When the citizens voted to add 200 additional Police officers and Firefighters the 3/4 of a cent sales tax was created. This sales tax has provided funding exclusively for the public safety area. This sales tax also provided relief to the general fund. On several occasions the public safety sector has shown the city was using tactics to use this dedicated fund to fund "other projects". They appear to have done this again.

Maps3 passed and 180 is in the works, but now we are considering reducing ESSENTIAL SERVICES by 12%. Our population has grown by approx. 100,000 people in the last 20 years and we have not kept up with growth. Now our council is considering taking us backward. Please take an opportunity to contact your council member and ask them to keep the momentun moving forward with the growth of our city and keep our ESSENTIAL SERVICES growing.

When the citizens voted to add 200 additional Police officers and Firefighters the 3/4 of a cent sales tax was created. This sales tax has provided funding exclusively for the public safety area. This sales tax also provided relief to the general fund. On several occasions the public safety sector has shown the city was using tactics to use this dedicated fund to fund "other projects". They appear to have done this again.

Maps3 passed and 180 is in the works, but now we are considering reducing ESSENTIAL SERVICES by 12%. Our population has grown by approx. 100,000 people in the last 20 years and we have not kept up with growth. Now our council is considering taking us backward. Please take an opportunity to contact your council member and ask them to keep the momentun moving forward with the growth of our city and keep our ESSENTIAL SERVICES growing.

WOW! That is hard to believe. Can you point in a direction where you gathered this info? Thanks for the heads up.

When the citizens voted to add 200 additional Police officers and Firefighters the 3/4 of a cent sales tax was created. This sales tax has provided funding exclusively for the public safety area. This sales tax also provided relief to the general fund. On several occasions the public safety sector has shown the city was using tactics to use this dedicated fund to fund "other projects". They appear to have done this again.

Maps3 passed and 180 is in the works, but now we are considering reducing ESSENTIAL SERVICES by 12%. Our population has grown by approx. 100,000 people in the last 20 years and we have not kept up with growth. Now our council is considering taking us backward. Please take an opportunity to contact your council member and ask them to keep the momentun moving forward with the growth of our city and keep our ESSENTIAL SERVICES growing.

Mike, I agree with you 100% that we need more Police/Fire, but in the present economy, it's just not possible. We must continue to grow (MAPS3, Core to Shore, Project 180), these will do nothing but help our City grow, expand the tax base and hopefully allow the economical situation to improve sooner rather than later.

Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

By the sound of it, our city leaders have not planned ahead and are now feeling the results of it. You don't by a Mercedes if you can't afford to change the oil and perform basic maintenance on it. It will fall apart and be a money pit if you don't take care of it, just like our Essential services.

Project 180 has NOTHING to do with public safety funding.

People keep saying this (not on here but in my family and friends). They keep saying the city is taking dollars dedicated to public safety and using those dollars on other projects and in other departments but not one single person has provided a news video or article that backs up their claim. Nor has anyone provided any data of any sort.

I can get on a forum or on the phone with a friend and say the city is moving money raised from the public safety sales tax and is going to use it to buy beer and legos. Doesn't make it true.

If this is happening its bad news and should be brought to everyone's attention...but why can't anyone provide anything beyond heresay?

Norman is building a new fire dept, so is Moore - OKC has 500% more population than Norman, is OKC so broke they cant build a new fire department? Will a fire department in Moore, that is 2 miles away from the OKC border not go there for emergency services?

The new Moore fire station is on Sunnylane, south of S 19th street, the new Norman fire department is on 36th west, north of Indian hills - also very close to south okc area. Maybe OKC doesn't need new fire stations, as the suburbs are building them so close to the city limits? Any new fire stations going up in the NW OKC area/Piedmont/Edmond?

Yes its true OKC is using money to sales tax dollars to pay for MAPS3 projects. If it were to dedicate that money to public safety that would be against what the public voted for. So the reason that public safety would be cut by 15% is probably because sales tax receipts are WAY DOWN, due to the economy. Sorry its not Mick taking the money and spending it on special projects. Tulsa reduced their force by over 15% and its not because they put it all in the BOk center.

And Project 180, is a TIF, meaning property taxes and its based on property that wasn't previously on the rolls, not sales taxes.

It's actually a 12% cut for all departments. And Tulsa does not have a dedicated 3/4 cent public safety sales tax. As to the other tax dollars going to pet projects, i would ask where did the money come from for the new hockey team? Does someone know what fund these dollars were pulled out of?

It's actually a 12% cut for all departments. And Tulsa does not have a dedicated 3/4 cent public safety sales tax. As to the other tax dollars going to pet projects, i would ask where did the money come from for the new hockey team? Does someone know what fund these dollars were pulled out of?I believe it came from the MAPS 4 KIDS Use Tax, but without checking to be sure, I wouldn't swear to that.

People keep saying this (not on here but in my family and friends). They keep saying the city is taking dollars dedicated to public safety and using those dollars on other projects and in other departments but not one single person has provided a news video or article that backs up their claim. Nor has anyone provided any data of any sort.

I can get on a forum or on the phone with a friend and say the city is moving money raised from the public safety sales tax and is going to use it to buy beer and legos. Doesn't make it true.

If this is happening its bad news and should be brought to everyone's attention...but why can't anyone provide anything beyond heresay?I believe it is safe to say that NONE of the 3/4 cent Public Safety Sales Tax is being spent in any other department(s) other than the Fire and Police departments. However, that does not mean the tax has always been spent properly, or legally for that matter, because it hasn't, and that is a fact, not heresay.

I believe it is safe to say that NONE of the 3/4 cent Public Safety Sales Tax is being spent in any other department(s) other than the Fire and Police departments. However, that does not mean the tax has always been spent properly, or legally for that matter, because it hasn't, and that is a fact, not heresay.

That's a pretty harsh accusation. Can you provide factual information showing how money was spent illegally? I dont know if this is true or not, I'd just like to see some facts - since you say this is fact.

When the citizens voted to add 200 additional Police officers and Firefighters the 3/4 of a cent sales tax was created. This sales tax has provided funding exclusively for the public safety area. This sales tax also provided relief to the general fund. On several occasions the public safety sector has shown the city was using tactics to use this dedicated fund to fund "other projects". They appear to have done this again.

Maps3 passed and 180 is in the works, but now we are considering reducing ESSENTIAL SERVICES by 12%. Our population has grown by approx. 100,000 people in the last 20 years and we have not kept up with growth. Now our council is considering taking us backward. Please take an opportunity to contact your council member and ask them to keep the momentun moving forward with the growth of our city and keep our ESSENTIAL SERVICES growing.I'm still trying to find the 15 Fire recruits who are being paid $961,777. out of the PSST through a "other project" expenditure. Do you know where they are at? It's like they're ghost.

That's a pretty harsh accusation. Can you provide factual information showing how money was spent illegally? I dont know if this is true or not, I'd just like to see some facts - since you say this is fact.Doug has the facts posted on his blog.

Pw405, station 13 has a first in response area that is larger than the city of Moore. It also comes within 6 blocks of both of the new stations on the east side of Moore. Moore would respond to an address if it was requested. It's called mutual aid. It is not used for regular situations. That is just how it is you get the service you pay for in the place you live.

The city of Moore pays their firefighters generally the same as Okc's previous year contract. So why is it they are hiring and we are facing layoffs. You can't tell me a city of 30 some square miles is doing better than a city of over 624 square miles.

Andy157, can you link to Doug's blog?

Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

By the sound of it, our city leaders have not planned ahead and are now feeling the results of it. You don't by a Mercedes if you can't afford to change the oil and perform basic maintenance on it. It will fall apart and be a money pit if you don't take care of it, just like our Essential services.

barnold, apparently every city and state in the country has the same pour planning. They are all in trouble, not just us.

Pw405, station 13 has a first in response area that is larger than the city of Moore. It also comes within 6 blocks of both of the new stations on the east side of Moore. Moore would respond to an address if it was requested. It's called mutual aid. It is not used for regular situations. That is just how it is you get the service you pay for in the place you live.

The city of Moore pays their firefighters generally the same as Okc's previous year contract. So why is it they are hiring and we are facing layoffs. You can't tell me a city of 30 some square miles is doing better than a city of over 624 square miles.

Actually Mike, the city of Moore went around us on pay and benefits last year. The previous agreement, where they got the wages and benefits that OKC got the previous year, was holding them back. Their city manager asked them if they were tired of waiting on the city of OKC to catch up with the 10 city average. Of course they said yes.

Wambo, how are they doing that? They don't have a major league city. Where's their Air Force base, basketball team, lakes with restaurants, convention centers and federal and state buildings. We have so much more than them how can this be possible?

Project 180 has NOTHING to do with public safety funding.

That's all well and good, but next time your interviewing the mayor for some story maybe you could ask him about his progress on keeping the promises he made to use the MAPS3 use tax to hire more public safety employees. Or is the fact that he's been completely stonewalled, on those very public promises, not newsworthy enough. You could approach it from the angle of how could a two time mayor, running for his third term, not know he didn't have the authority to make those promises. Or did he know it and just not care. Now those are answers that would be interesting to read.

That's all well and good, but next time your interviewing the mayor for some story maybe you could ask him about his progress on keeping the promises he made to use the MAPS3 use tax to hire more public safety employees. Or is the fact that he's been completely stonewalled, on those very public promises, not newsworthy enough. You could approach it from the angle of how could a two time mayor, running for his third term, not know he didn't have the authority to make those promises. Or did he know it and just not care. Now those are answers that would be interesting to read.

The last article I read on this (sorry don't have a link handy) indicated that the Council had come to some sort of an agreement and resolved the MAPS 3 Use Tax issue. Does anyone else remember this or have the link?

I believe it came from the MAPS 4 KIDS Use Tax, but without checking to be sure, I wouldn't swear to that.

True, but it was a loan and is to be paid back to the City. If were going to state something, lets tell the whole story.

Wambo, how are they doing that? They don't have a major league city. Where's their Air Force base, basketball team, lakes with restaurants, convention centers and federal and state buildings. We have so much more than them how can this be possible?

When did OKC get an Air Force Base, did Tinker move ?

True, but it was a loan and is to be paid back to the City. If were going to state something, lets tell the whole story.

NewsOK (http://www.newsok.com/for-ice-hockey-oklahoma-city-to-upgrade-convention-site/article/3440114)

For ice hockey, Oklahoma City to upgrade convention site (Oklahoman, 2/17/10)


Oklahoma City will pay for $3.2 million in improvements to the Cox Convention Center for ice hockey through a tax related to MAPS for Kids.

The money will be reimbursed through revenue generated by the new American Hockey League franchise...

...

The money will come from a use tax that was established after voters approved the MAPS for Kids sales tax. The city has often relied on the use tax to pay for capital improvements.

City Manager Jim Couch said the use tax money will be reimbursed through hockey revenues and revenue for other Cox Center events.

When did OKC get an Air Force Base, did Tinker move ?

LOL...I had always thought it was in Mid-Del, but looked at a map and Tinker is in the OKC city limits.

Junkie, you got to be kidding. Tinker is 100% in Okc. The only part that isn't is the approach the county bought.

LOL...I had always thought it was in Mid-Del, but looked at a map and Tinker is in the OKC city limits.

True that. The benefit to the Mid-Del area is that the employees tend to live or shop in that area, but not always. Tinker employees can be found living anywhere in the metro and way beyond. Lunch is certainly a boon to Air Depot or 29th St. merchants.

Just to get back on the subject, when the citizens voted to add 200 additional firefighters the total manpower was 748. After all of them were hired and 5 new stations were built we had 948. If as reported by channel 5 this morning, discussions are being held at council to lay off 139. That would bring us to 809. That is a far cry from what was voted on. Please contact your council member and tell them you want the city to keep up with the growth in population and not to cut essential services!

I wonder how much more firefighters cost in 2010 than they did back then?

Sounds to me this is a good time to reconsider consolidating services into a county operation instead of individual municipalities. I know Mick slightly pushed for this a few years ago, but some communities didn't welcome him. Sorry folks, but this is part of operating in a major metro area. At some point, countywide services make more sense. I think the dialogues should at least begin.

Sounds to me this is a good time to reconsider consolidating services into a county operation instead of individual municipalities. I know Mick slightly pushed for this a few years ago, but some communities didn't welcome him. Sorry folks, but this is part of operating in a major metro area. At some point, countywide services make more sense. I think the dialogues should at least begin.

Not gonna happen. The folks in Edmond don't want to pay for police in fire in NE OKC... and guess which voting block has A LOT more clout?

While you can argue about efficiency and all that 'til your blue in the face (and probably be right), the fact is that the more well-off communities aren't going to let this happen, and without an agreement or legislative action at the state level, this'll never happen.

Midtowner, can that be a relevant argument? Wages increase as the tax collections increase. The PD and FD bargain for a % of the ten city average. So it all seems like it is increasing in equal amounts.

You are correct about there is never going to be a county fire dept. Same reason as why the small depts. are still not annexed. People won't give up their own city dept. Alot of people don't want to be considered in Okc or Norman when they live in Moore. Kinda a pride in ownership of their own city.

A pride that holds back efficiency.

Not gonna happen. The folks in Edmond don't want to pay for police in fire in NE OKC... and guess which voting block has A LOT more clout?

While you can argue about efficiency and all that 'til your blue in the face (and probably be right), the fact is that the more well-off communities aren't going to let this happen, and without an agreement or legislative action at the state level, this'll never happen.

You are absolutely correct, this will never happen.

Midtowner, can that be a relevant argument? Wages increase as the tax collections increase. The PD and FD bargain for a % of the ten city average. So it all seems like it is increasing in equal amounts.


So then wages should decrease as tax collections decrease?

Midtowner, that falls under the cities ability to fund essential services. Consider at city that has had a downturn in tax collections, and is broke and you are correct. But you also have to look at a city that has had the same downturn yet they have between 80-90 million dollars in reseves. That city has the ability to fund those services through the downturn.

Midtowner, that falls under the cities ability to fund essential services. Consider at city that has had a downturn in tax collections, and is broke and you are correct. But you also have to look at a city that has had the same downturn yet they have between 80-90 million dollars in reseves. That city has the ability to fund those services through the downturn.

Are you saying the city has 80-90MM in reserve?

We are looking Into it and it is not unreasonable for them to have that much in reserve.

We are looking Into it and it is not unreasonable for them to have that much in reserve.

I have a feeling that even if things were running smooth and we did have that much in reserve that the unions would be insatiable with regard to wage increases and new personnel. In fact, they'd hold up the existence of that reserve fund as exhibit "a" as to why the city could afford those things.

We are looking Into it and it is not unreasonable for them to have that much in reserve.


By law the city has to maintain a 6% rainy day fund. RESERVES.
OKC the last time I checked had over 10%, which should equate to
somewhere in the vicinity of 85 million dollars, but who is counting.

If this is not a rainy day, I dont know what is.

By law the city has to maintain a 6% rainy day fund. RESERVES.
OKC the last time I checked had over 10%, which should equate to
somewhere in the vicinity of 85 million dollars, but who is counting.

If this is not a rainy day, I dont know what is.

The one variable that the city is well aware of is both of the contracts for the P and F, are based on the ability to pay. That is why they attempt to be broke and plead poor everytime a P and F contract comes up for renewal.
I think the point that Mike and others are trying to make is that they have heard this song and dance many times in the past. Ex. The city revenues are up, they plead poor, they fight the p and f for everything they are entitled too according to the 10 city avg and end up getting a contract settled 6 month into the next fiscal year. Sound familiar. From what I am too understand, this is a common occurrence with the P and F contract negotiations, so I think that it would be tough for PS employees to believe anything that the city tells them.

According to city budget director, sales tax revenue has been down for sometime now. Before the sales tax numbers were down, okc enjoyed a 10% plus rainy day fund. Maybe Andy could help us out here with some figures.

I have a feeling that even if things were running smooth and we did have that much in reserve that the unions would be insatiable with regard to wage increases and new personnel. In fact, they'd hold up the existence of that reserve fund as exhibit "a" as to why the city could afford those things.

The unions are the firefighters and police officers. That is who the unions are not some guys from back east who break legs and bury people in concrete. lol
Makes for some good reading though.

If being insatiable is wanting to be paid and staffed like your peer fire depts. and police depts. then so be it. Cities like Moore, Norman, Edmond, MWC, they seem to be making it happen. They are getting away from us, OKC is holding them back instead of being the standard that they attempt to measure too. Great job.

Midtowner you just couldn't help it! Here we are having a decent conversation and you have to go and act like that.

You seem to want to lump all unions together and you can't, the police and fire unions do not control who gets a job, don't control contracts for work, don't decide who gets preferential treatment like the unions back east. They represent employees in regards to wages, benefits and working conditions. They represent us and that's all, they can't control who gets the contract for garbage removal or how much the price of cement is!

Let's back up and recall that we understand things are bad and are still trying to give back the arbitraitors award of a raise. We are people who live in the area and really want what is best for all of us.

I wonder how much more firefighters cost in 2010 than they did back then?

I wonder how much more a city manager costs in 2010? Think the percentages of the two are equal? Betcha a coke the CM is much, much more nowadays.

People keep saying this (not on here but in my family and friends). They keep saying the city is taking dollars dedicated to public safety and using those dollars on other projects and in other departments but not one single person has provided a news video or article that backs up their claim. Nor has anyone provided any data of any sort.

I can get on a forum or on the phone with a friend and say the city is moving money raised from the public safety sales tax and is going to use it to buy beer and legos. Doesn't make it true.

If this is happening its bad news and should be brought to everyone's attention...but why can't anyone provide anything beyond heresay?

While I don't have the specific links handy, I hope this helps as an example (was part of one of the various Fire/Police threads or maybe the Hockey/Cox improvements)

Reportedly, the original source of funds for the Cox Hockey improvements is from the MAPS for Kids Use Tax (that tax ended over a year ago). This is not to be confused with the actual MAPS for Kids tax which was to be exclusively for the schools. “Use taxes are charged instead of sales taxes to businesses that buy items outside of Oklahoma City for use within the city.” (if the other state doesn’t impose a tax). The accompanying Use Tax can be used for whatever purpose the Council decides. Originally that money was earmarked for public safety. The Council recently decided to take that earmarked money (changing their intent, just as they did under MAPS with the Bass Pro deal). This is perfectly legal (as the court decided w/Bass Pro). But just because it is legal, doesn't make it right. IMO

They are in essence loaning themselves the money thru the operator of the Cox (SMG) to be paid back at least partially through the $2 ticket charge. Presuming sell-outs with a seating capacity of 13,399 x $2 = $26,798/game x 40 reg season games = $1.072M/year. (20 dates are reserved in April and May for any potential playoff games which would contribute). Best case scenario isn’t all that bad in number of years to pay back the loan. Unless you are depending on that $4M and the public safety equipment it would have purchased. In theory, after the loan is paid back, the money will once again be used for the earmarked public safety.

Are you saying the city has 80-90MM in reserve?

Sounds about right, according to the latest Budget Report (available for download from the City's site, okc.gov), pg 33 (42 of the 633 pdf file)

FY 08/09 $87,290,555
FY 09/10 $80,076,782

Take a look at the myriad of funds the City has (many are dedicated, but a lot are discretionary) pg 34 (43 of the pdf file) some duplicates may remain, some were listed more than once)

1. General Fund
2. Internal Service Funds
3. Court Administration & Training Fund
4. Emergency Management Fund
5. Fire Sales Tax Fund
6. Hotel/Motel Tax Fund*
7. MAPS Operations Fund*
8. Medical Service (Ambulance) Program Fund
9. OCMAPS Sales Tax Fund*
10. Police Sales Tax Fund*
11. Police/Fire Capital Equipment Use Tax Fund
12. Zoo Sales Tax Fund
13. Airports Cash Fund
14. Solid Waste Management Cash Fund
15. Storm Water Drainage Utility Fund*
16. Public Transportation and Parking Cash Fund
17. Water/Wastewater Cash Fund
18. Capital Improvement Projects Fund
19. City and Schools Capital Projects Use Tax Fund
20. Hotel / Motel Tax Fund*
21. MAPS Operations Fund*
22. MAPS Sales Tax Fund
23. OCMAPS Sales Tax Fund*
24. Police / Fire Capital Equipment Sales Tax Fund
25. Sports Facilities Sales Tax Fund
26. Sports Facilities Use Tax Fund
27. Storm Water Drainage Fund*
28. Street & Alley Fund
29. Arbitrage Reserve Fund
30. Asset Forfeiture Fund
31. Debt Service Fund
32. Grants Management Fund
33. OKC Improvement & Special Assess District
34. Special Purpose Fund
*Indicates the Fund has both an Operating and Non-Operating Component

I wonder how much more firefighters cost in 2010 than they did back then?This City has more management employees than it does Firefighters. How much more do management employees cost in 2010 than they did back then?

We are in a recession, if your worried about crime, buy a gun, protect yourself. If your worried about fires, get insurance. If your house catches fire even if they put it out you are most likely going to have to replace everything anyways due to smoke and water damage. Money is better spent elsewhere given the current state of the economy.

This City has more management employees than it does Firefighters. How much more do management employees cost in 2010 than they did back then?

Sorry to disagree, but this statement is 100% false.

A pride that holds back efficiency.

Being from MWC, I don't want a county fire or police departments due to the fact that MWC fire is the only high rated fire service in the state which lowers my home insurance premiums. I don't want a drop off in the availabilty of service due to increased response times. The surrounding cities/towns have mutual aid agreements in the county to assist in fire/police protection as it stands now. Why should they consent to county wide services?

Junkie, I'm prettey sure that was a joke!

Unclefrank, you need to read what ewoodard said. You cut those services and your insurance will go through the roof.

Just what we need,more police to hand out more tickets. More speed traps around the city is just what we need. They can cry all they want but if more police are hired you can count on more tickets being handed out. I am all for law & order but handing out tickets they way they do will not garner the police any sympathy from the working class.

Yes I did get a speeding ticket the other day and never saw the motorcycle cop. Beware if you are driving down NW 122nd between Council & Rockwell. I came out of an addition and see road construction on 122nd st. I did not see any workers anywhere and there was also no other traffic. I get my speed up to 40 ( the normal speed on 122nd) and there he his in my rear view. Never once seen a speed limit sign as I came out of an addition around the middle part between Rockwell & Council. Drove the same are again and if you go that way you will not see a speed limit sign. So if you assume it's 40 mph that motorcycle cop will be in your back pocket. Speed trap? I would say yes.

This is why I would vote NO to add anymore police on the streets.

Just what we need,more police to hand out more tickets. More speed traps around the city is just what we need. They can cry all they want but if more police are hired you can count on more tickets being handed out. I am all for law & order but handing out tickets they way they do will not garner the police any sympathy from the working class.

Yes I did get a speeding ticket the other day and never saw the motorcycle cop. Beware if you are driving down NW 122nd between Council & Rockwell. I came out of an addition and see road construction on 122nd st. I did not see any workers anywhere and there was also no other traffic. I get my speed up to 40 ( the normal speed on 122nd) and there he his in my rear view. Never once seen a speed limit sign as I came out of an addition around the middle part between Rockwell & Council. Drove the same are again and if you go that way you will not see a speed limit sign. So if you assume it's 40 mph that motorcycle cop will be in your back pocket. Speed trap? I would say yes.

This is why I would vote NO to add anymore police on the streets.
Sound like you need to take some pictures and show up to fight this in court. If it's as you say above, you'll probably beat this ticket.

This City has more management employees than it does Firefighters. How much more do management employees cost in 2010 than they did back then?


Sorry to disagree, but this statement is 100% false.

LOL ... OK guys, neither provided links or numbers...which is correct?

From the City’s 2009/2010 Budget Report (available for download at okc.gov), pg 55 (64 of the 663 pdf file)

22.7% Management
23.3% Police
21.3% Fire


The Fraternal Order of Police (FOP) represents all sworn positions within the Police Department. The proposed budget includes 1,038 FOP positions.

The International Association of Firefighters (IAFF) represents all of the uniformed positions within the Fire Department. The proposed budget contains 950 uniform fire positions.

Management includes employees on the Management, Auditors, and Legal pay plans. Each of these pay plans includes administrative support, professional, and managerial positions. In addition, those employees who report directly to the City Manager are included as Management. This group totals 1,012 positions in the proposed budget.

Debate away....LOL

LOL ... OK guys, neither provided links or numbers...which is correct?

From the City’s 2009/2010 Budget Report (available for download at okc.gov), pg 55 (64 of the 663 pdf file)

22.7% Management
23.3% Police
21.3% Fire



Debate away....LOL

The percentages quoted are for funding, not numbers. While it may cost more for Management employees, theres definitely not more Management Employees than Fireman.

The percentages quoted are for funding, not numbers. While it may cost more for Management employees, theres definitely not more Management Employees than Fireman.

Again, you made a claim without any support. And sorry, but you are incorrect.

The title of the Chart that had the percentages was "Positions by Category"

On the same referenced page it says: "4,455 positions throughout the City."
Amazingly, if you divide the number of positions of each category by the total number of employees, it matches the percentages I posted from the chart (the text that was quoted under the percentages you seem to have issue with).

Firefighters: "950 uniform fire positions". (21.3%)
Management: "1,012 positions". (22.7%)

Please go to okc.gov (think it is the Budget & Finance tab) and download the 2009/2020 Final Budget Report and see it for yourself. Then, if you want to dispute these numbers, talk to Mr. Couch. But in any case, which number is higher?

Junkie, Boo Yeah! That guy seems to know something! Anyway, just having some fun.

I have read on here that the city would be laying off more people if Maps3 had not passed. Riddle me this, what would things have looked like if the one cent tax had been used for 18-24 months for a public safety shot in the arm. Then it could have transitioned into the one cent that was going to build all of our fun things. That to me would have made alot of sense and I posted it on here. Would the Thunder still be in the play offs? Would we still have the Redhawks and all of the great concerts? All that would be the same. People could have talked about all the cool things we were going to have anyway, just slightly later. And how smart would we have looked for stopping the progress long enough to let public safety's progress catch up.

The CM has said that 2/3 of our budget already goes to public safety. Really if you stop and think about it, the city should put out fires, protect us from crime, remove our waste and bring us clean water. Honestly, anything else could be run by private industry. Just a thought, let the beatings begin!

Sorry to disagree, but this statement is 100% false.You might want to review the FY/09-10 budget then tell us which statement is 100% false.

Junkie, Boo Yeah! That guy seems to know something! Anyway, just having some fun.

I have read on here that the city would be laying off more people if Maps3 had not passed. Riddle me this, what would things have looked like if the one cent tax had been used for 18-24 months for a public safety shot in the arm. Then it could have transitioned into the one cent that was going to build all of our fun things. That to me would have made alot of sense and I posted it on here. Would the Thunder still be in the play offs? Would we still have the Redhawks and all of the great concerts? All that would be the same. People could have talked about all the cool things we were going to have anyway, just slightly later. And how smart would we have looked for stopping the progress long enough to let public safety's progress catch up.

The CM has said that 2/3 of our budget already goes to public safety. Really if you stop and think about it, the city should put out fires, protect us from crime, remove our waste and bring us clean water. Honestly, anything else could be run by private industry. Just a thought, let the beatings begin!

Several Arizona City's have privatized their Fire and Police Departments, this move has saved them several millions over the past 4--5 years, maybe OKC should look into this.

Several Arizona City's have privatized their Fire and Police Departments, this move has saved them several millions over the past 4--5 years, maybe OKC should look into this.

Please provide more info . What citys specifically? Not that I don't believe you, but this idea has been floating around for at least 25 years that I know of. If it really saved money and provided an acceptable level of service don't you think it would be more prevalent?