View Full Version : Proposed Fire Dept budget cuts



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Mikemarsh51
02-11-2010, 05:11 PM
12% budget cuts from OKC fire Chief to to city council. Close fire stas. 3, 4, 11, 28. Rigs out of svc- E3, E4, E11, E28, E51, RL9, RL14, RL18, BP15, BP20, BP23, BP25, TK35, TK37. 141 total FF gone. Please pass this on to your friends and family in OKC. Call City Councilpersons

Midtowner
02-11-2010, 05:14 PM
MAPS 3 isn't even being collected yet. If MAPS3 monies could fix this problem, it could only be done through the issuance of bonds, which I believe is not even possible due to the way MAPS is structured. Anyhow, one thing has diddly squat to do with the other.

Again with the non sequitur.

You just won't quit with that BS, will you?

PLANSIT
02-11-2010, 05:17 PM
12% budget cuts from OKC fire Chief to to city council. Close fire stas. 3, 4, 11, 28. Rigs out of svc- E3, E4, E11, E28, E51, RL9, RL14, RL18, BP15, BP20, BP23, BP25, TK35, TK37. 141 total FF gone. MAPS3 was suppose to help these things. Please pass this on to your friends and family in OKC. Call City Councilpersons

It's 12% across the board. Every city department is cutting. Deal with it.

BTW, We haven't collected any money or built anything for MAPS3 yet.

bkm645
02-11-2010, 05:56 PM
Why don't we wait to cut jobs until the budget is passed for next year? I have a suspicion that the fire and police department will not get a full 12% cut from the budget. They will probably take some of the use tax from MAPS 3 like they already promised to do so they can pay for public safety.

Also, check out this article for what has actually happened so far: NewsOK (http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-budget-issues-prompt-city-to-cut-37-positions/article/3438425?custom_click=pod_headline_politics).

andy157
02-11-2010, 06:23 PM
Why don't we wait to cut jobs until the budget is passed for next year? I have a suspicion that the fire and police department will not get a full 12% cut from the budget. They will probably take some of the use tax from MAPS 3 like they already promised to do so they can pay for public safety.

Also, check out this article for what has actually happened so far: NewsOK (http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-budget-issues-prompt-city-to-cut-37-positions/article/3438425?custom_click=pod_headline_politics).It looks as though they are already spending M3 money to save F & P positions in the Mid-year budget cuts. Thats what the article says. Does it not? I don't know how that can be.

BigD Misey
02-11-2010, 06:50 PM
It looks as though they are already spending M3 money to save F & P positions in the Mid-year budget cuts. Thats what the article says. Does it not? I don't know how that can be.

Cool! I didn't realize maps 3 has a 17 mill contingency built in. Just went to City of Oklahoma City | Public Information & Marketing (http://www.okc.gov/maps3/summary.html) and looks like it is. If the city has any kind of shortfall it appearantly can use these funds for whatever they need to. I'd say that would classify. Hope this helps.

Wambo36
02-11-2010, 07:13 PM
MAPS 3 isn't even being collected yet. If MAPS3 monies could fix this problem, it could only be done through the issuance of bonds, which I believe is not even possible due to the way MAPS is structured. Anyhow, one thing has diddly squat to do with the other.

Again with the non sequitur.

You just won't quit with that BS, will you?

Unless I'm missing something, you're the first one to mention MAPS. Why would that be?

Mikemarsh51
02-11-2010, 07:26 PM
Big D Misey, that contingency fund is equal to the amount they are short on the practice arena, coincidence, I think not!

Wambo36
02-11-2010, 07:36 PM
Mike, unfortunately cuts that deep into coverage and manpower will drop our ISO rating and the first anyone will know about it is when their property insurance jumps. Hopefully the city will have answers for the citizens who will have to find a way to "deal with it" as Plansit so artfully puts it.

kevinpate
02-11-2010, 07:53 PM
It looks as though they are already spending M3 money to save F & P positions in the Mid-year budget cuts. Thats what the article says. Does it not? I don't know how that can be.

I think the article is incorrect andy. hard to spend funds which do not yet exist. Perhaps the existing use tax funds? Or, perhaps the council decided that it would use M3 use tax funds (which aren't actually M3 funds at all, but companion funds, once they come available. the funds will come available in the current FY, just not there yet.

Can't really tell from the article.

okcsmokeandfire
02-11-2010, 07:56 PM
Mike, unfortunately cuts that deep into coverage and manpower will drop our ISO rating and the first anyone will know about it is when their property insurance jumps. Hopefully the city will have answers for the citizens who will have to find a way to "deal with it" as Plansit so artfully puts it.

Its ironic, that you would mention property insurance, because several of the listed cuts are the only way some of these homeowners are getting insurance in the first place.

Ex.

TK-35 on the Southside, TK-37 on the Northside. Station 3 northside, Station 28 SE OKC, not to mention Station 4, which was being relocated to far NE OKC, but apparently not any more.

If you live in rural area that does not have any fire hydrants, those heavy tankers and stations are the only reason that you are getting reasonable property insurance rates.

If they go, good luck on getting insurance.

By the way, I am one of the tax paying citizens that will be directly affected by the increase of property insurance. I am sure you have sympathy. lol

I guess I will have to start digging up my coffee cans that are buried in the backyard. They are stuffed completely full with millions of dollars I have made over the last 20 years of being a firefighter. lol

Good luck

kevinpate
02-11-2010, 07:56 PM
Big D Misey, that contingency fund is equal to the amount they are short on the practice arena, coincidence, I think not!

Try thinking instead of thinking not. One is not related to the other.
While you have some decent arguments on other fronts, it might be better to not strip your credibility by dancing after an unrelated issue that's a non-starter.

kevinpate
02-11-2010, 07:58 PM
Why don't we wait to cut jobs until the budget is passed for next year? I have a suspicion that the fire and police department will not get a full 12% cut from the budget. They will probably take some of the use tax from MAPS 3 like they already promised to do so they can pay for public safety.

Also, check out this article for what has actually happened so far: NewsOK (http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-budget-issues-prompt-city-to-cut-37-positions/article/3438425?custom_click=pod_headline_politics).

As tot he 12% projected cuts, that is for the next budget. As for the current job cuts, which are not F & P, can't wait to address a this FY revenue shortfall because, well, it's happening in the current FY.

kevinpate
02-11-2010, 08:03 PM
FWIW, when a call goes out to make major cuts, the stated cuts are not always what would actually be cut. Sometimes, and I canna say yea or nay in this particular instance, worst case scenario presentations can help catch the right eyes or assist with creating the political will to avoid draconian cuts.

Until collections increase though, business as usual can not continue. Either revenue stream gets increased, or expenses get reduced, or a combination of the two.

Mikemarsh51
02-11-2010, 08:09 PM
Kevinpate, You have to be kidding. Those contingency funds of Maps3 are absolutely going to be used to finish Maps for the Ford center. They are currently somewhere over 12 million short. Or if it sounds better, when that tax collection ends on March 31st they are going to need over 12 million of that contingency money. I don't have a problem with it. I was only pointing out to Big D Misey that most of what he was refering to was spoken for.

Mikemarsh51
02-11-2010, 08:13 PM
We are hoping the ship will be righted by the new budget. A little birdy told me that sales tax collections for Jan 2010 are not near as bad, so we may be turning a corner.

kevinpate
02-11-2010, 08:18 PM
... Those contingency funds of Maps3 are absolutely going to be used to finish Maps for the Ford center. ...

From inferred coincidence to absolutely, and in nothing flat.
Oh well, it is after all your credibility to thrash as you elect.

As to your prognostic accuracy, I find it doubtful enough I simply can't hop on your racing little conspiracy wagon, but hey, who knows. Perhaps I'll be eating crow somewhere down the road. if so, I wonder if I could get the BoBo folks to smoke it up and then fry it for me. Baked crow would be just awful.

Wambo36
02-11-2010, 08:43 PM
By the way, I am one of the tax paying citizens that will be directly affected by the increase of property insurance. I am sure you have sympathy. lol

I guess I will have to start digging up my coffee cans that are buried in the backyard. They are stuffed completely full with millions of dollars I have made over the last 20 years of being a firefighter. lol

Good luck

I feel your pain. I live in 28's district. Funny thing is, if the wife hadn''t fallen in love with this spot and I could've talked her into building 1 mile further north, my homeowner insurance would already be between $800 to $1000 cheaper per year. Now, with these cuts, it's going to go up from there.

Where do you live okcfireandsmoke? I might have to come dig up one of your cans too.

LakeEffect
02-11-2010, 09:23 PM
We are hoping the ship will be righted by the new budget. A little birdy told me that sales tax collections for Jan 2010 are not near as bad, so we may be turning a corner.

Little birdie? It's at the end of a recent Council agenda. Sales tax was only down 12% from the same period last year... so the decrease is decreasing (if that makes sense).

The practice arena was actually much cheaper than anticipated. From what I've learned, the City is proposing a variety of cuts to the renovation package to make up for the overall shortfall in the sales tax collection for the Ford Center...

Midtowner
02-11-2010, 10:00 PM
Unless I'm missing something, you're the first one to mention MAPS. Why would that be?

He edited his post as soon as he realized how wrong it was... or something. The edit is as good as an admission of that.

See the original:


Originally Posted by Mikemarsh51
12% budget cuts from OKC fire Chief to to city council. Close fire stas. 3, 4, 11, 28. Rigs out of svc- E3, E4, E11, E28, E51, RL9, RL14, RL18, BP15, BP20, BP23, BP25, TK35, TK37. 141 total FF gone. MAPS3 was suppose to help these things. Please pass this on to your friends and family in OKC. Call City Councilpersons

Mikemarsh51
02-11-2010, 10:14 PM
Midtowner that was my bad, thanks for helping me get it right.

BigD Misey
02-11-2010, 10:53 PM
I'm sorry if i'm misreading it, but the article referenced above by kevinpate, quoting bkmb545, said in part:


Midyear budget cuts approved Tuesday by the Oklahoma City Council will mean 37 fewer jobs and reduced services, and will require the city to dip into its contingency funds.
-and-
All departments were asked to cut 2 percent from their budgets, although council members dipped into MAPS 3 use taxes to prevent layoffs for police and firefighters.

I may be reading that wrong, but isn't it saying the city dipped into the Contingency money collected off of taxes to prevent a higher percentage of cuts? :headscrat
Help me out here!

betts
02-12-2010, 12:59 AM
I'm not really sure why it's the city's duty to decrease people's property insurance. I actually think the city should be deannexing these rural areas. If people want to sprawl, let them do so outside of the city limits. I find it hard to believe that the property taxes being collected in underpopulated areas equals the cost of providing city services. I lived in Deer Creek for awhile, and we had to pay for fire protection out of our own pocket at the time. I figured it was the cost of choosing to live out in the boondocks. I got really tired of the drive, really quickly, and acreage is vastly overrated, IMO.

Wambo36
02-12-2010, 01:31 AM
I'm not really sure why it's the city's duty to decrease people's property insurance. I actually think the city should be deannexing these rural areas. If people want to sprawl, let them do so outside of the city limits. I find it hard to believe that the property taxes being collected in underpopulated areas equals the cost of providing city services. I lived in Deer Creek for awhile, and we had to pay for fire protection out of our own pocket at the time. I figured it was the cost of choosing to live out in the boondocks. I got really tired of the drive, really quickly, and acreage is vastly overrated, IMO.

Ah Betts, they're not decreasing them. They're working on increasing them. I'd be happy if they'd just leave them alone. A quick history lesson; the area I live in tried to deannex from OKC several years ago. They had one problem. The city of OKC fought them tooth and nail. Apparently they don't share your view on property taxes on us boondocks folks.

I see your point. If they're going to decrease our already thin coverage let us annex into a municipality willing to do better. Unfortunately that's not how our city leaders do things.

Maybe if your through getting our medical director straightened out you can pop on over to city hall and get this city limits thing straightened out. Oh by the way, it's not just the people in the rural areas that will be affected, the ISO rating is city wide. It will affect everyone if it comes to pass.

betts
02-12-2010, 01:45 AM
If it does, it does. If my insurance goes up, perhaps I'm saving somewhere else. I'm not through getting your medical director straightened out. I'm working on it, but I've got multiple irons in the fire, which is why I'm up at this time of night. I don't have time to play basketball,cook a lovely meal for my compatriots at work or buy banana splits for the group if the ball ends up on the roof, and I've got limited time to deal with your medical director. When I bump into him in the hallway at work, I'm going to get the conversation started.

I agree, you should be able to deannex, as long as that means the city has no obligations to the deannexed areas, and as long as they are on the outskirts. That's probably beyond my knowledge or capabilities to correct, however.

oneforone
02-12-2010, 01:52 AM
All I can say is that I am glad I live in Midwest City now. Home and Renters insurance rates are about to skyrocket in Midwest City.

They need to change the city's slogan to




Welcome to Oklahoma City


We're buying lots of new shiny things just to impress all you wonderful people who don't live here.

Just please be careful during your visit we tossed out all those uncessary things like fire trucks, police officers and ambulances.

rcjunkie
02-12-2010, 04:33 AM
The only problem is that when you deannex area, as soon as theres major problems (sewer lines, water lines, street repairs, mowing public properties, etc;), they most often go running back to the city begging for help.

rcjunkie
02-12-2010, 04:34 AM
All I can say is that I am glad I live in Midwest City now. Home and Renters insurance rates are about to skyrocket in Midwest City.

They need to change the city's slogan to

Sad, some will never give up.

Oh well, I'm off to Tenkiller, everyone be safe and have a Great Weekend!!

Larry OKC
02-12-2010, 05:53 AM
MAPS 3 isnít even being collected yet. If MAPS3 monies could fix this problem, it could only be done through the issuance of bonds, which I believe is not even possible due to the way MAPS is structured. Anyhow, one thing has diddly squat to do with the other.

Again with the non sequitur.

You just wonít quit with that BS, will you?

Bonds and other forms of indebtedness are authorized under MAPS 3:


Ordinance 23,942: ß 52-23.4. (d) (7) If deemed necessary or appropriate by the City Council for cash-flow purposes, for the payment of principal and interest on and the costs of issuance of bonds, notes, lines-of-credit, or other evidences of indebtedness issued by a public trust with the City as its beneficiary for the purpose of providing a City capital improvement.

As discussed at least a couple of times in other threads, there is nothing in the Ordinance tying it to the ďproposedĒ 8 MAPS 3 projects mentioned in the Councilís Resolution of Intent. As long as it fits into the very vague/generic/all encompasing definition of ďcapital improvementĒ, there doesnít seem to be any real limitation on what they can spend the money on.


It looks as though they are already spending M3 money to save F & P positions in the Mid-year budget cuts. Thats what the article says. Does it not? I donít know how that can be.

Earlier articles said that the Council was putting off the decision to use the MAPS 3 Use Tax, but this article does indicate that they did come to an agreement. Does anyone have another link that verifies this article?

As far as committing MAPS 3 Use Tax money, it may not have been spent yet (since it hasnít even started to be collected yet) but may just be an earmarking of it as soon as it does start (April 1). But then again, they may have borrowed the money and are going to pay it back with the Use Tax (they borrowed millions to start the Ford improvements months before a single penny had been collected).


Cool! I didnít realize maps 3 has a 17 mill contingency built in. Just went to City of Oklahoma City | Public Information & Marketing (http://www.okc.gov/maps3/summary.html) and looks like it is. If the city has any kind of shortfall it appearantly can use these funds for whatever they need to. Iíd say that would classify. Hope this helps.

Yes, it does have the $17M fund (was fairly widely reported when the projects were announced). However that is only 2.2% of the MAPS 3 budget and the City readily admits projects go an average of 8% over. Take into consideration, not a single MAPS project came in under budget and as a group, came in 47.75% over what voters were told right before the vote. Will the $17M be enough? Doubtful.


Big D Misey, that contingency fund is equal to the amount they are short on the practice arena, coincidence, I think not!

Actually the Practice Facility is UNDER budget (costing about half of what was originally earmarked for it in the Ford tax (3 months of the 15 months tax). Reportedly, the Ford improvements themselves are short about that amount though (donít have the exact amount handy). And as someone else pointed out, they are looking at the remainder of the Ford improvements to see where they can cut costs to make up for the shortfall.


Iím sorry if iím misreading it, but the article referenced above by kevinpate, quoting bkmb545, said in part:


Midyear budget cuts approved Tuesday by the Oklahoma City Council will mean 37 fewer jobs and reduced services, and will require the city to dip into its contingency funds.
-and-
All departments were asked to cut 2 percent from their budgets, although council members dipped into MAPS 3 use taxes to prevent layoffs for police and firefighters.

I may be reading that wrong, but isnít it saying the city dipped into the Contingency money collected off of taxes to prevent a higher percentage of cuts? :headscrat
Help me out here!

The City has various contingency funds they can pull from (not to be confused with the contingency amount set aside in MAPS 3). Also note that of the 37 positions cut, only one person is actually losing their job. The other positions are currently vacant (probably due to the hiring freeze that has been in effect).

Mikemarsh51
02-12-2010, 07:22 AM
Midtowner, yeah, what Larry OKC said!

Wambo36
02-12-2010, 08:04 AM
If it does, it does. If my insurance goes up, perhaps I'm saving somewhere else.
Let me know where your savings are coming from if you find any.

I agree, you should be able to deannex, as long as that means the city has no obligations to the deannexed areas, and as long as they are on the outskirts. That's probably beyond my knowledge or capabilities to correct, however.:bright_id

BigD Misey
02-12-2010, 08:07 AM
Understood!

Wambo36
02-12-2010, 08:14 AM
The only problem is that when you deannex area, as soon as theres major problems (sewer lines, water lines, street repairs, mowing public properties, etc;), they most often go running back to the city begging for help.

While I can see that happening, the area in question wanted to deannex because they had a commitment from another city to provide water lines, sewer lines, etc. if the city of OKC would allow them to deannex.

okcsmokeandfire
02-12-2010, 09:11 AM
All I can say is that I am glad I live in Midwest City now. Home and Renters insurance rates are about to skyrocket in Midwest City.

They need to change the city's slogan to

Be glad that you live in Midwest City. Your city had an ISO rating of a 1. That puts them in the top handful of cities in the United States. A 1 is the top. Your insurance rates should be just fine.

Thats exactly what the OKC slogan should read, lol. Good one.

okcsmokeandfire
02-12-2010, 09:15 AM
Be glad that you live in Midwest City. Your city had an ISO rating of a 1. That puts them in the top handful of cities in the United States. A 1 is the top. Your insurance rates should be just fine.

Thats exactly what the OKC slogan should read, lol. Good one.

refer to quote #26

okcsmokeandfire
02-12-2010, 09:40 AM
I'm not really sure why it's the city's duty to decrease people's property insurance. I actually think the city should be deannexing these rural areas. If people want to sprawl, let them do so outside of the city limits. I find it hard to believe that the property taxes being collected in underpopulated areas equals the cost of providing city services. I lived in Deer Creek for awhile, and we had to pay for fire protection out of our own pocket at the time. I figured it was the cost of choosing to live out in the boondocks. I got really tired of the drive, really quickly, and acreage is vastly overrated, IMO.


Instead of deannexing the rest of the city, why dont we deannex downtown OKC. You guys can have the mayor, the city manager and all the rest of his right hand men as well as city adm. You can call your city whatever you want.

Lets have a big contest to give your city a new name, The Metropolis, Gotham City, Big League City, anything but Oklahoma City, that will be our name.

You can manage your own tax revenue and priorities however that you choose.

We will take the rest of our city, including its employees and its tax revenue and run it how our citizens best see fit.

Oh yea, dont count anymore MAPs money from us. You guys and your new city will all be on your own. You can have MAPS, you will just be paying for it yourselves. Good Luck. Man that sounds like a hell of a plan.

I had better get to work on this....

After you line out our Medical Director, we need to sit down and come up with our new city boundary lines.

I was thinking Western to Eastern, from SE and SW 15th to NE and NW 23rd.
That will give you 2 or 3 fire stations, and a police station, if you think that you will need them, if not let me know I will take those guys and employ them in our city. Oh, by the way, there will be no mutual aid agreements, you either have fire and police services or you dont.

Think about it, gotta go for now,
The guys are getting hungry and are focused on the Jerry Springer show,
Gotta go, cook.

MGE1977
02-12-2010, 09:46 AM
OKCsmokeandfire

Rest assured, if BETTS is for us, who can be against us?

Surely our protocols will be changed by her fancy.

okcsmokeandfire
02-12-2010, 09:58 AM
Sorry, I stand corrected, the guys were watching old hockey game reruns on ESPN, they are so pumped about the upcoming hockey season. woo hoo.

Gotta go cut some taters...

Have a great day, everyone.

betts
02-12-2010, 12:51 PM
That's what I'm hearing from people who know. Remember who's paying your salary. People drive by the volleyball games, the truck washing and know firemen, their wives and friends. Anti-MAPS3 rhetoric and the economy loosened a few lips of ticked off citizens.

MGE1977
02-12-2010, 01:13 PM
I know this is tangental, but do "those who know" also know that it would be tough to find fireman playing volleyball before 1700hrs, or during a dedicated workout time (1.5 hrs/shift - negotiated) or on a weekend/holiday?

Playing volleyball is a relatively low impact sport with health bennies. Washing the rigs is essential to upkeep of equipment. I guess we should not cook and or eat at the station, and if we do (bought and payed for with our own money) I suppose we should eat gruel?

Why is it that loose lips only seem to hold season Thunder tickets (not the by-gawd "Loud City"variety either)?

I don't think we are begrudged the volleyball we play, nor the laps we run, the weights we lift, nor the cable we watch (after hours) because when we are called we show up as the best. What would you have your firefighters do?

ewoodard
02-12-2010, 01:40 PM
Oneforone, I too live in MWC and have not heard of our rates skyrocketing. Where did you get your info? Just curious.

Midtowner
02-12-2010, 03:08 PM
Wow.. some of you should quit your jobs. Really.

There are hundreds of folks who would be more than happy to take your place.

MGE1977
02-12-2010, 03:18 PM
Wow.. some of you should quit your jobs. Really.

There are hundreds of folks who would be more than happy to take your place.


And speaking of non sequitur....

Midtowner
02-12-2010, 03:22 PM
Premise: You feel like your job is too risky.
Premise: You feel like you are not valued.
Premise: You feel like your equipment is insufficient.
Conclusion: You should quit your job.

Perhaps you should go look up the definition of non sequitur.

MGE1977
02-12-2010, 03:35 PM
Premise: You feel like your job is too risky.
Premise: You feel like you are not valued.
Premise: You feel like your equipment is insufficient.
Conclusion: You should quit your job.

Perhaps you should go look up the definition of non sequitur.

0-JACKWEED LAWYER IN NOTIME!

Its impressive, but I wonder how you corner? I'll ride this one a bit further boys.

At no point have we claimed to be devalued. As a department we know our place in society, below the pompass, and right in the middle of the blue collars. Yet respectfully we serve them both.

Our job is in no way too risky, at least not suprisingly so, because we are all cut from the same cloth, and willing to risk. Lawyers are much more risky what with their fast cars and closet leather fetishes, to say nothing of eternal damnation just for choosing the career path.

Some of our equipment is defficient, this is proven rather scientifically by the manufacturer's specified testing.

But we still show up because we love the job. I'm assuming that you do as well because constantly you bring your lawyer to a people discussion.

Wambo36
02-12-2010, 04:46 PM
That's what I'm hearing from people who know. Remember who's paying your salary. People drive by the volleyball games, the truck washing and know firemen, their wives and friends. Anti-MAPS3 rhetoric and the economy loosened a few lips of ticked off citizens.

You might be suprised to know that you and your loose lipped friends aren't the only ones paying our salary.

Mikemarsh51
02-12-2010, 05:17 PM
Midtowner, ouch MGE got fangs! Are you a lawyer yet? You should be by age 30 right? That's OK, I'm finishing a degree at 45. Keep your chin up, you'll get there eventually. Or is that a non sequitur too?

MGE1977
02-12-2010, 05:50 PM
Midtowner, ouch MGE got fangs! Are you a lawyer yet? You should be by age 30 right? That's OK, I'm finishing a degree at 45. Keep your chin up, you'll get the eventually. Or is that a non sequitur too?

Mm,

As I see it, if it isn't written in Law jargon, it isn't in his realm of exprtise to understand. I think he's illegitimate, and maybe therefor cannot understand the words.

Whatever.

Midtowner
02-12-2010, 06:39 PM
Are you a lawyer yet?

Yes.

Mikemarsh51
02-12-2010, 08:25 PM
Midtowner, congrats! That's a new deal right?

Redskin 70
02-12-2010, 09:55 PM
Mike, unfortunately cuts that deep into coverage and manpower will drop our ISO rating and the first anyone will know about it is when their property insurance jumps. Hopefully the city will have answers for the citizens who will have to find a way to "deal with it" as Plansit so artfully puts it.

ISO? whats that and what does it mean?

Wambo36
02-12-2010, 10:10 PM
It's the rating system that insurance companies use to determine your municipalities insurance rates. The lower your rating, the lower your homeowners or other property insurance rates.

Right now OKC has a 3 rating, but that is based on the coverage and manpower currently on board. If those decrease significantly and your response times, manpower on scene, rigs responding etc. go with them, then they re-evaluate your ISO rating. If it goes up so does your property insurance rates.

As an example, MWC has an ISO rating of 1. If my house was in the city limits of MWC instead of OKC my homeowners insurance rates would be $800-$1000 less per year.

Redskin 70
02-13-2010, 03:24 PM
So my house In OKC of which I pay $1235 per year full coverage, if it was in MWC I would only pay $235 full coverage? Not trying to be argumentative just trying to understand how this ISO thing works......A quick phone call to my home insurance provider, when presented with this scenario said my Insurance from the 3 to the 1 would only lower my premium less than $100 per year. Is he wrong?

OKCity has a rating of 3 and MWC has a rating of 1.

Now from doing some research on the net I see that MWCity is the only ISO rating of 1 in the entire state of Oklahoma and that Texas has a completely different rating system than Oklahoma.

What are all the factors that go into this ISO rating, how difficult are they to achieve and why haven't more Oklahoma Cities tried to meet this rating system......

Are the standards so impossible to meet that most simply cant.

I dont get it.

Wambo36
02-13-2010, 04:41 PM
We built our house 3 years ago amd my insurance man is an old high school friend and someone I'ver been close friends with for over 30 years so I trust him. He kept asking me if I was sure that we didn't live in MWC because of the savings on our premiums. Those were the numbers he quoted and I checked his quote against our old insurance carrier and his was lower. That's as far as I went into it because I had no intention of moving again.

As far as getting a better ISO rating in OKC, it's not likely we will ever be better than a 3 unless they change the requirements. A city our size could never meet the response times required to get to a 1 without putting in a significant number of fire stations. Not feasible at this time. This one requirement alone would keep us from getting there. There are numerous requirements from the types of rigs you have making each call to the training level of the people on those rigs. OKCFD meets alot of those but several, like the response time one, we probably won't ever meet. At least not in my life time. Therefore we will probably not get any better than a 3.

What I was saying in my earlier post is that we could very easily get a worse one if we start closing down stations and making the response times longer than they are now. Or lower the number of FF's who show up on scene. Those are things that would affect it.

On edit: Wife just informed me the difference was going to be between $600 and $800 roughly, according to deductibles and coverages. Not as much but still substantial.

Redskin 70
02-13-2010, 06:51 PM
We built our house 3 years ago amd my insurance man is an old high school friend and someone I'ver been close friends with for over 30 years so I trust him. He kept asking me if I was sure that we didn't live in MWC because of the savings on our premiums. Those were the numbers he quoted and I checked his quote against our old insurance carrier and his was lower. That's as far as I went into it because I had no intention of moving again.

As far as getting a better ISO rating in OKC, it's not likely we will ever be better than a 3 unless they change the requirements. A city our size could never meet the response times required to get to a 1 without putting in a significant number of fire stations. Not feasible at this time. This one requirement alone would keep us from getting there. There are numerous requirements from the types of rigs you have making each call to the training level of the people on those rigs. OKCFD meets alot of those but several, like the response time one, we probably won't ever meet. At least not in my life time. Therefore we will probably not get any better than a 3.

What I was saying in my earlier post is that we could very easily get a worse one if we start closing down stations and making the response times longer than they are now. Or lower the number of FF's who show up on scene. Those are things that would affect it.

On edit: Wife just informed me the difference was going to be between $600 and $800 roughly, according to deductibles and coverages. Not as much but still substantial.
Thank you, thats good info to know. Helps clear up some of my confusion.

Wambo36
02-13-2010, 07:08 PM
No problem. The thing is, I grew up in MWC and have several friends on their FD. In our discussions about their rating we agreed that OKCs biggest obstacle would be the response time issue. They have 5 stations placed strategically around their city and you're never more than a few minutes away from help. The other requirements that we don't currently meet, and I don't remember all of them, were at least remotely possible for us to reach.

My biggest concern is that we don't start going backwards.

Mikemarsh51
02-15-2010, 08:40 AM
Midtowner, how long have you been a lawyer?

Midtowner
02-15-2010, 07:02 PM
I was born that way.

Explain to me how that's relevant to anything in this thread or see what you can dig up with the search function.

Redskin 70
02-15-2010, 10:43 PM
I was born that way.

Explain to me how that's relevant to anything in this thread or see what you can dig up with the search function.

Great answer to a mortal enemy.
:whiteflag

Mikemarsh51
02-16-2010, 08:52 AM
I think it goes to your credibilty, last July you stated you could not give legal advice, now your a lawyer. If you've passed the bar, congrats! If not, are you to be considered trustworthy?