Much discussion ensued during this week's City Council meeting regarding a new ordinance for electronic signs across the city. Pertinent issues relate to the size of the signs, aesthetics of electronic signs (especially in historic or emerging commercial districts), need for a fair and consistent ordinance that is enforceable, need to respond to eminent technology, and need to set clear guidelines for local businesses in crafting future signs.

I'd like to hear from some of you with special knowledge about how these kinds of ordinances are being crafted in other cities and the pros and cons of allowing and disallowing the expansion of LED sign technology (Las Vegas/Times Square versus Burlington, VT).

Does having or not having a frequency of large LED signs make us a big league city? How should we effectively respond to this rapid shift in technology while maintaining a commitment to aesthetics and responsible urban planning?

Is it really regarding something on the scale of Las Vegas...i don't think so. I'm pretty sure they are focussing on the traditional road-side signs. Most businesses can't afford the large size signs that you might be refferring to. We'll see the small scale ones like at OnCue, but I don't really get the impression that the business level sign is the issue in OKC.

Personally, for me the more light the better. I love driving on Interstate 75 through downtown Atlanta and seeing the numerous illuminated displays and advertising. It gives the illusion that things are happening - even when they aren't.

I would like to see a large sign in motion LED's on the freeway showing the Thunder or the soon to be revamped Blazers in action.

If Las Vegas can do it, I think we can also.

Is it really regarding something on the scale of Las Vegas...i don't think so.

From what I understood watching the council meeting on this... a business on North Western wanted a 200 square foot LED sign. That's pretty big.

Something like that would be pretty cool above the Rainbow Records building at 23rd and Classen.... or dare I say above the Plaza Court.

There's nothing to say that large signs will be sprouting up everywhere. The proposed ordinance calls for up to 200 sq foot of signage for any particular display (which, btw, the ordinance pertains to business/school/church signage rather than billboards. Billboards are a separate category). Obviously, we have a long way to go before becoming a Las Vegas. However, that language was used throughout the council's discussion as an argument against the slippery slope of large LED technology.

Sporadic LED signs will look tacky. And they're distracting.

In Dallas they passed this type of ordinance and it prevents old signs on old businesses from being repaired when they broke. Also when a building was refurbed, they couldn't restore the signs and it really made the whole rehab effort seem more shallow. I wasn't a fan of it.

Slightly off topic but has to do with sign ordinances.... wouldn't it be cool if there was some sort of incentive for existing business on Rt. 66 to put up neon signs or elements and a design requirement for new construction and businesses to incorporate neon (or even large LEDs). We could have the best stretch of 66 in the country.

Slightly off topic but has to do with sign ordinances.... wouldn't it be cool if there was some sort of incentive for existing business on Rt. 66 to put up neon signs or elements and a design requirement for new construction and businesses to incorporate neon (or even large LEDs). We could have the best stretch of 66 in the country.

I would be in favor of that.

Precisely such an incentive exists for merchants along Broadway in the Automobile Alley district. That's the source of all of the neon installed there over the past decade. I'm pretty certain it is still in place. It was originally funded by a grant from the OCCF. It provided matching funds of up to $1000 for approved sign designs incorporating neon. After they exhausted the first $10,000 the fund was renewed. Not sure where it stands today, but I think it was one of the cooler things to come out of the Historic Automobile Alley Main Street Program (1996-2000).

Personally, for me the more light the better. I love driving on Interstate 75 through downtown Atlanta and seeing the numerous illuminated displays and advertising. It gives the illusion that things are happening - even when they aren't.

I agree with Kerry on that for sure! I think it makes the city feel alive.

Slightly off topic but has to do with sign ordinances.... wouldn't it be cool if there was some sort of incentive for existing business on Rt. 66 to put up neon signs or elements and a design requirement for new construction and businesses to incorporate neon (or even large LEDs). We could have the best stretch of 66 in the country.


Yup,
Getting the Carlyle Motel sign repaired (It should be flashing red/green) as well as fixing the hat at the Western Motel and the dripping faucet at the plumbing supply would be fantastic.

Having a lot of big blinky flashy neon signs in your city probably isn't a good thing, unless you're Vegas.

I think they are way better than old billboard signs. But at the same time, the city should really think long and hard about what corridor widths around its highways it will allow signs to be placed in, and about maximum number of signs in a corridor and minimum distance between signs. Otherwise we'll just end up looking like the Texas highways... ugly ugly ugly.

Slightly off topic but has to do with sign ordinances.... wouldn't it be cool if there was some sort of incentive for existing business on Rt. 66 to put up neon signs or elements and a design requirement for new construction and businesses to incorporate neon (or even large LEDs). We could have the best stretch of 66 in the country.

Rt. 66 actually has a program like this in place. I know this because the Tower Theatre renovations have only resulted in some gutting and the restoration of that great neon sign overlooking NW 23rd, which is on the old Rt. 66 route. They got either a federal or nonprofit grant for doing that, but I do know that the source was dedicated specifically toward restoring Rt 66's neon signs.

Another thing, is I think there is a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding on what the old Rt. 66 route is, through OKC. Tulsa has done a great job of restoring their Rt 66 segment, but OKC, not so much. That harkens back to the fact that OKC doesn't do nearly as good a job of celebrating our heritage as Tulsa does. I know that 39th Street is what it exits on towards the west, on the east it comes in from Arcadia. Between there, I'm clueless. I've heard 23rd was part of it, I know 39th is part of it, and I know Britton Rd was also part of it. Seems like it was very windy or maybe it was realigned a few times.

Another thing, is I think there is a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding on what the old Rt. 66 route is, through OKC. Tulsa has done a great job of restoring their Rt 66 segment, but OKC, not so much. That harkens back to the fact that OKC doesn't do nearly as good a job of celebrating our heritage as Tulsa does. I know that 39th Street is what it exits on towards the west, on the east it comes in from Arcadia. Between there, I'm clueless. I've heard 23rd was part of it, I know 39th is part of it, and I know Britton Rd was also part of it. Seems like it was very windy or maybe it was realigned a few times.

OKC officially designated its route a couple years ago. I'll try to post a PDF of the map if I can find it. But, you're right, we don't do a good job of promoting it. Of course, right now, designating public funds to pay for new "Historic Route 66" signs is probably not on anyone's list.

And yes, the alignment changed many, many times. It also had Alternate routes that went all the way up May to Britton and over to Broadway.

I would like to see the path of 66 as well.. I have tricked myself into thinking it is many roads on the NW side plenty of times. It would be good to really know.

From what I understood watching the council meeting on this... a business on North Western wanted a 200 square foot LED sign.

What business wanted the sign?

What business wanted the sign?

Councilman Bowman was proposing what could happen, not an actual proposal, from what I understood. He used Sonic as an example of what could happen, not what was proposed.

Western is a funny example, since Aubrey controls much of it and would most likely not want his buildings obscured by bright signs anyway. You might call it a red herring.

Just got back from Albuquerque. Drove right on Central Blvd, which is Historical Route 66. The whole time I was thinking, man, what if we had a corridor like this?

The city should enact an outdoor sign tax of $1000/day on any outdoor signs visible from the new Crosstown Highway or the new boulevard replacing the existing Crosstown. Two or three years ago, Mayor Cornett declared his intention that the new Crosstown Highway be outdoor sign free. Within 6 months, 4 outdoor signs were built. To this date, no outdoor advertising has ever been posted on these signs. I am sure the owner(s) hoped to grandfather in their placement. This tax should not preclude businesses from having a reasonable sign promoting their business at their operating location if it is near the new Crosstown or the new boulevard.

...Two or three years ago, Mayor Cornett declared his intention that the new Crosstown Highway be outdoor sign free. Within 6 months, 4 outdoor signs were built. To this date, no outdoor advertising has ever been posted on these signs. I am sure the owner(s) hoped to grandfather in their placement. ...

The "ban" is already in place, see Steve's blog for more info...
Is The Moratorium Being Ignored? | OKC Central (http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2009/09/27/is-the-moratorium-being-ignored/)

My hometown in TN had to deal with this issue earlier last year. Lamar erected an elctronic billboard, and in turn the City of Murfreesboro threatened a lawsuit saying they're in violation of the sign ordinance, which had no mention of electronic signs at the time. Later in the year they amended it, allowing only gas stations to use them, but places like CVS, McD's, etc. may be allowed this year as well.

IMO, I don't see the big deal with an electronic billboard as you can have tons more advertisements on one screen and not on a number of other billboards only allowing one or two at a time, depending on if it is double sided or not. Plus, to me, they're more visually pleasing than some faded, torn fabric or paper billboard signs.

This email was recently sent out by Neighborhood Alliance:

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OKC Council to Vote on Electronic Signage Ordinance
They need to hear from you!

On Tuesday, Jan. 19, the City of OKC Council will consider an ordinance relating to electronic message display (EMD) signs. EMD signs range from changing texts and graphics to full-motion video.

The Council will vote on ordinances that will regulate this popular advertising method. Neighborhoods need to be aware of what's in the proposed ordinance and how it could affect them.

The proposed ordinance will allow:



Electronic signs anywhere in OKC, including in or abutting your neighborhood.
In commercial areas, businesses can erect electronic signs that are up to 200 sq. ft. (by comparison, the typical electronic signs currently at Sonic drive-ins are only 25 sq. ft.)
The ordinance even allows these huge electronic signs in residential areas so long as the messages are displayed for at least 8 seconds and do not have the appearance of movement.


Is this the image we want around our neighborhoods?

If not, your City Councilperson needs to hear from you today!

Please e-mail or call today and let them know you are concerned with the impact this ordinance will have on neighborhoods. Ask them to study the issue carefully before voting to change the EMD Ordinance.

Call 297-3884 or e-mail.....

Gary Marrs Ward1@okc.gov
Sam Bowman Ward2@okc.gov
Larry McAtee Ward3@okc.gov
Pete White Ward4@okc.gov
Brian Walters Ward5@okc.gov
Meg Slayer Ward6@okc.gov
Skip Kelly Ward7@okc.gov
Patrick Ryan Ward8@okc.gov
Mayor Mick Cornett Mayor@okc.gov

Some concerned citizens are asking for these amendments to the proposed ordinance:



Carve out the areas that currently have some type of design review, such as historic preservation districts and the urban design districts.
Limit the size of electronic signs to 75 sq. ft.
Assure that organized neighborhoods are notified of all permits for EMD signs that are within 300 feet of their neighborhood boundaries and are given the right to protest if they choose to.


Remember: The vote is Tuesday, Jan. 19 at 8:30am.!

Contact your councilperson or the mayor before the vote to have your opinion heard.

New ordinance could dramatically alter use of electronic signs | OKG Scene.com (http://www.okgazette.com/p/12776/a/5421/Default.aspx?ReturnUrl=LwBkAGUAZgBhAHUAbAB0AC4AYQB zAHAAeAAslashAHAAPQAxADIANwAyADkA)

Steve's article on this topic should be part of this thread: NewsOK (http://newsok.com/digital-sign-rule-opposition-lighting-up-neighborhoods/article/3432441)

IMO, these types of signs are fine in commercial areas but have no business being near a purely residential neighborhood. Downtown is fine, too. There should be attention given to prohibiting annoyances such as changes in color or size, flashing, brightness alterations or possibly even scrolling signs where drivers could be distracted.

I hear that the ordinance passed this morning, but with the amendments urged by neighborhood groups. Seems like good news.

Great news for people with epilepsy! Look for someone to have a seizure, crash, die, and then we can thank the lord there is a cap on lawsuits against municipalities. I fought to get protection for people at the water gardens in Ft Worth, the council didn't do anything, and a few months later 4 people were dead. Look for a repeat in this "big league city!!!"

Very sad, but you can't be anti-business these days. Not good for "business".