The four new Rescue Ladders that were being ordered to replace the four that are 15yrs old have been canceled. So much for public safety being number 1 priority. That didn't take long. We are getting a hockey team though!

Guess I just don't see the connection. BTW, when do tickets go on sale?

Is this in some part a tradeoff re the previous concern for pending manpower reductions that went away?

Private vs. Public, don't let the union robots control you

Goolge this:

non sequitur.

Shouldn't ladders have a longer life than just 15 years anyways?

I'd like to hear more of an explanation. Maybe something from the Chief's office?

Guess I just don't see the connection. BTW, when do tickets go on sale?

NewsOK (http://www.newsok.com/city-council-clears-the-way-for-proposed-ahl-team/article/3425238?custom_click=lead_story_title)

I think it's kind of ironic that the new team will be an Edmonton Oilers franchise.. that means I will have to hate them, no matter what.

And what does "Prodigal Hockey" even mean? That sounds like a great name for an alternative punk band. Is Bob Funk the new front man for a punk band? The name works, the face doesn't..he'd have to lose the cowboy hat and go all Leon Russell, but a man of his age could easily make it happen. He might have some very special insight on the typical "down with the man" message that "Prodigal Hockey" would scream, especially considering for most of his life, he has been "the man."

Oh sorry, what were we talking about? Sorry I didn't mean to distract from incoherent anti-MAPS angry bantering (hey, didn't we already have the election?).

Mack1520, The Mayor said public safety was the number 1 priority. Now we are giving a yet to be named hockey team 4.5 million in improvements for the Myriad and not replacing fire apparatus.

Kevinpate, I believe it is.

Metro, there is one full time employee at the union hall and a couple of administrative staff. I don't think anyone is controlling anybody.

Onthestrip, the industry standard for fire apparatus is 10 years frontline and another 10 as a backup. They rarely last that long when the lowest bid vehicle is purchased. Although we have had some really good luck with E-one from Florida. We got screwed by Boardman with the last 2 sets of fire engines we bought from them, they were crap. We did score a great deal from E-one recently, we were able to purchase a demonstrator ladder from them for about $160,000.00. Which was about half price for a great back up rig. Our last 4 fire engines cost a little over $400,000.00 and the ladders that were canceled were going to cost approx $675,000.00. Right now we have 7 fire engines and 3 ladder companies at the shop. OCFD has 35 fire engines, 13 rescue ladders, 1 medium rescue unit, a underwater rescue/recovery vehicle w/ 2 boats and 2 donated SeaDoo's, 2 Haz mat units, 15 brush pumpers and 6 Battalion command vehicles. We also have a massive fleet of support vehicles

Cafeboeuf, 297-3314, call them you will most likely get to talk to Deputy Chief Clay. I'm sure he will answer any questions you have.

Cafeboeuf, 297-3314, call them you will most likely get to talk to Deputy Chief Clay. I'm sure he will answer any questions you have.

Thanks, but I'll pass on that, Clay isn't as forward with info as Bryant, in my past experiences.

I was more trying to make the (passive-aggressive) point that people should post back-up information when making such claims, especially on OKC Talk after the Maps 3 election.

Was the order canceled, or just deferred due to the economic conditions?

Shouldn't ladders have a longer life than just 15 years anyways?

Not when the NOT THIS MAPS People are trying to make "something out of nothing".

I guess you have to give them credit for something, but talk about kicking a dead horse, hell, even Mark Shannon has thrown in the towel and moved on.

rcjunkie,
I believe it's just not having a short memory, nor kicking a dead horse. While they aren't cutting (laying off) any currently employed personnel, they are also not hiring any more. I got to witness the Mayor pledge (9 times an hour) that maps 3 will not hurt public safety and will actually help it. I don't think that those very public statements he made along with David Prater, the Gov. etc. will fall by wayside and just go away. But I also am not so foolish to believe that the assistance comes immediately. It may take a little while. But the city has already started robbing "peter" to pay "paul"; only to create issues that will also effect public safety.

Looks like OKCGUY3 has thrown in the towel too. He came in, took a post election swipe at MAPS3 and hasn't been heard from since. Thank goodness there are others willing to take on his cause.

Haven't "thrown in the towel" just have a life other than computer chat!

As for follow up information, here goes:

For the last Maps project, the Fire Dept was able to use the use tax to order rigs for a replacement program to keep up with an aging fleet. This same use tax was used to order 4 new fire trucks. Tuesday, the City Council voted to recind the use tax for new fire rigs, and use it instead to remodel the Cox center to appease a Hockey League. Not saying there is anything wrong with wanting a Hockey team! However, they didn't just use the already appropriated money for the fire trucks and then turn around and find another source for public safety. Rather, the order was cancelled in the bid process and now the Fire Chief must go to City Council to ask for rigs on an as needed basis. Hello, if we need them, then we don't have a year to wait on the whole bidding process and purchase order approval after the fact. So, as it stands, there are no fire trurcks ordered or being ordered or approved for order to replace the four that have been canceled.

WARNING, THIS POST HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PAST MAPS ELECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The artical selection below is from the following link.

The Journal Record - Article (http://www.journalrecord.com/article.cfm?recid=105306)
About $1.3 million for the project are already available from revenue sources dedicated to Cox Convention Center capital improvements. City officials said the balance of the committed funds, about $3.2 million, will come from the city and schools capital projects use tax fund with repayment from revenues generated and collected by SMG under an extended use license agreement with Prodigal and other Cox center events.

Haven't "thrown in the towel" just have a life other than computer chat!

As for follow up information, here goes:

For the last Maps project, the Fire Dept was able to use the use tax to order rigs for a replacement program to keep up with an aging fleet. This same use tax was used to order 4 new fire trucks. Tuesday, the City Council voted to recind the use tax for new fire rigs, and use it instead to remodel the Cox center to appease a Hockey League. Not saying there is anything wrong with wanting a Hockey team! However, they didn't just use the already appropriated money for the fire trucks and then turn around and find another source for public safety. Rather, the order was cancelled in the bid process and now the Fire Chief must go to City Council to ask for rigs on an as needed basis. Hello, if we need them, then we don't have a year to wait on the whole bidding process and purchase order approval after the fact. So, as it stands, there are no fire trurcks ordered or being ordered or approved for order to replace the four that have been canceled.

WARNING, THIS POST HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PAST MAPS ELECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The artical selection below is from the following link.

The Journal Record - Article (http://www.journalrecord.com/article.cfm?recid=105306)
About $1.3 million for the project are already available from revenue sources dedicated to Cox Convention Center capital improvements. City officials said the balance of the committed funds, about $3.2 million, will come from the city and schools capital projects use tax fund with repayment from revenues generated and collected by SMG under an extended use license agreement with Prodigal and other Cox center events.

I take back my flippancy earlier. Thanks for a more thought-out post.

I agree with you on the issue. I myself I'm starting to get annoyed at City Hall consistently doing nothing ALL YEAR but say one thing and do another. They said the use tax would go towards public safety, and as much as I love a good hockey fight, that's not public safety. I'm upset about the non-urban projects that are going around all over downtown. I'm upset that buildings are being torn down. I'm upset over the crappy quality of the Bricktown fire station ("The best project for the lowest bid" my arse). I'm upset about the City's reversal on BIDs and capital projects. Are we suddenly anti-capital projects? I'm upset that we're not going to get a real advisory committee more than likely.

Yes, I'm glad MAPS3 passed. That's the one bright spot, but we need to be doing better in everything else. Our city government IS compromising its integrity and falling sub-par compared to the standard that Ron Norick built up as mayor.

So if the use taxes won't go towards public safety, what will the repayment from SMG and "Prodigal Hockey" go towards? That will be at least $500,000 a year as a part of this deal.

A couple of things.

The 4+ mil used for improvements to the Cox Center will be a money maker. They secured a new lease and in return are making improvements. A business decision really.

As for the use tax. Maps3 has not started collecting taxes yet and wont until April, I think. So the use tax that is going to public safety isnt being collected yet. Patience.

We did score a great deal from E-one recently, we were able to purchase a demonstrator ladder from them for about $160,000.00.

Jeez, did you have to help them dispose of some bodies or something? :lol2:

Sweet deal...wish we could stumble onto something like that.

-Chris-

A couple of things.

The 4+ mil used for improvements to the Cox Center will be a money maker. They secured a new lease and in return are making improvements. A business decision really.

As for the use tax. Maps3 has not started collecting taxes yet and wont until April, I think. So the use tax that is going to public safety isnt being collected yet. Patience.

The use tax in question, if I understand correctly, is a presently collected use tax, not the companion use tax that will occur alongside of MAPs 3 when M3 begins next year.

As for a money maker, the improvements appear to be more expensive than the base term lease payments if I read correctly (I skimmed and may not have.) Wouldn't it take well into the lease renewal periods, if such option are exercised at all, before there is a breakeven?

I'm not anti-hockey. I'm not a NTMer, I'm not even a resident who needs y'alls Firedawgs or their trucks I do think canceling, rather than deferring, an existing order for four trucks seems a tad odd.

As for my earlier Q, hadn't seen the article linked at that time, and I was wondering if the cancelled order was a simple temp tradeoff of choosing manpower over equipment this FY since there had earlier been talk of a possibility for a few equipment teams going dark.

Trading men for trucks for a short term is one thing. But closing off an in place updating program in hopes of returning hockey to OKC, yet again, seems to be another.

Maybe it's because I don't understand hockey, but it seems an odd choice to me.

...As for a money maker, the improvements appear to be more expensive than the base term lease payments if I read correctly (I skimmed and may not have.) Wouldn't it take well into the lease renewal periods, if such option are exercised at all, before there is a breakeven? ...

My quick and dirty math showed that it will take about 11 years to "breakeven" on the lease/improvement cost. Thats the initial 5 year lease and the 2@3 yr extensions. This also presumes that the $300K/yr rent completely covers game day expenses and is profit to the city (it isn't). Most likely it is like the Thunder lease where the City only makes $12K a game above expenses. This is in addition to the fact that we have yet to "break even" on the $60M under the 1st MAPS (will just start to do that about the time the new Convention Center opens, when it will take 25 years (with the Chamber's max economic impact multipliers used) to break even on it. Actually 35 years from now since it will be 10 years before it is open.

The use tax in question, if I understand correctly, is a presently collected use tax, not the companion use tax that will occur alongside of MAPs 3 when M3 begins next year.

As for a money maker, the improvements appear to be more expensive than the base term lease payments if I read correctly (I skimmed and may not have.) Wouldn't it take well into the lease renewal periods, if such option are exercised at all, before there is a breakeven?

I'm not anti-hockey. I'm not a NTMer, I'm not even a resident who needs y'alls Firedawgs or their trucks I do think canceling, rather than deferring, an existing order for four trucks seems a tad odd.

As for my earlier Q, hadn't seen the article linked at that time, and I was wondering if the cancelled order was a simple temp tradeoff of choosing manpower over equipment this FY since there had earlier been talk of a possibility for a few equipment teams going dark.

Trading men for trucks for a short term is one thing. But closing off an in place updating program in hopes of returning hockey to OKC, yet again, seems to be another.

Maybe it's because I don't understand hockey, but it seems an odd choice to me.Kevinpate, you are correct. The use tax in question was companion to the MAPS 4 KIDS tax. It is also a portion of the $60 million that the Mayor and Councilman Marrs claimed had been spent on Public Safety since 2001

I take back my flippancy earlier. Thanks for a more thought-out post.

I agree with you on the issue. I myself I'm starting to get annoyed at City Hall consistently doing nothing ALL YEAR but say one thing and do another. They said the use tax would go towards public safety, and as much as I love a good hockey fight, that's not public safety. I'm upset about the non-urban projects that are going around all over downtown. I'm upset that buildings are being torn down. I'm upset over the crappy quality of the Bricktown fire station ("The best project for the lowest bid" my arse). I'm upset about the City's reversal on BIDs and capital projects. Are we suddenly anti-capital projects? I'm upset that we're not going to get a real advisory committee more than likely.

Yes, I'm glad MAPS3 passed. That's the one bright spot, but we need to be doing better in everything else. Our city government IS compromising its integrity and falling sub-par compared to the standard that Ron Norick built up as mayor.

So if the use taxes won't go towards public safety, what will the repayment from SMG and "Prodigal Hockey" go towards? That will be at least $500,000 a year as a part of this deal.Where will the $500K go? Spartan that's a good question. Six months to a year from now after we've all forgotten about it who knows. Out of sight, out of mind.

My quick and dirty math showed that it will take about 11 years to "breakeven" on the lease/improvement cost. Thats the initial 5 year lease and the 2@3 yr extensions. This also presumes that the $300K/yr rent completely covers game day expenses and is profit to the city (it isn't). Most likely it is like the Thunder lease where the City only makes $12K a game above expenses. This is in addition to the fact that we have yet to "break even" on the $60M under the 1st MAPS (will just start to do that about the time the new Convention Center opens, when it will take 25 years (with the Chamber's max economic impact multipliers used) to break even on it. Actually 35 years from now since it will be 10 years before it is open.
In addition...this was from the Oklahoman blog back in July of this year

Terms of the proposed new lease… | Blazers (http://blog.newsok.com/blazers/2009/07/05/terms-of-the-proposed-new-lease/)


There will also be a team store where AHC will receive 100 percent of the gross revenues.

The terms have been negotiated and accepted with the intent and principal purpose of relocating an AHL team to Oklahoma with approval of the AHL.

And finally, renovations to the Cox Center:

Ice plant, loge boxes, VIP and STH club, upgrade to locker rooms, improvements to meeting rooms, additional team storage as well as the team store as well as improvements to how the advertising will be displayed and the lighting, among other things.

Is all of that included in the $4M?

Depends on how you look at this. Do we usually expect to break even on any public works designed for leisure time activities? We will never break even on the new park, nor have we broken even on any parks created by the city. I seriously doubt we will ever break even on the Civic Center, and probably haven't and won't on the Brick either. But, when have we broken even on a road we've created that wasn't a turnpike, or a city building, or an airport? I think this whole "break even" concept should either be applied to everything we build with taxpayer money or nothing. Since we'll never break even on the majority, let's stop worrying about two.

I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with this, but the mayor's public offer of use taxes to fund new employees was rejected by the unions prior to the vote. So, I don't know if it's completely fair to assume that he would have to be held to that offer. I'm not saying it's right to use the use tax for the Cox Center, just that we shouldn't expect to break even. Also, I may be reading it incorrectly, but it looks like the Myriad may be getting the use tax from MAPS for Kids and/or the Ford Center MAPS, not the MAPS 3 use tax which won't start being generated until April. Does anyone else read it that way?

Depends on how you look at this. Do we usually expect to break even on any public works designed for leisure time activities? We will never break even on the new park, nor have we broken even on any parks created by the city. I seriously doubt we will ever break even on the Civic Center, and probably haven't and won't on the Brick either. But, when have we broken even on a road we've created that wasn't a turnpike, or a city building, or an airport? I think this whole "break even" concept should either be applied to everything we build with taxpayer money or nothing. Since we'll never break even on the majority, let's stop worrying about two.

Just my opinion!

Someone earlier opined spending the money on improvements and not the planed trucks was in line with the expenditures being for a moneymaker. The breakeven arose on whether such a justification was applicable.

Was it bad to kill off the planned purchase of firetrucks for this? Not for me to decide. Does it seem inconsistent with the many acknowledgments that public safety is very important? At least a bit.

Shoot, I wondered if it was a temp tradeoff for no layoffs at first, as I hadn't heard the hockey story at the time I asked on that possibility.

Also just my opinion.

I edited my above comment, probably while you were quoting me. I'm wondering if we're talking about two separate use taxes, one from MAPS for Kids and/or the Ford Center and the other from the not yet collected MAPS 3.

I edited my above comment, probably while you were quoting me. I'm wondering if we're talking about two separate use taxes, one from MAPS for Kids and/or the Ford Center and the other from the not yet collected MAPS 3.

Betts, in my humble observation and opinion, your providing them with true facts that show their rants and comments at the very least are misguided. They are not about finding and sharing the facts, your fighting a lost cause.

Spartan, the quote "the highest quality product the lowest bid will buy" is irony. I hope you knew that. That is how we operate though, just check out the toilet paper at any city facility.

Not when the NOT THIS MAPS People are trying to make "something out of nothing".

I guess you have to give them credit for something, but talk about kicking a dead horse, hell, even Mark Shannon has thrown in the towel and moved on.

To quote, well, you actually;

Jimanee Christmas RC, the maps vote's over, move on, let it go, the built up anger will make you ill.:Smiley063

my suggested name for new hockey team: Oklahoma Outlaws. Logo could be a silhoutte of an outlaw complete with hat on head and bandana over mouth.

Spartan, the quote "the highest quality product the lowest bid will buy" is irony. I hope you knew that. That is how we operate though, just check out the toilet paper at any city facility.

Yeah I know. I'm well aware of state laws regarding selecting bids for public works projects..

Depends on how you look at this. Do we usually expect to break even on any public works designed for leisure time activities? We will never break even on the new park, nor have we broken even on any parks created by the city. I seriously doubt we will ever break even on the Civic Center, and probably haven't and won't on the Brick either. But, when have we broken even on a road we've created that wasn't a turnpike, or a city building, or an airport? I think this whole "break even" concept should either be applied to everything we build with taxpayer money or nothing. Since we'll never break even on the majority, let's stop worrying about two.

I'm not saying that I necessarily agree with this, but the mayor's public offer of use taxes to fund new employees was rejected by the unions prior to the vote. So, I don't know if it's completely fair to assume that he would have to be held to that offer. I'm not saying it's right to use the use tax for the Cox Center, just that we shouldn't expect to break even. Also, I may be reading it incorrectly, but it looks like the Myriad may be getting the use tax from MAPS for Kids and/or the Ford Center MAPS, not the MAPS 3 use tax which won't start being generated until April. Does anyone else read it that way?

I see what you are saying but when they tout the economic benefits of a particular project and the Mayor and City Manager talk about "breaking even" it is a valid point to be considered. Parks and sidewalks etc of course are never going to break even, but those that are revenue producers should be maximized as fully as possible (allows more money to go for those things that aren't)

my suggested name for new hockey team: Oklahoma Outlaws. Logo could be a silhoutte of an outlaw complete with hat on head and bandana over mouth.

Wasn't that the name/logo used for our 1st arena football team (before the YardDawgz)?

Wasn't that the name/logo used for our 1st arena football team (before the YardDawgz)?

I thought that was the Tulsa team. I don't pay much attention to arena ball though, so don't bet the farm on my recall.

Betts,
The use tax that was being used for the four fire trucks was from the Maps for Kids use tax. This has nothing to do with the new and upcoming use tax that was rejected by the Unions. This is about a use tax that was committed to public safety and plans were there for the money, bids and specs had gone out and a vender was chosen for the four new fire trucks. And then along comes a special project to get another hockey team. (again, nothing against getting a team) so the fire trucks were cancelled and the money was reappropreated for the Cox center upgrades. All of this with no mentioned plan of replacing the worn out fire trucks in the near future. Love hockey , can't wait to see em play. But how about a little less obvious neglect for the fire service. Just my opinion.

And all of this just days after the Mayor was on TV saying that our public safety is his number one priority and even going on to say something along the lines of, our public safety employees are going to be the best equipped, best trained and best compensated in the region.
That statement is now laughable with the blatent disregard by the city council regarding the best equipped part. Wait..... maybe they only canceled these new fire trucks because they weren't the BEST fire trucks...Hmmmm? probably not.

In the interest of being as factual as possible, I had a conversation with the Fire Chief today, he told me we bought the extra reserve ladder for $195,000.00, after it was offered to us for $295,000.000. We got a good deal on that.

At the city council meeting on 12/8/09, the council approved the purchase of the loaner Rescue Ladder that has been talked about (which was a great bargain in my oppion).

During the meeting a question was raised about where the funds will come from for the Ladder. Councilman Pete White raised the question because he wanted to make sure everyone was aware that the new fire truck was being purchased with Maps 4 Kids use tax funds. Then the city manager goes on to say "we have not spent any dollars from the Maps 4 Kids use tax that was not for public safety".

The very next week they approve 3.2 million for the Cox center that will be funded with Maps 4 Kids use tax.
Amazing the difference seven days make!

Council video SIRE WebCenter (http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/agdocs.aspx?doctype=agenda&itemid=32015)

Hope the link works!
If not, it is item VI A on the agenda.

.......

:fighting3

In the interest of being as factual as possible, I had a conversation with the Fire Chief today, he told me we bought the extra reserve ladder for $195,000.00, after it was offered to us for $295,000.000. We got a good deal on that.

A ladder costs more than most people's houses? And to think I would have gladly marched down to Home Depot and bought you guys a ladder..

A ladder costs more than most people's houses? And to think I would have gladly marched down to Home Depot and bought you guys a ladder..

HD doesn't carry extra reserve ladders, only regular reserve ladders
:dizzy:

Tulsa World: Layoffs big in TFD proposal (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=334&articleid=20091218_11_A1_Laying35989)

Tulsa may end up cutting the Fire Dept's budget by 4.4% if Holiday sales don't drive up sales tax in a hurry. That would be 120 firefighters let go from a force of 600. That's huge. And closing several stations around the city.

Spartan, the loss of positions would be bad. It would not affect fire services for them. They have a call back board. Any time they need to fill a position they call in an off duty firefighter and pay them 24 hours of overtime to work. Oklahoma City does not have this option because the city will not agree to it. It would have cost about 100,000.00 or so last year to keep anyone from having days off canceled.

The ladder trucks the city was going to purchase were $675,000.00. I wish HD hed them there.

Betts,
The use tax that was being used for the four fire trucks was from the Maps for Kids use tax. This has nothing to do with the new and upcoming use tax that was rejected by the Unions. This is about a use tax that was committed to public safety and plans were there for the money, bids and specs had gone out and a vender was chosen for the four new fire trucks. And then along comes a special project to get another hockey team. (again, nothing against getting a team) so the fire trucks were cancelled and the money was reappropreated for the Cox center upgrades. All of this with no mentioned plan of replacing the worn out fire trucks in the near future. Love hockey , can't wait to see em play. But how about a little less obvious neglect for the fire service. Just my opinion.OKCGUY3, is it true that after 2 Resue Ladder Trucks failed their annual inspection and had to be put out-of-service that the annual inspection requirment was cancelled for the rest of the fleet?

OKCGUY3, is it true that after 2 Resue Ladder Trucks failed their annual inspection and had to be put out-of-service that the annual inspection requirment was cancelled for the rest of the fleet?

That's what we've heard, simply cannot take the risk of putting more apparatus OOS. We've got 2 trucks operating from old squads. 25's is in 119, the old reserve rig with a line date of what, 1970-something?

As it stands, if any peice of apparatus has to be taken out of frontline service those crews stand a good likelyhood of responding to fire alarms in junk. No money for parts, and no money to put trained hands on the rigs to work on them.

The ladders as they are would be great reserve rigs, once brought up to safety standards. Four new rigs would be greatly appreciated and at this time necessary. I shudder to think of events that will precipitate action on the part of the city. Somebody is going to have to get hurt. But so long as there is money to be shifted, OKC will have all the luxuries it desires.

Those reading please make note that 2 ladders failed safety inspection. That means no climbing. That means no rescue or master stream deployment at large scale fires. Truck work is the work of rescue. They rescue trapped occupants, as well as providing necessary relief to firefighters inside by cutting vent holes in roofs to allow hot gasses and smoke to leave. Some roofs are simply too steep to climb even with roof ladders, some are too weakened by the fire roaring beneath them for a firefighter to be placed atop, in these instances a vent is cut from the boom of the ladder truck.

This will not happen by crews that respond in squads (which might look to you like big vans) because they are ill equipped. We currently have two truck companies in old squads meaning two less areial ladders throughout the city.

If a reader feels I am being dramatic, its their right. I feel that taking money from public safety when they were beginning the bidding process for necessary equipment is underhanded, and reprehensible.

These are not civilian vehicles that can be expected to last relative to the care with which they are handled. Heavy rigs are abused from jump street with hard breaking and acceleration, and the very weight of them puts strain on integral members of their frame and suspension. We wash almost daily, to include a detailed job every Friday by the shift on duty, we wax the first tuesday of every month, we grease ladders yearly and when needed, we check fluids every shift, tires every shift, paint wheels to prevent rust, etc. We have protocols for every one of these maintenance procedures. We take care of our stuff. The jobs these rigs perform limit their functional lives - it is inherently rough.

;)

I spoke recently to someone that mentioned during our conversation that Jim Couch seems and "I say seems because I will have to do some checking", has called for budget cuts almost every year. How does that work? If the city has grown, and it has, why is the budget being cut every year?

Not sure about budget cuts per se, but the past 3 or 4 years now the City's budget was described as being "tight" and "stand still". From what I have read in the City's budget reports, any increases in revenue essentially go to pay for increased costs of all city personel (salaries, benefits, etc and the most recent culprit was rising fuel costs). Now that the City has been experiencing a steady double digit decline in tax revenues for nearly the entire year, obviously there isn't increased revenue to keep up with the expenses much less to pay for what was current...thus the across the board declines and recently reported probable furloughs.

Something to think about, the city has 13 aerial ladders, 8 in the 82-100 foot range. 2 are 135 foot ladders and 3 are 95' aerial platforms. The city has 3 reserve ladders, 1 is a 1985 model, 1 is a 1989 model and 1 is a fairly new ladder bought at a significant discount.

The 1985 reserve is out of service as are 3 1995 front line ladders, RL-16, RL-25 and RL-34. All four are sitting on the drillground at the maintenance shop. RL-6 is out of service at an engine shop. So considering we only have 2 reserve and 4 ladders are out of service, we are being shortchanged by someone. 2 of the ladder companies are using 1990 squad companies. These box type vehicles carry significantly less of the equipment assigned to those companies.

I would rather the city had ordered the 4 ladders they were going to and the Hockey team could have sought private investors. Just my thought as a taxpaying city resident.

Not sure about budget cuts per See, but the past 3 or 4 years now the City's budget was described as being "tight" and "stand still". From what I have read in the City's budget reports, any increases in revenue essentially go to pay for increased costs of all city personnel (salaries, benefits, etc and the most recent culprit was rising fuel costs). Now that the City has been experiencing a steady double digit decline in tax revenues for nearly the entire year, obviously there isn't increased revenue to keep up with the expenses much less to pay for what was current...thus the across the board declines and recently reported probable furloughs.

You are correct, the ever rising employee costs can not be sustained without cuts. Listed below are increases to this years departmental budgets just to cover personnel (Pay plan adjustments, merit raises, Health Insurance)

Airports 182,000
City Auditor 33,000
City Clerk 12,700
City Managers Office 212,000
Finance 258,000
Fire 1,955,000
General Services 123,000
Information Technology 313,000
Mayor / Council 24,000
Municipal Counselor 119,000
Municipal Courts 136,000
Parks and Rec. 487,000
Planning 112,580
Personnel 81,000
Police 3,550,000
Public Works 1,400,000
Water Utilities 788,000
Wastewater Utilities 459,999
Solid Waste 139,000

Add to this the increase in utilities (gas, electric, water/sewer) increase in equipment and supplies, there's no way to avoid deep cuts with these types of increases. On the bright side, the fuel costs have declined considerably since last budget cycle, projections were made when fuel was over $3.00 a gallon.

According to Jim Couch, with the budget being approved at somewhere around $823,000.000.00, his statement during the council meeting of 1/5/10 that our fund balance was a little above 10%. That means the city has around $85,000,000.00 sitting in the bank, basically unaccounted for. Why are we cutting jobs when there should be enough in reserve to get through these tough economic times.

According to Jim Couch, with the budget being approved at somewhere around $823,000.000.00, his statement during the council meeting of 1/5/10 that our fund balance was a little above 10%. That means the city has around $85,000,000.00 sitting in the bank, basically unaccounted for. Why are we cutting jobs when there should be enough in reserve to get through these tough economic times.

We've only had 1 layoff so far... and this is hopefully what Council will consider when voting on the budget this year. If each Department submits a 12% cut plan, maybe Council will agree that some services are necessary and they'll need to dig into the fund balance. I'm not suggesting they should, but it might be an option. It's too early to tell...

Agreed OKC has survived quite nicely compared to others so far. But I saw that presentation Cafe. Unless there's a miracle recovery by summer, pain is coming. If I heard correctly they're already digging into fund balance and they're not going live on the edge again as they did in the '80s. Mike, that fund balance is important to maintaining the city's bond rating and I doubt the city is eager to deplete it.

Agreed OKC has survived quite nicely compared to others so far. But I saw that presentation Cafe. Unless there's a miracle recovery by summer, pain is coming. If I heard correctly they're already digging into fund balance and they're not going live on the edge again as they did in the '80s. Mike, that fund balance is important to maintaining the city's bond rating and I doubt the city is eager to deplete it.

Oh, I agree, but I also say it's too early to start claiming any one department is going to be hurt or saved...

I hear all of the assistant city planners will get the axe first.

I hear all of the assistant city planners will get the axe first.

Crap. Good think I've worked making pizza and changing tires/oil before. Always gotta have the fall back. :smile:

Would it be possible for many of these positions that may get cut, just transfer over to the people that are going to be needed with the various MAPS 3 projects?

Would it be possible for many of these positions that may get cut, just transfer over to the people that are going to be needed with the various MAPS 3 projects?

That's what may be happening. If you look at the list of Departments that had cuts, you'll notice Planning wasn't on it. Some positions can directly charge back to GO Bond projects, MAPS projects, TIF projects, and Federally-funded projects/positions. The Community Development division on Planning (about 12 people) is almost completely (if not completely) funded via federal funds. Other Planning staff often help out with the initial stages of the types of projects mentioned above, so their general fund pay is not 100%, which counts as a budget reduction.

When MAPS 3 begins, staff from Planning, Public Works, and Finance (mainly) will probably begin charging time to that. I have no idea what Mr. Couch intends to do with staff - maybe Steve knows. I don't know if they plan a MAPS 3 office, something like the current MAPS for Kids office, or if they'll just use existing staff in their existing positions.

Here's an update-

3 ladders at the shop for repairs, RL16, RL25 and RL34. RL6 is out of service at an engine shop, RL6 is in an old Squad vehicle that has no ladders on it. We are down to 3 reserve ladders now. The 1985 RL109 was removed from the fleet. RL118 is in service as RL25 and was informed not to use the aerial device. Estimated repairs to RL16 to repair it to the level that it can be tested to see if it passes certification to be climbed is $68,000.00. Cost to repair RL25 to the point it can be tested is $56,000.00. I did not hear an estimate to repair RL34. Again the $3,200,000.00 to purchase 4 new Ladders was loaned to SMG to pay for upgrades for a hockey team that as of yet doesn't exist.