Well guys, this campaign has officially gotten dirty.

There was a man on my property at NW 23rd and I-44 stealing the MAPS 3 signs that I had placed around the property just about 1 hour ago.

This man was about 6'2 with an athletic build and in his late forties with lengthy gray hair and had a short beard. He was driving a Newer Gray Toyota Tundra with the license plate possibly being from my memory 440 EOI. And this definitely wasn't the first place he had targeted. He had a stack of signs in his pickup bed...at least 10 deep.

I saw him as he removed my sign. I confronted him and he threw the sign back in my face, yelled at me for supporting maps, and drove off. I yelled at him to get off my private property and he was trespassing. He had removed at least 4-5 yard signs off my property.

Campaigning like this is dirty and shameful. If anyone has or spots anybody removing signs on private property in this nature, please contact the news media and the police department. Also contact the MAPS campaign office.

I have been actively involved in supporting this campaign, and this isn't the first time my signs have been stolen. But this is the first time I caught the perpetrators.

Report him to the police. That is a crime.

Report him to the police. That is a crime.

I'm sure they'll make investigation of this matter a top priority.

I call bullsh!t.

This is a shame!I am a delivery driver,and I have routes allover the city,I have seen pro MAPS signs in one spot one day and the next day they are gone!anyways vote YEs on DEC. 8th!!!

I yelled at him to get off my private property and he was trespassing.

You took a line write out of their quote book!

I call bullsh!t.

You call bull**** good sir. Come visit me. I have witnesses including my own customers and one of my employees that opposes maps saw it. Come and visit me good sir.

I'm sure they'll make investigation of this matter a top priority.

Of course they would.

I call bullsh!t.

Matt, with all due respect, GQ is one of the few people on this site I know. He's not the sort to make these sorts of things up. If he says this happened, it happened.

You call bull**** good sir. Come visit me. I have witnesses including my own customers and one of my employees that opposes maps saw it. Come and visit me good sir.

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1006/lolwp.gif

I'll be right over.

And I'll take the rest of your signs.

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1006/lolwp.gif

I'll be right over.

And I'll take the rest of your signs.

How about you just come and bring the rest of my signs that were stolen back. I'm sure YOU would know exactly where they are.

That is just wrong. What a lowlife.

How about you just come and bring the rest of my signs that were stolen back. I'm sure YOU would know exactly where they are.

Yes, because I'm the one who orchestrated the taking of your signs in the first place, which I then said sounded like bullsh!t, which in itself was right after I said I was a yes vote (http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/20050-im-offical-maps-campaign-volunteer-3.html#post277759).

It's all part of my underhanded scheme, you see. Playing one side against the other, in bed with everybody. . . fabulous stuff, man.

I call bullsh!t.
It happens with every election, during the presidential election there were reports that made the news (with surveillance video) of Obama and McCain signs being taken from yards in the Austin area, I am pretty sure it happens everywhere.

Some people just need to get a real life instead of the pathetic existences that they call one.

Look Matt, I've never met you and don't know who you are.

All I know is that it is not nice to attack someones credibility that you do not know, UNLESS YOU are attacked first. I didn't attack you in any way, so please, further refrain from any attacks on my character. Thanks.

Matt, with all due respect, GQ is one of the few people on this site I know. He's not the sort to make these sorts of things up. If he says this happened, it happened.

Right on. Still sounds like bullsh!t to me, but right on.

Look Matt, I've never met you and don't know who you are.

All I know is that it is not nice to attack someones credibility that you do not know, UNLESS YOU are attacked first. I didn't attack you in any way, so please, further refrain from any attacks on my character. Thanks.

Sir! I'm not attacking you personally, just saying your story sounds bogus to me. That's all.

Sir! I'm not attacking you personally, just saying your story sounds bogus to me. That's all.

So, you think calling someone a liar is not a personal attack?

WTF?

Sir! I'm not attacking you personally, just saying your story sounds bogus to me. That's all.
You don't think it happens? Just Google political signs stolen...
It comes up with this...

Results 1 - 10 of about 6,200,000 for political signs stolen.

It was probably this guy... He's on "administrative leave," which we are paying for.

NewsOK (http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-police-sergeant-charged-in-abuse-of-two/article/3422801)

So, you think calling someone a liar is not a personal attack?

WTF?

I know, right? How very dare me.


You don't think it happens? Just Google political signs stolen...
It comes up with this...

Did I say that I think it never happens? No, just that I don't think it happened here. At least not in the way described. But thanks for the Google "evidence," anyway. http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1006/lolwp.gif

I know, right? How very dare me.



Did I say that I think it never happens? No, just that I don't think it happened here. At least not in the way described. But thanks for the Google "evidence," anyway. http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/1006/lolwp.gif

You're entitled to your opinion, but I drove by the establishment earlier today, which is near my house, and it had a huge Yes MAPS sign right in front of the main entrance. That was this afternoon.

I just went over there and there's no sign there, so it's definitely gone. Perhaps the guy's license plate number, auto description and personal description weren't specific enough for you.

Do you think there's just the slightest possibility you're wrong about this?

you guys are a bunch of silly 13 year olds.

Do you think there's just the slightest possibility you're wrong about this?

No. I know I am 100% right about this, because I am all-knowing and omniscient.

Just like you.

I call guerilla/gorilla!!! Lol. They have nothing left but insults, attacking peope, and stealing their signs. Go get a life.

2 of my 5 were stolen yesterday

No. I know I am 100% right about this, because I am all-knowing and omniscient.

Just like you.

Dude.. 2 folks, one of whom I am telling you [and you can value my opinion however you choose to] is a respected person in the community are telling you this is true. It's okay to occasionally admit you are mistaken.

The store is at 23rd and I-44. You can go see for yourself. I was actually at the Ford Center last night promoting maps with Mr. GQ, so I have very little doubt he has a sign at his store.

No. I know I am 100% right about this, because I am all-knowing and omniscient.

Just like you.

Your a douche.

Dude.. 2 folks, one of whom I am telling you [and you can value my opinion however you choose to] is a respected person in the community are telling you this is true. It's okay to occasionally admit you are mistaken.

The store is at 23rd and I-44. You can go see for yourself. I was actually at the Ford Center last night promoting maps with Mr. GQ, so I have very little doubt he has a sign at his store.

Alright, alright, I take it all back. I believe you, for realz. I also believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the big, mean, sign-stealing boogieman. For realz.


Your a douche.

My what is a douche? Haha, little grammar joke there.

Anyway, Merry Christmas to you. Is it Wednesday yet?

The signs are definitely being stolen by someone who doesn't want them up...for some reason. Usually gone within 24 hours. They pull the fabric/plastic from the bigger signs and leave the stakes, or what looks to be small diameter rebar.

Why is it that there is no cordial behavior amongst the opposition? If they want anyone to respect them, then they need to discontinue their behavior as single digit IQ morons.

Stealing signs? Really? Where's the intelligence in that bull****? Classy move folks. Very classy.

WOW!! from a woman opposing MAPS on facebook:

"When we go door to door we are telling (people) if Maps 3 passes they are laying off fire and police and at least 4 fire rigs will be pulled from service."

NOW THIS IS WHAT I CALL DESPERATE!

Why is it that there is no cordial behavior amongst the opposition? If they want anyone to respect them, then they need to discontinue their behavior as single digit IQ morons.

Stealing signs? Really? Where's the intelligence in that bull****? Classy move folks. Very classy.Somehow it seems like a sporting event and we divide into sides and then each goes all out to defeat the other at any cost.

I dislike it greatly but it does seem to be a permanent affect of our time.

Why is it that there is no cordial behavior amongst the opposition? If they want anyone to respect them, then they need to discontinue their behavior as single digit IQ morons.

Stealing signs? Really? Where's the intelligence in that bull****? Classy move folks. Very classy.

I've got one for you. A friend got permission to put up NO signs across the street from a councilmans house. He proceeds to put up the signs in this womans yard. Meanwhile, the honorable councilperson gets home and opens the back of his little suv. Guess what he unloads? The NO signs that he had been out removing. What a time to not have a video camera on you. I wouldn't call anyone a liar that says their signs have been stolen. There's enough of it going on, on both sides. By the way , the signs my friend put put out, were destroyed the next morning. Nobody seems to be above this.

WOW!! from a woman opposing MAPS on facebook:

"When we go door to door we are telling (people) if Maps 3 passes they are laying off fire and police and at least 4 fire rigs will be pulled from service."

NOW THIS IS WHAT I CALL DESPERATE!

The plan as it stands right now is to lay off 29 FF's along with the 11 positions they have refused to fill. That makes a total of 40 FF's gone. To make that work they are going to shut down 4 rigs. Those are the facts. You might want to become aquainted with them.

They may well be the facts, but tying their occurrence to
MAPS passing is either ignorance or deliberate deception.

I've got one for you. A friend got permission to put up NO signs across the street from a councilmans house. He proceeds to put up the signs in this womans yard. Meanwhile, the honorable councilperson gets home and opens the back of his little suv. Guess what he unloads? The NO signs that he had been out removing. What a time to not have a video camera on you. I wouldn't call anyone a liar that says their signs have been stolen. There's enough of it going on, on both sides. By the way , the signs my friend put put out, were destroyed the next morning. Nobody seems to be above this.

Wambo, I'm not going to defend anyone improperly removing a sign, on either side.

That said, I'm also not going to presume the councilman did so based only on what you related.

However, was he a dirty dastard, or was he fulfilling a request of a constituent who had a business plastered without permission. I don't know, and neither do you, nor does the person who told you of this, based on the limited report you provided.

Perhaps the signs the councilman had were picked up in a perfectly legal manner. That is just as probable an implication as the implication you left.

On the positive side, kudos for not tarnishing someone by name without the facts to back the tarnish.

Oh, and if those facts do exist, be all means, tarnish away. I don't care for sign thiefs, and I don't care which side of the issue they are on.

I've got one for you. A friend got permission to put up NO signs across the street from a councilmans house. He proceeds to put up the signs in this womans yard. Meanwhile, the honorable councilperson gets home and opens the back of his little suv. Guess what he unloads? The NO signs that he had been out removing. What a time to not have a video camera on you. I wouldn't call anyone a liar that says their signs have been stolen. There's enough of it going on, on both sides. By the way , the signs my friend put put out, were destroyed the next morning. Nobody seems to be above this.

Wambo, I'm not going to defend anyone improperly removing a sign, on either side.

That said, I'm also not going to presume the councilman did so based only on what you related.

However, was he a dirty dastard, or was he fulfilling a request of a constituent who had a business plastered without permission. I don't know, and neither do you, nor does the person who told you of this, based on the limited report you provided.

Perhaps the signs the councilman had were picked up in a perfectly legal manner. That is just as probable an implication as the implication you left.

On the positive side, kudos for not tarnishing someone by name without the facts to back the tarnish.

Oh, and if those facts do exist, be all means, tarnish away. I don't care for sign thieves, and I don't care which side of the issue they are on.

Why is it that there is no cordial behavior amongst the opposition? If they want anyone to respect them, then they need to discontinue their behavior as single digit IQ morons.

Stealing signs? Really? Where's the intelligence in that bull****? Classy move folks. Very classy.okcpulse do you consider the pro MAPS people who are stealing NO signs to be classless morons as well?

They may well be the facts, but tying their occurrence to MAPS passing is either ignorance or deliberate deception.
I still haven't figured out how MAPS is tied to the fire/police issue other than the fact that they feel like that money should be for "them"....whether MAPS passes or not more than likely the cuts are going to happen so in effect they are not connected.

If someone can provide a direct connection of cause/effect please post it up.

Wambo, I'm not going to defend anyone improperly removing a sign, on either side.

That said, I'm also not going to presume the councilman did so based only on what you related.

However, was he a dirty dastard, or was he fulfilling a request of a constituent who had a business plastered without permission. I don't know, and neither do you, nor does the person who told you of this, based on the limited report you provided.

Perhaps the signs the councilman had were picked up in a perfectly legal manner. That is just as probable an implication as the implication you left.

On the positive side, kudos for not tarnishing someone by name without the facts to back the tarnish.

Oh, and if those facts do exist, be all means, tarnish away. I don't care for sign thieves, and I don't care which side of the issue they are on.

I agree, that's exactly why I refrained from using his name. I don't know where he got the signs from. Since I live in his ward, suffice it to say I will be carrying a video camera with me from now on. I suggest the same for the opposition. These people should be exposed. But please don't think it's occuring on one side more than the other.

... do you consider the pro MAPS people who are stealing NO signs to be classless morons as well?

I can't speak for pulse, but a sign thief is a sign thief, no matter which side he or she supports.

Removal of any legally placed sign is wrong.
Removal of any sign not placed legally is ok, by either side, and canbe considered one's civic duty.

That said, choosing to exercising one's civic duty only on those signs one happens to disagree with rapidly departs civic duty territory, in my opinion, and makes one worthy of instant induction as an honorary member of the shicken chits society.

WOW!! from a woman opposing MAPS on facebook:

"When we go door to door we are telling (people) if Maps 3 passes they are laying off fire and police and at least 4 fire rigs will be pulled from service."

NOW THIS IS WHAT I CALL DESPERATE!How or why is it desperate. The Fire Chief has a plan, and I believe his plan is sitting on the City Managers desk, and that plan calls for the elimination of 40 Firefighters, a station, and a number of rigs. Maybe you felt you needed to say something derogatory and this was the only thing you could come up with. When the Mayor says if MAPS passes it will put more Police and Firefighters on the streets would you call that desperate?

I can't speak for pulse, but a sign thief is a sign thief, no matter which side he or she supports.

Removal of any legally placed sign is wrong.
Removal of any sign not placed legally is ok, by either side, and canbe considered one's civic duty.

That said, choosing to exercising one's civic duty only on those signs one happens to disagree with rapidly departs civic duty territory, in my opinion, and makes one worthy of instant induction as an honorary member of the shicken chits society.we agree

They may well be the facts, but tying their occurrence to
MAPS passing is either ignorance or deliberate deception.Isn't the Mayor doing the same thing by saying the passing of MAPS 3 will put more P & F on the streets? Knowing that it won't

The plan as it stands right now is to lay off 29 FF's along with the 11 positions they have refused to fill. That makes a total of 40 FF's gone. To make that work they are going to shut down 4 rigs. Those are the facts. You might want to become aquainted with them.

You might want to acquaint yourself with reality. These are not the facts, and shame on you for acting like they are. If you think these are the facts, then you have issues.

You might want to acquaint yourself with reality. These are not the facts, and shame on you for acting like they are. If you think these are the facts, then you have issues.Shame on you for calling him a liar.

Shame on you for calling him a liar.

Just calling it as I see it.

Sign of the times ... near Byrons on Broadway ...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/coretoshore/maps3/signofthetimes.jpg

Just calling it as I see it.Sounds like blurry vision, you might want to get that checked out.

Sounds like blurry vision, you might want to get that checked out.

I have, just two weeks ago. 20/20. Thanks for the medical advice.

You might want to acquaint yourself with reality. These are not the facts, and shame on you for acting like they are. If you think these are the facts, then you have issues.

Exactly where are you getting your info from Mr. Reality? I know where mine is coming from. Unless the city manager, for some reason, backs off of his present course, these are the budget cuts that he has asked for. Now I'm sorry if the reality of this gets in the way of your anti-union rant, but unless you are saying that the city manager is being facetious when asking for these cuts, then it is you who should be ashamed.

Someone stole the two YesMaps signs I had in my yard. Also, I live off of 134 street in south OKC and over the past two days almost all the YesMaps signs that were put up are gone. I can't believe that they would such tactics.

Exactly where are you getting your info from Mr. Reality? I know where mine is coming from. Unless the city manager, for some reason, backs off of his present course, these are the budget cuts that he has asked for. Now I'm sorry if the reality of this gets in the way of your anti-union rant, but unless you are saying that the city manager is being facetious when asking for these cuts, then it is you who should be ashamed.

I'm quite aware of the two percent city-wide cut. If there's more to it than that, I haven't heard of it.

And for the record, I have never been anti-union, which I've made clear in previous posts.

Any other random speculation you wish to make about my belief system, Mr. Grim Reality?

Again, none of this has to do with MAPS. It's just that your UNIONS decided to link it to MAPS to hold the citizens of this city hostage. And, I don't agree with that in any way.

i'm sure they'll make investigation of this matter a top priority.

lol

I'm quite aware of the two percent city-wide cut. If there's more to it than that, I haven't heard of it.

And for the record, I have never been anti-union, which I've made clear in previous posts.

Any other random speculation you wish to make about my belief system, Mr. Grim Reality?

Again, none of this has to do with MAPS. It's just that your UNIONS decided to link it to MAPS to hold the citizens of this city hostage. And, I don't agree with that in any way.

So what are you disputing that I said? The 40 FF positions are going to be cut. The 4 fire companies are going to be cut. That's all from the 2% cut that you acknowledge is coming. You're the one who called me a liar. So tell me, where is the lie?

I haven't seen this plan. I haven't read about this plan. And frankly, your credibility for providing reliable information is virtually nonexistent with me. Where is the lie? The lie is you and your minions telling citizens that these cuts are coming if MAPS is passed. MAPS has nothing to do with it. This is a bold faced lie that you want to make the citizens believe. It is dirty politics.

At most, these sound like the city manager's contingency plans, which doesn't mean they will happen. The state is going through this as well.

Soonerguru, how did you become so enlightened? How do you know those layoffs won't occur? Let me tell you what I saw. OCFD Fire Chief Keith Bryant came to fire station 13 to present a man with his 20 year pin. He was asked about the RIF and wrote on he board the loss of Engine 4, Engine 51 and Brush pumper 4. That is 33 positions, 11 per shift x 3 shifts. 11 civilians are already gone. That is 44 total. He stated 4 people are retiring 1/1/01 so those cuts are not included. 297-3314 call the Chief and ask him. Now explain how you know that this is not true!!!!!!!

Soonerguru, how did you become so enlightened? How do you know those layoffs won't occur? Let me tell you what I saw. OCFD Fire Chief Keith Bryant came to fire station 13 to present a man with his 20 year pin. He was asked about the RIF and wrote on he board the loss of Engine 4, Engine 51 and Brush pumper 4. That is 33 positions, 11 per shift x 3 shifts. 11 civilians are already gone. That is 44 total. He stated 4 people are retiring 1/1/01 so those cuts are not included. 297-3314 call the Chief and ask him. Now explain how you know that this is not true!!!!!!!

This has nothing to do with MAPS. Nothing.

Question, no hyperbole needed, just a straight answer. Did soonerguru, or anyone else for that matter, dispute that their are layoff plans, or is the dispute that it is wrong to tell people these layoffs will happen if MAPs passes.

Sounds to me like the Chief provided the city manager a layoff plan, at the city mgr.'s request and if it is to happen, it happens without regard to whether MAPs passes on Tues. or fails on Tues.

If my understanding is correct, then yes, it is a lie to say If MAPs passes, these layoffs will take place, simply because based on what some of you are noting, the layoffs will happen not matter what happens on the MAPs vote.

There are honest ways to get across information, but it sounds, from my perspective over here, that folks are talking past each other and not actually communicating.

I am so glad there are only about 47 hours left.