So I've been tuning into KTOK the last few days after work at 5pm. Mark Shannon's show is basically bashing MAPS 3 everyday, and MAPS 3 is a conspiracy yada yada. I called into the show to show my support of MAPS 3, got me on air, hung up as soon as I disagreed with him. I called back and they said yeah you disagreed with him so we hung up on you. I said so oh, you cry on air that no one calls in supporting MAPS when in fact they do but you hang up on them. Mark Shannon is a whiny punk that needs to be exposed for what he is.

What's his conspiracy theory?

Just curious, is he completely against MAPs3, or is he against MAPs3 because he thinks there should instead be a tax increase for fire and policia?

I suspect the former, based solely on some postings here at OKCTalk but I don't tune in so decided asking made sense.

So I've been tuning into KTOK the last few days after work at 5pm. Mark Shannon's show is basically bashing MAPS 3 everyday, and MAPS 3 is a conspiracy yada yada. I called into the show to show my support of MAPS 3, got me on air, hung up as soon as I disagreed with him. I called back and they said yeah you disagreed with him so we hung up on you. I said so oh, you cry on air that no one calls in supporting MAPS when in fact they do but you hang up on them. Mark Shannon is a whiny punk that needs to be exposed for what he is.

Mark lives in Edmond, so like David Glover, he doesn't have a dog in the fight.

... like David Glover, he doesn't have a dog in the fight.

That's a name I've not seen in a spell. Did he sit this round of out, or have I simply had DG blindness?

What's his conspiracy theory?
Take a look! It's no conspiracy. It's facts!
Cornett Blogs (http://markshannon.com/CORNETT.htm)
Keep calling. I'd love to hear him beat down your thoughts on why this is good for Oklahoma City.

Mark Shannon is a whiny punk that needs to be exposed for what he is.
He must have really gotten under your skin. It's ok for him to differ in opinion and vote you know. It's the American way. I've only see him things that are FACTS..the speculation on what THIS maps will do for the city...has been done by the CITY...and the chamber etc...

What's your evil plan for exposure?:doh:

Is Mark Shannon a teabagger? I don't listen to his show, but from what I read here he seems like a "Palin/Beck 2012" guy to me. It says a lot about the overall worthlessness of KTOK that they would grant this lying buffoon airtime.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's a teabagger.

And it's pretty offensive that he's railing against something HE CAN'T EVEN VOTE ON.

How would you like some Canadian or Brit getting on TV every day and telling you who to vote for for president?

The people who listen to Mark Shannon were almost assuredly going to vote "no" regardless. He was also against the Ford Center MAPS, and clearly that had no effect on the outcome of the election. He's only pro-police and fire because it suits him, because I can almost guarantee you he is decidedly anti-union.

So I've been tuning into KTOK the last few days after work at 5pm. Mark Shannon's show is basically bashing MAPS 3 everyday, and MAPS 3 is a conspiracy yada yada. I called into the show to show my support of MAPS 3, got me on air, hung up as soon as I disagreed with him. I called back and they said yeah you disagreed with him so we hung up on you. I said so oh, you cry on air that no one calls in supporting MAPS when in fact they do but you hang up on them. Mark Shannon is a whiny punk that needs to be exposed for what he is.
That goes without saying, Metro. Not worth the time to bother.

How'd I guess that iron would have to comment on this one....

Mark lives in Edmond, so like David Glover, he doesn't have a dog in the fight.

I suspect a lot of the opposition lives in surrounding communities. They want development to continue to leave the city for their community to increase their tax base as the city's erodes. Strengthening the core with regionally competitive services and facilities is the best way for the city to maintain its strength in the region and I think a lot of people outside the city don't want that to happen.

the speculation on what THIS maps will do for the city...has been done by the CITY...and the chamber etc...

And the speculation has been countered with even wilder speculation by special interest groups who aren't even effected by the vote and are speciously using it as an attention grab and playing to people's fear. What they are basically saying is that every tax initiative that doesn't give THEM a disproportionate share of revenue is somehow AGAINST them. It's as if every funding initiative is about them and it's just not that way.

I suspect a lot of the opposition lives in surrounding communities. They want development to continue to leave the city for their community to increase their tax base as the city's erodes. Strengthening the core with regionally competitive services and facilities is the best way for the city to maintain its strength in the region and I think a lot of people outside the city don't want that to happen.

It is my understanding, too, that a substantial percentage of OKC Police and Fire personnel don't live in OKC city limits. I recall during the December 2007 GO Bond election that the city's PIO had a hard time finding qualified police personnel to promote the election, when most were not eligible to vote. I call it hypocrisy, but their influence in my neighborhood is pretty powerful. I'm the only one on my street and block with "Yes" signs, amidst a sea of "Not This Maps" signs.

I'm the only one on my street and block with "Yes" signs, amidst a sea of "Not This Maps" signs.

I'm curious. If you were there and can recall, what was your street like during the Finish the Ford Center vote, or the last big bond issue, or MAPs4Kids or the public safety dedicated tax or MAPs original?

Is Mark Shannon a teabagger?
That's classy. From the same whiny folks that cry personal attacks every other post.

He was also against the Ford Center MAPS, and clearly that had no effect on the outcome of the election.
I'm not sure that's true betts. I'm sure he's said he was for the first two MAPS.

And it's pretty offensive that he's railing against something HE CAN'T EVEN VOTE ON.
There are several on this site that's can't vote either, but that doesn't keep them from putting their two cents in.

I don't listen to his show, but from what I read here he seems like a "Palin/Beck 2012" guy to me.
That's a laugh. I'm pretty sure the majority of the supporters of this TAX are Palin/Beck guys and gals. Right? Let's see. Aren't Hump, the mayor, norick and the like Conservatives? Those are your people aren't they? They are the ones your following blindly. Get a clue>

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/10/1/633584945109156823-trolling.jpg

Those are your people aren't they?

That's what funny about the opposition. It's more about the "us against them" rebel mentality and not so much about what is best for the city long term. I don't particularly like a lot of these people or like how they conduct business, but the benefits of MAPS will be around a lot longer than they are, as will the eroding position of the city in the region if MAPS does not pass. I'm not going to deny my city a chance to remain competitive in the future or have my kids grow up in the same half-assed city I grew up in just to spite a few arrogant politicians.

The funny thing is that the first MAPS had many of the problems the opposition suggests will happen with this one: funding shortage (we had to vote on it twice to pay for it), compromised projects (many were not built exactly the way it was first proposed), and questionable oversight. However, the difference it made on the city is invaluable, even if you just consider the elevated confidence it gave the community as a whole. So, really I think this MAPS could stand to be compromised and still have an tremendous positive impact. If they screw it up and they lose the politicians lose their jobs over it, I will feel no sympathy for them. In fact, I would do what I can as a citizen to bring light to that failure.

You never know for sure what will really happen. But the one thing you can say for certain is that a no vote on December 8 GUARANTEES at least a compromise on all these projects if any of them get built at all in the next ten years, even if that compromise is simply a delay, which, imo, would be a catastrophe for the city. Even if some projects are built later through a different funding source (i.e debt), the delay will assure a loss in competitive advantage.

In the end, a YES vote is the only thing that gives the city a CHANCE to compete in the future, even with its own suburbs. I am pretty sure it won't meet all the promises or maybe not be a pretty as the current renderings, but at least it will be moving forward to ensure the city's viability within the region.

It is my understanding, too, that a substantial percentage of OKC Police and Fire personnel don't live in OKC city limits.
Substantial percentage? Wrong.

but their influence in my neighborhood is pretty powerful. I'm the only one on my street and block with "Yes" signs, amidst a sea of "Not This Maps" signs.
It's not because of Police and Fire this isn't going to pass. Citizens are seeing through the bull and are struggling. Unfortunately, you and the few others that are Pro-maps are in the minority. Unless, they just don't get out and vote. This MAPS vote will be a resounding NO. NO to MAPS folks are voting No for a myriad of reasons. Many are NO despite the Police and Fire issues.

Substantial percentage? Wrong.

It's not because of Police and Fire this isn't going to pass. Citizens are seeing through the bull and are struggling. Unfortunately, you and the few others that are Pro-maps are in the minority. Unless, they just don't get out and vote. This MAPS vote will be a resounding NO. NO to MAPS folks are voting No for a myriad of reasons. Many are NO despite the Police and Fire issues.

I've heard TV media say that 2/3 of fire and police personnel live outside the City limits. If that's true, then I'd call it a substantial percentage.

Where are your polling numbers that say Maps will fail? Explain how you know how residents will vote.

I used to listen because he was interesting even thought he's a little far out sometimes, but he's said many many times he lives in Edmond... So really who wants to hear the same rant everyday? If I only had a dollar for everytime he mentioned the words "Mick Cornett" and "Ackerman McQueen" and "Chamber of Commerce" - It's got to effect their ratings Maps shouldn't be drug into a conservative vs libral fight it's rediculous, its a penny per dollar that's already there...

Substantial percentage? Wrong.

It's not because of Police and Fire this isn't going to pass. Citizens are seeing through the bull and are struggling. Unfortunately, you and the few others that are Pro-maps are in the minority. Unless, they just don't get out and vote. This MAPS vote will be a resounding NO. NO to MAPS folks are voting No for a myriad of reasons. Many are NO despite the Police and Fire issues.

I'm not going to start a fight with you, but based on my sources, about 60 percent of OKC PD do not live in the city limits. That is what I heard from city staff.

I'm curious. If you were there and can recall, what was your street like during the Finish the Ford Center vote, or the last big bond issue, or MAPs4Kids or the public safety dedicated tax or MAPs original?

I must admit that I have a professional interest in city elections. I work for a group that has contracts with the city.

Having said that, I can recall being the only one on my block with yes signs for the Ford Center vote, the GO Bond issue and Maps for Kids. I live in an older neighborhood west of downtown that could be considered a gentrified neighborhood. I also vote in every single election.

My neighbors respect my community standing and my political beliefs. I was also one of the few with an Obama sign in my yard...

I must admit that I have a professional interest in city elections. I work for a group that has contracts with the city.

Having said that, I can recall being the only one on my block with yes signs for the Ford Center vote, the GO Bond issue and Maps for Kids. I live in an older neighborhood west of downtown that could be considered a gentrified neighborhood. I also vote in every single election.

My neighbors respect my community standing and my political beliefs. I was also one of the few with an Obama sign in my yard...

Ok, so while not conclusive, it does seems you are often on the victorious side in final vote tallys, notwithstanding residing in an area where your position garners minimal support from your neighbors.

May your record also be intact after the Dec. 8 votes are cast.
:LolLolLol

Substantial percentage? Wrong.

It's not because of Police and Fire this isn't going to pass. Citizens are seeing through the bull and are struggling. Unfortunately, you and the few others that are Pro-maps are in the minority. Unless, they just don't get out and vote. This MAPS vote will be a resounding NO. NO to MAPS folks are voting No for a myriad of reasons. Many are NO despite the Police and Fire issues.

Substantial percentage wrong? With only 1/3 of fire employees living in OKC? How is that wrong?

I must admit that I have a professional interest in city elections. I work for a group that has contracts with the city.

Having said that, I can recall being the only one on my block with yes signs for the Ford Center vote, the GO Bond issue and Maps for Kids. I live in an older neighborhood west of downtown that could be considered a gentrified neighborhood. I also vote in every single election.

My neighbors respect my community standing and my political beliefs. I was also one of the few with an Obama sign in my yard...

This describes my situation to a tee, as well!

LOL.

(although I don't work for the city....)

Mark lives in Edmond, so like David Glover, he doesn't have a dog in the fight.Not saying that I disagree, but if thats the case, that goes for quite a few others around here.

I'm not going to start a fight with you, but based on my sources, about 60 percent of OKC PD do not live in the city limits. That is what I heard from city staff.I think your facts are pretty close, based upon what staff has told you. Because what staff told you is pretty close to being factual. But I bet if you ask staff the same question, about where they reside, you would get pretty close to the same fact.

I must say, I understand people being pro-MAPS who don't live here. There's a sense of pride in watching your home city build things and improve. Plus, most of them have no bigger forum than this. But, if you don't live in OKC, and you aren't a fireman or a policeman, then I have a BIG problem with anti-MAPS rhetoric. It's a personal choice to actually drive to OKC to shop for those people, and they can avoid the tax completely if they wish. Their policemen and firemen aren't involved in this dispute. It's really none of Mark Shannon's business what we choose to do in our city, and I resent him sticking his nose in our business again. He did it with the Ford Center vote, and luckily had no effect.

Speaking of which, there were 18,000 plus people having an amazing time last night in the Ford Center, and on national television. Three years ago they had to make the big decision of which other city's team to watch on television. This is better. I haven't kept track of how many pennies I've contributed to the Ford Center redo, but it was worth every one of them. If anyone watched it on ESPN and can tell us what shots of OKC they showed, I'd appreciate it. That's the kind of advertising a city can't get without a professional team.

...But the one thing you can say for certain is that a no vote on December 8 GUARANTEES at least a compromise on all these projects if any of them get built at all in the next ten years, even if that compromise is simply a delay, which, imo, would be a catastrophe for the city. Even if some projects are built later through a different funding source (i.e debt), the delay will assure a loss in competitive advantage....

Have a few questions:
1. Don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, what do you mean by "catastrophe"?

2. Why do you think a delay would be a "catastrophe"?

The rest don't really require an answer but are there your your info:

3. You do realize that MAPS 3 has been delayed already? That they were talking about MAPS 3 at least as early as 2003? Humphreys was Mayor and current OSU president, Burns Hargis was head of the Chamber. It has been delayed until the MAPS for Kids tax ended. Then delayed again when the Ford tax came along.

4. You do realize that THE "economic engine", the one that is going to supply the lions share of the jobs, the one that is going to nearly triple the convention center business (direct sales and hotel/motel tax revenue, broader economic impact etc.) is purposefully being delayed to be "staged" last and won't be open until 10 years from now (according to the Mayor)?

5. Did you know that the convention center as planned is meeting the CURRENT requirements of a Tier 2 city (and does nothing to address what the projected needs will be 10 years from now)? That the convention center, as announced is not the complete convention center that the Chamber's consultants say we need NOW. That it is being built in two phases. That we are only getting Phase 1 with MAPS 3. That Phase 2 will cost another $120M+ (2009 dollars)?

Thanks in advance!

The catastrophe I see is that the reputation OKC has been nurturing the last sixteen years has been one of being forward thinking and determined to build the quality of life for it's citizens. The defeat of MAPs three will definetly harm that reputation. Any momentum we have developed will be slowed tremendously. If any company was looking at moving here they will have second thoughts. The sad part is that this will come from the efforts of city employees that in truth appear to only care about their agenda. MAPs three is not perfect, but it is still a momentum builder. Defeat will certainly cause OKC to take a hit.

Mark Shannon put my video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHAd1PjYLSE) on his http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2651/4138849931_6949601741.jpg YouTube Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHAd1PjYLSE) The figures come from Tom Anderson - project coordinator for the city, a past city budget director, and Mark Snead /OSU Economics Professor and OKC's Budget Forecaster

Ah, you and your poor math skillz are back. It was only a matter of time.

$1500/person/year = $214/year/person or $17.83 per month per person.

To spend $17.83/month as part of a 1% sales tax, one would have to spend $1,783 per month on purchases subject to a sales tax.

Now, I don't know about David Glover, but no way in Hades do most OKC residents, having a median income somewhere in the neighborhood of $35K are spending that kind of money.

Making such specious claims really does impair one's credibility.

Midtowner jumps to conclusion and must must not have watched the video - The figures come from Tom Anderson - project coordinator for the city, a past city budget director, and Mark Snead /OSU Economics Professor and OKC's Budget Forecaster. Call the Chamber if you press them they will admit the same figures. Let me know what they say. Like the mayor you seem to want to fool people.

$1500/person/year = $214/year/person or $17.83 per month per person.

To spend $17.83/month as part of a 1% sales tax, one would have to spend $1,783 per month on purchases subject to a sales tax.

Now, I don't know about David Glover, but no way in Hades do most OKC residents, having a median income somewhere in the neighborhood of $35K are spending that kind of money.

Making such specious claims really does impair one's credibility.

I have to agree here. There must be some major components missing, such as purchases made in OKC from out of town residents and sales taxes paid on business transactions. It does not make mathmatical sense to equate this only to individual Oklahoma City citizens.

Silvermoon makes the same mistake Watch the video and then comment

video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHAd1PjYLSE) on his http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2651/4138849931_6949601741.jpg YouTube Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHAd1PjYLSE) The figures come from Tom Anderson - project coordinator for the city, a past city budget director, and Mark Snead /OSU Economics Professor and OKC's Budget Forecaster

Midtowner jumps to conclusion and must must not have watched the video - The figures come from Tom Anderson - project coordinator for the city, a past city budget director, and Mark Snead /OSU Economics Professor and OKC's Budget Forecaster. Call the Chamber if you press them they will admit the same figures. Let me know what they say. Like the mayor you seem to want to fool people.

David, I just broke down the numbers. I don't care where they come from, they don't add up. Now, this might be the amount of money per resident, but if a major premise of your argument is that only residents will be paying sales tax in OKC, then your argument is very fundamentally flawed.

Don't tell me who came up with those numbers, I don't really care. The numbers you give and the manner in which you present them are misleading. Feel free to plead ignorance, otherwise, you're just out and out being dishonest.

Silvermoon makes the same mistake Watch the video and then comment

video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHAd1PjYLSE) on his http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2651/4138849931_6949601741.jpg YouTube Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHAd1PjYLSE) The figures come from Tom Anderson - project coordinator for the city, a past city budget director, and Mark Snead /OSU Economics Professor and OKC's Budget Forecaster

I watched the video. First, where did the 30% of out of town tax spenders come from or did you just make it up? There's no reference. Was that in Anderson's or Sneed's report?

Second, again there is absolutely no reference to what is likely a huge amount of sales tax being paid by businesses when the purchase supplies, etc. from other businesses. When you consider businesses, large and small, and the local businesses that exist to supply them with taxable goods, this has to be considered in the local tax base. This is not referenced at all in the formula you present which, erroneously claims that the burden of $4,000 over the life of the tax will fall exclusively on individual tax payers.

Third, I remember in MAPS I there was a Senior Citizen Sales Tax Refund that equated to the amount paid by the average OKC senior... $32 per year.

You are the one making the same mistake you made during the Ford Center debate, which was voted on in March 2008. A long time ago.

I'm not being dragged into any more of a debate on this subject, as it is simply not worthy of my time. I stand on my objections to your foolish premise that an inflated estimate is place exclusively on the backs of individual citizens, or as you put it during the Ford Center campaign, "every man, woman and child."

I'm not being dragged into any more of a debate on this subject, as it is simply not worthy of my time.
Fair enough SilverSpoon. Just vote NO.

Don't tell me who came up with those numbers, I don't really care. The numbers you give and the manner in which you present them are misleading. Feel free to plead ignorance, otherwise, you're just out and out being dishonest.
An economist came up with the numbers. Why don't you leave the number crunching up to them. What's your expertise in that field? Here give us "Midtowner's" numbers. Maybe you should go down to your Chamber and give them a lesson. Explain to them their numbers are misleading. Do us a favor and start getting the truth out there.

Fair enough SilverSpoon. Just vote NO.

In all fairness I have not read all of your posts as there have been quite a few. However, I do have to compliment you on the tone of your discourse.

Others on both side of the issue have, on occassion, taken the low road, and it really sickens me. I appreciate that, at least as far as I can tell, you have not taken that path.

Our City deserves a more high minded debate. The citizens and many others have made the City what it is today. Whether or not MAPS 3 passes or fails, I'd like to think all of us could hold our heads high after the election with pride knowing that what was said and done was in the best interest for all.

We can all be proud of the progress our City has made in the past 20 years. Can it be improved, yes. There is simply disagreement as to priorities and methods, with passions high on both sides.

I for one cannot wait for December 9th, and hope, whatever happens, that there is not a lot of finger-pointing from the "side" that is not successful.

As a citizen, I will be very ready for a fresh start.

Thanks again Iron.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's a teabagger.

And it's pretty offensive that he's railing against something HE CAN'T EVEN VOTE ON.

How would you like some Canadian or Brit getting on TV every day and telling you who to vote for for president?

Out of curiosity, why is it offensive? What's so offensive about exercising free speech? He works in the city, he has a stake in it. Even if he didn't, he has a right to express his opinion, as do you, Betts, Iron, Doug, Midtowner, Popsy and everyone else.

I don't no why the Pro Maps crowd is even worrying about the Not this Maps campaign. We all know this will pass, because very few people show up to a December election.

Back during the Maps for Kids election I voted at 5:30 that evenving and there only 86 ballots in the bin when I put my ballot in the machine.

Most of the No Voters are going to forget to vote because of work and holiday acitivies so why worry?

...Most of the No Voters are going to forget to vote because of work and holiday acitivies so why worry?

I do think the OKC folks in favor currently have greater numbers. But actually, the no need to worry concept is precisely why there is a need to worry if one favors this MAPs.

Prior MAPs votes were not huge margins, and there was little organized opposition for those votes. In a low turnout vote (and compared to major ballots, this will be a low turnout), if it is close, the race can very well turn on who actually mobilizes folks best in that 12 hour window on the 8th.

Even though I think the Yes folks have the better argument in this particular election, I think the race will be close enough that neither side can afford even the slighest risk of their voters making an assumption it's a done deal.

from: tom.anderson@okc.gov

Dear Mr. Glover,

I enjoyed our conversation this morning.

With regard to your question as to what percent of Oklahoma City sales tax is paid by Oklahoma City citizens, the Finance Department has just recently received information on this topic. Based on an economic analysis conducted by Oklahoma State University economist Dr. Mark Snead, the average Oklahoma City resident can expect to pay about $10 per month for the 15 months the Ford Center Improvements Sales Tax will be in effect. This is based on economic data that shows 30.5% of Oklahoma City's sales taxes are paid by people who live outside the City. For the $120,000,000 estimated to be collected through the one cent sales tax, this means approximately $36.6 million will come from people who are not citizens of Oklahoma City.

I hope this information is responsive to your questions. Please do not hesitate to contact me should you have additional questions or comments.

Regards,

Thomas A. Anderson
Executive Manager - Special Projects
Office of the City Manager

from: tom.anderson@okc.gov

Dear Mr. Glover,

I enjoyed our conversation this morning.

With regard to your question as to what percent of Oklahoma City sales tax is paid by Oklahoma City citizens, the Finance Department has just recently received information on this topic. Based on an economic analysis conducted by Oklahoma State University economist Dr. Mark Snead, the average Oklahoma City resident can expect to pay about $10 per month for the 15 months the Ford Center Improvements Sales Tax will be in effect. This is based on economic data that shows 30.5% of Oklahoma City's sales taxes are paid by people who live outside the City. For the $120,000,000 estimated to be collected through the one cent sales tax, this means approximately $36.6 million will come from people who are not citizens of Oklahoma City.

I hope this information is responsive to your questions. Please do not hesitate to contact me should you have additional questions or comments.

Regards,

Thomas A. Anderson
Executive Manager - Special Projects
Office of the City Manager

Good grief!

I think something is wrong when you are copying and pasting the same damn post in several different threads. That's something that is typically frowned upon on forums.. where are moderators on here?

Good grief!

7.75 (years) * 12(months/year) = 93 * $10/month = $930.

I'm still not sure where he's coming up with $1,500.

7.75 (years) * 12(months/year) = 93 * $10/month = $930.

I'm still not sure where he's coming up with $1,500.

Median income for a family in Oklahoma City is $59,660 (CNN Money). $10/month x 4 x 12 months = $480.

To generate a penny tax payment of $480 per year per person means that the average family would have $11,660 a year to spend on taxes, housing, utilities, transportation, etc (all expenditures not subject to sales tax), and they would then spend $48,000 a year on items subject to sales tax. I don't know about anyone else's household, but in mine that budget wouldn't fly.

As to the $x per OKC resident calculations, don't forget that much of the sales tax revenues come from non-residents like me. I live in a non-OKC bedroom community but much of my purchases are in OKC. Today: Christmas shopping at PSM, coffee at Panera, Christmas lights at Home Depot, etc.

Don't over-simplify and divided total project cost into the number of residents. It won't work.

And even though no-one has asked: No, I don't care much for taxation without representation, which is what this is to me.

But OKCTalker, you have representation in your own city and, some of us may shop where you live and pay taxes there. It's really no different than going to New York and paying the city taxes there. None of us are represented outside our home city. I suppose we could have a national sales tax and apportion the money based on population, but that would really be the only way to avoid the issue of no representation.

You do have a choice, however. You can shop outside of Oklahoma City, as can anyone who disagrees with the MAPS tax should it pass.

And actually, we were given a figure: 30.5% of sales tax is collected from non residents, and that was used in the above calculations.

Read Tom's email to me. Do the math. 30% is paid by non OKC citizens. Call the chamber and ask them, they have said the same thing to me multiple times. No one has supplied any estimates from the City, Chamber or Econ. Professor - mine are from them. As for posting in multiple places, people are making the same incorrect argument in the different locations. I think some proponents have a financial interest in having Maps 3 Pass - I understand - Greed is a powerful motivator for a certain kind of person.

I suspect about 1% at most of MAPS proponents have a financial interest in having MAPS 3 pass. Those people would primarily be local contractors. If I were a local contractor or worked in construction, I would definitely be voting "yes". The rest of us are interested in Oklahoma City and seeing it grow and prosper.

I've written Mr. Anderson and asked him why he didn't factor sales taxes paid by businesses into the data he gave you. When I get an answer, I'll post it here.

I figured out where David's $1500/person number comes from. He's simply taking the population of the city (2008 est. = 551,789) and using it to divide $777,000,000. That comes to $1,408/person which he rounds up to $1,500.

I suppose it's technically true that $777 million comes out to $1,408 per person, but it is simply false that each person will have to pay that $1,408 since you're not accounting for the 30% which is paid by non-citizens.

Taking that 30%, you'd still come in at something around what Tom Anderson said, which simply taking his numbers and considering what most families have in their budget, seems sketchy at best.

But $1,500 as a figure representing something anyone will actually be paying themselves is completely and demonstrably false. There is no source which even begins to suggest that's true.

Midtowner - Watch the video, you are not even quoting it right. Read what Tom Anderson says. Call the Chamber - at least be truthful - you can not be as dense as you are acting.

777 divided by citizens times 30% out of city = about $1000 average per person. Family of 4 $4000

Sigh.

Midtowner - Watch the video, you are not even quoting it right. Read what Tom Anderson says. Call the Chamber - at least be truthful - you can not be as dense as you are acting.

777 divided by citizens times 30% out of city = about $1000 average per person. Family of 4 $4000

Ah, so now you're going to play calvinball with these numbers then?

What does it say on the very first screen?

I'll tell you -- $1,500/person is the cost.

Your credibility is blown upon the appearance of the opening CG.

I used to listen because he was interesting even thought he's a little far out sometimes, but he's said many many times he lives in Edmond... So really who wants to hear the same rant everyday? If I only had a dollar for everytime he mentioned the words "Mick Cornett" and "Ackerman McQueen" and "Chamber of Commerce" - It's got to effect their ratings Maps shouldn't be drug into a conservative vs libral fight it's rediculous, its a penny per dollar that's already there...

What is so ironic about that statement is that Mick Cornett is a conservative. He has done an honorable job keeping municipal politics neutral on a day to day basis. Still, conservatives attacking conservatives. Interesting dynamic.

Midtowner I see you don't understand that that was a one frame screen grab of a video that is actually about 2 minutes long, you must have not noticed the links to the moving pictures and can only focus on the one picture that is just a representation of the longer video and you can not now disassociate with your original incorrect understanding. Would it help if I post pictures of the other words in the video or a transcript - because you seem unable to have a rational debate and are unable to the follow the math and email from Tom Anderson I provided. Call the city and chamber and see what they say.