "bridge to the past." It's a really, really cool concept in my opinion. I had a GREAT time at the library..best presidential library in the nation, or the south at least.

(B) The second example would be a lot easier to explain but a lot more complicated in concept. A restaurant located in a park away from a typical restaurant row needs to be extremely unique and different in order to attract locals who are more likely to go to Bricktown or MidTown for the mundane. In order to be successful this restaurant should be something so unexpected and unique in OKC, like maybe an Argentinan steakhouse (mmmm), or a real German restaurant like Old Bavaria on Sooner Rd with a brewery in the front, or a Norwegian seafood restaurant, or something like that! Something different, colorful, and way out of the norm. People would go to that in a park, whereas they might not on Memorial Rd or even in MidTown. It's sort of a scissors scenario between being "out there" and being accessible..the less accessible a restaurant is, the more "out there" it needs to be to draw locals.

As for a national coffee house locating in the park, I also think that's an awesome idea. I am a big believer and advocate in local businesses, don't get me wrong, but in some instances you do need a base of nationally recognized brands..they are important as a pedestal you can build on. The problem with downtown coffee houses is that downtown has yet to be established as a fertile market for locally owned coffee houses, so we actually NEED to get more chains in to help "open" the area up more to coffee shops, regardless of how much Starbucks sucks in my opinion. On my blog (link to one of the posts here (http://downtownontherange.blogspot.com/2010/05/buyers-remorse-in-okc.html)) I've talked a lot about the need to get the nationally recognized brands in downtown for the good of the local shops that would hopefully be the focus of our end result. And yes, it's TRUE that a small number of local businesses actually DO carry a strong enough local reputation that they could fill the part here, BUT as far as restaurants go, all good OKC restaurants in my opinion should stay where they are. Except Cafe Pranzo, they need a more visible space. Maybe that would work, idk if they're interesting in moving though. I recommend Cafe Pranzo mostly not because their menu is incredibly unique but because when I think of locally well-established restaurants possibly in need of a better space, they come to mind first.

In short: 1, unique menu; 2, "recommended" dress code..business casual (just collared shirts maybe), keep in mind it's in a park; 3, hours of operation cater to downtown events and the brunch crowd; 4, two specific concepts I recommended was 42 Restaurant in Little Rock or maybe relocating Cafe Pranzo here; 5, again, it's gotta be different..not going to eat at a park-setting restaurant that's just a burger joint, I'm too partial to McNellie's and Irma's.

____________

My own concerns are access. The type of access that the restaurant and cafe would have would greatly change the type of joint we should see there, and I would certainly hope that the restaurant has easy access that you don't have to walk all the way through the park for. (on that note, it kinda makes me wish that in the new landscaping schemes they had included a meandering one-way lane for automobile traffic to just experience the park as well...)

I disagree. That's why we have both a cafe and a restaurant. The cafe is more casual and could just be a walk-up.

Yea, ok. You go ahead and be the only customer in the months of July, august, December, January, and February. Our weather just doesnt permit something like this.

I don't think the restaurant needs a "theme" or a hook. It just needs to be a good restaurant. The hook is that you are dining in the Gardens. Museum Cafe is more off the beaten path than perhaps any restaurant downtown and is still a huge draw.

This would easily be the best restaurant patio in town, with the only real competition from Red Rock at Lake Hefner.


Yea, ok. You go ahead and be the only customer in the months of July, august, December, January, and February. Our weather just doesnt permit something like this.

Because the weather is so much warmer in NYC??

And summers are much worse here than in Houston, Dallas..

Please no Hal Smith restaurants and two, why are we talking about Museum Cafe, sure they have good food, but are rarely busy. Every time I've eaten there it's been 3/4 empty and also when I walk/drive by all the time, it's half empty.

Please no Hal Smith restaurants and two, why are we talking about Museum Cafe, sure they have good food, but are rarely busy. Every time I've eaten there it's been 3/4 empty and also when I walk/drive by all the time, it's half empty.

Because they have a very nice menu and their foods are well-prepared, that's why I mentioned them? I have no idea why it would be half empty. I've never had a bad meal there. It's a bit out of the way for the casual diner, however, and parking can be a pain in the neck. But, if I worked downtown and wanted to have a nice meal, the Museum Cafe would be high on my list.

Everytime I've been to the museum cafe it's been quite busy. Maybe you're going during the dinner hour when yes, it's more hit and miss. But I wouldn't describe the museum cafe as a failure.

I love the Museum Cafe.

For the record, we met with the consulting firm last week to talk through concepts, etc... We feel lucky to be considered for the restaurant and/or cafe and love seeing everyones support here for our group...AGEDG.

Regardless of who they go with, this restaurant needs to be a GREAT restaurant...final!!! We all need the restaurant and cafe to be successful...that's what is important!

Steve, I am a huge fan of Shake Shack. What Danny Meyer is doing there is focusing on quality ingredients, overwhelming perfect hospitality and "A" locations. We don't need his concept in the park, but I do think a similiar concept is the way to go.

Keep this discussion going strong...it's fantastic for all of OKC!

I would love to see a Cheevers type place in the park, with outside dining. It would be a wonderful place to have Sunday brunch, while sitting outside.

As far as a coffeehouse, sure Starbucks, but when it comes to actual dining do something local. Whether we are here or traveling we just don't do chains if there are any other options. We love to discover dining that unique to the city we are visiting. I don't want to eat somewhere while traveling that I can get when I'm anywhere else.

As far as dress codes, etc. OKC is pretty casual and relaxed compared to many other cities. I can't think of too many places here that a tourist in shorts and a t-shirt couldn't walk into. I have been in places here where one table had diners in tux's and evening dresses, while the table next to them had jeans and tshirts and it's all good. That's what I like about it here.

Tuck, obviously I think if MBG can get Good Egg, or Ryan Parrott, Robert Painter and that gang, or whatever new set of twins Chris Lower can put together (all hail BTT), then there's a home run being scored. I only suggest an outside interest like Shake Shack if the top local folks aren't interested.
This is more a reflection on what I've seen at the state museum (where the vendor suddenly shut down last fall) and at the downtown library.
Glad to hear you guys are interested....

I would love to see a Cheevers type place in the park, with outside dining. It would be a wonderful place to have Sunday brunch, while sitting outside.

As far as a coffeehouse, sure Starbucks, but when it comes to actual dining do something local. Whether we are here or traveling we just don't do chains if there are any other options. We love to discover dining that unique to the city we are visiting. I don't want to eat somewhere while traveling that I can get when I'm anywhere else.

As far as dress codes, etc. OKC is pretty casual and relaxed compared to many other cities. I can't think of too many places here that a tourist in shorts and a t-shirt couldn't walk into. I have been in places here where one table had diners in tux's and evening dresses, while the table next to them had jeans and tshirts and it's all good. That's what I like about it here.

I've found that a Thunder shirt and jeans is an acceptable substitute for a dress code and will get you past any front desk in OKC.

I am really excited with the prospect of having a beautiful setting to eat outside. When I think of this kind of restaurant, I am with betts in seeing more healthful menu full of fresh fruit options and a nice pot of tea. Of course, I am somewhat biased this way being a vegetarian I would prefer the hamburger was not stressed as the main option (sorry Steve). I can see this a great place to linger on a warm spring, summer or fall late morning to early afternoon. And I also like the Museum Cafe and most times I have been there it is quite full.

Don't say sorry. Not arguing with you at all CCOKC. Those are good ideas. Part of the confusion here, and we may need some clarification from Frittergirl, is are we talking about just the restaurant or the cafe too? The Shake Shack concept would obviously be more appropriate for the smaller cafe.

Yes, I am confused about that too. I could always go for a good shake though and would somehow find a way to make french fries and a chocolate shake a meal if I had to. Hell, I managed to make an apricot fried pie breakfast on my way to Dallas yesterday.