View Full Version : Again, Tulsa gets the first store



Pages : [1] 2 3

betts
02-15-2010, 09:46 PM
I just found out Tulsa is getting an Anthropologie. I know they've been looking in Oklahoma City, but who knows if they'll decide to build a store here? We must be doing something wrong, marketing wise. I cannot believe that even if our average income is slightly lower, the difference in population doesn't ameliorate that. Then, if people here go to Tulsa to shop there, management will be perfectly happy not putting a store here. Just like Whole Foods (although I realize it arrived in Tulsa through the back door). Aaaargh!

betts
02-15-2010, 10:25 PM
Looks like they're getting an Urban and a Free People too. Sigh. :

Anthropologie Jobs in Tulsa, OK | Indeed.com (http://www.indeed.com/q-Anthropologie-l-Tulsa,-OK-jobs.html)

redrunner
02-15-2010, 10:33 PM
Most likely the same job postings for Anthropologie. The job descriptions all mention Anthropologie. Urban Outfitters, Free People, and Anthropologie are all owned by Urban Outfitters Inc.

Larry OKC
02-16-2010, 01:04 AM
Not really uncommon...seems Tulsa gets the stores first (for whatever reason) and then OKC a few years later

betts
02-16-2010, 06:38 AM
They've been looking at Classen Curve and Nichols Hills Plaza. The problem is, they don't like malls, they like open air malls or freestanding buildings. Nichols Hills Plaza doesn't stay open at night, and they need one that does. Classen Curve's narrow buildings don't fit their store layout as well, and there's not really any retail there yet. I assume they're going in at Utica Square, which fits their concept perfectly. We have no Utica Square equivalent.

But, when there are Anthropologie stores in Birmingham, Boise and Jacksonville, and now coming to Tulsa, I have to ask what we're doing wrong marketing ourselves. We should be able to compete with cities like that.

dmoor82
02-16-2010, 06:47 AM
^^^ wouldnt The Bricktown canal be a good location?or EK Gaylord and Reno where those new shops are in that old parking lot south of The amtrack depot,what about Campus corner in Norman?whole lot of diff. options!

onthestrip
02-16-2010, 06:55 AM
^^^ wouldnt The Bricktown canal be a good location?or EK Gaylord and Reno where those new shops are in that old parking lot south of The amtrack depot,what about Campus corner in Norman?whole lot of diff. options!

To answer your question, no and no. Bricktown and campus corner are no places for a reatailer like this, at least right now.

I think we don't get these stores because of spread out demographics, we have no large concentration of high income household. Also, as mentioned above, we have only a few quality centers for an anthropologie to locate. The design and layout of classen curve doesn't help either.

okcpulse
02-16-2010, 07:18 AM
Based on what I have researched thus far, domegraphics is not the issue. Real estate departments for retailers have confirmed this.

Developments are exactly the issue. They have the demographics but not the location. Many of these stores do not build their own locations. They rent, and they want a location where they know they can do well.

I am hoping that Tuscana at Quail Springs can offer just that once the developers start the brick and mortar construction. At this point, Classen Curve, Nichols Hills Plaza and even 50 Penn Place do not work. Classen Curve is not on a major traffic arterial. Nichols Hills Plaza does not have the hours. 50 Penn Place has pretty much lost all of their foot traffic. Spring Creek in Edmond is booked solid, and so is Penn Square Mall.

On top of Tuscana, I really think Penn Square Mall should consider expanding. In order to attract high end retail, that it what Woodlands Mall in The Woodlands, TX had to do. without the open-air wing on the north side, Urban Outfitters and Anthropogie wouldn't be at that mall.

metro
02-16-2010, 07:19 AM
They've been looking at Classen Curve and Nichols Hills Plaza. The problem is, they don't like malls, they like open air malls or freestanding buildings. Nichols Hills Plaza doesn't stay open at night, and they need one that does. Classen Curve's narrow buildings don't fit their store layout as well, and there's not really any retail there yet. I assume they're going in at Utica Square, which fits their concept perfectly. We have no Utica Square equivalent.

But, when there are Anthropologie stores in Birmingham, Boise and Jacksonville, and now coming to Tulsa, I have to ask what we're doing wrong marketing ourselves. We should be able to compete with cities like that.

I agree. Maybe University North Park in Norman fits the demographic, and layout requirements though. I strongly believe the Chamber does not market correctly as several of you have stated. I believe Alison Oshel is in charge of things like this. Not sure if anything has come to fruition in the last few years from the Chambers effort. Might be time to hire someone from outside Oklahoma, or if nothing else, hire Tulsa's retail recruiter.

okcpulse
02-16-2010, 08:12 AM
I agree. Maybe University North Park in Norman fits the demographic, and layout requirements though. I strongly believe the Chamber does not market correctly as several of you have stated. I believe Alison Oshel is in charge of things like this. Not sure if anything has come to fruition in the last few years from the Chambers effort. Might be time to hire someone from outside Oklahoma, or if nothing else, hire Tulsa's retail recruiter.

I second that. The Chamber's site has OKC's figures from 2004 sitting on their page. That's six years ago. WTF???

BG918
02-16-2010, 08:23 AM
To answer your question, no and no. Bricktown and campus corner are no places for a reatailer like this, at least right now.

I think we don't get these stores because of spread out demographics, we have no large concentration of high income household. Also, as mentioned above, we have only a few quality centers for an anthropologie to locate. The design and layout of classen curve doesn't help either.

I disagree about Campus Corner, it is a perfect location for such a store especially Urban Outfitters. Go to other larger college towns, similar in size or even smaller than Norman, and you will see similar retailers in their respective Campus Corner-like areas. I would argue Campus Corner is the retail district most like Utica Square in the OKC Metro, not because it's high end but that it's the most walkable and urban...

onthestrip
02-16-2010, 09:07 AM
I think it has less to do with the chamber or our "retail recruiter" and more to do with the other factors. Property owners usually do a good job to make retailers aware of their centers and the city.

FritterGirl
02-16-2010, 09:23 AM
Utica is the perfect set up for Anthropologie, and as much as I had to admit it, I'll likely drive up to go. It's really one of my all-time favorite stores.

Utica is a spacious, traditional-looking outdoor shopping center in the heart of one of Tulsa's most exclusive neighborhoods. It has big anchor stores and restaurants, and a broad demographic appeal and variety of shops (including some highly successful LOCAL shops and restaurant concepts).

It's destination shopping and fills multiple gaps that a trip to the mall cannot.

OKC has little of its equivalent. Nichols Hills Plaza is close in terms of concept, but it has no major retail anchor, and not chains of anykind (save for Starbucks) - which is both a plus (great local shops) and a minus (can't use local shops to anchor regional/national type stores).

Classen Curve, IMO is a mess. Aesthetically unappealing AS A SHOPPING CONSTRUCT (I generally like most of Rand's work), poor location (across from a graveyard), and has little to no curb appeal.

It will likely also NOT draw in high-enough traffic counts to warrant big-name shopping anytime soon. The structures are intimidating, not at all welcoming to the average shopper, so even if they move Balliet's and the Chanel and/or other exclusive retailers in there, retailers with a more mid-to-high price point (not high price point) will likely avoid the place.

okcpulse
02-16-2010, 09:26 AM
Tuscana is still on track, BTW...

Tuscana (http://www.massey-mann.com/mma1_006.htm)

http://www.rcldevelopment.com/quail_springs.php

I check with the developers from time to time for a status.

metro
02-16-2010, 09:54 AM
I think it has less to do with the chamber or our "retail recruiter" and more to do with the other factors. Property owners usually do a good job to make retailers aware of their centers and the city.

So are you saying we should get rid of our "retail recruiter" or that our "retail recruiter" is doing a good job. Let me ask you this, in the last 4 years, what major retailers has the Chamber and CVB really landed. I don't buy the "NBA" answer as Bennett and Co. were already deadset on moving the team here.

BG918
02-16-2010, 10:47 AM
Utica is the perfect set up for Anthropologie, and as much as I had to admit it, I'll likely drive up to go. It's really one of my all-time favorite stores.

Utica is a spacious, traditional-looking outdoor shopping center in the heart of one of Tulsa's most exclusive neighborhoods. It has big anchor stores and restaurants, and a broad demographic appeal and variety of shops (including some highly successful LOCAL shops and restaurant concepts).

It's destination shopping and fills multiple gaps that a trip to the mall cannot.

OKC has little of its equivalent. Nichols Hills Plaza is close in terms of concept, but it has no major retail anchor, and not chains of anykind (save for Starbucks) - which is both a plus (great local shops) and a minus (can't use local shops to anchor regional/national type stores).

Classen Curve, IMO is a mess. Aesthetically unappealing AS A SHOPPING CONSTRUCT (I generally like most of Rand's work), poor location (across from a graveyard), and has little to no curb appeal.

It will likely also NOT draw in high-enough traffic counts to warrant big-name shopping anytime soon. The structures are intimidating, not at all welcoming to the average shopper, so even if they move Balliet's and the Chanel and/or other exclusive retailers in there, retailers with a more mid-to-high price point (not high price point) will likely avoid the place.

I agree, Nichols Hills Plaza has a much nicer feel than Classen Curve ever will. Too bad they spent the money building the Curve instead of fixing up NHP. OKC's lack of a Utica Square-type area is the biggest detriment to not landing certain high end retailers, IMO.

soonerguru
02-16-2010, 12:02 PM
They've been looking at Classen Curve and Nichols Hills Plaza. The problem is, they don't like malls, they like open air malls or freestanding buildings. Nichols Hills Plaza doesn't stay open at night, and they need one that does. Classen Curve's narrow buildings don't fit their store layout as well, and there's not really any retail there yet. I assume they're going in at Utica Square, which fits their concept perfectly. We have no Utica Square equivalent.

But, when there are Anthropologie stores in Birmingham, Boise and Jacksonville, and now coming to Tulsa, I have to ask what we're doing wrong marketing ourselves. We should be able to compete with cities like that.

Doesn't the Chamber employ someone whose job it is to recruit retailers to OKC? If not, they need to hire one. If so, someone needs to do a better job.

Tulsa is hurting economically right now, much more so than OKC. Plus, OKC is a bigger city.

I think what may skew our stats is that so many of Tulsa's uber-rich live in the Midtown area, whereas ours live in Nichols Hills and Edmond.

Sprawl hurts us in this regard, IMO.

OKCMallen
02-16-2010, 12:03 PM
I think Bricktown is the answer. Plenty of undeveloped space that could easily become retail. Already a high foot-traffic area. Already an area with many hotels within walking distance.

soonerguru
02-16-2010, 12:07 PM
And I second what was said about Classen Curve. I actually think it's a disaster. It would seem to me based on general track record that the person most able to deliver in this town development-wise is Randy Hogan. Granted, Lower Bricktown is less than ideal, but if anyone could put together a Utica Square-style development in OKC it would be him, in my opinion.

progressiveboy
02-16-2010, 12:16 PM
I agree, Nichols Hills Plaza has a much nicer feel than Classen Curve ever will. Too bad they spent the money building the Curve instead of fixing up NHP. OKC's lack of a Utica Square-type area is the biggest detriment to not landing certain high end retailers, IMO. I personally like the feel of CC because it is something different and is quite forward thinking and innovative in architecture and style. It is not your typical cookie cutter shopping development found all over the OKC area. I am glad that Audrey McClendon and the developer decided to not go with the traditional, provincial look that is found in typical fashion in OKC. This development in Dallas would be a huge hit. Nichols Hills Plaza is nice but I am glad to see other options open up for OKC.

OKCTalker
02-16-2010, 12:23 PM
The main problem with Classen Curve and Nichols Hills Plaza is that its owner is an energy exploration guy, not a real estate guy, and this is a sidelight for him. I know the same could be said for Utica Square's owner, Walt Helmerich, but he's been running Utica for 46 years, and has done a helluva good job with branding, cosmetics and marketing. Now, for 30 of the past 46 years Tulsa had a reputaton for being more "cosmopolitan" and all of that, but OKC has pulled away ever since. It's OKC's time to excel, but we won't succeed if our local retail development leader has only two ideas: A campus so full of cookie-cutter buildings that it looks like low-income housing, or baffling, cold and unappealing buildings designed by Rand Elliot. Sorry to be so blunt, but we're not going to win with this strategy.

BG918
02-16-2010, 12:24 PM
The link posted doesn't specify where this store is going, I would assume Utica Square possibly the vacant Harold's location, but not positive. There is a vacant Harold's in Campus Corner as well...

shane453
02-16-2010, 12:35 PM
The link posted doesn't specify where this store is going, I would assume Utica Square possibly the vacant Harold's location, but not positive. There is a vacant Harold's in Campus Corner as well...

I think all the space vacated by Harold's is already occupied again- they had an outlet which is now Iron Starr Urban BBQ, and the main store which is now an expansion of Cafe Plaid. I think they also had offices in Sooner Theater, and that is Chipotle and Subway now.

I would think Campus Corner would be ideal for Urban/Antropologie, it is the most organic urban shopping district in the state next to the densest concentration of young, urban (future) professionals in the state.

brownb01
02-16-2010, 12:39 PM
Utica is the perfect set up for Anthropologie, and as much as I had to admit it, I'll likely drive up to go. It's really one of my all-time favorite stores.

Utica is a spacious, traditional-looking outdoor shopping center in the heart of one of Tulsa's most exclusive neighborhoods. It has big anchor stores and restaurants, and a broad demographic appeal and variety of shops (including some highly successful LOCAL shops and restaurant concepts).

It's destination shopping and fills multiple gaps that a trip to the mall cannot.

OKC has little of its equivalent. Nichols Hills Plaza is close in terms of concept, but it has no major retail anchor, and not chains of anykind (save for Starbucks) - which is both a plus (great local shops) and a minus (can't use local shops to anchor regional/national type stores).

Classen Curve, IMO is a mess. Aesthetically unappealing AS A SHOPPING CONSTRUCT (I generally like most of Rand's work), poor location (across from a graveyard), and has little to no curb appeal.

It will likely also NOT draw in high-enough traffic counts to warrant big-name shopping anytime soon. The structures are intimidating, not at all welcoming to the average shopper, so even if they move Balliet's and the Chanel and/or other exclusive retailers in there, retailers with a more mid-to-high price point (not high price point) will likely avoid the place.

A lot of this changes with the new grocery store going in. It will draw high traffic, and will be an upper end retail location, a lot like utica square. And if ya think about it some...utica doesn't have good curb appeal either from the main street.

Classen Curve will be the closest thing OKC will ever have to Utica Square. The NH plaza is going to dry up with in the next couple of years. Lot of retailers will move to Classen Curve.

betts
02-16-2010, 12:47 PM
Campus Corner doesn't have the right demographics for Anthro. Surprisingly, their most active demographic is 30 to 40 somethings with a reasonably high income, which is why Nichols Hills Plaza and Classen Curve would be the perfect location, if conditions were right. Urban would be perfect in Norman, however. I don't know where they're going in Tulsa, but I would expect Utica Square.

The reason Nichols Hills Plaza didn't get remodeled is the intransigence of some of the people living around there. Aubrey wanted to add a third storey to both sides and put housing above the shops. Neighbors threw a fit about parking and what they felt would be higher traffic, as well as not wanting a third storey to block their view of something. But, when you make changes in NH, everybody gets involved, and you don't have to be much more than a property owner to have some degree of power. He got really frustrated with all the negativity, I heard, and that's why he built Classen Curve. If it had been bigger or if it lures any retail over from the Plaza, it's really going to hurt Nichols Hills, which relies on water sales and sales tax to fund their police and fire departments.

OKCTalker
02-16-2010, 01:01 PM
Although Aubrey has lots of friends and fans in Nichols Hills, he can't blame residents for objecting to his plans. With typical secrecy, he asked for a blank check on his development plans and was told "no." Yes, a huge chunk of the Nichols Hills municipal tax base is from retail sales tax collections at NHP, so clearing a big chunk of it for construction would severely impact city revenues, and he didn't have an answer for that either. As this was all being deliberated, gas prices were starting to plunge, Aubrey's CHK margin call came in October 2008, and the stock market fell apart the next month.

circuitboard
02-16-2010, 01:07 PM
Well only one place on utica square map is empty, #24, seems small, but does make sense the Anthropologie in highland park village, in Dallas, is small also.

Utica Square - Map (http://www.uticasquare.com/map/map.asp)

metro
02-16-2010, 02:40 PM
I think all the space vacated by Harold's is already occupied again- they had an outlet which is now Iron Starr Urban BBQ, and the main store which is now an expansion of Cafe Plaid. I think they also had offices in Sooner Theater, and that is Chipotle and Subway now.

I would think Campus Corner would be ideal for Urban/Antropologie, it is the most organic urban shopping district in the state next to the densest concentration of young, urban (future) professionals in the state.

It's Iron Starr BBQ & there is also an In The Raw Sushi

metro
02-16-2010, 02:42 PM
I agree, Nichols Hills Plaza has a much nicer feel than Classen Curve ever will. Too bad they spent the money building the Curve instead of fixing up NHP. OKC's lack of a Utica Square-type area is the biggest detriment to not landing certain high end retailers, IMO.

FYI, they've already publically said that Nichols Hills Plaza renovations are next and will be done in 2 phases. Think of Classen Curve as a decent moving spot until the completely occupied Nichols Hills Plaza gets its renovations. And besides who knows, NONE of us know or have seen Chesapeakes master development plan for the area. It may all make sense once we see the bigger picture. Especially if say Whole Foods (which is rumored to be) moving in adjacent from the NE corner of Classen Curve.

onthestrip
02-16-2010, 04:06 PM
So are you saying we should get rid of our "retail recruiter" or that our "retail recruiter" is doing a good job. Let me ask you this, in the last 4 years, what major retailers has the Chamber and CVB really landed. I don't buy the "NBA" answer as Bennett and Co. were already deadset on moving the team here.

I have no idea what retailer the chamber has landed, I guess when there is a new one I just credit the developer/broker that lands it. There is only so much OKC's recruiter can do, they definitely dont deserve the blame. Its mostly up to our city planners and developers. And I would imagine Allison Oshel is probably trying to attract bigger things than an Anthropoligie that will only employ a handful of people.

I know they hired someone to recruit retailers for the downtwon area but I doubt she (I think it was a she) will be able to attract much. You cant make retailers locate downtown when it is currently a retail wasteland. Once you get a couple more thousand DT residents things might change.

onthestrip
02-16-2010, 04:17 PM
A lot of this changes with the new grocery store going in. It will draw high traffic, and will be an upper end retail location, a lot like utica square. And if ya think about it some...utica doesn't have good curb appeal either from the main street.

Classen Curve will be the closest thing OKC will ever have to Utica Square. The NH plaza is going to dry up with in the next couple of years. Lot of retailers will move to Classen Curve.

Utica doesnt need much curb appeal because it is a destination, has large anchors and many other smaller tenants. Having a Whole Foods near CC will bring more traffic but it being across the street certainly doesnt help CC very much.

And God help us if CC is the closest thing to Utica we will ever have. However, I dont think that will be the case, always will be something new and improved.

scootinger
02-16-2010, 08:19 PM
Classen Curve will be the closest thing OKC will ever have to Utica Square. The NH plaza is going to dry up with in the next couple of years. Lot of retailers will move to Classen Curve.

Will ever have? Maybe for the next few years, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that OKC will never have any sort of retail development on par with Utica Square.

brownb01
02-16-2010, 08:53 PM
Will ever have? Maybe for the next few years, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that OKC will never have any sort of retail development on par with Utica Square.

I hope you're right, but so far for the past 35 years...it hasn't happened.

Nichols Hills is the closest thing OKC has to Tulsa's midtown, if anything is to develop with the character of Utica, it will be in this area.

I think you guys will be surprised with CC after it all completed, whole foods and all. It will draw a certain type of crowd, simular to Utica Square, and with the growth of Chesapeake continuing, it will someday evolve into something to be proud off. Lots of areas very near to CC that could still be developed someday in far future, and house large anchor tenants!

Chase
02-16-2010, 10:38 PM
I am glad to hear Oklahoma is getting more visibility from retailers. This is a high profile opening for the state in a down economy.

BG918
02-17-2010, 08:56 AM
I think all the space vacated by Harold's is already occupied again- they had an outlet which is now Iron Starr Urban BBQ, and the main store which is now an expansion of Cafe Plaid. I think they also had offices in Sooner Theater, and that is Chipotle and Subway now.

I would think Campus Corner would be ideal for Urban/Antropologie, it is the most organic urban shopping district in the state next to the densest concentration of young, urban (future) professionals in the state.

The actual Harold's is still empty. Part of it was taken up by an expansion of Cafe Plaid but an Urban Outfitters or Anthropologie-sized chunk of space is still available.

z28james
02-17-2010, 09:55 AM
For those who don't know me, I am the store manager of a certain kids plastic blocks store at Penn Square. I can tell you that from first hand experience the reasons why a certain specialty store came to OKC in ascending order, keep in mind that the people who pick where stores will be built are in Denmark. 1. They heard and read all the news stories on how great OKC was with growth and the NBA. 2. They liked the demographics. 3. They liked the mall and the low costs. Having said that off the record, they also looked at Tulsa for kicks and did not see any of those 3 on their visits, doesn't mean it isn't true though. Since there are only 39 stores in the the company, I think that says a lot that we have one, we are probably in the 2nd smallest market for our company, but lets just say we do more in sales than a lot of others.

As far as Antropologie, I have been told by mall workers(not mall management) that they are on the list of trying to get into Penn Square, but since its at 100% they have to wait, same with Forever 21.

okclee
02-17-2010, 10:45 AM
What happened to the 50 Penn, retail?

It seems to me if the same people managed Penn Square were to manage 50 Penn we could add more stores.

Then if the managing company were to add some kind of free bus trolley to move people back and forth between the two malls, instant connection.

OKCTalker
02-17-2010, 11:29 AM
50 Penn - Dead retail location for a long time, primarily due to ingress/egress issues, parking, competition from PSM, and tenants-in-common issues.

Simon Properties wouldn't develop synergy by owning two locations across from each other, especially with the TIC problem, and were they to near 100% occupancy at PSM, they'd simply raise rental rates.

circuitboard
02-17-2010, 12:21 PM
I would like to see 50 Penn bulldozed and something similar to Park Lane (http://www.parklanedallas.com/) constructed.

z28james
02-18-2010, 09:45 AM
I read yesterday that Simon tied to buy GGP for 10 Billion, and GGP rejected it! I would have sold out and bought a tiny little island in the pacific and relax like on the Corona commercials.

Jethrol
02-18-2010, 08:23 PM
CC will be successful because it's a new venue and will add flavor to the area. It will have higher end retail and it will have kind of a special appeal because it's turned in on itself....so when you're there, it'll feel more intimate and special.

NH Plaza will get a makeover. Chesapeake owns both locations and with the downturn in the economy/gas prices, certain plans had to be slowed down. That doesn't mean they were cancelled.

I love OKC but I can't for the life of me understand why so many of you dog new development so much. I remember when the first maps program was being proposed and many people in OKC just couldn't see the vision. I heard comments like, "We don't need a ditch in downtown OKC" and "Why spend so much for a new baseball park, we're still not getting a major league team" and many other comments that bashed the plans.

Now I didn't agree with all the original maps plans but I sure like what it's done for our city. There is no way we'd have the Thunder here if not for that original maps plan. Yeah I know...it didn't bring the Thunder here but it started the process of investing in our city in a big way and there is a direct line from that program all the way to where we are now.

Have a little more faith people. IMO the CC will be a HUGE success and provide a very unique shopping experience. 3-5 years from now, you'll agree with me.....just watch. :fighting3

icecold
02-18-2010, 09:05 PM
I would think Campus Corner would be ideal for Urban/Antropologie, it is the most organic urban shopping district in the state next to the densest concentration of young, urban (future) professionals in the state.

I am not sure I would say it is "ideal" but that being said I think it could work there. East Lansing, MI (where MSU is) has a campus corner a lot like Norman. They have an Urban Outfitters there and it was busy a random weekday when I was there, then again East Lansing is quite a bit more "urban" than Norman.

brownb01
02-19-2010, 02:02 PM
CC will be successful because it's a new venue and will add flavor to the area. It will have higher end retail and it will have kind of a special appeal because it's turned in on itself....so when you're there, it'll feel more intimate and special.

NH Plaza will get a makeover. Chesapeake owns both locations and with the downturn in the economy/gas prices, certain plans had to be slowed down. That doesn't mean they were cancelled.

I love OKC but I can't for the life of me understand why so many of you dog new development so much. I remember when the first maps program was being proposed and many people in OKC just couldn't see the vision. I heard comments like, "We don't need a ditch in downtown OKC" and "Why spend so much for a new baseball park, we're still not getting a major league team" and many other comments that bashed the plans.

Now I didn't agree with all the original maps plans but I sure like what it's done for our city. There is no way we'd have the Thunder here if not for that original maps plan. Yeah I know...it didn't bring the Thunder here but it started the process of investing in our city in a big way and there is a direct line from that program all the way to where we are now.

Have a little more faith people. IMO the CC will be a HUGE success and provide a very unique shopping experience. 3-5 years from now, you'll agree with me.....just watch. :fighting3

I agree 100%. You are right on track.

BDP
02-19-2010, 02:42 PM
I'd say the biggest reason that you sometimes see this is that our best mall is full, not very big, and hard to get into. It is one of the highest grossing malls per square foot in the country.

The other reason is that no one who has had the opportunity to build anything for retail has basically chosen not to or compromised it to such a degree that no real retail synergy is achievable (lower bricktown is the best example. Automobile Alley is another).

Oklahoma City's density demographics for retail sucks and one of the few places to really capitalize and sell good demographics is always full and no attempt has really been made to overcome it.

That being said, I can't say that I'm going to lament not being first in the state to get the next mall chain store, because 1) I have the internet, 2) I don't go to the mall unless I have to, and 3) at this point, I'd much rather have the things we have that Tulsa doesn't than what they have and we don't. Obviously, that's simply personal preference, but I will certainly have more fun at NBA games than going to an Anthropolgie, for example.

Besides, didn't we get Apple first and a Lego store first? I know Lego's not "high end" (not sure that an "upscale" Urban Outfitters is high end either), but it's more fun and an example of that it does happen. But oh well... let the chain store envy continue...

Spartan
02-19-2010, 06:28 PM
I think what may skew our stats is that so many of Tulsa's uber-rich live in the Midtown area, whereas ours live in Nichols Hills and Edmond.


Yeah, that's somewhat true. But the entire south side of Tulsa seems very affluent. It's hard to tell a difference in affluence from the area around 21st and Utica to the area around 41st and Lewis to the area around 81st and Yale to the area around 111th and Sheridan. My point is that it's all incredibly affluent.

The state's #1 highest income ZIP is Midtown Tulsa. #2 is far-south Tulsa, across the Arkansas River from Jenks. And speaking of Jenks, that's also a highly affluent rapidly-growing area. So is Bixby and Owasso, and BA is at least as "affluent" as Moore or Yukon (mix of middle class and upper-middle class).

BG918 hit it on the head. OKC lacks quality urban development like Tulsa has in abundance. 21st Street in Tulsa is just loaded with dense, urban development..that's attractive.

dismayed
02-19-2010, 07:59 PM
It is really surprising how attractive pretty much any development that goes up in Tulsa is. In the OKC metro we just don't get the same long-term quality. I'm not sure why. I just don't believe that the issue is building codes.

z28james
02-19-2010, 09:54 PM
I'd say the biggest reason that you sometimes see this is that our best mall is full, not very big, and hard to get into. It is one of the highest grossing malls per square foot in the country.

The other reason is that no one who has had the opportunity to build anything for retail has basically chosen not to or compromised it to such a degree that no real retail synergy is achievable (lower bricktown is the best example. Automobile Alley is another).

Oklahoma City's density demographics for retail sucks and one of the few places to really capitalize and sell good demographics is always full and no attempt has really been made to overcome it.

That being said, I can't say that I'm going to lament not being first in the state to get the next mall chain store, because 1) I have the internet, 2) I don't go to the mall unless I have to, and 3) at this point, I'd much rather have the things we have that Tulsa doesn't than what they have and we don't. Obviously, that's simply personal preference, but I will certainly have more fun at NBA games than going to an Anthropolgie, for example.

Besides, didn't we get Apple first and a Lego store first? I know Lego's not "high end" (not sure that an "upscale" Urban Outfitters is high end either), but it's more fun and an example of that it does happen. But oh well... let the chain store envy continue...

BDP, I would say you are correct. My store is certainly not high end, because the prices on our bricks are cheaper than TRU and Target, but its a destination store. 1/4th, I said 1/4th of my customers that come in are from out of state or Tulsa(Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, West Texas). And when summer hits its much higher. In most cases, a lot of people from the states north of us come down for a weekend trip to see us, then I would purposely tell them about Bricktown and Frontier City, Zoo, etc...and on their way back home they would shop more before their drive back and tell my employees what a great time they had here and never knew we had all this. Most of our out of state shoppers are from Wichita, Little Rock and Kansas City because the closest store north is in Chicago. When we grand opened last year the mall told us we had the longest grand opening line ever for the mall and our month events bring in more people than any other store at one time. Enough tooting my stores horn, but that's good for everyone's local business's, I am very happy to take out of state money to help our local economy.

Jethrol
02-19-2010, 10:22 PM
*we need a delete post button*

kevinpate
02-20-2010, 09:22 AM
BDP, I would say you are correct. My store is certainly not high end, because the prices on our bricks are cheaper than TRU and Target, but its a destination store. 1/4th, I said 1/4th of my customers that come in are from out of state or Tulsa(Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, West Texas). And when summer hits its much higher. In most cases, a lot of people from the states north of us come down for a weekend trip to see us, then I would purposely tell them about Bricktown and Frontier City, Zoo, etc...and on their way back home they would shop more before their drive back and tell my employees what a great time they had here and never knew we had all this. Most of our out of state shoppers are from Wichita, Little Rock and Kansas City because the closest store north is in Chicago. When we grand opened last year the mall told us we had the longest grand opening line ever for the mall and our month events bring in more people than any other store at one time. Enough tooting my stores horn, but that's good for everyone's local business's, I am very happy to take out of state money to help our local economy.



:congrats::congrats::congrats:
And the colors are pretty too. But I will ALWAYS hate stepping on one in the dark
:LolLolLol

Jethrol
02-20-2010, 09:18 PM
BDP, I would say you are correct. My store is certainly not high end, because the prices on our bricks are cheaper than TRU and Target, but its a destination store. 1/4th, I said 1/4th of my customers that come in are from out of state or Tulsa(Missouri, Kansas, Arkansas, West Texas). And when summer hits its much higher. In most cases, a lot of people from the states north of us come down for a weekend trip to see us, then I would purposely tell them about Bricktown and Frontier City, Zoo, etc...and on their way back home they would shop more before their drive back and tell my employees what a great time they had here and never knew we had all this. Most of our out of state shoppers are from Wichita, Little Rock and Kansas City because the closest store north is in Chicago. When we grand opened last year the mall told us we had the longest grand opening line ever for the mall and our month events bring in more people than any other store at one time. Enough tooting my stores horn, but that's good for everyone's local business's, I am very happy to take out of state money to help our local economy.
I gotta say, I love your store. Even bought the Start Wars motorized AT-AT. I built it over a weekend and it was great fun. Some of my friends gave me grief for building a toy when I'm over 40 but I don't care....I had fun with it.

I've got to say with your store and the Apple store, Penn Sq has really matured and has a much different feel than it did even 5 years ago.

Spartan
02-20-2010, 11:37 PM
It is really surprising how attractive pretty much any development that goes up in Tulsa is. In the OKC metro we just don't get the same long-term quality. I'm not sure why. I just don't believe that the issue is building codes.

Well I think we can talk all day about how OKC's land run spirit has led to Devon, MAPS, Bricktown, and all this great stuff that we just went out and created.

I think out in the suburbs you see incredible evidence of the land run spirit's downside.. that's the only thing I can think of. Tulsa doesn't quite have the same land run spirit.

z28james
02-21-2010, 03:44 PM
Thanks for the comments Jethrol I am not surprised you built something, we really get a lot of adults, and when I say adults I mean 40-50's that come in and buy stuff for themselves, its fun to see. I am glad its something everyone can enjoy.

I would agree with the the mall, I never shopped there because I live in Norman, but it is amazing how quickly its changed, I think once they can get rid of some of the mom and pop stores still hanging around they will bring more of high end national chains that our community deserves. Only problem is that those mom and pop stores can still rake in some dough there so they may be around awhile.

beedell
02-24-2010, 08:01 PM
Jethrol has the right attitude! I am excited about what I've seen about CC so far, especially because so much of it is local. We can lament that we have no Utica Square, but a lot of that development contains chain stores that I could live without.

Separately, I have spent hundreds if not thousands in a certain store selling plastic blocks.

progressiveboy
03-01-2010, 07:31 PM
Doesn't the Chamber employ someone whose job it is to recruit retailers to OKC? If not, they need to hire one. If so, someone needs to do a better job.

Tulsa is hurting economically right now, much more so than OKC. Plus, OKC is a bigger city.

I think what may skew our stats is that so many of Tulsa's uber-rich live in the Midtown area, whereas ours live in Nichols Hills and Edmond.

Sprawl hurts us in this regard, IMO. Keep in mind that in OKC there are also other high end affluent wealthy folks such as Gallardia and Lake Aluma, Heritage Hills etc... not just NH and Edmond.

warreng88
04-10-2010, 08:27 AM
Utica Square scores Anthropologie store

By KYLE ARNOLD World Staff

Anthropologie, an upscale women's retailer, is coming to Utica Square.

Officials of the shopping center have been working for months on the deal and received a signed lease Friday, said Jessica Judd, a property manager for Helmerich & Payne Inc., which owns the property.

"We're so excited about Anthropologie joining the Utica Square family," Judd said. "We can't convey how proud we are for them to have picked us."

The store will be located in a 7,500-square-foot space formerly occupied by Harold's, next to Pottery Barn. It is expected to open this fall.

The Utica Square location will be the first store in Oklahoma for Anthropologie, a subsidiary of Philadelphia-based Urban Outfitters Inc., which owns retailers Urban Outfitters and Free People.

Anthropologie sells clothing and accessories, catering to women 30 to 45, according to the company's Web site. It also carries some home furnishings, gifts and decor.

The retailer has been working on hiring a staff for the Tulsa store and conducted interviews this week for management positions, according to job postings on its Web site. Anthropologie officials did not return phone calls to the Tulsa World this week.

Harold's, an apparel retailer from Norman, closed its Utica Square store when the 60-year-old company filed for bankruptcy in 2008.

Tulsa World: Utica Square scores Anthropologie store (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=53&articleid=20100410_53_E1_Anthro572843)

rcjunkie
04-10-2010, 09:58 AM
Tulsa gets the first store---BFD, someone has to be first!!!!!!

Easy180
04-10-2010, 11:26 AM
Utica Square scores Anthropologie store

By KYLE ARNOLD World Staff

Anthropologie, an upscale women's retailer, is coming to Utica Square.

Officials of the shopping center have been working for months on the deal and received a signed lease Friday, said Jessica Judd, a property manager for Helmerich & Payne Inc., which owns the property.

"We're so excited about Anthropologie joining the Utica Square family," Judd said. "We can't convey how proud we are for them to have picked us."

The store will be located in a 7,500-square-foot space formerly occupied by Harold's, next to Pottery Barn. It is expected to open this fall.

The Utica Square location will be the first store in Oklahoma for Anthropologie, a subsidiary of Philadelphia-based Urban Outfitters Inc., which owns retailers Urban Outfitters and Free People.

Anthropologie sells clothing and accessories, catering to women 30 to 45, according to the company's Web site. It also carries some home furnishings, gifts and decor.

The retailer has been working on hiring a staff for the Tulsa store and conducted interviews this week for management positions, according to job postings on its Web site. Anthropologie officials did not return phone calls to the Tulsa World this week.

Harold's, an apparel retailer from Norman, closed its Utica Square store when the 60-year-old company filed for bankruptcy in 2008.

Tulsa World: Utica Square scores Anthropologie store (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=53&articleid=20100410_53_E1_Anthro572843)

Sounds like something my wife would like...Glad it is in Tulsa

Laramie
04-10-2010, 11:29 AM
Not really uncommon...seems Tulsa gets the stores first (for whatever reason) and then OKC a few years later

If it will work in Tulsa, then it should work in Oklahoma City. I'm still looking forward to Sak's Fifth Avenue coming. :kicking:

:welcome5:

onthestrip
04-10-2010, 01:07 PM
Saks Fifth Avenue is not coming to OKC

Its not a big deal Anthropologie opened in Tulsa first. They have a quality shopping center for it to locate. We, OKC, just dont have that many quality centers that are desirable for certain national retailers. Outside of Penn Square the options are limited for them.

okcpulse
04-10-2010, 01:22 PM
Saks Fifth Avenue is not coming to OKC

Its not a big deal Anthropologie opened in Tulsa first. They have a quality shopping center for it to locate. We, OKC, just dont have that many quality centers that are desirable for certain national retailers. Outside of Penn Square the options are limited for them.

How many other quality shopping centers are there in Tulsa? In OKC, you guys are forgetting about Tuscana, although I do admit it is not finished. Then there is Classen Curve, and University Towne Center in Norman, which is being built in phases.

What Penn needs to do is expand their retail space and build another parking garage, since it will involve tearing out a chunk of surface parking.

Old tricks are the best tricks.