I understand I am being dramatic, I even said my post was a rant - I had just gotten done driving through there and I had to check my wheels to make sure nothing was bent afterwards. Even if the temporary patches will be redone, it will still look and feel pretty bootleg for such a high-class street. They should have used this opportunity to redo the entire strip, including removing the brick stamped patterns in the intersections. I mean we still have zero crosswalk indication at most of these areas. Unless there is some master plan I am unaware of, I would love to be proven wrong.

Isn’t there a plan to add signals to those intersections?
A couple of things: the asphalt patches are a function of the streetcar. They had to do with utility work required in advance of the track work. They have happened weeks/months ahead of time, and not just on Broadway but everywhere track is going. If those were what made you say the street was trash before the track work, well, they’re temporary and will be fully repaired by completion. Otherwise the street was previously in good shape.

Regarding shutting the street down, the businesses along Broadway have already suffered quite a bit. Total shutdown would have been devastating, no matter the length of time. It also would have caused nightmarish impacts on parallel streets, especially since some of them (including Robinson) were simultaneously under construction. That said, Broadway has moved roughly 1000x more quickly than did Sheridan or Reno in Bricktown. In many ways Broadway has had it very easy.

Regarding removing the stamped intersections, zero chance this happens. These intersections were a part of the 1999 streetscape and are at this point a distinct part of AA’s brand identity. They were also part of the Team 2 revisioning of AA during the bombing recovery, so culturally significant at this point. At some point they will need to be re-worked a bit, as ADA interpretation has changed since 1999 and the ramps and crosswalks ultimately need to be reconfigured.

Regarding a master plan, the city has been working closely with the district’s management (DOKC) on a long term plan to reconfigure ramps and include marked crosswalks. Unfortunately they can’t just plop down crosswalk markings willy-nilly currently because ADA has requirements on how wheelchair ramps empty into crosswalks, and in many cases the ramps don’t match up to where a crosswalk should be. Doing it wrong is just as bad as not doing it all; maybe even worse. So this has to be done methodically, which takes time, and expensively (and there is presently no budget).

The goal right now is to let the streetcar work finish, see how the streetcar and realigned lanes/parking affect traffic and pedestrian patterns and move forward from there in an informed way.

Regarding signalization there is currently a planned protected signal to be installed at 8th in conjunction with streetcar install.

Thanks for more clarification, Urbanized. The asphalt before was still in poor condition, the parts that but-up against the stamped concrete are very warped. The asphalt patching for the utility work is horrible at best. I understand it is temporary, but visualizing a "permanent" patch over these patches, just gives the big picture a bad look. I hope these businesses don't suffer again in 1-5 years when the road needs further extensive repair. With Oklahoma summers, we all know what happens to asphalt around here.

Side note, everytime I have gone by here it looks like Cultivar is still killing it. I am happy they have developed a following.

Urbanized... thank you for your informative posts... not just the one above, but most of what you do. It is good that you are here to offer more objective insight into how and why decisions are made and what the factors affecting those decisions were. We can always debate whether the right conclusion was reached but at least we have a view to reality. Often, criticism is leveled without knowledge or concern for the factors influencing the actions. Context is very important.

Thanks for more clarification, Urbanized. The asphalt before was still in poor condition, the parts that but-up against the stamped concrete are very warped. The asphalt patching for the utility work is horrible at best. I understand it is temporary, but visualizing a "permanent" patch over these patches, just gives the big picture a bad look. I hope these businesses don't suffer again in 1-5 years when the road needs further extensive repair. With Oklahoma summers, we all know what happens to asphalt around here.

Side note, everytime I have gone by here it looks like Cultivar is still killing it. I am happy they have developed a following.

You're right about the asphalt. It had become warped a bit and that is certainly common on streets where asphalt abuts concrete. You begin to understand why they used asphalt when you look at the cost of the 1999 streetscape. If I recall from my involvement with Automobile Alley at the time the streetscape was $1.6 million. This utilized federal Murrah District Revitalization funding, administered by the City of OKC. The $1.6 million included complete reconstruction of the sidewalks (they were unbelievably decrepit), and each of the 7 intersections cost roughly $100K each. If you think of it in those terms and consider that concrete for the full length would have probably at least doubled the cost (and probably time spent), it is understandable why they would choose asphalt. At the same time, I agree that concrete streets are vastly superior. The issue is really just money. For instance the just-passed bond issue could have paid for such conversion, but there were so many other desperately needed projects ahead of it.

I will say that I THINK the entire street is going to be milled and resurfaced. Right now they are just humping it to be serviceable in time for the marathon.

Agree about Cultivar. I think they are weathering it really well all things considered.


Urbanized... thank you for your informative posts... not just the one above, but most of what you do. It is good that you are here to offer more objective insight into how and why decisions are made and what the factors affecting those decisions were. We can always debate whether the right conclusion was reached but at least we have a view to reality. Often, criticism is leveled without knowledge or concern for the factors influencing the actions. Context is very important.

Thanks Rover. I appreciate the kind words. I just try to chip in where I happen to have information that helps clarify a discussion. Sometimes it's easy to be upset at a situation if you don't have full context. I know you and others here often do the same.

I understand I am being dramatic, I even said my post was a rant - I had just gotten done driving through there and I had to check my wheels to make sure nothing was bent afterwards. Even if the temporary patches will be redone, it will still look and feel pretty bootleg for such a high-class street. They should have used this opportunity to redo the entire strip, including removing the brick stamped patterns in the intersections. I mean we still have zero crosswalk indication at most of these areas. Unless there is some master plan I am unaware of, I would love to be proven wrong.

nm, Urbanized addressed that in 7201 & 7204

Great post Urbanized. AA is happening faster than other track sections. Our goal is to have the area relatively free and clear for the marathon and then resume work immediately after. We have held off excavations across Broadway at the 11th street left-hand turn. This is another key section with a protected signal. The area between 6th and 4th is also staggered with track excavation to commence after the marathon.

Regarding renovating AA, there are some smart urbanists that really would like to see this done to make the area more pedestrian friendly. Yes, many of these organic initiatives are stymied by the undoubted negative impacts caused due to prolonged street reconstruction... however the biggest, broadest challenge is shifting ideas about how traffic should be handled with the Traffic Engineering Department. Those folks have moved somewhat at great pressure to do so. However, I can't see a complete overhaul of Broadway until some of the conservative traffic movement ideology dies off.

I was not able to make any of the public meetings in March or the full public hearing on 6 April (disappointed about that), but something I asked about previously at an Embark meeting (a change to Route 50 to supplement vs duplicate streetcar service) was on the docket. I presume all these things passed, but not sure. The more interesting thing is, if you live in Deep Deuce, you'll soon have a connection to the streetcar line via the new Route 50.

14584

Full details of rates and routes and changes going into effect in July:
http://embarkok.com/assets/files/meeting_documents/notices/2018/2018_Summer_CM_Packet.pdf

There are a whole lot of posts on this thread, and i'm still somewhat new to the site, so apologies if this has already been covered and hashed out somewhere else. Now that the stops are actually being built, it has struck me how close together some of them are. 2 stops essentially on each northern corner of myriad gardens. 3 stops at 4th and robinson/broadway. A stop each ~block on Sheridan and Reno in bricktown. Just seems like this isn't setting up with much expectation to walk i suppose? Someone educate me if i'm thinking wrong here

There are a whole lot of posts on this thread, and i'm still somewhat new to the site, so apologies if this has already been covered and hashed out somewhere else. Now that the stops are actually being built, it has struck me how close together some of them are. 2 stops essentially on each northern corner of myriad gardens. 3 stops at 4th and robinson/broadway. A stop each ~block on Sheridan and Reno in bricktown. Just seems like this isn't setting up with much expectation to walk i suppose? Someone educate me if i'm thinking wrong here


I think I can help with a few of these questions.

1. While there are 2 stops on the north side of the myriad gardens keep in mind that they are 2 blocks apart. Also. While the bricktown loop. (Or blue line or “B” line”) has those 2 stops back to back on the main line they are 14 stops apart. So any one coming from midtown would be able to get off at the park without riding in bricktown

2. The idea of the stops at 4th and Robinson next to each other is to be able to shorten the trip depending on where you want to go. Ie if you want to go from the library to the ball park you could ride to that intersection get out and walk across the street and get on the south bound car to bricktown and cut out having to ride all the way around midtown. The opposite is also true.


As for bricktown it is the highest activity area in maybe the entire state. And While the stops are just less than 2 blocks apart. The choice really was to over serve Bricktown slightly or underserve it.


Keep in mind the Far East bricktown stop is an out of traffic stop (so the driver can take a break ect). And the Sheridan/Reno stops next to the tracks are there to serve the sante fe station. And just having those 3 would have left bricktown underserved.


Hope that helps

Thanks Boulder, appreciate it! I may still think there are too many stops in certain areas, but i understand the reasoning behind the decisions.

I hadn’t given it that much thought until I really started thinking about the way the route works, but definitely regular users will want to use different stops near them depending on which direction they’re headed. For instance, I have a stop directly in front of my office door on Sheridan, which will be perfect for arrival. But if I’m outbound from my office I’m likely to walk two blocks south to Reno and a Mickey Mantle, because I won’t want to catch a train that is only a couple of blocks from a ten minute stopover/cig break on the east side of the ballpark.

The fact that there are multiple routes, the fact that they cross in the CBD, and the fact that a one or two block walk can put you on a train that is directionally opposed to the stop nearest you, trimming off a huge part of the route, is very important for regular users (as opposed to lookie-loos). If I’m working in Bricktown and want to grab lunch in Automobile Alley, for instance, no way I want to loop through Midtown on either leg of that trip.

^

I've been discussing this with my friends recently, some of whom have complained that we didn't do a simple double tracked linear street car (one N/S from the CBD to Midtown and one E/W from the CBD to Bricktown), a la Kansas City. Your post captures my view/response to these complaints, as once people become familiar with the stops, it generally shouldn't take much time to walk to a stop that will efficiently send you the direction you want to go.

Are operators really going to stop the train on the east end with riders onboard for their break? Please tell me no, and that it is only a driver switching point?

I was thinking about this after leaving the Thunder game last night...I wonder how the streetcar will be utilized for people leaving games/arena concerts with departures from the station 12-15 minutes apart and only 100 or so passengers being able to fit inside. I can see the streetcar being a very popular option for leaving the game (parking for away for free to save money, going to get a drink after, people living downtown). I feel like the demand for using it will be greater than the supply of streetcar space and timing. Could they increase the frequency on game nights or would that not be possible due to how many streetcars they have available?

This was discussed at some of the public meetings. The boulevard stop near the main arena entrance is the only place we're double tracked and they will be pre-staging trains there for when a game lets out.

I was thinking about this after leaving the Thunder game last night...I wonder how the streetcar will be utilized for people leaving games/arena concerts with departures from the station 12-15 minutes apart and only 100 or so passengers being able to fit inside. I can see the streetcar being a very popular option for leaving the game (parking for away for free to save money, going to get a drink after, people living downtown). I feel like the demand for using it will be greater than the supply of streetcar space and timing. Could they increase the frequency on game nights or would that not be possible due to how many streetcars they have available?

I am pretty sure Thunder games will get a prioritized streetcar treatment. However, on nights that are nicer weather-wise or say a Friday or Saturday - the streetcars will be in high demand elsewhere in addition to the arena. I am sure it will be a reactive call on how to stagger the cars.

Are operators really going to stop the train on the east end with riders onboard for their break? Please tell me no, and that it is only a driver switching point?
I believe that is also a location where they will build charge in the batteries to replenish after being off-wire, so pretty much every train will stop there for a bit no matter what. Same for the stop on Dewey by Saint Anthony.

Imagine 15-20 minute service from Will Rogers Airport to the downtown loop with connections to outer neighborhoods, even Austin doesn't have that!

Austin's light rail system is literally nothing we would want to emulate ever.

Thanks for the replies catch22. Yea I didn't meant to intend that redoing the street should come from the streetcar budget. I am just saying this is like one of those missed opportunities and we will be closing this street down again in the next 5 years to redo it properly. This was more of a frustration rant. Much like the P180/Streetcar construction interaction has been a joke, this is likely another area of hindsight.

We are OKC. This is how we roll.

I believe that is also a location where they will build charge in the batteries to replenish after being off-wire, so pretty much every train will stop there for a bit no matter what. Same for the stop on Dewey by Saint Anthony.

I think that is a huge flaw.

It could also be a way to buffer for traffic impacting the schedule.

If they schedule a train for every 10 minutes, but light traffic results in improved travel time, they could hold in those areas to get back to their normal interval.

It could also be a way to buffer for traffic impacting the schedule.

If they schedule a train for every 10 minutes, but light traffic results in improved travel time, they could hold in those areas to get back to their normal interval.

Perhaps. But people already skeptical of transit will not like standing for 2-5 mins for the driver to stretch his legs and recharge the vehicle. Being ahead of schedule usually is absorbed by standing at a functioning stop. At least people can board or choose to get off.

Imagine if you took a bus everyday and it had to stop at 7/11 for fuel.

Perhaps. But people already skeptical of transit will not like standing for 2-5 mins for the driver to stretch his legs and recharge the vehicle. Being ahead of schedule usually is absorbed by standing at a functioning stop. At least people can board or choose to get off.

Imagine if you took a bus everyday and it had to stop at 7/11 for fuel.

I'm pretty positive that there is a functioning stop on Joe Carter Ave that the streetcars will stop at for their dwell period. Looking at Google Earth, I see a cross-hatched area right in front of the platform, directly west across the street from IHOP.

I'm pretty positive that there is a functioning stop on Joe Carter Ave that the streetcars will stop at for their dwell period. Looking at Google Earth, I see a cross-hatched area right in front of the platform, directly west across the street from IHOP.

That's correct. It's the one we are referencing. Similar stop on Dewey near St Anthony.

I'm pretty positive that there is a functioning stop on Joe Carter Ave that the streetcars will stop at for their dwell period. Looking at Google Earth, I see a cross-hatched area right in front of the platform, directly west across the street from IHOP.

You may be right. Last time I drove through there I didn’t see a platform, only the hatch lines. If that is true I think that is better but I still don’t like the idea of having to sit to recharge.

There is definitely a platform.

The stop and recharge period is required because of so much time off-wire along the route.

There is definitely a platform.

The stop and recharge period is required because of so much time off-wire along the route.

Thanks for the clarification on the platform. I still think it is a design flaw - we shouldn’t have such long stretches off-wire if it results in this.

Personally I would have left the whole thing on-wire (other than you still would have to lower the pantograph to make it under the Sheridan and Reno bridges, so there would still need to be hybrid technology to make it into/out of Bricktown). I'm not troubled about the appearance of the OCS at all, though others on the site have grumbled about it.

All of that said, in reading up on the trains we are getting, I think if battery technology improves enough by the time we have to replace these batteries that it's possible they could retrofit all stations with induction plates that would fast charge at every stop. That is something that apparently Brookfield is working on (and which I think has been done already in China), and it would eliminate the need for OCS entirely.

Phone it in: New OKC transit fare system is an app

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record April 18, 2018

OKLAHOMA CITY – The Central Oklahoma Transportation & Parking Authority is upgrading its passenger payment systems ahead of the installation of a new downtown streetcar.

A new mobile ticketing and fare inspection application will complement the existing system rather than be a replacement, spokesman Michael Scroggins said. It will rely primarily on a downloadable app rather than more expensive hardware to read so-called contactless chip-embedded credit and debit cards.

City officials are still negotiating details of the $150,000 contract bid. Scroggins said a final deal is expected to be submitted for approval at the next board meeting and then sent to the City Council for consideration. Implementation is expected before the end of the year.

The request for proposals posted in November drew six bids, five of which were deemed appropriate. The selection committee, with advisement from Four Nines Technologies, narrowed the proposals to two: Corethree in the United Kingdom and Token Transit Inc. in California.

The city’s current collection system for its buses is based on cash fare boxes that issue passes. Multi-use passes can be purchased at the transit hub. The new system will be accessed entirely through smartphones.

Scroggins said COTPA officials looked at radio-frequency-enabled debit and credit cards for the streetcars, an option that has been incorporated into larger transit systems elsewhere in the country such as New York City’s Metropolitan Transportation Authority. But Oklahoma City is in a difficult position between being able to start fresh with cutting-edge technology and not having enough travelers for some systems to be cost-effective.

City Hall recently unveiled the new MAPS 3 streetcar storage and maintenance facility at SW Seventh Street and Hudson Avenue. Installation work continues on nearly 7 miles of rail and 22 stops throughout downtown. Each streetcar will carry up to 104 passengers.

Would that be something like you could add to an Apple Wallet and use your iPhone for payment?

Just a bit of additional clarification on the "super-charging" station stop at the OKC Boulevard. Trains are designed to pass through that area without necessarily having to stop and recharge every time. D-Line trains have more juice in their batteries however as they have been on-wire for a longer period of time overall. However, B-Line trains are only on-battery in the Bricktown area but are technically under less stress as most of that route is without major grade changes.

The theory is that trains may be forced to dwell at that location longer than other stops to deal with bigger influxes of people as well due to the new Convention Center, Park, and Chesapeake Arena. So this stop is actually fairly ambidextrous in purpose. Trains can sit there as long as needed for whatever reason on either side of the stop. It is the only double-sided stop in the system with automatic driver actuated switching mechanisms.

The committee is committed to making recommendations if additional catenary wire is needed. The only way to know for sure is to stress test the system over several months. Not having the wire is pretty much a Devon driven issue. Nobody on the committee is opposed to more catenary if it proves that there is a problem in real life that the modeling used by our engineers didn't factor.

The "station-to-station" charging system concept is used by the Seimens Corporation in Qatar. We're not there yet and may actually put up more wire if it turns out there are problems. We are also proposing a backup generator as part of our upcoming expenditures so that the Bricktown OG+E service can go down and we can use the super-charger as a redundant mechanism to keep trains up an running.

We believe this is so worthwhile longterm that we have already installed duct banks for it back to the maintenance facility where it would be located. The MF would also be backed up on the same generation circuits.

Sorry for the dissertation. I just want to make sure everyone understands that we are being very cautious and thinking ahead.

Makes sense. Needing charging times on account of the off-wire time seems like potentially an annoying problem, but the solution of just adding more wire isn't exactly a huge engineering challenge.

Questions:

1. Are the cabs air conditioned and if so how will they work in our extreme summer temps? And will the use of AC drain batteries faster possibly resulting in using AC less to conserve batteries, thus making the ride miserable?

2. This is not a complaint rather my uneducated questions/comments. Since we have 3 peak car rush hour periods in each work day meaning there are lots of cars driving these same streets - how will the tram navigate traffic without getting stuck in same traffic and thus possibly hirting ridership if late arriving? For example if traffic is backed up at a light at noon it has to also wait for same light. Then on green light only so much traffic can move because the road after the light is backed up so only so many cars get thru. So if a car ahead of tram is not able to go before next red that means tram is stuck too. Am I wrong in how this will work? I am thinking morning/noon/afternoon is about 6 to 7 hours total of packed traffic where tram might get stuck. And then during big events like Thunder games if the roads are full of non moving car traffic how is tram going to keep a schedule? Maybe I don’t know enough and cars will be blocked from tram lanes?

Thanks in advance

I think the lights will be prioritized to the streetcar.

I think the lights will be prioritized to the streetcar.


I think the lights will be prioritized to the streetcar.

Thanks. So wouldn’t that mean drivers also learn to take advantage knowing those lights are timed to get more traffic flow, thus still creating a backup of traffic? I am trying to see how trams can move any faster than traffic. Since it appears the trams are not in a dedicated lane I am not seeing how they will move faster. Especially during lunch hour if one takes tram they might be delayed getting to/from location this reducing ridership at peak times? Maybe I am just not aware of how that will be handled.

And do you have any ideas on the AC/summer question? It can get awful hot here and we want out of towners to at least have a great tram experience.

On the roads I am thinking if traffic bottlenecks significantly and slows down trams they might have to block one lane to traffic to allow tram to keep schedules. Maybe I just don’t know enough yet.

I seen mentioned the medical district. One other concern is with no tram on that side of 235, and since a lot of medical folks go over to West of 235 to eat lunch - they will still drive cars and that keeps roads clogged. Not enough eating places on East side so most go West over 235 to eat. The medical district was never designed to be entertainment or eating area thus why most venture over 235 for better/more choices.

Thanks

They don’t have to move faster than traffic. They are an alternative to driving. The only time transit needs to move faster than traffic to be enticing is for commuter purposes. I.e. Edmond/mwc/Norman to OKC.

They don’t have to move faster than traffic. They are an alternative to driving. The only time transit needs to move faster than traffic to be enticing is for commuter purposes. I.e. Edmond/mwc/Norman to OKC.

Any mass transit should move faster than traffic or otherwise what’s the befit to the commuter?

Any mass transit should move faster than traffic or otherwise what’s the befit to the commuter?

I specifically addressed commuter transit should move faster than traffic. A downtown circulator is not a commuter mode.

I specifically addressed commuter transit should move faster than traffic. A downtown circulator is not a commuter mode.

Plus, while not your point, it can be nice to zone out and not have to focus on driving after a day at work, read a book, check one's phone, etc. even if you moving at the same speed as other cars. My father back in Jersey City opts to take the bus in the same traffic he used to drive in just to avoid putting the miles on his car and to be able to rest/check his emails on his commute.

Plus, while not your point, it can be nice to zone out and not have to focus on driving after a day at work, read a book, check one's phone, etc. even if you moving at the same speed as other cars. My father back in Jersey City opts to take the bus in the same traffic he used to drive in just to avoid putting the miles on his car and to be able to rest/check his emails on his commute.
While true right now, autonomous cars will make this advantage mass transit currently has invalid. The only remaining advantages transit will have is that is more eco friendly to pack people like sardines and transport them than their own personal car and a more prevalent social aspect for transit users.

While the streetcar might not be used for commuting purposes, I still think it is important to give it as many advantages as possible. Like it or not, many of OKC's benefits that currently exist such as low housing costs and low traffic won't in the near future. I have noticed a major increase in traffic since I've been back for the past several weeks. While traffic isn't necessarily backing up, it would seem the steady river of traffic that flows down freeways now exist in OKC and I have never seen that before. There was usually large gaps between 'pools' of drivers on most freeways. It isn't long until chronic congestion hits the freeways in OKC and the downtown area. It will be important that any mass transit has its own dedicated lanes to move past traffic especially in downtown where a lot of people are generally in a hurry.

On the traffic, right now 235/44 work acts like a traffic throttle. Once 235/44 is completed you will “rush” cars downtown faster to the roads in tram area. Thus that will create more backed up roads. Traffic does back up even now during rush hours and lunchtimes.

I think its important the tram can navigate faster than most traffic. Otherwise it could be a novelty ride and not a preffered ride. There are good points not having to drive but there are those who will want to use car if its same speed. Maybe they can put traffic aids similar to what some cities do for ambulances which turn lights green for them. But even so then traffic will learn this and use that lane knowing they can get around faster.

If there is no traffic advantage my question is, wouldn’t a fancy bus have been much cheaper and more comfy and able to adjust routes as downtown grows? I want the tram to work but the traffic issue during most busy times is worrisome. Of course off work hours will be fine except during big events like Thunder games. Roads are a parking lot after games so the tram won’t move anyone for at least an hour or so.

I am curious if any studies have been completed to document how many total hours it will run and then how many hours of mass traffic exist (in the total run hours). And has anyone test driven a car all of those exact opersting hours on the exact route to figure out the bad hours - to know best how to work the schedule. If a car takes 20 minutes to do the route on a Sat and takes 45 minutes during peak traffic hours - this would help decide hiw to make schedules that are accurate. If people are using this during lunch they want to know if its on time.

Thanks for the replies and also all the info in this thread is great.

I believe signal prioritization is included in the project. Once the streetcar is ready to enter the intersection the lights will change.

Portland streetcar operates in vehicle traffic lanes and it functions well enough even in Portland’s mind numbing traffic.

While true right now, autonomous cars will make this advantage mass transit currently has invalid. The only remaining advantages transit will have is that is more eco friendly to pack people like sardines and transport them than their own personal car and a more prevalent social aspect for transit users...

PluPan, this “magical solution” view is rapidly being discounted by traffic planners and city planners as they put more thought into the autonomous future. Total conversion to individual autonomous vehicles and amandonment of mass transit causes all sorts of inefficiencies and unintended consequences. Even the most ardent defenders of the autonomous future are starting to move away from the idea that it would be mostly single-occupant, single-destination vehicles and are instead accepting that the best and most efficient use of self-driving technology would be SHARED autonomous vehicles which would supplement rather than compete with other forms of transportation.

Simply put, individual-use autonomous vehicles do basically NOTHING to solve problems of geometry - that is, how much road space is occupied to serve an individual user - and in fact have great potential to make it worse via increased trips due to convenience, increased driving miles due to a lessening of the windshield time penalty associated with sprawl, unoccupied block circling, unoccupied drives to remote free parking, etc.. It also leads to innefficiencies during high-volume times such as rush hour, event let-out, or bar closing times (you can already see this happening in cities thanks to Uber and Lyft).

Simply put, the more dense an area is, the more likely it is that mass transit will remain the best and most efficient option, especially with dedicated ROW. Other modes (walking, cycling, shared autonomous) also work very well at the beginning or end of such trips.

I know you stay pretty open minded and I’ve seen you shift some of your views based on new information, so if you have time I’d like for you read some or all of these articles and tell me what you think of the points made within:

https://ggwash.org/view/65239/catos-vision-for-autonomous-vehicles-will-ensure-they-fail-heres-how-cities-should-incorporate-them

https://cleantechnica.com/2016/01/17/autonomous-cars-likely-increase-congestion/

https://seattletransitblog.com/2016/07/13/driverless-cars-wont-make-transit-obsolete/

https://grist.org/business-technology/why-driverless-vehicles-wont-be-the-death-of-public-transportation/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ciocentral/2017/10/20/autonomous-vehicles-will-change-cities-landscapes-heres-how/#5a9fdb27bf4c

https://blog.transloc.com/blog/will-autonomous-vehicles-kill-public-transit

http://activetrans.org/blog/why-uber-wont-replace-public-transit

I think some people are focusing too much on how fast the tram will be and not on how convenient it will to not have to park. Once you get to work downtown and put yourself on the 3rd or 4th floor of a parking garage, you don't necessarily want to drive back down the garage, find somewhere to park again, and then drive back up the garage again. Same for thunder games and concerts: you won't have to find a spot to park close to the arena once you park where you want to eat beforehand.

It's a real challenge to envision all of this coming together; streetcar, traffic signals & right of way with the current on-going construction. Urbanize, Pete & Urban Pioneer, you guys are a blessing with the knowledge you have shared with us on this forum.


https://www.progressiverailroading.com/resources/editorial/2017/060517-Oklahoma-City-Streetcar-Myriad-Gardens-stop-rendering.jpg
Rendering of the Oklahoma City Streetcar's Myriad Gardens stop. Photo – Embark

Once we get past this building maze in the core, we'll have a better view of the grand scheme in 2020:


Convention Center
OKC Boulevard completion
Omni Convention Center Hotel
Santa Fe Station Intermodal Hub
Scissortail Park
Streetcar

OKC's $2.3 billion (MAPS 3, MAPS 3 extension, GOBonds) investment will transform our entire community; think about the private development that will coincide with the current transformation.

I think some people are focusing too much on how fast the tram will be and not on how convenient it will to not have to park. Once you get to work downtown and put yourself on the 3rd or 4th floor of a parking garage, you don't necessarily want to drive back down the garage, find somewhere to park again, and then drive back up the garage again. Same for thunder games and concerts: you won't have to find a spot to park close to the arena once you park where you want to eat beforehand.

This.

Many downtown workers have to walk to the office from a parking garage or lot. Being able to just walk to the streetcar stop and then ride to lunch with coworkers is a totally different experience than figuring out who is driving, walk to the garage, exit the garage, find a parking spot @ the destination, returning and repeating the first steps in reverse. The concern about it not moving as fast as cars is pointless, even if it did move the same speed - it is still way better for all the reasons posters above have mentioned. But then again, after time - the signal prioritization will be mastered and the streetcar will definitely be faster than cars.

I put this on our Facebook page but thought it would be of interest here.


PROJECT UPDATE- Just now, the Auto Alley streetcar stop under construction at 8th and Broadway.
Workers scramble to prepare Broadway Ave. for the OKC Memorial Marathon this weekend. Streets are being paved and interrupted construction work prepped for this major event.
For those of us experiencing construction fatigue, here are some promising system-wide numbers-
99% of Utilities are clear
77% of Street demolition for Tracks is completed
70% of the Track has been installed
89% of Foundations for Catenary Poles have been installed
13 of 22 Stops have been completed
34% of Overhead contact wire has been installed
100% of Energy substations have been completed
4 of 7 Trains have been delivered
That being stated, be sure to support our local retailers and businesses in the affected areas. It is a tremendous amount of pain to endure the construction impacts. The result will be extraordinarily however for all our citizens and businesses.
Completion and full operation is still on schedule for November - December. Testing of trains is anticipated to start on the B-Line in May.- Jeff Bezdek, Streetcar Oversight Committee Member

You said it well, construction fatigue, I admit living downtown right now is a major heartache. Between the street car, P180 & now OKC Blvd, I'm struggling. I'm all for progress, but yeah, fatigue is settling in. Glad to see those numbers showing how far along it's progressed.

I'm just glad I do live and work downtown. My car rarely leaves my parking garage and I don't have as large of a headache as the drivers do.

I noticed at various places all along the Bricktown loop that during the day yesterday they had blown out and/or powerwashed the track grooves, cleaning out dirt, sand and construction debris. Also noticed today some obviously-technical and probably supervisory personnel from one or more of the firms/organizations involved doing close inspections of the track, measuring between the rails using specialized tools, taking notes etc.. Since all track sections on the Bricktown loop are now complete I took this as an indication that they are doing final technical inspections before they hand track over, and the cleaning probably means that train testing is about to be expanded to the Bricktown loop portion.

I noticed at various places all along the Bricktown loop that during the day yesterday they had blown out and/or powerwashed the track grooves, cleaning out dirt, sand and construction debris. Also noticed today some obviously-technical and probably supervisory personnel from one or more of the firms/organizations involved doing close inspections of the track, measuring between the rails using specialized tools, taking notes etc.. Since all track sections on the Bricktown loop are now complete I took this as an indication that they are doing final technical inspections before they hand track over, and the cleaning probably means that train testing is about to be expanded to the Bricktown loop portion.

That is correct. They will first push the clearance cart through the loop to check clearances with the platform, curbs, and the wire. That will happen before we run a vehicle through it. We also have to energize the line and run electrical connectivity tests. Another element is allowed access on the OKC Boulevard section. Accessibility to that section has to be coordinated and is intermittent.

From Steve's chat this week...


Q: I saw an article about Embark going to Sunday service for buses. Is it just being looked into or is it actually happening?

Larry Hopper, EMBARK: Sunday service is something EMBARK proposed and it's solid enough that the city manager put it into the budget that he proposed. It's highly likely to be in the budget. We could have it start up in January or February. We will need to time to hire. It will operate on the routes that operate on Saturday. It's a big step forward.

This will also expand small bus service for the disabled on curb to curb, which is a huge home run for the disabled.

Q: What does this mean about Sunday service for the streetcar?

Hopper: It won't happen the first year, but it could happen in the following years. We need to have bus service first on Sundays — it is a civil rights issue.

Q: When will EMBARK begin educating the public on the proper protocols for sharing the road with the streetcars? Driving around downtown I see the potential for lots of headaches and repair costs for private vehicles and the streetcars.

Hopper: As of a week ago, we have small video clips out that show how you don't ride your bike on the track or you will get stuck. They're funny to watch. They must be on YouTube. There will be other cartoon clips about park-and-ride, not parking in the streetcar path.

Regarding that last question, EMBARK already HAS started: http://embarkok.com/learn/services/okcstreetcar/streetcarsafe

From newsok:

Streetcar fares set

Streetcars will cost $1 per ride when service begins in December. The Central Oklahoma Transportation and Parking Authority board adopted a consultant's recommended fare schedule. Options will include a day pass for $3 and monthly pass for $32. Streetcar service is planned Monday through Saturday, with limited Sunday service for events such as NBA games.

http://newsok.com/okc-boxscore-for-monday-may-14-2018-streetcar-fares-set/article/5594490?articleBar=1

Anybody ITK know if this will be integrated with the bus system? IE, if I'm getting a monthly pass, do I have to get a separate monthly pass for the bus? Just curious. My only mass transit experience is in Prague, where a monthly pass gets you unlimited transportation on bus, tram and metro.

There will be a pass that is for "downtown circulator" which will cover both the streetcar and downtown discovery (bus), which is changing to supplement streetcar. There will also be a "universal" pass that will be more expensive than the downtown only pass.

This is all in the document which I posted at #7207:
http://embarkok.com/assets/files/meeting_documents/notices/2018/2018_Summer_CM_Packet.pdf

^^ Thanks for the info. $50 a month for a universal pass. Is that pretty comparable to other cities?

It only makes sense to compare if the systems are similar. Some cities have fare zones for example (we don't). Not sure who's system is like ours. Most of the other systems I've used are not like ours. I did a cursory search for Denver, Seattle, and Portland, and they are more, but their systems are also very different.

My initial impression is 'that's a lot of money for not a lot of options' but i really have no base for that, just gut

Honestly it depends on your use. I'm not a daily bus rider,but I'm a reasonably frequent rider. However, I only even buy a monthly bus pass if I'm sure I'm going to use it more than 14 days in a month (roughly the break-even point, with round-trips). I have to take the bus 3-4 days a week to work in order to reach that 14 days. There are some months where there's not as much going on so I can make that and get a pass, but there are other months where I know I've got to go elsewhere straight from work a bunch and so will only ride the bus 1-2 days, if even, those weeks, and so it doesn't make sense to get a pass (waste of money). You just gotta figure out what works best for you. When I don't get a monthly pass, I get a value pass ($21). It doesn't save you any money, but then you don't have to worry about having cash for fare. Now, if the bus was your primary mode of travel (every or most days)? Then the monthly pass is TOTALLY worth it.