View Full Version : Worst Employer?



asta2
03-29-2010, 11:41 AM
I have a friend who is a district manager with a large national chain. This chain manages by fear and is constantly threatening jobs. DM's are expected to work from 7 am to 9 pm 6 days a week and be on the phone every Sunday. The regional manager sends hate email and delivers phones calls at all hours of the day and night including Sundays during church. A call was put into to Human Resources to complain about the treatment. They told the caller "That's the way it is around here" and "If I were you I would keep your resume updated". I just find this absolutely mind boggling! Of course this person is looking day and night for another job. Anyone ever heard of a Human Resource manager telling an employee that their company does suck?

PennyQuilts
03-29-2010, 11:49 AM
Anyone ever heard of a Human Resource manager telling an employee that their company does suck?

hahahaha... Sorry, I'm not laughing at you. But, yes, I have heard that, frequently. I used to practice employment law and have relatives in the HR business.

It really bothers me that my kids work at least 6 days a week, frequently everyday. And they are always on call. I get calls from them on their way to and from work on the weekends and it makes me crazy. They don't complain because in their line of work, that is expected. In fact, they tell me they "only" have to work six hours or so on Sundays as if that makes it all okay. They are at work by 9:00 and work until 10 or 11 at night. But there ya go, it is their life and if they don't like it, they can get another job.

I keep praying they will be fired so they will wake up and get a life.

adaniel
03-29-2010, 12:32 PM
I keep praying they will be fired so they will wake up and get a life

Be careful what you wish for Penny, your kids may be on your couch unemployed and that will be their new "life."

In all seriousness, I'm assuming your kids are about my age or a little older, and honestly that's just what happens when you're young. Something about "paying your dues," and it stinks. I'm usually the first to get to my job and the last to leave. And for some reason I'm usually working while my coworkers look at ESPN.com and talk about random stuff amongst each other. And yes I do work every other Sunday as well. I guess it will pay off...eventually.

But back to the subject at hand, I'm not so sure about your friends situation asta2 but if its one of those manangement trainee programs then it sounds pretty typical. They get people into management programs and do everything to make their life a living hell to the point of burnout, then replace them with cheap workers they could easily hire. Because if they stick around then they have to pay them more money, its all about the bottom line. These companies that do these types of programs were a dime a dozen when I was at OU, and they promised the world to wide-eyed students as if this was some uber-glamorous job. A certain discount grocery store and car rental company come to mind. And the fact that the HR person was so frank about it just confirms thats their plan. You can tell your friend to stick it out, because in the long term it could pay off (but it will be a while), say "screw it" and join the 10% of the workforce out of a job, find another job (good luck with that), or go back to school. But it sounds like its just another person screwed from the great management trainee lie.

PennyQuilts
03-29-2010, 12:43 PM
Be careful what you wish for Penny, your kids may be on your couch unemployed and that will be their new "life."

In all seriousness, I'm assuming your kids are about my age or a little older, and honestly that's just what happens when you're young.

I hear ya and I know that being hard working and ambitious is what you want for your kids. They were raised that way and I am proud of them. At a certain point, they'll hit a wall and say, no more. And once it happens, it happens pretty quickly so I hope they are saving up for their pending midlife crisis where they want to go out and raise goats or something.

And you are also right - all I need is to have to be fighting over the last cheeto and who gets to play the next video game. They range in age from 29 - 35.

RealJimbo
03-29-2010, 01:38 PM
I hope I can offer some perspective on this. I nomimate Dell as a horrible employer for several reasons. I worked for them (at first to get a career, at the end just to get a paycheck) for about 2 1/2 years, in three distinctly different functions. Dell has created a fantasy world for people who love buzz words, enjoy acting superior to others, and thrive on being "insiders". As a sales organization they have built some pretty crappy practices, such as waiting until a week into every month before revealing to the sales people what their quotas are, targeting specific product lines to meet minimums (printers, software, etc.) and then when the entire team meets quota, "indexing" so that the quota moves up, cheating salespeople out of money they were promised if they met the quota that is a moving target. This in only one of their dishonest practices.

The perspecitve I bring is from being an entry-level employee several times, in different roles, making it to management early (age 26), working up to middle management, owning a couple of businesses and then looking for a more comfortable, less stressful job in which to live out my golden years. (I'm 62)

While I was moving up, trying to get ahead, living hand-to-mouth every month, it was never enough to get there early and stay late. Sometimes I was required to work all night (like the time a water main broke and most of the mgmt staff stayed all night vacuuming up water and mopping the floor), do anything and everything to see that the department(s) succeeded in meeting their objectives, working Saturdays, going out of town to conferences in nice places an leaving the family at home. When I moved into a sales position later on, I stayed in motels, ate mac and cheese I could make in my motel room and brought home a load of dirty laundry every Friday. I missed seeing my kids grow up for the most part.

But that is not unusal. If you want to be a manager, there will be certain sacrifices, such as time and rest. But if you made the decision to seek a management job you likely know that. It is when you rise to middle management or executive management that an odd thing happens. If you have been good at training and delegating, your life gets easier and the check gets bigger! Not always, but often it happens that way.

I left the employ of Dell for one reason: they are dishonest with their employees and to a degree with their customers, not to mention their stockholders. But that's just my opinion.

asta2
03-29-2010, 02:30 PM
I guess this position would be "middle management". It's not a trainee program. This District Manager position oversees 20 stores. This person has also worked in this position with two other companies for over 12 years and it was nothing like this current employer. After being laid off from a company that was great this current employer was the only thing available in OK. It sucks being so miserable in your job and feeling like there is no way out. As soon as the job situation changes, I will be happy to share the horrid details and all the names! (this is not a local company)

PennyQuilts
03-29-2010, 02:57 PM
Working at a job you hate is miserable. Good luck to your friend to get out. It would be better for him and his employer if they part company, assuming he finds something that can pay the bills.

kevinpate
03-29-2010, 06:08 PM
What's described is not unique to any one company. When you find yourself happy with a career path, cherish it. If only because the next one, well, perhaps not so much.

I've been blessed to enjoy great positions and even better working relationships, and some that, well, let's just say God can have one wicked sense of humor at times and leave it at that.

rondvu
03-29-2010, 06:21 PM
AT&T hands down.

bradzilla
03-29-2010, 06:22 PM
....

soonervegas
03-29-2010, 07:32 PM
AT&T hands down.

Sales or customer service?

mugofbeer
03-29-2010, 10:50 PM
One result of the recession is that many, many American's who have been able to keep their jobs have had their pay cut by their employers. In many cases, the employers have done so not because the company would have laid them off otherwise, but they did it knowing they could. Some would opt to leave and if they did, good riddence to them from the employers point of view. If they stayed, they did so at significantly less pay, less benefits and less cost to the company. Overall, the US economy has been set back to 1980's levels. If overall costs of living could also be set back to 1980's levels then all is well, but when people have mortgages to pay and food to buy at 2010 levels, its been a truly miserable slowdown that may linger on for years.

I don't think anyone can point out one employer as the worst because thousands of them have proven in the last 2 years they have no loyalty to their employees or to this country. Employees are like hairs on the top of their heads. When the company gets a few too many hairs, its off to the barber for a "painless" haircut - nevermind the hell it puts the employee through or the damage it does to the economy.

I worked for the same company for over 20 years and my advice? Don't ever do something as naive as that. I thought I would retire there but even though my ex-employer maintained significant profitabilty throughout the recession, they found it "necessary" to cut the average pay by 30% across the board - because they could.

Don't mistake the fact that people can be loyal to other people or to a team but never fall into the belief that your employer is loyal to the employee. They can tell you how much they appreciate you until the cows come home but they will "haircut" you in a heartbeat if it suits their needs.

oneforone
03-29-2010, 11:38 PM
I think it all comes down to how much abuse an employee is willing to take.

Anytime I have held a job under a ruthless boss I made the effort to get out. You can get out anytime you want but, you have to plan the exit. You cannot just get up walk away. You have to get a savings in place, you need to be ready for potential changes in your daily activities and you have to keep your plan to yourself and those you support.

You should never leave a job until you have secured employment with a new employer.

When you do leave, you put in your two weeks notice and work every day as if you were not leaving in two weeks. Keep your exit on a need to know basis with your co-workers. Don't blab to the world about your new job and how much better life will be once you move on. Leave on good terms so that in the unlikely event you have to return you can.

RealJimbo
03-30-2010, 01:35 PM
I think it all comes down to how much abuse an employee is willing to take.

Anytime I have held a job under a ruthless boss I made the effort to get out. You can get out anytime you want but, you have to plan the exit. You cannot just get up walk away. You have to get a savings in place, you need to be ready for potential changes in your daily activities and you have to keep your plan to yourself and those you support.

You should never leave a job until you have secured employment with a new employer.

When you do leave, you put in your two weeks notice and work every day as if you were not leaving in two weeks. Keep your exit on a need to know basis with your co-workers. Don't blab to the world about your new job and how much better life will be once you move on. Leave on good terms so that in the unlikely event you have to return you can.

Good advice. I might add that there is a law of employment: you are much more attractive to prospective employers if you already have a job. Plus, being unemployed can cause one to take a job that could keep you from getting "the one" perfect job.

jstaylor62
03-30-2010, 04:06 PM
Some people gauge the success and growth of a company by the volume of job listings they place in the paper each week. But I have learned that it can also mean they have a tremendously high turnover rate.

bradzilla
04-05-2010, 11:44 AM
Don't mistake the fact that people can be loyal to other people or to a team but never fall into the belief that your employer is loyal to the employee. They can tell you how much they appreciate you until the cows come home but they will "haircut" you in a heartbeat if it suits their needs.

Whoa!...I really like your post. You're dead right.

rondvu
04-06-2010, 03:17 PM
I would have to say both......

PennyQuilts
04-06-2010, 03:48 PM
Don't mistake the fact that people can be loyal to other people or to a team but never fall into the belief that your employer is loyal to the employee. They can tell you how much they appreciate you until the cows come home but they will "haircut" you in a heartbeat if it suits their needs.


Well, in fairness, people aren't loyal to their employer the way they once were, either. The whole relationship has changed to one that is far more transient.

mugofbeer
04-06-2010, 03:56 PM
Well, in fairness, people aren't loyal to their employer the way they once were, either. The whole relationship has changed to one that is far more transient.

And whose fault is that? Sure, there are those who are driven by greed and unions absolutely don't create loyalty to the employer. However, employers with the abuses they have heaped on the employee population have pretty much eliminated the notion of employee loyalty.

There are a few employers who still care. This recession and a study of employers who truly sacrificed short term profitability to help keep their employees afloat should be pointed out and applauded. Employers who obviously reduced employee wages simply because they could or laid off employees in an attempt to remain profitable should also be pointed out and vilified. Sure, no one can predict the future and employers will always use that as an excuse, but its pretty obvious who did what if the situation is studied.

PennyQuilts
04-06-2010, 04:06 PM
Some years ago, people started job hopping - the idea of being a company man died. I don't know if that is after pensions became a thing of the past or if dropping pensions was the result of people no longer feeling like they owed their employer any loyalty. My husband is on the old retirement system with the government and if he walks away, he loses 30 plus years invested. He might have been wooed away a long time ago but for that.

My father lost his business in the oil bust back in the 80's and nearly destroyed his health, frantic at how he could keep pensions and insurance for his long term employees. He ended up in the hospital with ruined health and never fully recovered. A dying breed, for sure, but in his day, looking out for your people went along with being a business owner. However, employees who will stand my their employer if some one else offers more money are also a dying breed. I think talking about blame is sort of water under the bridge at this point. It is what it is.

mugofbeer
04-06-2010, 04:22 PM
All of these things play into the equation. I finished 22 years with my employer and had the best performance of my career but was given the choice of a 40% pay cut or severance. I chose severance and to be my own boss. The company has remained quite profitable throughout the recession but did so with the skin of the employees who remained.

Because it is a privately owned firm and the only ones who bear financial loss are the handful of stockholders, they could have taken the high road and looked at the possibility of a small and TEMPORARY paper loss. Instead they laid off 10% of the workforce rather than letting attrition take care of it and forced 10 to 40% pay cuts on everyone. The "family" made out great - leaner and meaner company - but they contributed significantly to the overall recession and are, IMO, party to making it worse.

Yes, in one way I am a disgruntled former employee but I was given the opportunity to stay. Many of my fellow long-time employees were not. By the time the layoff occurred it was clear the sky wasn't falling and we would survive just as we have done. I just saw the entire episode as another in a long line of actions that proved it was a company that had no loyalty to the employee yet demanded everything of them.

JohnDenver
04-07-2010, 10:46 AM
Some years ago, people started job hopping - the idea of being a company man died.

It is a strange place to put the burden. Companies systematically killed the idea of loyalty to an employee and turned the employee into a number. Moving from pensions to 401ks, cutting benefits or just bundling benefits into your "total pay." Moving more and more to a corporate environment and answering to the boards instead of your employees... All that led the employees to "job hop."

When I started 10 years ago, they offered ESPP in a 2 year sliding window. They granted options twice a year. They paid a bonus twice a year. They gave raises (at least COL raises) once a year. They had on-site gyms, concierge services, subsidized cafes, etc, etc. They paid for our broadband at home and encouraged us to work at home when we wanted.

During that time when all the benefits were there, NO ONE would leave because they had a nice thing going and it was obvious the company wanted to cater to the employees...

Within the past 3 years *all* of those things are gone and they raised our health copays, fired nearly all the remote workers, no longer pay for cell, broadband, gym, cafe is damn near closed, no raises in 4 years and they cut the bonuses to bare minimum.. I would say 30% of my team has left in that time period. Meanwhile the company is pulling in 10% year over year growth and HIGHLY profitable with BILLIONS in the bank.

That is what makes people job hop. No loyalty to the employee and the their family, then the same degree of loyalty is returned. It is the simple.

PennyQuilts
04-07-2010, 10:57 AM
People began seriously job hopping at least fifteen years ago. My parents' generation took pride in being a company man but they often retired with a pension. My generation started seeing that change. My kids have always been taught - not by me but by their professors and mentors - that the key to getting ahead is to change jobs. It was a little hard to get used to for people who saw that as flightiness. When you stayed, however, you didn't get raises. About the time pensions went away, people started changing jobs for higher salaries. Since I never expected my employer to take care of me, other than what I'd contracted for when I was hired, it never bothered me. I sure don't take it personally. It is business. If I don't like it, I can go start my own business. If I can walk away, they can too.

FFLady
04-07-2010, 11:10 AM
I have been blessed with a great job the past 6 years. But I have been there, done that with many of these stories. I have always been a "Work-to-live, not Live-to-work sorta person.

I thought the trucking company, Arrow, really took the cake by their greedy actions. I can't imagine being a driver and being stranded miles from home all because of bad decisions by the Suits....in my opinion, that totally qualified them for worst employer....

progressiveboy
04-07-2010, 12:06 PM
People began seriously job hopping at least fifteen years ago. My parents' generation took pride in being a company man but they often retired with a pension. My generation started seeing that change. My kids have always been taught - not by me but by their professors and mentors - that the key to getting ahead is to change jobs. It was a little hard to get used to for people who saw that as flightiness. When you stayed, however, you didn't get raises. About the time pensions went away, people started changing jobs for higher salaries. Since I never expected my employer to take care of me, other than what I'd contracted for when I was hired, it never bothered me. I sure don't take it personally. It is business. If I don't like it, I can go start my own business. If I can walk away, they can too. You are correct in the fact many years ago people retired from their companies after 30 40 years of service and loyalty. My grandmother retired from her company after 43 years, my grandfather after 34 years, my father after 25 years. Nowdays, there is no loyalty between employer and employee. Employers today look at people as pawns and that they can be replaced at the drop of the bucket. There is no loyalty from both ends of the spectrum. I have seen where people played by the rules, they were of value and a positive contributor to their organization but were ultimately downsized, fired etc.. It is no wonder that employees jump ship because if they are not going to get satisfaction from doing their jobs "well" then what is the purpose of continuing with that employer other than to draw a paycheck to survive? It is just a symptom of how society treats people in general. Everyone is "expendible" and the days of job security and loyalty are rapidly becoming extinct. How sad.

mugofbeer
04-07-2010, 02:26 PM
In short, employees are felt as nothing more than an expense, like telephone equipment or copy paper.

PennyQuilts
04-07-2010, 06:28 PM
In short, employees are felt as nothing more than an expense, like telephone equipment or copy paper.

Yes, I am pretty sure it has come to that in many places. And likewise, an employer is just a paycheck. The "relationship" that once was expected is hard to find.

gmwise
04-08-2010, 02:15 PM
.... I just saw the entire episode as another in a long line of actions that proved it was a company that had no loyalty to the employee yet demanded everything of them.

I said that a few months ago in wishing we didnt try to attract the call centers, the whole sector has a HUGE turnover..

decepticobra
04-09-2010, 10:15 PM
I have a friend who is a district manager with a large national chain. This chain manages by fear and is constantly threatening jobs. DM's are expected to work from 7 am to 9 pm 6 days a week and be on the phone every Sunday. The regional manager sends hate email and delivers phones calls at all hours of the day and night including Sundays during church. A call was put into to Human Resources to complain about the treatment. They told the caller "That's the way it is around here" and "If I were you I would keep your resume updated". I just find this absolutely mind boggling! Of course this person is looking day and night for another job. Anyone ever heard of a Human Resource manager telling an employee that their company does suck?

sounds like an evil corporation called Convergys, located in Moore off of 35. One that I was unfortunately a pawn of several eons ago.

Speaking of HR depts in general, I was recently informed that many HR depts in various lines of work are the "first to know" about any employee about to get fired from any job. Basically a would be manager that is considering firing any of their minions must clear it through HR to see if it is in fact legal to fire that employee, so that it doesnt break any labor laws.
'
Gee, and all these years I thought employees could be fired for any given reason. ...and yes, in the aforementioned, I am referencing AT WILL states-not RIGHT TO WORK.

Guess Ive been dwelling in a cave all my life as I have never before heard of this.

mugofbeer
04-09-2010, 11:10 PM
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. You do realize that AT WILL and RIGHT TO WORK don't really have anything to do with each other?