Thank you, that’s actually more than I thought. So that’s a positive.

Oops bouldersooner got it answered.

14552

Probably not legible due to size restrictions, so try this one: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XQWGfY5fumUILhqmWErrE4kyOvRJsdEu/

How is it more jarring than the OCS in downtown Denver? It's pretty much identical. Man, I am MUCH more troubled by telephone poles/wires. I don't think the OCS adds that much visual clutter; and actually feels like it communicates a city vibe we didn't have before. OCS is standard all over the country and in fact all over the world.
I hate the overhead wires but I agree about the utility wires. I really wish OKC would bury those, at least in the inner ring for now.

Question for those on the streetcar committee (this may have been answered somewhere in the thread, but I'm not going back through 300 pages of material to find it):

As far as the route goes, how does future expansion factor into this? In other words, was consideration given to the idea that in 10 years or so, we might decide to add a line going to the OU Medical Center? Or the state capitol? Or Capitol Hill? 23rd street?

I've been looking at Google Maps, trying to figure out where a new line would go that would fit into these areas, but I'm just curious as to what the committee's thoughts were on the subject. Is there some easy expansion that I am not seeing? Because right now it looks like any kind of new route would require a significant reworking of at least part of the current system.

This has been discussed a little, most recently that I found find back on post #7034 (http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=20121&page=282&p=1022450#post1022450). I'd be curious for more details, though.

Question for those on the streetcar committee (this may have been answered somewhere in the thread, but I'm not going back through 300 pages of material to find it):

As far as the route goes, how does future expansion factor into this? In other words, was consideration given to the idea that in 10 years or so, we might decide to add a line going to the OU Medical Center? Or the state capitol? Or Capitol Hill? 23rd street?

I've been looking at Google Maps, trying to figure out where a new line would go that would fit into these areas, but I'm just curious as to what the committee's thoughts were on the subject. Is there some easy expansion that I am not seeing? Because right now it looks like any kind of new route would require a significant reworking of at least part of the current system.


There are capabilities for expansions to the NW at 11th and Dewey (Plaza/OCU?), south to Capitol Hill, NE to Health Sciences, NE to Adventure Line, and east to Del City/Midwest City. Some infrastructure has been installed to make some of these connections easier. Certain intersections are designed with the appropriate grade and curvilinear approaches to allow for switches to be added. We have given all of this a great deal of thought and integrated these elements in where financially and physically possible.

Regarding the likelihood of expansion actually happening... I think that has a great deal to do with Mayor David Holt and the business community. If there were ever a time to plan to expand, it would be right now while people are excited about it. Next year is probably the greatest opportunity for a meaningful regional public transit initiative if there ever was one. However, this will take meaningful leadership and courage.

BTW, thanks to all of you who came out on Friday!

14552

Probably not legible due to size restrictions, so try this one: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1XQWGfY5fumUILhqmWErrE4kyOvRJsdEu/

So maybe around 40-45% off wire? That's actually quite a bit more than I thought. So that's great IMO. I definitely think if we could bury overhead power lines everywhere that there is OCS, it would greatly improve the image and I'd be more accepting of it.

I agree if there is a chance at expansion it needs to be on the radar now and front and center when this thing goes live. People are excited about it now, and if you let the new wear off, this may be all OKC gets.

Regarding expansion, would there be the opportunity/openness to double track an extension if it made sense to just do an out and back instead of a loop? For instance, connecting to the existing loop on the northwest corner and just running a line up Classen past 16th, up to 23rd (and potentially further) or would all future expansions be additional loops? Just curious.

Regarding expansion, would there be the opportunity/openness to double track an extension if it made sense to just do an out and back instead of a loop? For instance, connecting to the existing loop on the northwest corner and just running a line up Classen past 16th, up to 23rd (and potentially further) or would all future expansions be additional loops? Just curious.That would be nice.

I am certainly not opposed to double-tracking and actually prefer it. An educated guess is that extensions would be that they would be double tracks. An example is up Classen through the Plaza to OCU. OCU itself might be a circulator route. The same philosophy could be applied to Health Sciences Center.

The Adventure Line is probably a single track with sidings and signalization. The same could be said for Rapid Streetcar to Del City and Midwest City.

Downtown is more or less a circulator. Add spokes to that and you start to have broad impacts. Ingress and egress have to be much more efficient than a circulator though.

Capitol Hill is its own issue. Ideally we would build a double track down Robinson across on SW 25th and back up Exchange through the Farmer's Market and connect back into the main line on Sheridan.

Capitol Hill is its own issue. Ideally we would build a double track down Robinson across on SW 25th and back up Exchange through the Farmer's Market and connect back into the main line on Sheridan.

Yes please

I am certainly not opposed to double-tracking and actually prefer it. An educated guess is that extensions would be that they would be double tracks. An example is up Classen through the Plaza to OCU. OCU itself might be a circulator route. The same philosophy could be applied to Health Sciences Center.

The Adventure Line is probably a single track with sidings and signalization. The same could be said for Rapid Streetcar to Del City and Midwest City.

Downtown is more or less a circulator. Add spokes to that and you start to have broad impacts. Ingress and egress have to be much more efficient than a circulator though.

Capitol Hill is its own issue. Ideally we would build a double track down Robinson across on SW 25th and back up Exchange through the Farmer's Market and connect back into the main line on Sheridan.

What is the likely route to get over to Classen? Looking at the map I am imagining the line going over on 10th at the existing 10th and Dewey intersection, or maybe up Classen Dr. to 13th and then over. And through the Plaza District? That's interesting.

Classen Drive seems like it'd be slightly fewer track miles at least, but then it would probably service fewer businesses, though the folks living at the future Villa Teresa would love it...

I feel like spurring off somewhere on the southern part of the route to then go through film row would be the most idea from a multiple birds with one stone perspective....

What is the likely route to get over to Classen? Looking at the map I am imagining the line going over on 10th at the existing 10th and Dewey intersection, or maybe up Classen Dr. to 13th and then over. And through the Plaza District? That's interesting.
Maybe I'm wrong but it almost seems to me like it would benefit more people by going down 10th and then up through CTP along maybe McKinley or Blackwelder and only touching 16th at the point of intersect rather than trying to run down 16th itself? That way you can service the neighborhood well (and Gatewood, BTW), yet not be bogged by traffic, still fully serve Plaza but also McKinley Park. If you then crossed 16th and found a way through Gatewood you could make it to OCU.

Maybe I'm wrong but it almost seems to me like it would benefit more people by going down 10th and then up through CTP along maybe McKinley or Blackwelder and only touching 16th at the point of intersect rather than trying to run down 16th itself? That way you can service the neighborhood well (and Gatewood, BTW), yet not be bogged by traffic, still fully serve Plaza but also McKinley Park. If you then crossed 16th and found a way through Gatewood you could make it to OCU.

Pie in the sky idea, but how about a double tracked line that goes from OCU (or 23rd and Penn even) east on 23rd, south on classen, east on 13th, southeast on Classen drive, east on 11th (to make the connection at 11th and dewey) then back north to 13th and east to the hospital district.

Might be a bit of a long line, but it would connect OCU, the asian district, uptown (more specifically, all the 23rd street entertainment), the plaza (with a little bit of walking) and the inovationhealthscienceouchildrenshospitalresearchp ark to the original loop.

What are your thoughts on a streetcar line on Sheridan--splinter to Main thru Film Row: Jones Assembly, West Village, 21c Museum Hotel along Film Row then up Classen Dr., ...See David's post #7151 above: "...imagining the line going over on 10th at the existing 10th and Dewey intersection, or maybe up Classen Dr. to 13th and then over. And through the Plaza District?"


https://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/lead630_blur-00734f46b10cb617098db6292b87c1d0.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/21c111217b.jpg
Construction has started on West Village, a $70 million mixed-use development being built by Mark Beffort, Andy Burnett, Zach Martin and Hall Capital.

Film row IMO could have the same potential growth impact as Bricktown.


https://www.alveo-slovakia.com/photo/4387610/paseo-arts-district-real-estate-paseo-arts-district-homes-for-the-paseo-has-a-few-great-restaurants-paseo-grill-and-picasso-cafe-as-well-as.jpg
Further expansion then could proceed from the Plaza District to the Asian District up to 30th to the Paseo District.

My first thought to maximize service options would be a loop that begins at Hudson & Main, westbound to Classen, north to 23rd St, west to Penn, south to 16th, east back to Classen, south to Sheridan, and then east to Hudson. From this point, cars could either continue east along the Bricktown Loop, or turn north back to the starting point at Hudson & Main. This would provide service to 21c / West Village, the Classen Corridor (including Catholic Charities and Sunbeam), office and residential options around 21st and Classen, the very southern edge of the Asian District, OCU, the Plaza District, Sunshine Cleaners building, and Film Row. The Classen corridor would be double-tracked. This would also connect grocery options into the network, including Homeland, Walmart Neighborhood Market, and the former Buy-For-Less (if someone takes the building over and reopens the store). It does involve more track than simply connecting to the downtown loop in Midtown, but I think this would provide more service options.

Yes please

What is the likely route to get over to Classen? Looking at the map I am imagining the line going over on 10th at the existing 10th and Dewey intersection, or maybe up Classen Dr. to 13th and then over. And through the Plaza District? That's interesting.

The Classen Drive and Dewey intersection is where we designed the switching to be to go to the NW.

We need to host a public forum/charrette with The Plaza, Gatewood, and OCU about where/how the community thinks this area should be served. I agree with Urbanized about 16th. If it were to travel down it, the stops would need to be sidings or turnouts and actually leave traffic. Fortunately, there is enough space (ROW) in some key areas to actually pull this off.

If anyone with The Plaza, OCU, or Gatewood wants to reach out to me, feel free. Use the OKC Streetcar Initiative Facebook page messenger to do so or come by my office. We need to do something similar for Farmer's Market and Capitol Hill.

Thanks- Jeff

Living in Shepherd, I would love for the streetcar to eventually get to 23rd and Penn - would barely have to drive at that point!

Jeff - If that part of town, slightly north and/or west of the areas mentioned in your post, falls into the realm of possibility I'd be happy to get involved.

Interesting discussion being had here...seems like now definitely WOULD be the best time to get those conversations started so as not to squander enthusiasm and good will at the time of the completion and launch. Also, having progress towards expansion would defuse the argument that the streetcar isn't about REAL transit, is just a toy, it's for tourists, etc.. Having real discussions regarding route expansion undermines that type of negativity.

Where is Friends for a Better Streetcar System when you need them? Shouldn't they be organizing a grass roots effort to engage the city?

Another question about future routes, what will the path over to the Health Sciences Center look like? I've heard 4th mentioned as the likely route over to Lincoln, but is there any chance it might go up Harrison Ave on the way there? Could be some interesting integration opportunities with the I-235 cap plan, as well as a mild track length savings.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/link4.jpg

On the other hand, I could see the line going through Deep Deuce to be part of the overall goal for that part of the potential expansion.

This may be a completely false rumor... But I thought I would post it in case someone has more information. The source is unreliable, but it seems too specific and random.

Rumor: It has been discovered that there is a design flaw either in our streetcar design or the track design in such that the streetcar cannot make the turns properly.

edit: double post. site is lagging.

This may be a completely false rumor... But I thought I would post it in case someone has more information. The source is unreliable, but it seems too specific and random.

Rumor: It has been discovered that there is a design flaw either in our streetcar design or the track design in such that the streetcar cannot make the turns properly.

Holy cow... That's HUGELY bad if true! I seriously, seriously hope that this rumor is unsubstantiated.

nm

Location Markers going up at the street car stops. 14565

This may be a completely false rumor... But I thought I would post it in case someone has more information. The source is unreliable, but it seems too specific and random.

Rumor: It has been discovered that there is a design flaw either in our streetcar design or the track design in such that the streetcar cannot make the turns properly.

No mention of this on the most recent Agendas for MAPS 3 Board and Streetcar meetings..

also, the streetcar has been turning just fine in and out of the maintenance facility... I think the rumor is bogus.

also, the streetcar has been turning just fine in and out of the maintenance facility... I think the rumor is bogus.

Not to mention it's not being built by Joe Smith construction out of Mustang, OK. It's being constructed by Stacy and Witbeck and Herzog. Both have extensive light rail and streetcar rail installation experience.

That being said, if the rumor were true, it would be the biggest blunder since urban renewal! Made me sweat to even consider this haha...

I'd bet the rumor has spread mostly because testing is being done only on straightaway track right now (they are load testing equipment, testing speed, power delivery, braking, charging, etc and staying close to barn, AND because there were a couple of curved sections which were not installed yet and where the ends of the track had been asphalted over. In the absence of information people tend to infer or make assumptions, and that is how rumors start.

That said, there really is not an absence of info; there is actually a TON of information available on the streetcar, and it is always very up to date. You can of course follow @OKCStreetcar on twitter and Facebook, but you can also go here for the most recent construction info (updated every week): https://okc.gov/government/maps-3/projects/modern-streetcar-transit/modern-streetcar-construction-news OR you can subscribe to the updates and have them sent directly to your e-mail: http://okc.us2.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=c067e0500e2a024737cbed896&id=b50f882414

The curved sections required different manufacturing processes than the straight ones, so they took longer. Also, a number of them required switching, AND required intersection closures, which have been influenced by Project 180, adjacent construction, events, some (relatively minor) meddling from influential organizations which were impacted by said closures, etc.

The trains themselves are basically identical to trains already operating in other cities, so no, this is almost certainly an unfounded rumor.

Here are some ideas for expansion I've drawn in Google Earth. Feedback?

Note: Some lines are overlapped and are, therefore, obscured (the red line makes a complete loop and is partially hidden by the yellow line, for example). Also, lines that appear as one line are double-tracked.

Overall:
http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14568&d=1523413411

North side:
http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14569&d=1523413465

South side:
http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14567&d=1523413391

Here are some ideas for expansion I've drawn in Google Earth. Feedback?

Note: Some lines are overlapped and are, therefore, obscured (the red line makes a complete loop and is partially hidden by the yellow line, for example). Also, lines that appear as one line are double-tracked.

Overall:
http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14568&d=1523413411

North side:
http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14569&d=1523413465

South side:
http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14567&d=1523413391

Imagine 15-20 minute service from Will Rogers Airport to the downtown loop with connections to outer neighborhoods, even Austin doesn't have that!

Please don't extend the streetcar out of downtown area. If any rail is to go across OKC metro, it needs to be grade separated light rail.

^^^^^
I think Capitol Hill, OUHSC, Uptown, Plaza, etc could still be streetcar (though hopefully with more protected ROW), but agree that it needs to switch to fully separated for runs to places like the airport, MWC, Adventure District, etc.

If we would somehow end up with new track right-of-way that is not shared with freight, the street car could change back and forth to shared and non-shared sections, right?

^^^^^
I think Capitol Hill, OUHSC, Uptown, Plaza, etc could still be streetcar (though hopefully with more protected ROW), but agree that it needs to switch to fully separated for runs to places like the airport, MWC, Adventure District, etc.

Oh I agree completely. Even though I'm not a fan of streetcar and would rather see overhead rail, I get OKC isn't ready and I'd more than support a streetcar extension to those areas and in fact I hope one is in the works. It just irks me a little when I see people proposing streetcar lines across the city which would be a huge mistake, imo. I wouldn't necessarily even be against a streetcar running through the Paseo down Western to Penn Square Mall/Classen Curve area. Any further out than that should either be dedicated and grade separated BRT or LRT.

If we would somehow end up with new track right-of-way that is not shared with freight, the street car could change back and forth to shared and non-shared sections, right?
LA has it's light-rail share tracks that are at grade in certain sections which I hate and think the Expo Line is a huge fail because of it, especially around USC. DART does as well but I believe it isn't mixed with vehicle traffic, only crosses it at grade. I could be wrong, but usually light-rail systems will have more cars attached than streetcars do which is usually one or two.

Oh I agree completely. Even though I'm not a fan of streetcar and would rather see overhead rail, I get OKC isn't ready and I'd more than support a streetcar extension to those areas and in fact I hope one is in the works. It just irks me a little when I see people proposing streetcar lines across the city which would be a huge mistake, imo. I wouldn't necessarily even be against a streetcar running through the Paseo down Western to Penn Square Mall/Classen Curve area. Any further out than that should either be dedicated and grade separated BRT or LRT.

Why would it be a huge mistake, particularly?

Why would it be a huge mistake, particularly?

Because dedicated LRT would move much faster than a streetcar could. OKC is probably one of the most pro car cities in the US, I'd say even more so than LA, and they need to focus on making the system as efficient as possible. This includes ensuring the system will cover long distances in a timely manner. I would be willing to guess a trip by streetcar to OCCC from DTOKC would take 40 minutes or maybe longer. That same trip, though the number of stations might be cut down, would probably be around 15-20 minutes. In a car in most conditions, that same trip is around 7-12 minutes and you get to park your car right in front of the building which I'm guessing any transit line will have a stop further away though I would like a stop in the building itself, I just don't see them doing that.

Another reason why I advocate for 24/7/365 service is because your car is always available to you no matter what and transit should be too. If autonomous testing proves feasible, maybe OKC could justify running the service at least 18-20 hours out of the day. Also, if you want people to support the service, keep it out of their way as much as possible. People are irrational and it wouldn't take much to piss people off and have them blame the streetcar for making traffic worse even though it probably wouldn't affect it much. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for your input! What I was trying to accomplish was to sufficiently serve residential neighborhoods with an adequate number of streetcar stops to generate ridership, and for those whom can't afford vehicles. I guess a concern of mine now is: where would the ROW for light rail be located, and yet, also serve these neighborhoods (between the State Capitol and the Adventure District, and the neighborhoods between OCCC and Capitol Hill) sufficiently?

Thanks for your input! What I was trying to accomplish was to sufficiently serve residential neighborhoods with an adequate number of streetcar stops to generate ridership, and for those whom can't afford vehicles. I guess a concern of mine now is: where would the ROW for light rail be located, and yet, also serve these neighborhoods (between the State Capitol and the Adventure District, and the neighborhoods between OCCC and Capitol Hill) sufficiently?

Valid concerns for sure! I know one benefit of streetcars is more stops usually which can entice more ridership depending on the scenario. But I think it boils down to where to riders are going and at some when you further and further from the core, less and less stops are needed and speed needs to increase. Streetcars can only go so fast due to obvious safety reasons, so grade separated light-rail is the way to go there. I have been working on a small Google maps project that is a civic project wish list of mine and I have considered posting it but it isn't quite done. It shows my rail wish list which includes street cars for OKC, Edmond, and Norman. As I said, I normally don't like street cars except for smaller towns and tourist areas, since I think tourist usually like street cars. But I do have a rather expansive list of rail lines I'd like to see which includes a rail tunnel under Bricktown and Deep Deuce.

Any expansion should take into account a possible regional rail system. Hopefully the streetcar would work in conjunction with commuter rail to and from Norman, Edmond, etc.

But to be perfectly blunt, when it comes to extending the streetcar and choosing where it'll go, I think we're going to have to balance politically attractive options with serving poorer communities. The Wheeler District currently has a population of zero, but undoubtedly there's going to be a big push to connect that area to downtown with the streetcar. We could serve a vastly greater number of people by running a double tracked north/south line on Martin Luther King. How much support do you think will exist for that route?

On the one hand, the streetcar should help get people to destination places. When a visitor comes to OKC, where do they go for fun? Being able to take the streetcar and go from their downtown hotel to the OKC Zoo, Paseo, OUHSC, Wheeler District, Stockyards City, there's a real benefit to that. It would let you hit the highlights of OKC's "fun stuff" without getting in your car. Nobody would ever have to wonder 'what is there to do in this town?', because the streetcar will take you there. It could link thriving business areas with entertainment options, and trendy high priced residential areas that are under construction. On the other hand, going through poor communities will serve a larger number of people, give them needed transportation options, and will give us much higher ridership numbers. There's going to have to be some kind of compromise that both serves the existing population, and where voters are going to be willing to pay a premium to run their fancy new streetcars there.

In my mind I have always thought Shields would be perfect for reaching the south side both from a ridership impact and a park and ride option for commuters. As someone who takes I-35 every day, it is AWFUL.

Shields has a large ROW with a large median for most of the stretch almost to Moore. Double track could be installed with almost no impact to the roadway. It would serve low income residents on the inner south side, the Latino community in the "mid" south side (44th-74th) and would be able to serve commuters with various PNR lot opportunities. There is also plenty of underutilized lots that eventually would be able to take advantage of TOD.

Unfortunately I seem to be the only one who thinks this.... lol

I think the first expansion to the south side should run a double track down Robinson to 25th street. That gives you Capitol Hill, and drops off riders right in the most historic looking part of Capitol Hill. 29th is a busier street, but it's all... ugly. Then you run an east-west double track on 25th from Shields to Western. That would be "step one" of the south side system. You connect downtown to a cool area where people can see lots of potential, and you set the stage for some expansion lines that will service a greater population.

Ultimately (for the south side), I think you could have a double track go down Shields all the way to maybe 59th street (past that, it's mostly commercial and not residential). You also have a line that goes up and down Western. That can run all the way from probably SW 70th or so, all the way up to NW 63rd. It would be probably the longest, busiest streetcar line in the city. The east/west line on 25th would then jog down Western until it hit 29th (past Western, 25th is purely residential). Take 29th over to Agnew.

You'd also have a line that ran from downtown, on Exchange over to Agnew. You could connect it down to SW 59th. That lets people downtown visit Stockyards City and go to Cattleman's.

I'd have one more east/west line, probably on 59th street. It would run from Shields over to Penn, maybe Agnew.

This kind of system would hit most areas within the I-240 loop. You could have a "tourist" loop that hit the Stockyards and Capitol Hill and then connected to downtown quickly. Then you'd have some longer routes that primarily served residential areas. It's easy enough to tell visitors "take the blue streetcar going south to see the fun stuff".

I'm thinking something like this: (highlighted colors are just what showed up best, not necessarily indicative of any specific route):

14570

And I don't know how to make this picture bigger.

In my mind I have always thought Shields would be perfect for reaching the south side both from a ridership impact and a park and ride option for commuters. As someone who takes I-35 every day, it is AWFUL.

Shields has a large ROW with a large median for most of the stretch almost to Moore. Double track could be installed with almost no impact to the roadway. It would serve low income residents on the inner south side, the Latino community in the "mid" south side (44th-74th) and would be able to serve commuters with various PNR lot opportunities. There is also plenty of underutilized lots that eventually would be able to take advantage of TOD.

Unfortunately I seem to be the only one who thinks this.... lol

Interesting, as this was the historical route for the interurban line down to Norman. I agree, a streetcar line down Shields to at least I-240 has a lot of potential, from a TOD standpoint and a ridership standpoint. Service to Capitol Hill and various other southside destinations could branch off from the Shields line; however, this could potentially compete with the proposed commuter rail line as Shields roughly parallels the BNSF corridor. Still, utilizing the Shields corridor isn't a bad idea at all, in my opinion.

For reference, here's where the streetcar used to go, back in the day: http://www.acogok.org/transportation-planning/maps-and-data/historical-streetcar-routes/

Interesting, as this was the historical route for the interurban line down to Norman. I agree, a streetcar line down Shields to at least I-240 has a lot of potential, from a TOD standpoint and a ridership standpoint. Service to Capitol Hill and various other southside destinations could branch off from the Shields line; however, this could potentially compete with the proposed commuter rail line as Shields roughly parallels the BNSF corridor. Still, utilizing the Shields corridor isn't a bad idea at all, in my opinion.

For reference, here's where the streetcar used to go, back in the day: http://www.acogok.org/transportation-planning/maps-and-data/historical-streetcar-routes/

True there would be some level of service overlap, but streetcar would have better frequency than the commuter rail anyway. I'm not sure there would be a commuter rail stop between 240 and downtown so I don't think there would really be any overlap.

True there would be some level of service overlap, but streetcar would have better frequency than the commuter rail anyway. I'm not sure there would be a commuter rail stop between 240 and downtown so I don't think there would really be any overlap.

As currently proposed, yes, there would be a commuter rail stop next to Crossroads/Plaza Mayor, and one at approximately SE 25th and Shields. http://www.acogblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/eastcorridor.png Granted, whether or not that commuter rail plan will actually be implemented remains to be seen. That said, I can agree with you about the higher level of service for the streetcar, and the streetcar would certainly go places that the commuter rail could not.

More information about the RTA's proposed commuter rail and streetcar routes can be found here: http://www.acogok.org/commuter-corridors-regional-transit-rail-mpo/. As per our previous discussions about an extension of the streetcar up Classen, it's important to note that ACOG is proposing a streetcar line from Midtown, up Classen to NW 63rd, to a proposed commuter rail stop there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc-OuC1xe5s
Here's a video of the streetcar making turns from the maintenance facility as one poster cited.


This may be a completely false rumor... But I thought I would post it in case someone has more information. The source is unreliable, but it seems too specific and random.

Rumor: It has been discovered that there is a design flaw either in our streetcar design or the track design in such that the streetcar cannot make the turns properly.

Hope we can put this rumor to rest; Anonymous, let's hope this eases all of our potential future concerns.

Hope we can put this rumor to rest; Anonymous, let's hope this eases all of our potential future concerns.

Sure, but can it turn the other direction?

It's a streetcar, not a nascar

Seeing and driving on the mayhem that is broadway in AA. Why didn’t they just close this entire street and nuke the whole street? The street is completely trashed with randomly filled asphalt areas and it was already in bad condition before. Seeing all the time they took to replace the fake brick stuff in the intersections is infuriating. Keeping the sidewalks opened and closing the street entirely (save for a few ped crossing) to do a total re-do would have been the best bet.

This street was garbage condition before the rails went in, and now with all the patching and whatnot they have made it worse.

/rant

The patching is for the Memorial Marathon. It will be dug up and have concrete laid for the final toll.

I drive Broadway every day in AA and agree it's a mess. But i think you are being a little dramatic. As noted, they are under pressure to have the road reopened for the marathon, and are doing temporary work where able to accommodate that. The finished areas look great.

I understand I am being dramatic, I even said my post was a rant - I had just gotten done driving through there and I had to check my wheels to make sure nothing was bent afterwards. Even if the temporary patches will be redone, it will still look and feel pretty bootleg for such a high-class street. They should have used this opportunity to redo the entire strip, including removing the brick stamped patterns in the intersections. I mean we still have zero crosswalk indication at most of these areas. Unless there is some master plan I am unaware of, I would love to be proven wrong.

Isn’t there a plan to add signals to those intersections?

I understand I am being dramatic, I even said my post was a rant - I had just gotten done driving through there and I had to check my wheels to make sure nothing was bent afterwards. Even if the temporary patches will be redone, it will still look and feel pretty bootleg for such a high-class street. They should have used this opportunity to redo the entire strip, including removing the brick stamped patterns in the intersections. I mean we still have zero crosswalk indication at most of these areas. Unless there is some master plan I am unaware of, I would love to be proven wrong.

Ideally yes, but remember this is streetcar work. The scope is limited to directly what the track installation impacts. The city ideally should have redone Broadway in concrete, and reimagined pedestrian interaction, crossings, and traffic calming measures. But that would probably be a $20-30 million dollar reconstruction. It has to come from someone's budget, and I don't think the streetcar budget should be responsible.

Thanks for the replies catch22. Yea I didn't meant to intend that redoing the street should come from the streetcar budget. I am just saying this is like one of those missed opportunities and we will be closing this street down again in the next 5 years to redo it properly. This was more of a frustration rant. Much like the P180/Streetcar construction interaction has been a joke, this is likely another area of hindsight.

Thanks for the replies catch22. Yea I didn't meant to intend that redoing the street should come from the streetcar budget. I am just saying this is like one of those missed opportunities and we will be closing this street down again in the next 5 years to redo it properly. This was more of a frustration rant. Much like the P180/Streetcar construction interaction has been a joke, this is likely another area of hindsight.

I don't disagree, I thought you were implying the streetcar work should have encompassed reconstructing the whole street. My apologies.

There's plenty of missed opportunities. Fortunately we have so many projects going right now, and unfortunately they don't always line up.