After doing vast research, Oklahoma City and some some surrounding suburbs are undergoing major urban renewal projects in the public and private sector, over the next 2 years. Some of these projects are already underway, or on the planning table. Below is a list of some projects that might be familiar to you, or that might have passed under your OKC research radar.

1. Devon World Headquarters SkyScraper (900 ft., 51 Stories, Construction Underway. Location: Central Business District
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L3gtvb8usg4/SneHPF_SPAI/AAAAAAAAAJY/4OTGdkRgQx0/s400/devon.jpg

2. SandRidge Energy Expansion (Demolishing of 4 old buildings in NE Corner of business district, replacing them with new multistory state of the art buildings revitalizing NE corner of business district. New plans are to be unveiled Jan 12, 2010.
http://kwtv.images.worldnow.com/images/11644092_SA.jpg

3. New OU Children's Physicians Building & Atrium (14 Stories, The project provides the first free-standing, pediatric multi-specialty physicians building in the state. Location: N.E. 13th And Lincoln
http://www.oumedicine.com/images/OU_Physicians/Childrens%20Building%20Entrance%20small.jpg

4. University Of Oklahoma Cancer Institute (The seven-story, 220,000 square foot OU Cancer Institute is located on the OU Health Sciences Center campus in Oklahoma City. Construction Underway.
http://www.oumedicine.com/images/OU%20Cancer%20Institute/OUCI%20Building.jpg

5. PHF Research Park Expansion (Construction Underway)
http://triok.org/images/phfmap.jpg

6. New I-40 Crosstown (4 1/2 10 lane freeway, south of old I-40)
http://www.bentley.com/NR/rdonlyres/40656225-68E7-4EB4-BE97-0A9A5A9330D5/6562/ODOTRoadway_I40.jpg

7. New Oklahoma Heart Hospital (Construction on the $98-million, 163,000 square-foot, all-digital, state-of-the-art Oklahoma Heart Hospital South Campus passed the 50% inspection conducted by the Oklahoma Health Department. Location: I-240 & Sooner Rd.
http://kwtv.images.worldnow.com/images/11651011_BG1.jpg

8. 70 Acre Central Park Approved
http://s3.amazonaws.com/newsok-photos/692938/medium.jpg

10. Dean McGee Eye Institute (onstruction of $43.5 million Dean McGee Clinical and Research Building Plans include a five-story 80,000 square-foot building for patient care, research and teaching.)
http://www.downtownokc.com/Portals/0/images/3Q%202008%20Skyline/skyline%20q3%2008/Dean%20A%20Mcgee%20Eye%20Inst%20small.jpg

11. University North Park Corporate Centre(Located in Norman, Ok, just east of I-35 coming in to Norman, from OKC. 26 Acres 6 Building Sites.
http://www.nedcok.com/scaled_images/style/main_style/440/333/managed_files/3768/UNPCC4.jpg

12. SkyDance Bridge (Connection in Core 2 Shore Project, planning stages).
http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/files/2008/09/looking-south-from-the-city-park.jpg

That's so exciting.

This:

http://triok.org/images/phfmap.jpg


and this:
http://www.nedcok.com/scaled_images/style/main_style/440/333/managed_files/3768/UNPCC4.jpg

are garbage.

^^^agreed

Interesting that the Devon painting has the sun setting but the Devon building isn'tcasting a shadow on the Colcord. Is that because the sun is setting in the NW & not the W or SW?

This:

http://triok.org/images/phfmap.jpg


and this:
http://www.nedcok.com/scaled_images/style/main_style/440/333/managed_files/3768/UNPCC4.jpg

are garbage.

I agree completely regarding the Norman development, but I'm curious as to why you feel the PHF expansion is garbage. I'm not in the direct neighborhood, but I've always felt it fit nicely with the nearby HSC/VA complex and created a nice medical district, close to downtown at that. I wish all of that could tie together better, but that's the fault of Broadway Extension and not enough through streets and pedestrian access to keep it feeling cohesive from one side to the next.

Anyway, I'm honestly curious.

I agree completely regarding the Norman development, but I'm curious as to why you feel the PHF expansion is garbage. I'm not in the direct neighborhood, but I've always felt it fit nicely with the nearby HSC/VA complex and created a nice medical district, close to downtown at that. I wish all of that could tie together better, but that's the fault of Broadway Extension and not enough through streets and pedestrian access to keep it feeling cohesive from one side to the next.

Anyway, I'm honestly curious.

Not to get into too much detail, but it's basically a suburban McOffice park plopped right in the middle of one of the more urban parts of OKC. No street frontage, no acknowledgment of surrounding buildings/neighborhood, and same crap McArchitecture in every blah building. They should spend more time researching land-use/site layout/architecture.

Norman development garbage? Any Economist can tell you that all great and booming cities have to have suburbs to support it. Norman is a prime example of how a suburb supports the mother city. Majority of the residents that live in Norman have money, and they work and spend money in Oklahoma City. So having a strong economic base in Norman will only help the Oklahoma City economy.

I wouldn't call the Norman development urban renewal considering it's along I-35 next to the airport far away from urban Norman and OU...which is a good thing.

Not to get into too much detail, but it's basically a suburban McOffice park plopped right in the middle of one of the more urban parts of OKC. No street frontage, no acknowledgment of surrounding buildings/neighborhood, and same crap McArchitecture in every blah building. They should spend more time researching land-use/site layout/architecture.

Agreed. It also buttresses a historic black neighborhood, and you wouldn't know it. There is nothing that welcomes any historical significance or sense of place. It's one of those that you can drive right by it, and completely forget about it a block later. It's totally anonymous, and I work right next to it...

I agree that the Norman development isn't urban renewal, but I don't understand why you consider it garbage. I think it's a great idea if they can pull it off, especially if they can attract some high-quality employers.

I agree that the Norman development isn't urban renewal, but I don't understand why you consider it garbage. I think it's a great idea if they can pull it off, especially if they can attract some high-quality employers.

This thread is supposed to be about Urban Renewal. The Norman development is sprawl. It doesn't add to the urban fabric of Norman or Oklahoma City. If they would have rebuilt the Norman Hospital it would have been better for downtown Norman.

The big problem with this development is that it is not near anything and will cause more sprawl. The entire development is based around cars.

Tell that to the developers of the new lifestyle center proposed out at Memorial and County Line Road..

I disagree. The whole idea is that you will eventually have shopping areas, a convention center, a park, and a corporate area that would all be co-located in one (previously undeveloped) area of Norman. I also disagree that this development is sprawl that is based around cars. Indeed, the development is already accessible by public transportation (it is on the CART route). Likewise, there is enough land there that if the development really takes off, one can envision the emergence of some mixed use projects with both commercial and residential areas.

The mixed use projects you alluded to were SUPPOSED to happen anyway in the first place. These developers snuck one over us with this lie of a "mixed-use" or "new-urbanism" development that would EVER happen at University North Park. The reality is that it's been 4 years since that TIF was passed by voters in Norman, and we were promised a new urbanist project..it was supposed to begin 3 years ago then kept getting pushed back, now it's indefinitely postponed. There were renderings of one, plans of one, and so on.

This was when I was at OU and living in Norman and I went to the polls and voted yes and tried to get others to vote yes as well. What happened? A goddamn strip mall and a John Q. Hammons hotel and nothing else. Yeah, the hotel is great for Norman, but the town center is what I wanted. As it is this project isn't going anywhere. Developers got us again..

/endrant

This Corporate Centre, will be adjacent just north the the 4th largest retail site, in the US, called University North Park, so you tell me if this is not good. Its like a mini Core 2 Shore project in Oklahoma City. Its already under construction, here is link to pdf file if you are interested:http://www.cdfa.net/cdfa/cdfaweb.nsf/fbaad5956b2928b086256efa005c5f78/6cfbd1a7c436ce5f862573fa0074ff56/$FILE/UnivNorthParkTIF.pdf

the project is already 60% complete....

The mixed use projects you alluded to were SUPPOSED to happen anyway in the first place. These developers snuck one over us with this lie of a "mixed-use" or "new-urbanism" development that would EVER happen at University North Park. The reality is that it's been 4 years since that TIF was passed by voters in Norman, and we were promised a new urbanist project..it was supposed to begin 3 years ago then kept getting pushed back, now it's indefinitely postponed. There were renderings of one, plans of one, and so on.



This was when I was at OU and living in Norman and I went to the polls and voted yes and tried to get others to vote yes as well. What happened? A goddamn strip mall and a John Q. Hammons hotel and nothing else. Yeah, the hotel is great for Norman, but the town center is what I wanted. As it is this project isn't going anywhere. Developers got us again..

/endrant

Wrong, the TIF project (University North Park) is 60% complete, groundbreakering for Legacy Park has already begun. I don't know if you been out to the actual location in a while, but if you haven't you need to take a drive through there and see how much it has transformed over the last year or so. After the park, then comes new LifeStyle Center, which will be a 500,000 sqft open air shopping mall.

It may be the 4th largest retail site, but when 75% of the land is parking it really scews the numbers!

It's way too early to judge this development. The best part of the project (the Lifestyle Center/Town Center) was always supposed to come last. The developers didn't "get us again..." Even if the economy hadn't collapsed, it wouldn't have been completed by now. Give it some time.

That isn't the order that was suggested, and there are no signs of them doing the lifestyle center. They said they would get it going in 2007 right after Target was finished, then it was rumored for 2008.. it is now 2010.

They never said, "yes and oh there will be a lifestyle center..breaking ground in 2015." By then I hope you realize that either the whole world will be a lifestyle center or it will no longer exist after 2012. (I'm being facetious of course)

As for University North Park being like a mini Core to Shore...you may be right. That is saying more about C2S though, which I've always been critical of.

The Lifestyle Center was supposed to be Phase 5 of this project...while it's developing more slowly than many might like, I still think it's way too early to pass judgment.

After the park, then comes new LifeStyle Center, which will be a 500,000 sqft open air shopping mall.

Im guessing the mall is at least 5 years from happening.

This thread is supposed to be about Urban Renewal. The Norman development is sprawl. It doesn't add to the urban fabric of Norman or Oklahoma City. If they would have rebuilt the Norman Hospital it would have been better for downtown Norman.

The big problem with this development is that it is not near anything and will cause more sprawl. The entire development is based around cars.

There isn't any development that will make economic sense to developers along I35 near Norman that will be strictly urban in design. It isn't going to happen. This is already a low density area and will be for probably at least 50 years. If you would happy for no development to take place here and only near downtown Norman that would result in much less total development because it's just not economically feasilble. Downtown Norman has had a very nice development in the last 20 years and seems to be doing very well but it is very limited in what additional can be done without destroying what is already there.

Adding on to or rebuilding the Norman Hospital might have had some benefit for downtown Norman but probably not for the hospital which has to look at the bottom line when deciding on expansion plans.

Wrong, the TIF project (University North Park) is 60% complete, groundbreakering for Legacy Park has already begun. I don't know if you been out to the actual location in a while, but if you haven't you need to take a drive through there and see how much it has transformed over the last year or so. After the park, then comes new LifeStyle Center, which will be a 500,000 sqft open air shopping mall.

People in Norman I've spoken to said the development promised all of this "upscale" shopping "unique" to Oklahoma. Hmmm. Kohl's? Wow!

Developers used the old bait and switch, just like they did with the Belle Isle Development.

Developers may be a rung or two below politicians for honesty.

People in Norman I've spoken to said the development promised all of this "upscale" shopping "unique" to Oklahoma. Hmmm. Kohl's? Wow!

Developers used the old bait and switch, just like they did with the Belle Isle Development.

Developers may be a rung or two below politicians for honesty.

So are you saying somehow that Norman would not have allowed development with out promises of "unique" shopping experiences? I don't think so. Norman wants tax dollars whether it's from unique stores or not..

So are you saying somehow that Norman would not have allowed development with out promises of "unique" shopping experiences? I don't think so. Norman wants tax dollars whether it's from unique stores or not..

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about what the developers sold the project to be versus what it is, which is an only slightly nicer version of an anonymous, no-big-deal shopping center.

And yes, I understand how municipal government collects revenues. Thanks for the mini-lecture. But revenue collection is not the only goal.

If, for example, Norman were to hold out for something better, it might realize even greater returns on sales taxes.

Planning and zoning also are strong considerations, and my point is that a lot of folks in Norman I know have told me this project has not lived up to its billing.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm talking about what the developers sold the project to be versus what it is, which is an only slightly nicer version of an anonymous, no-big-deal shopping center.

And yes, I understand how municipal government collects revenues. Thanks for the mini-lecture. But revenue collection is not the only goal.

If, for example, Norman were to hold out for something better, it might realize even greater returns on sales taxes.

Planning and zoning also are strong considerations, and my point is that a lot of folks in Norman I know have told me this project has not lived up to its billing.

If you took this as a lecture it wasn't meant that way. I don't know what you mean though about holding out for something better. How is Norman going to do that? Are they going to tell developers what businesses they can lease to? Planning and zoning has absolutely nothing to do with any of the stores that were opened.

Soonerguru,

Also so you'll know that I'm someone with more than a passing interest in the discussion about Norman, I was born in Norman in 1947 and grew up there. My family owned the land of both sides of I35 just south of Robinson before I35 was built. I spent many hours on a farm tractor there. I follow all development in that area very closely and you wouldn't believe some of the restrictions that were placed on that area in the past before it was finally allowed to be developed.

So are you saying somehow that Norman would not have allowed development with out promises of "unique" shopping experiences? I don't think so. Norman wants tax dollars whether it's from unique stores or not..

It wasn't that we wouldn't have allowed the development, it was that the developers sought public assistance in the form of a TIF. I'm all about using TIFs for good, solid economic development. Now I'm just waiting for the unique development we were promised in the first half of last decade.

Why are people so defensive? I wish this development would be cooler. I'm still waiting hopefully that the project will deliver on its high promises, which would have been a great asset for Norman.

People in Norman I've spoken to said the development promised all of this "upscale" shopping "unique" to Oklahoma. Hmmm. Kohl's? Wow!

Developers used the old bait and switch, just like they did with the Belle Isle Development.

Developers may be a rung or two below politicians for honesty.

The developers did promise "upscale" shopping that would be different than what was already available in Norman. But they promised that that would come well after the SuperTarget, Kohl's, Academy Sports, and other "traffic-generating" shopping had been built across the street and were generating traffic. This was always intended to be a multi-phase project. If the Lifestyle Center never materializes across the street from the SuperTarget, I will be disappointed, too. Again, though, I think people are being prematurely critical. Moreover, while some people may complain that the shopping isn't upscale, as a Norman resident, I am happy that I don't have to drive out of town in order to go to SuperTarget, Pei Wei, or Academy Sports.

Exactly, this is a multi-phase project, that was planned for an 8 year period. So its too early to say that the plan has not lived up to the vision. Over the last two years, all the retail stores, hotel, and conference center that were planned to be built, were built. Now Legacy Park is under construction, so we are in the downturn of the plan, closing in on the last two phases, which is the LifeStyle Center that will include these "upscale" shops. You have to remember, only the upscale shops will come to Norman, that the Norman market will bear. What is considered upscale to a Norman, Ok resident, will be way different from a person who lives on Park Ave. in NYC. So don't expect a Bloomingdales, Louis Vuitton, or a Neiman Marcus store.

It wasn't that we wouldn't have allowed the development, it was that the developers sought public assistance in the form of a TIF. I'm all about using TIFs for good, solid economic development. Now I'm just waiting for the unique development we were promised in the first half of last decade.

Why are people so defensive? I wish this development would be cooler. I'm still waiting hopefully that the project will deliver on its high promises, which would have been a great asset for Norman.

More so, TIF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_increment_financing) is used and most successful for redevelopment of blighted areas. This was not such an area and most definitely would have developed without a TIF (prime Interstate frontage, own exit, etc.).

Lifestyle centers are just another development fad with an expiration date. Mall w/o a roof. Northpark is not special. If I had to choose I would have liked to see something more along these lines: Belmar: Denver (http://www.belmarcolorado.com/directory.php). Notice buildings fronting the street, parking in rear, residential, live/work, sidewalks galore.

Aerial (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=39.7079224488759~-105.07670258108641&lvl=17&sty=h)

http://www.cooltownstudios.com/images/co-lakewood-belmar-dusk.jpg
Source (http://www.cooltownstudios.com/images/co-lakewood-belmar-dusk.jpg)

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/mariacookottawa/Belmar.jpg
Source (http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/mariacookottawa/Belmar.jpg)

I agree that there is no reason suburbs can't make great use of the "Lifestyle Center" concept of retail development. Bel Mar in Denver is brand-new. Those aren't rehabbed buildings. There was a mall that was torn down to make room for this development. The socio-economics of the surrounding area is quite similar to many parts of the OKC metro. Its not a terribly affluent area. Denver metro actually has several similar projects that have ALL been successful. I haven't seen the Norman project but they really missed the boat it sounds like.

I agree that there is no reason suburbs can't make great use of the "Lifestyle Center" concept of retail development. Bel Mar in Denver is brand-new. Those aren't rehabbed buildings. There was a mall that was torn down to make room for this development. The socio-economics of the surrounding area is quite similar to many parts of the OKC metro. Its not a terribly affluent area. Denver metro actually has several similar projects that have ALL been successful. I haven't seen the Norman project but they really missed the boat it sounds like.

Here is link to the TIF project: www.cdfa.net/cdfa/cdfaweb.nsf/.../$FILE/UnivNorthParkTIF.pdf

Here is link to the TIF project: www.cdfa.net/cdfa/cdfaweb.nsf/.../$FILE/UnivNorthParkTIF.pdf

Doesn't work.

I agree that there is no reason suburbs can't make great use of the "Lifestyle Center" concept of retail development. Bel Mar in Denver is brand-new. Those aren't rehabbed buildings. There was a mall that was torn down to make room for this development. The socio-economics of the surrounding area is quite similar to many parts of the OKC metro. Its not a terribly affluent area. Denver metro actually has several similar projects that have ALL been successful. I haven't seen the Norman project but they really missed the boat it sounds like.

Never said they were rehabbed, just that it was redeveloped. Being brand new is the point. Northpark had an opportunity and failed to grasp it. Northpark is nothing more than a mall/strip center with a park.

Never said they were rehabbed, just that it was redeveloped. Being brand new is the point. Northpark had an opportunity and failed to grasp it. Northpark is nothing more than a mall/strip center with a park.


I agree with most of your comment, one thing needs to be corrected: Northpark is nothing more than a mall/strip center with a "Planned Park"

Never said they were rehabbed, just that it was redeveloped. Being brand new is the point. Northpark had an opportunity and failed to grasp it. Northpark is nothing more than a mall/strip center with a park.

I wasn't saying you did. I was stressing that Bel Mar is entirely new construction despite it's old look. There's no reason suburb's can't embrace that idea instead of the sprawling suburban big box crap. I think we're pretty much on the same page.

If Shepherd Mall lost a few more tenants, I'd love to see it turned into this type of Lifestyle Center.

Doesn't work.Ok try this one:

http://www.cdfa.net/cdfa/cdfaweb.nsf/fbaad5956b2928b086256efa005c5f78/6cfbd1a7c436ce5f862573fa0074ff56/$FILE/UnivNorthParkTIF.pdf

So are you saying somehow that Norman would not have allowed development with out promises of "unique" shopping experiences? I don't think so. Norman wants tax dollars whether it's from unique stores or not..

No, Soonerguru is right on this one (even though, yes, the city would like tax dollars from anywhere). That's EXACTLY how it was sold to the voters. We were promised a walkable, new urban development with upscale and unique stores. Simply look back to the news stories about it.

Instead we got concrete palaces, tons of surface parking that's 75% empty 90% of the time, and chain stores. And with all due respect to the posters who said this entire development is not based around cars: you clearly haven't driven through there because that place is about as walkable as the Sahara Desert. There's no need to defend it, it's simply garbage.

On another thread, someone said we need to realize that the "nice part" is still on its way. I would have preferred they attempted to make it all the "nice part." Instead, we've used up an excellent plot of land for another strip mall. And now, the city is considering letting OU out of its contractual obligations because tax revenues didn't pan out as expected. Just another stiffing of the taxpayer.

I wasn't saying you did. I was stressing that Bel Mar is entirely new construction despite it's old look. There's no reason suburb's can't embrace that idea instead of the sprawling suburban big box crap. I think we're pretty much on the same page.

If Shepherd Mall lost a few more tenants, I'd love to see it turned into this type of Lifestyle Center.

Gotcha, my apologies.

Now, the Lifestyle centers they have built off of E470 and North Stapleton are also garbage. Yeah, they are successful now, but they seem destined for failure without a residential/office component. However, Lowry and Stapleton Town Center seem much more sustainable.

Gotcha, my apologies.

Now, the Lifestyle centers they have built off of E470 and North Stapleton are also garbage. Yeah, they are successful now, but they seem destined for failure without a residential/office component. However, Lowry and Stapleton Town Center seem much more sustainable.

University North Park will not fail, planner are smart that is why they are building a corporate office park just north of the retail area. Called University Corporate Centre below is link:

University North Park Corporate Centre @ www.nedcok.com (http://nedcok.com/pages/home_page/commercial_listings/office_listing/dtaylor_facility_3231/facility.xml)

[/COLOR]


I agree with most of your comment, one thing needs to be corrected: Northpark is nothing more than a mall/strip center with a "Planned Park"

Which won't be used because a) it's not a destination park b) no one lives near it.

Which won't be used because a) it's not a destination park b) no one lives near it.

I couldn't agree more. What a wasted opportunity.

Have you guys seen the pond? It is horrible! It is a concrete block circle next to the interstate. NOBODY WILL EVER SIT AROUND IT and it is fenced off!

Another reason it is a horrible development!

Well, obviously there's no convincing some people. We'll see who is right in about 10 years when this thing is actually finished. In the meantime, I will continue to shop at SuperTarget and those tax dollars will stay in Norman.

It will be interesting to see if this will kill off Sooner Fashion Mall.

It will be interesting to see if this will kill off Sooner Fashion Mall.

It won't, in the UNP (Univeristy North Park) project it specifically stated that there will be no stores there that are already in mall, so sooner fashion will keep its unique stores like Dillards, JCpenny, The Buckle etc....

More so, TIF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_increment_financing) is used and most successful for redevelopment of blighted areas. This was not such an area and most definitely would have developed without a TIF (prime Interstate frontage, own exit, etc.).

Lifestyle centers are just another development fad with an expiration date. Mall w/o a roof. Northpark is not special. If I had to choose I would have liked to see something more along these lines: Belmar: Denver (http://www.belmarcolorado.com/directory.php). Notice buildings fronting the street, parking in rear, residential, live/work, sidewalks galore.

Aerial (http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=39.7079224488759~-105.07670258108641&lvl=17&sty=h)

http://www.cooltownstudios.com/images/co-lakewood-belmar-dusk.jpg
Source (http://www.cooltownstudios.com/images/co-lakewood-belmar-dusk.jpg)

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/mariacookottawa/Belmar.jpg
Source (http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/mariacookottawa/Belmar.jpg)

Absolutely right Plansit, although ironically, the above is exactly the kind of development that Norman was promised. A strip mall is what we got. Wowzers. At least the strip mall portion was supposed to have a Dick's Sporting Goods..they canceled so we had to settle for Academy. Again, wowzers.

The reason that a TIF is more successful at redeveloping within EXISTING urban fabric is that it used existing property tax rates and harnesses a percentage or all of that to be used on public improvements in the same area it's collected from. So an existing urban area generates a lot more property tax than a field along a highway. That's why we're going to be waiting a while for the town center portion because it will be reliant on public improvements, to be funded as the TIF generates more income.

Absolutely right Plansit, although ironically, the above is exactly the kind of development that Norman was promised. A strip mall is what we got. Wowzers. At least the strip mall portion was supposed to have a Dick's Sporting Goods..they canceled so we had to settle for Academy. Again, wowzers.

The reason that a TIF is more successful at redeveloping within EXISTING urban fabric is that it used existing property tax rates and harnesses a percentage or all of that to be used on public improvements in the same area it's collected from. So an existing urban area generates a lot more property tax than a field along a highway. That's why we're going to be waiting a while for the town center portion because it will be reliant on public improvements, to be funded as the TIF generates more income.

Spartan, I dont know enough to say if it is or isn't more difficult, but if you look at the Southlake, TX Town Center and the Parker Square developments in Flower Mound, TX or even the development around the EDS headquarters in Plano, TX, they are all quality, successful Town Center developments built from the dirt.

Those are projects that happened organically because they're in the middle of a huge prosperous metropolis with 6 million + people. This (the lifestyle center portion) is a project that is happening because of TIF financing.

Absolutely right Plansit, although ironically, the above is exactly the kind of development that Norman was promised. A strip mall is what we got. Wowzers. At least the strip mall portion was supposed to have a Dick's Sporting Goods..they canceled so we had to settle for Academy. Again, wowzers.

The reason that a TIF is more successful at redeveloping within EXISTING urban fabric is that it used existing property tax rates and harnesses a percentage or all of that to be used on public improvements in the same area it's collected from. So an existing urban area generates a lot more property tax than a field along a highway. That's why we're going to be waiting a while for the town center portion because it will be reliant on public improvements, to be funded as the TIF generates more income.

In looking at the diagram of the proposed development shown in the link provided by G.Walker I don't see anything remotely looking like this development. It shows a typical surburban shopping area with scattered businesses surrounded by large parking areas. I'm not saying that is a good design, just that it is what was proposed.

Which won't be used because a) it's not a destination park b) no one lives near it.

So are you saying that no park areas should have been planned because no one lives near it? There is no where on any of that property with adjacent housing.

Earlywine Park in OKC was built before virtually any housing areas were near it. The park on Meridian south of the OKC airport has almost no one living near but will be a huge asset in years to come. Planning has to be done for years in the future not just for what is near a location now.

I live off of Earlywine. It's not much of a park, but it has the potential to be much, much better.

I live off of Earlywine. It's not much of a park, but it has the potential to be much, much better.

How can you say Earlywine is not much of a Park: Family Aquatic Center (soon to under go expansion), Lighted Tennis Courts with Professional Staff, 2Play Areas, 2 Covered Picnic Shelters, 1 1/4 mile Paved/Lighted Jogging Trail, OKC"S Newest YMCA (not operated by the City, but built on Park Property).

What more do you want/expect from a City Park ?

Earlywine also has 2 golf courses.

Oklahoma City, OK - Oklahoma City Golf (http://www.okcgolf.com/golf/proto/okcgolf/earlywine/earlywine.htm)

So are you saying that no park areas should have been planned because no one lives near it? There is no where on any of that property with adjacent housing.

Earlywine Park in OKC was built before virtually any housing areas were near it. The park on Meridian south of the OKC airport has almost no one living near but will be a huge asset in years to come. Planning has to be done for years in the future not just for what is near a location now.

Here (http://www.cdfa.net/cdfa/cdfaweb.nsf/fbaad5956b2928b086256efa005c5f78/6cfbd1a7c436ce5f862573fa0074ff56/$FILE/UnivNorthParkTIF.pdf) is a nice breakdown of the site plan provided by the city of Norman. Do you see residential anywhere in that plan? Nope.

Here (http://www.cdfa.net/cdfa/cdfaweb.nsf/fbaad5956b2928b086256efa005c5f78/6cfbd1a7c436ce5f862573fa0074ff56/$FILE/UnivNorthParkTIF.pdf) is a nice breakdown of the site plan provided by the city of Norman. Do you see residential anywhere in that plan? Nope.

I have looked at the site plan as I mentioned in a previous post and am quite aware that no residential is in that plan. That doesn't preclude other developers from residential development in nearby areas. OKC is going to build the Core to Shore park in hopes that a lot of residential development will follow nearby. While they do have that shown in the site plans it is up to private investors to follow through. Sometimes the cart does need to come before the horse.

How can you say Earlywine is not much of a Park: Family Aquatic Center (soon to under go expansion), Lighted Tennis Courts with Professional Staff, 2Play Areas, 2 Covered Picnic Shelters, 1 1/4 mile Paved/Lighted Jogging Trail, OKC"S Newest YMCA (not operated by the City, but built on Park Property).

What more do you want/expect from a City Park ?

First of all, the tennis courts charge about $5 an hour. The picnic pavilions are eyesores. The YMCA and kiddie water park are nice. The trails would be nicer if they were landscaped.

My biggest problem with all of OKC's parks, especially Earlywine, and even more so other parks, is the lack of serious landscaping. How the hell do you have a park without landscaping? It's beyond me. It's a joke. It's preposterous.

There is better landscaping to the entrance of our neighborhood than there is anywhere in all of Earlywine Park.

...My biggest problem with all of OKC's parks, especially Earlywine, and even more so other parks, is the lack of serious landscaping. How the hell do you have a park without landscaping? It's beyond me. It's a joke. It's preposterous....

Makes one wonder what we are going to get with the MAPS 3 park