View Full Version : The Family” or "The Fellowship opts for genocide in Uganda



gmwise
12-03-2009, 01:48 PM
The Family and Uganda's Anti-Gay Legislation
by Ralph E. Stone‚ Dec. 02‚ 2009

A secretive, privately-funded group known as “The Family” or "The Fellowship," one of the most powerful, well-connected Christian fundamentalist movements in the United States has used its influence and funds through the Family’s African outreach programs to support a proposed Ugandan law that would impose the death penalty on "repeat offenders" engaging in gay sex.

How did this draconian law come about? In March of this year, American anti-gay activists traveled to Uganda for a conference that pledged to “wipe out” homosexuality. Seven months later, David Bahti, a Ugandan lawmaker and a member of the Family sponsored the “Anti-Homosexuality Bill 2009.” The proposed legislation is so severe that it may indeed wipe out gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender Ugandans.

Uganda already punishes gay intimacy with life in prison. The “Anti-Homosexuality Bill 2009” would penalize anyone who “attempts to commit the offence” with up to seven years in jail. Additionally, a person charged will be forced to undergo an invasive medical examination to determine their HIV status. If the detainees are found to be HIV+, they may be executed.

The Family had converted Uganda’s President Yoweri Museveni to its anti-gay brand of Christianity. The organization’s leader, Doug Coe, calls Museveni the Family’s “key man” in Africa. The Family and other anti-gay groups have long viewed Uganda as a laboratory to experiment with Christian theocracy.

Museveni was once the poster child for African democracy. But lately, under his guidance, horrific war crimes have been committed in the Great Lakes region of Uganda, and continuing human rights violations are claiming the lives of millions.

With passage of “Anti-Homosexuality Bill 2009,” the 20-year-old Musevene regime, supported by the United States and many European governments, would disavow many international treaties on human rights. This proposed law would allow for extradition of homosexuals living in other countries back to Uganda--violating current international norms.

It is estimated that half of Uganda’s annual budget comes through international aid. The United States Government must investigate the abuses of human rights and to re-evaluate the United States support of the Musevene regime, especially in light of this proposed anti-gay legislation.

List of prominent Family members

This is a partial member list focusing on well-known and influential members of the Family.

Members currently in the US Congress
Name Position Notoriety
Sam Brownback[1][81] Sen. (R-KS) Chair of Senate Values Action Team
James Inhofe[1][81] Sen. (R-OK)
Jim DeMint[1][81] Sen. (R-SC) Chairman of Steering Committee
Chuck Grassley[81] Sen. (R-IA) Former Chairman of Finance Committee
Richard Lugar[4] Sen. (R-IN) Former Chairman, Foreign Relations Committee
John Ensign[1][81][82] Sen. (R-NV) Involved in sex scandal
Tom Coburn[1][81] Sen. (R-OK) Acted as go between for Sen.Ensign and his mistress and her family.
Mark Pryor[1][81] Sen. (D-AR)
Bill Nelson[1][81] Sen. (D-FL)
John Thune[81] Sen. (R-SD)
Mike Enzi[81] Sen. (R-WY)
Joe Pitts[1][81][82] Rep. (R-PA) Chair of House Values Action Team; Member Committees on Energy & Commerce, Sec. & Coop in Europe
Todd Tiahrt[83] Rep. (R-KS)
Frank Wolf[24] Rep. (R-VA) Member of House Appropriations Panel[1]
Zach Wamp[1][24] Rep. (R-TN)
Mike McIntyre[24] Rep.(D-NC)
Bart Stupak[1][82] Rep. (D-MI) Author of the Stupak-Pitts Amendment for the Affordable Health Care for America Act that would ban federal funding for abortions.[84]
Michael F. Doyle[1] Rep. (D-PA)
Heath Shuler[1] Rep.(D-NC)
Jerry Moran[1] Rep. (R-KS)


Members currently serving as state governors
Name Position Notoriety
Mark Sanford[69] Gov. (R-SC) Involved in sex scandal


Current Family members formerly serving in the executive branchName Position Notoriety
John Ashcroft[85] Attorney General AG under G.W. Bush; Also Sen. (R-MO), Member CNP
Dan Quayle[86] Vice President Also former Sen. (R-IN)
James Baker[4] Secretary of State Served under G.H.W. Bush
Robert "Bud" McFarlane[87] National Security Adviser Iran-Contra conspirator; served under Reagan
Ed Meese[88] Attorney General Served under Reagan; also Member CNP
Charles Colson[89] Special Counsel Watergate conspirator; served under Nixon; joined the Fellowship after leaving executive branch; served time in prison
Melvin Laird[24] Secretary of Defense Persuaded Ford to pardon Nixon[24]


Current Family members formerly in the US CongressName Position Notoriety
Don Nickles[33] Sen. (R-OK) Also Member Council for National Policy
Mark Hatfield[4] Sen. (R-OR) Chairman of Appropriations Committee
Pete Domenici[81] Sen. (R-NM)
Dan Coats[85] Sen. (R-IN) Promoted Faith-Based Initiatives
Chip Pickering[69] Rep. (R-MS) Involved in sex scandal
Tony P. Hall[90] Rep. (D-OH) Also UN ambassador for hunger issues under G.W. Bush


Current Family members formerly in the US militaryName Rank Notoriety
John W. Vessey[4] Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
David C. Jones[91] Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Also member Council on Foreign Relations


Historical members

The following Family members are all deceased.
Name Position Notoriety
Richard C. Halverson[1] US Senate chaplain "[O]ne of the first to join the Fellowship under found Abraham Vereide in the 1950s."[1]
Richard Nixon[87] US President Joined Family after presidency[87]
Gerald R. Ford[92] US President Pardoned Richard Nixon; also Member CFR
Strom Thurmond[24] Sen. (R-SC) opponent of civil rights
Herman Talmadge[24] Sen. (D-GA) opponent of civil rights
John C. Stennis[4] Sen. (D-MS) opponent of civil rights
Absalom Willis Robertson[24] Sen. (D-VA) Father of Pat Robertson
Arthur F. Burns[92] Chief of Federal Reserve Served under Nixon
Frank Carlson[93] Sen. (R-KS) Kingmaker for Eisenhower
Harold K. Johnson[94] Gen., Chief of Staff of the Army

Bunty
12-03-2009, 10:50 PM
Sorry, but I doubt that this news is of any use that would help to get rid of Sens. Inhofe and Coburn.

gmwise
12-04-2009, 09:50 AM
Sorry, but I doubt that this news is of any use that would help to get rid of Sens. Inhofe and Coburn.

I want them all to go before the International Court of Justice, for inciting genocide.

Midtowner
12-04-2009, 12:00 PM
I want them all to go before the International Court of Justice, for inciting genocide.

They're not subject to the jurisdiction of the ICJ. Jurisdiction is granted by treaty and no way will the U.S. ever sign that treaty.

gmwise
12-04-2009, 12:56 PM
As stated in Article 93 of the UN Charter, all 192 UN members are automatically parties to the Court's statute.

Current composition

As of 6 February 2009, the composition of the Court is as follows:
Name Country Position Elected Term End
Hisashi Owada Japan President 2003 2012
Peter Tomka Slovakia Vice-President 2003 2012
Shi Jiuyong China Member 1994, 2003 2012
Abdul G. Koroma Sierra Leone Member 1994, 2003 2012
Awn Shawkat Al-Khasawneh Jordan Member 2000, 2009 2018
Thomas Buergenthal United States Member 2000, 2006 2015
Bruno Simma Germany Member 2003 2012
Ronny Abraham France Member 2005, 2009 2018
Sir Kenneth Keith New Zealand Member 2006 2015
Bernardo Sepúlveda Amor Mexico Member 2006 2015
Mohamed Bennouna Morocco Member 2006 2015
Leonid Skotnikov Russia Member 2006 2015
Antônio Augusto Cançado Trindade Brazil Member 2009 2018
Abdulqawi Yusuf Somalia Member 2009 2018
Sir Christopher John Greenwood United Kingdom

Midtowner
12-04-2009, 01:10 PM
As stated in Article 93 of the UN Charter, all 192 UN members are automatically parties to the Court's statute.

Current composition

As of 6 February 2009, the composition of the Court is as follows:
Name Country Position Elected Term End
Hisashi Owada Japan President 2003 2012
Peter Tomka Slovakia Vice-President 2003 2012
Shi Jiuyong China Member 1994, 2003 2012
Abdul G. Koroma Sierra Leone Member 1994, 2003 2012
Awn Shawkat Al-Khasawneh Jordan Member 2000, 2009 2018
Thomas Buergenthal United States Member 2000, 2006 2015
Bruno Simma Germany Member 2003 2012
Ronny Abraham France Member 2005, 2009 2018
Sir Kenneth Keith New Zealand Member 2006 2015
Bernardo Sepúlveda Amor Mexico Member 2006 2015
Mohamed Bennouna Morocco Member 2006 2015
Leonid Skotnikov Russia Member 2006 2015
Antônio Augusto Cançado Trindade Brazil Member 2009 2018
Abdulqawi Yusuf Somalia Member 2009 2018
Sir Christopher John Greenwood United Kingdom

While the court might have the power to prosecute an American if they could get their hands on them, the Court has no power to compel U.S. authorities to deliver a person to the Court.

The U.S. is not a party to any sort of treaty granting that power.

ronronnie1
12-04-2009, 01:48 PM
This article makes me sick. Oh yeah those christian extremists don't hate gays. No, not at all. They just want to put them to death for their "sin."

I wish there was a time machine to send Insane-Inhofe and Kookoo-Coburn back to the Middle Ages where they belong. They'd be right at home.

Again, this whole story makes me ILL.

gmwise
12-04-2009, 01:53 PM
No what needs to be done is a lawsuit to force these creatures to scrambled back under rocks and debris.
They are a terrorist group, find out who gives them the money where and how its is spent.
If you dont strike dangerous "serpents" when they slither by, they will try to kill you.

mugofbeer
12-04-2009, 02:58 PM
Sounds like the left-wing conspiracy theorists are at it again. No offense intended, but this doesn't sound too legit. This sounds like it fits right in there with the trilateral commission, the bildebergers and black helicopters circling downtown. Remember, Obama is part of the bildebergers and should be imposing martial law any day now!(smile)

gmwise
12-04-2009, 03:15 PM
Sounds like the left-wing conspiracy theorists are at it again. No offense intended, but this doesn't sound too legit. This sounds like it fits right in there with the trilateral commission, the bildebergers and black helicopters circling downtown. Remember, Obama is part of the bildebergers and should be imposing martial law any day now!(smile)

Mugs you can research it for yourself.
try and use Google.

or let me help you just a little.
http://www.gop12.com/2009/07/family-behind-c-street.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106115324

mugofbeer
12-04-2009, 03:25 PM
GM - I know its in there, but so are the bildebergers and the trilaterals and all sorts of conspiracy theories. Hell, you can even find garbage that says Bush and Cheney planned and implemented the plan to fly airliners and shoot missles at the World Trade Center. It doesn't mean its accurate. Some things are just a little too fishy and far out.

My mother's talked about it before under another name. She hears it on that late night talk show on AM radio - the same show that talks about alien invasions and the Rockefellers still running the earth.

But who knows? Tiger Woods played around on his wife..... (sigh). No heroes anymore.

gmwise
12-04-2009, 03:33 PM
GM - I know its in there, but so are the bildebergers and the trilaterals and all sorts of conspiracy theories. Hell, you can even find garbage that says Bush and Cheney planned and implemented the plan to fly airliners and shoot missles at the World Trade Center. It doesn't mean its accurate. Some things are just a little too fishy and far out.

My mother's talked about it before under another name. She hears it on that late night talk show on AM radio - the same show that talks about alien invasions and the Rockefellers still running the earth.

But who knows? Tiger Woods played around on his wife..... (sigh). No heroes anymore.

lol so you didnt read it, BUT you're ready to believe the "teabaggers or the birthers"?

Stan Silliman
12-04-2009, 03:58 PM
GM - I know its in there, but so are the bildebergers and the trilaterals and all sorts of conspiracy theories. Hell, you can even find garbage that says Bush and Cheney planned and implemented the plan to fly airliners and shoot missles at the World Trade Center. It doesn't mean its accurate. Some things are just a little too fishy and far out.

My mother's talked about it before under another name. She hears it on that late night talk show on AM radio - the same show that talks about alien invasions and the Rockefellers still running the earth.

But who knows? Tiger Woods played around on his wife..... (sigh). No heroes anymore.

Are you trying to say Inhofe is some sort of HERO?

mugofbeer
12-04-2009, 05:06 PM
[/B]

Are you trying to say Inhofe is some sort of HERO?

How in the world did you infer that from what I said? It was reference that anything is possible in today's world - even Tiger Woods, someone a lot of people thought was a positive role model, is a louse. Anything's possible.

gmwise
12-04-2009, 06:09 PM
If Uganda Executes Gays, Will American Christians be Complicit?

A bill currently before the Ugandan Parliament sounds like an absurdity scenario from some liberal nightmare about a theocratic state: Under the proposed law -- which appears to have strong public support -- criminal penalties on homosexual acts in the East African nation would be made much harsher, and include the death penalty.

Killing homosexuals for having sex? Just as shocking, however, are the links between the proposal and American Christians who have at times been rousing cheerleaders for Uganda's draconian statutes.

A key episode in the trail of evidence was an event in March 2009 in the capital, Kampala, that drew three well-known conservative Christian activists from the United States who are prominent in the so-called ex-gay movement that seeks to "convert" homosexuals to make them straight.

The three men, Scott Lively of Abiding Truth Ministries, Don Schmierer of Exodus International and the International Healing Foundation, and Lee Brundidge, who often works with a group called Extreme Prophetic, were invited to the conference of the Family Life Network of Uganda to help organize what Lively called "an effective social and political force" to combat "anti-family Western agitators." Those agitators, he said, are led by gay activists in Europe and the United States who "plan to spread sexual anarchy throughout the world under the guise of 'human rights' and 'family planning.' "

If that message sounds over-the-top to American ears, it plays well in places like Uganda, where grass-roots sentiment against gays and anti-gay (and anti-Western) rhetoric from hardline Muslims can set the tone of the discourse.

In their talks to the conference of parents, politicians and educators, the trio provided a host of other anti-gay talking points as well. They said homosexuals are "out to destroy the country," according to reports from the scene, and they said that legalizing homosexuality is akin to legalizing "the molestation of children or having sex with animals." Lively, who has gained notoriety for arguing that homosexuals were the real force behind the rise of Nazism, was also invited to address the Ugandan Parliament. By his own account, his hosts "were very pleased."

Soon after the conference, the Family Life Network and its political allies got to work and on Oct. 15 introduced the Anti-Homosexuality Bill of 2009, which aims to "protect the traditional family by prohibiting any form of sexual relations between persons of the same sex."

Although some proponents argue that the proposed legislation is not that much worse than current laws in Uganda that criminalize gay sex, the current bill creates severe new penalties: For one thing, it would add a seven-year jail term for anyone who "attempts to commit the offense" of homosexuality or who "aids, abets, counsels or procures another to engage in acts of homosexuality." And anyone convicted of publishing information about homosexuality, or providing funds or premises for homosexual activity, would receive a seven-year jail sentence or a fine of $50,000. Authorities who fail to report homosexuals within 24 hours of discovering their behavior can be punished by up to three years in prison. Moreover, the bill defines homosexual sex (it's pretty explicit) as even attempting to touch another person of the same sex with the "intention" of having sex; this can even occur through clothing.

But it is the provision for capital punishment for "aggravated homosexuality" -- defined as having gay sex with disabled people or anyone under 18, or when the accused is HIV-positive -- that has raised alarms among human rights groups and some American Christians.

Ten days after the bill's introduction, Warren Throckmorton, a well-known evangelical speaker who is himself affiliated with gay-switching ministries, wrote an online column denouncing the actions of the Lively, Schmierer and Brundidge, and pointing the finger of responsibility at his fellow believers in America:

"Jailing or killing gays or those suspected of being gay cannot create a righteous people, and in fact may further a self-righteous people," Throckmorton wrote. "Christians in the U.S may have unwittingly contributed to the deteriorating state of freedom in Uganda. Now, we need to help right those wrongs by calling on our Ugandan brothers and sisters to back away from this bill."

American commenters on his piece ranged from those who applauded Throckmorton's courage to those who supported the criminalization of homosexuality.

Lively himself struck back in one of the comments: "I do not now and have never supported incarceration for homosexuals and was in Uganda to advocate for treatment of homosexuals as an alternative to incarceration, similar to what benefited me when arrested for drunk driving years ago in my pre-Christian days." He added that he does not support "the harsh law as currently proposed."

Lively's approach would maintain the criminalization of homosexuality, however. And writing in June about his Uganda trip, Lively boasted that he encouraged Ugandans to maintain a "sufficient legal deterrent to prevent the international 'gay' juggernaut from homosexualizing the society." In a Nov. 27 interview with LifeSiteNews, a conservative Catholic Web site, Lively again blamed gay men in the West for prompting the new law. He repeated that he thought the current bill too "harsh" but he defended the criminalization of homosexuality.

Yet much more is in play here than the actions and arguments of a handful of Christian activists from America.
Many leading U.S. Christians have longstanding ties to churches in Uganda, and may, some argue, have had a hand in promoting the policies that culminated in the new anti-homosexuality bill.

Many top U.S. politicians are also invested in Uganda. The Bush administration liked to present the country as a model of pro-abstinence, anti-condom AIDS prevention policies (a claim that some dispute), and author Jeff Sharlet recently revealed close ties between The Family -- the secretive network of conservative American Christians that includes leading Sens. James Inhofe, Sam Brownback, Tom Coburn and Mike Enzi -- and the Ugandan legislator, David Bahati, who introduced the tough new anti-gay bill.

These American and African Christians have many things in common, but a frequent tie is a shared dislike -- bordering on detestation -- of homosexuality and homosexuals. Ugandan Christianity, like the faith in much of Africa and the Southern Hemisphere, is booming and orthodox on matters of sex, and is seen by Americans evangelicals in particular as fertile territory for mission work. It is also seen as a bulwark against an even more traditionalist Islam, as well as a breeding ground for Christian allies in the culture wars being fought in the West.

Rick Warren, perhaps America's most prominent megachurch evangelical and author of the mega-selling "Purpose-Driven Life," has particularly strong ties to Uganda, which he has declared a "Purpose-Driven Nation." Warren's point man in Uganda was Martin Ssempa, a pastor who is a strong backer of the Anti-Homosexuality bill. Ssempa has appeared at Warren's Saddleback Church, although Warren distanced himself from Ssempa's views in October and said he had cut ties with him in 2007.

But in a statement to Newsweek on Sunday, Warren also declined to condemn the pending legislation that Ssempa and others back:

"The fundamental dignity of every person, our right to be free, and the freedom to make moral choices are gifts endowed by God, our creator," Warren said. "However, it is not my personal calling as a pastor in America to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations."
Yet as Throckmorton has said, American Christians who have been cultivating ties and sharing views with Ugandan Christians are past the point of taking such a hands-off approach. In March 2008, Warren told Ugandan media that he supported a boycott of the Lambeth Conference of the Anglican Communion by Uganda's bishops over the issue of homosexuality -- even though Warren is a Southern Baptist. Warren also said homosexuality is not a natural way of life and thus not a human right and added, "We shall not tolerate this aspect at all."

At the very least, such rhetoric is like throwing a lighted match into a tinderbox. Homosexuality is a taboo in many African societies to a far greater extent than it is in the United States, and in Uganda it can be a weapon against adversaries; politicians will, for example, leak the names of opponents they say are gay, and accommodating tabloids will print the names, which can end a career or result in jail time.

American Christians who help sow such sentiments may be held liable -- at least morally -- for the results. A Nov. 18 report, "Globalizing the Culture Wars: U.S. Conservatives, African Churches, and Homophobia," from the liberal think tank Political Research Associates (PRA), documents how extensive -- and influential -- those contacts are.

"Just as the United States and other northern societies routinely dump our outlawed or expired chemicals, pharmaceuticals, machinery, and cultural detritus on African and other Third World countries, we now export a political discourse and public policies our own society has discarded as outdated and dangerous," Tarso Luís Ramos, head of the PRA, says in the foreword to the report. "Africa's anti-gay campaigns are to a substantial degree made in the U.S.A."
Whether those campaigns will succeed is still an open question. Despite wide support for the bill in parliament, Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni may seek to stall the legislation for fear of losing international support.

But many Ugandan church leaders have also signaled their support for the broader bill if the death-penalty provision is removed. "I think the death penalty is not acceptable," Anglican Bishop Stanley Ntagali of Masindi-Kitara diocese has said. "I think taking someone to jail for a period of time would be sufficient."

With an estimated 500,000 gays and lesbians among Uganda's 31 million residents, they better start building prisons fast.

Keep in mind the Nazis killed gays in addition the Jews.

gmwise
12-04-2009, 06:15 PM
I seem to remember a old World War 2 "why we fight" series.
""If you see either of of these bozos dont hesitate"".

Stan Silliman
12-04-2009, 08:23 PM
How in the world did you infer that from what I said? It was reference that anything is possible in today's world - even Tiger Woods, someone a lot of people thought was a positive role model, is a louse. Anything's possible.

Just using logic. More than anything, the Uganda article is an indictment of Inhofe as well as those of like mind.

You chose to refute the article by equating it's conclusions to those of dubious conspiracy theories, to which you included bildeburgers and others.

This, to me, was your way of excusing "the family" by dismissing the article's principle points. Then you added, by way of recent relevations which makes us question our assumptions, sometimes our positive "role models" let us down.

From there, since the article was critical of Inhofe and since the revelations surprise you, it has to be assumed you had Inhofe in the "role model" category.

mugofbeer
12-04-2009, 09:13 PM
Just using logic. More than anything, the Uganda article is an indictment of Inhofe as well as those of like mind.

You chose to refute the article by equating it's conclusions to those of dubious conspiracy theories, to which you included bildeburgers and others.

This, to me, was your way of excusing "the family" by dismissing the article's principle points. Then you added, by way of recent relevations which makes us question our assumptions, sometimes our positive "role models" let us down.

From there, since the article was critical of Inhofe and since the revelations surprise you, it has to be assumed you had Inhofe in the "role model" category.

Nah, Inhofe is too right for my tastes to be anything close to a role model.

My opinion is that the entire scope of the assertions in the article just sound too far-fetched to me that so many people could be in on, and support something that did what this article implies. Someone would talk and spill the beans. It just sounds like conspiracy theory material. Besides, with the network media eager to report anything that would put the Republican party in bad light, they would be on top of this in a heartbeat if there were substance to it.

When you look into the author's other writings, the stances taken, his criticizms and his support points take on a straight party far left wing political writer. He is as predictable as Sen. Inhofe is predictably right wing. My intention is not to criticize the writer's opinions but he has a political axe to grind. Some breaking news originates from writers like Mr. Stone, but its been nearly a week and no other organization has followed on it. If nothing else happens, I have to dismiss it as - as Mr. Stone likes to say, blarney.

Now, if there are more revelations that come out then there may be something to it. As I said, maybe not so clearly, I wouldn't have believed the Tiger Woods scandal if someone simply wrote about it.

Stan Silliman
12-06-2009, 11:00 PM
Nah, Inhofe is too right for my tastes to be anything close to a role model.

My opinion is that the entire scope of the assertions in the article just sound too far-fetched to me that so many people could be in on, and support something that did what this article implies. Someone would talk and spill the beans. It just sounds like conspiracy theory material. Besides, with the network media eager to report anything that would put the Republican party in bad light, they would be on top of this in a heartbeat if there were substance to it.

When you look into the author's other writings, the stances taken, his criticizms and his support points take on a straight party far left wing political writer. He is as predictable as Sen. Inhofe is predictably right wing. My intention is not to criticize the writer's opinions but he has a political axe to grind. Some breaking news originates from writers like Mr. Stone, but its been nearly a week and no other organization has followed on it. If nothing else happens, I have to dismiss it as - as Mr. Stone likes to say, blarney.

Now, if there are more revelations that come out then there may be something to it. As I said, maybe not so clearly, I wouldn't have believed the Tiger Woods scandal if someone simply wrote about it.

I'll concede your points.
Inhofe has been quoted from time to time as "doing his Africa thing" which I assume is the Uganda project which he also does on our dime.

Inhofe had some potential but his attitude always stood in his way. And, from time to time his statements are fodder for comedy. He's an embarrassment.

gmwise
12-06-2009, 11:22 PM
I'll concede your points.
Inhofe has been quoted from time to time as "doing his Africa thing" which I assume is the Uganda project which he also does on our dime.

Inhofe had some potential but his attitude always stood in his way. And, from time to time his statements are fodder for comedy. He's an embarrassment.

If it wasnt genocide that this man stands for it would be comedic.

mugofbeer
12-07-2009, 09:00 PM
GM - wild accusation alert! Prove it? What genocide has he stood for? Show me an article? Show me something that supports your position that isn't from some wild-eyed left wing fanatic you dug out of some backswamp no-reader alternate publication? Show me a mainstream media article of any type that shows Inhofe is in support of any genocidal program.

gmwise
12-07-2009, 09:58 PM
GM - wild accusation alert! Prove it? What genocide has he stood for? Show me an article? Show me something that supports your position that isn't from some wild-eyed left wing fanatic you dug out of some backswamp no-reader alternate publication? Show me a mainstream media article of any type that shows Inhofe is in support of any genocidal program.

READ THE 1ST POSTING!!!
ARE YOU TO LAZY TO VERIFIED OR TOO SCARE; OR ARE YOU JUSTIFYING IT ?
Are you a Holocaust denier as well?
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
Uganda Is Sanctioning Gay Genocide » Propeller
Nov 23, 2009 ... Sexual violence is everywhere in Uganda. A new bill punishing homosexuals is ... You even appear to be saying that gay people bring genocide on themselves. ...http://www.usnews.com/blogs/god-and-country/2009/12/07/should-us-religious-conservatives-denounce-ugandas-anti-gay-bill.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/29/uganda-death-sentence-gay-sex
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/ugandas-anti-gay-bill-causes-commonwealth-uproar/article1376503/
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/03/06/us-anti-gay-leaders-hold-seminar-in-uganda/
http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=18454

mugofbeer
12-07-2009, 10:35 PM
Thats not mainstream media and the author, which I DID take the time to research, writes a constant stream of stereotypical left wing garbage. Plus, there was nothing in his article that gives sufficient backup or proof that anything he said was the truth. He's a 3rd rate political pundit impersonating as a writer. Really, GM, if something about this were to show up on one of the mainstream media outlets I might have some reason to believe it but its too far out to believe just because this kook wrote an article about it. Like I said, my mom listens to some middle of the nite AM talk radio guy that fills her full of crap about bildebergers and the Rockefellers and how Obama is part of the society and will be imposing martial law any day now. This guy is the same thing but on the left. When some legitimate media outlet give some evidence that this story has one shred of truth in it, I will believe it. Otherwise, its simply internet garbage.

gmwise
12-07-2009, 11:02 PM
I thought is a first step or can you not google it on your own.

mugofbeer
12-08-2009, 09:15 AM
GM, I've done all that because your little snippet was the first I'd ever heard of such an "organization" and the assertions were so outrageous I wanted to see proof. I've looked into it and I've read the support given about it and my conclusion is that its nothing more than wild speculation. I read this and other pieces from the author and what I read is what led me to my opinion. If there were any credibility to it, the major media would be all over it. Its like 9-11 conspiracy theory. When CNN or ABC or AP or the New York Times gives some confirmable facts then I'll believe it.

HewenttoJared
12-08-2009, 10:25 AM
Given the beliefs of The Family it's not that far-fetched.

gmwise
12-09-2009, 12:49 PM
GM, I've done all that because your little snippet was the first I'd ever heard of such an "organization" and the assertions were so outrageous I wanted to see proof. I've looked into it and I've read the support given about it and my conclusion is that its nothing more than wild speculation. I read this and other pieces from the author and what I read is what led me to my opinion. If there were any credibility to it, the major media would be all over it. Its like 9-11 conspiracy theory. When CNN or ABC or AP or the New York Times gives some confirmable facts then I'll believe it.



Why is Uganda attacking homosexuality? - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/12/08/uganda.anti.gay.bill/index.html)

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
************************************************** ************************************************** ********************
Uganda debates death penalty for gays in proposed law; activists say bill promotes hatred
GODFREY OLUKYA, KATHARINE HOURELD
Associated Press Writers


2:36 PM CST, December 8, 2009


David Cato, a Ugandan gay-rights activist, poses for photographs at a restaurant in Kampala, Uganda, Tuesday, Dec. 8, 2009. Proposed legislation would impose the death penalty for some gay Ugandans, and their family, friends and even landlords also could face up to seven years in jail if they fail to report them to authorities. Cato became an activist after he was beaten up four times, arrested twice, fired from his teaching job and outed in the press because he is gay. (AP Photo/Stephen Wandera) (Stephen Wandera, AP / December 8, 2009)

KAMPALA, Uganda (AP) — Proposed legislation would impose the death penalty for some gay Ugandans, and their family and friends could face up to seven years in jail if they fail to report them to authorities. Even landlords could be imprisoned for renting to homosexuals.

Gay rights activists say the bill, which has prompted growing international opposition, promotes hatred and could set back efforts to combat HIV/AIDS. They believe the bill is part of a continentwide backlash because Africa's gay community is becoming more vocal.

"It's a question of visibility," said David Cato, who became an activist after he was beaten up four times, arrested twice, fired from his teaching job and outed in the press because he is gay. "When we come out and ask for our rights, they pass laws against us."

The legislation has drawn global attention from activists across the spectrum of views on gay issues. The measure was proposed in Uganda following a visit by leaders of U.S. conservative Christian ministries that promote therapy for gays to become heterosexual. However, at least one of those leaders has denounced the bill, as have some other conservative and liberal Christians in the United States.

Gay-rights activists say the legislation is likely to pass. But the bill is still being debated and could undergo changes before a vote, which has not yet been set.

The Ugandan legislation in its current form would mandate a death sentence for active homosexuals living with HIV or in cases of same-sex rape. "Serial offenders" also could face capital punishment, but the legislation does not define the term. Anyone convicted of a homosexual act faces life imprisonment.

Anyone who "aids, abets, counsels or procures another to engage of acts of homosexuality" faces seven years in prison if convicted. Landlords who rent rooms or homes to homosexuals also could get seven years and anyone with "religious, political, economic or social authority" who fails to report anyone violating the act faces three years.

Gay-rights activists abroad are focusing on the legislation. A protest against the bill is planned for Thursday in London; protests were held last month in New York and Washington.

David Bahati, the legislator sponsoring the bill, said he was encouraging "constructive criticism" to improve the law, but insisted strict measures were necessary to stop homosexuals from "recruiting" schoolchildren.

"The youths in secondary schools copy everything from the Western world and America," said high school teacher David Kisambira. "A good number of students have been converted into gays. We hear there are groups of people given money by some gay organizations in developed countries to recruit youth into gay activities."

Uganda's ethics minister, James Nsaba Buturo, said the death sentence clause would probably be reviewed but maintained the law was necessary to counter foreign influence. He said homosexuality "is not natural in Uganda," a view echoed by some Ugandans.

"I feel that the bill is good and necessary, but I don't think gays should be killed. They should be imprisoned for about a year and warned never to do it again. The family is in danger in Uganda because the rate at which vice is spreading is appalling," said shopkeeper John Muwanguzi.

Uganda is not the only country considering anti-gay laws. Nigeria, where homosexuality is already punishable by imprisonment or death, is considering strengthening penalties for activities deemed to promote it. Burundi just banned same-sex relationships and Rwanda is considering it.

Homophobia is rife even in more tolerant African countries.

In Kenya, homosexuality is illegal but the government has acknowledged its existence by launching sexual orientation survey to improve health care. Nevertheless, the recent marriage of two Kenyan men in London caused outrage. The men's families in Kenya were harassed by reporters and villagers.

In South Africa, the only African nation to recognize gay marriage, gangs carry out so-called "corrective" rapes on lesbians. A 19-year-old lesbian athlete was gang-raped, tortured and murdered in 2008.

Debate over the Ugandan bill follows a conference in Kampala earlier this year attended by American activists who consider same-gender relationships sinful, and believe gays and lesbians can become heterosexual through prayer and counseling. Author Don Schmierer and "sexual reorientation coach" Caleb Lee Brundidge took part; they did not respond to interview requests.

A third American who took part in the conference in Uganda, Scott Lively, said the bill has gone too far.

"I agree with the general goal but this law is far too harsh," said Lively, a California-based preacher and author of "The Pink Swastika" and other books that advise parents how to "recruit-proof" their children from gays.

"Society should actively discourage all sex outside of marriage and that includes homosexuality ... The family is under threat," he said. Gay people "should not be parading around the streets," he added.

Frank Mugisha, a gay Ugandan human rights activist, said the bill was so poorly worded that someone could be imprisoned for giving a hug.

"This bill is promoting hatred," he said. "We're turning Uganda into a police state. It will drive people to suicide."

Buturo played down the influence of foreign evangelicals, saying the proposed legislation was an expression of popular outrage against "repugnant" practices. But activists like Cato argue anti-gay attitudes are a foreign import.

"In the beginning, when the missionaries brought religion, they said they were bringing love," he said. "Instead they brought hate, through homophobia."

Susan Timberlake, a senior adviser on human rights and law from UNAIDS, said such laws could hinder the fight against HIV/AIDS by driving people further underground. And activists also worry that the legislation could be used to blackmail or silence government critics.

Cato said he thinks the Ugandan bill will pass, perhaps in an altered form.

"It's such a setback. But I hope we can overcome it," he said. "I cannot believe this is happening in the 21st century."

___

Associated Press Writer Katharine Houreld reported from Nairobi, Kenya.

Stan Silliman
12-10-2009, 08:50 AM
AP & CNN are in on the anti-gay-laws-being-passed-in-Uganda-story. No one questions that is going on.

What is at play is whether "The Family" wrote the laws. Did they sit down with David Bahati and write the bill? That's the major question CNN or the New York Times has yet to establish.

By the way, did anyone notice how many of the major Ugandan players in the AP story were named David?

mugofbeer
12-10-2009, 09:50 AM
AP & CNN are in on the anti-gay-laws-being-passed-in-Uganda-story. No one questions that is going on.

What is at play is whether "The Family" wrote the laws. Did they sit down with David Bahati and write the bill? That's the major question CNN or the New York Times has yet to establish.

By the way, did anyone notice how many of the major Ugandan players in the AP story were named David?

The wire stories never mentioned anything called "The Family" (or whether any such sinister sounding organization exists) or any other organization other than talking about the influence of a group of "Conservative Christian ministries." Thats a far cry from the much larger consipiracy theory of top Republican politicians and leaders actively supporting "genocide" or trying anyone in front of international tribunals.

You're still not there, GM.

gmwise
12-10-2009, 10:10 AM
The wire stories never mentioned anything called "The Family" (or whether any such sinister sounding organization exists) or any other organization other than talking about the influence of a group of "Conservative Christian ministries." Thats a far cry from the much larger consipiracy theory of top Republican politicians and leaders actively supporting "genocide" or trying anyone in front of international tribunals.

You're still not there, GM.

it took them a awhile to focus on it, it will take sometime for some investigative journalist time to wade through to help those who already put blindfolds on and earplugs on...and you there..

mugofbeer
12-10-2009, 10:16 AM
it took them a awhile to focus on it, it will take sometime for some investigative journalist time to wade through to help those who already put blindfolds on and earplugs on...and you there..

We'll see.......until that happens its still another conspiracy theory/personal-reputation-destruction attack the left seems to employ all too often that, at this time, is without merit or support - just something someone said.

gmwise
12-10-2009, 11:00 AM
Did you not read the list of "Family" members( in the link I provided at the start of the posts) include the left?

Bunty
12-11-2009, 06:11 PM
Where does all this intense hatred against gays throughout the world come from, anyway? Do some people actually find gay sex acts so grotesquely repellent down to the very depths of their souls that they want harm done to gays? Or was there once a very great man made disaster in ancient human history, and it was found that gays were to blame for it?

Meantime, Inhofe and Coburn might as well express their distaste and lack of support for the proposed anti-gay legislation in Uganda since they are part of "the Family" with at least one member supporting such legislation. Or would they be too afraid of being too soft on homosexuality by Oklahoma voters?

gmwise
12-11-2009, 08:04 PM
....
Meantime, Inhofe and Coburn might as well express their distaste and lack of support for the proposed anti-gay legislation in Uganda since they are part of "the Family" with at least one member supporting such legislation. Or would they be too afraid of being too soft on homosexuality by Oklahoma voters?

You know where's theres smoke there's fire.
And they're both having to explain themselves to other members of the Senate.
Notice how Rick Warren outright lied, that he knew anything about it, yet there's vidoes showing him talking about it WAY before it was proposed in Uganda by the "legislator".
And now he's calling for Uganda pastors to stand up against it.
WHAT A HYPOCRITE!
Not only does he help plan genocide in the name of religion, he cant take the heat for being called on the carpet for his genocidal plans.
You know once we determine the Goebbels and the Himmler, Goring, we can hunt down and bring the light of day on the Hitler.

Stan Silliman
12-12-2009, 10:15 AM
Where does all this intense hatred against gays throughout the world come from, anyway? Do some people actually find gay sex acts so grotesquely repellent down to the very depths of their souls that they want harm done to gays? Or was there once a very great man made disaster in ancient human history, and it was found that gays were to blame for it?

Meantime, Inhofe and Coburn might as well express their distaste and lack of support for the proposed anti-gay legislation in Uganda since they are part of "the Family" with at least one member supporting such legislation. Or would they be too afraid of being too soft on homosexuality by Oklahoma voters?

So if Inhofe and Inhofe don't want to appear, for voters sake, soft on homosexuality does that mean they come off as hard on homosexuality? Is that the only thing they're hard on? Will voters then carry placards reading "Inhofe hard on homos"?

You have to wonder if bible thumpers are thankful for AIDES? Do they mumble a secret prayer thanking god for the AIDES epidemic? For then it gives them a handy excuse to hate gays. Something like "Thank you, God. Sure millions had to die BUT this justifies everything I've lived for."

mugofbeer
12-13-2009, 10:40 PM
Where does all this intense hatred against gays throughout the world come from, anyway? Do some people actually find gay sex acts so grotesquely repellent down to the very depths of their souls that they want harm done to gays? Or was there once a very great man made disaster in ancient human history, and it was found that gays were to blame for it?

Meantime, Inhofe and Coburn might as well express their distaste and lack of support for the proposed anti-gay legislation in Uganda since they are part of "the Family" with at least one member supporting such legislation. Or would they be too afraid of being too soft on homosexuality by Oklahoma voters?

After memories of my college days and then working with hundreds in a large company in Dallas, I can say that there is a significant number of primarily men who dis find the thought of gay sex acts repugnant. These weren't people just from the south in either case but people who were from all over primarily east of the Rockies.

With regard to your Inhofe/Coburn comment - though I doubt either will ever openly support gay rights, just because someone is silent about an issue doesnt mean they take one side or the other. It doesnt appear this issue is high on their radar right now.

fire121
12-14-2009, 07:25 PM
I seem to recall all the lefties on here defending the Iranian government during the fraudulent elections a few months ago. The consensus was let them sort their own problems out. Their leader is allowed to enter our country and is interviewed by the fawning left wing media and allowed to speak at the UN.
Here's a photo of this same Iranian government hanging a couple of 18 y/o gay men.
And the left wants to negotiate with these animals?
You gotta love that religion of peace.

http://skeptically.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/gay-iranians.jpg

The article Iran Hangs Gays to Please God (http://skeptically.org/hhor/id10.html)

Keep worrying about the family while the muslim population explodes.

gmwise
12-15-2009, 07:21 AM
Yea, there you have it.
"the gays must die."

Nazis, Christian fundamentalists, Islamic fundamentalists, Republicans, and people who dont speak up.

gmwise
12-15-2009, 07:37 AM
... With regard to your Inhofe/Coburn comment - though I doubt either will ever openly support gay rights, just because someone is silent about an issue doesnt mean they take one side or the other. It doesnt appear this issue is high on their radar right now.


After weeks of growing pressure to speak out against a draconian bill against homosexuals in Uganda that is backed by many of his Christian allies in the U.S. and the East African nation, Pastor Rick Warren on Thursday released a video and statement defending his earlier silence but also vigorously condemning the bill.
A number of prominent U.S. politicians are also associated with the conservative Christian movement in Uganda, includes leading GOP Sens. James Inhofe, Sam Brownback, Tom Coburn and Mike Enzi -- and the Ugandan legislator, David Bahati, who introduced the tough new anti-gay bill.
Rick Warren's video encyclical could be the nail in the bill's coffin, or it could at least pave the way for others to raise their voices.
Sen. Coburn on Thursday also came out against the Ugandan legislation:

"Over the past two decades, political, religious, and community leaders in Uganda have united to promote a rare, winning strategy against HIV that addresses the unique and common risks of every segment of society," Coburn says. "Sadly, some who oppose Uganda's common sense ABC strategy are using an absurd proposal to execute gays to undermine this coalition and winning strategy. Officials in Uganda should come to their senses and take whatever steps are necessary to withdraw this proposal that will do nothing but harm a winning strategy that is saving lives."

Republican Sens. John Ensign (NV), James Inhofe (OK), and Sam Brownback (KS), who have ties to The Family, which has influenced the Ugandan legislation. Ensign called the legislation "pretty outrageous" and said he would consider signing onto a potential congressional resolution denouncing it. Inhofe said he wasn't familiar with the specific legislation but said that such a measure was wrong. Brownback refused to comment because he didn't know the "specifics" of the bill.

On Wednesday, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) refused to condemn the Anti-Homosexuality Bill being considered by the Ugandan parliament, saying that he was too busy to comment on it, and despite weeks of international and national news attention (and pressure from the group One Iowa), he didn’t know anything about it. His silence quickly criticized, especially since other busy lawmakers have spoken out forcefully about it. But on Friday, Grassley finally came out with a statement, calling the Ugandan bill “un-Christian and unjust“:

Grassley said his “commitment to traditional values” and “respect for life” holds true both in the United States and around the world. So with that in mind, after he learned more about the proposed legislation through the U.S. State Department, he was able to conclude that it is wrong and should be rejected.

“Based on what I’ve been able to learn about the legislation and from the stand point that I’m a born again Christian, I can tell you that I don’t agree with this un-Christian and unjust proposal, and I hope the Ugandan officials dismiss it,” he said.

Now attention may turn to President Obama, who has not addressed the issue, as well as Pope Benedict XVI. Catholics make up more than a third of Uganda's population, and a word from the pontiff could go along way toward killing the bill.



First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.

:by Martin Niemöller

“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

Edmund Burke quote

Bunty
12-16-2009, 11:26 PM
Well, at least those Republicans thought it was important enough to let it be known they are opposed to the proposed Ugandan anti-gay law and instead of one or two, it was nearly all of them.

ronronnie1
12-20-2009, 12:17 AM
Homophobe Rick Warren.... and Obama had this nut speak at his inauguration?!?

Don't think I'll bother voting in the next election.

Stan Silliman
12-26-2009, 01:07 PM
Keep worrying about the family while the muslim population explodes.

Fire,

What is meant by that statement?

I can only assume you are meaning that Muslims are out populating the West. Does that mean we should be in a baby-making race? For fear the Islamists will overtake us in sheer manpower?

I think that's what you're saying. If so, for shame.

mugofbeer
12-28-2009, 10:19 PM
Fire,

What is meant by that statement?

I can only assume you are meaning that Muslims are out populating the West. Does that mean we should be in a baby-making race? For fear the Islamists will overtake us in sheer manpower?

I think that's what you're saying. If so, for shame.

I think what he is saying is that while Islamists are trying to blow everyone who isn't an Islamist up, The Family (so the web conspiracists call them) shouldn't be at the top of your list of groups to worry about.

Stan Silliman
12-29-2009, 12:44 PM
I think what he is saying is that while Islamists are trying to blow everyone who isn't an Islamist up, The Family (so the web conspiracists call them) shouldn't be at the top of your list of groups to worry about.

Gosh, I wish Fire could answer for himself without others always assuming what's going on in his head.

Here's the line again: "Keep worrying about the family while the muslim population explodes."

Fire didn't capitalize the word "family" so I didn't think he specifically talking about "The Family". Fire's quote could just as easily been a signature line as a jab at liberals who wish to promote population control (condoms, birth control pills, sterilization, abortion) while pointing out that the Muslims are reproducing like rabbits and before long they've have population superiority numbers.

mugofbeer
12-30-2009, 12:05 PM
Gee, Slingin' Stan, put the guns down! Fire didn't answer and its and interesting topic. Perhaps some of us would simply like to keep the conversation going.

You're take may be true because all you have to do is look at relative birth rates in virtually any muslim country vs. virtually any industrialized country.