Oklahoma City Wolverines - (Oklahoma City, OK) - powered by LeagueLineup.com (http://www.leaguelineup.com/welcome.asp?url=okcwolverines)

its semi-pro, most of the players have to pay to play, so i wouldn't really consider it "pro" football

We do have the Arena Football league, guys that are being paid, and are litterally a step away from the NFL but some people dont consider it "real" football...

holy balls they play at my schools stadium literally a 5 minute walk from my house

i dont know if they are the same semi-pro league, but there is one that plays at Crooked Oak HS, and a few others around the city

Oklahoma City has tasted blood, big league blood and I'm looking forward to 2017 when we begin some serious talk about bringing an NFL franchise to Oklahoma City.

Many posters laughed and called those of us who were promoting the big leagues in 1993"crazy" when the Downtown Arena was proposed for MAPS. Where are we now?

We've got to think big and look outside the box and build for the future!

Oklahoma City has come a long way and ours is the future!

We have come a long way, but we do not have a big enough TV market to carry an NFL team... plus the lack of a potential owner hurts

Oklahoma City has tasted blood, big league blood and I'm looking forward to 2017 when we begin some serious talk about bringing an NFL franchise to Oklahoma City.

Many posters laughed and called those of us who were promoting the big leagues in 1993"crazy" when the Downtown Arena was proposed for MAPS. Where are we now?

We've got to think big and look outside the box and build for the future!

Oklahoma City has come a long way and ours is the future!

SERIOUSLY. Do you really think OKC is ever going to get an NFL franchise?

The answer: Not in this millenium

Oklahoma has too much of a stout pride for college football, its in our blood. We Okies devote waaaaaaayyyy too much love and focus towards the OU Sooners for there to ever be the possibility of supporting another football team.

Factor in that "America's NFL Team" is only 190 miles to the south, complete with a newly erected billion dollar stadium, and that Oklahoma is considered within the Cowboys market area.

You want NFL in Oklahoma??, youd have to remove the whole Sooners team out of Oklahoma in order for that to happen, and youd have a million death wishes stamped upon your head by angered OU fans at even the remotest of thoughts about that ever surfacing to fruition.

NFL in OKC will never happen in our lifetimes, bet on that.

We have NBA, the next league expansion will be NHL considering we came very close to scoring an expansion team back in 1997 but lost out to Nashville who pretty much stole our Predators mainly cause we didnt have the Ford Center completed in time. On the next round of NHL expansions, Im sure OKC will be a strong contender.

On the next round of NHL expansions, Im sure OKC will be a strong contender.

The NHL is not expanding anytime soon, they are more likely to contract than expand...

plus having an NBA and NHL team are highly unlikely, concurrent seasons, battling for the same corporate and fan $$'s...

plus having an NBA and NHL team are highly unlikely, concurrent seasons, battling for the same corporate and fan $$'s...

then MLB perhaps, but not NFL. OKC has a long ways to go for that. Market is too small, too close to Dallas, and not enough demand for pro football since collegiate is so big here.

then MLB perhaps, but not NFL. OKC has a long ways to go for that. Market is too small, too close to Dallas, and not enough demand for pro football since collegiate is so big here.

I agree.

Look at San Antonio.
They already have a facility capable of hosting NFL games, but no team.

So the city goes absolutely nuts for the Spurs.

I say we keep our focus on the Thunder. If season ticket holders have to choose, someone is going to lose.

We have 2 Big 12 programs, Triple A Baseball, soon to have an AHL hockey team, and NBA basketball.

That's nothing to be disappointed about.

The only additional pro-sport coming to OKC is auto racing.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-one-step-closer-to-american-le-mans-race/article/3445051?custom_click=rss


Oklahoma City has taken another step forward in its pursuit of an American Le Mans Series race.
The Oklahoma City Council has approved a resolution allowing City Manager Jim Couch to negotiate with Oklahoma City Grand Prix, LLC, which has applied for an American Le Mans event that would be a yearly stop on the series' schedule.

According to a statement released by OKC Grand Prix, LLC, the city's inaugural street race would be held in the summer of 2011 throughout downtown OKC and Bricktown.



Read more: NewsOK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-one-step-closer-to-american-le-mans-race/article/3445051?custom_click=rss#ixzz0lYItN4Up)

I agree.

Look at San Antonio.
They already have a facility capable of hosting NFL games, but no team.

So the city goes absolutely nuts for the Spurs.

I say we keep our focus on the Thunder. If season ticket holders have to choose, someone is going to lose.

We have 2 Big 12 programs, Triple A Baseball, soon to have an AHL hockey team, and NBA basketball.

That's nothing to be disappointed about.

Don't forget the now professional level Yard Dawgs. the AFL folded, but the Dawgs are playing teams from the AFL now. I personnaly think it is great that we have an indoor football team to help make up the lapse.

How about this question......

What do you all think of the potential for minor league "standard" football - like baseball has but where one team may feed up to 5 NFL teams - similar to NFL Europe but in the US?

How about this question......

What do you all think of the potential for minor league "standard" football - like baseball has but where one team may feed up to 5 NFL teams - similar to NFL Europe but in the US?

Won't happen. College football (and to some extent - the AFL) is the development league for the NFL.

I almost hope we don't get another major franchise (NHL/MLB/NFL) until our business and population bases greatly expand. My fear is that we'll get cocky, bring in another team, have to split the corporate sponsorship and season ticket audience, and end up losing both teams.

i agree Grant.

Let's all focus on the Thunder, then 5-10 years later we can get another franchise.

OKC has a lot on it's plate now in professional teams:

NBA Thunder
OU Sooners (Top 5 NCAA Football program - NFL feeder/top recruit)
AFL YardDawgz
AAA Redhawks
AHL Blazers/Oilers


Then 'local' sports in:
OSU teams
OU teams (other than the big league football)
OCU teams
the semi pro sports teams and women's leagues

OKC has quite a complete sports package to offer. I say, let us support these teams and hope metro cities can take some of OKC's minor league teams before OKC gets another major league team.

However, I think if Clay Bennett owned a NHL team - it could very well work in OKC, especially with about 200,000 more people in the metro and a few more large corporations and/or corporate employment/admin base; say 2015/2020. And the NHL would need to be a relocation. ....

If the AHL does well in OKC and we continue to grow, look for CB and company to make that next move to add NHL to OKC's plate and market both leagues together to book the Ford Center for even more nights per year; look out Nashville/Columbus.

I almost hope we don't get another major franchise (NHL/MLB/NFL) until our business and population bases greatly expand. My fear is that we'll get cocky, bring in another team, have to split the corporate sponsorship and season ticket audience, and end up losing both teams.

This is why place like Sacramento, Salt Lake City, Orlando, and Portland only have NBA after all of the season they have been in the NBA. Other than auto-racing the only top level pro-sport that could work in OKC is MLS (which I would like to see happen).

Come on people, let's think outside the box. Ownership wouldn't be as big a problem with relocation as it would with expansion.
There are people here in OKC-Tulsa areas with deep pockets.

San Antonio is too close to Houston and Dallas markets and San Antonio corporate structure is similar to ours.

Minnesota and Jacksonville are teams which might be available for relocation after 2015 if their stadium needs aren't addressed.

2017-20 our metro-population should exceed 1.5 million and there will be over 3 million within a 100-miles radius (includes Tulsa this 100-mile radius was established by the NFL and you only need 1.5 million people in this area to suuport NFL - excludes Green Bay).

I heard these same arguments before the NBA arrived and we built the Ford Center.

Oklahomans have got to start thinking BIG!

Look at the similarities between NFL Jacksonville, New Orleans and Oklahoma City:


Media Market: Source (DMA Rankings - U.S. Household by Market)

45th Oklahoma City 694,030 households
47th Jacksonville 679,120 households
51th New Orleans 633,030 households

Population: Source (Wikipedia: Table of U.S. Metropolitan Areas)

40th Jacksonville 1.3 million
44th Oklahoma City 1.2 million
46th New Orleans 1.1 million

Jacksonville is stuggling to hold onto their franchise, and we know the documented struggles with the Saints (in terms of relocation and state guarantees, etc).

I have said before that IMO, OKC can't support being a college football power center and also support NFL football. There is virtually nowhere in the country where both are supported at a top notch level. Atlanta comes to mind as being the closest to it but FL cities don't sell out both college and NFL, LA doesn't even have NFL at the moment. Dallas doesn't have top tier college football and neither does Houston. OU and OSU football ARE our NFL football.

Jacksonville is stuggling to hold onto their franchise, and we know the documented struggles with the Saints (in terms of relocation and state guarantees, etc).

The Saints just signed a 15 year extension with the state, no payments. Instead the state sold an adjacent skyscraper needing renovations to Benson who will then lease office space back to the state. Also, Benson will redevelop a dead mall next to the dome into a tailgate park, restaurants (maybe an ESPN Zone), and whatever else. It's a win win for everyone. Renovated dome, skyscraper goes back into commerce, and the mall is torn down for redevelopment.

The Hornets are in the process of being sold to a south Louisiana billionaire who has a history with basketball. This is a substantial financial boon compared to relatively poor George Shinn who is worth 1/10 as much as Gary Chouest.

And with N.O.'s tv market being around 50... that has to take into account a recovering city. The metro area is back up to pre-Katrina levels. Also in 8 days Mitch Landrieu will be inaugurated as mayor. The first white mayor in about 40 years. The council is 5/7 white, and has made substantial improvements for the city DESPITE Nagin's antics the last 4 years. The U.S. attorney has been a pitbull against political corruption, and the new District Attorney has locked a significant number of people up. N.O. public schools have been turned over to the state and feds (good results). The city, state, feds, are about to break ground on *2* multi billion dollar hospitals in lower Midcity. 2 skyscrapers have been erected since the storm, and a 10 story cancer research center is currently under construction. Film industry has exploded as well (largest center outside L.A.). The city has hope for the first time since the oil bust. Sorry for the thread hijack. One thought led to another. :ou:backtotop

Laramie

The reason the Jags might move is for the exact reason the NFL wold fail in OKC. There just aren't enought people. Jacksonville doens't have a stadium issue other than too many seats - about 35,000 too many.

Mug mentioned Atlanta - Atlanta doesn't have a top level college football team with attendance like OU. Georgia Tech has a small stadium and rarely sells out. Anyone seen the Falcons attendance? Dismal. They are trying to build a new stadium on an old GM plant site in Doraville (NE Atlanta). The Bulldogs play in Athens which is a pretty good distance from most of metro Atlanta.

The best combination of NFL and College is San Francisco, Oakland, Stanford and Cal. But they are in an area with 7 million people and none of them lead any stats in attendance.

Laramie

The reason the Jags might move is for the exact reason the NFL wold fail in OKC. There just aren't enought people. Jacksonville doens't have a stadium issue other than too many seats - about 35,000 too many.


Response: Shoot for Mars and we might settle again for the Moon!

Sure if the NFL moved to OKC to date it would fail (I'm talking 2017-2020); however, I think we should get ready for bigger and better things and although San Antonio didn't get an NFL team for the Alamodome, their stadium did generate alot of other things like NCAA final fours, bowls games...

My bad on Jacksonville, it is a small market and without a winner I'm sure it's taking its toll on their economy.



Mug mentioned Atlanta - Atlanta doesn't have a top level college football team with attendance like OU. Georgia Tech has a small stadium and rarely sells out. Anyone seen the Falcons attendance? Dismal. They are trying to build a new stadium on an old GM plant site in Doraville (NE Atlanta). The Bulldogs play in Athens which is a pretty good distance from most of metro Atlanta.

Response: Atlanta's strong corporate support base is what keeps professional sports alive in Atlanta.

The best combination of NFL and College is San Francisco, Oakland, Stanford and Cal. But they are in an area with 7 million people and none of them lead any stats in attendance.


Why are we so satisfied with the Oklahoma Sooners? They need to expand the stadium to 100,000 so that peasants like me can buy tickets (Thank God of Loud City-Ford Center). I was able to purchase season tickets during the Gibbs era and loss them because I couldn't become a high dollar donor when Stoop came on board following Drunkenbuerger and the one following him. I remember when as children a group of us use to hop on the train and sit in the green-bleacher section for $1.00--am I telling my age?

Laramie, that is the reason the NFL won't last in Oklahoma. The competition between OU, OSU, and the NFL ticket prices would make going to the games extremely expensive for families. OKC would have to build an 80-90,000 seat stadium to make it worthwhile. Many families simply can not or could not afford to got to college and pro games on hte same weekend.

San Antonio is too close to Houston and Dallas...



Same can be said OKC/Tulsa's proximity to Dallas or Kansas City.

The NFL here is a pipe dream.

I could see the NHL or MLB at some point in the distant future, if the fans continue to support the Thunder with the ferocity they have shown so far.

I think NHL would be the most likely because they could play in the Ford Center. An MLB team would mean we lose the redhawks. The Brick would sit empty or be demolished because it isn't big enough for an MLB team.

LA would be most likely to receive an NFL team before anyone else. There are already plans to build the Los Angeles Stadium in the make by billionaire Ed Roski in the LA area and it looks like the Jaguars, Bills, Raiders, or Chargers are the likely candidates to relocate it this were to happen. At this time, I dont see the NFL to relocate any team to OKC in any forseeable future at all.

Same can be said OKC/Tulsa's proximity to Dallas or Kansas City.

The NFL here is a pipe dream.

I could see the NHL or MLB at some point in the distant future, if the fans continue to support the Thunder with the ferocity they have shown so far.

I think NHL would be the most likely because they could play in the Ford Center. An MLB team would mean we lose the redhawks. The Brick would sit empty or be demolished because it isn't big enough for an MLB team.

MLB only if the metro gained another 500K. Filling 45,000 seats on a weeknight during regular season would be pretty unlikely with our current population. Its almost too bad Tulsa isn't 50 miles closer so we could pool our populations for some things.

Laramie, that is the reason the NFL won't last in Oklahoma. The competition between OU, OSU, and the NFL ticket prices would make going to the games extremely expensive for families. OKC would have to build an 80-90,000 seat stadium to make it worthwhile. Many families simply can not or could not afford to got to college and pro games on hte same weekend.



We don't necessarily have to attract the NFL; however, having an NFL caliber type stadium in place (one with a retractable roof) could attract many events to OKC after 2017. It would take at least three years to build.

Why is 2017 so important? That's when our current MAPS 3 Tax expires.

Oklahoma city has been considered in the recent past for a UFL football team (United Football League). As of right now its only got 5 or 6 teams and is attracting players as an alternative to those who werent selected in the NFL.

As of now, there have been no takers in OKC for the UFL.

If I could pick a second major professional sport for OKC it would be Major League Baseball by a long shot. Fall into winter we have college football. Winter into spring we have basketball. Spring into summer is baseball season. I would hope the Brick could be expanded and renovated as a money saver. This is all assuming we experience major population growth in the next 10-15 years. That growth would help fill the 45,000 or so seats for the 81 home games every year. The fact that most baseball is played in the summer really helps fill the seats - summer is much more conducive to staying out late on a weeknight. With a bit of population growth, corporate growth/relocation, and time I think MLB is a very viable option.


Laramie: What events could a large football stadium attract that a large outdoor amphitheater could not?

If I could pick a second major professional sport for OKC it would be Major League Baseball by a long shot. Fall into winter we have college football. Winter into spring we have basketball. Spring into summer is baseball season. I would hope the Brick could be expanded and renovated as a money saver. This is all assuming we experience major population growth in the next 10-15 years. That growth would help fill the 45,000 or so seats for the 81 home games every year. The fact that most baseball is played in the summer really helps fill the seats - summer is much more conducive to staying out late on a weeknight. With a bit of population growth, corporate growth/relocation, and time I think MLB is a very viable option.


Laramie: What events could a large football stadium attract that a large outdoor amphitheater could not?

I'm aware that the Lincoln Park Ampitheater can accommodate somewhere in the neighborhood of 20,000 (the animals need to get some rest).

A modern football stadium capable of being expanded later and a roof added would be the direction we should be planning as 2017 closes in. Much like what we did with the Ford Center. Start with a shell of a building and add the amenities later.

Getting back to your question of events:

The facility could be used for a variety of other activities outside of its main purpose football--annual college bowl game, smaller regional football attraction like Langston vs Grambling or Southern University, UCO vs Texas A & M - Kingsville; State High School football playoffs and soccer--MLS franchise and other important soccer attractions.

Big name concerts, religious ceremonies, basketball games (when retractable roof is added), college football and high school football contests, motorcross races and rodeos and other rodeo events similar to the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo.

There are a number of things to start out; however, the number of hotel rooms available will determine which events we would be able to host. We could start out small and gradually build up.

I'm surprised in the aftermath of the what is now an obvious huge success with the NBA, that people are trotting out the same argument that OKC couldn't support a big league professional sports team. Especially, now that the subject matter is about FOOTBALL. The sport that is king in Oklahoma. The sport that our populous knows more about than any other sport. Grandmother's know the difference between cover 3 & 5. Children get upset when QBs throw a pick without going through their full reads. But we don't have the people to support football around here?

A team that the Sooner, Cowboy and Hurricane fans can get behind and come together as one is exactly what this place needs.

I also don't see the argument that if they have a strong college team near by they can't have pro team. How's that working out for Miami Hurricanes & Dolphins? Or even up the road in Jacksonville compared to neighboring Gainesville? Or in Tennessee? Well, pretty much all of SEC country. Isn't Ohio State splitting the distance between Cleveland & Cinci? Michigan & Michigan St. compared to Detroit. Denver & Colorado. The idea that the two can't co-exist is proven wrong every fall weekend.

It is quite likely that we have more football fans than we every other sport combined. Pulling together 70-80K people for 8 Sundays a year to cheer for the local football team will not be difficult by any stretch of the imagination. Put an AD, Bradford, Dez Bryant (or similar regional hero) on the team, and our team can pick their ticket prices.

... Its almost too bad Tulsa isn't 50 miles closer so we could pool our populations for some things.

If that's all that's needed, put the field at Stroud, name the team the Turnpikers and both cities have a fairly easy drive to/from the games.


Yeah, yeah, I know.

I'm surprised in the aftermath of the what is now an obvious huge success with the NBA, that people are trotting out the same argument that OKC couldn't support a big league professional sports team. Especially, now that the subject matter is about FOOTBALL. The sport that is king in Oklahoma. The sport that our populous knows more about than any other sport. Grandmother's know the difference between cover 3 & 5. Children get upset when QBs throw a pick without going through their full reads. But we don't have the people to support football around here?

A team that the Sooner, Cowboy and Hurricane fans can get behind and come together as one is exactly what this place needs.

I also don't see the argument that if they have a strong college team near by they can't have pro team. How's that working out for Miami Hurricanes & Dolphins? Or even up the road in Jacksonville compared to neighboring Gainesville? Or in Tennessee? Well, pretty much all of SEC country. Isn't Ohio State splitting the distance between Cleveland & Cinci? Michigan & Michigan St. compared to Detroit. Denver & Colorado. The idea that the two can't co-exist is proven wrong every fall weekend.

It is quite likely that we have more football fans than we every other sport combined. Pulling together 70-80K people for 8 Sundays a year to cheer for the local football team will not be difficult by any stretch of the imagination. Put an AD, Bradford, Dez Bryant (or similar regional hero) on the team, and our team can pick their ticket prices.

I agree with u mr big, also everybody talks how were closer to Dallas, and we can't have a nfl team, well look at this, Baltimore and Washington DC is about or maybe a little over 30 miles and they both have teams, so I don't understand why we can have one too.......

NFL and college football do not compete for fans. New Orleans has the Saints and just down the road LSU. Doesn't seem to bother them. The NFL would be a runaway success here if ever given the chance. People would watch the sooners on saturday and the NFL on sundays. Thats right people would watch both, myself included. Football is the sport of choice in Oklahoma and offers an appeal that the NBA, NHL, and even MLB will never have here. The real problem is that the NFL doesn't know that and would likely reject any relocation to this undersized market.

This is my take on this subject. Football is king in Oklahoma, but lets look at the list for dollars. Thursday and Friday nights= high school football. Saturday= college football and Sunday= NFL. Now college has moved to Thursday nights and the NFL plays on Monday nights as well. As a fan I could not afford to go to all of the games in the same weekend. High school games cost $5-6/person, college tickets are now well over $30, and NFL tickets are over $50, and I'm not counting food, and other items. As a high school coach I miss having butts in the seats on game night as that hits our budget, but I feel if there is other competition then our budget would get hit even harder. My school is looking at not doing TV games anymore because of the decline in attendence. Again this is my opinion.

We've heard the dollars argument when it came to basketball, a sport that is considerable second fiddle around these parts to football. And this city packed the house for 41 games a year. The dollars argument failed miserably. Compare that to 8 Sundays a year for people who are already rabid football fans. Its difficult to imagine that people will not adjust their budgets just like they did for basketball.

We've heard the dollars argument when it came to basketball, a sport that is considerable second fiddle around these parts to football. And this city packed the house for 41 games a year. The dollars argument failed miserably. Compare that to 8 Sundays a year for people who are already rabid football fans. Its difficult to imagine that people will not adjust their budgets just like they did for basketball.

Mr. Big, OKC is firmly entrenched as one of the powerhouse centers for college football. More go to Norman than Stillwater but a fair number Do head north. There is no major city in the country where both MAJOR college football powerhouses and professional football both thrive.

LA doesn't have pro football right now and hasn't for several years. Miami comes close off and on depending on how good the Hurricane and the Dolphins are year to year - but they often do not sell out their games. Atlanta may come the closest year-in and year-out between the local Ga.Tech and the relatively close Ga. Bulldogs vs. the Falcons. In all cases, those are metro areas far larger than OKC. They are also far more wealthy than OKC. Its VERY expensive to buy season tickets to OU football, but to shell out at least as much, if not more, for an NFL season ticket would be beyond the means of most people here. I just don't see it happening for a long, long time.

As of now, there have been no takers in OKC for the UFL.

Facilities and an owner is all it would take, having done some work with the UFL, if someone could get a deal done with OU or Tulsa they could easily host a UFL team

I agree. I think the UFL would be a reasonable option. I don't see us getting an NFL team in the forseeable future, but I do think we could support a professional football team.

Sorry, I was referring to the NFL, but yes the UFL a year ago had considered fielding a team here in Oklahoma City. In fact, last time I have heard they still are considering a possibility here in OKC.

The UFL is still in its infant stage, but growing fast. There have been a few moves and an expansion in Omaha right now in the off season. I am shocked that the UFL has not planted a team in Los Angeles as of yet, and the NFL, even though they are trying hard to get bills or jaguars to move to LA, hasnt even bagun on a new stadium yet.

Lastly, there has been talk about the old USFL returning in the spring of 2011. But on this economy, who knows if this would work at this time.

I agree with OKC supporting the UFL, but NFL is a different league.

I dont say that because OKC couldn't support it - but I do say it due to the costs and the fact that OKC is just beginning to be a 'big boy' major city. Others have mentioned the relative lack of big spending high earners in OKC as well as the overall lack of population compared to other major markets. If OKC didn't have OU, then I could totally see a place like OKC supporting the NFL and NBA. But, given OKC's population size and relative lack of wealth (compared to other major markets), we would need to catch up to a 2.5M metro before the NFL could really work well here OR at least 2.0M metro and a relocation with the same ownership as the NBA Thunder.

In fact, I make this argument for ANY new franchise for OKC: 2.5M OR 2.0M + Clay Bennett and Co. as the owners. That way, with a 'smallish' metro - there wouldn't be competition for sports dollars having common ownership they could co market/sponsor.

I also want to make a point that there are other larger or more wealthy/disposable income metros who are also interested in an NFL team: LA, San An, come to mind - I think OKC would be next though.

I know OKC is football country, arguably more than any other major metro. But for now, OKC will have to suffice with the NBA (which OKC has more than welcomed and supported, and I don't see that dropping ever); but the city/metro will need another 700K or so and common ownership for another league to come to town, regardless if it is NFL, MLB, or NHL.

That's the way I see it; I definitely think OKC will get there though. :)

I agree with u mr big, also everybody talks how were closer to Dallas, and we can't have a nfl team, well look at this, Baltimore and Washington DC is about or maybe a little over 30 miles and they both have teams, so I don't understand why we can have one too.......

The Baltimore Washington Metro area with 8.5 million people is the fourth largest metro in the nation and has more people than the Dallas-Ft Worth and Oklahoma City metro areas combined.

I don't like the idea of an NFL team in OKC because the first thing the team would do is demand the taxpayers fund a new stadium.

OKC is too small of a market to get NFL. It's kind of a prereq to have a THRIVING MLB Franchise first before they will consider ya.

You'd get a MLS Franchise before NFL here.

We're not getting an NFL franchise, but I would like to point out that Jacksonville and Indianapolis do not have MLB. Buffalo and Green Bay don't as well, but they're such old teams it doesn't really apply.

OKC is too small of a market to get NFL. It's kind of a prereq to have a THRIVING MLB Franchise first before they will consider ya.

You'd get a MLS Franchise before NFL here.



I agree with betts!

We are at least 10-15 years from being a viable NFL ready market.

What it cost to build a stadium we definitely need to build something which could be used for future big league consideration--at least the main structure in place which could be modified or expanded as the need arises.

It's relatively inexpensive to build now and not over build. Look at Honolulu when they built the 50,000-seat Aloha Stadium with the retractable stands which moved. Now, they call it Rustoleum Stadium because it is too outdated and can't really be expanded.

I remember being on the Oklahoman's forum some 15 years ago and posters were saying that Oklahoma would never get a pro anything because of our minor league support--well, you know successful minor league performance doesn't dictate your path into the major leagues or Rochester, NY would be a viable Major League Soccer market based on their past performance.

We're not getting an NFL franchise, but I would like to point out that Jacksonville and Indianapolis do not have MLB. Buffalo and Green Bay don't as well, but they're such old teams it doesn't really apply.

Also, Charlotte, Nashville and New Orleans do not have MLB.

[QUOTE=demoman2k10;332188]OKC is too small of a market to get NFL. It's kind of a prereq to have a THRIVING MLB Franchise first before they will consider ya.

/QUOTE]

To the extent there is any relationship at all, it would appear to be the exact opposite of what you stated.

In addition to the fact that the seven cities already mentioned (including many or most of the newer NFL teams) are in cities with no MLB teams. A good number of other cities with NFL teams had their NFL teams for a long time before they had MLB. Also, there are only three MLB cities that do not have NFL: LA (obviously an anomaly); Milwaukee; and Toronto (another anomaly, for obvious reasons).

[QUOTE=demoman2k10;332188]OKC is too small of a market to get NFL. It's kind of a prereq to have a THRIVING MLB Franchise first before they will consider ya.

/QUOTE]

To the extent there is any relationship at all, it would appear to be the exact opposite of what you stated.

In addition to the fact that the seven cities already mentioned (including many or most of the newer NFL teams) are in cities with no MLB teams. A good number of other cities with NFL teams had their NFL teams for a long time before they had MLB. Also, there are only three MLB cities that do not have NFL: LA (obviously an anomaly); Milwaukee; and Toronto (another anomaly, for obvious reasons).

Just because you love to point out mistakes. Green Bay's metropolitan area is about 302,000. The Green Bay Packers would simply not exist were it not for Milwaukee (2 million) just 90 minutes away.

[QUOTE=Oil Capital;332525]

Just because you love to point out mistakes. Green Bay's metropolitan area is about 302,000. The Green Bay Packers would simply not exist were it not for Milwaukee (2 million) just 90 minutes away.

Agreed. So remove Green Bay from the NFL list and remove Milwaukee from the MLB list. My point still stands, and if anything, is strengthened by that correction.