View Full Version : Weigh In on OKC Retail Options

02-27-2010, 05:12 PM
Got this from a friend on fb today. He's working with the Urban Land Institute to consult on retail/restaurant/grocery options in OKC.

I know some of you would be interested in putting in your .02, even if it's just via a survey.

Please take this only:
1. You are a resident of metro OKC
2. one time - if you've received this through another communication stream, don't take it again.

Here's the note from my friend and a link to the survey:

Friends: If you live in the OKC metro area, please take a few minutes to respond to this survey (link below). We want to know where you shop and why! The results of this survey will be presented at a joint luncheon between ICSC, ULI and CREC on April 8th from 11am-1pm. The luncheon topics will be all things retail so please save the date!

Link is here (

02-27-2010, 05:28 PM
Filled it out! Thanks for posting this. Hopefully it will help.

02-27-2010, 05:53 PM
Also completed. Hope it helps.

02-27-2010, 07:30 PM

02-27-2010, 07:53 PM
Done. I hope that enough people participate that it sends a message to those retailers that there is a real interest here.

02-27-2010, 07:54 PM
I'm definitely interested in retail operations, but as for food, I can't see how any of those chains could top our local establishments.

02-27-2010, 09:07 PM
C'mon Costco...time to give Sam's Club a run!

And as an aside, I would love to see one of these folk's projects here in OKC. I have been to their center in Columbus, OH and it is very well done. I think one would work here well.

02-27-2010, 09:50 PM
I will not complete it. Distance is NOT minutes. Distance is MILES

02-27-2010, 09:54 PM
I am willing to travel 15 minutes for XYZ business. I live at 123 AyeBeeCee Street. The drive is 6 miles, but the traffic makes it a 15 minute drive.

I am willing to travel 20 minutes for ABC business. I live at 123 X-Why-Zee Street. The drive is 20 miles, highway. I can make that in about 20 minutes.

I don't see what the big deal is?

02-27-2010, 10:31 PM
I wish there was an "EXTREMELY LIKELY to visit" button next to whole foods and trader joes

Larry OKC
02-28-2010, 12:20 AM

02-28-2010, 08:11 AM
I will not complete it. Distance is NOT minutes. Distance is MILES

Uh...if I lived in an area with very high traffic where 10 miles takes 30 minutes, then that is someplace I would be much less likely to travel far to than if the drive were 10 miles miles and took 10 minutes.

In this case, miles is irrelevant. Distance as minutes is a much more useful measure of willingness to travel than distance as miles...unless of course you drive a Hummer or something that gets crappy MPG highway or city, and you can't afford the gas...

Plus if we ever get decent and widely-used mass transit, miles certainly become irrelevant as people who travel this way typically measure distances in transit time.

Anyhow, nice survey! I hope it makes a difference. Although I'm pretty sure some of the stores have very little chance of coming here (In-and-Out Burger, Trader Joe's, etc).

02-28-2010, 04:57 PM

03-02-2010, 05:19 PM
Not sure how much it helps, but I encourage everyone on here to complete this.

03-02-2010, 06:41 PM

03-02-2010, 08:32 PM
Good survey. But they have been talking about trying to get these type of establishments for years!!! It is sad that we have to go to Tulsa, Dallas, or Kansas City, (or the internet) to get the higher end shops. That means sales tax going to other cities.

I know the OKC Chamber wanted a park so bad, but they really haven't been trying to get these retailers here in OKC. And before I get a tongue lashing from other posters, I know MAPS 3 will bring them in, but they also said that about MAPS 1 and 2.

I am just tired of the talk, I want action, it has been a long time!! :Smiley208

03-02-2010, 08:39 PM
Done. As much as I love In-N-Out I doubt we will see one in OK for a VERY long time if ever.

Whole Foods? I really want them in OKC. I have been going to the Louisville KY store for the occasional "nice" meal during my temporary stay here. The meat alone is worth the trip. You really can tell the difference in taste, and honestly the price isn't that bad for the quality you get.

03-02-2010, 09:28 PM
CHayes...I'm not at all sure that MAPS 3 will "bring them in." In fact, I'm almost positive that MAPS by itself won't. Attracting national chains really isn't a major goal of MAPS. And, how do you know that the Chamber has not been "trying very hard?" I would be interested to know what they are doing, exactly. But I'm not ready to dog them without more knowledge on the subject.

Some people assume that these retail operations either do not do their homework, or for some reason they want to be everyplace else in the country but are out to actively punish OKC or something like that. Very few upscale national chains are in aggressive growth modes at the moment. When these chains do expand, they look at things like number of high-income households in a given radius, how many people in a non-served area are shopping at their stores in other places, etc.

These kinds of surveys might make a little bit of a difference, and OKC residents should take a minute to fill it out. Can't hurt. But in the end, I think it is our local demographics (income, level of education, etc.) and the national economy that will ultimately be the deciding factors.

03-02-2010, 09:35 PM
By the way, here's a little known fact... The CEO of Bergdorf Goodman in New York is a Casady graduate. He obviously knows OKC. Perhaps an intrepid Oklahoman reporter should get his take on what upscale chains look for when they expand.

Larry OKC
03-02-2010, 10:33 PM
Interesting to note the thoughts in this thread compared to the Keep it local OK movement thread...which is we want to support locally owned businesses or do we want more national chain type stores? LOL

03-02-2010, 10:42 PM
Larry... Interesting question that has merit. I think it depends on the situation. I wouldn't worry about the survival of Homeland if OKC got a Whole Foods. On the other hand, a Neimans or Saks might devastate Balliets. Probably the local argument is best made when referring to stores that sell similiar products...Full Circle over Barnes and Noble, that toy store on Western over Toys R Us. Also restaurants, mom and pop gift places, etc. A mix of options is the best.

03-03-2010, 07:32 AM
By the way, here's a little known fact... The CEO of Bergdorf Goodman in New York is a Casady graduate. He obviously knows OKC. Perhaps an intrepid Oklahoman reporter should get his take on what upscale chains look for when they expand. Then obviously, that is why Bergdorf Goodman is not in OKC. I understand that people in OKC are wanting to get more choices in upscale shops, stores etc...but wanting and getting them are two different things. I believe the demographics just do not quite measure up "currently". However, perhaps in the future this will change for OKC. People in OKC are working class people and what affluence there is in OKC most of these people shop in Tulsa, Dallas, Kansas City which have superior demographics and disposable incomes. Retailers only go into a marketplace where they either know or where they have a very good idea that they would be able to survive and make a profit. OKC does not have a Highland Park Villiage, Utica Square or The Plaza in KC.

03-03-2010, 07:37 AM
I was just in Utica Square this past weekend. It's respectable, but I don't see how Nichols Hills Plaza and Classen Curve are any different if not better. NHP has more tenants. Sure we don't have all the high end chain shops like they do, but the shopping center itself is old and run down and could use a lot of maintenance, just like NHP. Progressiveboy, you also always tend to forget to mention cost of living index and disposable income is higher here. Something national retailers typically don't look at but should.

03-03-2010, 08:28 AM
Uh, we've supported a Chanel store for as long as I can remember. People with higher incomes shop in Dallas and Kansas City (not Tulsa!) because they have to, not because they want to. It's a pain to drive to Dallas to shop. Regardless of what our demographics are, a city the size of Oklahoma City has enough people with a lot of disposable income to easily support most of the stores that are passing us by. Precisely as metro said, retailers look at income, not disposable income and that's a mistake for them. Stores like Anthropologie are in cities like Omaha, Birmingham and Boise, and I truly believe they would do far better here.

But, a problem with Nichols Hills Plaza that would have to be rememdied to get any of the higher end national chains is the fact that stores are only open until 5. Classen Curve is going to get evening business because of the number of restaurants it has in it, so that may be an option.

03-03-2010, 08:34 AM
I often compare this (income vs. disposable income) to a persons credit score. A credit score is simple a measure of how one handles debt, it has nothing to do with how one handles wealth or money, and definitely does not measure one's net worth. I can make 8 figures and be reckless with my money (most pro athletes blow through their fortunes in less than 10 years) and have a poor credit score, and not qualify for a loan, and yet have millions in disposable income. I can make minimum wage and "manage" my "credit" very well and have a high credit score but retailers aren't coming to me because I have excellent credit or can qualify for a "A paper" loan. I can live in OKC, pay less in rent/mortgage, pay less for groceries, gas, etc. and have more disposable income then if I was making a moderate pay increase in San Diego in a bigger city, commuting farther, paying more for groceries, gas, insurance, mortgage/rent, eating out, etc. This country has it backwards on measuring wealth and disposable income. I had a colleague here from San Francisco last week. He makes more than I do, yet I have MUCH more disposable income than he does, he was blown away dispite the payscale increase of bigger cities. Retailers should consider the cost of living index into their formulas.