I worked tonight for the MAPS campaign. Another gentleman and myself stood outside the Ford Center during the Thunder v. Celtics game, passing out stickers and promoting MAPS in general.

Something struck me as a bit ironic. While there weren't very many hecklers, there were a few. Did they not realize that they were on their way to the Ford Center? An arena paid for by the tax they now, for some reason, oppose?

Anyone else doing any grass roots advocacy work on either side?

Yes, I'm volunteering. I think we are going to win. You could sense a lull last weekend, but we have the big mo now. I was canvassing all day in multiple districts.

The MAPS Yes crowd has finally gotten its ground game in gear and we are out and we are everywhere now.

One of the most common questions about MAPS I got was, "Why would anyone be against this?"

I'm working at the Ford Center Monday night. I've been calling, delivering signs to people that requested them, putting signs together, etc.

YUP! How many times do you need this explained. They are heckling you because they don't want to be stuck with the bill on a white water rapids or MONEY PIT rail!

They were enjoying the ARENA that they most likely voted for and already PAID FOR! Just because it's MAPS doesn't mean it's a good idea.

You can know this list of projects is ridiculous and VOTE NO, but still agree with MAPS1, MAPS2, Basketball MAPS, HOTEL MOTEL MAPS or whatever. It is possible.

Two is all you could get? LOL. Maybe the free stuff businesses are giving will help. Maybe you'll get 3, next time. :doh:

No matter the cheesy commercials. This MAPS is going down in flames. I've spoken to several from the very companies giving free stuff voting NO!

I heard of some policemen and firemen and union pipefitters who are going to vote "yes."

One of the most common questions about MAPS I got was, "Why would anyone be against this?"
Just remind them. 1st of all they won't finish all of the projects. They won't have the money.

Then tell them the RAIL is a money PIT. We'll build it and taxpayers will have to pay for it every year! It's a proven money loser for a city this size with our traffic.

Then tell them the Park is a MONEY Pit. We'll build it and taxpayers will have to pay for it every year!

White water rapids is a MONEY PIT. It's a proven money loser! We don't want to get into private business.

The Aquatic Centers. They are a MONEY PIT. It's a proven money loser and the taxpayers will have to pay to keep it open every year! We don't need to get into Private business!

The fair grounds already gets hotel motel tax. So they don't need it. Tell them to tell clay to quit mismanaging my TAX money he's already getting!

That was easy. I could go on and on, but :bedtime:

See, I can say anything and claim its true, too.....

I'm working at the Ford Center Monday night. I've been calling, delivering signs to people that requested them, putting signs together, etc.

I'll be there too.

I heard of some policemen and firemen and union pipefitters who are going to vote "yes."
Anything can happen. Who'd thought a disorganized bunch of union goons could get the "TRUTH" out so well.

Let the voters decide.

I heard of some policemen and firemen and union pipefitters who are going to vote "yes."

Awesome!

I have inside information that suggests we are gathering momentum for the finish line. BUT WE CANNOT LET UP. Tell everyone you know to VOTE YES. Drive them to the polls, if necessary. We are taking my wife's mother and neighbors to the polls to vote.

If you see anyone who is passively supportive of MAPS, tell them in no uncertain terms that their vote is absolutely critical to passage. This is no time for complacency. We have this race but we need our supporters to vote. There will be no second chance.

I heard of some policemen and firemen and union pipefitters who are going to vote "yes."I'm sure thats true. I've got friends that work at Devon and CHK that have actually told me their voting NO. Had a lady that works in management for the City of Oklahoma City tell me that she and her entire family would be voting NO. Man, just when you think you got it all figured out.

Awesome!

I have inside information that suggests we are gathering momentum for the finish line. BUT WE CANNOT LET UP. Tell everyone you know to VOTE YES. Drive them to the polls, if necessary. We are taking my wife's mother and neighbors to the polls to vote.

If you see anyone who is passively supportive of MAPS, tell them in no uncertain terms that their vote is absolutely critical to passage. This is no time for complacency. We have this race but we need our supporters to vote. There will be no second chance.I received a call today from the yes camp. Some girl named Lori. She offered to give me a ride to the polls and gave me a number to call. Considering the price of gas I think I'll take her up on that offer.

In my canvassing, I'm finding that a lot of people don't want to put MAPS Yes signs in their yard because they've heard the cops and fire wouldn't help them in an emergency. I've told them this is silly but a lot of people are really afraid of the police, particularly.

The "silent majority" is for MAPS, but many of them don't want to rock the boat too much, mainly because they're actually concerned about being harassed by police.

soonerguru what are you smoking. apparently you havent spoke to amny people OUTSIDE you WEALTH but lots of people really dont know much about maps and tired of seeing the face of the mayor ever waking moment trying to force taxes on them. Lots of people dont want signs on both sides. I think you make lots up. especially about hte yes signs being in the yard.s GROW UP. you are scared and its ok to be scared. both parties are. I PROMIES the mayor is not sleeping very well and wont.
I also know first ahdn that they had to bribe people to hand out flyers at the last thunder game with a free ticket. wow once again you wont work unless you get something in return. but thats ok. you can have your false feeling of owning something that you have no heart over while the rest of us have deep feelings.

BY the way many people have asked fire why we re envloved and they are still voting no. MANY.. the TAXs. thanks glenn beck, thanks obama for getting the idea about the government getting out of control, thats what will lose it for you guys. truely it will be withn 5% either way.

soonerguru what are you smoking. apparently you havent spoke to amny people OUTSIDE you WEALTH but lots of people really dont know much about maps and tired of seeing the face of the mayor ever waking moment trying to force taxes on them. Lots of people dont want signs on both sides. I think you make lots up. especially about hte yes signs being in the yard.s GROW UP. you are scared and its ok to be scared. both parties are. I PROMIES the mayor is not sleeping very well and wont.
I also know first ahdn that they had to bribe people to hand out flyers at the last thunder game with a free ticket. wow once again you wont work unless you get something in return. but thats ok. you can have your false feeling of owning something that you have no heart over while the rest of us have deep feelings.

BY the way many people have asked fire why we re envloved and they are still voting no. MANY.. the TAXs. thanks glenn beck, thanks obama for getting the idea about the government getting out of control, thats what will lose it for you guys. truely it will be withn 5% either way.

I don't know what "wealth" you think I have, but you would probably not be very impressed by it. I'm a working stiff like you.

But what I'm finding out by talking to people is that they are excited to vote for MAPS, and are grateful for what previous MAPS votes have done for the city. Again, the most common question I heard was, "Why would anyone be against this?"

I assure you I'm not making anything up and you'll find that out on Tuesday.

The fair grounds already gets hotel motel tax. So they don't need it. Tell them to tell clay to quit mismanaging my TAX money he's already getting!

So I could say that "fire & police already get their 2/3 of the general fund $ PLUS a dedicated 3/4 cent tax, so they don't need it. Tell the union goons to quit mismanaging my TAX money they're already getting?"

Ok, good! Just making sure we're playing fair...

:poke:

I'm a retired City of OKC Employee (Management), I'm a definate yes vote. I notice that AFSME has yet to take an official stand on this MAPS proposistion.

Even though it's going to pass without the support of the Police/Fire Unions, if you want their backing, just offer them a raise, more benefits, new cars-trucks, more guaranteed overtime, extra paid leave, anything to give them what the want and why they are against MAPS3--in other words SHOW THEM THE MONEY.

I'm a retired City of OKC Employee (Management), I'm a definate yes vote. I notice that AFSME has yet to take an official stand on this MAPS proposistion.

Even though it's going to pass without the support of the Police/Fire Unions, if you want their backing, just offer them a raise, more benefits, new cars-trucks, more guaranteed overtime, extra paid leave, anything to give them what the want and why they are against MAPS3--in other words SHOW THEM THE MONEY.Now I see, it all makes since now. You should thank the Unions, if not for them you wouldn't have had any benefits at all, and were paid just as much, if not more than a Fireman, or a Cop. Now you want to critize them. Your just like so many others out there. If it's such a graveytrain and since you were a city employee why didn't you transfer on over like a lot of others did?

Now I see, it all makes since now. You should thank the Unions, if not for them you wouldn't have had any benefits at all, and were paid just as much, if not more than a Fireman, or a Cop. Now you want to critize them. Your just like so many others out there. If it's such a graveytrain and since you were a city employee why didn't you transfer on over like a lot of others did?

What a joke, the Unions never did anything for me, other than make me understand that Police Union / Fire Union / AFSCME are in existence for the employees that are only concerned about money and how to get out of work.

...Did they not realize that they were on their way to the Ford Center? An arena paid for by the tax they now, for some reason, oppose?...

That was a different tax(es) for a different purpose. It took 3 separate taxes to complete the Ford (MAPS, the 6 month "extension" and the current Ford tax). Unless you are saying money from MAPS 3 will be diverted into the Ford Center??

I'm a retired City of OKC Employee (Management), I'm a definate yes vote. I notice that AFSME has yet to take an official stand on this MAPS proposistion.
Let me know how it feels to pay that RAISE in your health care the council passed on it's retired folks the same day the sent MAPS3 to the ballot. That will cut into your Casino money won't it?

What a joke, the Unions never did anything for me,
It's "they didn't do anything for ME". If you had folks getting out of work while your were in Management, sounds like you weren't much of a manager! Your exactly where the breakdown starts. You called folks non workers. Wasn't it your JOB to make sure they were working? So at the end of the day, Who is the NON worker? You probably allowed employee's to run all over you, and just grumbled about it behind closed doors. You should have gotten a spine and addressed the "NON WORKERS". :congrats:

That was a different tax(es) for a different purpose. It took 3 separate taxes to complete the Ford (MAPS, the 6 month "extension" and the current Ford tax). Unless you are saying money from MAPS 3 will be diverted into the Ford Center??

I'm saying that in 20 years, those same folks will be heckling MAPS 5 volunteers while they're on their way to the convention center, riding the downtown rail circulator or visiting our park.

What a joke, the Unions never did anything for me, other than make me understand that Police Union / Fire Union / AFSCME are in existence for the employees that are only concerned about money and how to get out of work.Sure they did, your just not big enough to admit it. Are saying setting at your desk was harder than fighting a fire? If you are, now that's a joke.

Tell them to tell clay to quit mismanaging my TAX money he's already getting!



I'm sure you would spend that twenty bucks more wisely

Hey MidT,

Thanks for your hard work! I knocked on doors yesterday and had a good reponse. I too ran into many Yes voters who were afraid to put up a sign. Also replaced many signs that had been stolen.

kim

Truthfully, I can't wait til Tuesday is done with & gone. I haven't seen one post in any other subject thread by Iron76 and it'll be nice to see him share his opinion on other issues not related to MAPS...!

three more days, then 52-48 in favor.

As for after the polls close ...

Where is each side holding its watch party?

I too ran into many Yes voters who were afraid to put up a sign.Yes, I've encountered several people who really are afraid of police and fire retaliation. Rather sad.

So I could say that "fire & police already get their 2/3 of the general fund $ PLUS a dedicated 3/4 cent tax, so they don't need it. Tell the union goons to quit mismanaging my TAX money they're already getting?"

:congrats:

John.

Start with your Mayor and City Manager. They approve the budget every year. Maybe you could sit down and advise them on where to trim so fat. Maybe they can start with the 3 assistants the City Manager. He has three goons sucking off your tax dollars to the tune of over 100,000 a year...EACH!

That's right! Half a MILLION dollars a year of YOUR.. AND MY tax dollars for 4 city MANAGERS. That doesn't include their benefits. That's just their SALARY!

You should thank the Unions ...
Yes, several of them. Come on over, Andy!

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/coretoshore/maps3/kumbaya800.jpg

So I could say that "fire & police already get their 2/3 of the general fund $ PLUS a dedicated 3/4 cent tax, so they don't need it. Tell the union goons to quit mismanaging my TAX money they're already getting?

:poke:

Good point... OKC Sales Tax breakdown:

4.5 cents - Oklahoma State sales tax
2 cents - OKC General Fund
3/4 cent - Public Safety
1/8 cent - OKC Zoo
1 cent - MAPS

65% of General Fund budget goes to Public Safety, so that's 1.3 cents on the dollar, plus .75 cent dedicated to Pubic Safety.. Means that from every hundred dollars you spend, you'll give $1 to MAPS and $2.05 to police and fire.

Doug in all fairness. Where are the other Thousands of people that are voting NO. You forgot them in your picture. I'm pretty sure the vote will be close. Not an accurate portrail really is it?

Since you've made up your mind, I haven't been less than impressed with your post your journalism.

Can you research how the projects that YOU are voting yes for have faired in other cities they've been built in?

I was wondering how much money is contributed to the "General Fund" from fines collected through our court system, permits, tickets etc.....

I guess our "General Fund" is too small. Other cities have adequate staffing and are managing ok. Maybe we do have some fat to trim. Start at the top and work your way down.

Let's be a little realistic. .75 was needed almost twenty years ago to meet the needs of police and fire. Shouldn't we have increased that a long time ago. You are still distorting the TRUTH. What else is the general fund used for? Sewers, City employee's pay, water, trash, ALL city vehicles, paying electric bills for ALL buildings, City Managers pay to the tune of almost half a million dollars, streets, lawsuits, I could go on and on. Everything! That's what the GENERAL fund is used for correct?

I received a call today from the yes camp. Some girl named Lori. She offered to give me a ride to the polls and gave me a number to call. Considering the price of gas I think I'll take her up on that offer.

You're a fireman, right? You make much, much more money than most people, and will take advantage of a free ride from the opposition. Classy.

I was wondering how much money is contributed to the "General Fund" from fines collected through our court system, permits, tickets etc.....

I guess our "General Fund" is too small. Other cities have adequate staffing and are managing ok. Maybe we do have some fat to trim. Start at the top and work your way down.

Let's be a little realistic. .75 was needed almost twenty years ago to meet the needs of police and fire. Shouldn't we have increased that a long time ago. You are still distorting the TRUTH. What else is the general fund used for? Sewers, City employee's pay, water, trash, ALL city vehicles, paying electric bills for ALL buildings, City Managers pay to the tune of almost half a million dollars, streets, lawsuits, I could go on and on. Everything! That's what the GENERAL fund is used for correct?

Fees and fines account for 17% of the general fund.

And yes, the General Fund is used for a whole lot of things. I think the point is that well over half of it is used for public safety and only 35% is used for all over the other roles the city must play (including paying city managers a high salary for the stressful and highly technical job of operating a city of 550,000 and managing a workforce of close to 5,000)

:LolLolLol Doug!



Maybe they can start with the 3 assistants the City Manager.

Gee, I think the city manager probably needs assistants to run a city of nearly 600,000.

How about we start with the $240,000 being paid to Sipe and Hensley to sit in a union office and work against the city. How about that?

Doug in all fairness. Where are the other Thousands of people that are voting NO. You forgot them in your picture. I'm pretty sure the vote will be close. Not an accurate portrail really is it?
Each person in the cartoon represents a group.


Since you've made up your mind, I haven't been less than impressed with your post your journalism.
I'm having trouble understanding what you just said, so I don't know how to respond.


Can you research how the projects that YOU are voting yes for have faired in other cities they've been built in?
Probably, but I'm done researchin'. After Tuesday's vote, I'm done with this topic and will revert to things I enjoy much more than politics.

I'm having trouble understanding what you just said, so I don't know how to respond.I laughed out loud.

I'm having trouble understanding what you just said, so I don't know how to respond.

Sipe apologizes. His talking point robot overheated.

How about we start with the $240,000 being paid to Sipe and Hensley to sit in a union office and work against the city. How about that?

Some of the rhetoric is over the top, to be certain. But not so sure that's a good idea. A bit of what I refer to as the loyal opposition is also good for government, be it via a union, or via some other aspect.

VOTE YES, but never completely discount what the opposition is saying.
Not bad advice for the vote nope crowd for that matter.

I just don't think the union bosses should be paid with taxpayer money when they are not at the same time working as a police officer and a firefighter.

Kevin.

Can you tell me exactly how much Lt G Hensly makes?

That was a nice number you came up with. What are the exact numbers? Since you seem to know.

I spent two days this week delivering materials for the Chamber of Commerce and campaigning every chance I had free time. I would like to thank Iron and his friends for that, as I probably would not have been motivated enough to do it without them. Thanks, Iron and friends.

Gee, I think the city manager probably needs assistants to run a city of nearly 600,000.
I don't. I think one assistant maybe. I was wrong. I thought that's what Chiefs, department heads, Majors, Captains, Lieutenants and all of the rest in management did.

Couch is doing it all alone therefore, needs 3 assistants. mmm..:LolLolLol

This is kinda funny... Iron76hd is making the nomaps people look ridiculous. f they r reading his posts they r prolly prayin he shuts his face. Makes the entire group of them look like crazy radicals!
hahahaha

I would be tempted to bet money that the three assistant city managers do a lot more for their salaries than the two union bosses that do an extremely poor job for their members.

Sipe apologizes. His talking point robot overheated.
:LolLolLol

So I could say that "fire & police already get their 2/3 of the general fund $ PLUS a dedicated 3/4 cent tax, so they don't need it. Tell the union goons to quit mismanaging my TAX money they're already getting?"

Ok, good! Just making sure we're playing fair...

:poke:When did the Unions start managing the City budget? Don't you like Union goons now? With the exception of Fire and Police of course.

You're a fireman, right? You make much, much more money than most people, and will take advantage of a free ride from the opposition. Classy.You seem a little touchy. Wrong, I'm a retiree living on a fixed income so you'll know. And I want to say that I consider you to be every bit as classy as I am. Thanks for the compliment,

This is kinda funny... Iron76hd is making the nomaps people look ridiculous. f they r reading his posts they r prolly prayin he shuts his face. Makes the entire group of them look like crazy radicals!
hahahaha Agreed.

Fees and fines account for 17% of the general fund.

And yes, the General Fund is used for a whole lot of things. I think the point is that well over half of it is used for public safety and only 35% is used for all over the other roles the city must play (including paying city managers a high salary for the stressful and highly technical job of operating a city of 550,000 and managing a workforce of close to 5,000)I'm curious, do you have the figures that show the Police and Fire receive 65% of the General Fund budget. Better yet can you show where PUBLIC SAFETY gets 65%? I assume you know the difference between Police and Fire and Public Safety, don't you?

Sipe apologizes. His talking point robot overheated.Why would he apologize?

Why would he apologize?
Andy, when JBrown84 said ...

Sipe apologizes. His talking point robot overheated.
... he was saying that Sipe apologized for the impossible-to-understand words of ironhd76, he being referred to as Sipe's overheated talking point robot. Go back a few messages and you'll see that the above stemmed from a comment, and my reply to, ironhd76, where the latter said,


Since you've made up your mind, I haven't been less than impressed with your post your journalism.

Not understanding what iron was trying to convey, I replied,

I'm having trouble understanding what you just said, so I don't know how to respond.
JBrown84 was just funnin' when he said that Sipe was apologizing for iron, that's all.

Now that I've explained what JBrown was doing, would you PLEASE explain what ironhd76 meant to say, in his comment to me, above?

If you can do that, I'll be eterna ... uh ... I'll be grateful for 5 minutes.

Iron doesn't speak for Sipes or anyone other than his self. They aren't even in the same department. And where did the $240,000 figure come from? Both union presidents make the same salary that they would being back in the field and I guarantee it isnt $240,000.

Of course he doesn't. jbrown was just kidding around. A sense of humor isn't a bad thing to have at this particular time.

$120,000 each after benefits. Which is beyond ridiculous.

John.

Start with your Mayor and City Manager. They approve the budget every year. Maybe you could sit down and advise them on where to trim so fat. Maybe they can start with the 3 assistants the City Manager. He has three goons sucking off your tax dollars to the tune of over 100,000 a year...EACH!

That's right! Half a MILLION dollars a year of YOUR.. AND MY tax dollars for 4 city MANAGERS. That doesn't include their benefits. That's just their SALARY!

There are over 160 people amongst the 4,000 City employees that make over $100,000.** Over 120 of them are police officers and firefighters.** And both of the union heads cost the taxpayers over $100,000 each.

Off to put out more signs. I just got a call for a big one next to a fire house.

There are over 160 people amongst the 4,000 City employees that make over $100,000.** Over 120 of them are police officers and firefighters.** And both of the union heads cost the taxpayers over $100,000 each.

Off to put out more signs. I just got a call for a big one next to a fire house.
If it's safe to say, which firehouse? I'd love to take a pic or three of that!

There are over 160 people amongst the 4,000 City employees that make over $100,000.** Over 120 of them are police officers and firefighters.** And both of the union heads cost the taxpayers over $100,000 each.

Off to put out more signs. I just got a call for a big one next to a fire house.Good luck. There have been two YES signs (made me proud) at the entries to my subdivision that were plucked clean within 24 hours (made me angry).