View Full Version : Maps 3 in the News



jbrown84
12-09-2009, 06:33 PM
Has anyone seen any non-local coverage of MAPS passing? Perhaps we could post articles to this thread.

Thundercitizen
12-09-2009, 07:02 PM
Excellent idea. I'll be back later.

Thundercitizen
12-09-2009, 07:07 PM
From "The Street.com;
OKC Voters Decide To Extend Sales Tax For MAPS 3 | Earnings | Financial Articles & Investing News | TheStreet.com (http://www.thestreet.com/story/10641559/1/okc-voters-decide-to-extend-sales-tax-for-maps-3.html)

Off the AP wire.

mugofbeer
12-09-2009, 10:27 PM
Jim Cramer has been somewhat of an OK booster of late. He and Aubrey McClendon seem to see eye to eye on things. He did his show from OU a few weeks back and now he is starting to become a booster of companies and events that can bring us out of recession. MAPS3 goes right down that line.

betts
12-11-2009, 04:49 AM
This is from row2K news. It's got some commentary from Mike Knopp and the US Rowing CEO:

row2k News: Oklahoma City Project to Include $60 Million in River Improvements (http://row2k.com/news/news.cfm?ID=50298)

Thundercitizen
12-11-2009, 01:23 PM
And another:
Oklahoma City Voters Say “YES” to Historic MAPS 3 Proposal (http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/oklahoma-city-voters-say-ldquoyesrdquo-to-historic-maps-3-proposal,1084588.shtml)

Excerpt:
Findings from an Oklahoma Tourism and Recreation Department study show the dollars spent by tourists in Oklahoma County grew from $857,880,000 in 1990, to $2,104,720,000 in 2008, an increase of about $1.25 billion. This dramatic growth coincides with the 1993 approval and subsequent investment projects implemented by the original MAPS.

New revenue for Fire and police?

craigbanks
12-11-2009, 03:11 PM
OKC voters decide to extend sales tax for MAPS 3 (http://www.seattlepi.com/business/1310ap_ok_maps_3_proposal.html) OKC voters decide to extend sales tax for MAPS 3 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/12/08/financial/f173848S48.DTL&type=business) Looks like Seattle and San Francisco have taken notice.

joseph
12-14-2009, 08:26 PM
From the US Olympic Committee website: Oklahoma River to Receive $60 Million in Improvements for Rowing, Canoe/Kayak | News | Team USA (http://www.teamusa.org/news/2009/12/11/oklahoma-river-to-receive-60-million-in-improvements-for-rowing-canoe-kayak/29846)

Platemaker
12-15-2009, 10:20 AM
Terrific article and comparison of Jacksonville to OKC.

Moving Forward: Oklahoma City | Metro Jacksonville (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-dec-moving-forward-oklahoma-city)

flintysooner
12-15-2009, 11:15 AM
Terrific article and comparison of Jacksonville to OKC.

Moving Forward: Oklahoma City | Metro Jacksonville (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-dec-moving-forward-oklahoma-city)Good article. I look at those pictures of Oklahoma City and it always amazes me at what a wonderful change has occurred here since MAPS.

Doug Loudenback
12-15-2009, 02:13 PM
Very nice! I see 2 pics from OKC: 2nd Time Around that were not credited (the before/after pics looking at where the Bricktown Canal would be/became, looking toward the ballpark in the foreground) but it's pretty amazing that someone in Jacksonville would go to this much trouble to put together the article. Very nice kudos to Okc from Jacksonville, Florida.

Spartan
12-15-2009, 04:16 PM
Very nice! I see 2 pics from OKC: 2nd Time Around that were not credited (the before/after pics looking at where the Bricktown Canal would be/became, looking toward the ballpark in the foreground) but it's pretty amazing that someone in Jacksonville would go to this much trouble to put together the article. Very nice kudos to Okc from Jacksonville, Florida.

Yeah, that's partly my fault. They copied several posts from my blog for the article and they left out where I attributed the pics that were Steve's or Doug's.

Doug Loudenback
12-15-2009, 05:04 PM
Not a problem at my end, Spartan, and congrats for being a place from which images were gathered for the main article.

MikeOKC
12-15-2009, 05:05 PM
Terrific article and comparison of Jacksonville to OKC.

Moving Forward: Oklahoma City | Metro Jacksonville (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-dec-moving-forward-oklahoma-city)

Well, we now know what Kerry's moonlighting job is in Jacksonville!
:gossip:

Just kidding! That was an excellent article.

Spartan
12-15-2009, 05:58 PM
Not a problem at my end, Spartan, and congrats for being a place from which images were gathered for the main article.

Thanks Doug, that's an honor coming from you.

CCOKC
12-15-2009, 08:33 PM
What a great article that was. I just love living in a city that is put up as a model of success. I could not always say that about my fair city. That article probably gives us more credit thatn we deserve though. We have definitley improved a lot over the last 15 years but we have a long way to go. And after the Maps III projects are done we will have a long way to go from there. I have never been to Jacksonville and about the only thing I know about it is that it is larger in area than OKC (which is really hard to believe). If I am not mistaken they have a lot of water within the city limits though. I am sure it is not as dire as the article makes it seem. I am sure if someone from here did the article in reverse there would be a lot of nice things to say about them. Looks like we can always learn from other cities successes and failures.

soonerguru
12-15-2009, 09:06 PM
LOL, anyone else find it funny that OKC has better density than Jacksonville? That city must be really, really spread out.

Spartan
12-15-2009, 09:38 PM
It is.

Doug Loudenback
12-15-2009, 09:53 PM
Before reading this thread and the lead article, I'd not spent more than 60 seconds thinking about Jacksonville, ever. The article got me to wonder a bit. Here's just a bit to see:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/misc/jacksonville.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/misc/jacksonville1.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/misc/jacksonville2.jpg

The wiki article is Jacksonville, Florida - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacksonville,_Florida). Here's an excerpt:

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/misc/jacksonville_wiki.jpg

okclee
12-15-2009, 09:57 PM
did anyone read all of the comments at the bottom of the page? good reading here to.

Dar405301
12-16-2009, 08:23 AM
jax is a pretty cool place. i've enjoyed living here, but i can't wait to come home! from living here i can tell you that okc has way more going for it than jacksonville. okc got an nba team, jax is close to losing the jags. downtown okc is growing and becoming a place where people want to live and spend time, downtown jax doesn't have that kind of atmosphere. the only reasons i go downtown here are for the occasional jags game, or to drive to the westside, from where i live, it's easier to drive through downtown than to go around on 9A. it's kinda strange to me that okc has a higher population density, because the traffic in jax sucks.

Kerry
12-16-2009, 08:47 AM
jax is a pretty cool place. i've enjoyed living here, but i can't wait to come home! from living here i can tell you that okc has way more going for it than jacksonville. okc got an nba team, jax is close to losing the jags. downtown okc is growing and becoming a place where people want to live and spend time, downtown jax doesn't have that kind of atmosphere. the only reasons i go downtown here are for the occasional jags game, or to drive to the westside, from where i live, it's easier to drive through downtown than to go around on 9A. it's kinda strange to me that okc has a higher population density, because the traffic in jax sucks.

Dar - you must live pretty close to me. I am near the St. Johns Town Center. Traffic in Jax is getting better but nowhere near as bad as other large cities. As for Jax density. Jax has a huge city limit (bigger than OKC) but 75% of the area is rural. Almost everyone lives inside the 295/9A loop and those that don't, live within 2 miles of it. That would be like everyone in OKC living inside I-240, I-44, and and I-35.

betts
12-16-2009, 11:21 AM
My son is soon to move back to Jacksonville (he has a house in Springfield that he renovated basically from a shell). It's always reminded me of Oklahoma City. It has one huge advantage over us in that it has a beach, and based on what the city has been doing with Springfield over the past few years, it's always surprised me that the downtown doesn't have more options for residents.

Kerry
12-16-2009, 12:00 PM
My son is soon to move back to Jacksonville (he has a house in Springfield that he renovated basically from a shell). It's always reminded me of Oklahoma City. It has one huge advantage over us in that it has a beach, and based on what the city has been doing with Springfield over the past few years, it's always surprised me that the downtown doesn't have more options for residents.

The problem with downtown Jacksonville is this - they put all of the homeless shelters there. Just try and venture out any time of the day or night in downtown Jacksonville and you will be hit up for money constantly, see people taking a crap on the sidewalk, and large congregation of seemingly unemployed people hanging out on various street corners. Not exactly the place for women or children.

There use to be a children’s museum just between Springfield and downtown Jax. My wife took our two kids there on a Saturday and was hounded by someone wanting money to the point she was actually afraid for her safety and then realized if something bad happened there was no one around to help her. It was the last time she went.

Spartan
12-16-2009, 01:30 PM
Well another big problem with Jacksonville is that, as great as Springfield is, it's cut off from downtown by a few streets. Downtown Jax has some potential it's just really rough right now. There's some good potential for Deep Deuce-style lofts over in La Villa.

Saying that 295/9a confines the sprawl isn't entirely true..there is a TON of sprawl outside the loop. The beach is a ways outside the loop..which is probably the densest area in all of Jacksonville.

jbrown84
12-16-2009, 05:03 PM
Is Springfield a neighborhood/district?

Spartan
12-16-2009, 07:12 PM
Yes. It's adjacent to downtown Jax on the north side. Cool historic area with a little bit of everything.

Kerry
12-16-2009, 07:49 PM
Spartan - there is a large gap of rural land and very low density housing between 9A and the beaches. In all honesty Springfield is a hell hole. There was an attempt in the past to develop Springfield but it didn't work. Just too many crack houses to shut down. If you watch Cops when they are in Jacksonville they never have to leave Springfield to get all the video they need.

Here is a true Springfield story. Several years ago we were on vacation in OKC and on our return trip to Jax our mini-van broke down in Dallas. We didn't have time to wait for repairs so bought a new Armada. When we got home I realized that I had taken the back seat out of the minivan before we left so it was still in our garage. I tried to give it to several salvage yards but no one would take it. I mentioned it to my friend and he said he would take it. He lived in Springfield and said if he left it on his porch someone would steal it over night.

So at lunch we loaded it into the back of his pickup and he took it home. When he got home he parked in front of his house and went in to get his son to help him unload it. When they came back out it was already gone. He said he wasn't inside his home 30 seconds. Anyhow, that is how I got rid of the back seat of our minivan.

Spartan
12-16-2009, 09:05 PM
That's not unique to that one inner city neighborhood in Jacksonville, though.

betts
12-17-2009, 07:44 AM
I still think Springfield will take off. It's simply too close to downtown, and is too unique not to. The economy probably hit it really hard, I'm guessing. When my son bought his house, the city had great tax credits they were offering, and in some of the less developed sections were giving $25,000 cash to people renovating a house. His property taxes were frozen for 10 years at the pre-renovation rate. At least I hope it will improve. I love to drive around and look at the houses there.

Platemaker
12-17-2009, 08:18 AM
Reposting this here because I posted in the wrong thread....

Posted by Ocklawaha in the comments section of the Moving Forward article:

"Also, it should be noted that NO other city is broadcasting more Anti-Jacksonville crap then OKC, as the media there is having a Jaguar/Jacksonville/Failed Everything Feeding Frenzy."

Where is he getting that 'crap'??

kevinpate
12-17-2009, 09:00 AM
Reposting this here because I posted in the wrong thread....

Posted by Ocklawaha in the comments section of the Moving Forward article:

"Also, it should be noted that NO other city is broadcasting more Anti-Jacksonville crap then OKC, as the media there is having a Jaguar/Jacksonville/Failed Everything Feeding Frenzy."

Where is he getting that 'crap'??

Maybe they interviewed a Tulsan, planted amongst us for just such an emergency.
:sofa:

Spartan
12-17-2009, 09:43 AM
Maybe they interviewed a Tulsan, planted amongst us for just such an emergency.
:sofa:

Are you saying that there are Tulsa posters in our midst?

kevinpate
12-17-2009, 06:31 PM
Are you saying that there are Tulsa posters in our midst?

well, I meant OKCmetro in general, not OKCTalk specifically

gmwise
12-17-2009, 06:39 PM
I still think Springfield will take off. It's simply too close to downtown, and is too unique not to. The economy probably hit it really hard, I'm guessing. When my son bought his house, the city had great tax credits they were offering, and in some of the less developed sections were giving $25,000 cash to people renovating a house. His property taxes were frozen for 10 years at the pre-renovation rate. At least I hope it will improve. I love to drive around and look at the houses there.


Though I am for this.
Isnt this sorta like cash for cluckers.? lol

HOT ROD
12-17-2009, 06:49 PM
i haven't heard or seen anyone from OKC post or say anything bad about Jax.

What is that dude smokin?

soonerguru
12-17-2009, 06:51 PM
What is that dude smokin?

Probably meth -- or else he's freebasing. He's obviously very paranoid.

gmwise
12-17-2009, 07:02 PM
Probably meth -- or else he's freebasing. He's obviously very paranoid.

isnt that what Jax "dudes" do? lol

Spartan
12-17-2009, 10:54 PM
Though I am for this.
Isnt this sorta like cash for cluckers.? lol

You could look at it like that. Isn't your kids being able to go to public school kinda like socialism?

Or you could just look at like a tax rebate for health insurance, something neocons love.

soonerguru
12-17-2009, 11:41 PM
Though I am for this.
Isnt this sorta like cash for cluckers.? lol

Does cash for cluckers involve chicken farming?

:LolLolLol

gmwise
12-18-2009, 12:14 AM
You could look at it like that. Isn't your kids being able to go to public school kinda like socialism?

Or you could just look at like a tax rebate for health insurance, something neocons love.



I'm a liberal...
I'm all for it...
lol

gmwise
12-18-2009, 12:14 AM
Does cash for cluckers involve chicken farming?

:LolLolLol



brat lol

jbrown84
12-18-2009, 04:55 PM
That's not unique to that one inner city neighborhood in Jacksonville, though.

There's some van seats in a front yard across from me that I would love for someone to steal.

megax11
03-05-2010, 05:49 PM
See, seeing as we're getting up there in the population chart with Jacksonville, we should get an NFL team, like they have.

Aparently a little market like them (meaning smaller than other locations in Florida, or any other NFL state) can support the NFL, so I don't see why we couldn't.

Have some oil tycoon get some land, and build a stadium to NFL standards, and I'm sure the NFL wouldn't mind expanding.

Watson410
03-05-2010, 09:12 PM
See, seeing as we're getting up there in the population chart with Jacksonville, we should get an NFL team, like they have.

Aparently a little market like them (meaning smaller than other locations in Florida, or any other NFL state) can support the NFL, so I don't see why we couldn't.

Have some oil tycoon get some land, and build a stadium to NFL standards, and I'm sure the NFL wouldn't mind expanding.

There's only one problem.... Jacksonville doesn't support their team very well. That's why they blacked out ALL their home games last season (Even in Jacksonville). It was an attempt to get the fans to actually come to the games instead of staying home and watching it on TV...

jbrown84
03-09-2010, 08:47 PM
Plus that's their only major league team.

mugofbeer
03-09-2010, 09:14 PM
FL has 3 NFL teams with Miami, Tampa Bay and Jacksonville. I wonder whether the fact Jacksonville didn't support their teams well is a product of the market size or if it is a product of the state being split by 3 teams, along with the fact that so many of hte people in FL are from somewhere else and their allegience is with, for example, NY, Philly or Boston?

betts
03-10-2010, 02:07 AM
Kerry might weigh in here too, as he knows more about Jacksonville than I do. I think it's possible that the massive support for University of Florida football in that area might have some effect as well.

Kerry
03-10-2010, 06:33 AM
Kerry might weigh in here too, as he knows more about Jacksonville than I do. I think it's possible that the massive support for University of Florida football in that area might have some effect as well.

It is four things betts.

1. University of Florida does play a role but UF is 70 miles away and Tampa is actually the big attraction for UF grads. I would say a fair amount of UF fans in Jacksonville have never set foot on a college campus.

2. The stadium is way too big. They built it to handle crowds for the Florida/Georgia game and it seats about 20,000 too many. In an attempt to increase demand, so as to avoid blackouts, they covered 10,000 seats. It didn't help. Winn Dixie even bought the remaining 10,000 empty seats and tried to give them away when you bought groceries - it still didn't work.

3. Jacksonville doesn't have the corporate base. No way around that. The stadium didn't even sell naming rights. Neither has the baseball stadium nor the 18,000 seat arena. All three of which are in the same area of downtown.

4. Finally, here is the big one - the population of Jacksonville is greatly exaggerated due to the way metropolitan areas are defined and the fact the City of Jacksonville covers nearly the entire county. Population centers get attributed to Jacksonville MSA that are nowhere close to Jacksonville.

Here are some examples: St Johns County (181,000) is considered part of Metro Jacksonville because there is some urban development right at the county line but half of St Johns County population is around St Augustine 30 miles away. So the whole county gets added in to the total. Baker county is 100% rural and is more than 15 miles from the nearest urbanized part of Jacksonville but the entire 26,000 people get added in. The same goes for Nassau County (70,000) where nearly 100% of the population lives more 20 miles from any urbanized portion of Jacksonville. Then we have Clay County (184,000) that, like St Johns, has a portion of their population as part of Jacksonville’s continuous urban fabric but a large chuck of the population is removed by many miles from Jacksonville.

Finally, a portion of Jacksonville residents are not here most of the year for two reasons - they are either snow birds who claim the Jacksonville area as home for tax purposes or are military people who claim the Jacksonville area home for tax purposes. I know both kinds of people and when I was in Army basic training it was suggested to list Florida as your home state to avoid paying state income tax when we sat en-mass to complete our W-4s.

The end result is Jacksonville is actually closer in size to Tulsa than it is to OKC.

mugofbeer
03-10-2010, 09:45 AM
Finally, a portion of Jacksonville residents are not here most of the year for two reasons - they are either snow birds who claim the Jacksonville area as home for tax purposes or are military people who claim the Jacksonville area home for tax purposes. I know both kinds of people and when I was in Army basic training it was suggested to list Florida as your home state to avoid paying state income tax when we sat en-mass to complete our W-4s.

I think this is the biggie reason. If OKC had a stadium and tried to land an NFL team, I'd be concerned about the attendance, too. If you look around, there are very, very few places that actually DO support both a top attended college program and an NFL team. There seems to be some mutual exclusivity to them.

Kerry
03-10-2010, 09:51 AM
A NFL team in OKC would be doomed, and probably bring the NBA down with it. For crying out loud, the only reason we have an NBA team at all is because Seattle with over 3 million people couldn't do it. I love OKC, but I'm not blind to economic realities.

CaseyCornett
03-10-2010, 09:55 AM
A MAPS 3 press release just went out and since this thread is "Maps 3 in the news" and the release hasn't technically hit the news yet...I made a separate thread for it. "Wenger selected to lead MAPS 3 program" MAPS3 Press Release TwitDoc.com - the EASY way to share your documents on Twitter (http://twitdoc.com/c/pcrxa4)

Urban Pioneer
03-11-2010, 09:51 PM
I have to say, I really enjoyed this editorial. I respect people with differing views, but this sums up my sentiment for staying here and voting for this.

Enough with the MAPS bashing | OKG Scene.com (http://www.okgazette.com/p/12738/a/5755/Default.aspx?ReturnUrl=LwBEAGUAZgBhAHUAbAB0AC4AYQB zAHAAeAAslashAHAAPQAxADIANwAzADgA)

jbrown84
03-13-2010, 05:40 PM
Great quote from that editorial:

"I see MAPS as a reward to those of us who could have moved off after college, but stayed and watched our friends go. To those who could have moved to Dallas for more money, or to Washington, D.C., for more influence, but didn’t, MAPS is for you. For those who thought about going to the mountains and leaving these flatlands behind, MAPS is for you. For those who wanted to wake up to an ocean, but stayed to spend Memorial Day at the lake, MAPS is for you. For the artists and musicians who were drawn to Austin, Texas, Santa Fe, N.M., or New York but stayed and made this home, MAPS is for you. For everyone who heard your friends say how much they couldn’t wait to get out of Oklahoma, but you stayed. MAPS is for us."


A MAPS 3 press release just went out and since this thread is "Maps 3 in the news" and the release hasn't technically hit the news yet...I made a separate thread for it. "Wenger selected to lead MAPS 3 program" MAPS3 Press Release TwitDoc.com - the EASY way to share your documents on Twitter (http://twitdoc.com/c/pcrxa4)

Seems like a good choice in Wenger. Now I'm curious to hear who's on the board...

OKC@heart
04-06-2010, 01:02 PM
There was a great article in the Dallas Fortworth Bisnow e-newsletter that focused on OKC as a bright spot and some of what is taking place here. I thought this was particularly encouraging as this is a focused and targeted news source that realestate and development professionals use to feel the pulse of a place for possible opportunities to develop projects. So just another example of the momentum of OKC being at first resisted by the bigs, now be embraced and highlighted as a new market that should be considered! Great news again for OKC!

2010: UNCERTAINTY ODYSSEY - Real Estate Bisnow - Dallas-Fort Worth (http://www.bisnow.com/dallas-fort_worth_commercial_real_estate_news_story.php?p =7907)

Kerry
04-06-2010, 01:26 PM
There was a great article in the Dallas Fortworth Bisnow e-newsletter that focused on OKC as a bright spot and some of what is taking place here. I thought this was particularly encouraging as this is a focused and targeted news source that realestate and development professionals use to feel the pulse of a place for possible opportunities to develop projects. So just another example of the momentum of OKC being at first resisted by the bigs, now be embraced and highlighted as a new market that should be considered! Great news again for OKC!

2010: UNCERTAINTY ODYSSEY - Real Estate Bisnow - Dallas-Fort Worth (http://www.bisnow.com/dallas-fort_worth_commercial_real_estate_news_story.php?p =7907)

Just below the OKC story is one about the $900 million facelift to DFW. That kind of puts it in perspective. BTW - the story has it wrong, Devon Tower is not the tallest building in the US under construction. It is 3rd. The new World Trade Center is 1776' (more than 2X as tall as Devon) and I forget the other building but it is in NYC as well.

ljbab728
04-06-2010, 10:38 PM
Just below the OKC story is one about the $900 million facelift to DFW. That kind of puts it in perspective. BTW - the story has it wrong, Devon Tower is not the tallest building in the US under construction. It is 3rd. The new World Trade Center is 1776' (more than 2X as tall as Devon) and I forget the other building but it is in NYC as well.

Kerry, what is put in perpspective? Of course there are larger construction projects or more expensive construction projects around. Little could compare to the construction in Dubai or even Las Vegas for size or cost. This is positive press for OKC and should be embraced as such instead of trying to find negative aspects to emphasize.

Kerry
04-07-2010, 05:55 AM
Kerry, what is put in perpspective? Of course there are larger construction projects or more expensive construction projects around. Little could compare to the construction in Dubai or even Las Vegas for size or cost. This is positive press for OKC and should be embraced as such instead of trying to find negative aspects to emphasize.

I was just saying that as you read through the list of projects in the story and the price tags for each you think, "wow, there is a lot going on" then in the next story there is more money being spent to remodel two terminals at DFW than all OKC projects combined. We are making progress but we have a long way to go.

mugofbeer
04-07-2010, 09:03 AM
DFW is a self-sustaining entity that now receives tens of millions of dollars annually, largely from Chesapeake Energy, for royalties from the natural gas they pump out of the shale beneath the airport. It has terminal facilities that were build for a different day and time that are literally starting to crumble because of poor construction. They have built one new terminal and a new transit system but now need to sustain their role as a top 5 airport and remodel/reconstruct. Yes, its a lot of money but it primarily comes from the airlines, the passengers and the royalties. DFW is also about 20x the size of our CBD.

ljbab728
04-07-2010, 10:30 PM
I was just saying that as you read through the list of projects in the story and the price tags for each you think, "wow, there is a lot going on" then in the next story there is more money being spent to remodel two terminals at DFW than all OKC projects combined. We are making progress but we have a long way to go.

I agree, Kerry, that we have a long way to go but comparing price tags of projects has little relevance. One hotel in Las Vegas can cost more than all of our projects combined but a new expensive hotel in OKC wouldn't have nearly the impact of all of these project combined even at a lower cost.