I hope OKC s streetcar looks better than Cincinnati's.

I could be remembering wrong but back when INEKON was chosen, at a city council meeting the representitives from the American company were there and were hoping to instead get the project but at one point they said that INEKON was about to be bought by China. I never bothered to look up the validity to their claim or thought it matter much since they have a long history of making streetcars but urban pioneer or someone who might know, could that have soemthing to do with them missing such an easy deadline ?

Not directly related to OKC's project, but thought this was interesting: PHOTOS: Cincinnati?s First Modern Streetcar Arrives in Over-the-Rhine ? UrbanCincy (http://www.urbancincy.com/2015/11/photos-cincinnatis-first-modern-streetcar-arrives-in-over-the-rhine/)


And here is a link to Kansas City's delivery that happened yesterday by the same company, CAF. Very excited for both cities.

http://www.kansascity.com/news/government-politics/article42201072.html

I hope OKC s streetcar looks better than Cincinnati's.

Just curious, what offends your eye about their vehicle?

I could be remembering wrong but back when INEKON was chosen, at a city council meeting the representitives from the American company were there and were hoping to instead get the project but at one point they said that INEKON was about to be bought by China. I never bothered to look up the validity to their claim or thought it matter much since they have a long history of making streetcars but urban pioneer or someone who might know, could that have soemthing to do with them missing such an easy deadline ?

Basically, it is my understanding that there was an attempt by a major Chinese businessman to buy a majority stake in INEKON. Ultimately, the Czech owner, Josef, decided not to sell the stake to him. The Chinese are investing in nearly everything. I think that this investor thought that the rapid expansion in China's urban infrastructure would also translate to manufacturing streetcars for their cities. Regardless, Josef is a very proud dude from what I understand and decided to retain majority ownership.

Thanks for the response but that makes sense. Although it further adds to how weird it is INEKON didn't meet the simple deadline.

I notice that many other cities have decided to number their new streetcars where they left off when the old systems were dismantled decades ago. Are we planning on doing the same thing here? It'd be a really neat nod to our history.

Not directly related to OKC's project, but thought this was interesting: PHOTOS: Cincinnati?s First Modern Streetcar Arrives in Over-the-Rhine ? UrbanCincy (http://www.urbancincy.com/2015/11/photos-cincinnatis-first-modern-streetcar-arrives-in-over-the-rhine/)

There were streetcar sightings all over Ohio while the oversize motorcade was going down 75. It was quite the social media welcome. I like the yellow. KC's are oddly bus-looking.

My money says ours will be Thunder colors...

Emergency meetings have been called for both the Streetcar Subcommittee and MAPS Oversight Board.

There is also this article from Saturday- Oklahoma City streetcar contract falls into jeopardy | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-streetcar-contract-falls-into-jeopardy/article/5457751)

Can anyone say "Brookville"?

I am going into a streetcar branding meeting today. Will bring up the Thunder colors!

Here is the Dallas hybrid streetcar by Brookville.

https://vimeo.com/126637036 (https://vimeo.com/126637036)

Demonstration of Dallas streetcar going catenary free (wireless).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRBGFnC_vXk

I would be pretty happy to see the OKC streetcar supporting a PA-based manufacturer and the broader American high-tech manufacturing economy. Has Brookville ever had any issues like INEKON's well-reported ones?

The delays and additional 1 million in cost (or so it seems) kind of suck...

Based on how things are going, I think we might experience faster delivery with Brookville. If INEKON can't even get their paperwork in on time, I can't see how Brookville can do worse. Plus, one would think there would be a higher level of physical accountability with an American manufacturer. Seattle actually had to send their program manager to the Czech Republic to rattle their cage!

Also, remember, Brookville hired the law firm Phillips Murrah to contest the INEKON selection. That was on trivial technical matters. However, it demonstrates that they were willing to fight for the contract. Plus, in theory, there are efficiencies to be gained by piggybacking on Dallas' exercised options and Detroit's program.

I am not advocating. Just pointing out that quite a bit has happened that all counts towards confidence in Brookville's capability to perform on time. The most important being Dallas' system coming online as scheduled.

Is it to late in the game for any federal money if we do use brookville? As far as second choices go I think it's a win win for us and them. I am curious though if enough time has passed to where it will have to be re-bid or if it is as easy and just choosing the streetcar that was a second.

Is it to late in the game for any federal money if we do use brookville? As far as second choices go I think it's a win win for us and them. I am curious though if enough time has passed to where it will have to be re-bid or if it is as easy and just choosing the streetcar that was a second.

We do not have to go through the bidding process again. This might make receiving a Federal grant easier in an expansion scenario. Timing wise, our schedule is too compressed to pursue Federal funding on the primary first five vehicles.

Awesome, again thanks for always answering questions!

OKCTALK is a great forum and provides an awesome public service to our community! I am thrilled with people's interest in our project! Many thanks to all of you for supporting OKC Streetcar!

UP I did have another thought with the moving of the convention center and the location of the maintaince facility, how possible would it be to run the streetcar in the new Central Park. Say in front the union station over to Robinson by the cc and then into Bricktown or some variation of that.
The idea came to me watching a movie and seeing a streetcar in Europe taking part of its path through a public square and I realized we like to put them only on streets but it could work to connect to the maintaince facility without having to run a line on the west side of the park. Biggest problem I see is Hargreaves having to tweak a few things and the elevation changes that I think would exist between the park and Robinson there.
Again it would be the same idea of a spur line to mainly serve the CC and park to connect it to the main route but would allow it to have a dual purpose of sorts. With the park being so far along I'm sure it's not possible but I will be curious how everything works out now that we have our CC location and ideally want and need the streetcar to connect to it with a line to carry people easily into Bricktown.

Based on how things are going, I think we might experience faster delivery with Brookville. If INEKON can't even get their paperwork in on time, I can't see how Brookville can do worse. Plus, one would think there would be a higher level of physical accountability with an American manufacturer. Seattle actually had to send their program manager to the Czech Republic to rattle their cage!

Also, remember, Brookville hired the law firm Phillips Murrah to contest the INEKON selection. That was on trivial technical matters. However, it demonstrates that they were willing to fight for the contract. Plus, in theory, there are efficiencies to be gained by piggybacking on Dallas' exercised options and Detroit's program.

I am not advocating. Just pointing out that quite a bit has happened that all counts towards confidence in Brookville's capability to perform on time. The most important being Dallas' system coming online as scheduled.

This all sounds great, I echo the appreciation of others.

I did just look up Brookville, which is apparently the next town over from Punxsatawney. So as long as that streetcar doesn't see its shadow, sounds like we'll be okay!

My major concern is, if we go with Brookville instead of INEKON, the contract for the 5 initial vehicles will cost us about $1.5 million more. What will we lose by paying more for the vehicles?

Oklahoma City leaders to seek streetcar deal with second-place manufacturer | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-leaders-to-seek-streetcar-deal-with-second-place-manufacturer/article/5457976)

UP I did have another thought with the moving of the convention center and the location of the maintaince facility, how possible would it be to run the streetcar in the new Central Park. Say in front the union station over to Robinson by the cc and then into Bricktown or some variation of that.

I actually went to the Parks Subcommittee meeting a week or so ago and proposed your idea as an alternative. I wanted to see whether we would have support from the Parks Subcommittee. Unfortunately, there wasn't a quorum by the end of the meeting so I am not sure that I got a representative response.

However, the response from Hargreaves was instantaneous. Mary Margaret Jones is totally and unequivocally against the idea. She expressed a fear of bifurcating the sidewalk leading up the Skydance bridge. I got the sense that there is this fear that (streetcar = high speed light rail) and that we would be disruptive to the aura that they are trying to create within the park. Her exact quote in the public meeting is that such a proposal "would ruin the park." I don't really agree with that perspective. I think that there are many locations where it has been demonstrated that streetcar is 'low impact' and very friendly to pedestrian environments. Because of the reaction from the Park Consultant, I have no idea whether such considerations have legitimate traction without direct instruction from the Park Subcommittee, Oversight Board, City Staff, or City Council. One must admire her passion though. I rarely run into such an 'activist consultant' in other parts of the MAPS processes.

This idea of "looping around the park" is however not without legitimate flaws. The biggest flaw is that coming down Robinson and returning back up Hudson does absolutely nothing to connect the Convention Center and the Park to Bricktown. If you talk to the Convention Center folks, such a connection is desired by them.

I have alternative ideas that resolve all of these problems. However, I am waiting to see where the support lies internally and whether any of these ideas can gain traction. Most of us on the subcommittee are completely against options that can not be properly integrated into the operational flow of the main line. There will be more on this the next few coming months.

City Staff, the Subcommittee, Oversight Board, and City Council are pretty focussed on resolving the immediate fire... shifting from INEKON to Brookville in an attempt to salvage the revised schedule.

Urban, what about the possibility of a running down Robinson (or maybe even Gaylord), going west on the new boulevard, and then back up Hudson? The way I'm imagining this it would be a modification to the main route as opposed to a side spur or loop. It wouldn't even increase the length of the track required much either since it'd be moving a block or two of the Reno route south and would take advantage of the maintenance spur that will already be going down Hudson. The only length of track not already planned for somewhere would be the leg down Robinson or Gaylord.

It would also give the city an excuse to revise the new boulevard along that stretch to fix some of the pedestrian problems that ODOT is currently working hard to inflict on us.

Well, in my world such an idea should be considered. It would however require ODOT to work with City Staff to make it happen. However, that project and it's final designs by ODOT are obscured from public view. No one in the public domain really knows what is going on with it or what their final designs actually look like. I have no idea if actually making a integrated proposal happen is even possible as it relies on a cooperative ODOT to make it happen.

I cannot put my finger on it, maybe it reminds me of a larger version of Houston's airport tram

My money says ours will be Thunder colors...

Such ideas were discussed at length yesterday.

UP, could the track not exit the facility to the east, and then run BEHIND Union Station (either on the RR ROW or just in that space on south end of north park? This would perhaps put track on both sides of the park, if it didn't make sense to switch that southern leg of the route to the east side of the park. If it exited to the east and ran behind Union Station it would require some modification to the pedestrian run-up to SkyDance Bridge, but there is a tunnel already existing under Robinson that would allow a car (probably off-wire) to loop around and join up with Robinson at SW 7th. Frankly, I always assumed to some extent that the tunnel under Robinson was built with the streetcar in mind.

This solution would allow the maintenance facility to remain in its planned location and the park to remain almost completely unaffected, except with even better streetcar access.

UP, could the track not exit the facility to the east, and then run BEHIND Union Station (either on the RR ROW or just in that space on south end of north park? This would perhaps put track on both sides of the park, if it didn't make sense to switch that southern leg of the route to the east side of the park. If it exited to the east and ran behind Union Station it would require some modification to the pedestrian run-up to SkyDance Bridge, but there is a tunnel already existing under Robinson that would allow a car (probably off-wire) to loop around and join up with Robinson at SW 7th. Frankly, I always assumed to some extent that the tunnel under Robinson was built with the streetcar in mind.

This solution would allow the maintenance facility to remain in its planned location and the park to remain almost completely unaffected, except with even better streetcar access.

There really isn't any advantage to running behind Union Station. I actually went and walked it yesterday. The built up grade and sidewalks leading up to Skydance Bridge create a substantial barrier that I would assume would come with a substantial cost. It would essentially require another tunnel under this embankment. Is it technically possible to go behind Union Station, yes. There is space. It would require twists and turns though. We have enough of those already.

Plus, this idea of encircling the park does not resolve direct connectivity to Bricktown.

The tunnel offers an opportunity for the streetcar to literally run through the Convention Center complex. It doesn't offer much more than that as it relates to addressing concerns had by the Park consultants. In fact, it would be more invasive of an alignment.

Well glad to know the idea isn't compeletly crazy and I know it's not her job to come up with solutions but I'd be curious if she had any other ideas for how to integrate the streetcar around the park to connect with the CC.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTYb3Xvl6aTJYI2BsgJEvEIhJoW3Rq_x AO6otJ0LRlvqQbUnvCQ https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTgSHdPjj2ZuLEwd3LH4yrKzd93e_EEs VyjIWIRKADWdeA5g61jMg

Hope they can sand blast or use some method to restore Santa Fe Station back to its original façade look. Among the few historic places left in OKC that will avoid the wrecking ball. This project will be worth its preservation efforts alone.

Sand or even soda blasting is discouraged on those types of stains on limestone, which are organic in origin. It's a lot like mildew stains in your shower. Generally it can be cleaned with a chemical compound, often including bleach or some other oxidizing agent. Blasting damages the surface, grout lines, etc., and can lead to water intrusion and freeze/thaw issues.

Oklahoma City is ready to switch streetcar manufacturers | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/5458065?utm_source=NewsOK.com&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=ShareBar-Twitter)

Progress...

Streetcar builder switch gets MAPS 3 advisory panels' OK | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/streetcar-builder-switch-gets-maps-3-advisory-panels-ok/article/5458402)

I hope OKC s streetcar looks better than Cincinnati's.

I agree with posters on their site, their streetcar does look quite small. ..

The City has submitted these drawings for design approval in Bricktown but all the stops / platforms will be similar along the route:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetcar110615a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetcar110615b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetcar110615c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetcar110615d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetcar110615e.jpg

Those aren't much better than our bus stops that actually have shelters. We could do better.

This late in the game its probably better at least to consider Brookville (2nd bidder); they've done a decent job with the Dallas streetcars as they prepare to transition to off wire.

Trolley | Streetcar Division - Brookville Equipment Corporation (http://www.brookvillecorp.com/streetcar-division.asp)

INEKON initial performance raises the question if they can deliver their product on time as promised. Seattle's experience with them should indicate what's ahead if we don't sever ties.

Brookville's track record should be taken into consideration. They will probably be a delay with our target date for rolling out the streetcar; however, how much of a delay would it be to award this contract to Brookville as opposed to a continuance with INEKON.

Streetcar contract thrown into doubt as manufacturer misses deadline | News OK (http://newsok.com/streetcar-contract-thrown-into-doubt-as-manufacturer-misses-deadline/article/5457043)

The modern streetcar transit symbolizes the future OKC as we continue to brand ourselves as a 'Big League City.'

Those aren't much better than our bus stops that actually have shelters. We could do better.

EMBARK wants the same supplier BRASCO for the streetcar stops for ease of maintenance. Hans Butzer is the architect who designed the stops and chose the shelters.

There was also a emphasis from Public Works desiring a "low impact" design to minimize tearing up Project 180 sidewalks.

Not saying I disagree with you. I don't. This is how this particular concept came into being. It is however, nicer than Portland's or Seattle's small stops. My frustration with it is the lack of integrated screens for advertising to generate additional revenue.

Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense. My opinion was based on my experience with streetcar stops in other cities (haven't ridden the streetcar in Seattle [lots of buses though and the light rail] or Portland), but they probably didn't have some of the considerations that we have.

Portland's streetcar stops (not to be confused with the Max stops) are borderline equivalent and in some cases worse than the proposed OKC shelters. Looks good. Glad to see more details emerge!

Those shelters look weak.

I would prefer enclosed with advertising board or even interactive touchscreen like modern shelters have now. You can have scrolling weather, news, tourism info, arrival times etc. Heck even go a step further and put live GPS of the current running cars on a map.

http://cdn.mtlblog.com/uploads/2014/04/1457544_10152058347334797_2048070586_n.jpg

With Oklahoma wind, you need a shelter with the most walls possible. You can even power the screen/advertisement via solar panels on the roof.

Is this asking too much? I want this to be done right the first time, before we pay for these shelters, then have to tear them out 10 years later to update with the times.

Well... in theory you're not waiting more than 10-15 mins, so...

Anonymous, that is a very nice design. Where is that located for reference? I can tell you that "Next Train" arrival information will be incorporated into the the stops. There will be power installed to each stop to power the LED's in the "pylon" and the "Next Train" board.

However, it is my opinion that this city has a fairly questionable policy as it relates to advertising at transit stops. I think it is a huge, missed opportunity. Someone from Kansas City tweeted their shelter displays which incorporate a touch screen map and advertising. This is what I would like to see.

We are on a budget and that is a factor as well. The pylons are a nice touch however and dedicated electrical service to each stop does enable flexibility to incorporate technology as it and city policy evolves.

Brascoo has numerous different shelter types and I don't think the rendering does it justice. Looking at their site the eclipse style(the one referenced in the graphic was the one that caught my eye first. It does have solar capabilities as well has ad video boards that can go up. I do like them more when the front is partial closed but it's not a bad looking shelter. 11765 11764
A few other styles just for the sake of seeing what they have are :117661176711768

I have tweeted to Kansas City Streetcar to see who the vendor was for their interactive kiosks.http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11769&stc=1

@KClightrail just responded. Very cool stuff!

https://data.kcmo.org/dataset/Smart-City-Advisory-Board-Meeting-Project-Summary-/pf53-ehgm

Anonymous, that is a very nice design. Where is that located for reference? I can tell you that "Next Train" arrival information will be incorporated into the the stops. There will be power installed to each stop to power the LED's in the "pylon" and the "Next Train" board.

However, it is my opinion that this city has a fairly questionable policy as it relates to advertising at transit stops. I think it is a huge, missed opportunity. Someone from Kansas City tweeted their shelter displays which incorporate a touch screen map and advertising. This is what I would like to see.

We are on a budget and that is a factor as well. The pylons are a nice touch however and dedicated electrical service to each stop does enable flexibility to incorporate technology as it and city policy evolves.



They are in Montreal, and are also touchscreen interactive.

http://cdn.mtlblog.com/uploads/2014/04/555982_10152058347329797_1769896756_n.jpg

Looks like the kiosks that KC has installed are the "KCity III (http://www.mdks.com/product.asp?id13b=658&id13=53&par13=0)" kiosks from MDKS, Inc.

Looks like MDKS has a bunch of options, too.

There is very well-established company who does these types of touch-screen kiosks in hotels and other hospitality centers worldwide, and their North American headquarters is in right here in Oklahoma City, in Bricktown. They are called Monscierge (https://www.monscierge.com/).

You all should check out some of the transit placemaking that KCATA has done along their Troost BRT... I'm working on a project to do something like this in Columbus right now.

http://www.kcata.org/images/uploads/31Rendering.jpg
http://www.kcata.org/images/uploads/39DayNight.jpg

There is very well-established company who does these types of touch-screen kiosks in hotels and other hospitality centers worldwide, and their North American headquarters is in right here in Oklahoma City, in Bricktown. They are called Monscierge (https://www.monscierge.com/).

I looked at their website and really couldn't find an outdoor product. They seem mostly geared towards hotels as well. It would be cool to have a local vendor educate us about it though. EMBARK needs to embrace advertising to generate revenue directly.

^^^^^^
I have been talking with them about an application that is quite a bit different from their regular stuff. Discussions have included lots of customization and also outdoor use as a possibility. They are open to and experienced in both areas. They also would really like to do some work in OKC. Their work is usually all over the country and in fact the world. It's worth a meeting.

City picks streetcar manufacturer (http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/city-reaches-deal-with-streetcar-manufacturer-b99615600z1-347615961.html)

City of Milwaukee just chose Brookville as manufacturer of their streetcars also.

Does Oklahoma City's streetcar route need to be remapped? | News OK (http://newsok.com/does-oklahoma-citys-streetcar-route-need-to-be-remapped/article/5460931)

So obviously I want to connect to Capitol Hill ASAP more than anyone, but it's important to strike a balance. You don't want a system with a mile-long leg with few stops and few riders. It would be nice if we could do Plaza and Capitol Hill at the same time (or at least Classen/16 down to Robinson/25). The reality is that there is more rider demand that can be picked up en route to the Plaza than Capitol Hill. It's also pretty important that at some point in these initial expansions, the state chips in so we can connect to the Capital / OUHSC jobs.

So obviously I want to connect to Capitol Hill ASAP more than anyone, but it's important to strike a balance. You don't want a system with a mile-long leg with few stops and few riders. It would be nice if we could do Plaza and Capitol Hill at the same time (or at least Classen/16 down to Robinson/25). The reality is that there is more rider demand that can be picked up en route to the Plaza than Capitol Hill. It's also pretty important that at some point in these initial expansions, the state chips in so we can connect to the Capital / OUHSC jobs.
I don't see anything in that article that really pits the Plaza against Capitol Hill or advocates making a change to include Capitol Hill at the expense of the Plaza District.

Does Oklahoma City's streetcar route need to be remapped? | News OK (http://newsok.com/does-oklahoma-citys-streetcar-route-need-to-be-remapped/article/5460931)

NO.

Just allocate more $ to build a spur for the CC and use CC dollars (or Maps 4) to fund it. Sick and tired of the CC messing around with the other MAPS projects. The Streetcar route is chosen, put in the darn rails. If another area gets hot (such as the CC site) then add it in later.

We will be discussing the southernmost portion of the streetcar route at our meeting tomorrow. There are solutions that do not involve major changes to over 2/3rds of the route which is currently at the 60% drawings stage.

It is going to be a busy meeting.