First off, let's keep this civil with religious preferences and differences aside. Move it to religion or political if you want to go there.

Ok, so with all the talk and suggestions that OKC should try and court more museums and attractions to downtown and Bricktown, should OKC try to court Hobby Lobby to locate this HUGE museum to Downtown OKC instead of Dallas (their preference?). Regardless of religous beliefs, this would be a HUGE museum and probably a huge draw. I found this article in today's JR.

The Journal Record
Hobby Lobby backs Bible museum
by Kirby Lee Davis
Published: March 29th, 2010


A second-edition Luther New Testament commissioned for Henry the Wise, his protector. (Courtesy Photo)
OKLAHOMA CITY – Hobby Lobby Stores will delve into the nonprofit realm for its next expansion project, creating a permanent home for the National Bible Museum.

The Oklahoma City-based chain of 436 retail stores not only is helping place the building, but will provide the museum a collection of several thousand historic Bibles and religious artifacts, led most recently by the Codex Climaci Rescriptus. Considered one of the world’s oldest near-complete Bibles, that manuscript boasts the only surviving New Testament texts recorded in Palestinian Aramaic, the tongue Jesus spoke.

“We’re intending to have a world-class museum for God’s word,” said David Green, founder of Hobby Lobby, who estimated the collection inventory in the tens of thousands. “It really substantiates God’s word, to see the history of his word.”

Led by Cornerstone Professor of History Scott Carroll, the nonprofit National Bible Museum has been under development for about seven years. In 2008 Carroll discussed opening a $300 million complex in a 900,000-square-foot downtown Dallas facility, but that project did not advance under the emerging national recession.

Hobby Lobby President Steve Green said Dallas remains a prime candidate, with Carroll continuing to spearhead the effort. He projects the size at 300,000 square feet or more.

“What we’re looking for would be a major metropolitan area,” Steve Green said in a telephone interview Monday. “We feel the museum would draw worldwide for people who have interest in the Bible. It just seems to make sense for it to be one of the major metropolitan areas in the U.S. That’s why Dallas would be preferred.

“But at this point, without having the location required, we would be open to opportunities that might present themselves,” he said. “At this point what we’re looking for is not new construction, but an existing facility that would work to house the collection.”



Hobby Lobby is evaluating potential museum sites with executive director Carroll, museum chief executive D. Jonathan Shipman, co-founder Daniel Centurione, and other supporters.

The trio also aided Hobby Lobby in building its collection of antiquities.

Steve Green, son of David Green, said recessionary pressures have led some investors to cash out their private holdings, creating opportunities to add to what is informally called the “Green Collection.”

“We do get daily opportunities that come up, individuals that are aware we are interested in acquiring biblical antiquities,” said Steve Green. “Those are looked at sitting down once a month. Sometimes it may be a single item and sometimes it may be a complete collection.”

Hobby Lobby acquired the Codex Climaci Rescriptus from Westminster College at Cambridge University. Green would not disclose the price.

The family firm also has added Richard Rolle’s 1341 translation and commentary on the Book of Psalms, considered the oldest known Scripture in English. These join a collection ranging from ancient scrolls, clay tablets thousands of years old and bits of the Dead Sea Scrolls, to Bibles once owned by Babe Ruth, presidents and other prominent people.

“We have a huge collection of Bibles, probably one of the largest if not the largest private collection of Bibles in the world,” said David Green. “We’ve got more scrolls than anybody in the United States.”

The privately held company has a long history of operating under Christian principles, in everything from its inventory selection to operating hours.

“We’re excited about being able to do the things that we do, that God allows us to do,” said David Green, who launched the firm in 1972.

For several decades Hobby Lobby has devoted a large segment of earnings to supporting a variety of ministry and nonprofit efforts. It has financed more than 450 million copies of the four-gospel Book of Hopes, given to children around the world.

“The collection has been something we have been involved in recently, but our faith goes back generations,” said Steve Green. “Grandfather was a minister and my father was a son of a minister. There is a heritage of the Christian faith in our family. We have had a love of God’s word for as long as I’ve lived.

“That is where the opportunity to work with the National Bible Museum came about,” he said. “We’re in the early stages of it. We don’t know exactly all the details but we’re excited about the opportunity to have a significant museum for people to hear the story of the Bible because it is a story unlike any other and we feel that story needs to be told.”

As the museum backers study potential sites, with no timetable for final development, Hobby Lobby has obtained climate-controlled storage facilities to protect its growing inventory.

“We really feel like that’s in God’s hands, quite frankly, and when the time is right we will go forward,” Steve Green said, echoing his father. “We would hope that is sooner than later. It would be exciting.”

Complete URL: Hobby Lobby backs Bible museum (http://journalrecord.com/2010/03/29/hobby-lobby-backs-bible-museum-nonprofit/)

Don't know about downtown. I'd think it'd be more properly out by the Omniplex/Zoo/Remington Park area in the Adventure District. But yeah, it'd be a good thing. No doubt.

Jobs and tourists never hurt anyone.

why not?

It couldn't be any worse for our city's reputation than the Banjo Museum

Sure! Almost any museum is good and we're the middle of the Bible belt so if it were in DT/Bricktown it would prolly get a lot of business from Bible belt travelers

Don't we have Bible Museums already? Churches.

I need to get down to the banjo museum. I've always wanted to learn the banjo. It's actually a beautiful instrument. Lots more technique intensive than the guitar from what it looks like. Anyone who's good at the banjo gets my respect.

There is one in Dallas that is really nice.

The Biblical Arts Center (http://biblicalarts.org/)

“We have a huge collection of Bibles, probably one of the largest if not the largest private collection of Bibles in the world,” said David Green. “We’ve got more scrolls than anybody in the United States.”

As someone who appreciates history and antiquities, this would be great for Oklahoma City. It's not well known, but we actually have one of the best history of science collections in the country at the OU library in Norman, including first edition works by Galileo. I could see a symbiosis, of a sort, that would be very appropriate.

Sounds like this thing is already going to Dallas. And mheaton, you think Galileo and a Church museum would be symbiosis..or war of reason? Lol, just saying..

And mheaton, you think Galileo and a Church museum would be symbiosis..or war of reason? Lol, just saying..

Yin/Yang, Shiva/Vishnu - could be fun! lol

http://blogs.hds.com/miki/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/yin-yang.jpg

Sounds like this thing is already going to Dallas. And mheaton, you think Galileo and a Church museum would be symbiosis..or war of reason? Lol, just saying.. That is correct! The Green family has already purchased land in the Dallas area. DFW courted them and were agressive in getting them to locate in the area, where Oklahoma just sat on their laurels thinking they would automatically come to Oklahoma . Also, Hobby Lobby moved their distribution center to the DFW for their "Hemispheres Furniture stores" stating this is where there real market is and their stores are quite successful in the DFW area. It would not surprise me to see the Green family move the HQ of Hobby Lobby to DFW since this seems to be a starting trend for them, picking Texas over Oklahoma. Watch out Oklahoma, another company leaves Oklahoma for greener pastures............Stay tuned!!!

I doubt it progressiveboy, despite them not doing much in the local business community. I used to work for the Green's personally and know they would not completely uproot their company. They might move some operations to Dallas, but not uproot. You're overplaying the situation. I don't think OKC was probably ever given a chance on this one, they probably just started opting for Dallas without courting OKC. Sad really.

Sure! Almost any museum is good and we're the middle of the Bible belt so if it were in DT/Bricktown it would prolly get a lot of business from Bible belt travelers

Yea we can get the "tea totterers" hopped up on tea, and a sneaked cold beer.

Sure! Almost any museum is good and we're the middle of the Bible belt so if it were in DT/Bricktown it would prolly get a lot of business from Bible belt travelers

Yea we can get the "tea totterers" hopped up on tea, and a sneaked cold beer.
Maybe even get them to drink some coffee.

That is correct! The Green family has already purchased land in the Dallas area. DFW courted them and were agressive in getting them to locate in the area, where Oklahoma just sat on their laurels thinking they would automatically come to Oklahoma . Also, Hobby Lobby moved their distribution center to the DFW for their "Hemispheres Furniture stores" stating this is where there real market is and their stores are quite successful in the DFW area. It would not surprise me to see the Green family move the HQ of Hobby Lobby to DFW since this seems to be a starting trend for them, picking Texas over Oklahoma. Watch out Oklahoma, another company leaves Oklahoma for greener pastures............Stay tuned!!!

They've never really liked OKC anyway, not sure what they've got against it. Hard to like a town when you stay out at SW 44th and Council Rd..lol. Aside from Texas, Green also sends all of his money to Tulsa..ORU in particular, which he previously had no connection to other than wanting to prop up a holy roller school.

Nobody in Oklahoma is buying their nauseating religious propaganda either. You should check out some lawsuits against Hobby Lobby..

The idea that an Oklahoma City based company is building this in Dallas is appaling. This needs to be located smack dab in the center of the OKC Arts District.

Do you really mean that, Kerry?

I doubt it progressiveboy, despite them not doing much in the local business community. I used to work for the Green's personally and know they would not completely uproot their company. They might move some operations to Dallas, but not uproot. You're overplaying the situation. I don't think OKC was probably ever given a chance on this one, they probably just started opting for Dallas without courting OKC. Sad really. Why do you think OKC was not given the chance on this one? It might seem on the surface that this may be overplaying however, it would not surprise me in the least bit if they did uproot the company and moved it out of state most logical place is DFW since they seem to be moving operations and investing there money in Texas more and more.... Again,stay tuned. I may be wrong however, it would not surprise me on bit if this did happen. I mean come on no state income tax, no corporate tax and a forward progressive, business climate. Just saying?????

Do you really mean that, Kerry?

Yes I do. The Arts District was created to lure museums. If we aren't interested in doing that they why bother? At 300,000 sq feet it would be a substantial addition to downtown OKC.

Why do you think OKC was not given the chance on this one? It might seem on the surface that this may be overplaying however, it would not surprise me in the least bit if they did uproot the company and moved it out of state most logical place is DFW since they seem to be moving operations and investing there money in Texas more and more.... Again,stay tuned. I may be wrong however, it would not surprise me on bit if this did happen. I mean come on no state income tax, no corporate tax and a forward progressive, business climate. Just saying?????

You fail to mention that the property tax is much higher. When you look at overall taxation rate, Texas is actually higher versus Oklahoma, they just word it differently in Texas. Again, you never mention the cost of living index.

They could move and beside the job losses it wouldn't matter much to me. For such a large company, they basically have no corporate presence in OKC. When was the last time you saw hobby lobby sponser a civic event or anything for that matter?

You fail to mention that the property tax is much higher. When you look at overall taxation rate, Texas is actually higher versus Oklahoma, they just word it differently in Texas. Again, you never mention the cost of living index. This is true, however, it makes up for it's presence in large HQ's and companies that have large pools of employees thus resulting in a more competive business climate that OKC will probably never see in their life time. These employers pay higher than average salaries than OKC. The property taxes are the only thing I would say is higher everything else is about even or cheaper. No taxes on food, my insurance rates are about the same as when I lived in OKC. Finally, you have such drastic weath here more millionares and billionares than you can shake a stick at. Examples are the Ross Perot families. Trammel Crow families, Harold Simmons families, Hunt families, Murchison families the list just goes on and on. Sure would be nice to see OKC get more wealth and companies but this remains to be seen????

Cost of food (without taxes, is quite a bit higher). I just bought a load of groceries from the Park Lane Whole Foods last week and they were considerably higher than the WF in Tulsa. I've shopped at other grocery stores in DFW as well. Am I jealous of a lot of things in DFW, "sure", but OKC is a bunch of things DFW will never be either and I'm ok with that. Courting white collar jobs isn't everything.

They could move and beside the job losses it wouldn't matter much to me. For such a large company, they basically have no corporate presence in OKC. When was the last time you saw hobby lobby sponser a civic event or anything for that matter?

I noticed that as well.

They do more than you think, but regardless they employe thousands of Oklahomans, and that would have a ripple effect, just because they are largely "unseen" doesn't mean it wouldn't set OKC back.

That is correct! The Green family has already purchased land in the Dallas area. DFW courted them and were agressive in getting them to locate in the area, where Oklahoma just sat on their laurels thinking they would automatically come to Oklahoma . Also, Hobby Lobby moved their distribution center to the DFW for their "Hemispheres Furniture stores" stating this is where there real market is and their stores are quite successful in the DFW area. It would not surprise me to see the Green family move the HQ of Hobby Lobby to DFW since this seems to be a starting trend for them, picking Texas over Oklahoma. Watch out Oklahoma, another company leaves Oklahoma for greener pastures............Stay tuned!!!

Ohh lord.. Please don't let this become one of those "my state is better than your state" threads..

Yes I do. The Arts District was created to lure museums. If we aren't interested in doing that they why bother? At 300,000 sq feet it would be a substantial addition to downtown OKC.

I thought it was created to lure arts..

I thought it was created to lure arts..

What do you think is in most museums? Or is writing not a form of art, even if written 2,000 years ago?

You fail to mention that the property tax is much higher. When you look at overall taxation rate, Texas is actually higher versus Oklahoma, they just word it differently in Texas. Again, you never mention the cost of living index. Metro, the first part of the question was, Why do you think OKC was not given the chance on this one? What do "you" think held back OKC from courting this museum? I also did mention that property taxes are higher in Texas. I believe that Texas landed this project do to a great "business climate". Oklahoma cannot compete tax wise in this category. This is why I believe that Texas will be the ultimate winner in not only having a Bible museum but most likely land the HQ for Hobby Lobby.

but most likely land the HQ for Hobby Lobby.

What makes you think this will happen? Why wouldn't HL keep their HQ here if Wal Mart seems to like it in Bentonville, ARK? The Green family lives here, the company started here, he's not beholden to stockholders and he likely travels anywhere he wishes to go by private plane.

Is there some evidence or are you just speculating?

Ohh lord.. Please don't let this become one of those "my state is better than your state" threads.. No this is not one of these threads. As I mentioned numerous times on other threads, I am a Native Oklahoma Cityan born at St. Anthony Hospital went to grade school, jr. high and graduated from High School and went to College at the University of Oklahoma. I still have family and close friends that I come visit on a regular basis so I am not a "native Texan" so it has nothing to do with whose state is better. However, I always state the simple facts and after leaving Oklahoma and living numerous places and traveling different places I have come to realize that Oklahoma cannot compete in a good business climate or be competitive enough to not only land HQ's but to keep the ones they already have. Look at Fleming Foods, Harolds, Citgo, Kerr McGee and I predict the next corporate loss will be Reserve National Life Insurance Company since they have been acquired by Mutual of Omaha. This raises the question? Is Oklahoma a good steward to it's businesses that operate in the State? Anyway, sorry to get off base but Dallas has already landed the Bible Museum, another Oklahoma loss.

Look at Fleming Foods, Harolds, Citgo, Kerr McGee

Flemings - dead
Harolds - dead
Citgo - moved
Kerr McGee - bought out.

So, only one of the 4 you mentioned left because of a "better" corporate climate. CITGO is not an American company but is Venezuelan owned.

There are many other reasons companies choose to locate in Texas. Incentives are certainly one but for Houston oil companies, it is proximity to the Gulf platforms and plenty of available labor. Houston also has direct flights about anywhere and international travel. Taxes are up in the air. Superior college education is another aspect with many Texas Universities exceeding those in OK. OK is making strides to improve the quality of education received at OU and OSU but they are not TU, TAMU, Baylor, Rice, SMU or TCU.

I will agree that OK should do more to protect it's business interests and have long advocated the elimination of the corporate income tax as one of those incentives.

Fleming - went under in Texas, Harolds - went under in Texas, Kerr McGee - shell of a company that got bought out, bigger company bought and moved to OKC from Texas.

What makes you think this will happen? Why wouldn't HL keep their HQ here if Wal Mart seems to like it in Bentonville, ARK? The Green family lives here, the company started here, he's not beholden to stockholders and he likely travels anywhere he wishes to go by private plane.

Is there some evidence or are you just speculating? Mostly speculating at this point, however I have a hunch on this one and I most certainly will "stand corrected" if this not only turns out "not" to be the case but based on gut feeling. Even "sometimes" going by ones on gut instinct is not correct. Again, I may be totally off base with this one.

Fleming - went under in Texas, Harolds - went under in Texas, Kerr McGee - shell of a company that got bought out, bigger company bought and moved to OKC from Texas. Agree. However it was a well know fact that when these companies were based in Oklahoma they had difficult challenges and financial downfalls. Maybe when they thought they could move to Texas they could save themselves but it was not meant to be. Getting back to the thread, I think OKC should have made a big effort in attempting to lure the Bible Museum. Either Mr. Green already made up his mind and decided on Dallas or there just was not enough interest in the business community to pursue it? Who knows?

Metro, the first part of the question was, Why do you think OKC was not given the chance on this one?

Because this is the first that we've heard anything about it. You are reading way too much into this. Read the article. The museum was started 8 years ago by people in Dallas. Obviously it's not going to move just because the Greens are going to donate some money. You are a testament (pun intended) to the blind anti-Oklahoma sentiment of Dallas-ites. The Greens would never convince those museum directors to move to OKC.

Texas did not "land this project" because of a better business climate. That's beyond ridiculous. And don't even begin to act like you are presenting unbiased facts. You are a Dallas booster though and through.


Agree. However it was a well know fact that when these companies were based in Oklahoma they had difficult challenges and financial downfalls. Maybe when they thought they could move to Texas they could save themselves

Yeah the grass is rarely greener on the other side. Especially the other side of the Red River. I will never, ever live in Texas. Gag.

Because this is the first that we've heard anything about it. You are reading way too much into this. Read the article. The museum was started 8 years ago by people in Dallas. Obviously it's not going to move just because the Greens are going to donate some money. You are a testament (pun intended) to the blind anti-Oklahoma sentiment of Dallas-ites. The Greens would never convince those museum directors to move to OKC.

Texas did not "land this project" because of a better business climate. That's beyond ridiculous. And don't even begin to act like you are presenting unbiased facts. You are a Dallas booster though and through.



Yeah the grass is rarely greener on the other side. Especially the other side of the Red River. I will never, ever live in Texas. Gag. Nobody is forcing you to live in Texas. You are entitled to your opinion, however maybe your "not" reading enough into the article. I admire you frankness however I have to respectfully disagree with you.

Surprised they didn't put this at ORU. Plenty of space on the campus for it, or if they wanted existing space there is a lot in the Cityplex towers. I'm surprised they didn't even court OKC or Tulsa.

Dallas is a good location as far as my vote is concerned. I will cut myself off and say no more.

Let Dallas have it. A "bible museum?" Seriously? Hell 2 the naw!!

Let Dallas have it. A "bible museum?" Seriously? Hell 2 the naw!!

Word

we should have a museum dedicated to Gay OKCers who only took it up the butt for artistic reasons!

stephy, while I'm not at all impressed with having the Bible Museum here, your last comment puzzles me ... and not in a good way.

I think she's thinking of the men she knows being gay for pay.?

stephy, while I'm not at all impressed with having the Bible Museum here, your last comment puzzles me ... and not in a good way.

Why does it puzzle you in a not good way? Because you hate gay people?

Doug, I think she was referring to the effeminate intellectual wannabes that sit around their monitors sneering at and making fun of most everthing that comes along unless it fits their way of making themselves feel important. Then again, I could be wrong.

If that's the case, that was a surprisingly deep message hidden by shallow words. Lol.

I really don't care for a Bible Musuem nor do I think we should actively pursue one so fiercely. If the opportunity arrises, then sure, but I don't think the city should go out of their way for such a museum. Not that anyone is saying that. ;] While we do have a large religious population, I don't see this musuem being much of a draw. I think it would be nice if it was very small and tucked in Bricktown somewhere though, kinda like the Banjo Musuem. Or Midtown, Automobile Alley, etc; you get the idea.

Surprised they didn't put this at ORU. Plenty of space on the campus for it, or if they wanted existing space there is a lot in the Cityplex towers. I'm surprised they didn't even court OKC or Tulsa.

All the more evidence that this was a done deal for Dallas and not something that OKC "lost", as progressiveboy would like us to believe.

Why does it puzzle you in a not good way? Because you hate gay people?
Oh, come on, Stephy, if you've taken the time to search the years of posts in this forum, you will have seen that I've been consistently forthright in standing for the rights of homosexual men and women. Please take the time to do your research before you jump to your conclusions. Apparently not having done that, you just come off like an idiot ... well, that's an overstatement ... the kindest thing to say is that you jumped to a conclusion without doing your homework. You wind up looking silly, ether way.

My company does business daily with both Hobby Lobby and the Green family personally. It is my understanding that the museum is going to be located on the West side of Fort Worth.

While the company may increase it's presence in the DFW area it won't be moving. They are constantly expanding their footprint here and have no intention of relocating any significant local presence. Keep in mind that this is a privately owned business and they don't have to answer to any pressures from investors.

For those who think they aren't involved locally with any philanthropy , they are greatly mistaken. They may not back any large municipal projects, but they are very much into smaller organizations like the Jesus House. They are guided by their own set of priorities and some of those may be what the posters on this thread agree with and some may not but they will do what they feel meets their agendas.

The Green family lives here, the company started here, he's not beholden to stockholders and he likely travels anywhere he wishes to go by private plane.



Actually, I know for a fact that they don't travel by private plane. Many times both David and Barbara travel in coach class when traveling instead of first class.

Word

we should have a museum dedicated to Gay OKCers who only took it up the butt for artistic reasons!

That would be a lot more interesting then some museum dedicated to a damn book of fairytales.

Because this is the first that we've heard anything about it. You are reading way too much into this. Read the article. The museum was started 8 years ago by people in Dallas. Obviously it's not going to move just because the Greens are going to donate some money. You are a testament (pun intended) to the blind anti-Oklahoma sentiment of Dallas-ites. The Greens would never convince those museum directors to move to OKC.

Texas did not "land this project" because of a better business climate. That's beyond ridiculous. And don't even begin to act like you are presenting unbiased facts. You are a Dallas booster though and through.



Yeah the grass is rarely greener on the other side. Especially the other side of the Red River. I will never, ever live in Texas. Gag.

I agree it was started by people in Dallas. I also agree that the Greens money may not be sufficient motivation that would cause them to move the museum to OKC. Irregardless, I don't see money per' se' as being a factor here. However, I do see the Greens worlds largest collection of Bible history and whether or not it is displayed in the museum could be a huge factor in convincing the directors to move to OKC. If the Greens played that card yet failed to convince them, so be it. If they didn't play that card, no matter their reason for not doing so, then so be it. It's their collection and I wish them the best of luck in the Dallas Metroplex. Lord knows those Godless Texans need all the help they can get.

Oh, come on, Stephy, if you've taken the time to search the years of posts in this forum, you will have seen that I've been consistently forthright in standing for the rights of homosexual men and women. Please take the time to do your research before you jump to your conclusions. Apparently not having done that, you just come off like an idiot ... well, that's an overstatement ... the kindest thing to say is that you jumped to a conclusion without doing your homework. You wind up looking silly, ether way.I didn't know you were a closet Gay-basher.

P.S. sorry I missed your call but I was gone for a few days.

The intolerance from the left is staggering. Whether or not you would go, this would be a major project and would be good for downtown OKC. The entire plan was for a 900,000 sq ft facility. That is just a little smaller than the new Devon tower. You must really hate Christians to oppose this only because it contains Bible (Ronronnie1 this comment is directed at you). If this was a collection of Brothers Grimm fairy tales I am sure you would be all for it.

I can echo the above comment about how they are involved with smaller local organizations. A certain private high school in the metro received a $130,000 donation from Hobby Lobby to repair the roof, from what I heard, was in grave disrepair.

@ronronnie1, I won't step on your toes if you don't try and step on mine.

That would be a lot more interesting then some museum dedicated to a damn book of fairytales.

leave it to one of our most intolerant " progressive intellectuals" on the board to get off topic and bring his religious beliefs and intolerance for Christianity into the debate. All the right wingers were doing fine without bringing personal beliefs and religion into it for 3 pages.

leave it to one of our most intolerant " progressive intellectuals" on the board to get off topic and bring his religious beliefs and intolerance for Christianity into the debate.

Intellectual? Seriously?

doG some of you are so shrill lol. Calm down! All I said was that personally I don't think a "bible museum" is what Okc needs. It's not like we don't have enough of that type stuff already.

Okc needs to be more cosmopolitan, as in multi cultural, multi religious (there are other religions besides xtianity, btw), gay friendly (*gasp*) and woman friendly (think opposite 1950's.) But if yall guys want to push for even MORE bible stuff, hey, it's a free county. Just don't act all offended when outsiders look down their noses at the backward Okies.

Okay, I'm done. You may resume.

the topic is "Should OKC court Bible museum?"

The Bible is a basis for a belief..

Not off topic.

And everyone brings their beliefs and experiences into this "topic".
Good or bad.

OK, so we have established that it is OK to bash Christians and gays on this board. Further, it is OK to make wild and unfounded speculations about Hobby Lobby and the Green family (despite that few here know much about either).

This board is gaining some serious momentum.

I hereby declare this thread full of morons.