View Full Version : OKC profiled on History Channel's "Gangland"...



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gracefor24
12-17-2009, 07:51 PM
The South Side Locos were profiled. Pretty interesting stuff. They focused quite a bit on the shooting at Crossroads Mall. I know it's not necessarily what we want everyone to see about our city but I'm glad people will be aware of what's going on. Many in our city are in pretty big denial about our gang problems. Maybe this will spur some more discussion.

OUGrad05
12-17-2009, 08:40 PM
The South Side Locos were profiled. Pretty interesting stuff. They focused quite a bit on the shooting at Crossroads Mall. I know it's not necessarily what we want everyone to see about our city but I'm glad people will be aware of what's going on. Many in our city are in pretty big denial about our gang problems. Maybe this will spur some more discussion.

Gang problems in OKC are terrible, have been for two plus decades, it would be nice if people would wake up to that fact.

gracefor24
12-17-2009, 08:46 PM
Gang problems in OKC are terrible, have been for two plus decades, it would be nice if people would wake up to that fact.

I'm surprised the PD went on the show. They are typically slow to call anything gang violence and don't like to highlight these facts. They did give some props to the good work of the Gang Unit. The problem is 12 guys don't have much of a chance against estimated 4,000 gang members.

BoulderSooner
12-17-2009, 10:12 PM
Gang problems in OKC are terrible, have been for two plus decades, it would be nice if people would wake up to that fact.

Terrible would be a little bit of a stretch

Spartan
12-17-2009, 10:45 PM
The gang graffiti on the south side isn't just on every available wall of hospitals, businesses, and offices.. now there's literally graffiti all over people's homes that are along busy roads.

adaniel
12-17-2009, 11:20 PM
Yeah I saw the episode tonight (It on right now if anyone is interested). I definitely agree that while OKC isn't Watts or Southeast Houston in terms of gang levels, there is a pretty heightened level here for a city of our size. It would be shortsided to say that the booming hispanic population this area has seen in the past decade as a culprit. OKC is a huge trafficking point for drugs coming out of TX and CA on I35 and I40 respectively, and gangs have been fighting for control of it since the 70's.

I'm not familiar with issues on the southside, but I will say on my way to work on NW 10th street I've definitely noticed a lot of tagging lately, especially between 44 and Western. Are the gangs starting to migrate north now?

soonerguru
12-17-2009, 11:29 PM
They're rerunning it right now and I'm tuned in.

This show seems to exaggerate -- and glamorize -- the gangs on the Southside. This is just the kind of pub these gangs want to strengthen their rep. Thanks a lot, History Channel.

On a lighter note, I'm getting a kick out of how the narrator calls OKC "The OKC."

Spartan
12-17-2009, 11:40 PM
"What's up this is OKC every day! Suicide every day yo! [pow pow]"

What could we have done to get them to not do this and air this? Seriously, we need to try and get our city's gangs on board with this whole "The New OKC" message.

hoya
12-17-2009, 11:42 PM
I'm actually a little tickled by it. It makes us look badass. :D

It really is exaggerating the problem, though. I grew up on the south side. Live here now. I've never had problems with gangs, and I know some live in this neighborhood. I have never felt threatened.

LakeEffect
12-18-2009, 05:18 AM
I'm actually a little tickled by it. It makes us look badass. :D

It really is exaggerating the problem, though. I grew up on the south side. Live here now. I've never had problems with gangs, and I know some live in this neighborhood. I have never felt threatened.

I agree on the badass side. But I don't necessarily think it's exaggerated. Gang violence isn't typically a random crime, so most of us on here would never feel threatened, even though it's a bad problem.

A few months ago, a co-worker that lives in Putnam Heights Historic District had a bullet enter his home at 8:00 am. He watched two groups of 4 guys basically unload on each other. All those guys and all that was hit was a car and a house... but a house with an 8-yr old, who, if she hadn't been watching TV, would have seen a bullet land in her bedroom.

The gang problem is out there, but it's not well known.

hipsterdoofus
12-18-2009, 07:42 AM
Its ok guys - maps3 will fix the gang problem.

fuzzytoad
12-18-2009, 08:03 AM
Its ok guys - maps3 will fix the gang problem.

I was wondering about that, especially since any talk about current criminal activites prior to the MAPS vote was met with severe criticism.

hipsterdoofus
12-18-2009, 08:11 AM
I was wondering about that, especially since any talk about current criminal activites prior to the MAPS vote was met with severe criticism.

The idea is that the gangs and the vagrants will battle it out and kill each other off trying to claim the new park as their turf :bright_id :LolLolLol

kmf563
12-18-2009, 08:11 AM
Typical reactions.

The OKC has been called that since I can remember by gang members. Or The 405.

The gang problem is huge here. Ask someone who works on our Specialized Gang Task Force. Or someone in their family who worries about them on a daily basis. It's been bad since I can remember.

For those of you who think it's not - I invite you to hang out at the Crip Wash for a night. Or watch a 13 year old girl get initiated into one. Visit the Southside Loco's "hood" on a Friday night. I have done all of the above. It's as real as the homeless problem downtown that is still being overlooked. Yes, we do have people sleeping under bridges at night.

If anyone remembers back in the late 80's there was a huge gang riot between the East coast vs. West coast. Guess where they met?? In the middle! That would be...oh yeah, OKC! There were huge gang fights in the streets of neighborhoods, drive bys every night, gang wars in public places such as Frontier City. This isn't anything new, it's just getting some awareness. And is growing!

Btw...I'm pretty sure gang members aren't sitting around waiting to be the headlining act on the History Channel...that isn't really what does it for them.

SoonerLakers
12-18-2009, 08:27 AM
If anyone remembers back in the late 80's there was a huge gang riot between the East coast vs. West coast. Guess where they met?? In the middle! That would be...oh yeah, OKC! There were huge gang fights in the streets of neighborhoods, drive bys every night, gang wars in public places such as Frontier City.


Yeah, I remember seeing Biggie Smalls and 2-PAC riding the log ride together.

kmf563
12-18-2009, 08:36 AM
Yeah, I remember seeing Biggie Smalls and 2-PAC riding the log ride together.

They seriously closed the park one night. Helicopters everywhere. About 100 cops. Guns drawn...from both sides. Parents and kids running and screaming. It was crazy. I think only 3 people got shot, but still. I met 2 people whom I later saw on America's Most Wanted.

Don't ask why I was there or how I know all of this. It's amazing I am still alive today. I've lived through a lot! Interestingly enough, gang members are what saved me growing up and kept me from harm. I was one of the few people considered a middler. That's one who doesn't have to pick a side or actually join the gang to be protected.

OKCMallen
12-18-2009, 09:08 AM
Typical reactions.

The OKC has been called that since I can remember by gang members. Or The 405.

The gang problem is huge here. Ask someone who works on our Specialized Gang Task Force. Or someone in their family who worries about them on a daily basis. It's been bad since I can remember.

For those of you who think it's not - I invite you to hang out at the Crip Wash for a night. Or watch a 13 year old girl get initiated into one. Visit the Southside Loco's "hood" on a Friday night. I have done all of the above. It's as real as the homeless problem downtown that is still being overlooked. Yes, we do have people sleeping under bridges at night.

If anyone remembers back in the late 80's there was a huge gang riot between the East coast vs. West coast. Guess where they met?? In the middle! That would be...oh yeah, OKC! There were huge gang fights in the streets of neighborhoods, drive bys every night, gang wars in public places such as Frontier City. This isn't anything new, it's just getting some awareness. And is growing!

Btw...I'm pretty sure gang members aren't sitting around waiting to be the headlining act on the History Channel...that isn't really what does it for them.

"Huge"?

Not once has a gang impacted my life in Oklahoma City, ever.

"Huge" is a stretch. Let's not be overdramatic.

OKCMallen
12-18-2009, 09:09 AM
They seriously closed the park one night. Helicopters everywhere. About 100 cops. Guns drawn...from both sides. Parents and kids running and screaming. It was crazy. I think only 3 people got shot, but still. I met 2 people whom I later saw on America's Most Wanted.

Don't ask why I was there or how I know all of this. It's amazing I am still alive today. I've lived through a lot! Interestingly enough, gang members are what saved me growing up and kept me from harm. I was one of the few people considered a middler. That's one who doesn't have to pick a side or actually join the gang to be protected.

Why were you there and how do you know all of this???

You sound like you have a very interesting and unique perspective.

kmf563
12-18-2009, 11:03 AM
Why were you there and how do you know all of this???

You sound like you have a very interesting and unique perspective.

Growing up in my neighborhood was rough. For many reasons. But about this topic - I was in 3rd grade the first time I was offered drugs from a local gang of kids. All around my neighborhood kids had to join a gang to survive. If you didn't pick a side, you were beaten. Some even killed. I was very quiet growing up. No opinions. I just smiled and kept my head down.
Once a group of girls had to send someone to the ER as part of their initiation. I was chosen as the person to be jumped. It was a neighbor kid that stepped in and saved my life. Had he not pulled me under his protection, I would be dead. Because of my sex, my race, and size I was a prime target for fights. One of the things required of the gang members was (I don't know if this is still true or not) to get a letter of their gang name tattooed across their chest for every level they had achieved. If you aren't aware, gangs are set up like military with one main captain, then rankings follow below. My neighbor had all the letters of his Blood gang tattooed. He was next in line to take over their group. My choice was either to accept his protection and hang out with them or be killed by them. I chose to befriend him. Because of this choice, I saw a lot of things that most people don't see on a daily basis. One of my boyfriend's father was killed in a drive-by shooting. He was a preacher. I've played craps on a piece of cardboard in a back alley. I've had a gun in my face. My neighbor protector ended up going to prison for murder. I was eventually of age and moved away. After a couple of years, I was able to move on and they left me alone. I haven't looked back. And no, it's not 3 or 4 kids. Or even 300 or 400. It is massive. An entire life you probably wouldn't be aware of mallen. But then - have you been impacted by any ravers? Those kids come in millions too.

There are many things about our city that the average person isn't aware of. Not because they are ignorant, but because unless it personally impacts them - they just aren't aware. I'm glad you haven't ever been impacted by this. That is a blessing. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't a problem.

One side of it you could look at is the political side. Who wants to advertise their state as being a huge gang, drug, or sex trading state when they are trying to "upgrade" it and get things like MAPS approved and pull people in from other states?? It's not something politically to be proud of. It's not something to brag about. Oh yeah....those other things are huge problems too.

MGE1977
12-18-2009, 11:24 AM
Growing up in my neighborhood was rough. For many reasons. But about this topic - I was in 3rd grade the first time I was offered drugs from a local gang of kids. All around my neighborhood kids had to join a gang to survive. If you didn't pick a side, you were beaten. Some even killed. I was very quiet growing up. No opinions. I just smiled and kept my head down.
Once a group of girls had to send someone to the ER as part of their initiation. I was chosen as the person to be jumped. It was a neighbor kid that stepped in and saved my life. Had he not pulled me under his protection, I would be dead. Because of my sex, my race, and size I was a prime target for fights. One of the things required of the gang members was (I don't know if this is still true or not) to get a letter of their gang name tattooed across their chest for every level they had achieved. If you aren't aware, gangs are set up like military with one main captain, then rankings follow below. My neighbor had all the letters of his Blood gang tattooed. He was next in line to take over their group. My choice was either to accept his protection and hang out with them or be killed by them. I chose to befriend him. Because of this choice, I saw a lot of things that most people don't see on a daily basis. One of my boyfriend's father was killed in a drive-by shooting. He was a preacher. I've played craps on a piece of cardboard in a back alley. I've had a gun in my face. My neighbor protector ended up going to prison for murder. I was eventually of age and moved away. After a couple of years, I was able to move on and they left me alone. I haven't looked back. And no, it's not 3 or 4 kids. Or even 300 or 400. It is massive. An entire life you probably wouldn't be aware of mallen. But then - have you been impacted by any ravers? Those kids come in millions too.

There are many things about our city that the average person isn't aware of. Not because they are ignorant, but because unless it personally impacts them - they just aren't aware. I'm glad you haven't ever been impacted by this. That is a blessing. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't a problem.

One side of it you could look at is the political side. Who wants to advertise their state as being a huge gang, drug, or sex trading state when they are trying to "upgrade" it and get things like MAPS approved and pull people in from other states?? It's not something politically to be proud of. It's not something to brag about. Oh yeah....those other things are huge problems too.


Thank you for your post. I grew up white in NW/SW Albuquerque, NM. I too was what you describe as a "middler."

I cherished a lot of the people who wouldn't be on a person's "people I'd like to meet in a dark alley" list as friends and neighbors.

It seems to me that a good population of this city chooses to turn a blind eye to situations simply because they are "not affected." This makes no sense to me. These are the people generally unaffected by anything remotely bad or more heinous than a city-wide vote passed in confrontation to their own.

Someone stated that they live on the southside, and have never been affected by gang violence. I would challenge a person who claims such to limit their field of view to the areas north of SW. 74 and South of NW 23, and then East by almost any mileage. These are areas rarely encoutered in ones travels acrossed the Broadway Extension, or in commute to work.

There would seldom be reason for many on this site to frequent these areas, as in fact, there are no Lattes vended, or Iguana lounges in which to sit.

LakeEffect
12-18-2009, 11:41 AM
"Huge"?

Not once has a gang impacted my life in Oklahoma City, ever.

"Huge" is a stretch. Let's not be overdramatic.

Just because it hasn't impacted your life doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist and isn't bad.

nik4411
12-18-2009, 12:02 PM
Yea, I've been to some of the rougher hoods around OKC. They are definitely there.
but anywhere you have people, there will be gangs. All across the world.

soonerguru
12-18-2009, 12:41 PM
Someone stated that they live on the southside, and have never been affected by gang violence. I would challenge a person who claims such to limit their field of view to the areas north of SW. 74 and South of NW 23, and then East by almost any mileage. These are areas rarely encoutered in ones travels acrossed the Broadway Extension, or in commute to work.

There would seldom be reason for many on this site to frequent these areas, as in fact, there are no Lattes vended, or Iguana lounges in which to sit.


I think you're trying to suggest this site consists of a bunch of latte-sippin' yuppies, and for the record, you may be right. However, a lot of us do have experience living in bigger cities with more dangerous neighborhoods in them. But, to your point, Iguana Cafe is south of NW 23rd Street, so it falls within the area you describe, as do numerous places where one can be served java in town (at least one of which had its own very meandering thread).

KMF563, I have almost always enjoyed your posts here, and I'm fascinated to learn more about your life (as far as that is possible on a public forum).

Spartan
12-18-2009, 01:09 PM
I still think it's bad for our city's image. I propose using the MAPS3 use taxes to fund a sensitivity training program in order to get our gangs, particularly the SouthSide Locos, on board with OKC's new friendlier, more big-city pro-tourism message. Perhaps we could contact the gang's leader and get him to change the name of the gang to Big League City Locos .. that sounds terrifying.

LOL

nik4411
12-18-2009, 01:12 PM
Ha ha Spartan. I'm sure they would be down for that!

kmf563
12-18-2009, 01:16 PM
KMF563, I have almost always enjoyed your posts here, and I'm fascinated to learn more about your life (as far as that is possible on a public forum).

Thanks sonnerguru!! I love the "almost" always part. lol. Honestly, I have gone back and read some of my posts and thought to myself...oh boy...I should have just kept my mouth shut on that one. But I guess I have bad days like everyone else. I will say that I have become pretty comfortable with everyone on here and forget most of you don't know me in person. Some of my posts sound a little more harsh than intended. But I enjoy learning about you too.

kevinpate
12-18-2009, 01:17 PM
It's true there are pockets like CBD, BT, Midtown and other pockets of peace and even affluence in the inner city. True of most cities I imagine.

It's also true there are a whole lot of big arse pockets such as described by kmf563, indeed, way more than many seem to realize.

All cities have an ugly underbelly if one takes the time to look. I don't live in OKC, never have, but between personal and professional interests, I have ventured into both the cream and the sludge of the city, at high noon and late night.

Batman and Spidey could stay rather busy for a spell if they were real and in OKC.

With respect, if one's mind gives doubt to the assertion, I hope you never learn how wrong, even deadly, that doubt truly is.

kevinpate
12-18-2009, 01:19 PM
... Perhaps we could contact the gang's leader and get him to change the name of the gang to Big League City Locos .. that sounds terrifying. ...

I thought the city council held a trademark on Big League City Locos?

Spartan
12-18-2009, 01:28 PM
I thought the city council held a trademark on Big League City Locos?

See, and before this GangLand series, I would heavily bet on that gang getting featured on the History Channel over real gangs. I mean who wants to hear about violence and drugs and crime when instead they could watch a series that's all about Downtown Rotary Club members disagreeing on the different city committees they serve on and tons of back hand deals and closed door meetings and political leverage. I mean that actually sounds like something made to film..

MGE1977
12-18-2009, 01:58 PM
I think you're trying to suggest this site consists of a bunch of latte-sippin' yuppies, and for the record, you may be right. However, a lot of us do have experience living in bigger cities with more dangerous neighborhoods in them. But, to your point, Iguana Cafe is south of NW 23rd Street, so it falls within the area you describe, as do numerous places where one can be served java in town (at least one of which had its own very meandering thread).


I'll agree with you, everyone has a past and any one of those is worthy for lessons learned and experience gained. I'm not putting mine above others, I feel that mine was as character building as probably anyone else on this thread likewise does.

What got my ire up was the point made by a few that they were unaffected by such things. Mostly if you are unaffected it is because you choose to be, and if you choose to be, most likely it is because you are privileged to be amongst those who have the choice.

As someone else wrote: because it isn't seen, doesn't mean it isn't happening. My Iguana remark was I think still appropriate while not geographically consistent with my intent. There are in fact places within places in this city, microcosms, be they areas of retail or residential streets that preserve their integrity, but around them, areas that cannot help but be overrun.

I like Latte's myself. I should have used a bullet and not buckshot when I posted my last remarks. I am merely defending my point of view as someone who at times in my life, hadn't the choice.

Architect2010
12-18-2009, 02:49 PM
I've lived in the inner southside my whole adolsecent life and I never encountered gang problems. I know of their existence. I know people who are associated with them. I see sudden rises in graffiti and then nothing. But never have the Southside Locos affected me personally.

That episode did blow it out of proportion slightly. It is a problem. But not as hugely horrific as they showed it to be.

MGE1977
12-18-2009, 02:54 PM
I've lived in the inner southside my whole adolsecent life and I never encountered gang problems. I know of their existence. I know people who are associated with them. I see sudden rises in graffiti and then nothing. But never have the Southside Locos affected me personally.

That episode did blow it out of proportion slightly. It is a problem. But not as hugely horrific as they showed it to be.


Where, may I ask, did you live? Or at least from what school did you graduate?

native405
12-18-2009, 04:18 PM
yeah i saw the episode tonight (it on right now if anyone is interested). I definitely agree that while okc isn't watts or southeast houston in terms of gang levels, there is a pretty heightened level here for a city of our size. It would be shortsided to say that the booming hispanic population this area has seen in the past decade as a culprit. Okc is a huge trafficking point for drugs coming out of tx and ca on i35 and i40 respectively, and gangs have been fighting for control of it since the 70's.

I'm not familiar with issues on the southside, but i will say on my way to work on nw 10th street i've definitely noticed a lot of tagging lately, especially between 44 and western. Are the gangs starting to migrate north now?

the hispanic population is not the culprit . I have lived on the southside of oklahoma city all my live and gangs have been here way befor hispanic where here.

hipsterdoofus
12-18-2009, 08:12 PM
the hispanic population is not the culprit . I have lived on the southside of oklahoma city all my live and gangs have been here way befor hispanic where here.

If you read what he said, I believe he said that they are NOT the culprit, but rather the fact that OKC is a major crossroads.

OUGrad05
12-18-2009, 09:15 PM
Terrible would be a little bit of a stretch

No it isn't, I have family that was ocpd gang enforcement and did national talks on gangs, OKC is bad, not the worst but pretty bad...

MikeOKC
12-18-2009, 11:02 PM
Why tiptoe around the facts? I certainly did for YEARS as a cultural lefty. Those days are over after personal experience and heavy-duty research. So, I'll say it like it is and call me a "racist" all some of you want: This is a BLACK and HISPANIC problem which, of course, impacts all of us. Are there whites in gangs? Yes. A tiny, tiny number.
This is a cultural war. They fight each other on weekends and they ALL prey on white people, and destroy our neighborhoods, during the week. Somebody has to say it.

MikeOKC
12-18-2009, 11:19 PM
Before somebody asks...

http://ojjdp.ncjrs.gov/pubs/96natyouthgangsrvy/images/fig_11.gif
Department of Justice chart.
http://ojjdp.ncjrs.gov - Survey Results: Gang member demographics, Race/Ethnicity (http://ojjdp.ncjrs.gov/pubs/96natyouthgangsrvy/surv_6c.html)

Most white gangs are rural and many times hispanics are counted as whites. The actual percentage according to DOJ estimates is around 4% white gang membership. The 14% is a weighted average. You can read more at the link or just Google this stuff. There's no denying this. There's also no putting on a pretty face for "diversity" or "multiculturalism" purposes. Ask California how diversity's working out.

Spartan
12-18-2009, 11:36 PM
Honestly the Hispanic gangs aren't that bad.

Fastfwd
12-19-2009, 06:04 AM
I watched the show…….pretty interesting.

I took like Penn down from that old club that was in the church on Classen one night back in the 90s…..I was in a Jeep with the top off and got down to about 59th Street and some little punks shot at me from their car and took off. I was frightened and furious at the same time. I had a new Glock model 22 at the time and it gave me something to really think about when practicing with it.

Hate to say it, but I just don’t care much for the south side………my Grandma used to live down there and it’s really taken a dive since she was there. I’m personally not too pleased about the ‘Hispanic’ invasion of this city or country for that matter. Hearing that whites will be in the minority by mid century doesn’t delight me in the least to be as nice as I can be about it.

Seems like they could have featured a lot more instances of gang violence than the Crossroads Mall shooting though. The way they kept going back to it made it seem like that was the only instance of gang violence ever experienced here.

LakeEffect
12-19-2009, 06:16 AM
the hispanic population is not the culprit . I have lived on the southside of oklahoma city all my live and gangs have been here way befor hispanic where here.

Here's where we get into semantics. The Hispanic population is not all gang members, but a majority of the gang members are (statistically) Hispanic.

Being Hispanic won't make you a gang member... it should give people cause to wonder why there is such a high rate of gang activity within Hispanic and African-American cultures. What can we do to make them feel as though they are worthwhile and belong without having to be in a gang?

MGE1977
12-19-2009, 07:00 AM
This thread has taken a turn for the worst.

Whites the minority by the turn of the century? Seriously? This is just ignorant. Who cares?

I've been a minority for the majority of my life, (growing up in Albuquerque - you need a separate phone book practically just for the Garcia, Sanchez, Griego, Romero etc. entries.)

Do some of you feel that this will impact the United States, or Oklahoma City for that matter? These people have come here for the very same reasons that many of our culturally diverse ancestors did - betterment not just of self, but for future generations. Does it seem practical that their values are so dramatically different than one's own that they will change the American way of life, anywhere? More likely for them to assimilate I would propose.

As a matter of fact, in my line of work, many of the most pleasant and respectful people to work for are those minorities, while in contrast some of the most slovenly indolent wastes of space are in the "majority" of Oklahoman culture thus far.

Whether or not the majority of gang members are of black/hispanic backgrounds is irrelevant. As stated in a previous post, gangs are epidemic, and have been since the first immigrants came across.

I take issue with the misuse of this forum for comments made in previous posts which speak to race as the causitive agent for gangs. Desperation, and protection are the impetus. Gang units acrossed the nation and in OKC are highly skilled and tactically responsible groups that enforce law, while giving wide birth to cultural differences and respectful communication with gang affiliates.

It is ridiculous to blame race for gangs, regardless of statistics. It would be similarly ridiculous to blame the abuse of prescription drugs in high school and college populations on white kids. People do what they due for bad reasons, sometimes peculiar reasons, and though statistically numbers point to classes or races, the fact remains that it is situational influences which determine these points.

OUGrad05
12-19-2009, 07:11 AM
Honestly the Hispanic gangs aren't that bad.

I've got several family members currently in law enforcement, all of them say the hispanic gangs scare them the most...black gangs make more noise, aka more public beatings, shootings, etc but the hispanic gangs are the most ruthless...

The hispanic gangs seem to be the most scary for my friends and family in law enforcement : dunno:

Fastfwd
12-19-2009, 07:11 AM
This thread has taken a turn for the worst.

Whites the minority by the turn of the century? Seriously? This is just ignorant. Who cares?



It’s a major news story……

whites minority - Google News (http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=whites+minority)

Ignorant? LOL…..pull your head out maybe?

It pisses me off. I’m white and I want to keep a white majority. Go figure that one. Mexicans have a country of their own. They can stay there as far as I am concerned.

OUGrad05
12-19-2009, 07:15 AM
This thread has taken a turn for the worst.

Whites the minority by the turn of the century? Seriously? This is just ignorant. Who cares?

I've been a minority for the majority of my life, (growing up in Albuquerque - you need a separate phone book practically just for the Garcia, Sanchez, Griego, Romero etc. entries.)

Do some of you feel that this will impact the United States, or Oklahoma City for that matter? These people have come here for the very same reasons that many of our culturally diverse ancestors did - betterment not just of self, but for future generations. Does it seem practical that their values are so dramatically different than one's own that they will change the American way of life, anywhere? More likely for them to assimilate I would propose.

As a matter of fact, in my line of work, many of the most pleasant and respectful people to work for are those minorities, while in contrast some of the most slovenly indolent wastes of space are in the "majority" of Oklahoman culture thus far.

Whether or not the majority of gang members are of black/hispanic backgrounds is irrelevant. As stated in a previous post, gangs are epidemic, and have been since the first immigrants came across.

I take issue with the misuse of this forum for comments made in previous posts which speak to race as the causitive agent for gangs. Desperation, and protection are the impetus. Gang units acrossed the nation and in OKC are highly skilled and tactically responsible groups that enforce law, while giving wide birth to cultural differences and respectful communication with gang affiliates.

It is ridiculous to blame race for gangs, regardless of statistics. It would be similarly ridiculous to blame the abuse of prescription drugs in high school and college populations on white kids. People do what they due for bad reasons, sometimes peculiar reasons, and though statistically numbers point to classes or races, the fact remains that it is situational influences which determine these points.

And we have a winner, this is an excellent post...

Upbringing, parental involvement, various situtions when someone is growing up all influence the direction they head as they get older...and sometimes you just get a "bad apple" that spins off and goes into drugs or gangs etc...

MGE1977
12-19-2009, 07:29 AM
It’s a major news story……

whites minority - Google News (http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=whites+minority)

Ignorant? LOL…..pull your head out maybe?

It pisses me off. I’m white and I want to keep a white majority. Go figure that one. Mexicans have a country of their own. They can stay there as far as I am concerned.


Good grief. Listen George Wallace called and said: "Hey tell that jackweed to chill, I recanted already...."

Since when is it ours to keep, whites I mean? Aren't we immigrants? Didn't whites effectively import most or all of the Blacks while almost simultaneously inhibiting the natives of the continent so that a white majority that you now enjoy could be established? Aren't the trades now to surfeit with Mexicans who are actually willing to work for a living and not collect cheeze?

As I stated before, immigration is more for future generations than current. The kids of those who come over will reap the benefits of their sometimes illegal, and almost always culturally abused forefathers. The progression may take many generations to see fruition. Generations that have obviously past for you and I as we type on our computers with our coffees on a Saturday morning.

You are ignorant, and increasingly moreso with every word you type about protecting the "white majority." 300 years homie, I'd say that was a pretty good run.

Fastfwd
12-19-2009, 07:51 AM
You are ignorant, and increasingly moreso with every word you type about protecting the "white majority." 300 years homie, I'd say that was a pretty good run.

Mmmmm, no, I would say that in this situation you are the more ill informed if you insist that I am ignorant for stating what is widely reported as fact.
No, 300 years isn’t good enough…… I don’t have kids, but if I do I want them to enjoy the same majority that I have…..and their kids….. it’s not rocket science why I would desire this to be the case.

As it stands now – luckily I will likely be in the majority until near the end of my life at least.

I’m not ignorant for not prescribing to your belief that whites should just give up and let the Mexicans (or where ever they are from) overrun the boarders and flood the country. I’ve got a few choice words that I could use to describe you, but I’m going to keep them to myself and I suggest you let it go as well.

I’m not particularly fond of the powers that be for allowing the invasion…. In my opinion, instead of being lazy, why aren’t we spreading the need for immigrant labor across the globe? I think it cheapens our country to just sit back and let whoever comes across the boarder set themselves up to become citizens.

Now, wasn’t this thread about the ‘Hispanic’ gang problem in OKC….. yeah, let’s get back to talking about what a wonderful group they are. Do tell what a magnificent contribution they make to ‘The OKC.’

MGE1977
12-19-2009, 08:07 AM
Mmmmm, no, I would say that in this situation you are the more ill informed if you insist that I am ignorant for stating what is widely reported as fact.
No, 300 years isn’t good enough…… I don’t have kids, but if I do I want them to enjoy the same majority that I have…..and their kids….. it’s not rocket science why I would desire this to be the case.

As it stands now – luckily I will likely be in the majority until near the end of my life at least.

I’m not ignorant for not prescribing to your belief that whites should just give up and let the Mexicans (or where ever they are from) overrun the boarders and flood the country. I’ve got a few choice words that I could use to describe you, but I’m going to keep them to myself and I suggest you let it go as well.

I’m not particularly fond of the powers that be for allowing the invasion…. In my opinion, instead of being lazy, why aren’t we spreading the need for immigrant labor across the globe? I think it cheapens our country to just sit back and let whoever comes across the boarder set themselves up to become citizens.

Now, wasn’t this thread about the ‘Hispanic’ gang problem in OKC….. yeah, let’s get back to talking about what a wonderful group they are. Do tell what a magnificent contribution they make to ‘The OKC.’

White? C'mon man, at best grey.

Gangs do not contribute really anything on a Macro-level, on a Micro-level I think a case can be made for protection, income, family etc. Is this the ideal way to make a living, probably not. Is it A way to make a living, yes it is.

Somewhere along the lines, we are descended from a group of people who banded together, formed a community and in those communities paths were taken that lead us where we are today. Simple right?

Why is this any different? I don't think we are "lazy" as a nation for having relatively open borders. It seems to me that you are yelling to "raise the drawbridge" just after you squeaked in. Not cool man. Not cool.

As for your choice words, I chose ignorant, your move....

Fastfwd
12-19-2009, 08:32 AM
How about punk for coming on the internet and starting in name calling and making personal attacks on somebody who you don’t even know? I’m pretty sure you can make your arguments without personal attacks and name calling.

I don’t give a rat’s ass how ‘cool’ you think it is for my will to keep a white majority for myself and if I do ever happen to have children of my own if not for the children of my family.

The fact of the matter is that you referred to me being ignorant for referencing a widely reported news story. So, suck it up and acknowledge who the ignorant one is in that scenario. Keep your ‘open boarders’ preaching for somebody who cares.

I make no claim of being a history or American government buff, but my quick Google on the topic brings up:

Immigration Act of 1924 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924)

So, yeah, um, apparently quotas on immigration have been used before and from what this article says they were in place until 1965. So, I guess the ‘drawbridge’ has been pulled up before our time and in my opinion couldn’t be pulled up again quickly enough. My opinion.

MGE1977
12-19-2009, 09:34 AM
How about punk for coming on the internet and starting in name calling and making personal attacks on somebody who you don’t even know? I’m pretty sure you can make your arguments without personal attacks and name calling.

I don’t give a rat’s ass how ‘cool’ you think it is for my will to keep a white majority for myself and if I do ever happen to have children of my own if not for the children of my family.

The fact of the matter is that you referred to me being ignorant for referencing a widely reported news story. So, suck it up and acknowledge who the ignorant one is in that scenario. Keep your ‘open boarders’ preaching for somebody who cares.

I make no claim of being a history or American government buff, but my quick Google on the topic brings up:

Immigration Act of 1924 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1924)

So, yeah, um, apparently quotas on immigration have been used before and from what this article says they were in place until 1965. So, I guess the ‘drawbridge’ has been pulled up before our time and in my opinion couldn’t be pulled up again quickly enough. My opinion.


1965 is the only bit of pertinent information in that entire post. What else happened in 1965? Not to worry, I'll Wiki it also....

Midtowner
12-19-2009, 09:50 AM
Don't worry Fastfwd, whites will enjoy a quasi-majority for years to come because they still possess the lion's share of this nation's wealth. That might not last forever though, at least anecdotally speaking, recent immigrants and their families are MUCH hungrier for the American Dream than our entitlement-mentality 'natives' (in quotes because I don't mean American Indians).

Every wave of immigration has brought with it an element of organized crime. Organized crime sort of naturally springs up in communities which are deprived of equal economic opportunity. There's a whole different dynamic of risk vs. reward with regard to crime in a gang, particularly some of the more established ones which can offer protection and safety even in prison. Fortunately though, as those immigrant communities are absorbed into society, the formerly dominant criminal interests become further and further marginalized when legitimate economic participation in society becomes possible or the distinctions which caused that immigrant community to be separate from society in the first place slip away (as happened with the Irish).

I think immigration is just fine. I'm not threatened by it. It's great for the economy. The future of our economy relies on small businesses and immigration is one of the things making small business possible. If you're worried about shifting political realities, maybe it's time to shift your own political reality to acknowledge that we live in a constantly changing world and there's not a damn thing you can do about it.

soonerguru
12-19-2009, 10:15 AM
I’m white and I want to keep a white majority. Go figure that one. Mexicans have a country of their own. They can stay there as far as I am concerned.

Well sorry pal. Maybe you should immigrate to Canada or Scandinavia or something. That way you can see a lot of caucasian people and feel safer. Or maybe you should move to Arizona and join an armed militant group. Either way, you are an embarrassment to the board and this city.

Just because you're afraid of brown people and you're raising your kids that way doesn't mean you should embarrass yourself by admitting your brown people fear in public. It makes you seem very cowardly and lame.

Laramie
12-19-2009, 11:23 AM
The History Channel will be replaying that Gangland documentary:

Oklahoma City Southside Locos Sunday, December 20th 6:00pm CST.

smooth
12-19-2009, 11:24 AM
The History Channel will be replaying that Gangland documentary:

Oklahoma City Southside Locos Sunday, December 20th CST.

OK. We have the date and the time zone, why not the time?

Laramie
12-19-2009, 11:30 AM
OK. We have the date and the time zone, why not the time?

Sorry, is this a chat room? :LolLolLol

The History Channel will be replaying that Gangland documentary:

Oklahoma City Southside Locos Sunday, December 20th 6:00pm CST.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

kmf563
12-19-2009, 11:49 AM
Oh for pete's sake! It is NOT a race issue. Just because the gang I was protected by was mostly black does not mean there weren't any whites involved. People just get so freaking ignorant sometimes! Do people just lose their sense of knowledge and choose to believe the media hype? Do you just decide it's too much effort to find out all sides of the story before lumping it into a race/gender/age/income excuse?

Maybe you all should go watch gangland. ALL of the episodes. It's pretty interesting actually. They cover the mafia, all areas of gangs, all races of gangs, and all eras. It has always been a problem.

White people most certainly have gangs. Hello heard of the KKK???? GANG. There are white supremist groups all over this country and a big headquarters right here in grand ole central OKC. What do they do? Well, they don't wear sheets on their heads anymore. They have symbols and colors to show which group they belong to. They go around and promote white power and rob people to support themselves. They jump non whites. They take a territory and call it theirs, not allowing any other race to join. GANG.

MGE - I've been to the NE side of the Sandias in NM. There are some areas that I don't know if I would feel safe during the day! I bet you did see a lot growing up. It can be scary being a minority, but I think it taught me a lot and I have more empathy towards others and situations. Most people don't have that.

MGE1977
12-19-2009, 12:43 PM
Oh for pete's sake! It is NOT a race issue. Just because the gang I was protected by was mostly black does not mean there weren't any whites involved. People just get so freaking ignorant sometimes! Do people just lose their sense of knowledge and choose to believe the media hype? Do you just decide it's too much effort to find out all sides of the story before lumping it into a race/gender/age/income excuse?

Maybe you all should go watch gangland. ALL of the episodes. It's pretty interesting actually. They cover the mafia, all areas of gangs, all races of gangs, and all eras. It has always been a problem.

White people most certainly have gangs. Hello heard of the KKK???? GANG. There are white supremist groups all over this country and a big headquarters right here in grand ole central OKC. What do they do? Well, they don't wear sheets on their heads anymore. They have symbols and colors to show which group they belong to. They go around and promote white power and rob people to support themselves. They jump non whites. They take a territory and call it theirs, not allowing any other race to join. GANG.

MGE - I've been to the NE side of the Sandias in NM. There are some areas that I don't know if I would feel safe during the day! I bet you did see a lot growing up. It can be scary being a minority, but I think it taught me a lot and I have more empathy towards others and situations. Most people don't have that.


True on all accounts, but anyone's history can teach when the end goal is betterment. Lots and lots of places are good places to be from. And with that, my afterschool special concludes. Talk at you all later.

MikeOKC
12-19-2009, 12:47 PM
Obviously, the schools have well indoctrinated many to see any discussion on race as somehow evil. The big difference in immigration today and years past is the lack of interest in assimilation. Today, it's all about protecting identity. Look, facts are facts, no need to run from them when they fly in the face of our oh so cool "diversity is our strength" tolerance mantras. How can anybody say it's not about race when they look at the statistics? Talk to the cops! Tell them it's not about race. Tell the prison wardens it's not about race! We can all look the other way and play nice by saying "It's not about race." But most of us? We know better. Actually, even though those saying it's not about race know very well that's exactly what it is. Nobody is that blind.

kmf: There's a difference between "gangs" and "extremist groups."

SoonerDave
12-19-2009, 01:13 PM
The South Side Locos were profiled. Pretty interesting stuff. They focused quite a bit on the shooting at Crossroads Mall. I know it's not necessarily what we want everyone to see about our city but I'm glad people will be aware of what's going on. Many in our city are in pretty big denial about our gang problems. Maybe this will spur some more discussion.

For one thing, it should spark caution.

Friend of mine who works in law enforcement, and deals with this type of activity on nearly a daily basis and was involved indirectly with the subject production, says what Gangland showed in their documentary was a grossly sensationalized and misleading portrayal of gang activity in the OKC area. Said it leaves a frustratingly incorrect perception about OKC in general and gang activity in particular.

Take it for what its worth, but the information he gave was more detailed than is reasonable to post here, and I hold him to be an entirely credible, no-nonsense person.

kmf563
12-19-2009, 01:30 PM
kmf: There's a difference between "gangs" and "extremist groups."

Tell THAT to the gang task force, wardens, police officers, and the people running the gangland show. Sorry bud, white supremists are considered gangs. Maybe on a national level they may be considered extremist groups.

Soonerdave - where may I ask is your friend a cop? As in what area? I know lots of cops and they would tell you the exact opposite. But not publicly. Nor would they announce to the public what a jump we've had in the black market sex trade for children. Or how much of an issue domestic violence is.

I'm not saying I think OKC is horrible and ridden with low life scum. I'm just saying that along with the good comes the bad. We, like every other city, have bad issues and things that need to be addressed rather than turning a blind eye to and pretending it doesn't exist. I don't think one person is gullible to believe we are a bright and shiny city without problems. These things are here and unless we keep working to control them, they will grow along with our city's growth.

Laramie
12-19-2009, 01:50 PM
Agree!