Just returned from a visit to family in Oklahoma and when I recounted the classmates I graduated with many years ago, very few still lived in my hometown or even in the State. that made me wonder what are the top reasons that our young adults leave the State and what can or should our two major cities do to stem the tide?

Jobs.

Tough to get a "good job" with "opportunities for advancement" and "decent starting pay" and the whole shabang when you're right out of college in OKC.

You're better off in Dallas, Houston, Chicago, or even Omaha.

these are the typical arguments -- however -- they are easily countered by low cost of living, better chance for home ownership, better place to settle down. maybe not as appealing to the 20 year olds, but sure is to the 30 year olds.

Oklahoma had traditionally had an inferiority complex. Kids can't wait to leave town to prove they are more sophisticated than their roots would suggest. Many of them are anti religion and hold an anti conservative viewpoint. Sometimes it passes, sometimes not.

High-End Jobs, focusing in medical fields, and the alternative energy industry.

Oklahoma had traditionally had an inferiority complex. Kids can't wait to leave town to prove they are more sophisticated than their roots would suggest. Many of them are anti religion and hold an anti conservative viewpoint. Sometimes it passes, sometimes not.

I'm not anti religion or anti conservative, but could you blame someone after growing up in the Land of Sally Kern? Honestly..

Right, Spartan. The intense and open hatred toward gays, atheists, and virtually any non-protestant has been enough to drive many of my friends away from Oklahoma. I'm soon to be one of them.

I'm sorry. Please stay.

I'm not anti religion or anti conservative, but could you blame someone after growing up in the Land of Sally Kern? Honestly..

Sure could.

Kern is only one person. I am sure, if you try, you can find plenty of people to be role models you respect and admire If you want to define the state as "Sally Kern," you go right ahead. The complex exhisted long before she showed up.

Most of my friends and family who moved (or want to move) out of OKC are church-going Christians.

Engaging jobs with good pay, vibrant commercial neighborhoods, opportunities to grow professionally and culturally, and affordable housing.

Well anyway, I do definitely agree with you that there is a negative complex of people that have been convinced living in Okielahoma isn't a good thing. It's very unfortunate.

We're turning it around, that's the good news. The bad news is that to completely turn it around, it will be tough. Places like Dallas and Denver are huge draws because they're seen as "exciting." We have to endeavor to create that "exciting" feel that those nearby cities have.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1020/1414517804_bc03cff28c.jpg
When I think of Denver, this is what I think of. A city that's modern and cool and sleek. That's very far from what most people think of OKC unfortunately, including people who should absolutely know better, sometimes to an even greater mistake.

Okies are often disappointed when they go to other places because they've had it drilled into their heads that these other cities are so much superior and so much cooler than OKC. The reality is that OKC has a lot of cool areas, but it's not hard to convince everyone that they're not cool areas by the "LA standard" or the "Chicago standard" or whatever.

Jobs.

Tough to get a "good job" with "opportunities for advancement" and "decent starting pay" and the whole shabang when you're right out of college in OKC.

You're better off in Dallas, Houston, Chicago, or even Omaha. Please Omaha???? lol..............................

Another thread, same topic, same answers. Groups like the State Chamber, Greater OKC Chamber, AEP, Leadership OKC and other groups have been working on attracting young professionals for several years now. Things like Devon, MAPS 3 and NBA Thunder help a long ways towards this goal. So would a Whole Foods believe it or not. Your exact question was my job for a while several years ago; to attract and retain young professionals to OKC.

You obviously did such a good job, metro. I'll send you a postcard of an urban city when I go back to Calgary. :)

How many times does this topic need to be rehashed, regurgitated, recycled and consumed before we all finally get it.

People are down on Oklahoma period. It's a joke. They obsess over Sally Kern and weed out every single negative happening and record it like they're preparing the state's parole hearing.

Do any of you have any idea how hard local Oklahoma City firms bust their tail to recruit fresh talent that default to Texas once the paper diploma is in their hand? Then the same firms have to look out of state for talent which is twice as tough to accomplish.

We have to change our own attitudes about Oklahoma. It's why I have a lot of respect for creative Oklahomans who do stay to keep Oklahoma City going. But there is a force OKC has to work against constantly. For every young professional that leaves the state is another opportunity lost, not because Oklahoma ran them out, but because they ran themselves out.

Imagine how many MORE companies there would be in OKC if MORE young professionals stayed to make something of themselves instead of heading to Dallas to punch some clock. If more young professionals stayed to create companies, they would create jobs and create more opportunities which would create more income for more retail opportunities which then would create more tax revenue to fix our roads faster and maybe even gain a seat in congress. That's how a city grows. AND THAT'S THE OLDEST TRICK IN THE BOOK!!!

But... in a default American mentality, such a simple concept is a challenge. The attitudes of some people in Oklahoma are piss-poor. Period.

Welllll.. the reality is us young folks don't owe an allegiance to any particular spot on the map. We're free to move wherever we want, in fact in this culture, it's almost encouraged to live in several different cities, which I think is GREAT for broadening one's horizons.

When it's so simple to pick up and move these days, why not focus instead on positioning OKC to benefit from such moves, instead of guilting our young people for wanting to experience a different place after they move out? This post is just a response to okcpulse's post..

It seems like this discussion has happened numerous times on this forum.

Yes, OKC needs to continue urbanizing. Yes, it needs more cultural tolerance. Yes, it needs lots more "sleek" and "new" and "dense." Yes, it needs a Whole Foods.

But the more relevant and more mundane reasons are jobs and circumstance. As an example, I grew up in OKC, don't live there anymore, and probably won't ever live there again. And it's not because I don't like OKC. In fact I love it...in many ways more than where I live now, St. Louis. I live in St. Louis because my first job out of college was in St. Louis, and the professional networks I built lead me to my second job a few years later, and then my third a few years after that. The longer I have lived here, the more my life has been built around my friends and my contacts here.

Sometimes the answer as to why people don't stay in OKC is that the circumstances of their lives draw them elsewhere, and that's not always OKC's fault.

More than anything, the city has got to grow lots of different kinds of jobs in lots of different kinds of industries. Entice the college grads to stay (or come back) because the professional opportunities are better or at least on par with peer cities.

By the way, I'm tired of seeing "cost of living" used as a justification for a low salary. Housing is cheaper in OKC than other cities, most other goods and services are fairly comparable. And even housing isn't that big a deal, you give up a bedroom or a bathroom and you're about at the same place (at least that's the OKC vs. St. Louis comparison). My 2000 SF here costs what a 2500 SF house might in OKC. Not a persuasive argument.

How many times does this topic need to be rehashed, regurgitated, recycled and consumed before we all finally get it.

People are down on Oklahoma period. It's a joke. They obsess over Sally Kern and weed out every single negative happening and record it like they're preparing the state's parole hearing.

Do any of you have any idea how hard local Oklahoma City firms bust their tail to recruit fresh talent that default to Texas once the paper diploma is in their hand? Then the same firms have to look out of state for talent which is twice as tough to accomplish.

We have to change our own attitudes about Oklahoma. It's why I have a lot of respect for creative Oklahomans who do stay to keep Oklahoma City going. But there is a force OKC has to work against constantly. For every young professional that leaves the state is another opportunity lost.

Imagine how many MORE companies there would be in OKC if MORE young professionals stayed to make something of themselves instead of heading to Dallas to punch some clock. If more young professionals stayed to create companies, they would create jobs and create more opportunities which would create more income for more retail opportunities which then would create more tax revenue to fix our roads faster and maybe even gain a seat in congress.

But... in a default American mentality, such a simple concept is a challenge. The attitudes of some people in Oklahoma are piss-poor. Period. In order to change our attitudes about Oklahoma, then Oklahoma is going to "have to change" and move into the 21st Century. First, if their are not enough high paying professional jobs in a city then the chance of young people staying in Oklahoma is very slim, I am sorry to say. The state has antiquated liquor laws, religious zealots, not enough Fortune 500 companies based in Oklahoma. College degree people in Oklahoma are lower than the national average and face it, Oklahoma puts more emphasis on vo-tech and trade schools making it a haven for blue collar jobs. Oklahoma is highly dependent on the oil and gas industry and we have not diversified "enough" to make Oklahoma attractive for young people to stay. I can say this because being a native of Oklahoma I wanted to see the state succeed but quite frankly, I perceive that Oklahomans (not all) are just content on the way things are because they are comfortable with it and do not have huge aspirations. The one's that do want to aspire to greater things tend to leave the State. That is generally the truth. So again, if Oklahoma people have piss-poor attitudes it is due to poor leadership and enept, leaders who make stupid laws that do nothing to move the State forward.

Welllll.. the reality is us young folks don't owe an allegiance to any particular spot on the map. We're free to move wherever we want, in fact in this culture, it's almost encouraged to live in several different cities, which I think is GREAT for broadening one's horizons.

When it's so simple to pick up and move these days, why not focus instead on positioning OKC to benefit from such moves, instead of guilting our young people for wanting to experience a different place after they move out? This post is just a response to okcpulse's post..

If people want to move to other cities to experience something different, then that's fine, I'm all for that. But many of them bad-mouth OKC on the way out, and they are doing the city a disservice by doing just that.

OKC is doing a lot of good by positioning themselves to benefit from such moves. Any educated college grad should be able to give credit where credit is due.

You obviously did such a good job, metro. I'll send you a postcard of an urban city when I go back to Calgary. :)

Well just looking at most of my classmates from OU, the vast majority are still here, so obviously someone is doing right (and I just graduated in May). And my now ex gf who just graduated told me that nearly all jobs that came through career services at OU were out of OKC, with only and handful in Tulsa and a few more out of state.

As a caveat, however, I was in the business school as an undergrad. From my personal experience, OKC still does loose quite a few MBA's, MD's, PhD's, and other high level college graduates. I think this is the case because OKC still lacks the critical mass of urban amenities like decent shopping, art museums, walkable neighborhoods, etc. etc. pretty much everything that has already been mentioned. I have to say I was at my parents in Dallas for most of the holidays and seeing all of the small urban "villages" that have popped up everywhere made me a little envious.

The great thing for OKC is we are getting into a situation whee we can finally start getting some of these things, we are just not at the "critical mass" level yet. I want to add that people love to point out these cities that are supposedly magnets for young professionals like NYC, SF, Boston, Chicago, DC. The truth is all of these cities (the lone exception being DC b/c of the government) have been loosing 25-34 year olds for a while because of the high cost of living and the fact that most of these areas just don't have any job growth. My life is hardly an appropriate cross section of how things are but I can honestly say I know ONE person that moved to LA (got a job at PWC) and ONE person who moved to Boston (went to grad school) out of the hundreds of people I knew at OU who graduated with their undergrads. One the other hand, I know plenty of people who are now in Phoenix, Charlotte, Atlanta, Dallas, Austin, Houston, Denver, Nashville, Indianapolis, and others. None of these cities are particularly "urban" or havens of tolerance, but they do have a strong urban core while still having decent job growth and affordable living choices. People need to live, and at the end of the day that's what will be the major factor for most people.

This is a very obtainable goal for OKC, we just need to keep doing what we are doing. The end goal isn't going to happen tomorrow. It took a loooong time for things to slip away. I agree with a previous poster that this thread has rehashed itself several times over and quite frankly life will take people other places, its nobody's fault. And it needs to be mentioned how many things the "great recession" has probably put on ice both locally and nationwide. OKC is probably in better shape than most people realize.

OKC is a work in progress. Instead of whining and saying ain't it awful, roll up your sleeves and cook. Alternatively, go where they have the meal prepared and all you have to do is pull up a chair, wait for the waitstaff to hand you a menu and waive your credit card at them to pay for the experience.

Go do your history. The city of Oklahoma City. I can't believe so many snooty young people aren't more embarassed that they are so blatantly wanting to be catered to rather than being part of a movement. This city is in the process of growing. Be a part of it, contribute to it, or, by all means, go somewhere where someone else has done the work and buy your whole foods happy meal there.

In order to change our attitudes about Oklahoma, then Oklahoma is going to "have to change" and move into the 21st Century.

Oklahoma has been doing just that, but there are still hurdles to clear.


First, if their are not enough high paying professional jobs in a city then the change of young people staying in Oklahoma is very slim, I am sorry to say.

Please again refer to my post about college grads staying to CREATE companies with high-paying jobs. I think we can all agree that very few are entreprenuers, and if they are, they don't believe in Oklahoma enough. Not that they have to, but the opportunity is always there. Anyone can seize it.


The state has antiquated liquor laws,

So does Utah. Didn't stop the high paying jobs from going there, did it?


religious zealots,

Again, Texas is loaded with religious zealots. Didn't stop Houston or Dallas and it DAMN sure didn't stop Austin.


not enough Fortune 500 companies based in Oklahoma. College degree people in Oklahoma are lower than the national average

Perhaps if college grads stopped moving... hmmm. Again, refer to my post about the opportunity to create a Fortune 500 company in OKC.


and face it, Oklahoma puts more emphasis on vo-tech and trade schools making it a haven for blue collar jobs.

Not sure if that's the case anymore. When Lucent, Dayton Tire and GM were around, vo-techs were needed. Not so much the case anymore.


Oklahoma is highly dependent on the oil and gas industry and we have not diversified "enough" to make Oklahoma attractive for young people to stay.

I agree with you on that point. But again, if college grads stayed and got aggressive, perhaps then we can diversify. Wooing corporate relocations are becoming a thing of the past.


I can say this because being a native of Oklahoma I wanted to see the state succeed but quite frankly, I perceive that Oklahomans (not all) are just content on the way things are because they are comfortable with it and do not have huge aspirations.

I strongly disagree. I run into too many Oklahomans that whine about "not enough high paying jobs" i.e. this thread, that I have a hard time making the connection with unsatisfied Okies and those that are "fine with the way things are".


The one's that do want to aspire to greater things tend to leave the State.

And where does that leave Oklahoma? If a dad leaves his family and he's the only one bringing in the cash where does that leave them? They're left to pick up the pieces and try to move on with the odds against them.


That is generally the truth. So again, if Oklahoma people have piss-poor attitudes it is due to poor leadership and enept, leaders who make stupid laws that do nothing to move the State forward.

Damn, and I though MAPS3 was a good thing. Okay then.

OKC is a work in progress. Instead of whining and saying ain't it awful, roll up your sleeves and cook. Alternatively, go where they have the meal prepared and all you have to do is pull up a chair, wait for the waitstaff to hand you a menu and waive your credit card at them to pay for the experience.

Go do your history. The city of Oklahoma City. I can't believe so many snooty young people aren't more embarassed that they are so blatantly wanting to be catered to rather than being part of a movement. This city is in the process of growing. Be a part of it, contribute to it, or, by all means, go somewhere where someone else has done the work and buy your whole foods happy meal there.

^^ One awesome post ^^ :yourock:

OKC is a work in progress. Instead of whining and saying ain't it awful, roll up your sleeves and cook. Alternatively, go where they have the meal prepared and all you have to do is pull up a chair, wait for the waitstaff to hand you a menu and waive your credit card at them to pay for the experience.

Go do your history. The city of Oklahoma City. I can't believe so many snooty young people aren't more embarassed that they are so blatantly wanting to be catered to rather than being part of a movement. This city is in the process of growing. Be a part of it, contribute to it, or, by all means, go somewhere where someone else has done the work and buy your whole foods happy meal there.

Agree. I will add that I work with quite a few people in their late 20's and early 30's and we are all very bullish on OKC even while acknowledging its faults. So it kind of irks me that threads like this pop up and blab about how OKC is stuck in the past, everyone is moving away, the sky is falling, blah blah blah. Maybe I'm missing something.

Oklahoma had traditionally had an inferiority complex. Kids can't wait to leave town to prove they are more sophisticated than their roots would suggest. Many of them are anti religion and hold an anti conservative viewpoint. Sometimes it passes, sometimes not.

This is a very extreme statement.

Many people are not extreme conservatives and don't feel comfortable living someplace that is. Most of the big cities where people move are more culturally diverse and tolerant and not the buckle of the bible belt.

I go to church, but I'm not entirely comfortable with the in-your-face evangelism in Oklahoma, and I'm not on board with the Sally Kern types.

Mainly people want the ability to be stimulated and have an interesting quality of life -- and of course, better career opportunities.

For the record, I think OKC is on the right track.

This is a very extreme statement.

Many people are not extreme conservatives and don't feel comfortable living someplace that is. Most of the big cities where people move are more culturally diverse and tolerant and not the buckle of the bible belt.

I go to church, but I'm not entirely comfortable with the in-your-face evangelism in Oklahoma, and I'm not on board with the Sally Kern types.

Mainly people want the ability to be stimulated and have an interesting quality of life -- and of course, better career opportunities.

For the record, I think OKC is on the right track.

Statistically, the buckle of the bible belt is central Missouri.

How many times does this topic need to be rehashed, regurgitated, recycled and consumed before we all finally get it.

People are down on Oklahoma period. It's a joke. They obsess over Sally Kern and weed out every single negative happening and record it like they're preparing the state's parole hearing.

Do any of you have any idea how hard local Oklahoma City firms bust their tail to recruit fresh talent that default to Texas once the paper diploma is in their hand? Then the same firms have to look out of state for talent which is twice as tough to accomplish.

We have to change our own attitudes about Oklahoma. It's why I have a lot of respect for creative Oklahomans who do stay to keep Oklahoma City going. But there is a force OKC has to work against constantly. For every young professional that leaves the state is another opportunity lost, not because Oklahoma ran them out, but because they ran themselves out.

Imagine how many MORE companies there would be in OKC if MORE young professionals stayed to make something of themselves instead of heading to Dallas to punch some clock. If more young professionals stayed to create companies, they would create jobs and create more opportunities which would create more income for more retail opportunities which then would create more tax revenue to fix our roads faster and maybe even gain a seat in congress. That's how a city grows. AND THAT'S THE OLDEST TRICK IN THE BOOK!!!

But... in a default American mentality, such a simple concept is a challenge. The attitudes of some people in Oklahoma are piss-poor. Period.

This is a pretty good post, but aren't you one of the people who left Oklahoma?

This is a pretty good post, but aren't you one of the people who left Oklahoma?

I left because of family matters, not because I wanted to start a career elsewhere. When all is done, I am moving my family back to OKC. Let me assure you that my wife and I make trips back to OKC often just to enjoy watching the changes as they happen. That and to visit friends and our families.

If my in-laws weren't in Houston, moving would not have even been considered.

This is a very extreme statement.

Many people are not extreme conservatives and don't feel comfortable living someplace that is. Most of the big cities where people move are more culturally diverse and tolerant and not the buckle of the bible belt.

I go to church, but I'm not entirely comfortable with the in-your-face evangelism in Oklahoma, and I'm not on board with the Sally Kern types.

Mainly people want the ability to be stimulated and have an interesting quality of life -- and of course, better career opportunities.

For the record, I think OKC is on the right track.
I find OKC to be much less "in-your-face" religion wise than it was 30 or so years ago, I was also somewhat "anti-religious" back then as well. There are many things much more out in the open than back then. I find there are less of the Sally Kern types than there uesed to be or there are just so many more people there now to dilute those down some. I remember Rev. Jim Vineyard on the news all the time getting arrested for protesting adult bookstores and the street corner preachers from his church out all the time in NW OKC. They were the definition of "in-your-face" back then, I just didn't see that type of stuff there in the last 10-15 years that I lived there.

Sure there are the extremists like Kern (and her husband's church) but they are everywhere including here in "liberal" Austin. In fact I think you are more likely to find it now in suburban DFW and Houston than you are OKC.

OKC has made great strides, yes more is needed but it has come a long ways.


Statistically, the buckle of the bible belt is central Missouri.
Joplin to Springfield? Right where all those little bible colleges are located.

I worked out in the Sacramento area for awhile, one of the contractors that I worked with invited me to his house for dinner a few times. He had a daughter who went to one of those schools in Springfield on a softball scholarship. They had grown up going to a "conservative church" in Sacramento and considered themselves "conservative" religiously. She said she found out all too well that California conservative was a whole different world than Missouri bible school conservative.

OKC is a work in progress. Instead of whining and saying ain't it awful, roll up your sleeves and cook. Alternatively, go where they have the meal prepared and all you have to do is pull up a chair, wait for the waitstaff to hand you a menu and waive your credit card at them to pay for the experience.

Go do your history. The city of Oklahoma City. I can't believe so many snooty young people aren't more embarassed that they are so blatantly wanting to be catered to rather than being part of a movement. This city is in the process of growing. Be a part of it, contribute to it, or, by all means, go somewhere where someone else has done the work and buy your whole foods happy meal there.

Good speech coach. Right now I am seriously considering making sure I never live in a 100 mile radius of you.. and you misspelled embarrassed. Are you going for crazy online lady?

Again, Texas is loaded with religious zealots. Didn't stop Houston or Dallas and it DAMN sure didn't stop Austin.


Austin is the most liberal city in the Southwest. It certainly is not a haven for religious zealots.

Statistically, the buckle of the bible belt is central Missouri.

Well I thought Lubbock had the most churches per capita the world over. Eh, whadya say we just plop a point halfway between Central Missourah and Lubbock?

On a side note, pulse..I promise you, mark my word, once you leave Houston that town will finally grow on you lol. Usually works that way.

OKC is a work in progress. Instead of whining and saying ain't it awful, roll up your sleeves and cook. Alternatively, go where they have the meal prepared and all you have to do is pull up a chair, wait for the waitstaff to hand you a menu and waive your credit card at them to pay for the experience.

Go do your history. The city of Oklahoma City. I can't believe so many snooty young people aren't more embarassed that they are so blatantly wanting to be catered to rather than being part of a movement. This city is in the process of growing. Be a part of it, contribute to it, or, by all means, go somewhere where someone else has done the work and buy your whole foods happy meal there.

I sincerely hope your sanctimonious post wasn't directed at the people on this board, who are obviously committed to making OKC a more attractive and interesting place to live.

I'm in my early 40s and I've been thinking every few years that OKC was "about to reach critical mass." My youth is evaporating and at some point you want to live your life in a manner that is important to you. Waiting for Joe Van Bullard, the OKC Chamber and Clay Bennett to make something happen isn't enough.

Yet, I'm still here doing what I can.

Austin is the most liberal city in the Southwest. It certainly is not a haven for religious zealots.

Right, and that is because liberals have assimilated there over the years. See where I am going with this? :artist:

Right, and that is because liberals have assimilated there over the years. See where I am going with this? :artist:

Not really. It's pretty much always been that way.

That is true. Austin is different though, as a result of having UT located downtown. If OU were located downtown...yeah.

Since Austin was mentioned, I predict bluedog posts in this thread in t-minus 2 minutes..

Austin is the most liberal city in the Southwest. It certainly is not a haven for religious zealots.
Austin is "liberal" for this part of the country but compared to the liberal meccas on the costs Austin would be considered a just little left of center...at least in the opinion of many of the west coasters who live here now. In their opinion California Conservatives and Austin Liberals are much closer in ideology than than they are to Texas Conservatives.

Since Austin was mentioned, I predict bluedog posts in this thread in t-minus 2 minutes..

Damn, you're good. 2 minutes to the tick!

I sincerely hope your sanctimonious post wasn't directed at the people on this board, who are obviously committed to making OKC a more attractive and interesting place to live.

I'm in my early 40s and I've been thinking every few years that OKC was "about to reach critical mass." My youth is evaporating and at some point you want to live your life in a manner that is important to you. Waiting for Joe Van Bullard, the OKC Chamber and Clay Bennett to make something happen isn't enough.

Yet, I'm still here doing what I can.

It is directed at the ones who are all pissy and leaving in such a pissy manner. It certainly wasn't aimed at the ones staying although the ones who refuse to honor the good in the area and want to completely trash it are just tiresome. But nothing new.

Does it never cross your mind that people might complain because they want to see OKC improve? In my opinion it's the people that want to see OKC make improvement that are the real exemplary citizens, and that goes for anywhere, cool or uncool.

I left OKC at the age of 34, for the Dallas/FW area, 22 years ago, for many of the reasons cited in earlier posts.

In the last few years, when I return to visit family, I'm very impressed by a lot of the changes I see. Not enough to move back though. I couldn't define what it would take for that to happen .

I just skimmed most of the previous posts, but I read a couple that mentioned an ingrained inferiority complex. This has it's roots way back in state history:

1. You won't find a bigger OU football fan in Texas than me, and there are a lot of them here. But the name Sooners... In 1889 the poorest of the poor from MO, TX, KS and AK came to Indian Territory for free land. The lowest of the low in this group snuck around Army lines and staked out the prime land before anyone else got there (Gaylord?). The derogatory term (in 1889) that we gave these people is what we chose as a nickname?

2. The state flower, Mistletoe. Really? A parasite?

We do have one of the coolest state birds, the scissor-tail flycatcher. The only one that comes close is NM's road runner.
Some really great, legendary, iconic Americans were Okies too: Woody Guthrie, Mickey Mantle, Will Rogers, Wiley Post.

Rick

I left OKC at the age of 34, for the Dallas/FW area, 22 years ago, for many of the reasons cited in earlier posts.

In the last few years, when I return to visit family, I'm very impressed by a lot of the changes I see. Not enough to move back though. I couldn't define what it would take for that to happen .

I just skimmed most of the previous posts, but I read a couple that mentioned an ingrained inferiority complex. This has it's roots way back in state history:

1. You won't find a bigger OU football fan in Texas than me, and there are a lot of them here. But the name Sooners... In 1889 the poorest of the poor from MO, TX, KS and AK came to Indian Territory for free land. The lowest of the low in this group snuck around Army lines and staked out the prime land before anyone else got there (Gaylord?). The derogatory term (in 1889) that we gave these people is what we chose as a nickname?

2. The state flower, Mistletoe. Really? A parasite?

We do have one of the coolest state birds, the scissor-tail flycatcher. The only one that comes close is NM's road runner.
Some really great, legendary, iconic Americans were Okies too: Woody Guthrie, Mickey Mantle, Will Rogers, Wiley Post.

Rick

In Gaylord's defense, he didn't show up until almost a decade after the land run.

And the state flower is now the Oklahoma Rose. The Mistletoe has been demoted. But if the mistletoe should be cursed upon, why does everyone keep hanging these parasites over the doorway hoping to be kissed by someone?

Does it never cross your mind that people might complain because they want to see OKC improve? In my opinion it's the people that want to see OKC make improvement that are the real exemplary citizens, and that goes for anywhere, cool or uncool.

But why be do derogatory? These remarks snowball and after a few posts someone shows up agreeing and voicing their desire to leave. That is far from constructive criticism.

It is directed at the ones who are all pissy and leaving in such a pissy manner. It certainly wasn't aimed at the ones staying although the ones who refuse to honor the good in the area and want to completely trash it are just tiresome. But nothing new.

Frankly, this judgmental attitude of yours is part of the problem. I don't see many people wanting to "trash" OKC. To point out its deficiencies is not trashing.

One of the effects of all of this "trashing" is that some of the players who have power and make decisions in this city have started to listen to some of the "trashing" and make positive changes for OKC.

Defensiveness and belittling -- or lectures about looking on the bright side -- are not effective strategies for self-improvement.

This is not to say people should just be negative nellies.

In order to change our attitudes about Oklahoma, then Oklahoma is going to "have to change" and move into the 21st Century. First, if their are not enough high paying professional jobs in a city then the chance of young people staying in Oklahoma is very slim, I am sorry to say. The state has antiquated liquor laws, religious zealots, not enough Fortune 500 companies based in Oklahoma. College degree people in Oklahoma are lower than the national average and face it, Oklahoma puts more emphasis on vo-tech and trade schools making it a haven for blue collar jobs. Oklahoma is highly dependent on the oil and gas industry and we have not diversified "enough" to make Oklahoma attractive for young people to stay. I can say this because being a native of Oklahoma I wanted to see the state succeed but quite frankly, I perceive that Oklahomans (not all) are just content on the way things are because they are comfortable with it and do not have huge aspirations. The one's that do want to aspire to greater things tend to leave the State. That is generally the truth. So again, if Oklahoma people have piss-poor attitudes it is due to poor leadership and enept, leaders who make stupid laws that do nothing to move the State forward.

PB,
I think I concur with your POV. I might add far too little curtural diversity. Too few representatives of other cultures, Indian, African, South American, eastern european. Having neighborhoods represented by different cultures exposes one to different cuisines, art, music etc

I'm not anti religion or anti conservative, but could you blame someone after growing up in the Land of Sally Kern? Honestly..
But with the Sally Kern story goes the contrasting story of how Oklahoma's first openly gay state legislator, who's from Oklahoma City, won a second term without having to face any opposition. Who would have felt that possible?

I think this is a hard question answer. Every young persons needs are diffrent. I know a lot of people including myself who could not wait to get out of Oklahoma City and realized how much I loved it two years later after coming back to visit family.

Then again leaving your hometown used to be a common thing. People used to pick a career and move to the city in which that career could flourish.

My major complaint is that too many people are desperately selling out our city just so all of the out of towners say "Oh, I just love OKC. It is so much better than _____________. "

I am afraid we are going to turn into one of those metropolitan cities were people are self centered and could careless about their neighbors unless caring will somehow give their image or ego a boost.

Modest changes are fine but... The last thing I want OKC to become is Los Angeles or New York City.

But with the Sally Kern story goes the contrasting story of how Oklahoma's first openly gay state legislator, who's from Oklahoma City, won a second term without having to face any opposition. Who would have felt that possible?

My point exactly. Sally Kern makes an ignorant remark and the anti-Oklahoma league fires up the furnace and grabs Oklahoma's feet instead of following the accomplishments of Oklahoma's first openly gay lawmaker - who is from Oklahoma City.

Look, I don't think anyone here is overdoing trying to sell Oklahoma City. Oklahoma City has its faults. The problem is people use those faults to encourage people to leave Oklahoma City - not change it. I've seen on other message boards where OKC ex-pats team up on someone looking to relocate to Oklahoma City and discourage them from doing so, and sadly they succeed.

People change Oklahoma City. Not politicians. Since when did we start relying on politicians to be cultural representatives? If people continue to discourage others from moving to OKC or leave upon college graduation, OKC will continue to face challenges. Pure and simple.

I've done enough travel in the past 5 years to know that Oklahoma doesn't exactly have the market covered on bigotry.

In fact, there are places in the East and West coasts I've been where racism is far more open than any place I've been in Oklahoma. The complex people have about Oklahoma really is a myth. OKC is just as accepting of minorities and alternate lifestyles as almost any place I've gone. A lot has changed here and I expect it to change even more in the coming years with a much more moderate generation entering the workforce.

It's one of the reasons I came back to Oklahoma City and one of the reasons I'll continue to stay here. I want to be a part of the renaissance here.

Heck if porn stars can make it here, why not anyone else. The Sally Kern demographic is a very small, very loud population group. But like anywhere else bigotry still does exist.

Surprise: Porn is popular in Oklahoma at The Lost Ogle (http://www.thelostogle.com/2009/08/05/porn-is-popular-in-oklahoma/)

Agree. I will add that I work with quite a few people in their late 20's and early 30's and we are all very bullish on OKC even while acknowledging its faults. So it kind of irks me that threads like this pop up and blab about how OKC is stuck in the past, everyone is moving away, the sky is falling, blah blah blah. Maybe I'm missing something.

Adaniel,
I did not start this thread to highlight faults, BUT because I do LOVE my home State and wanted to encourage dialogue on positive steps that can be taken to reverse what has been a decades long trend. This topic cannot be discussed enough, complacency is part of the problem. OKC has a bright future, so lets seize the moment to contibute to fundamental changes in the psyche of our City and State. Every great city/state started with visionaries that recognized the possibilities, seized the initiative that led to positive change. OKC has leaders who are doing just that, citizens who care should also actively work to improve the QofL as well.

Maybe only people that moved away from OKC should answer the original question. I didn't grow up in OKC, or Oklahoma for that matter. I grew-up in Northern California and moved to Norman when I was 20 to attend OU. While at OU for 4.5 years I fell in love with OKC. Maybe because it was the first city I lived in where I considered myself independent. I am a Christian right-winger and don't have much use for 'cultural tolerance' (whatever that means) so the likes of Sally Kern wouldn't have any impact on my decision to leave.

After graduation from OU I did not want to leave OKC, but I had to. I had student loans to pay and those cost the same regardless of cost of living concerns. I had to go where I could earn enough money to live on plus pay back the loans. There simply weren’t any options for me in Oklahoma unless I didn't want use my degree I just earned. I tried to find a job in Oklahoma where I could use my degree but there just wasn't anything. The closest thing I could find was with OG&E because they had a Geographic Information System (GIS) department. However, I would have had to start off as meter reader for a year and work my way up. Well hell's bells, I didn't need a college degree to read meters so I wasn't going to take that route.

Now that we have been away from OKC for nearly 20 years my wife and I would love to move back - my wife even more so than me. While we were there in November my kids cried when we had leave to come home. They fell in love with Norman and downtown OKC and ask nearly every day if we can move there. The problem is there simply is not any place for me to work there and it has nothing to do with the economy.

The bottom line - it all comes down to jobs. If anyone tells you anything different it is because they already have a job. Oklahoma City needs more corporate headquarters because that is where people like me work.

I seem to remember a thread a little while back about this very issue. There was a young woman in it stating her opinions on why people her age leave the state, what people her age think of OKC and she gave some suggestions on ways to improve it.

In the thread, she was treated like sh*t, called names, ridiculed and flat out told to leave if she didn't like it.

She did. She also took her business which employs around 35 people(from what she said to me), most of whom were in their 20's and 30's with her to Texas.


**edit - found the thread: http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/19649-nba-players-think-okc-boring-boo-hoo.html

I believe that some of you think that just because you have a college degree that somehow you think that you are entitled to something or someone owes you a living.
Guess what? Get a clue people. Nobody owes you anything.

If you want a job go compete with the other applicants and good luck to you. The job market is very competitive. You had better bring something else to the table besides that diploma, because yours is not the only one, I can assure you.

Before you spend tons of your parents money or get in debt up to your eyeballs in student loans, dont you think that you should check to see what jobs are available and where they are primarily located at before starting school. A little research and forecasting will go a long way. Focus on a hot job market, Ex. Nursing, Physical Therapy and Dentistry for the next 8 years or so....I am sure there are many others...

If the job is not here, pack your crap and go find it else where or go back to school for something else. Dont sit around and whin about it.....

If the job is here, more power to you. By the way, I am still waiting for all of those high paying jobs that was promised to Oklahomans if we became a right to work state. lol
I guess I will keep waiting. Some of you posters may not be old enough to know what I am referring too...

I believe that some of you think that just because you have a college degree that somehow you think that you are entitled to something or someone owes you a living.
Guess what? Get a clue people. Nobody owes you anything.

If you want a job go compete with the other applicants and good luck to you. The job market is very competitive. You had better bring something else to the table besides that diploma, because yours is not the only one, I can assure you.

Before you spend tons of your parents money or get in debt up to your eyeballs in student loans, dont you think that you should check to see what jobs are available and where they are primarily located at before starting school. A little research and forecasting will go a long way. Focus on a hot job market, Ex. Nursing, Physical Therapy and Dentistry for the next 8 years or so....I am sure there are many others...

If the job is not here, pack your crap and go find it else where or go back to school for something else. Dont sit around and whin about it.....

If the job is here, more power to you. By the way, I am still waiting for all of those high paying jobs that was promised to Oklahomans if we became a right to work state. lol
I guess I will keep waiting. Some of you posters may not be old enough to know what I am referring too...

Bob - I don't expect anyone to give me anything (I think most of the regular poster on the Political forum will agree with that). That is exactly why I moved. As for jobs in my field - I did find a job in my field; I just found it in another state. So I did exactly what you suggested – I packed my crap and moved.

As for all those high paying jobs that were supposed to come to Oklahoma... maybe we should start counting 'jobs saved' because of Right to Work. I estimate Right to Work has saved 75,000 direct jobs and 250,000 support jobs. Where did I get those numbers? The same place other 'jobs saved' numbers come from - pure imagination.

No matter what city you pick out of a hat (or car model or brand of laundry detergent), you will always be able to find somebody that has something negative to say about it. OKC will always be subject to that rule, no matter what improvements may come along. Negative impressions are generally based on an individual's personal experiences. Since it's impossible to assure that every individual that lives in OKC will have a positive experience, it seems pretty silly and counterproductive to get worked up about what some ex-pat says about OKC on some message board. I think people who worry about such things need to grow up.

After I move, whenever I'm asked about OKC I'm going to be honest about my impressions -- there's no reason I should sugarcoat or lie to a friend looking for good information. I'll say OKC has come a long way since the 90s, I'll mention the low cost of living but that it comes at a price: lack of good restaurant and shopping options, only a few interesting museums and art galleries to choose from, a lack of good public transit options, and the lack of walkable/bikeable neighborhoods. As for culture, I'll mention the night life is improving and marginally-good but only 3 days a week -- the streets generally roll up by midnight the other 4 nights. I'll talk about the generally friendly nature of the people on the surface, but that there is a deep "love it or leave it" attitude problem, a remnant inferiority complex, an aversion toward "latte-sipping cultural elites" and a lot of loudmouth Christanists running around. You have to be able to ignore all the Sally Kern-types running around (and some people can - I could deal with them for over a decade before growing too tired of them). I honestly say that all of these issues exist but that things are gradually improving with a lot of good things promised. It's up to the individual to decide whether to move and wait/hope for these improvements.

As for all those high paying jobs that were supposed to come to Oklahoma... maybe we should start counting 'jobs saved' because of Right to Work. I estimate Right to Work has saved 75,000 direct jobs and 250,000 support jobs. Where did I get those numbers? The same place other 'jobs saved' numbers come from - pure imagination.

Jobs saved due to right to work? ha, such unfunny sarcasm. Passage of right to work didn't save the hundreds of jobs lost at Mercury in Stillwater. This happened even though workers at that plant had always voted down every attempt to unionize. And the reason why? Because Oklahoma didn't have right to work. Workers didn't like being told that if they allow a union to come in that it, if it wanted to, would have the right to take money out of every paycheck, whether you were a union member, or not. Now workers can't be told that now that Oklahoma has right to work. So make no doubt about it, people who voted yes on right to work in 2001 were pretty wrong and gullible in doing so.

If right to work was so right, why should we still be having threads such as this. Maybe right to work supporters would like to bring up the new warehouses that came to Oklahoma as a result of right to work being passed, but I don't think many Oklahoma college graduates want to work in such places.

Bunty - don't fight it - R2W saved or created 325,000 jobs in Oklahoma.

so if everyone had voted No to R2W, the city and state would be attracting tons of 20-35 year old professionals?

Or is this just another thread hijack?

so if everyone had voted No to R2W, the city and state would be attracting tons of 20-35 year old professionals?

Or is this just another thread hijack?

Well the city seems pretty good at attracting this demogrphic before R2W... oh wait - not it wasn't.

I'll take thread hijack for $500 Fuzzy and then I would like to solve the puzzle.

I've done enough travel in the past 5 years to know that Oklahoma doesn't exactly have the market covered on bigotry.

In fact, there are places in the East and West coasts I've been where racism is far more open than any place I've been in Oklahoma. The complex people have about Oklahoma really is a myth. OKC is just as accepting of minorities and alternate lifestyles as almost any place I've gone. A lot has changed here and I expect it to change even more in the coming years with a much more moderate generation entering the workforce.

It's one of the reasons I came back to Oklahoma City and one of the reasons I'll continue to stay here. I want to be a part of the renaissance here.

Heck if porn stars can make it here, why not anyone else. The Sally Kern demographic is a very small, very loud population group. But like anywhere else bigotry still does exist.

Surprise: Porn is popular in Oklahoma at The Lost Ogle (http://www.thelostogle.com/2009/08/05/porn-is-popular-in-oklahoma/)

The Sally Kern crowd is very small to say the least. I think if the Gay Community had just ignored her fame would have come and gone as fast as the Macarena.