View Full Version : Points to consider about MAPS 3



Chef
12-03-2009, 07:58 PM
IMPORTANT CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING MAPS III

There is a fair amount of exaggeration by the proponents of MAPS 3 as
well as its opponents. The conflict of interest allegations regarding
Mayor Cornett, who the prominent people might be that will make large
sums of money from overpriced projects paid by the taxpayers and
whether or not the police and fire unions are making valid arguments
or just being unions are all points to consider, but not in this
examination. My perspectives are based on attending two lengthy
meetings with extensive Q&A time with city councilman Larry McAtee, a
proponent. Also a meeting with councilman Brain Walters and the OFP
President, both opponents. I attended a lengthy meeting with a former
city insider who is familiar with local corruption and how the local
good old boy deals work. I have read massive amounts of information,
listened to information on Mark Shannon’s radio program and have a
grasp of basic economics and past performances of similar projects in
other communities. I am often asked if these e-mails can be forwarded
or printed out for distribution? Please do so, some people may have a
different opinion, but many are looking for additional perspectives
before making up their minds. Hopefully the following information will
be helpful.


Bullet points for why you should vote NO on MAPS III, detailed
information will follow the bullet points.

* Proponents are asking for a huge amount of money with no legal
obligation to do any project
proposed (read the ballot, to a degree, this is a pig in the
poke).

* Not enough money to complete proposed projects. In the best of
times, a 1 cent sales tax has
never produced more than $92 million in revenues. This project
requires $100 million in
annual revenues and now we are in a recession with declining
revenues.

* Proponents didn’t allow us to chose what we wanted, it is all or
nothing. There are some good
projects and some that are very bad.

* The operational and maintenance expenses along with needed tax
payer subsidies will be
greater than new revenues produced by the various projects.

* Projects like the light rail, river rapids, convention center and
senior wellness centers should
be built by the private sector, government should not compete
against free market businesses.

* The state fair board is not forthcoming to show accountability for
the millions of dollars
received from the gate receipts, vendors, supplies purchased by
vendors and the fees from the
weekly events held on the fair grounds. Those revenues should pay
for all improvements to
the fair grounds, rather than continually asking for more tax
revenues for improvements.


The revitalization of OKC started in earnest in brick town with the
opening of Spaghetti Warehouse. Other restaurants began to open, then
a little retail and antique activity. However, the first MAPS really
accelerated the revitalization process and helped make downtown OKC
into an exciting community. It was done the proper way as is being
proposed in MAPS 3, in that the money isn’t going to be borrowed, but
it will be, pay as you go. Tax dollars won’t be wasted on interest.
MAPS 1 certainly increased city revenues and when Devon indicated they
would not have their home office in OKC without the first MAPS, that
just shows how important the improvements to the city were, for
companies to be able to attract people who want to live and work in
the OKC.

However, under the law of diminishing returns, if MAPS 3 passes, don’t
look for such a noticeable difference. “IF” all the proposed projects
are completed, there will be improvements, but at twice the cost of
the original MAPS, and there will not be anywhere near twice the
value. Just remember, if money is no object, there is little man can’t
build as an edifice to himself. Man can build really flashy and
beautiful things. However, money is an object, not only to build the
projects, but more importantly to operate, subsidize and maintain
them.

The extension of the one penny sales tax must raise $100 million
dollars per year to pay for the projects, assuming the costs are held
in check. The projected cost is $777,000,000 million to be collected
over the next 7 years and 9 months. Unfortunately, $90 and $92 million
are the most revenues ever collected from one penny of sales tax in a
fiscal year or in any given 12 month period and that was before the
recession hit us. It is likely the sales tax revenues will be far
below the necessary amount needed. Therefore, will some of the
projects be deleted (not one single project is on the ballot) or will
the tax have to be extended? The ballot calls for a “Citizens Capital
Improvements Sales Tax Advisory Board” to review projects and make
RECCOMMENDATIONS regarding projects. This “Board” will ONLY be able to
“recommend”, they will have not enforcement authority. Basically, the
proponents are asking the voters to grant the money and then they will
decide later when, where and what capital projects for which it should
be spent. The order in which projects will be built, as well as the
proposed LOCATIONS for the “convention center” the “light rail”
project, the “senior wellness centers” and the river floating venue
have not been revealed by the proponents.

Most people never realize how much one penny adds up over time. Over
the life of the project, the cost is projected to be $777 million. If
you divide that by the 550,000 people who live in the city, it comes
out to a cost of $1,400 for every man woman and child in the city.
However, tourists and people who live outside the city, shop and eat
in the city and thus pay a portion of the costs. OSU economist, Dr.
Mark Snead crunched the numbers on 1 penny of sales tax in OKC by
factoring in revenues raised by visitors and suggested the average
cost for EACH RESIDENT of the city would be close to $900 over the
course of the project. Therefore, the cost to a family of 4 would be
$3,600. The taxpayers are going to have to decide if they want to
spend that money themselves on the things they need or want or let the
city spend it how ever they see fit?

The convention center is one of the most important projects to the
Chamber of Commerce. The Cox Center is a functioning convention
center, but a new one would be nice to have. However, its price tag is
far above what is should cost (equal to 80% of the cost of all 10
projects in MAPS 1). Even before the recession, convention business
was on the decline, yet more and more cities have been building them
hoping for convention and conference business. In hopes of landing Big
12 basket ball tournaments, they will be forced to leave the Cox
Center in place as the proposed convention center will not have an
arena. The operational expense and maintenance costs will double,
while increased revenues will probably be far short of hoped for
levels. The largest privately owned convention and conference center
in the state just opened in Norman a few months ago.

The proposed new park will run from the current I-40 cross town
highway down to the Oklahoma River. Probably about 7 blocks long. The
mowing, landscaping and cleaning costs will be enormous as well as the
need for many additional police officers to prevent crime and the
homeless from making it their new home. The city did not plan for any
parking around the park. When asked where visitors would park,
Councilman McAtee indicated they would park on the side streets around
the park. The plan is to have lofts, retail and offices surrounding
the park. There will be a great need for parking for those residents
and customers, making parking a real problem for non local residents
to visit the new park.

The senior wellness centers were added to MAPS 3 in hopes of
attracting votes for the “all or nothing projects.” The model for
these centers came for Little Rock Arkansas. The finest center of its
kind is well used because the fee to use the facilities is very small.
However, the nearly $1 million a year operating budget requires a city
subsidy of over $600,000 per year and we are talking about building 5
of these financial losers. Over the past few years the city has shut
down many of its swimming pools for a lack of funds to keep them open.
These will be much more costly as they will be open year round, are
indoors and thus will require heating and cooling. On top of that, it
is government competing against privately owned fitness centers as
well as facilities operated by the YMCA family centers. It is immoral
for the government to build these centers and compete against those in
the private sector. Worse still, from a moral or fairness perspective,
young professionals and teens who live in OKC will be forced to pay
for these centers, but they will not be allowed to use them.

The light rail systems in Portland Or, Tampa Fl and other places are
financial disasters. They require heavy subsidies and it will be worse
in OKC as we are spread out and love the freedom and flexibility
afforded by our autos. If light rail is approved, the next desired
project will be commuter rail service. These might include rail lines
from Norman, Edmond, Midwest City, and Yukon. Councilman McAtee
indicated the costs to establish those lines will be over 1 $BILLION
dollars. Commuter rail lines in California, Utah, Dallas and virtually
everywhere besides Boston and a couple of other high rise congested
cities are huge money pits, requiring massive taxpayer subsidies.
Unfortunately, the Oklahoma Department Of Transportation (ODOT) has
applied for $2 billion in stimulus dollars to build a high speed rail
between OKC and Tulsa. If built it will not save more than 20 minutes
in travel time and will require an estimated $22 million taxpayer
dollars each year to keep the boondoggle operating. It has been
proposed that the State, Tulsa and OKC all share in that cost. The
lust by city and state leaders to provide passenger rail service is
driven by a spirit of “keeping up with the Joneses.” Just because
Boston or someone else has passenger rail, we think we must have a
system also, even though our lifestyle and population density is
antithetical to such propositions. The light rail boondoggle project
alone is enough reason to defeat MAPS 3.

The Oklahoma River has quickly become a heralded venue for rowing and
other uses. There have been many improvements already done with
private dollars. Further improvements could also be done in the same
manner. The white water rapids project will be a lot of fun. But it
will compete against the White Water fun park. Another case of
government going into business and competing against those in the
private sector. If and again I say if, there is a market for such an
activity, then put it out for bids to the private sector and let
someone build and operate it to make a profit. The city should stay
out of these kinds of ventures. The rapids project is modeled after
the one in Charlotte North Carolina. By the way, that project just
went belly up. Because of the short time span for usage, this one here
will require heavy taxpayer subsidies.

The sidewalks and trials are proper functions of government. The city
already has plans to build them. The money in MAPS 3 simply
accelerates the time to complete them. If the citizens want to extend
a tax for a few month for these purposes, they should be allowed to
vote on those projects separately.

Another thing to consider. Oklahoma County government is under threat
by the federal government to fix the problems associated with the
jail. Propose costs so far have been exorbitant and chilling. The
county commissioners are trying to trim costs and may ask the citizens
for a sales tax increase to solve that problem. If the citizens
refuse, a federal judge could order a fix and demand the cost to be
paid through a huge increase in property taxes. If MAPS 3 is voted
down, OKC will see its sales tax reduced and in fact be the lowest of
any community in central Oklahoma. That might lessen the blow of a
future short term county sales tax increase.

One final thought. There are 7 announced Republicans and 1 independent
running for the soon to be vacated 5th district congressional seat. No
Democrat has announced at this time. Week before last former State
Representative Kevin Calvey was on Mark Shannon’s radio show and was
asked if he supported or opposed MAPS 3. Since that time several of
the other candidates have made their positions known. OCPAC Vice
Chairman Richard Engle and I have contacted all of the candidates and
I now want to make all of their answers known. This is important as it
gives the voters a glimpse into the ideology of the candidates. Their
philosophy for the size and activities of government during a
recession and more importantly how they may react to pressure from
city leaders once in Congress as to whether or not they will bring the
“bacon home” from a bankrupt federal government or if they care more
about fiscal restraint and reducing the federal debt. City leaders
will want some parts of MAPS 3 subsidized by the federal government.
Will the next 5th district congressman be independent or a puppet on a
string for the rich and powerful?

The Congressional candidates opposed to MAPS 3 are:

Kevin Calvey - Republican
Dr. Johnny Roy - Republican
Rick Flannigan - Republican
Paul Araby - Republican
Clark Duffe - Independent

The 5th district congressional candidate in favor is:

Corporation Commissioner Jeff Cloud - Republican

Two other responses:

State Rep Mike Thompson - Republican - told me his position, but
doesn’t want it made public.

James Lankford - Republican - Indicated his strong belief that federal
office holders (or candidates) should not interject themselves into
local issues.


The voting members of the Oklahoma Conservative Political Action
Committee (OCPAC) overwhelmingly voted to oppose MAPS III. I would
suggest it be voted down then after the recession has recovered, those
issues may again be presented to the voters so they have a choice as
to which ones to support and which ones to turn down.



Charlie Meadows, OCPAC Chairman

andy157
12-04-2009, 06:03 AM
IMPORTANT CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING MAPS III

There is a fair amount of exaggeration by the proponents of MAPS 3 as
well as its opponents. The conflict of interest allegations regarding
Mayor Cornett, who the prominent people might be that will make large
sums of money from overpriced projects paid by the taxpayers and
whether or not the police and fire unions are making valid arguments
or just being unions are all points to consider, but not in this
examination. My perspectives are based on attending two lengthy
meetings with extensive Q&A time with city councilman Larry McAtee, a
proponent. Also a meeting with councilman Brain Walters and the OFP
President, both opponents. I attended a lengthy meeting with a former
city insider who is familiar with local corruption and how the local
good old boy deals work. I have read massive amounts of information,
listened to information on Mark Shannon’s radio program and have a
grasp of basic economics and past performances of similar projects in
other communities. I am often asked if these e-mails can be forwarded
or printed out for distribution? Please do so, some people may have a
different opinion, but many are looking for additional perspectives
before making up their minds. Hopefully the following information will
be helpful.


Bullet points for why you should vote NO on MAPS III, detailed
information will follow the bullet points.

* Proponents are asking for a huge amount of money with no legal
obligation to do any project
proposed (read the ballot, to a degree, this is a pig in the
poke).

* Not enough money to complete proposed projects. In the best of
times, a 1 cent sales tax has
never produced more than $92 million in revenues. This project
requires $100 million in
annual revenues and now we are in a recession with declining
revenues.

* Proponents didn’t allow us to chose what we wanted, it is all or
nothing. There are some good
projects and some that are very bad.

* The operational and maintenance expenses along with needed tax
payer subsidies will be
greater than new revenues produced by the various projects.

* Projects like the light rail, river rapids, convention center and
senior wellness centers should
be built by the private sector, government should not compete
against free market businesses.

* The state fair board is not forthcoming to show accountability for
the millions of dollars
received from the gate receipts, vendors, supplies purchased by
vendors and the fees from the
weekly events held on the fair grounds. Those revenues should pay
for all improvements to
the fair grounds, rather than continually asking for more tax
revenues for improvements.


The revitalization of OKC started in earnest in brick town with the
opening of Spaghetti Warehouse. Other restaurants began to open, then
a little retail and antique activity. However, the first MAPS really
accelerated the revitalization process and helped make downtown OKC
into an exciting community. It was done the proper way as is being
proposed in MAPS 3, in that the money isn’t going to be borrowed, but
it will be, pay as you go. Tax dollars won’t be wasted on interest.
MAPS 1 certainly increased city revenues and when Devon indicated they
would not have their home office in OKC without the first MAPS, that
just shows how important the improvements to the city were, for
companies to be able to attract people who want to live and work in
the OKC.

However, under the law of diminishing returns, if MAPS 3 passes, don’t
look for such a noticeable difference. “IF” all the proposed projects
are completed, there will be improvements, but at twice the cost of
the original MAPS, and there will not be anywhere near twice the
value. Just remember, if money is no object, there is little man can’t
build as an edifice to himself. Man can build really flashy and
beautiful things. However, money is an object, not only to build the
projects, but more importantly to operate, subsidize and maintain
them.

The extension of the one penny sales tax must raise $100 million
dollars per year to pay for the projects, assuming the costs are held
in check. The projected cost is $777,000,000 million to be collected
over the next 7 years and 9 months. Unfortunately, $90 and $92 million
are the most revenues ever collected from one penny of sales tax in a
fiscal year or in any given 12 month period and that was before the
recession hit us. It is likely the sales tax revenues will be far
below the necessary amount needed. Therefore, will some of the
projects be deleted (not one single project is on the ballot) or will
the tax have to be extended? The ballot calls for a “Citizens Capital
Improvements Sales Tax Advisory Board” to review projects and make
RECCOMMENDATIONS regarding projects. This “Board” will ONLY be able to
“recommend”, they will have not enforcement authority. Basically, the
proponents are asking the voters to grant the money and then they will
decide later when, where and what capital projects for which it should
be spent. The order in which projects will be built, as well as the
proposed LOCATIONS for the “convention center” the “light rail”
project, the “senior wellness centers” and the river floating venue
have not been revealed by the proponents.

Most people never realize how much one penny adds up over time. Over
the life of the project, the cost is projected to be $777 million. If
you divide that by the 550,000 people who live in the city, it comes
out to a cost of $1,400 for every man woman and child in the city.
However, tourists and people who live outside the city, shop and eat
in the city and thus pay a portion of the costs. OSU economist, Dr.
Mark Snead crunched the numbers on 1 penny of sales tax in OKC by
factoring in revenues raised by visitors and suggested the average
cost for EACH RESIDENT of the city would be close to $900 over the
course of the project. Therefore, the cost to a family of 4 would be
$3,600. The taxpayers are going to have to decide if they want to
spend that money themselves on the things they need or want or let the
city spend it how ever they see fit?

The convention center is one of the most important projects to the
Chamber of Commerce. The Cox Center is a functioning convention
center, but a new one would be nice to have. However, its price tag is
far above what is should cost (equal to 80% of the cost of all 10
projects in MAPS 1). Even before the recession, convention business
was on the decline, yet more and more cities have been building them
hoping for convention and conference business. In hopes of landing Big
12 basket ball tournaments, they will be forced to leave the Cox
Center in place as the proposed convention center will not have an
arena. The operational expense and maintenance costs will double,
while increased revenues will probably be far short of hoped for
levels. The largest privately owned convention and conference center
in the state just opened in Norman a few months ago.

The proposed new park will run from the current I-40 cross town
highway down to the Oklahoma River. Probably about 7 blocks long. The
mowing, landscaping and cleaning costs will be enormous as well as the
need for many additional police officers to prevent crime and the
homeless from making it their new home. The city did not plan for any
parking around the park. When asked where visitors would park,
Councilman McAtee indicated they would park on the side streets around
the park. The plan is to have lofts, retail and offices surrounding
the park. There will be a great need for parking for those residents
and customers, making parking a real problem for non local residents
to visit the new park.

The senior wellness centers were added to MAPS 3 in hopes of
attracting votes for the “all or nothing projects.” The model for
these centers came for Little Rock Arkansas. The finest center of its
kind is well used because the fee to use the facilities is very small.
However, the nearly $1 million a year operating budget requires a city
subsidy of over $600,000 per year and we are talking about building 5
of these financial losers. Over the past few years the city has shut
down many of its swimming pools for a lack of funds to keep them open.
These will be much more costly as they will be open year round, are
indoors and thus will require heating and cooling. On top of that, it
is government competing against privately owned fitness centers as
well as facilities operated by the YMCA family centers. It is immoral
for the government to build these centers and compete against those in
the private sector. Worse still, from a moral or fairness perspective,
young professionals and teens who live in OKC will be forced to pay
for these centers, but they will not be allowed to use them.

The light rail systems in Portland Or, Tampa Fl and other places are
financial disasters. They require heavy subsidies and it will be worse
in OKC as we are spread out and love the freedom and flexibility
afforded by our autos. If light rail is approved, the next desired
project will be commuter rail service. These might include rail lines
from Norman, Edmond, Midwest City, and Yukon. Councilman McAtee
indicated the costs to establish those lines will be over 1 $BILLION
dollars. Commuter rail lines in California, Utah, Dallas and virtually
everywhere besides Boston and a couple of other high rise congested
cities are huge money pits, requiring massive taxpayer subsidies.
Unfortunately, the Oklahoma Department Of Transportation (ODOT) has
applied for $2 billion in stimulus dollars to build a high speed rail
between OKC and Tulsa. If built it will not save more than 20 minutes
in travel time and will require an estimated $22 million taxpayer
dollars each year to keep the boondoggle operating. It has been
proposed that the State, Tulsa and OKC all share in that cost. The
lust by city and state leaders to provide passenger rail service is
driven by a spirit of “keeping up with the Joneses.” Just because
Boston or someone else has passenger rail, we think we must have a
system also, even though our lifestyle and population density is
antithetical to such propositions. The light rail boondoggle project
alone is enough reason to defeat MAPS 3.

The Oklahoma River has quickly become a heralded venue for rowing and
other uses. There have been many improvements already done with
private dollars. Further improvements could also be done in the same
manner. The white water rapids project will be a lot of fun. But it
will compete against the White Water fun park. Another case of
government going into business and competing against those in the
private sector. If and again I say if, there is a market for such an
activity, then put it out for bids to the private sector and let
someone build and operate it to make a profit. The city should stay
out of these kinds of ventures. The rapids project is modeled after
the one in Charlotte North Carolina. By the way, that project just
went belly up. Because of the short time span for usage, this one here
will require heavy taxpayer subsidies.

The sidewalks and trials are proper functions of government. The city
already has plans to build them. The money in MAPS 3 simply
accelerates the time to complete them. If the citizens want to extend
a tax for a few month for these purposes, they should be allowed to
vote on those projects separately.

Another thing to consider. Oklahoma County government is under threat
by the federal government to fix the problems associated with the
jail. Propose costs so far have been exorbitant and chilling. The
county commissioners are trying to trim costs and may ask the citizens
for a sales tax increase to solve that problem. If the citizens
refuse, a federal judge could order a fix and demand the cost to be
paid through a huge increase in property taxes. If MAPS 3 is voted
down, OKC will see its sales tax reduced and in fact be the lowest of
any community in central Oklahoma. That might lessen the blow of a
future short term county sales tax increase.

One final thought. There are 7 announced Republicans and 1 independent
running for the soon to be vacated 5th district congressional seat. No
Democrat has announced at this time. Week before last former State
Representative Kevin Calvey was on Mark Shannon’s radio show and was
asked if he supported or opposed MAPS 3. Since that time several of
the other candidates have made their positions known. OCPAC Vice
Chairman Richard Engle and I have contacted all of the candidates and
I now want to make all of their answers known. This is important as it
gives the voters a glimpse into the ideology of the candidates. Their
philosophy for the size and activities of government during a
recession and more importantly how they may react to pressure from
city leaders once in Congress as to whether or not they will bring the
“bacon home” from a bankrupt federal government or if they care more
about fiscal restraint and reducing the federal debt. City leaders
will want some parts of MAPS 3 subsidized by the federal government.
Will the next 5th district congressman be independent or a puppet on a
string for the rich and powerful?

The Congressional candidates opposed to MAPS 3 are:

Kevin Calvey - Republican
Dr. Johnny Roy - Republican
Rick Flannigan - Republican
Paul Araby - Republican
Clark Duffe - Independent

The 5th district congressional candidate in favor is:

Corporation Commissioner Jeff Cloud - Republican

Two other responses:

State Rep Mike Thompson - Republican - told me his position, but
doesn’t want it made public.

James Lankford - Republican - Indicated his strong belief that federal
office holders (or candidates) should not interject themselves into
local issues.


The voting members of the Oklahoma Conservative Political Action
Committee (OCPAC) overwhelmingly voted to oppose MAPS III. I would
suggest it be voted down then after the recession has recovered, those
issues may again be presented to the voters so they have a choice as
to which ones to support and which ones to turn down.



Charlie Meadows, OCPAC ChairmanI hate it when I have to agree with the Conservatives. I bet those nasty Unions are behind this.

iron76hd
12-04-2009, 06:42 AM
Charlie. Thank you! Some more FACTS on why to vote NO!:congrats:

soonerguru
12-04-2009, 08:10 AM
Wow that is weak of Mike Thompson not to take a public position on MAPS. Isn't this the guy the city's GOP establishment is pushing to be OKC's congressional voice in Washington? No position?

WEAK.

OSUFan
12-04-2009, 08:13 AM
Not to get into everything you have written but I do have one criticism. The Charlotte whitewater facility is having problems because of the debt. Without the debt the facility would break even. The greatness of MAPS is no debt.

Spartan
12-04-2009, 09:06 AM
The Congressional candidates opposed to MAPS 3 are:

Kevin Calvey - Republican
Dr. Johnny Roy - Republican
Rick Flannigan - Republican
Paul Araby - Republican
Clark Duffe - Independent

Hmm. It would seem these are the candidates you need not vote for in the Congressional election.. if Jeff Cloud is the only pro-MAPS candidate we can come up with. Potential yes voters (aka the majority of you out there), look at the nutjobs who have come out in opposition of this tax, do you really want to elect one of them to congress now?

jbrown84
12-04-2009, 03:19 PM
Mass transit and convention centers should be private ventures?

AAAAAND now I'm tuning out your tea party talking points.