View Full Version : Tattoos: Here we go again.



Moondog
02-12-2005, 04:51 PM
Officials: Make tattoos safe

From staff and wire reports
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House Bill 1519


The bill would:



Prohibit tattooing for anyone under the age of 18.


Require tattoists and tattoo parlors to be licensed by the health department.


Require semi-annual inspections of tattoo parlors.


Limit sales of tattoo equip-ment to licensed professionals.


Allow fines of up to $5,000 for persons convicted of violating the law.




Proponents say ensuring the safety and health of people getting tattoos is the purpose of proposed legislation to legalize and regulate the tattoo industry in Oklahoma, and state health officials and a local businessman say they hope legislators pass the bill this session.

Oklahoma, the only state that outlaws tattooing, should legalize the practice to protect people from diseases transmitted through unsanitary underground tattoos, state health commissioner Dr. Mike Crutcher and other officials said at a news conference Friday.

"We are pleased to support this legislation so we can assure a protected environment for those who seek tattoos in Oklahoma," Crutcher said.

Loyd Samples owns Hellbilly, a local tattoo and piercing establishment. Samples said he agrees wholeheartedly with regulating the industry. He said it is important to ensure cleanliness and prevent disease transmission.

Samples, whose business is inspected by the health department because he is licensed for piercing, said too often people have problems with tattoos given in underground establishments.

"A lot of people come in here asking 'Can you fix this?'" he said. "And I'll say 'Where did you get it done?' and they say they went to a guy's house with a kit."

He said he would like to see laws even more stringent than proposed in the current bill.

A similar bill was killed last year on the Senate floor after narrowly passing a committee. This time the measure may face a tough test in the Republican-controlled House of Representatives. It's scheduled for a committee hearing next week.

"I'm more focused on getting worker's comp and tort reform passed than I am about tattooing," said Rep. Mike Thompson, R-Oklahoma City. "Tattooing was not a big issue for me when I was out campaigning."

The popularity of tattoos boomed in the last decade and has now become commonplace with all segments of society, said Rep. Al Lindley, D-Oklahoma City, who introduced the bill.

"I think a lot of people would be surprised at the number of bankers and lawyers getting tattooed," Lindley said.

With local law enforcement agencies reluctant to use scarce resources to investigate illegal tattooing, Crutcher said some illegal tattoo artists are openly advertising their services in city phone directories.

"This lack of enforcement is not lost on those providing illegal tattooing," Crutcher said.

In 1997, Samples said, he was co-owner of the first Oklahoma shop ever raided, Freaks Mercantile of Tulsa. He said he paid a $100 fine and reopened the next day, and the law as it is written now has loopholes that make it difficult to enforce.

Tigger Liddell, an Oklahoma City native who operates several tattoo parlors in Texas, said the popularity of tattoos is forcing many people in Oklahoma to go to unsafe artists and risk getting a disease through a dirty tattoo needle.

"I know of full-blown underground tattoo studios operating in Oklahoma right now," Liddell said. "Sometimes they're clean and sometimes they're not."

Crutcher said there has been a spike in the number of new hepatitis C infections, a serious disease that can be passed through use of dirty needles. Health officials have documented about 7,000 new cases of hepatitis C cases since 2000, a jump of 78 percent. The exact cause of the increase has not been determined.

Dr. Edward Brandt Jr., a regents professor at the University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center, said the American Medical Association and the Oklahoma State Medical Association both support regulating the practice of tattooing.

"Any time you break the skin with an unsanitary object, you run the risk of infection," Brandt said. "Our view is that regulation and the regulation of appropriate preventive measures is critical."

I took it upon myself to email the Republican controlled State House of Representatives -- the fuddy duddies who'll want to shoot this down. In the subject line I typed "Oklahomans have, can and will catch diseases from Unregulated Tattoo Parlors"

Hopefully that will strike a chord with some of them. The ban on tattooing is not only in violation of the First Amendment, it is a Health Hazard! Here's what I wrote:


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Dear Ladies and Gentlemen of the Oklahoma House of Representatives,

I've never contacted an elected official in my life, but in this case
I am compelled to do so. I understand that there is legislation being
brought up in the senate regarding the legalization and regulation of
tattoo parlors. As a taxpayer and citizen of Oklahoma, I would like
to voice my thoughts on this and I sincerely appreciate the time you
are taking to read this. Thank You.

First of all, I've known several people who have operated makeshift
(and unsanitary)
tattoo parlors out of their basements and living rooms. Illegal
tattooing is going on in Oklahoma. Hepatitis, AIDS, Syphillis --
these are diseases that can be spread by using dirty needles. Oklahoma
must legalize and regulate tattooing so that we can be sure that those
who wish get inked can do it in a clean and
safe environment. Besides, how would you feel if your child or loved
one went to a makeshift tattoo parlor and contracted AIDS from a dirty
tattoo needle? It has happened and will continue to happen without an
intervention from leaders like yourself!

If this law doesn't pass, the basement tattoo parlors will continue to
operate. Tattoo artists will still continue to fight the state in
court, costing the state taxpayers money in legal fees and I suspect
that it could eventually lead to the U.S. Supreme Court. I am no
legal expert, but personally I believe tattooing is a form of
expression and I believe it to be protected under the First Amendment.
Besides, the law we have on the books now is outdated. Tattoos can
easily be removed by lasers. That wasn't possible in the 1950's when
the ban was put into effect.

Many of my peers have left Oklahoma and I've had plenty of chances to leave as
well. People like me are leaving the state not because of the flat
terrain or the unpredictable climate or the poor schools and crumbling
roads. We're leaving Oklahoma because it is a really repressive
place to live! The law banning tattoo parlors is just a little piece
of that repressive Oklahoma mentality that is driving college educated
and even non-college educated young people out of this state!

I love my home state and I would like to see progress on many
frontiers such as Workers Compensation, Tax Reform and improved roads
and bridges. I know you all have other and bigger fish to fry, but
this issue is a health issue and must be addressed! I am also
sensitive to those of you who are opposed to tattooing on religious
grounds. However, not everyone shares those views and those folks
will still get tattooed whether you believe it to be wrong or not.

The health and safety of many Oklahomans are in your hands.

Thank You,
Keith Mooney [quote]

If we really want Oklahoma to progress, we need to change some of the ridiculous laws on our books. We are the only state in the union that outlaws tattoo parlors. Please contact your legislators and let them know that we're sick and tired of this stupid tattoo ban that makes Oklahoma the laughing stock of the country. Regardless of whether you are for or against tattooing, this is truly a health issue.
Keith Mooney

Zoedith
02-12-2005, 07:42 PM
It's a pity how many people get infections and really awful tattoos in these make shift tattoo parlors. I would also like to see them pass this.

mranderson
02-12-2005, 07:45 PM
I do not like tattos and you will never see one on me. However, I DO respect a persons right to get one... Legally. Plus, it keeps Oklahoma money out of Texas.

Midtowner
02-13-2005, 10:07 AM
It's a pity how many people get infections and really awful tattoos in these make shift tattoo parlors. I would also like to see them pass this.

Somehow, many people think that tattoos are somehow immoral. The gentleman that brought this up is a brave man to stand up to the Bible thumpers. This comes up every single year... and every single year, the issue somehow goes away.

I would be surprised to see this go anywhere.

Keith
02-13-2005, 11:28 AM
Thump, thump, thump...yep, we are still here.

Midtowner
02-13-2005, 03:13 PM
Thump, thump, thump...yep, we are still here.

So how is it against God to get a tattoo?

mranderson
02-13-2005, 03:14 PM
So how is it against God to get a tattoo?

Here is another observation. How do you know God himself does not have a tattoo?

Midtowner
02-13-2005, 03:17 PM
Here is another observation. How do you know God himself does not have a tattoo?

It's probably a heart with the word "Mom" on it :D

Keith
02-13-2005, 07:05 PM
So how is it against God to get a tattoo?

I never said getting a tattoo was against God. I was just commenting on how you make fun of Bible Thumpers (I'm used to it now:wink: ). You see, there are many people I know that have tattoos, and some of them are Christian tattoos. I, personally, would not have a tattoo, nor would I want my kids to have one. The thing is, if they want to make tattoo's legal, I have no problem with it. I just want it to be done in sanitary conditions and according to health codes.

Zoedith
02-13-2005, 08:51 PM
Almost everything we do can be construed as immoral to someone else. I know this has come up for many years, but I would still like to see it passed. I think it's a good idea for any business that pierces your skin or may affect your health to be governed by health codes. Obviously, not passing it isn't going to stop it from happening, just make it safer.

Midtowner
02-14-2005, 12:42 PM
I think dancing between unmarried people should be illegal. How about you?

I think sex between unmarried people should be treated in the same manner rape is.

I think tattoos deface God's work (the human body) and it should be illegal for residents of the state to have artificial body markings of any kind.

Medicine should be illegal because it interferes with God's plan for your body and your life. Medicine is man's attempt to do God's work and should be illegal.

It is a travesty that this liberal society lets women leave the home with hats on. Women that insist on showing their hair to individuals that are not married to them need to be stoned.

God meant for his "Chosen People" to possess slaves from neighboring lands. We could solve a lot of labor problems right now if we were to pass laws allowing us, God's people (also known as Oklahomans) to possess heathens from neighboring lands. I need some Texan slaves to do my house cleaning.

Geeze... I sound like some of the members of the Oklahoma congress..

mistress_x123
02-14-2005, 12:48 PM
What I don't understand is that you can buy the tattoo gun and ink any where in Oklahoma but you can not get a tattoo. What do they thing your going to do with the tat gun anyway? (play cops and robber with it) I think it is the person disition if they want a tat or not. I know a lot of people go to Texas just to get the tat. Is it cuz oklahoma is mostly in the bible belt? Ok I have told everyone that I am from Arizonia. So a lot of Oklahoma laws and doings I find wierd (ok maybe I'm the wierd one but oh well, lol).

Midtowner
02-14-2005, 01:00 PM
I've lived here for my entire life and I still am baffled by some of the dumb things we do. I blame a lot of it on our rural-dominated house and senate and the fact that they essentially loot the cities and don't really care about much else.

I blame it on our local politicians who, although they could create an effective coaltion to stop this waste and foolishness, they don't. Instead, they are content to let senators like Shurden embarass the entire state with his ridiculous proposals.

I'll bet cock-boxing gets to a vote of the senate. I seriously doubt tattooing will, and I know school district consolidation has already been dropped for this legislative session... (why does Oklahoma need 540 school districts?)

~~*DarlingDiva*~~
03-10-2005, 03:35 PM
I really think that Oklahoma Is finally coming out of the Dark ages now,the first big thing was the Lottery being voted in.YAY!!But I honestly think that the tatooing being illegal will be done away with as well ,Its justa matter of time.I really also do not see what is SO immoral about them I have 2 myself.I guess my only regrets are the places I got them and what I got them of.I would definitly change all that If I could do it all over.


DarlingDiva

mom2des_n_nate
03-10-2005, 03:44 PM
I think the should make it legal to get a tat done here in Oklahoma and keep that money here instead of it going to Texas (which I am currently planning on getting my first on in a couple months and like most I will be going to Gainsville to do it.)

Midtowner
03-10-2005, 03:44 PM
I really think that Oklahoma Is finally coming out of the Dark ages now,the first big thing was the Lottery being voted in.YAY!!But I honestly think that the tatooing being illegal will be done away with as well ,Its justa matter of time.I really also do not see what is SO immoral about them I have 2 myself.I guess my only regrets are the places I got them and what I got them of.I would definitly change all that If I could do it all over.


DarlingDiva

3 places in the world where tattooing is illegal:

South Carolina, Iran, Oklahoma

Do we really want to be lumped together with those two?

mranderson
03-10-2005, 03:57 PM
3 places in the world where tattooing is illegal:

South Carolina, Iran, Oklahoma

Do we really want to be lumped together with those two?

Try again. Oklahoma is the ONLY state in the nation that outlaws tattoing. All four television news stations in Oklahoma City have reported this.

Midtowner
03-10-2005, 05:04 PM
Try again. Oklahoma is the ONLY state in the nation that outlaws tattoing. All four television news stations in Oklahoma City have reported this.

You're right. As of March 27th, 2004, Oklahoma is the only state left with this dumb law on the books.

http://tattoo.about.com/b/a/075213.htm

Curt
03-13-2005, 08:48 AM
Just to try to reply to what I have read in all these posts, I dont think tattoo's are imoral either in anyway. And who knows, GOD could have one himself, I hope to find out one day:). I have been invited to tattoo parties but would never get one there. I go to a reputable parlor near me that is clean and inspected on a regular basis, and I visited a few of them before getting one, just to look around and see how clean they were. I have a favorite artist I use and stick with her. No they are not for everyone, and mine have meaning, although I would never get anyones name put on me. I hope Oklahoma does lift the ban. Tattoo's on a woman in the right places are very sexy, the girl I am seeing has two, one on her lower back, and one on her foot and to me they are a turn on, she likes mine as well. I guess another point, they are a good conversation starter in some cases.

Karried
03-13-2005, 01:03 PM
I think tattoos are fine. If someone wants one, that is their perogative... I don't think anyone has a right to tell someone they shouldn't get a tattoo or pierce their ears, or wear makeup or wear their hair a certain way.... yes, there may be consequences to these choices but that's the individual's choice, to accept consequences for actions.. (maybe a teen won't get a job because he has a green mohawk for example-but he has to live with the lack of paycheck - not me)

I always get the temporary ones on vacation... right above the bikini bottom on the lower back... permanent, no haven't done that, but I do have piercings -

We used to have a Harley and rode with many people who had tattoos, some of the greatest, nicest people you ever want to meet.

Curt
03-13-2005, 06:06 PM
The temporary tattoo is a good way to see if you really want a permanent one. I am jealous you had a Harley, Karrie, I want one so bad. Harley riders are the friendliest riders I have ever met. I had a Suzuki, but the roads here are so bad it took the fun out of riding so I sold it.

Karried
03-13-2005, 06:38 PM
Boo hoo, our baby had to be sold when we realized that if we both hit the pavement our boys would be parentless! Seriously, we didn't get a chance to ride it as much as we thought we would so it sat in the garage for too long. But, rest assured, we will get another one ... we had a Harley Road King Classic - Luxury Blue, Diamond Ice.. I can't talk about it, it's too sad.

Curt
03-13-2005, 07:50 PM
Sorry you had to sell your bike Karrie, that had to be a heart breaker but I hope you get another one. Everytime I come to town I stop in the Harley shop on Broadway across from The Outback Steakhouse in Edmond and buy a shirt. I want to drive out with a bike oneday. I doubt I will have one living up here because of the limited season and the roads, but rest assured, if I ever move there I will have one.

mranderson
03-17-2005, 07:10 AM
The bill to legalize tattooing passed the seante by a 30-15 vote, and now goes to the house.

The practise would be regulated by the department of health, and ban the practise of tattooing and body piercing people under 18. The ban does not include ears.

If the house passes the measure, then Oklahoma becomes the last (usually is) state to make tattoo parlors legal.

As I have said before. I personally do not like tattoos. However, I respect someones right to have them, and to stay in Oklahoma to gett hem safely.

Another way we can perevent people from going to Texas to spend Oklahoma money.

PamK1
03-22-2005, 03:04 PM
I think tattoos look okay on some people when they are young and they don't overdo it. The problem is that they don't go away. Don't think I wanna see gannie with a sexy tat just above her butt.

But I guess we are allowed to do alot of stupid things, why should tattoos be any different?

I bet it passes this time. The girls at the strip clubs will be so happy!

Midtowner
03-22-2005, 04:15 PM
I think tattoos look okay on some people when they are young and they don't overdo it. The problem is that they don't go away. Don't think I wanna see gannie with a sexy tat just above her butt.

But I guess we are allowed to do alot of stupid things, why should tattoos be any different?

I bet it passes this time. The girls at the strip clubs will be so happy!

You can have tatoos removed by plastic surgeons. More $ changing hands will help the economy.

A better economy means more money for our schools.

Let's legalize tatoos for the children!!!

okcpulse
03-23-2005, 03:07 PM
If the house passes the measure, then Oklahoma becomes the last (usually is) state to make tattoo parlors legal.

Hmmm??? Well, almost. Oklahoma was the 49th state to repeal prohibition in 1959. Mississippi was last in 1965. Oklahoma was the 49th state to legalize liquor by the drink in 1984. Kansas legalized it in 1986 (until then, Kansas enforced a 30% food requirement, no open saloons). Come to think of it, open saloons are still illegal in Utah.

Oklahoma was the 41st state to legalize the lottery. But yes, the last to legalize tattooing. Hell, even Utah allows that!!!!

mranderson
04-22-2005, 03:53 PM
The bill is dead.

Mydalmationis8
04-22-2005, 06:52 PM
Two things: First, tattooing IS legal in Oklahoma. We just call it "Cosmetic Micropigmentation." It's governed by Title 63 of the Oklahoma Statutes (I forgot the section number), which is the Title governing health matters (including drugs). The catch is this: it can only be done by a licensed medical provider and can ONLY be in the nature of permanent cosmetics. Designs with things such as numbers, animals, figures, etc., are expressly prohibited.

Secondly, Oklahoma really ought to pass a law allowing tattooing. Otherwise, someone is going to wise up and get an organization (like the ACLU) to join in a lawsuit against the state for violating the first amendment rights of Oklahomans who want to get a tattoo. In light of the statute which DOES allow tattooing only for cosmetic purposes, I'd say that there is an unconstitutional discrimination on our books. Fighting such a lawsuit could be costly.

okcpulse
04-23-2005, 01:08 AM
Nope, actually, tattooing IS technically legal in Oklahoma, as recently ruled by a judge. Here's the catch- the law as written is virtually useless, as it applies to a "permanent, indeleble mark". Well, this is the 21st Century. Technological wonders never cease. Tattoos can now be removed.

Any town in Oklahoma that has a tattoo removal clinic can openly operate a tattoo parlor, but unregulated and unlicensed, of course. Most tattoo parlors in Oklahoma that are professional operate on their own standards.

Rep. Thad Balkman of Norman stresses that tattooing must remain illegal in Oklahoma, and believes that stricter penalties must be put in places for these so-called "illegal parlors".

I can't wait to meet Thaddy in person, so I can chew his a** out.

Curt
04-23-2005, 06:01 AM
It's just amazing how they can stop you from getting a tattoo, but cant stop illegal aliens from comming across our borders everyday............maybe they should focus on that instead of telling people what they can and cannot do with their own bodies.

windowphobe
04-23-2005, 06:49 PM
Which suggests a solution: everyone crossing a border gets an immediate tattoo. :)

Curt
04-23-2005, 07:45 PM
Which suggests a solution: everyone crossing a border gets an immediate tattoo. :)


Yah..........of a target on their head :)

Mydalmationis8
04-23-2005, 08:28 PM
"Nope, actually, tattooing IS technically legal in Oklahoma, as recently ruled by a judge. Here's the catch- the law as written is virtually useless, as it applies to a "permanent, indeleble mark". Well, this is the 21st Century. Technological wonders never cease. Tattoos can now be removed.

Any town in Oklahoma that has a tattoo removal clinic can openly operate a tattoo parlor, but unregulated and unlicensed, of course. "



Um... No. I do not know of any judge in Oklahoma who has ruled that tattooing is legal because a laser can remove it. If you know the name of the judge and/or the case number, please post it. I'd be eager to read the opinion.
The unattributed opinion sounds like a rumor I've heard a few times. Someone thinks that because a tattoo can (sort of) be removed, it is not permanent. Such reasoning is unsound. It's like saying your arm is not permanently attached to your torso because it could be torn off by farm machinery.
Furthermore, the statute is clear - only licensed medical providers may provide "cosmetic micropigmentation." Any application of a tattoo by an "unregulated and unlicensed" tattoo parlor is still, therefore, an illegal act. It is not "technically legal" unless you're a licensed medical provider specified in the statute.

Subvertia
03-01-2006, 06:12 AM
Leviticus 19:28
You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord.(English Standard Version)

The reason we haven't crawled out of the primordial ooze as a State is because of our lack of liberal voters who haven't served as a driving force, quite frankly, ever.
Just like the lottery, these people in the smaller communities would go to church on Sunday, listen to the preacher talk about sin in gambling, or tattooing, then hit the polls in masses on Tuesday. The Senior Citizen vote, always the majority is changing as we all get older. My grandfather would have never voted for tattoos or the lottery, but my mom will be first in line at either business.

I'm all for it. I have several friends that are artists locally, and am glad they're opening shops and fighting this, I will stand next to them and do my part.

Jack
03-01-2006, 11:34 AM
Tattoo wasn't even a word when the Bible was written. Midtowner can tell you that.

Midtowner
03-01-2006, 12:13 PM
Jack, it's a good thing that the Bible wasn't written in English, or that would actually be a valid argument. In reality though, it's not.

As to Leviticus, if that's the scripture people want to use, it also says that keeping slaves is okay so long as they aren't from neighboring countries, it also talks about kosher foods, that it's sinful to have sex (even with your wife) when she's on her period, etc. Leviticus is one of those books which modern Christians will refer to when they want to pick and choose which rules they want to consider to be moral.

My take on the book is that it is a decent guide to good hygeine in ancient times. Beyond that, it's pretty worthless.

Subvertia
03-01-2006, 12:33 PM
I agree with you Midtowner lol
I believe the quote I heard originally said something to the effect of "not marring the skin or cutting the hair or trimming the beard" and actually, I think it's in Matthew, oh well, I memorized it years ago for maniacal ammunition.
I didn't realize this thread hadn't been a topic in a long time, I just saw it and had to add my opinion! lol

Midtowner
03-01-2006, 12:45 PM
Subvertia, I'm reminded of something Marilyn Ferguson once said: "If the King's English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me!"

(said in jest, of course)

Randy
03-01-2006, 07:55 PM
My take on the book is that it is a decent guide to good hygeine in ancient times. Beyond that, it's pretty worthless.
Again, you are terribly mistaken and misguided. The Bible is God's blueprint for our lives. It is also the #1 selling book and the most widely read.

Saying it is pretty worthless is about as blasphemist as you can get. You are a "catholic" and you think the Bible is worthless? I personally know many catholics, and they would not agree with you.

Just like I was telling everyone else on this forum, you don't care about religion or anyone else's beliefs. All you want to do is debate, and then give your self a pat on the back. Fortunately, the majority of those on this forum don't give you the satisfaction of a debate, and they don't fall in to your trap. Pitiful, simply pitiful.

I did no name calling, nor did I make any personal attacks, as usual. Just stating the facts.

BTW, your tantrum about the Bible took us off topic again (imagine that).

Midtowner
03-01-2006, 08:23 PM
Randy, do you only eat kosher foods?

Do you keep slaves or at least think that it's okay to? The Bible contains extensive instructions on the care, beating, and acquisition of slaves in Deuteronomy, Exodus, and Leviticus.

Exodus states that an individual who works on the Sabbath should be put to death.. do you agree?

Leviticus says that if your sight isn't perfect, you may not "approach the alter of God," so if you need glasses, should you just stay home?

Leviticus also talks about how eating shellfish is extremely sinful (which speaks to my hygeine argument) -- in olden times, when such food wasn't prepared properly or stored correctly, it could be dangerous. It's in the Bible for that reason and has no applicability today.

As to this being off topic, we're discussing how such things in the Bible as a commandment that you should put no marks on your body is probably more of a rule for good hygeine than the description of a sin.

-- and Catholics, just FYI do not generally consider the Bible to be an infallible source of God's word. It's particularly useful and highly persuasive, but historically speaking, there are too many questions as to accuracy in copying, accuracy in translation, and whether whatever 'manuscripts' that exist are even believable. You put your faith in magic, I'll go with Occam's razor any day.

sweetdaisy
03-01-2006, 08:28 PM
My take on the book is that it is a decent guide to good hygeine in ancient times. Beyond that, it's pretty worthless.

I thought you were referring to the book of Leviticus in this statement...

Midtowner
03-01-2006, 09:28 PM
I am referring to Leviticus in that statement.

And then Randy said that the ENTIRE Bible was a guide for life, perfect and relevant in any way.

I then proceded to point out irrelevant passages that he probably doesn't follow himself as well as passages which promote something that today we would consider unconscionable (slavery).