I really think The crosses that are lit up at night on the Sandridge and Chase/Cotter Towers are cool and the FNc Tower is lit up Green/Red! I like it and think it look's very nice!What do you guys think?does it make OKC look more Bible-beltish?are these companies imposing there religion on every1?Does any other city do this w/their DT buildings?

Their buildings, their decisions, end of story.

^^^^ End of story????The title of this thread is do YOU like it!

I personally think that we have to focus on the reason we celebrate Christmas. So any symbol
that will serve as a reminder of the Savior is great! We still live in a free country where we can express our beliefs without fear of reprisal.

I sleep in on Sundays but still enjoy the towers during the holidays...Don't think it is overboard at all

Nothing to do with Christmas, but with our "OKC"....wouldn't that be easy to do with our 3 blocky letters? Maybe during some big citywide (non-holiday) celebration.

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FWIW, I have no issues with whatever they wish to legally do with their own property. That includes lighting up windows to show crosses, or spell out OKC, or, WE (Heartshape) Mick, or if they have windows enough, even spelling out heynannienanaheynanienanaheynanienanaboo if they are of such a mind.

I think they should start lighting up beginning 2010....

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:kicking:

While I enjoy buildings that do unique things that this, I would like to see them break it up a bit. City I lived in before would have a couple buildings doing the same, but they would trade off. One would do a tree the other a cross, and they would go back and forth.

I also sleep in on Sunday, but I like it and dont have a problem with it.

Its a symbol that is important to alot of people and I respect that.

It's their buildings and they can do whatever - but people can still think it's creepy and backwards.

I agree that it's their buildings so they can put what they want to on them, but I always liked the Citgo building in Tulsa on Yale, just south of 61st St. They always did or still do a Christmas tree... I just think it'd be cool to do some other design.

I associate crosses with the death of Jesus, not now that it's near His birth time. To me, the crosses are for Easter, not Christmas time.

I associate crosses with the death of Jesus, not now that it's near His birth time. To me, the crosses are for Easter, not Christmas time.

Almost everything about Christmas and Easter's history is ass backward.

But hey, if people want to commemorate Jesus' birth and resurrection that way I think it's great.

Yes I know we have voted on this, and most people don't mind it. I don't mind the cross either, but my question is why 2? In Tulsa when I was growing up, we did a cross and a Christmas tree. I just think it looks silly to have 2 of them, it would be cool if they did another Christmas design also.

Yes. You're right. There should be more than two.

City Place and the Oklahoma Tower need to start holding their own..

Why not a menorah on one? Or perhaps a Star of David?

Flash - we could be known as ecumenical rather than...not so much

Why not a menorah on one? Or perhaps a Star of David?

Flash - we could be known as ecumenical rather than...not so much



But that would mean we are a open minded city.

^^^OMG I love it!

What percentage of Oklahoma City are Jews? It's 2% nationally (as a race, not a religion - about the same anyway). That may explain why there's no Jewish symbols on downtown buildings.

I already have a thread started for this topic under the Faith category!but if it is better placed in here then have at it,but we dont need 2

I won't make a big deal about this (knowing the terrain in which I live), but, 2 points:

1) A cross is not a symbol of Christmas, it is a symbol of Easter, so, when a cross is used for Christmas, it is a misplaced symbol of Christianity's season;

2) I'm not a fan of religion being pushed of on people. That said, a kindler-gentler symbol, and one more in keeping with the season, would be a star with light beams bursting downward, i.e., more like Christmas, the birth of Christ, than like his death on the cross.

I won't make a big deal about this (knowing the terrain in which I live), but, 2 points:

1) A cross is not a symbol of Christmas, it is a symbol of Easter, so, when a cross is used for Christmas, it is a misplaced symbol of Christianity's season;

2) I'm not a fan of religion being pushed of on people. That said, a kindler-gentler symbol, and one more in keeping with the season, would be a star with light beams bursting downward, i.e., more like Christmas, the birth, than like the death on the cross.

That makes perfect sense to me!

I think the FNC looks great w/ the spire lit up green/red!if any1 has pics of DT OKC w/ the crosses in it please post it!Thanx!

I'm not sure how it started, but here's an interesting tidbit: if you watch my OKC Central show from two weeks ago, you'll see an old photo of two towers with crosses lit up in them for Christmas - it was decades ago and the two towers were First National and CityPlace (then Liberty). This has been going on a while.... and it was the very first thing I saw when I first arrived in Oklahoma City back in 1976.

If the building owners wanna put up a michelin looking man adorned in spaghettio's, I'm fine with that too.

Yep, crosses have been a part of the OKC skyline for decades.

It would be interesting to know when the first one appeared -- I think it goes back to at least the 60's.

I won't make a big deal about this (knowing the terrain in which I live), but, 2 points:

1) A cross is not a symbol of Christmas, it is a symbol of Easter, so, when a cross is used for Christmas, it is a misplaced symbol of Christianity's season;

2) I'm not a fan of religion being pushed of on people. That said, a kindler-gentler symbol, and one more in keeping with the season, would be a star with light beams bursting downward, i.e., more like Christmas, the birth of Christ, than like his death on the cross.

didn't you watch Big Bang Theory?

It should be an apple tree. Or more appropriately an apple, but I can see the city having some litigation problems with that(or maybe a windfall).

What percentage of Oklahoma City are Jews? It's 2% nationally (as a race, not a religion - about the same anyway). That may explain why there's no Jewish symbols on downtown buildings.

But how many Oklahomans are open-minded to Judaism as opposed to any other non-Christian religion? A lot..myself included.

I think it would be a cool idea for the Devon tower to integrate a christmas lighting scheme as part of its building plans.

The appearence of a 3 dimensional Christmas tree is kind of what I am envisioning, but I'm sure there are better ideas out there. This is definately something they should consider though, because of this tradition with other OKC skyscrapers.

I like them, should be more. I would expect to see Muslim symbols in Dubhai, here we have crosses.

Yes. You're right. There should be more than two.

lol. passive aggressive much?

I think the crosses are just done every year because it's incredibly easy to do.

I like them, should be more. I would expect to see Muslim symbols in Dubhai, here we have crosses.

funny you should mention that.. I was in Dubai in 92-93.. I was also in Bahrain and most of the other emirates of the UAE around that time..

I'm sure things have changed since then, but when I was there, I didn't see many symbols of anything during the time of Christmas..

consumerism was in full swing, for sure, but there wasn't a dedicated "showing" of any one religious Winter Holiday Icon that was offered to the populace at large..

Sicne many American, British, Soviet and Autralian military personnel were stationed there, we saw enough Santas and Menorahs at various business establishments to satisfy the "spirit", but there was never any oppresive "Muslim" influence that caused any of us to feel that the holidays were ruined..

It was only upon returning to the U.S. that I felt like there was some competitiveness during this time of year. And it felt new... Like someone had flipped a switch and we all had to suddenly fight about which singular religion had the most ownership over the last few weeks of the year..

When I was a kid, in the 70's and 80's I Never felt like I was being oppressed by one religion or faction of a religion. I never felt pressured to believe one myth or tradition over another.. I suspect that many kids today probably feel the same way and roll their eyes at all the adults who seem to feel some need to glorify their traditional beliefs over another based on what's displayed on a building or how a certain business decides to advertise their intent for the holidays..

Santa wasn't a Jew, or a Muslim, or a Christian, or a Buddist, or whatever the flavor-of-the-month downtrodden religion is in season.. none of your religious icons(or saviors) were born on December 25th.. Get over it and let the children have their holiday...

I said i would 'expect' to, not that there were. I didn't say I had any belief that Christ was actually born in December. I didn't say Santa was any of those things, and I sure had missed the memo that Christmas was only about Santa. You are free to believe what you want, I have no problem with crosses being displayed. To make it clear, I would not be offended to see Muslim symbols on buildings in the Muslim world. I don't think the crosses on the building are "oppressive" or "pushy", at any rate, read what I said, if you want to argue with someone, keep looking, I'm just stating my opinion.

You get to put whatever you want on whatever building you own. Although I'm sure some people write letters to the owners of those two buildings, they don't get to vote on what goes on the sides.

Uh, I'm not especially religious, but I am pretty certain that Santa Claus (Saint Nicholas) was indeed a Christian. No question, there is some pagan influence in the St. Nick tradition, but dude was not originally the secular elf we think of today; he was a Christian saint. Other than that, I am O.U.T. on this whole debate. Good luck arguing religion on the Internet.

The new Devon building, once completed, needs lots of red and white lights in a chubby peppermint stick swirl pattern

The new Devon building, once completed, needs lots of red and white lights in a chubby peppermint stick swirl pattern

agreed

Crystal Bridge on the other hand, that needs to be like a mondo torte or pumpkin role

Crystal Bridge on the other hand, that needs to be like a mondo torte or pumpkin role

Mmmmmmm!!! I love pumpkin rolls.. lol

Something tells me the Devon building will have a REALLY, REALLY BIG CROSS.

I think one skyscraper cross is enough, personally. And I think it would be cool to have a Star of David and a half moon somewhere, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

Crystal Bridge on the other hand, that needs to be like a mondo torte or pumpkin role

Or a giant yule log.

I think a star of David would be fine, if it was during some season that was particularly meaningful for Jews. My understanding is that hannukah isn't really that big a deal to them, it just gets emphasized because it's the same time as Christmas.

or how about no lites and save energy

I was hoping for a public observation deck (Devon Tower), open to the public for a fee which all the proceeds would be donated on a rotation monthly to various local charities.

I think it's symbolic. I'm big on symbolism.

The crosses have been there for decades in one form or another,
but the most enduring image I have of 4-19-95 was coming
down Broadway Extension and seeing the Chase Tower crosses
lit in April. At that moment, that building's crosses became a
landmark and not a symbol. It was oddly comforting to see
during such a horrid time. Sandridge's crosses are of course
lots brighter, but Chase's will always be more meaningful.......
at least to me......

I won't make a big deal about this (knowing the terrain in which I live), but, 2 points:

1) A cross is not a symbol of Christmas, it is a symbol of Easter, so, when a cross is used for Christmas, it is a misplaced symbol of Christianity's season;

2) I'm not a fan of religion being pushed of on people. That said, a kindler-gentler symbol, and one more in keeping with the season, would be a star with light beams bursting downward, i.e., more like Christmas, the birth of Christ, than like his death on the cross.

a couple of things

the cross is not a symbol of Easter it is the symbol of Christianity all year round and is in no way a misplaced symbol

a cross on a building is in no way pushing religion on anyone. and the Cross doesn't represent the death of Christ (that would be the crucifix) It reminds us of Christ's victory over death.

I'm not so big on the crosses, but for some reason my kids liked them when we were there a few weeks ago. It is one of the things they remember about OKC. I would like to see the buildings trimmed in lights the whole year, just not crosses.

it's their buildings and they can do whatever - but people can still think it's creepy and backwards.

ditto.

I miss the old devon building sign that used to change colors at Christmastime.

It's their buildings and they can do whatever - but people can still think it's creepy and backwards.

This is about how I feel. They're allowed to do it, so I won't criticize too harshly....but I still think it's too Bible Beltish.

What's extra creepy... is that had the crosses never been put there no one would have noticed... now that they are there I bet they can NEVER take them down without a backlash from thumpers.

Its no different than crosses and stars outlined in lights on the front range of the Rockies that appear to float in the air at night. Its done on private property so its their right to display these signs. Its no different than the huge cross at the church at I-35 and Edmond Rd. or the cross out in the Texas Panhandle on I-40.

I wonder if this started with a bored security guard 30 years ago or directive from one of the McGee's or something?

I also wonder if it is automated now. Has anyone seen them go on? Does the cross show up at one time or does it come on block by block?

I wonder if this started with a bored security guard 30 years ago or directive from one of the McGee's or something?

I also wonder if it is automated now. Has anyone seen them go on? Does the cross show up at one time or does it come on block by block?

I am about 90% sure that the crosses are not office lights. pretty sure they are separate lights on the buildings

I used to work at Liberty Tower now Chase tower and the lights for the cross are actually a 4' long flourescent bulb hanging from a hook attached to the drop down ceiling. They go from the the 16th floor up to the 33rd floor. There are power outlets in the ceiling for each bulb and when the tenants whose office contains one of these they have to allow the building to use them, it is written into their lease agreement.

I'm not big on the crosses, but I would be ok with one, 2 just seems a bit excessive. I'm very tolerant of christian displays during the holidays (I myself am one of those aforementioned non existent jews, and a non practicing one). However, while I don't so much see it as pushing religion on me (although I do find it funny, that the only people who think that it isn't pushing religion on people are devout Christians) I do see it as a marker of territory. I don't mean to sound angry or anything, but when I'm driving home from Edmond and I see those two crosses down 235, I feel about the same as when I see the gang markers on my neighborhood buildings. The crosses, just like the gang markers, come across as a visable sign of someones "turf". As if to imply, "this land is for Christians", and not being one myself, also, "this land is not for you". Now, I'm not saying that they should be outlawed, as previous posters have said, "their buildings, their choice". But I just wanted to say, as a religious minority in this town, it DOES have an effect on me.