washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/24/AR2010012402503.html)

"When I have grazed upon NBA-TV on occasion, I've stumbled on an Oklahoma City Thunder game. I don't even know where Oklahoma City is -- I assume it's in Oklahoma; maybe Kansas -- and can't imagine anyone playing basketball in Oklahoma City.

But, boy oh boy, does this Kevin Durant got game. He's averaging 29.3 points (third in the league) and 7.3 rebounds. He is very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very smooth. I suspect he's already among the NBA's top 10 players -- maybe even in the top five -- and one day the 6-foot-9 forward could be the best in the league.

By the way, since when does the NBA have a team in Oklahoma City? I thought only the NHL did stuff like that. ".

Norman Chad of the Washington Post had a few choice words to say about OKC's location, and he can't imagine anyone playing basketball in OKC.

And this, along with Chris Ballard of Sports Illustrated, is supposed to be considered professional journalism? Does someone need to lay out the ground rules for journalists? First, know your geography, even if you think a state or region doesn't matter to you. It's called intelligence, someone America seriously lacks. Second, when you become a journalist, you automatically forfeit your right to a personal opinion when you are writing a piece. Check your personal opinions at the door an save it for your colleagues during your lunch hour.

And one more thing, people. This isn't about an inferiority complex. It's about being intelligent, plain and simple. If you don't want to be professional at journalism, then turn in your resignation letter and start a blog in your mother's basement.

washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/24/AR2010012402503.html)

"".

It's called intelligence, someone America seriously lacks. Second, when you become a journalist, you automatically forfeit your right to a personal opinion when you are writing a piece. Check your personal opinions at the door an save it for your colleagues during your lunch hour.

And one more thing, people. This isn't about an inferiority complex. It's about being intelligent, plain and simple. If you don't want to be professional at journalism, then turn in your resignation letter and start a blog in your mother's basement.

He's a commentator, not a "journalist". He wasn't reporting on a game. It's like an editorial I guess. Doesn't make it any easier to stomach, but he's not simply reporting what happened in a game.

"This isn't about an inferiority complex."

No, this has inferiority complex written all over it. Writer was looking for attention, and--guess what?--you gave it to him.

We're a "big league city" now, right? Time to put on our big boy pants and start acting like it. That means not freaking out about silly little articles like this one.

Norman who?
LOL, I guess he's the real Norman Nobody.

"This isn't about an inferiority complex."

No, this has inferiority complex written all over it. Writer was looking for attention, and--guess what?--you gave it to him.

We're a "big league city" now, right? Time to put on our big boy pants and start acting like it. That means not freaking out about silly little articles like this one.

So you're telling me that when your boss is telling you that you should do a better job, he/she has an inferiority complex?

I could care less what he thinks about Oklahoma City. But entertaining the notion that not knowing where OKC is silly from a full-grown adult's standpoint.

okcpulse - I agree. I don't know when someone decided "I am so stupid so listen to my deep thoughts on basketball" mentality took hold but it doesn't make good journalism or commentary. It just makes the author look stupid.

You know, when I first saw that title, I was worried that maybe we had been left out of another almanac or road atlas or something. You know, something real, something that actually matters.

So probably a surprising number of people can't correctly name the county they live in.

I always ask the question: Why does the NBA have teams in Atlanta, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, or Memphis? And second, who would want to live in those craphole towns?

I think some of you all just like to find people who hate or are ignorant about OKC so you have something to complain about.

I think some of you all just like to find people who hate or are ignorant about OKC so you have something to complain about.

It isn't like the Washington Post and Sports Illustrated are some obscure blogs no one has ever heard of.

"This isn't about an inferiority complex."

No, this has inferiority complex written all over it. Writer was looking for attention, and--guess what?--you gave it to him.

We're a "big league city" now, right? Time to put on our big boy pants and start acting like it. That means not freaking out about silly little articles like this one.

This.

Why does the NBA have teams in Atlanta, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, or Memphis? And second, who would want to live in those craphole towns?

I don't think those places are crap hole towns... except maybe New Jersey... if it were a town.

Most people are ignorant about Oklahoma City. Well, I hope they know where it is. It is a state capitol after all and I think you still have to learn those (then again, maybe it's not on the standardized test for funding, so maybe schools have cut it, too). Most people haven't been here and it doesn't have much of an identity. And, really, it does have a long way to go before it offers what many cities offer, especially those in major league sports markets. But, hey, we're both the new guy and the little guy. We're going to get hazed for awhile.

At the end of the day, we have a good NBA team with one of the best players in the league. If we continue to support the team and they continue to get better, comments like these will begin to look petty in addition to ignorant. The best part about the country's ignorance about us is that we have a chance to surprise them and show them it's not like they think. Of course, we also have to continue to work past many of the issues that hindered the city's growth and profile for 60 years.

I think some of you all just like to find people who hate or are ignorant about OKC so you have something to complain about.

Let me emphasize, this isn't about people hating OKC. They can hate it if they want.

They are journalists, and any journalist who pulls these stunts by either making up their own facts or show ignorance to geography are not professional journalists.

It isn't just OKC, it's 'flyover country' in general. Reporters are getting into a bad habit of sending a message that it's okay to half-ass American geography by only learning about the states that are deemed worthy. It's bad in the education system. If you grow up with taking that kind of knowledge into the workforce, it can yield some unwarranted issues.

I don't think those places are crap hole towns... except maybe New Jersey... if it were a town.

Most people are ignorant about Oklahoma City. Well, I hope they know where it is. It is a state capitol after all and I think you still have to learn those (then again, maybe it's not on the standardized test for funding, so maybe schools have cut it, too). Most people haven't been here and it doesn't have much of an identity. And, really, it does have a long way to go before it offers what many cities offer, especially those in major league sports markets. But, hey, we're both the new guy and the little guy. We're going to get hazed for awhile.

At the end of the day, we have a good NBA team with one of the best players in the league. If we continue to support the team and they continue to get better, comments like these will begin to look petty in addition to ignorant. The best part about the country's ignorance about us is that we have a chance to surprise them and show them it's not like they think. Of course, we also have to continue to work past many of the issues that hindered the city's growth and profile for 60 years.

Well said. I certainly agree. I just don't want my kids growing up swearing there are 57 states because their teacher said so.

I always ask the question: Why does the NBA have teams in Atlanta, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Milwaukee, or Memphis? And second, who would want to live in those craphole towns?

New Jersey is a "town?" Jesus, looks like the Post writer isn't the only one who's a little rusty on their elementary school geography.

At least public perception of these "craphole" cities (and state) you referenced aren't so low as to elicit this kind of press...

In the summer of 1980 a friend and I were traveling around the country and spent several weeks staying with his aunt and uncle who lived on Cape Cod. One night we were watching the movie "The last picture show". The movie is done in black and white and the town that it's set in has dirt streets with tumbleweeds blowing down them. His aunt turned to us and said that when she hears the words Oklahoma City this is what she envisions. His uncle and cousins were the same way. These people where educated at some very prestigious east coast universities and still had no realistic ideas of our state. It appears they weren't in the minority.

So probably a surprising number of people can't correctly name the county they live in.
It's not just pertaining to Oklahoma or Oklahoma City. I get on my 10th grade grandson all the time for not having a clue about US geography, e.g., "From where we are, which direction is Minnesota? On which coast is Oregon?" I guess that schools don't teach about stuff like that anymore. I'd be amazed if he could list 5 state capitals but he is generally an A & B student. Go figure.

In my experience even the negative press and the cheap shots taken at our expense, will eventually help the cause of OKC. With many people negative press as well as positive can cause them to wonder why it was such a big deal for the author to have spent their time writing it and begin to wonder. This often leads people to do a search to see what the fuss is all about. If OKC is nothing worth considering why did it draw the attention of the author? Today we know that what is provided by many “journalists” must be qualified and so to it is all too easy to jump on a computer and start searching.

This presents a golden opportunity for OKC to roll out the welcome mat and begin making sure that the public face of OKC is represented effectively with well chosen and flattering images of beautiful Oklahoma City. Web sites such as the OKC Chamber of Commerce, The Oklahoma State website, Dept. Of Tourism, even the City Planning dept., and any other agency that regular folk as well as business execs may look as a resource for gathering information on OKC as a possibility for relocation to.

The growing trend of more of these types of articles coming out is inevitable and probably a great sign! Case in point: due to the success of OKC Thunder, the rest of the Sports writers and as a result other journalists will be forced to write about an area that they have never have had to consider and frankly know nothing about. So they resort to the lowest form of wit and write snide and sarcastic op Eds articles that may cast the city in a poor light. That only goes so far, later they are the ones who look ignorant and unintelligent as the rest of the country sees what we already know about this awesome emerging city. That there is a lot to be proud of here and it just keeps getting better! Personally my prediction is for us to look for an increase in this type of "negative" article and then a sudden shift to more positive yet surprised sounding articles that begin showcasing OKC.

Meanwhile as Devon tower begins to emerge from the ground, more attention will be drawn to OKC, and when the reporters have to dig into what is going on in OKC they will discover the developments beginning to take shape based on the recently passed MAPS III initiative and those articles will be noticed by those top execs who are looking for a great place to locate or relocate their businesses. OKC is here to stay and it has its welcome mat securely rolled out for business.

Remember what happened to Connie Chung's career after her sound journalism after the Murrah bombing..........re: Connie Chunk thread.

I think you guys have to remember too that "professional journalism" just isn't in demand. Look at how many people get their news from cable news channels. These are outfits that fight in the courts (and win) for their right to lie. Yes, they have this right, I guess, but it isn't the issue. They don't defend their information, they defend their right to make it up.

The line between commentary and journalism is basically gone. It is very rare to read or watch ANY news without opinion being injected. And I'm not talking about subtle biases. I'm talking about bold face, calculated commentary aimed at target demographics to sustain ratings.

People WANT opinion and they choose it over objective reporting. They WANT to be told what to think, whether it's about a place they've never been to or what the implications are of potential legislation. They want the news to validate their convictions. They don't want any verified and researched information getting in the way of what they already believe to be true.

People no longer say they want news to be objective and accurate. They want it to be "fair" or "balanced", which basically means they want the news to represent their views even if it means making something up to ensure a particular viewpoint is represented whether it is founded or not. There isn't even an attempt to appear "journalistic" anymore. News is sold today on the premise that it will present you with information that will agree with your predefined idea of what is right and wrong, not with accurate and accountable information that will ensure you are accurately informed of the realities that make up the world in which you live.

In the summer of 1980 a friend and I were traveling around the country and spent several weeks staying with his aunt and uncle who lived on Cape Cod. One night we were watching the movie "The last picture show". The movie is done in black and white and the town that it's set in has dirt streets with tumbleweeds blowing down them. His aunt turned to us and said that when she hears the words Oklahoma City this is what she envisions. His uncle and cousins were the same way. These people where educated at some very prestigious east coast universities and still had no realistic ideas of our state. It appears they weren't in the minority.
When my parents told me we were moving to OKC, I immediately pictured the dust bowl and The Grapes of Wrath. But I was only 10 at the time and had never been here. I guess people just assume things never change. I once had an aunt ask me (years ago) if I ever see any Indians or teepees. LOL

I guess people just assume things never change. I once had an aunt ask me (years ago) if I ever see any Indians or teepees. LOL

Well I didn't mention it but his relatives asked the same questions about the Indians. It was an eye opening experience for me. I couldn't believe educated people could be so misinformed. The funny thing is that some of their kids came down to visit and never went back. They loved it here and went to college and ended up staying here and starting families. Needless to say they've been more fully educated about Oklahoma since our first meeting.

Well I didn't mention it but his relatives asked the same questions about the Indians. The funny thing is that some of their kids came down to visit and never went back. They loved it here and went to college and ended up staying here and starting families. Needless to say they've been more fully educated about Oklahoma since our first meeting.

This is the story that is repeated over and over...Oklahoma City is the best kept secret of America in plain view...right out there in the open for anyone to see if they will. Those stereotypes can be powerful influences that span generations without reason other than one persons perceptions being propgated on to the next generations. It takes a proper introduction that then peaks the curiousity and whammo you have another resident! I know this is somewhat over simplified but I hear the same stories over and over! OKC is creating its own momentum we just need to keep our eyes on where it is going on its journey so that we can avoid the potholes!

It's not just pertaining to Oklahoma or Oklahoma City. I get on my 10th grade grandson all the time for not having a clue about US geography, e.g., "From where we are, which direction is Minnesota? On which coast is Oregon?" I guess that schools don't teach about stuff like that anymore. I'd be amazed if he could list 5 state capitals but he is generally an A & B student. Go figure.

Grandson would know this stuff if he grew up where I did in SE Oklahoma. Our teachers were fun, but largely no nonsense, teachers. My spouse recently enjoyed her [mumble mumble sumthin way way way beyond 10th] reunion.

Amongst the teachers of the day who were still about and came to see the former students was Jim Anderson, who taught geography. He showed up, alive and kicking and looking rather excellent, considering we're a fair bit older now than he was back in the day.

Learned a whole lot about what was where from Mr. A. Good man.

I see Indians all the time, but by and large the only time I see a tipi is at a Scouting event, (excluding the ones that are, or used to be, at Roman Nose. Those are easy to exclude, cause a tipi with a wood floor and electricity ain't really a tipi.

When my parents told me we were moving to OKC, I immediately pictured the dust bowl and The Grapes of Wrath. But I was only 10 at the time and had never been here. I guess people just assume things never change. I once had an aunt ask me (years ago) if I ever see any Indians or teepees. LOL

I'm impressed that at 10 you knew what the dust bowl and The Grapes of Wrath were. I doubt that many at that age would know today. As for seeing Indians, I see Indians almost every day. We have a large Indian population here, just not wearing bead or feathers. I would have to hunt for teepees though

There is no geographic ignorance in the incident noted by the original poster. It's just a blithe, throwaway statement by a sports reporter. At the root of his statement is the fact that Oklahoma, like it or not, is totally disregardable (my own word) by the majority of the US. Along the lines of, say, Iowa. He would make the same type of assertion if Jason Kidd were to play for the Ottumwa Ocelots. It's not elitism.

At the root of his statement is the fact that Oklahoma, like it or not, is totally disregardable (my own word) by the majority of the US. Along the lines of, say, Iowa. He would make the same type of assertion if Jason Kidd were to play for the Ottumwa Ocelots. It's not elitism.

Dude, that is practically the definition of elitism.

Dude, that is practically the definition of elitism.

no, it's the definition of reality.

no, it's the definition of reality.

Thank you.

no, it's the definition of reality.

It's elitism and reality. So this time I will pose it to you as a legitimate question instead of a joke. Do you or do you not want to see Oklahoma change for the better?

It's elitism that is the reality. So this time I will pose it to you as a legitimate question instead of a joke. Do you or do you not want to see Oklahoma change for the better?

Sure I do, but I know it won't. At least not anytime soon.
That's why I'm leaving when I graduate.

Sure I do, but I know it won't. At least not anytime soon.
That's why I'm leaving when I graduate.

How do you think it won't? I mean, honestly OKC is better than it was 10 or even 12 years ago. That doesn't mean we've reached the pinnacle.

I want to make a difference for OKC for the better, and I am gonna do it. I don't care about what other people think I should do.

How do you think it won't? I mean, honestly OKC is better than it was 10 or even 12 years ago. That doesn't mean we've reached the pinnacle.

I want to make a difference for OKC for the better, and I am gonna do it. I don't care about what other people think I should do.

I don't think it won't get better, I know it won't get better. I have faith in the inability of the average OKC resident and the average OKC leader to recognize what needs to be done in this city in order to attract young professionals who aren't in the oil industry. I have faith that this city won't be able to encourage businesses to relocate here or to start up here. I have faith that this city will screw up and run off anything that does happen to start up here.

Parts of OKC have gotten better in the past 10-12 years. Small parts. The rest of the city has gone to sh!t. Look at bricktown. It's getting more and more stagnant every year, and the new places it's attracting are laughable and just give an even worse impression of the city to outsiders.

Banjo museum? Coyote Ugly? horrendous.

I don't think it won't get better, I know it won't get better. I have faith in the inability of the average OKC resident and the average OKC leader to recognize what needs to be done in this city in order to attract young professionals who aren't in the oil industry. I have faith that this city won't be able to encourage businesses to relocate here or to start up here. I have faith that this city will screw up and run off anything that does happen to start up here.

Parts of OKC have gotten better in the past 10-12 years. Small parts. The rest of the city has gone to sh!t. Look at bricktown. It's getting more and more stagnant every year, and the new places it's attracting are laughable and just give an even worse impression of the city to outsiders.

Banjo museum? Coyote Ugly? horrendous.

You and this thread are very depressing.. Please do leave whenever you graduate.. You are exactly what this city doesn't need.

How do you think it won't? I mean, honestly OKC is better than it was 10 or even 12 years ago. That doesn't mean we've reached the pinnacle.

I want to make a difference for OKC for the better, and I am gonna do it. I don't care about what other people think I should do. OKC, I admire your desire and tenacity in wanting to make OKC a better place. When you return, are you plan on running for mayor? State Office? Working for the OKC Chamber of Commerce? I think you would be a great "pitch' for the city and would make a good "cheerleader" for OKC! However, with FF Burger, I do also have to admire him for speaking his opinion that OKC will not be changing in the near future. OKC has made strides and has improved immensely, however it has a very long way in becoming a true urban, big league city. It still does not offer the big ammenities that other cities have to offer such as upscale shops, more "diverse" dining options besides Tex- Mex and Steakhouses. When I lived in OKC, I found "generally" the people did not get excited about new things. They liked to go out to eat and to a movie, but that was the extent of it. Just my perception. The arts are supported in OKC, but only by a select few. No opera house, no contemporary art museums compared to cities in the region. I always say, what makes a city is it's citizens. If OKC people want a vibrant city then I believe they will find a way to achieve their goal, however, if they only want a average city then that is what the citizens of OKC will get. I remember when living in Oklahoma even the license plates stated "Oklahoma is ok". Just ok?? The choice is yours to make!

I don't think it won't get better, I know it won't get better. I have faith in the inability of the average OKC resident and the average OKC leader to recognize what needs to be done in this city in order to attract young professionals who aren't in the oil industry. I have faith that this city won't be able to encourage businesses to relocate here or to start up here. I have faith that this city will screw up and run off anything that does happen to start up here.

Parts of OKC have gotten better in the past 10-12 years. Small parts. The rest of the city has gone to sh!t. Look at bricktown. It's getting more and more stagnant every year, and the new places it's attracting are laughable and just give an even worse impression of the city to outsiders.

Banjo museum? Coyote Ugly? horrendous.

Ok this post has shown that you have an inability to recognize progress when you see it for your self. It is fairly evident due to your lack of faith in those who have pulled off a tremendous turnaround for the city. So much so that some of the large cities that many seem to want to emulate such as Dallas among others have been inquiring as to the success Oklahoma City has experienced. After the undisputed unique successes of The MAPS programs where those very citizens were required to take out real dollars from their wallets to make not just one but three of them come to fruition, leading to the attraction of a NBA Franchise relocating and Olympic training sites with an increase in tourism and world renowned athletes now making OKC a regular stop. You have discredited your opinion as based on any substantive claim.

I understand that you are experiencing what some 18-20 year olds go through when they are not satisfied when thier every whim is not catered to. I recommend that you take a study abroad course or do something that will broaden your horizons and if not please do move to other cities because you will find that you can find what ever it is that you are looking for in any of them. You can also find plenty of things to complain about in any of them. If you can't be happy here you shouldn't stay and we don't want you to. Please understand that in saying this I am not trying to push you out the door, I am simply saying that we are not trying to convince those who are determined to leave to stay if it makes them unhappy. It is a free country and by all means go explore it! Just don't besmirch or belittle the significant efforts that have made this state a great place. Efforts made on a grass roots level that each of the citizens have paid for with their own money, investing in themselves with profound and growing sucess that has created its own momentum and led to substantial private investment in response!

Good luck in the future! Oklahoma will always be the place that gave you your education and opened the door for you in other cities. Remember that.

You and this thread are very depressing.. Please do leave whenever you graduate.. You are exactly what this city doesn't need.

I agree.
I'm not sure where fredburger plans on moving to, but if it's that bad here in OKC, why wait, I'm sure they have schools he could transfer to.

I'm more tolerant of people that make remarks/comments about OKC even though thay have never been here, then I am about people that live here and are always negative.

Banjo museum? Coyote Ugly? horrendous.

Elitism alert!

Elitism alert!

Elitism? You people bitch about how outsiders percieve Oklahoma, then put the the most "hick" thing I can think of in bricktown. It's a banjo museum, yeah that's "big league"

Have you been inside of coyote ugly recently? It's worse than a day-time strip bar, the "talent", I mean.

I agree.
I'm not sure where fredburger plans on moving to, but if it's that bad here in OKC, why wait, I'm sure they have schools he could transfer to.

I'm more tolerant of people that make remarks/comments about OKC even though thay have never been here, then I am about people that live here and are always negative.

It also irks the hell outta me when the top 3 threads on this board are this one, the "NBA thinks okc is boring" one and the one about the dumb reporter who didn't even know we were a state. We are so fixated on our image as a city it's disgusting!! It's like ever since maps III passed, we've been worrying about what other people think.. GGGRRR!! Diggy ANGRY!!

If OKC people want a vibrant city then I believe they will find a way to achieve their goal, however, if they only want a average city then that is what the citizens of OKC will get. I remember when living in Oklahoma even the license plates stated "Oklahoma is ok". Just ok?? The choice is yours to make!

So was the public mindset to build a below-average city when lower Bricktown was developed? I think not--there were grand visions of high-rises encroaching right up to the canal and well-publicized renderings of a dense, vibrant urban area. The end result, though, has been a lackluster entertainment district that feels less urban and has fewer options than suburban cookie-cutter "lifestyle center" developments in other cities OKC's size (and anchored by, of all things, a supersized Bass Pro box store). It's hard to have a truly positive outlook on things like Core to Shore when the ball was dropped so badly with lower Bricktown despite having a clean slate to do something great. I don't blame fredfredburger for the negativity and lack of faith.

This writer is just trying to be funny. "Oh, ho ho, look at me, this town is so far out in the middle of nowhere that I don't know where it is". It's like people who would make jokes that they didn't know how to program a VCR, or today that they can't figure out their computer. It's an attempt to appeal to the common man by appearing ignorant on subjects they consider unimportant. "Why would I know where Oklahoma City is?"

I lived in DC for a few years. Someone asked me about indians. Since I'm, well, I'm kind of a dick, I made a big production out of it and said that we would drive our cars around in a circle, like a wagon train, on the freeway, and would hope their arrows wouldn't crack our windshields. Then he felt stupid. And I laughed at him. This was in front of like ten people.

The appropriate response to this sort of joke is not to get mad. It's to mock the person making the joke. "You don't know where Oklahoma City is? It's there. On the map. In Oklahoma. You know, just like in the name. That's why they call it that."

Don't get upset over what some hack sportswriter says. They are just trying to be comedians. They just aren't very good at it.

I don't think it won't get better, I know it won't get better. I have faith in the inability of the average OKC resident and the average OKC leader to recognize what needs to be done in this city in order to attract young professionals who aren't in the oil industry. I have faith that this city won't be able to encourage businesses to relocate here or to start up here. I have faith that this city will screw up and run off anything that does happen to start up here.

Parts of OKC have gotten better in the past 10-12 years. Small parts. The rest of the city has gone to sh!t. Look at bricktown. It's getting more and more stagnant every year, and the new places it's attracting are laughable and just give an even worse impression of the city to outsiders.

Banjo museum? Coyote Ugly? horrendous.

Dude, if you're still in school, then you really don't remember what this city was like before. I invite you to leave, move to another city. See what the world has to offer. Nobody can criticize you for wanting to experience life outside of OKC. I did. I moved to the east coast for several years. So go ahead and leave. I sincerely hope you enjoy yourself.

But don't think that you've got some deep understanding of the Oklahoma City area, some special insight, simply because you're a snarky 20 year old. I was the same way when I was a college student. I remember it well. I've been there, done that. And then I have a decade-plus of life experience beyond that. New information has caused me to rethink my previous position.

You have been lucky in that you've grown up in a city that has been working constantly to improve itself. The first MAPS passed when you were what, four years old? You don't remember Bricktown before. And you have no conception of the problems of urban blight and decay that have been plaguing every city for years now.

So go out and enjoy yourself. See the world. Because right now, you just sound like Dorothy singing Somewhere Over the Rainbow. "Everything sucks here, I wanna leave." Every city, every place on Earth, has problems. You've just got to decide if you can stand the problems in your chosen locale, or if you can't.

Elitism? You people bitch about how outsiders percieve Oklahoma, then put the the most "hick" thing I can think of in bricktown. It's a banjo museum, yeah that's "big league"

Have you been inside of coyote ugly recently? It's worse than a day-time strip bar, the "talent", I mean.

There's the problem, your spending your time in strip bars instead of visiting local museums or other places of interest.

There's the problem, your spending your time in strip bars instead of visiting local museums or other places of interest.

A strip bar is of interest to me. If you really think a museum is a place of interest for 18-25 year olds, then you're part of the problem.

A strip bar is of interest to me. If you really think a museum is a place of interest for 18-25 year olds, then you're part of the problem.

I hear Swedish women are drop dead gorgeous. I bet the strip clubs there are nice.. You should move there..

Sounds to me that fred will bitch about anything and anyplace.

I don't understand how we could go unrecognized especially after the bombing in 1995. Although it was very unfortunate and should have never happened it earned International and National attention. I was in 2nd grade and remember it very well. I'm in the army and know guys from all over the United States and they all remember it as well. It's discouraging to think that everyone just forgot ya know. We'll be alright though. I'm not worried about that. Just continue to shrug it off and improve.

Sounds to me that fred will bitch about anything and anyplace.

And that, my friend, is the definition of a troll.

A strip bar is of interest to me. If you really think a museum is a place of interest for 18-25 year olds, then you're part of the problem.

Dont begin to think you are representative of all 18 - 25 year olds. When I was your age besides being interested in strip bars, I was fascinated by museums. I knew there was a life if the past that we could learn from and appreciate. That comes from a little education which will come to you in time. I'm not really sure why you bother to post here. You seem to enjoy complaining but don't seem to be offering to do anything yourself to improve things except leave and that probably would improve Oklahoma City.

I remember the summer I turned 21 taking a road trip to the East Coast to visit fraternity brothers and besides visiting the bars had a fantastic time seeing the museums in New York City and Washington.

You seem to enjoy complaining but don't seem to be offering to do anything yourself to improve things except leave and that probably would improve Oklahoma City.

Actually, I did.

I did and I was told my ideas are stupid and that I should shut up and diaf.

Don't worry, I will be leaving.

Actually, I did.

I did and I was told my ideas are stupid and that I should shut up and diaf.

Don't worry, I will be leaving.

Giving ideas is great, Fred, and you shouldn't stop doing that. But you instead of running everything down you need to find some way you can personally help to improve things.

Actually, I did.

I did and I was told my ideas are stupid and that I should shut up and diaf.

Don't worry, I will be leaving.

Giving ideas is great, Fred, and you shouldn't stop doing that. But instead of running everything down you need to find some way you can personally help to improve things.

Fred, I live in Seattle - and while things do LOOK better when you move to a different city, you will shortly realize how good OKC actually is.

OKC has a lot going against it, no mountains or ocean geographical features, no significant forest or other scenic features. OKC is inbetween everything, the start of the forest, the start of the grassland.

YET, there is NO way you could say with a straight face that OKC hasn't improved within the last 15 years. And you certainly could not base that off girls at strip bars. Come to Seattle and see how "lovely" our girls are up here. ... (im saying that with sarcasm. ...).

While I will agree, that OKC really DOES NEED TO START focusing on young adults and getting big city amenities that appeal to 16-25 year olds - I do agree. But OKC is not some terrible city, because once you grow out of partying you realize that OKC actually is quite a very good city and certainly is much better than when I was your age (almost 20 years ago).

Fred, I hear some of your concerns and somewhat agree that OKC shouldn't ONLY focus on families or seniors, but should do things for the young adults since you are the immediate future. But I can definitely say that if I were your age in present day OKC, there isn't really that much difference between OKC or other tier II cities.

Maybe you do need to move to New York or Chicago to get your partying endless big city fix. I also strongly recommend Vancouver, BC or Toronto or any big city in Japan (Osaka especially) or China (Chongqing, Beijing, Shanghai). I used to party endlessly in Vancouver (even though I lived/undergrad'd in Seattle in the early 1990s) because it is just so much better NYC feel up there. .... But unless you get a great job in those cities, I imagine your stay there wouldn't be for too long - and like many of my friends, you'll be back in or near OKC because the city keeps improving itself.

I for one, would move back but I am "allergic" to the hot/humid weather. haha (but I do visit usually once a year).

Oh, one more thing - you will soon realize, that amenities that exist in other cities were started by people who wanted those amenities. They didn't just appear out of nowhere or the city government of say... Seattle, didn't build EMP; Paul Allen did. and Paul Allen did because HE wanted it and he knew it would be an attraction for Seattle for young people.

In fact, I can't name ONE THING that would appeal to someone in your age group - that was built by the city of Seattle. So, maybe you're speaking to the wrong people or (blaming the wrong people) - or maybe the city or chamber could hear your concerns and try to address this (admittedly) very long ignored age group by creating truly urban zones/districts that appeal to SINGLE YOUNG ADULTS (allowing NON-FAMILY activities to happen there.. ..). ...

If this is what you are talking about Fred, I agree - how can we get that message. OKC should try to appeal to EVERY age group and every nationality, the city could create areas of town that appeal to the 24/7 lifestyle.

Have you been inside of coyote ugly recently? It's worse than a day-time strip bar, the "talent", I mean.

I have to agree with him on this.. For all the hype about that place right before it opened, I would have expected a whole lot more. It's very disappointing, I'd be embarrassed to take clients in there.

And didn't they even have tryouts?? I'd hate to see the ones who lost.

Fred, I live in Seattle - and while things do LOOK better when you move to a different city, you will shortly realize how good OKC actually is.

OKC has a lot going against it, no mountains or ocean geographical features, no significant forest or other scenic features. OKC is inbetween everything, the start of the forest, the start of the grassland.

YET, there is NO way you could say with a straight face that OKC hasn't improved within the last 15 years. And you certainly could not base that off girls at strip bars.

I didn't base it off girls at strip bars. I made a comparison of the ugly chicks at coyote ugly to the type of girls they hire for day-time hours in strip bars.

anyway, whatever. **** this forum. I'm getting attacked in every thread I post for no reason at all

I didn't base it off girls at strip bars. I made a comparison of the ugly chicks at coyote ugly to the type of girls they hire for day-time hours in strip bars.

anyway, whatever. **** this forum. I'm getting attacked in every thread I post for no reason at all

You are the epidemy of "Can dish it out, but can't take it." Good ridance.