View Full Version : Keeping You Less Informed



Steve
02-28-2010, 01:51 PM
In Texas, as in Oklahoma now, public employee unions and legislators attempted to keep employee birth dates secret under the guise of protecting them from identity theft. Of course in each case the proponents can't provide examples of such info being used for criminal conduct. Reporters, meanwhile, can show why keeping such info public is critical to watchdogging government actions.
The Texas effort failed. The following story couldn't have been done without the birthdates remaining open:
Dallas ISD teachers' misconduct with students was kept quiet | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Latest News (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/022810dnmetsexteachers.409f451.html)

Midtowner
02-28-2010, 02:06 PM
Sen. Coffee has at least said he'd vote the other way if it came back to the Senate. It's kind of scary that this bill got a 44-0 vote and didn't receive anyone's full consideration as to its implications.

Steve
02-28-2010, 02:19 PM
I fear legislators will approve this unless people start calling and emailing them telling otherwise. Identity theft is far more likely to occur because of information people provide through social media than through these records. And as the unions fight keeping this data open, is it possible they fear having employees' misconduct and criminal records exposed?

soonerguru
02-28-2010, 03:19 PM
The Oklahoman, crusading for justice by reporting on union members and state workers! Is the Oklahoman just as willing to flex its muckraking muscles against its major corporate friends?

Steve
02-28-2010, 03:21 PM
Soonerguru, do your own digging into my work. This isn't just about The Oklahoman - it's about anyone in this state wanting to keep tabs on what their government is up to. There are plenty of other threads available for bashing on the paper. Rise above your bias on this one and think about what's being attempted here.

soonerguru
02-28-2010, 03:25 PM
Soonerguru, do your own digging into my work. This isn't just about The Oklahoman - it's about anyone in this state wanting to keep tabs on what their government is up to. There are plenty of other threads available for bashing on the paper. Rise above your bias on this one and think about what's being attempted here.

Rise above my bias?

I just find it funny that the Oklahoman always seems to make a big deal about state workers getting DUIs and stuff. The same scrutiny does not seem to apply to major corporate players and their employees in OKC.

I'm looking forward to many copyrighted stories from the I team about state workers not making their child support payments.

For the record, I'm in favor of open records, but there are things far more disconcerting to me than this.

Midtowner
02-28-2010, 03:31 PM
Why is the Oklahoman even relevant here? The same tools that are available to them are available to every single blogger and private citizen out there.

ewoodard
03-01-2010, 09:14 AM
Steve, I have a simple question. How did birthdates apply to the story you linked? I read it and did not see where birthdates could have been or would have been needed. Not trying to cause problems, but I don't see the need for the public to know the birthdays of public employees.

Steve
03-01-2010, 09:42 AM
In order to determine which employees have criminal records, one must have the birthdates. Otherwise if you end up with a name like Joe Smith, you can't figure out whether it's the Joe Smith who teaches your kids or not that also is a sex offender. This article is part of series of stories that's been done by the Dallas Morning News.
Closer to home, The Oklahoman has fought to get the birth date of Ed Martin, who is accused of mismanagement of Weed and Seed funds, to see whether he had any previous incidents relating to this accusation.
As Midtowner said, pretend as if The Oklahoman doesn't exist if this is a problem for you. The issue remains the same - do you want to know if people teaching your kids have a criminal record? Do you want to know if the bus driver had a DUI? Do you want to know if DHS workers have a history of abuse? If Debbie Leftwich's bill becomes law, you won't be able to find these things out.

Larry OKC
03-02-2010, 12:43 AM
True Steve....and as the Oklahoman has pointed out we have a Supreme Court Justice with the same name as (think it was a sex offender)...if you don't know the birth date, the media can't identify.

Am curious as to the identity theft scare part of this as I haven't seen them even give a single instance where that has happened from the birth date being available.

Midtowner
03-02-2010, 05:27 AM
True Steve....and as the Oklahoman has pointed out we have a Supreme Court Justice with the same name as (think it was a sex offender)...if you don't know the birth date, the media can't identify.

Am curious as to the identity theft scare part of this as I haven't seen them even give a single instance where that has happened from the birth date being available.

Well, that's a little hysterical.

Sex offenders have their pictures posted online (assuming they're registered), so it wouldn't be all that hard to figure that one out.

Steve
03-02-2010, 09:31 AM
Midtowner, there are other criminal records that would be far more difficult to match up, including drug use, duis and embezzlement.

Midtowner
03-02-2010, 09:45 AM
Midtowner, there are other criminal records that would be far more difficult to match up, including drug use, duis and embezzlement.

I'm not so sure you couldn't get everything you need with an FOI request. In fact, you could probably get booking photos with such a request, which should be more than enough to keep you from being sued (successfully) for libel.

Remember, the standard for libeling public figures (malice) requires a knowing or reckless disregard for the truth. If you've done everything legally allowable to identify the public official and you still get it wrong because some of your verification tools have been taken away, you're more than likely going to be covered.

So if your liability insurance carrier or your editors are concerned as to their potential exposure here, I'm not so certain that's a valid concern.

But you're right, on the whole, the bill serves no useful purpose and takes just one more tool away from the press and public to scrutinize our public officials.

Steve
03-02-2010, 09:46 AM
This isn't about concerns about getting sued - it's about getting it right if one is concerned about my motives. But this is also a big issue for the public - take away access to this information and government has more ability cloak what it does.

StopDHS
04-01-2010, 09:58 AM
Now maybe someone can help explain this to me. what is the big deal on birth dates? I am not really getting the point as to why people are wanting the birth dates public?

mugofbeer
04-01-2010, 11:00 AM
It helps identify one John G. Smith from the 25 or so other John G. Smiths.

Midtowner
04-02-2010, 08:04 AM
I am not really getting the point as to why people are wanting the birth dates public?

Birth dates ARE public.

The legislature is trying to hide them from the public.