OK, since we've been back in OKC (4/09), May between 150th and 164th has been under construction (it started long before that, though), Western between 150th and 164th has been under construction (it started long before that, though), and now Penn between 150th and 164th is under construction. All are narrowed to one lane each direction, and this is just pathetic, ridiculous, and stupid, since I have seen very little progress on either May or Western (Penn's just getting started, so I'm guessing it'll be a few months before they stop work on it and let it sit for months like the others have been). Does nobody in OKC planning see how f-ed up doing all 3 of these streets between 150th and 164th is?

And why do projects just stop and sit for months? Back when I used to live here, projects did stop and sit for a while, but not for nearly as long as I've seen these sit with no work being done. Is it the contractors, is it the city, or what? Apparently there is no incentive (more money) to get done early and no penalty to take for-f-ing-ever to finish like there is with other projects (but those may not be city projects) in the metro area (and like there is in every other place we've lived/travelled in this country)?

And why would OKC resurface MacArthur between Britton and Hefner (3 lanes of it, anyway) when that section absolutely did not need resurfacing? I can think of probably 100 mile-long sections of OKC streets that need resurfacing before that section did? Wonder what kind of political BS (or city councilman that lives along that stretch) was involved in that little boondoggle? I have to say, though, that they did 2 lanes of scraping and resurfacing in 3 days (it's just awaiting striping) - miraculous! Which makes it even *more* stupid that May and Western are taking forever to finish....

Part rant, part truly wondering why OKC sucks so bad at road construction now? Thanks for reading, and if anybody has any insight on any of this stuff, I'd appreciate reading it...

Oh well, all the wonderful projects in MAPS3 will make me forget all about this kind of stuff, I suppose - I just gotta go to the Central Park and find a parking spot, then avoid all the homeless folks, and hope they have enough money to mow the grass so I can sit on it and dream away..... :LolLolLol

I'm going to chalk this up in the "damned if you do, damned if you don't", category. People want wider roads to support all the new development, but then they don't want the construction that goes with it.

Widening and reconstruction a mile of street typically takes a year. If people wanted it to go faster, then they'd need to live with closing a mile of street, but the public hates that, so construction is forced to take the longer time route. Also, simply milling and overlaying is amazingly easier to do than widening a road, so there's no comparison. OR, the City could have added a couple mills to the property tax or cut the number of projects to pay contractors to hire more people and work faster, but then the citizens would be angry with the higher tax or fewer projects would get done because more money was being spent per project.

I could go on and on with more explanations, but I won't. If people want progress, they need to be willing to take it.

/rant

I'm going to chalk this up in the "damned if you do, damned if you don't", category. People want wider roads to support all the new development, but then they don't want the construction that goes with it.
Construction isn't the problem, it's doing three major roads right by each other all at the same time. That is stupidity, not "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Of course, logic doesn't always come into play (as you exhibited by your post).

Construction isn't the problem, it's doing three major roads right by each other all at the same time. That is stupidity, not "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Of course, logic doesn't always come into play (as you exhibited by your post).

Well, if you don't mind waiting 12 more years to finish out the rest of the area, then I suppose the City could have waited. Funny thing is that the roads are all left open, yet people complain. The first post says, "All are narrowed to one lane each direction". The roads were one lane each direction to begin with...

Or, would you rather they widened further north first, when those roads are less traveled than the ones currently under construction?

I stand by my damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I think its along the lines of chicken entrails and tea leaves..lol

Seriously I think to peppered a entire area with road repair or improvements is maddening.

I think its along the lines of chicken entrails and tea leaves..lol

Seriously I think to peppered a entire area with road repair or improvements is maddening.

Maddening, but necessary. :doh:

Maddening, but necessary. :doh:

True infrastructure is important.
But grrrr..lol

Construction isn't the problem, it's doing three major roads right by each other all at the same time. That is stupidity, not "damned if you do, damned if you don't". Of course, logic doesn't always come into play (as you exhibited by your post).

I wonder what your postings would say if the City had chose to do nothing to these roads, left them narrow, 2 lanes with ever increasing traffic??

Thats the problem do nothing or do something, but they could at least choose less traveled roads, then start on the heavy roads, so we can have alternative routes.

What's wrong with OKC road construction/planning?

To start with, they appear to be doing it in that order.

Having observed, covered a lot of this for more than a decade, I can say Cafe is right - to a point. But there are some times when, quite frankly, it's down to the fact that a perfect human has not been created.
City officials hemmed and hawed when a tv station nailed them last year for tearing up NE 122 east of Broadway, repaved it, and then one year later tore it up again to widen it and repave it yet again.
I doubt there was any ill intent here - just humans being humans.
Then there's another situation - that of awarding jobs to the lowest bidder. And there is at least one contractor I know of that is notorious for starting up a job, then shutting it down while everything is torn up, to move their crew to another job where the deadline is looming, and so on and so forth. And when I see their name on a road project I just know it's going to be a mess for far more time than necessary.

If I could change anything at all in state govt., I think it would be the mindset that often looks at a set of 'lowest and best' bids with a strong, strong bias for lowest.

Just my two cents here:

I am from Amarillo, TX and have been to your great city a few times in the past 5 months. I have really been shocked by how bad some of the highways and roads are in OKC! I even saw large cracks on a highway (sorry, forgot which one - heading south down the west side of the metro to hook up with 240 on the south side).

Growing up, our family did a lot of road trips. My dad would point out how when we would drive back into Texas from any of the bordering states how much better the roads got. I think he was right.

This isn't to puff up Texas - in fact, I really am hoping to move to OKC and am excited about all your city and state has to offer. I am just sincerely curious about the state of some of your roads.

Well, lowest bid should be great, since pre-qualification is required in OKC. The pre-qualification is what needs to be examined in order to ensure that the low bid is the best bid. Maybe someone should look into that policy... someone experienced in researching, getting public information, and reporting on it. It's a mysterious process (at least in my understanding).

Public Works used to operate in compartments, each group did what it needed. Teaching people to coordinate, and changing processes to encourage/require coordination, is very difficult to do.

Lowest bid usually isn't the problem in roadwork, it is the lack of contractors being forced to do the job right instead of letting them do whatever they want. Too many do as little as they can get buy with.

As far as Texas roads, most are pretty crappy nowadays, they have not been able to keep up with growth and when you get out in the rural areas they put that stupid chip seal crap all over instead of real paving and then have to come back and do the same thing over again in a few years, all that does is make contractors make more money. If they would just do it right to begin with (base and paving), they wouldn't have to redo the same stretch over and over.

The Romans did it better..

Just my two cents here:

I am from Amarillo, TX and have been to your great city a few times in the past 5 months. I have really been shocked by how bad some of the highways and roads are in OKC! I even saw large cracks on a highway (sorry, forgot which one - heading south down the west side of the metro to hook up with 240 on the south side).

Growing up, our family did a lot of road trips. My dad would point out how when we would drive back into Texas from any of the bordering states how much better the roads got. I think he was right.

This isn't to puff up Texas - in fact, I really am hoping to move to OKC and am excited about all your city and state has to offer. I am just sincerely curious about the state of some of your roads.

Oh my God Dengar! Now I have to object! I've had the pleasure of driving through Amarillo numerous times over the last few years and there is NOTHING about roads in Amarillo that are in any way better than roads in OKC. My travels through Amarillo have taken me all over the north part of the city (both to visit relatives or in my quest to find any sort of faster route through town to and from the NW) and I have yet to find any roads in the city that are any different from roads here. They are asphalt, they are fairly good, there are cracks, truck grooves and occasional potholes just as there are in OKC.

You've picked out I-44 and the gaping spaces between the concrete slabs by NW 39th st. and used that as some sort of comparison with the entire city. I will admit that in general, highway in Texas are better but when you have a population of 23 million paying gas taxes vs. 3.5 million in Oklahoma, you're going to have significantly more money to spend.

I-40, which used to be awful through western OK is nearly all repaved and lined with cable barrier. No, OK can't afford to rebuild it all in concrete but its just as smooth as the road in TX.

Well, lowest bid should be great, since pre-qualification is required in OKC. The pre-qualification is what needs to be examined in order to ensure that the low bid is the best bid. Maybe someone should look into that policy... someone experienced in researching, getting public information, and reporting on it. It's a mysterious process (at least in my understanding).

Public Works used to operate in compartments, each group did what it needed. Teaching people to coordinate, and changing processes to encourage/require coordination, is very difficult to do.


Maybe one could do an open records search where one examines which contractors go beyond their contractual deadlines the most, and then ask those in charge how much tardiness would it take to disqualify a contractor, and then match such standards against other major cities to see if it's acceptable.... that sounds like a pretty good project for a ... journalist ... I'm wondering if we have any of those left in this town....

I'm not kidding, btw, when I say there is ONE contractor in particular that seems to be rather blatant in how it does road jobs. It's always amazed me because at some point they're just going to be so freaking obvious how they start and stop jobs, and how often they've got to go back and redo the work.

On a totally unrelated matter, can anyone help me with the name of a movie that starred Sean Astin as a college football player?

I'm not kidding, btw, when I say there is ONE contractor in particular that seems to be rather blatant in how it does road jobs. It's always amazed me because at some point they're just going to be so freaking obvious how they start and stop jobs, and how often they've got to go back and redo the work.

On a totally unrelated matter, can anyone help me with the name of a movie that starred Sean Astin as a college football player?
I have noticed that about them in the past...I know my father is glad that he doesn't have to deal with any of them anymore...he rather enjoys retirement.

Cafe, can you share any details about the crosswalks at NW 23 and Broadway and which contractor did the work?

Oh my God Dengar! Now I have to object! I've had the pleasure of driving through Amarillo numerous times over the last few years and there is NOTHING about roads in Amarillo that are in any way better than roads in OKC. My travels through Amarillo have taken me all over the north part of the city (both to visit relatives or in my quest to find any sort of faster route through town to and from the NW) and I have yet to find any roads in the city that are any different from roads here. They are asphalt, they are fairly good, there are cracks, truck grooves and occasional potholes just as there are in OKC.

You've picked out I-44 and the gaping spaces between the concrete slabs by NW 39th st. and used that as some sort of comparison with the entire city. I will admit that in general, highway in Texas are better but when you have a population of 23 million paying gas taxes vs. 3.5 million in Oklahoma, you're going to have significantly more money to spend.

I-40, which used to be awful through western OK is nearly all repaved and lined with cable barrier. No, OK can't afford to rebuild it all in concrete but its just as smooth as the road in TX.

Touche, mug. You are correct, I am comparing the "better" roads in Amarillo (namely, in the west and southwest) with apparantly some of your worst roads. I will concede that point.

My larger question was one of the highways I guess and you did provide what seems to me as a reasonable answer - that there are more folks paying in to the road system in Texas.

Quick question - what is the road construction coming in on I-40 from the west - are they expanding it to three lanes??

No, it was a very poorly maintained road for a lot of years. They have paved most of it from TX to OKC but a lot of it is installing those cable barriers in the center median. I was on it a month ago from Amarillo and it was nearly finished.

I'm not kidding, btw, when I say there is ONE contractor in particular that seems to be rather blatant in how it does road jobs. It's always amazed me because at some point they're just going to be so freaking obvious how they start and stop jobs, and how often they've got to go back and redo the work.

On a totally unrelated matter, can anyone help me with the name of a movie that starred Sean Astin as a college football player?

Rudy

Touche, mug. You are correct, I am comparing the "better" roads in Amarillo (namely, in the west and southwest) with apparantly some of your worst roads. I will concede that point.

My larger question was one of the highways I guess and you did provide what seems to me as a reasonable answer - that there are more folks paying in to the road system in Texas.

Quick question - what is the road construction coming in on I-40 from the west - are they expanding it to three lanes??

I am surprised no one has noticed the fact that ODOT is doing surface rehabilitation on all of Oklahoma City's freeways in addition to reconstruction. I honestly find it nice that many of the highways, notably I-44, are now nice and smooth.

Folks, face it. Road construction projects across the country are never perfect. Take I-45 at mile marker 81. Either two separate contractors were working the project, or a single contractor started at the northern end of the project and the southern end at the same time. Either way, at some point, the surveyors screwed up. The norther stretch under FM 1488 was several inches lower than the southern stretch. Eventually they figured it out and tried to correct it after the concrete was laid, but the dip was causing people to bottom out on the freeway. Eventually, they shaved it down, but it took three years.

Even more, the next stretch that was started in 2005 from FM 1488 to S Loop 336 in Conroe involved the north-bound feeder. About 3/4 mile of the right lane was left unpaved between Crighton and Loop 336 because someone screwed up where a buried gas pipeline was concerned. 12 months passed before the pipeline was moved, which took another 6 months. In the meantime, the feeder was narrowed to one lane, causing a nasty bottleneck because someone didn't have their crap together. It added 15 minutes onto my commute time, and it created a huge safety issue as these lovely Houston drivers would illegally enter I-45 northbound with no regard to freeway traffic, just so they wouldn't have to deal with the feeder.

Texas, it's like a whole other country.

Cafe, can you share any details about the crosswalks at NW 23 and Broadway and which contractor did the work?

OKCPulse is halfway correct. The ramps were originally done by Rudy Construction, however, they were more recently re-done by Nash Construction. Rudy did the brick crosswalks; Nash replaced the brick with stamped concrete.

Can you share the contractor's name that pulls off and then comes back? :smile:

Folks, face it. Road construction projects across the country are never perfect. Take I-45 at mile marker 81. Either two separate contractors were working the project, or a single contractor started at the northern end of the project and the southern end at the same time. Either way, at some point, the surveyors screwed up. The norther stretch under FM 1488 was several inches lower than the southern stretch. Eventually they figured it out and tried to correct it after the concrete was laid, but the dip was causing people to bottom out on the freeway. Eventually, they shaved it down, but it took three years.

Even more, the next stretch that was started in 2005 from FM 1488 to S Loop 336 in Conroe involved the north-bound feeder. About 3/4 mile of the right lane was left unpaved between Crighton and Loop 336 because someone screwed up where a buried gas pipeline was concerned. 12 months passed before the pipeline was moved, which took another 6 months. In the meantime, the feeder was narrowed to one lane, causing a nasty bottleneck because someone didn't have their crap together. It added 15 minutes onto my commute time, and it created a huge safety issue as these lovely Houston drivers would illegally enter I-45 northbound with no regard to freeway traffic, just so they wouldn't have to deal with the feeder.

Texas, it's like a whole other country.

Let me emphisize that my above post was referring to The Woodlands, TX. Sorry for the confusion.

What's wrong with OKC road construction/planning?

To start with, they appear to be doing it in that order.

Heh, thanks, it was inadvertent, but apparently a hidden truth! :doh:


Well, if you don't mind waiting 12 more years to finish out the rest of the area, then I suppose the City could have waited. Funny thing is that the roads are all left open, yet people complain. The first post says, "All are narrowed to one lane each direction". The roads were one lane each direction to begin with...

Or, would you rather they widened further north first, when those roads are less traveled than the ones currently under construction?

I stand by my damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Well, yeah, they were one lane in each direction, but they didn't have ridiculously low speed limits that are enforced even when there haven't been workers on-site for weeks (yeah, almost speed-trap-like, IMO, and why doesn't OKC get with it and make construction zones fines double when workers are present like most other civilized metro areas do instead of 24x7x365? Increased revenue from speeding tickets, perhaps? Yes, I've seen cops sitting on Western between 150th & 164th on a Saturday picking people off that went over 25 MPH, even though there were no workers present on that entire stretch of road), and they werent' blocked for quite a while when there are workers present, making them a *huge* pain to drive on, increasing my commute by almost 25%

Interesting tangents this thread brought up, thanks to all replying, I learned some things I did not know...

I think the city did ok since we are so large and this doesn't happen often. HOWEVER, other drivers driving way to fast is the problem. Just because YOU THINK your vehicle can drive fast doesnt mean everyone else can. Why tailgate people?

Maybe someone should look into that policy... someone experienced in researching, getting public information, and reporting on it.

Larry. And by the end of it we will be annoyed with semantics and know way more about the pre-qualification process than we ever wanted/needed to know. LOL

My own thoughts on the Quail Springs road widening projects..aren't they doing more than just 150th to 168th? I thought that the general obligation bond was for dozens of miles of road widening, mainly in that area.

Personally I don't think we necessarily need to widen these roads. There's nothing AT ALL wrong with 2-lane arterial roads. The main thing is that we just need to maintain them better. Tulsa certainly isn't a good example when it comes to downtown and urban stuff, but their suburban roads are in miraculous shape compared to ours and they usually get more snow/ice. And mudslides. Inside 71st Street the roads are all 4-lane, but between 71st and 131st (or Bixby city limits) the roads are all 2-lane..but very well-maintained. Here are some examples:

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/5286/tulsaroad.jpg

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/391/tulsaroad3.jpg

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/7175/tulsaroad2.jpg
(and they widen at intersections with shopping centers, then go back to being 2-lane roads)

Tulsa doesn't really have traffic problems on these 2-lane roads. And they're so much nicer to drive on than all of OKC's suburban 4-lane roads that are never maintained. I also think they are a lot more attractive..OKC has just laid waste to its suburban landscape, clearing out such wide areas for the 4-lane roads that have just as much traffic as these 2-lane ones.

LOOK -- OKC can still learn a lot from Tulsa's example on pretty much everything EXCEPT downtown. We still need ideas for our suburbs, we are still going to have suburbs, most of our city is going to always live in the suburbs..let's face that fact. There are better ideas for infrastructure than what has become the orthodox here in OKC. For the most part, our suburbs are ugly, honestly.

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/4742/tulsaroads.jpg
The 4-lane roads are red. You've basically got Riverside Drive, Memorial (very congested), Elm Place, and that's it. I think they might be widening Yale? Idk.

Compare to..
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/7567/okcroads2.jpg

And ESPECIALLY far south OKC..
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5774/okcroads1.jpg

Really? OKC needs to realize that there is a negative impact when you create a road that is too wide for the traffic it carries. It's called dead space. And a drain on public resources.

STOP WIDENING ROADS DAMNIT. GOOD GRIEF.

And why would OKC resurface MacArthur between Britton and Hefner (3 lanes of it, anyway) when that section absolutely did not need resurfacing? I can think of probably 100 mile-long sections of OKC streets that need resurfacing before that section did? Wonder what kind of political BS (or city councilman that lives along that stretch) was involved in that little boondoggle? I have to say, though, that they did 2 lanes of scraping and resurfacing in 3 days (it's just awaiting striping) - miraculous! Which makes it even *more* stupid that May and Western are taking forever to finish....
did anyone answer the underlined part, I may have missed it, (lots to read)..I was wondering the same thing..

Asphalt roads need resurfacing every several years or they will deteriorate very quickly. They lightly grind up the surface and reprocess it, then lay the layer on top. I read this in the newspaper last week in the weekly column on Oklahoma roads. It was the answer given by ODOT.

Spartan,

You are certainly free to give your opinion but as someone who does a lot of business in Tulsa I could not disagree with you more.

I actually agree that they are scenic, especially when they go along some of the lager hills (81st and Yale come to mind). But the rest of your argument is not correct.

First, the traffic on several streets south of 71st is terrible! Even worse considering a city the size of Tulsa. It one time took me 5 light cycles to go through a stoplight at 81st and Sheridan. No wreck, no mafunctioning lights, just terrible congestion. Tulsa realizes this and has been trying to fix it for years. Look at this article from the Tulsa World.

Tulsa World: Streets package stuck in traffic (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20080604_16_A1_Tefgto630084&archive=yes)

Also, the simple truth is the roads are not in good condition and not well maintained at all. In fact the picture you selected there are giant cracks in the street! Mingo, a very busy street, literally has no shoulder, no turn lane, and barely any striping. Traffic backs up horrendously partially because the lack of a turn lane or extra lane for traffic to go around a car waiting to turn does not exist. It creates a very dangerous situation that causes cars to be rear ended. I know someone who lives on Mingo and 91st and told me that street alone has been in bad shape since the late 80's.

In fact, most of the areas north of the Creek Turnpike have been built up for a while but the city has chosen to not do anything with those roads, and you can only enjoy the scenery of the roads for so long when stuck in traffic more common in much larger cities.

Would you like to know why Memorial has such bad traffic? Because its the only N/S route in south Tulsa thats more than 2 lanes. And the street itself is in embarrassingly bad shape and way too narrow for the amount of traffic it carries. Think about it this way, NW Expressway has more vehicle volume on it than Memorial but you wouldn't know it because one is 4 lanes and one is 6.

In any event the voters of Tulsa smartly approved a plan to widen most of the streets in South Tulsa, but only after letting them deteriorate to such a horrible point, meaning it will cost the taxpayers a lot more $$ than what it should have the city planned out things better. Is this what you want to happen here? The absolute last place OKC needs to be looking to improve its streets is Tulsa.

I spend about as much time in Tulsa as I spend in OKC (which isn't much these days), and I've never had to sit through more than two cycle of lights. The only one that is somewhat bad is probably Mingo, especially in the mornings between 81st and 71st--which I've always just chalked up to Tulsa Union traffic. Imagine if OKC had high schools with 4-5,000 students and I'm sure they would cause traffic issues too. I agree Memorial should be widened, but most of the 2-lane streets should be preserved in my opinion. I actually enjoy getting around in Tulsa..in fact I love it, especially during the fall when the hills and trees are breathtaking. I don't enjoy getting around OKC because it's true what they say about our suburbs being ugly, and that's coming from someone who lives by Earlywine Park in S. OKC.

The inner north side of OKC has more 4-lanes than far south Tulsa but not nearly as much as far north OKC. I think that's the best balance, where you've got a main wide street (Classen) and several neighborhood thoroughfares and a few 4-lanes here and there. NOT every mile. You probably need more widened arterials than south Tulsa has but not nearly as much as OKC..if Tulsa would widen Memorial to 6 lanes and widen Yale to 4 lanes down to Bixby, a lot of the congestion would be alleviated. And I believe Yale is being widened. I think Memorial might have as much traffic as the NW Expressway, but Memorial is only going to grow in traffic counts because the businesses along it are newer, denser, and more popular..kind of like Memorial in OKC.

To bring up Tulsa Union again, here you have a high school with 4-5,000 students. It's a district the size of Edmond that has ONE high school. Another example of how Tulsa believes more in consolidating their infrastructure and serving as wide an area as possible, which in OKC we like to call "overloading our infrastructure/services." I don't know, but compare the academic scores of Union to Edmond Memorial (about even) and the state championships of Union to pretty much any non-Tulsa area school and I think you'll see that consolidation isn't to be feared. I stand behind saying that Tulsa's consolidated services and infrastructure are doing better than OKC's. It's tough to beat Union, Jenks, and other Tulsa-area schools.

did anyone answer the underlined part, I may have missed it, (lots to read)..I was wondering the same thing..

AFAIK, nobody's responded to that one, except maybe Popsy below you. That reply makes sense in general, but why that stretch of MacArthur, why now, and why in such a hurry?

And in addition to my response to adanial, the reason Memorial is clogged isn't because it's the only wide n/s route but because it is lined with retail all the way through Bixby. It is nothing but office buildings, car dealerships, Wal-Marts, Targets, other shopping centers, and apartment complexes.. all brand-new. And then it connects rapidly-growing Bixby and what is basically the epicenter of Tulsa, the Woodland Hills area. The area around 71st and Memorial has a huge concentration of retail that's a lot bigger and a lot denser than any retail concentrations in OKC, even Memorial Road. Traffic on Memorial is nowhere near as bad as it is on 6-lane 71st Street going through which has grid lock on it at all times of the day (the 2 1/2 mile stretch of 71st between Sheridan and Garnett).

Memorial being jammed has nothing to do with anything aside from the Memorial corridor itself..

did anyone answer the underlined part, I may have missed it, (lots to read)..I was wondering the same thing..

I asked OKC a bunch of questions about projects (mainly 150th-164th/Western-May, but I did ask about this one. Here's what they said:

"This was a part if the stimulus work which was done in various parts of the City. This was selected based on the pavement rating, which is how determine when a work road is needed."

Complete BS if you ask me, there are *hundreds* of miles of road that are in worse shape than that stretch was, but that's the official line.

Got some timelines from OKC about the roads we've been discussing, and just want to let folks know what's going on with them (I'm not sure how accurate the start dates are on May and Western, since we moved back here in 4/09).

Western between 150th/164th start date was July 2008, end date was Sept 2009, actual end date is supposed to be Jan 2010. They blew that one and will continue blowing it for months to come, I suspect.

May between 150th/164th start date was Jan 2009, end date was Jan 15, 2010, actual end date is supposed to be Apr 2010. We'll see.

Penn between 150th/164th start date was Nov 2009, end date is 120 work days after Nov 17, 2009, actual end date is estimated to be Jun 2010. We'll see.

There are no incentives for contractors to finish early like there are in many other municipalities in many other states. Penalties appear weak, if not non-existent - if it's the responsibility of the contractor that it's finished late, OKC could assess liquidated damages and if they have 2 *ongoing* projects in liquidated damages, their bidding privileges would be suspended. So basically, there's no incentive to finish early, and the penalties probably almost never get assessed. Business as usual. Anybody know if this can ever be changed or if anybody that can change it gives 1/10th of a sh**? Remembering why we left so many years ago, sadly. I want it to be better here, but it just seems like entropy has taken hold with a death grip. :icon_evil

I find it somewhat humorous when people complain about the condition of roads in their area, complain about the problems caused when construction start, complain about how long construction takes, complain about how much construction costs', complain-complain-complain.

I find it somewhat humorous when people complain about the condition of roads in their area, complain about the problems caused when construction start, complain about how long construction takes, complain about how much construction costs', complain-complain-complain.

Why do you find it humorous?

Why do you find it humorous?

Because you complain about the road condition. Then when it's fixed, you complain about the construction, the time, all of that.

In Yukon, they started widening Mustang Rd, N of I-40, and Czech Hall, S of I-40 at the same time. The intersection at Vandement and Ranchwood has been completely closed for almost a year. It's a pain because you have to take detours clear around the entire town. It's aggravating yes, but necessary.

I get backed up every morning going to work because of the I-40 East construction past I-44, and going home because of the I-40 West construction by El-Reno.

Leave earlier to get around the construction, and quit complaining. If you want the roads fixed, there will be inconveniences.

The problem with the area of 150th/164th is not the construction, it's all of the housing, and retail that has went up in that area in the past 5-10 years. 5-10 years ago, that area was nothing. It's called growing pains.

Why do you find it humorous?


Because to me, hearing a bunch of people whine is humorous, these are the people that are never happy and whine about any and every thing.

Road construction is much more technical then people understand, progress takes time and I would rather see them take the extra time to do it correctly.

Because to me, hearing a bunch of people whine is humorous, these are the people that are never happy and whine about any and every thing.

Road construction is much more technical then people understand, progress takes time and I would rather see them take the extra time to do it correctly.

Ha, that's assuming they do it correctly - big assumption. And the reason people "whine" is that contractors suck and do *not* do a good job in the timely manner they're expected to here. They do (sometimes) in other places, so it *can* be done. If there were a way to change the way road construction is done (or contracted, more to the point), I'd work my ass off to change it to make it more efficient, less good-ole-boy, etc. So I'm not just whining for the sake of it, I'm going to try to find a way to make it work (yeah, it's gonna be a losing battle, but I'll try for a while, until my brains are coming out of my forehead due to beating my head against the brick wall of OK politics).

Because you complain about the road condition. Then when it's fixed, you complain about the construction, the time, all of that.

In Yukon, they started widening Mustang Rd, N of I-40, and Czech Hall, S of I-40 at the same time. The intersection at Vandement and Ranchwood has been completely closed for almost a year. It's a pain because you have to take detours clear around the entire town. It's aggravating yes, but necessary.

I get backed up every morning going to work because of the I-40 East construction past I-44, and going home because of the I-40 West construction by El-Reno.

Leave earlier to get around the construction, and quit complaining. If you want the roads fixed, there will be inconveniences.

The problem with the area of 150th/164th is not the construction, it's all of the housing, and retail that has went up in that area in the past 5-10 years. 5-10 years ago, that area was nothing. It's called growing pains.

OK, first off - it's *not* necessary to do construction on 3-4 major roads in one area all at the same time. Unless there's some kind of budget or other logistical reason (which there may be that we're not privy to), don't **** up 90% of the roads in such a small area, it's common sense, but who knows what the reasons are.

Second - the "detours around the entire town" of Yukon you mention are completely ridiculous, and I'm guessing fairly unnecessarily inconvenient, but as we'll never know what the engineers think and why they do things they do, it'll be a mystery as to why they ****ed up so much all at once.

Third - I *don't* want the roads fixed in the 150th/164th area. We live here out of necessity, not out of loving the area. We had 3 days to find a place to rent back in 4/09 when we decided to move back due to getting a job, our first choice fell through, we had no other options in the short time we had to find a place, so this was a very reluctant choice, but the only one we had. We plan to leave this god-forsaken part of town as soon as we can and get into a real house down in the middle of the city.

Fourth, I haven't been complaining about the conditions of the road around here at all, you must have me confused with someone else. And the reason I complain about the time is the discrepancy between the scheduled end time and the actual end time.

Western between 150th/164th start date was July 2008, end date was Sept 2009, actual end date is supposed to be Jan 2010. They blew that one and will continue blowing it for months to come, I suspect.



OK, gotta make a correction here, they apparently actually finished Western and all 4 lanes are open between 150th and 164th, my wife tells me. So they overran it by 4 months (*only* 28%)...

May between 150th/164th start date was Jan 2009, end date was Jan 15, 2010, actual end date is supposed to be Apr 2010. We'll see.


So May finally appears to be finished, traffic signals are operating at May/164th now, so I'm assuming it's done. Delay of 6 months if you stick with the original end date, 150% of the project time. Delay of 2 months with the revised end date, 115% of the revised project time.

Penn between 150th/164th is going to blow out the end of the schedule for that project too...

Shoot, want to talk about a long, drug out project? NW 23RD between PENN and I-44!!! How many years have they been working on that same stretch of 2-lane road???


What's so funny is how the city will tear something up, build it like-new, then rip the newly finished project back up the next day because their water pipe, which has been patched a hundred times, runs right under that section of road!

They had just finished building one of the new sidewalk ramps at the end of my street on the corner, you know the new fancy ones...then not a week later, they ripped half the thing out! Just busted it all up and ripped it out! Now they are having to build it back again!

Pathetic.

Shoot, want to talk about a long, drug out project? NW 23RD between PENN and I-44!!! How many years have they been working on that same stretch of 2-lane road???


What's so funny is how the city will tear something up, build it like-new, then rip the newly finished project back up the next day because their water pipe, which has been patched a hundred times, runs right under that section of road!

They had just finished building one of the new sidewalk ramps at the end of my street on the corner, you know the new fancy ones...then not a week later, they ripped half the thing out! Just busted it all up and ripped it out! Now they are having to build it back again!

Pathetic.

I remember something similar when I lived in Mustang. Ramps were built at a major intersection in conjunction with a new building on the corner. The ramps were built so that the people using them would have to go out into the traffic lanes instead of the crosswalks. Needless to say, they had to be torn out and replaced.

When coming back from dinner at Ryan's (Fire Mountain), when I got back on I-40 eastbound, noticed from MacArthur to Portland those metal(?) strips that are embedded in the roadway in 2 sets of parallel lines (think they are intended to keep the concrete slabs intact or something) are missing in multiple places and the concrete around the missing device is crumbling (becoming pothole like). Seems like these were put in in the past year or so and are already falling apart. Does anyone have any info?

When coming back from dinner at Ryan's (Fire Mountain), when I got back on I-40 eastbound, noticed from MacArthur to Portland those metal(?) strips that are embedded in the roadway in 2 sets of parallel lines (think they are intended to keep the concrete slabs intact or something) are missing in multiple places and the concrete around the missing device is crumbling (becoming pothole like). Seems like these were put in in the past year or so and are already falling apart. Does anyone have any info?

Larry,

Although I disagree with using the road reinforcements, I will say (in all fairness) that in other areas of the city (like where I live off I-44 @ penn square), they are not cracking and coming apart. I would say it's the s***ty concrete mixture they used out there on that portion of I-40.

That section of I-40 was a total contracting disaster, and the effects of cheap bids are showing, aren't they??? Only here would you see that shoddy work signed off on! On some other thread, I was bi***ing when they got "finished" with it, but others seem to think it's great work. I mean, come on, the road looked like crap after they were done and it had cracks sealed all over the place!

I say this because I think that if we are going to spend money on this stuff, we should do it right and not give a penny to crappy contractors who lowball the bid and sell us garbage. The interstates are one of visitors' first impressions of OKC and I'd like them to think highly of our city.

I agree completely and haven't noticed it elsewhere. Yet.

Some resurfacing/improvement projects are done very well and others...not so much. The City has the same problem. Don't know how many hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions are just poorly spent on shoddy work that should have never been approved (certainly never use them again, but we do). Then it has to be redone again at additional cost.

Just keep our fingers crossed and hope the new I-40 lasts until they have the old crosstown torn down. Before it needs significant repairs. Wouldn't be at all surprised if within 5 years of it opening, we are spending the $1M/year on maintenance we are currently spending on the old crosstown.

Already commented on this thread, but allow me to repeat. You don't have to 4-lane every single mile street in OKC's 600 square miles.

I agree completely and haven't noticed it elsewhere. Yet.

Some resurfacing/improvement projects are done very well and others...not so much. The City has the same problem. Don't know how many hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions are just poorly spent on shoddy work that should have never been approved (certainly never use them again, but we do). Then it has to be redone again at additional cost.

Just keep our fingers crossed and hope the new I-40 lasts until they have the old crosstown torn down. Before it needs significant repairs. Wouldn't be at all surprised if within 5 years of it opening, we are spending the $1M/year on maintenance we are currently spending on the old crosstown.

I know this is an old thread, but I must stress that the new construction methods used for today's new freeways will result in very little maintenance. Lake Hefner Parkway (LHP for short) is now 21 years old and the only maintenance done to that stretch is restriping and installing cable barriers. Broadway Extension from NE 63rd to Memorial also requires little maintenance.

Concrete surface freeways built prior to 1990 in Oklahoma involved reinforced concrete over a packed base, forcing the slabs to settle over the years. White topping, or reinforced concrete over an asphalt surface results in the asphalt stabilizing the base so that concrete doesn't settle.

I have a thought regarding this issue. I live up in NW OKC and the construction is maddening. 74/Portland is being prepped for widening from 150th - 178th, May between 164th and 178th, Penn, and every major crossroad from 192nd down to 164th is being widened. I understand this NEEDs to be done; however, May is going on 1 year where that road sat for months on end without work being done on it. It is now finally paved and just needs paint, but it has been sitting 2 weeks just for that.

NOW (my rant), May is down to 30mph for the construction zone, and cops are ALWAYS sitting on that road tagging people left and right. I've seen 3 people pulled over up there at once many times. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason for this. The road is all but finished. It just needs freaking paint! I know we have to be safe driving in the work zones, but the amount of traffic patrols up there is suspiciously high...especially considering crime is rampant up there because there are no cops on patrol (go figure).

Now, the other problem. My mile section is surrounded on 3 out of the 4 sides by construction. FINISH A JOB BEFORE YOU MOVE ON TO THE NEXT!!!! I know the state provides incentives for finishing jobs early, so why can't the city?? It is freaking ridiculous!!! Will I be happy when it is finished? You bet! But things could be a lot better if things had been planned a little more before they started digging up the roads.

I think if anyone is going to say we don't have enough police officers, then we need no speed traps in the city. That's a waste of a police officer. It doesn't stop speeding other than temporarily, nor does it stop crime. I'm not sure patrolling stops much crime either, but it does allow officers to respond to crime.

Betts - That makes no sense. Law enforcement isn't linear, e.g., you fight the most severe crime until it is under control and then move to the next less-severe, and so on. You have to fight all of them all of the time.

Besides, police officers aren't interchangeable: You don't take a traffic cop with radar gun and assign him to a murder investigation any more than you'd take a detective and park him next to a school zone.

Betts - That makes no sense. Law enforcement isn't linear, e.g., you fight the most severe crime until it is under control and then move to the next less-severe, and so on. You have to fight all of them all of the time.

Besides, police officers aren't interchangeable: You don't take a traffic cop with radar gun and assign him to a murder investigation any more than you'd take a detective and park him next to a school zone.


This makes no sense. Comparing cops to detectives is like comparing apples to oranges. Any cop can run traffic. If there is a slow day, then they can choose to run traffic and write as many tickets as they please. In an area this size, I doubt there are many days that are slow enough to warrant 3 cops watching a one mile stretch of road way out on the edge of the city.

I also disagree with your first statement. You have to fight crime throughout the ENTIRE city limits. You don't just put all your cops in the middle and work your way out. Now, there are certain areas that require a higher density of cops because of the amount of calls that come through, but that doesn't mean you just ignore the other areas. OKC is huge. You need A LOT of cops to patrol the area. You probably need less on the outskirts than in the middle. Now, why are there 2-3 cops on a one mile stretch of road at the edge of the city working traffic? You've effectively taken the resources required to effectively patrol/respond to crime in other areas. It took the police 30 minutes to respond to a home intrusion, but if you happen to be going 45 in a 40, you bet your butt you will be stopped. It makes no sense.

AND, to make things worse, one of the officers that actively patrols out here has stated that he works overtime to work traffic in our area. How much sense does that make? He is making double pay for punishing hard working people who just want to get home at the end of the day. Maybe they should restrict that and add another cop on patrol for the same amount of money.

Back to the topic at hand, construction sucks! It is a nuisance, but it is required. At the same time, it needs to be done in a timely manner. There is one company doing the work on our mile section and they are not efficient at all. The city needs to punish inefficiency and reward efficiency. They need to plan their jobs better, and they really need to think about WHAT needs to be widened. Is it really efficient to make every road a 4 lane? The major N-S roads? Yes. The E-W roads...probably not.

Most cities don't have divisions devoted entirely to traffic duty like OKC has had as long as I can remember.

Most cities don't have divisions devoted entirely to traffic duty like OKC has had as long as I can remember.

Yes they do. Most large cities have specific divisions for traffic just like we do.

Yes they do. Most large cities have specific divisions for traffic just like we do.
Most places that I know of have not had an officially designated "Traffic" division, all the uniformed officers performed traffic operations but that wasn't their main task. In the 80's I knew some OKCPD "Traffic" officers, their main role (90%) was writing traffic tickets, some of them hated it and would rather had been on patrol duty. Dallas didn't have a specific division when I lived there (91-93, I had 5 DPD officers living in my complex), Austin doesn't and Denver and Aurora don't have them like OKCPD has or had in the past.