$20M Hard Rock amphitheater targets frequent customers
By Kirby Lee Davis
The Journal Record
Posted: 09:43 PM Tuesday, May 4, 2010


Workers are busy constructing “The Joint,” a new entertainment venue at the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Tulsa. The venue will seat 2,700 people and is slated to open in October. (Rip Stell)
TULSA – How much does Cherokee Nation Entertainment value its VIP customer satisfaction program?

Just start at $20 million.

That’s the cost of the 2,700-seat event center the Cherokee Nation’s gaming and hospitality arm will soon add to its Hard Rock Hotel and Casino in Tulsa.

Named Tuesday as “The Joint,” the indoor amphitheater will host a number of revenue-producing concerts, conventions and other events. But CNE Chief Executive David Stewart said its primary role supports their campaign to attract VIPs, those frequent, heavy-spending customers who account for more than half of all CNE casino business.

As the top level in the Cherokee’s three-tiered player’s club system, VIPs represent 5 percent of Hard Rock spenders. When The Joint opens, their rewards will include free event center tickets and access to nine luxury suites. Stewart expects the Hard Rock to give away 20 to 30 percent of The Joint event tickets under that player’s club program.

“Those good players are what the whole system is about,” Stewart said Tuesday before a media tour of the facility, under construction by Tulsa-based Flintco for an October opening. “The VIP customer service program is designed to accommodate their needs.”

The Cherokees have started booking events for October and November. Stewart could not release booking activity.

Designed by the architectural firm Thalden Boyd Emery, the 45,000-square-foot facility fulfills many concert expectations implied by the Hard Rock name. It also creates a large meeting area to enhance the casino’s 40,000 square feet of convention space.

That allows the Cherokees to market their facility to groups needing gathering space for 1,500 to 2,500 individuals. While that represents a small number of convention groups, Stewart sees it as a growth opportunity.

“There’s not anything out there like it,” he said of competing Tulsa complexes. “It’s a piece of the total package we offer.”

Continuing the circular architecture adorning other sections of the $155 million Hard Rock additions, the venue entrance will offer two bars open only during events.

The spreading auditorium features an area for private parties, a small platform for standing patrons and the half-ring of luxury suites.

“We’re not really interested in selling those,” Stewart said of the suites. “They’re for our better customers.”

Curtains may cordon off seating sections for smaller venues. A pit around the stage accommodates up to 600 for a more intimate performance setting, with two 14-inch projection screens providing enhanced views.

The center provides five dressing rooms for guest artists.

“We have a few acts lined up,” Stewart said. “We’re not really allowed to tell who those are yet.”

The center should provide another boost for the expanding casino, which through the first four months of 2010 matched its 2009 performance. With the national gaming sector down 15 percent or more this year, Stewart considers CNE’s performance quite strong.

With the Cherokee’s new Ramona casino to debut in a temporary facility within 90 days, and The Joint opening some two months after that, Stewart expects to build on the Hard Rock investment to regain positive revenue growth in 2010.

“The value proposition is what people want,” he said. “They want to go to one spot to have fun and not have to spend a lot of money. We deliver that.”

On the Web

Rock | New Hard Rock Music | Hard Rock (http://www.hardrocktulsa.com)

so when is OKC getting a Hard Rock venue of any kind? I expect to see one along the canal somewhere in the future.

This is actually in Catoosa and the only reason they have the Hard Rock brand is because of the Indian tribe that owns it and the fact it's attached to their main casino.

This is actually in Catoosa and the only reason they have the Hard Rock brand is because of the Indian tribe that owns it and the fact it's attached to their main casino.

from what I understand, the Seminole Tribe owns the entire Hard Rock Cafe franchise worldwide.

So what you're saying is the Cherokees and the Seminoles get along?

So what you're saying is the Cherokees and the Seminoles get along?

im pretty sure all the tribes get along, i mean its not like anyone is perched atop a horse shooting arrows at each other anymore.

if they still want to fight, they can go to court.

Wow....that's all I can say to those comments...wow.

This is actually in Catoosa and the only reason they have the Hard Rock brand is because of the Indian tribe that owns it and the fact it's attached to their main casino.

Well, Hard Rock was rumored for a long time for DT Tulsa--they were looking at the market heavily at the time the Cherokees announced their major high-rise casino project and they decided to enter that partnership instead and put their brand on that project.

Well, Hard Rock was rumored for a long time for DT Tulsa--they were looking at the market heavily at the time the Cherokees announced their major high-rise casino project and they decided to enter that partnership instead and put their brand on that project.

ROFL Good one, Spartan

There goes more of our good concerts. I don't understand why neither FireLake or Riverwind has the vision to create anything even remotely this ambitious. Maybe we'll get something of this caliber at Remington Park.

There goes more of our good concerts. I don't understand why neither FireLake or Riverwind has the vision to create anything even remotely this ambitious. Maybe we'll get something of this caliber at Remington Park.

I don't think it will affect much of anything for OKC or anyone else. The casino circuit doesn't really have high standards and it's not like concerts will come to Tulsa and not OKC. I mean hell, they come to Lucky Star.. they'll come to Riverwind lol.

By the way, has anyone noticed how crappy Riverwind's concert lineup has been lately?

There goes more of our good concerts. I don't understand why neither FireLake or Riverwind has the vision to create anything even remotely this ambitious. Maybe we'll get something of this caliber at Remington Park.

You're being a little hard on Riverwind. I believe they have a concert arena that is easily as nice as this one is going to be (although substantially smaller)

Casinos are becoming the venues of choice for anything other than the very top tier of acts. Touring costs are up dramatically, venue costs are a large chunk of that and unless you can come close to filling an 18-20K seat arena with $75-100+ tickets it is becoming unaffordable for most artists. There are fewer groups playing arenas (or stadiums) than there was even 10 years ago. I also know many people who are unwilling to spend that kind of money on tickets even though they can afford it, I know that I hesitate when looking at those kind of ticket prices with an additional $15-20 in fees on top of that. In the early to mid 80's there were shows all the time at The Myriad or LNC, most were around $15. When I lived in Dallas (91-93) I went to more club shows, one was a country bar that held around 2,000 and most shows were $8.00, this was my cousin's band and people like Vince Gill, Steve Wariner, Little Texas when they were having hits and Garth Brooks right before he hit it big.

I know that we are never going back to the $12.50 arena show but in most of the "alternative venue" shows are in the sub-50 range with lower fees because they have other revenue streams to help cover costs like many of the bar shows. I was sitting on my cousin's tour bus after a show at Cowboy's on Gaston in Dallas when the owner stepped on the bus (an Altus native who grew up with my cousins) and he said they broke the attendance record of Garth Brooks there with about 3,000 people packed in there, so at $8.00 a head he came close to covering the bands fee ($25,000 in 1991) and kept the bar revenue for himself, the casinos operate in much the same way having the gaming floor to pick up extra revenue.

I will say that the majority of shows are headed that way just because of the sheer economics. You are either going to have "affordable" shows at alternative venues like casinos or high dollar shows at arenas/stadiums. There is also a trend to higher dollar shows with a different, more intimate experience. I spent much of the past year on an amphitheater expansion at one of those venues here in the Austin area and much of his research into it comes from the California wine country and their dinner/entertainment shows with 2,000 seat venues.

When I lived in Dallas (91-93) I went to more club shows, one was a country bar that held around 2,000 and most shows were $8.00, this was my cousin's band and people like Vince Gill, Steve Wariner, Little Texas when they were having hits and Garth Brooks right before he hit it big.

Bluedogok, when you were in Dallas, did you ever have the opportunity to see an act at the Broncho Bowl in Oak Cliff? When I lived there, a developer tried to bring it back and I got to see Springsteen in a solo, acoustic concert that was awesome. It was located in a non-so-desireable neighborhood, which eventually killed it, but what an incredible facility for entertainment. I don't know of anywhere else like it.

I never did, I think it was closed during most of the time that I lived there for the remodel, I don't remember any shows advertised there during that period. I do remember some shows advertised after I moved back to OKC and had thought about heading down for a show but never did.

Another place where I saw some cheap rock shows was a club named The Roxy for a little while where Quicksilvers was at NW 10th & MacArthur around 94-95. I saw Kansas, Molly Hatchet (Danny Joe Brown had the flu and should have canceled the show), The Nixons and a few others and most shows were around $25. I saw Motley Crue w/ John Corabi, they played at what seemed like the same volume as they did when they played The Myriad on the Dr. Feelgood tour. My favorite was Dream Theater and Fates Warning, their stage barely fit in the place.

You're being a little hard on Riverwind. I believe they have a concert arena that is easily as nice as this one is going to be (although substantially smaller)

Well I actually think Riverwind is very nice, but is still not very ambitious overall compared to the Hard Rock/former Cherokee Grand. A high rise Hard Rock hotel vs. a 2-story Microtel that's not even attached? Hard Rock has a golf course. And now this.

Well I actually think Riverwind is very nice, but is still not very ambitious overall compared to the Hard Rock/former Cherokee Grand. A high rise Hard Rock hotel vs. a 2-story Microtel that's not even attached? Hard Rock has a golf course. And now this.

I suspect that if the Riverwind thought it would be to their advantage to do that kind of development they could and would do it. These people are in business in make money. As far as the quality of entertaiment provided, people forget that before the local casinos were built we weren't getting the kinds of acts that they promote at all. There weren't any venues to support them.

I suspect that if the Riverwind thought it would be to their advantage to do that kind of development they could and would do it. These people are in business in make money. As far as the quality of entertaiment provided, people forget that before the local casinos were built we weren't getting the kinds of acts that they promote at all. There weren't any venues to support them.
In many cities there is a lack of venues, most have the large arena and club sizes covered but anything medium sized is scarce. I know there is a problem with that in Austin as some have closed due to development in recent years and OKC has pretty much always had that. The Zoo Amphitheater needs a replacement and I don't think the Coca-Cola Center in Bricktown is the answer for music. The casinos have stepped into the void but there are still gaps that need to be covered.

Well I actually think Riverwind is very nice, but is still not very ambitious overall compared to the Hard Rock/former Cherokee Grand. A high rise Hard Rock hotel vs. a 2-story Microtel that's not even attached? Hard Rock has a golf course. And now this.

I thought we were talking about the event center, not the hotel or golf course.

I found it weird that when I was flying on southwest about a month ago hard rock had a full page add that listed all thier locations (cafes, resorts, and casinos) and tulsa's was nowhere to be found

I found it weird that when I was flying on southwest about a month ago hard rock had a full page add that listed all thier locations (cafes, resorts, and casinos) and tulsa's was nowhere to be found

HAhaha... I have seen the exact same magazine and had the same thought!

so when is OKC getting a Hard Rock venue of any kind? I expect to see one along the canal somewhere in the future.

Ugh...I hope not.

Ugh...I hope not.

Hard Rock Cafe----NO
House of Blues----Yes

Well I actually think Riverwind is very nice, but is still not very ambitious overall compared to the Hard Rock/former Cherokee Grand. A high rise Hard Rock hotel vs. a 2-story Microtel that's not even attached? Hard Rock has a golf course. And now this.


Is this what you meant by ambitious? ;-) (pic of the Hard Rock Hotel's pool)
http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2010/20100601_D3Pool0601a.jpg

Hard Rock Cafe----NO
House of Blues----Yes

This

Uhhh.. yeah real funny???:confused:

The Hard Rock concept has pulled a Fonzie....
MDthMGtZKa4

The one on Sixth Street failed not long after I moved to Austin, mainly because it is nothing more than a restaurant with a little bit of memorabilia. It seems a place laying claim to rock music should have live music playing in it if they are going to have a location in the (self proclaimed) Live Music Capital. At least the House of Blues has acts playing regularly.

I'd think a House of Blues would be great in the vacant lot on Reno Ave. and Mickey Mantle.

The New Orleans HOB is in the Quarter in an historic building. Would be great to see it in one of the original BT buildings, as opposed to a new structure.


I thought we were talking about the event center, not the hotel or golf course.

I was talking about the overall package, although I've since been informed that Riverwind is building a new theatre and the old theatre will be expanded gaming areas. Also I was incorrect in thinking the hotel was a MicroTel. Apparently it's very nice, but still small compared to the Hard Rock Hotel.

Is this what you meant by ambitious? ;-) (pic of the Hard Rock Hotel's pool)
http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2010/20100601_D3Pool0601a.jpg

that's just.... disappointing..

I don't think it will affect much of anything for OKC or anyone else. The casino circuit doesn't really have high standards and it's not like concerts will come to Tulsa and not OKC. I mean hell, they come to Lucky Star.. they'll come to Riverwind lol.

By the way, has anyone noticed how crappy Riverwind's concert lineup has been lately?

maybe the casino circuit, but i wouldn't put a hard rock ampithater in the same class. i know the seminole hard rock in hollywood, fl had steely dan and aerosmith play in the past.

maybe the casino circuit, but i wouldn't put a hard rock ampithater in the same class. i know the seminole hard rock in hollywood, fl had steely dan and aerosmith play in the past.

I wouldn't exactly call those current A list acts. Not bad, just not top of the line. OKC occasionally gets similar quality at the Zoo such as Sugarland and Twisted Sister. And don't assume that just because it's a Hard Rock that Tulsa will get the same acts that appear in a large Florida resort area.

maybe the casino circuit, but i wouldn't put a hard rock ampithater in the same class. i know the seminole hard rock in hollywood, fl had steely dan and aerosmith play in the past.


Yeah, steely dan also has a number of other casinos on the tour schedule (and I'm not talking the Wynn or MGM Grand) and as the prior poster said, it's a bit of a stretch to assume the Hard Rock Tulsa will necessarily get the same act or the same quality of acts as the Hard Rock in Hollywood Florida (in the middle of the Miami/Ft. Lauderdale metro)