With the unreal success of the thunder and the city for the most part going crazy for the thunder, is it a real possibility okc could see an all star game in its future? I mean we sell the arena out daily and the playoff atmosphere here has been compared to that of only sacramento's arco arena back in their playoff days. David stern and even kobe bryant said the other night that this city is big league, with that being said, i say bring us an all star game stern by 2012, who agrees?

lol hold on there night train, its been an awesome year but i dont know if we are even close to being ready for an all star game. Dallas said the allstar game brought over a million plus visitors to their city this past yr, by far the biggest event in sports. It brings in more people than a super bowl. OKC doesnt have the hotels or quite the support yet for the thunder. Its crazy here but give it 5 more yrs or so, let that map 3 deal develop and also it may take another arena and then maybe okc can go to stern for a deal for an all star game, but no way not any time soon

yea, nice post but no way are we near ready for an all star weekend.

i second that to all that was said in the previous post, also as a black man that went to the nba all star game a few yrs back, do you realize all star weekend is like a black woodstock/ hip hop woodstock coming out party. Hotels in the dfw metroplex area were full from dallas all the way down to waco for the all star game, and waco is damn near an hr from dallas. Your talking every rapper on the face of the earth was there, if it was hip hop culture in 2010 they were in dallas for all star weekend. Can you seriously seriosly imagine that being in okc? lol no way, i would love to see snoop dogg try to book a hotel in yukon or shawnee and throw a party, he'd get run out of town. There are still some i feel that dont seem to truly get that we have a team here yet and refuse to jump on the nba bandwagon here, they prefer to keep this city all ou all the time. So yea its gonna be a while before this whole city is ready for an all star game, we have to get the city to be hands down all in it for the nba before we can convince david stern we're ready. Its crazy right now but i still feel like there about 40% of the city that could care less about the thunder.

From the stories I hear we may be better off not hosting an allstar weekend.

I would say until the new convention center and hotel as well as core to shore are built, then maybe a 4% shot.

That is a ways away, Core to Shore completion is 30 to 50 years away...LOL

Besides hotel space, another thing is the relative lack of direct flights at the airport (two of the "challenges" cited by the Chamber's Convention Center Study that is holding us back from being a Tier II city).

From the stories I hear we may be better off not hosting an allstar weekend.

I agree. Las Vegas had significant problems when they hosted.

I was in Denver when they hosted the all star game. Trust me, its not something you really want in your city if you want a quiet, peaceful and safe weekend. Plus, OKC doesn't have enough quality venues for all the private parties that take place. No, OKC isn't ready for, or should desire the NBA all-star game.

Hold up, NBA newbie's! OKC is NOT an All-Star ready team. The hotels and convention space, also flights. And think about this OK has been in the national headlines twice this week Lakers-Thunder and Abortion bills. Just as you think the perception of OK is changing it really isn't. A bunch of east and west coast owners would never want to knowingly have an event in OKC. Sorry, and this comes from as big a Thunder fan as there is, I am just being realistic here.

If we could host an all star game that would be great, but it wont happen. We wont be hosting it anytime soon. The all star game is a big deal, and we just arent there yet. I mean, what this guy says pretty much sums it up.


i second that to all that was said in the previous post, also as a black man that went to the nba all star game a few yrs back, do you realize all star weekend is like a black woodstock/ hip hop woodstock coming out party. Hotels in the dfw metroplex area were full from dallas all the way down to waco for the all star game, and waco is damn near an hr from dallas. Your talking every rapper on the face of the earth was there, if it was hip hop culture in 2010 they were in dallas for all star weekend. Can you seriously seriosly imagine that being in okc? lol no way, i would love to see snoop dogg try to book a hotel in yukon or shawnee and throw a party, he'd get run out of town. There are still some i feel that dont seem to truly get that we have a team here yet and refuse to jump on the nba bandwagon here, they prefer to keep this city all ou all the time. So yea its gonna be a while before this whole city is ready for an all star game, we have to get the city to be hands down all in it for the nba before we can convince david stern we're ready. Its crazy right now but i still feel like there about 40% of the city that could care less about the thunder.

The same saying were not big enough or ready to host the NBA All Star Game are the same ones that were saying we weren't big enough or ready to have an NBA Team

The same saying were not big enough or ready to host the NBA All Star Game are the same ones that were saying we weren't big enough or ready to have an NBA TeamFor Heavens sake rcjunkie, give up dude, the constant negativity will destroy you from the inside.

No

We are barely accepted as an NBA city. There is a big leap between that and hosting the all-star game. We are currently in the same category as Memphis and Sacramento in terms of the NBA pecking order. These are NBA cities but not places the NBA wants to host their all-star game. Miami, NY, LA, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Phoenix, Philly, Chicago, and even Las Vegas are oranges, we are apples. OKC can get there but it will take a lot of time and change. Give it 20 years.

I agree. Las Vegas had significant problems when they hosted.

I was there when it was in Vegas. Lots of problems, but we don't have Vegas sized amenities to host one either.


I was in Denver when they hosted the all star game. Trust me, its not something you really want in your city if you want a quiet, peaceful and safe weekend. Plus, OKC doesn't have enough quality venues for all the private parties that take place. No, OKC isn't ready for, or should desire the NBA all-star game.

Yeah, lots of crime and gangbanger reports from the one in Vegas. I was there at the tail end of it and it was crazy.


Hold up, NBA newbie's! OKC is NOT an All-Star ready team. The hotels and convention space, also flights. And think about this OK has been in the national headlines twice this week Lakers-Thunder and Abortion bills. Just as you think the perception of OK is changing it really isn't. A bunch of east and west coast owners would never want to knowingly have an event in OKC. Sorry, and this comes from as big a Thunder fan as there is, I am just being realistic here.

Nick, it doesn't matter about the "team" as much as the City. We don't have near the hotels we'd need, as well as the caliber of hotels. Sorry OKC but a Motel 6 on I-40 and Meridian doesn't cut it. We need more hotels like Downtown has, Waterford Marriott, Crowne Plaza and Marriott on NW Expressway, etc. We have very few midrise hotels in this city. Same goes for the quotes about the nightlife, retail options, and other things that we'd need to host one. The good news is, we could probably attract a Nike & Adidas flagship type store to Downtown if we were to host one. I disagree with you about the abortion story in the news, stupid crap happens everywhere and this isn't the crowd that really pays attention to that or even cares. Same could be said for when we got the NBA team or of other cities, that's just a lame excuse some locals use for everything.

Although we won't host one anytime soon, I doubt we'd have nearly the problems that Vegas had. Being here in the middle of the country we don't have the same access that Vegas had (in terms of the crime and gang banging element). Also you wouldn't have the same type of turnout because in fact we are Oklahoma City. But alas... its not gonna happen anytime soon.

When will get to host the Super Bowl??

Super Bowl, what about the 2020 OKC Olympics Luke proposes? Heck why not the first ever intergalatic megabowl?

David Stern was asked this exact question and he said emphatically, No. There might be a number of reasons for this, but the first thing he referenced was the fact that OKC doesn't have anywhere near enough hotel occupancy.

The same saying were not big enough or ready to host the NBA All Star Game are the same ones that were saying we weren't big enough or ready to have an NBA Team

Not an ALLSTAR city??? Didnt OKC host the AAA "all-star" game a few years back....take that haters. :kicking:

But seriously, I like how people pointing out realistic things that it takes to host an All-Star game some how turns into that you are not a believer in the city.


I mean is everyone going to be at Skyy Bar and Rok Bar. I am sure Snoop and Co. et al would be real impressed with the VIP areas. And I dont think Russells in the Marriott is exactly quite the hotel bar that clientele is accoustomed too.

Who knows though, maybe I am just skeptical, see you all at the LIL WAYNE concert at the Diamond Ballroom....OKC ALL STAR WEEKEND 2012

Super Bowl, what about the 2020 OKC Olympics Luke proposes? Heck why not the first ever intergalatic megabowl? Except for major flooding would cause it to be canceled and moved to little rock just like the 4million recorder blow off!!!!

Let's not get ahead of ourselves, we first have to host the NBA Finals.

No, We don't have even 1/4th the needed hotel rooms.

Something more realistic would be shooting for Round 2 of the NCAA March Madness tournament or a College Bowl game at OU.

Something more realistic would be shooting for Round 2 of the NCAA March Madness tournament or a College Bowl game at OU.

Round 2, or the regional finals are now being played in domes and large indoor stadiums. The NCAA has started doing this the last couple years. And I doubt OU is interested in hosting a bowl game. Also, finding a sponser would might be difficult at this time.

One sporting event that I think could be attainable is a PGA golf tourney. The owners of Oaktree National talked about this a year or so ago. But then again, finding a sponser is the key.

For Heavens sake rcjunkie, give up dude, the constant negativity will destroy you from the inside.

Andy my good friend, sounds as though you speak from experience.

Pot calling the kettle black alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Andy my good friend, sounds as though you speak from experience.

Pot calling the kettle black alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!come on danielf you can do better than that.

Besides hotel space, another thing is the relative lack of direct flights at the airport (two of the "challenges" cited by the Chamber's Convention Center Study that is holding us back from being a Tier II city).

It's true, we don't have the required hotel space and I think it would take more than a convention center hotel to get there. 30,000 rooms is the figure I remember being a minimum. I'm not sure direct flights would be required, as many private jet is the transport of choice for many of the people attending who would care about a direct flight. But, after holding the game in a domed football arena and selling it out, that may be the new venue of choice for the NBA, which makes getting the All Star game an impossibility for OKC.

Sorry, duplicate post.

It's true, we don't have the required hotel space and I think it would take more than a convention center hotel to get there. 30,000 rooms is the figure I remember being a minimum. I'm not sure direct flights would be required, as many private jet is the transport of choice for many of the people attending who would care about a direct flight. But, after holding the game in a domed football arena and selling it out, that may be the new venue of choice for the NBA, which makes getting the All Star game an impossibility for OKC.

Betts is back and posting all over the place! You've been missed, hope everything is well.

Can't recall the room amount myself but vaguely recall Stern mentioning both the hotel and direct flights a couple of years ago? My be totally wrong on that.

On the domed football stadium subject. When Mayor Cornett was going thru the MAPS 3 survey and "checking off" the top items (either thru MAPS 3 or bond issues) that we had just about everything covered except for the NFL stadium. He made an interesting comment, something to the effect "It would be nice but why would we build a stadium when we didn't have a team to play in it?" Ummmm, we didn't have an NHL or NBA team when we built the arena either. Had to laugh at that.

My mom was sick and in the hospital. She's fine now.

Sorry to hear that but glad everything is ok now. Again, glad you're back

Betts is back and posting all over the place! You've been missed, hope everything is well.

Can't recall the room amount myself but vaguely recall Stern mentioning both the hotel and direct flights a couple of years ago? My be totally wrong on that.

On the domed football stadium subject. When Mayor Cornett was going thru the MAPS 3 survey and "checking off" the top items (either thru MAPS 3 or bond issues) that we had just about everything covered except for the NFL stadium. He made an interesting comment, something to the effect "It would be nice but why would we build a stadium when we didn't have a team to play in it?" Ummmm, we didn't have an NHL or NBA team when we built the arena either. Had to laugh at that.

I don't think that was all of his answer, but the thing is we MET all of the minimum NHL and NBA requirements, we can't currently meet the NFL minimum requirements, we don't have the population or TV market.

Metro, I personally agree


Here is the Mayor’s full quote about an NFL stadium, form his January, 2010 State of the City address (City of Oklahoma City | 2010 State of the City (http://okc.gov/council/mayor/state_of_city/2010/index.html)):


Number ten, football! A new NFL stadium. Well, that would be cool. And I guess we could build one, but there wouldn’t be a team to play in it. But, seriously, about football and soccer in general, I will note that MAPS for Kids constructed a new football stadium at Douglass High School and the 2007 school bond issue has some money to improve Taft and Speegle stadia. How about half a check mark?

Again I agree but others have insisted that we could easily support an NFL team...some said we didn't really have the population/tv market for the NBA either. Just saying many of the same arguments against the NFL were used against the NBA and that turned out ok. Right?

No doubt it helped tremendously that we had the 2 year track record with the Hornets (instead of theoretical numbers in a report somewhere). Yet we didn't have that track record back in 93 when Mr. Norrick decided to "build it and they will come".

Now if the question is can OKC support 2 pro sports at this time, I think that is a another debate entirely.

Not an ALLSTAR city??? Didnt OKC host the AAA "all-star" game a few years back....take that haters. :kicking:

But seriously, I like how people pointing out realistic things that it takes to host an All-Star game some how turns into that you are not a believer in the city.


I mean is everyone going to be at Skyy Bar and Rok Bar. I am sure Snoop and Co. et al would be real impressed with the VIP areas. And I dont think Russells in the Marriott is exactly quite the hotel bar that clientele is accoustomed too.

Who knows though, maybe I am just skeptical, see you all at the LIL WAYNE concert at the Diamond Ballroom....OKC ALL STAR WEEKEND 2012

see ya there

Metro, I personally agree


Here is the Mayor’s full quote about an NFL stadium, form his January, 2010 State of the City address (City of Oklahoma City | 2010 State of the City (http://okc.gov/council/mayor/state_of_city/2010/index.html)):



Again I agree but others have insisted that we could easily support an NFL team...some said we didn't really have the population/tv market for the NBA either. Just saying many of the same arguments against the NFL were used against the NBA and that turned out ok. Right?

No doubt it helped tremendously that we had the 2 year track record with the Hornets (instead of theoretical numbers in a report somewhere). Yet we didn't have that track record back in 93 when Mr. Norrick decided to "build it and they will come".

Now if the question is can OKC support 2 pro sports at this time, I think that is a another debate entirely.


Larry, I'm all for the build it and they will come mentality, honestly I think it works in most cases. Cities like Philadelphia, New York City, D.C. and others were designed for greatness, a lot in part due to their original street grid structure. Now I know some may think that is laughable, but if you study freemasonry and those cities history it makes more sense. Our street grid system is great for getting around, but it isn't designed for greatness. Notice how the most notable icons in our city are among Classen Blvd, Lincoln Blvd, etc. Our greatest structures were built on boulevards and streets designed for greatness. The same argument is made recently on mixed-use developments and how we have no high end retail, no one has built a shopping center designed for greatness/high-end.

My point is we can design an NFL stadium, but history has proven you need a much bigger TV market than what NBA needs to be profitable. We can't change this without at least doubling if not tripling our population. I was one of those who "knew" or at least believed that we could support NHL or NBA because of the different requirements and what it takes to make a team profitable. I'm not a naysayer, I just don't think NFL is being realistic, I do think NBA/NHL was realistic even before we landed the Hornets, they were just the opportunity we took to get the nation to belive. Show us a city our size that has supported two major league (top 4 sports) franchises successfully longterm and make us believers. Jacksonville, Nashville, Charlotte, San Antonio (tried to get 2) are all much bigger than us with more Fortune 500/white collar jobs and they all struggled. I don't buy the "we're a football state so it'll work" bit.

Again, Metro I tend to agree, the economy of scale with the NFL is undoubtedly greater than NHL/NBA. Did find it interesting (don't have the details or links but it was over somewhere in Doug's blog) that a domed football stadium was actually on the drawing boards at one time (think it was pre-MAPS, probably during the 80s oil boom(?). NFL or not, don't know but am sure that was the idea they had in mind.

I think when OKC gets above 1.5M in the MSA (within 15 miles from downtown) then the city could support the NFL (and OU) along with the NBA. The key, however, will be OWNERSHIP.

If Clay Bennett could own the NFL franchise and the city builds a top knotch stadium that doesn't compete with OU's (meaning, smaller with more luxury to appeal to pro-fans), it will easily work. But such a stadium will be costly, even for OKC and where would we put it? In the Co Op?

Like I said, all of this becomes much easier once OKC's MSA goes over 1.5M and the Thunder develop a solid fanbase. If Clay could own it, then he could co-market the two and share staff and still have a 'monopoly' on the city's sports market. I know people don't like monopolies, but in the sports world they are necessary unless you are a New York, Chicago, or LA/SF.

As for the other points, Im not buying them. There are cities smaller than OKC with NFL and another pro sport with smaller corporate bases. Also, the NFL gets national marketing regardless of the market they are in - being they have the luxury of being America's #1 sport.

If we build something like Seattle's Qwest Field, then it could serve as a multipurpose stadium (hence all star game potential) which would open up a lot of things for OKC provided we have the hotel space.

Again, I think OKC can do it - but it will take a few years of prosperity and population growth to make it successful. The last thing any of us want to see is OKC to get another league and both fail.

Yes, OKC is football country - so it will work (NFL is on Sundays, occasionally Mondays and Thursdays), so there's little competition with OU. OU will always have it's base, but we need a middle class contingent that could support/wants the NFL.

If Paul Allen wants to sell the Seahawks, I would urge Clay and Co to go snap it up to at least get in the game. From there, we could see what happens.

One more thing, I hope OKC supports the AFL. It might not be one of the big 4 major league franchises, but it is major league - and since it is football in football country, you all had better support it!

Again, Metro I tend to agree, the economy of scale with the NFL is undoubtedly greater than NHL/NBA. Did find it interesting (don't have the details or links but it was over somewhere in Doug's blog) that a domed football stadium was actually on the drawing boards at one time (think it was pre-MAPS, probably during the 80s oil boom(?). NFL or not, don't know but am sure that was the idea they had in mind.

Yes, I remember at one time there was a serious proposal for a domed stadium in Oklahoma City. I believe it was supposed to be at the fair grounds and initially to seat around 40 - 50 thousand people. I think one of the inspirations was to get the National Finals Rodeo back from Las Vegas.

just a thought/question.

if the city were to become serious again about a stadium, would people want it downtown or at the fairgrounds? or somewhere else?

we've seen the success that sports has given to downtown (and the city in general with the arenas being downtown), would we also want a stadium downtown?

just a thought/question.

if the city were to become serious again about a stadium, would people want it downtown or at the fairgrounds? or somewhere else?

we've seen the success that sports has given to downtown (and the city in general with the arenas being downtown), would we also want a stadium downtown?

In my opinion, the best option for a stadium would be along the South bank of the river across from downtown. I don't see any areas in the immediate downtown vicinity that would work for that and which could include any significant parking which would be required. We don't want any vast new parking lots built in the CBD taking up valuable development space.

If Clay Bennett could own the NFL franchise and the city builds a top knotch stadium that doesn't compete with OU's (meaning, smaller with more luxury to appeal to pro-fans), it will easily work.

There are cities smaller than OKC with NFL and another pro sport with smaller corporate bases. Also, the NFL gets national marketing regardless of the market they are in - being they have the luxury of being America's #1 sport.

If Paul Allen wants to sell the Seahawks, I would urge Clay and Co to go snap it up to at least get in the game. From there, we could see what happens.



Bennett is not as rich as you guys think. Bennett's crew, and especially Bennett, don't have enough money to buy another franchise. I'm willing to bet they are close to max on being leveraged and shrewd enough not to leverage any more wealth on a franchise.

As far as a location for an "NFL" stadium, I'd prefer the fairgrounds area over DT. They could have it near the river there at the Amarillo Junction. They would have great zoom ins of the river area and DT. NFL stadiums need a sea of parking unlike NBA arenas. It would also jumpstart some development that is much more needed over by the fairgrounds area.

Ran across an article not to long ago that that is what the Dell Campus was supposed to do. How much development around their campus has happened or is this just another Bass Pro type deal? Promises made and then forgotten or explained away?

Ran across an article not to long ago that that is what the Dell Campus was supposed to do. How much development around their campus has happened or is this just another Bass Pro type deal? Promises made and then forgotten or explained away?

If you look at the area along 15th street going west to Meridian and beyond, there has been significant development. Most of that is closer to Meridian but having the Dell Campus and the 15th street reconstruction all the way to MacArthur is really opening that area up. I see all of that area along 15th being developed very heavily in the next 20 years. A company like Dell can always have employment ups and downs but this is absolutely not a bad deal for the city and has taken an area that was basically an empty eyesore and turned it into something that is at least mildly attractive.

If you look at the area along 15th street going west to Meridian and beyond, there has been significant development. Most of that is closer to Meridian but having the Dell Campus and the 15th street reconstruction all the way to MacArthur is really opening that area up. I see all of that area along 15th being developed very heavily in the next 20 years. A company like Dell can always have employment ups and downs but this is absolutely not a bad deal for the city and has taken an area that was basically an empty eyesore and turned it into something that is at least mildly attractive.

Really? I just drove by (looking from the interstate) there Saturday and the surrounding area looked just like it did before Dell built there. I agree the Del campus itself is a vast improvement over what was there (apparently a City owned "eyesore"). Maybe development will happen in 20 years (but Dell could be long gone by then). We (think it was Spartan that brought it up) had a discussion in some other thread (http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/21191-city-approves-2million-incentive-paycom-2.html, #28) about the amount of jobs that were supposed to have come with various schemes (including Dell) but never seemed to materialize.

Not taking a position but asking questions...has it delivered as promised?

City of Oklahoma City | Dell, Inc. Project (http://www.okc.gov/projects/dell/q_and_a.html)


What was the City’s portion of the incentive package?
$5.5 million in job creation incentives - which will be funded by a forgivable section 108 loan and up to $11.7 million in infrastructure improvements. The $11.7 will be funded by a new Tax Increment Financing District.

What kind of return do we expect on this investment?
Based on a three year ramp up of 3,000 employees, we anticipate an annual direct economic impact of $246.5 million and an indirect economic impact of $135.9 million in year three. During the l 4 year ramp up period, we anticipate a cumulative overall economic impact of $764.7 million.

From a taxes standpoint, we anticipate a direct real estate tax impact of $664,807 over the initial three year period and Indirect Property tax impact of $5,544,246. By year three, we are anticipating an annual direct property tax to be $329,526 and indirect property taxes to be 3.1 million. As for sales tax, we anticipate n annual local sales tax impact of $2.0 million.

Why did the City provide such an attractive incentive package?
The City sees this Dell facility as an important, strategic decision. This facility will provide good jobs and creates an anchor development on the Oklahoma River that will spur housing, entertainment and other amenities. If you look at the development that has occurred in other cities around Dell sites, you will see the enormous potential this location brings to our City.

What is the value of the land? How does this impact the river development?
The land chosen for this site was owned by the City and was being held in reserve for the development of the river. There will be a revision of the river’s master plan to reflect this change in development. This facility will greatly enhance the value of surrounding properties, much the same way the MAPS projects have enhanced the value of Downtown and Bricktown property.

Again, my question is, has all of the above actually happened?

A forgivable loan sounds like they didn't have to pay it back?

Has the $11.7M thru the TIF materialized (or on track)?

Has the return on investment been achieved?

Have there been 3,000 decent paying jobs ($40K +)?

Have the various taxes lived up to projections?

Has the development of "housing, entertainment and other amenities" happened in the same way as it did "that has occurred in other cities around Dell sites"?

Really? I just drove by (looking from the interstate) there Saturday and the surrounding area looked just like it did before Dell built there. I agree the Del campus itself is a vast improvement over what was there (apparently a City owned "eyesore"). Maybe development will happen in 20 years (but Dell could be long gone by then). We (think it was Spartan that brought it up) had a discussion in some other thread (http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/21191-city-approves-2million-incentive-paycom-2.html, #28) about the amount of jobs that were supposed to have come with various schemes (including Dell) but never seemed to materialize.

Not taking a position but asking questions...has it delivered as promised?

City of Oklahoma City | Dell, Inc. Project (http://www.okc.gov/projects/dell/q_and_a.html)



Again, my question is, has all of the above actually happened?

A forgivable loan sounds like they didn't have to pay it back?

Has the $11.7M thru the TIF materialized (or on track)?

Has the return on investment been achieved?

Have there been 3,000 decent paying jobs ($40K +)?

Have the various taxes lived up to projections?

Has the development of "housing, entertainment and other amenities" happened in the same way as it did "that has occurred in other cities around Dell sites"?

I'm not taking a position on whether Dell has delivered as promissed. I just contend that this area wouldn't have changed at all without Dell and there would be little oportunity for further development to the West for years. I don't think anyone ever expected that the public housing to the South would be moved or would change and that's the main area you see near Dell from the highway.

I'm not taking a position on whether Dell has delivered as promissed. I just contend that this area wouldn't have changed at all without Dell and there would be little oportunity for further development to the West for years. I don't think anyone ever expected that the public housing to the South would be moved or would change and that's the main area you see near Dell from the highway.

And this has what to do with the NBA and All Star Weekend ?

And this has what to do with the NBA and All Star Weekend ?

Nothing really but it went something like this....Domed stadiums for All Star Weekend >> NFL >> Fairgrounds location >> promises made but not kept >> Bass Pro >> Dell

And this has what to do with the NBA and All Star Weekend ?

Junkie, I didn't bring this up. I was just responding to previous comments. If that isn't allowed, I'm sorry.

ljbab728: Don't think anything came out of left field, just the natural flow of conversation is all. That said, it makes it soooooo easy to get of topic and if one doesn't go back and read the conversation, the last few posts might appear to be totally irrelevant.

Some suggest that you answer in a more appropriate thread, but unless you take the threaded conversation with you, the answer will be out of context and probably as disconcerting.

And this has what to do with the NBA and All Star Weekend ?Hey cut ljbab728 some slack, he didn't ask you what the Union Presidents being paid by the City had to do with the performance of the Chamber of Commerce, did he? Pot, Kettle, Black

Hey cut ljbab728 some slack, he didn't ask you what the Union Presidents being paid by the City had to do with the performance of the Chamber of Commerce, did he? Pot, Kettle, Black

Andy157. I'm simply amazed by your lack of intelligence, must have been a lean year when you applied to the OKC Fire Department.

Is the 157 your ranking in a class of 156 ? or is this the number of hours you spend trolling OKC Talk each month ?

The last All Star game drew over 100,000 people or about 81 thousand more than will fit in the Ford Center. Now I love OKC and the Thunder but reality tells me that ecomonics will win out every time. :doh:

Speculation of this does bring up another question though and that is how soon will the Thunder outgrow the Ford Center? If their popularity continues at the same rate will the first MAPS 4 project be a larger arena (40-50th) to replace the Cox Center?

Andy157. I'm simply amazed by your lack of intelligence, must have been a lean year when you applied to the OKC Fire Department.

Is the 157 your ranking in a class of 156 ? or is this the number of hours you spend trolling OKC Talk each month ?

Junkie, and what does this have to do with an NBA all star weekend? LOL

The last All Star game drew over 100,000 people or about 81 thousand more than will fit in the Ford Center. Now I love OKC and the Thunder but reality tells me that ecomonics will win out every time. :doh:

Speculation of this does bring up another question though and that is how soon will the Thunder outgrow the Ford Center? If their popularity continues at the same rate will the first MAPS 4 project be a larger arena (40-50th) to replace the Cox Center?

Personally think the talk of a replacement arena will begin about the time of the Teams 1st opt out clause. IIRC, is 6 years after the renovations are complete. Think the 6 year clock begins 2 years after (to form the "base" number of the performance based clause). That's if attendance falls by just 15%. I know, why do you need a bigger arena if attendance has fallen, but the same rational was used by Bennett in demanding a new arena in Seattle. On the other hand if attendance is still high (more sell-outs than not, the push will be that we need more seating (logical). So 8 years form now (mol)?

Keep in mind the talk of a replacement arena by the Mayor for the Ford was at its 5 year anniversary. They insist the current renovations will make the Ford "like a new arena" and even if it does, what is going to make the new "state of the art" arena that meets NBA standards last any longer than the original Ford did (it was "state of the art" and meet NBA standards too).

MAPS 4 can't realistically kick in for approximately 8 years too and that brings us back to the timing of the opt out clause.

We're not going to need a much bigger arena for any significant period of time. New York City has an arena that holds only 1500 more people than the Ford Center, and they've got ten times the population we do.

Bennett's demand for a new arena did not have nearly as much to do with the actual number of seats as it did with other amenities such as suites. It probably had to do with the Key Arena lease as well, which made it almost impossible for the team to generate enough income to cover payroll. The Key could seat just over 17000 for a basketball game, which is not that much smaller than the Ford Center.

Regardless of when we start talking about a new arena, the amount of time until construction would actually start on it is probably much farther out than an additional six years. It will be 7 years until we could vote on a new MAPS, and judging from the time frames we're hearing with this MAPS, even were an arena to be on the ballot, we're probably looking at another 15 years or so until completion. The Ford Center has been open since 2002, so it could easily be 22-25 years old when replaced.

At this point in time, why should we speculate about a new arena. None of us really knows anything, and this sort of speculation simply seems designed to stir up ill feelings, without any real evidence that it's more than speculation. If Bennett asks for a new arena in six years, then he does, and we can talk about it then. He may not. No one here has a crystal ball.

Andy157. I'm simply amazed by your lack of intelligence, must have been a lean year when you applied to the OKC Fire Department.

Is the 157 your ranking in a class of 156 ? or is this the number of hours you spend trolling OKC Talk each month ? junkie even with your third grade comeback you really know how to hurt a guy. You don't have to rub it in because I wasn't smart enough to operate a riding lawn mower like you. Sure I tried to get on with the Parks department, but I couldn't hack it, so I hope your happy, it took me 20 years to get over my shame.

junkie even with your third grade comeback you really know how to hurt a guy. You don't have to rub it in because I wasn't smart enough to operate a riding lawn mower like you. Sure I tried to get on with the Parks department, but I couldn't hack it, so I hope your happy, it took me 20 years to get over my shame.


I didn't operate riding mowers, as a supervisor, I instructed Union Employees how to do it. I must tell you Andy, those Union Employees were difficult to train, all they were concerned about was (what times is break, what time is lunch, when do we get paid, how much of a raise am I getting, when are we getting new equipment, etc;)

It took you 20 years to get over the fact the the Parks Dept. knew you would be a problem employee and not hiring you, how long is it going to take for you to get over MAPS3 passing so you'll stop bitching and whining ? (or to put it in layman's terms, shut up, work with what you have, be thankful you have a job and do it)

Once we increase our hotel-room accommodations only then will we be able to pluck a plum like the NBA All Star Weekend.

Building and expanding our ability to host conventions will be a start as MAPS 3 projects--Convention Center and Modern Street Car projects are completed. These project are important because with them comes new high rise hotels and possible expansion of existing downtown hotel rooms.

We need to become a tier II convention city, our current 12,000-plus metro hotel rooms are not going to cut it. We will need over 4,000-5,000 hotel rooms downtown and exceed 16,000 - 20,000 hotels rooms in the OKC metro area. We should reach that plateau sometime after 2015!

The new convention center should generate more hotels and hopefully a couple of hotels exceeding 600-750 rooms downtown.