I'm putting this here becaue it will probably get deleted in the religion section. Seeing how so many want to interject religion into politics, I guess this is indeed the appropriate place for it.

Question for debate: "Is Christianity truly a 'tolerant' religion, or is it just a toned down version of Islam?


And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also. -- Genesis 38:10 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/38.html#10)


Religion. It's given people hope in a world torn apart by religion. -- Jon Stewart

Matthew (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/int_list.html)
While insulting the Pharisees and Sadducees, John the Baptist calls an entire generation a "generation of vipers." 3:7 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/3.html#7)
Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/3.html#10)
Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/7.html#13)
Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/7.html#19)
"the children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/8.html#12)
Jesus tells his disciples to keep away from the Gentiles and Samaritans, and go only to the Israelites. 10:5-6 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/10.html#5)
Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gen/19.html#24)). 10:14-15 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/10.html#14)
Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/10.html#21)
"Whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." 10:33 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/10.html#33)
Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/10.html#34)
Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/11.html#20)
"He that is not with me is against me." 12:30 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/12.html#30)
"Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him." 12:31-32 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/12.html#31)
Jesus often called people names. One of his favorites was to call his adversaries a "generation of vipers." 12:34 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/12.html#34)
Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/13.html#41)
Jesus refuses to heal the Canaanite (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/canaanite.html) (Mk.7:26 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mk/7.html#26) says she was Greek) woman's possessed daughter, saying "it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to the dogs." 15:22-26 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/15.html#22)
The ever-so-kind Jesus calls the Pharisees "hypocrites, wicked, and adulterous." 15:2-3 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/15.html#2)
In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn't have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and "cast him into the outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 22:12-13 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/22.html#12)
Jesus condemns the Jews for being "the children of them which killed the prophets." 23:31 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/23.html#31)
Jesus blames his the Jews (who were then living) for "all the righteous blood" from Abel to Zecharias, 23:35 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/23.html#35)
The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/25.html#30)
Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/25.html#41)
"His blood be on us, and on our children." This verse blames the Jews for the death of Jesus and has been used to justify their persecution for twenty centuries. 27:25 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mt/27.html#25)
Mark (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mk/int_list.html)
Jesus becomes angry at those who said that he had "an unclean spirit," so he announces the unforgivable sin: "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost." 3:29 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mk/3.html#29)
Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mk/6.html#11)
Jesus initially refuses to cast out a devil from a Syrophoenician woman's daughter, calling the woman a "dog". After much pleading, he finally agrees to cast out the devil. 7:27 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mk/7.html#27)
If you're ashamed of Jesus, he'll be ashamed of you. (And you'll go straight to hell.) 8:38 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mk/8.html#38)
Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mk/16.html#16)
Luke (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lk/int_list.html)
Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lk/3.html#9)
John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lk/3.html#17)
Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lk/10.html#10)
Jesus says, "He that is not with me is against me." 11:23 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lk/11.html#23)
Those who "blaspheme against the Holy Ghost" will never be forgiven. 12:10 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lk/12.html#10)
God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lk/12.html#46)
According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13:23-30 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lk/13.html#23)
Jesus also believes the story about Noah's flood and Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lk/17.html#29)
In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lk/19.html#22)
John (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/int_list.html)
People are damned or saved depending only on what they believe. 3:18 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/3.html#18), 36 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/3.html#36)
The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 3:36 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/3.html#36)
John, with his usual anti-Semitism, says that the Jews persecuted Jesus and "sought to slay him." 5:16, 18 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/5.html#16)
John says that Jesus "would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him." 7:1 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/7.html#1)
No one could speak openly about Jesus "for fear of the Jews." 7:13 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/7.html#13)
If you don't believe in Jesus, you will "die in your sins" (and then go to hell). 8:24 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/8.html#24)
Jesus calls his opponents (the Jews) the sons of the devil. 8:44 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/8.html#44)
Once again, "the Jews" are accused of trying to kill Jesus. 11:8 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/11.html#8)
If you don't believe in Jesus you are going to hell. 12:48 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/12.html#48)
Jesus is the only way to heaven. All other religions lead to hell. 14:6 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/14.html#6)
John blames the Jews for the death of Jesus. 19:7 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/19.html#7), 12 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/19.html#12), 14-15 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/19.html#14)
"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father."
If you follow Jesus' teachings, God will love you -- otherwise... well, you know. 14:21 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/14.html#21)
Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be burned. 15:6 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/15.html#6)
Now that Jesus has come, non-believers have no excuse for not believing in him. 15:22 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/15.html#22)
"For fear of the Jews"
You've got to watch out for Jews wherever you go. 19:38 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/19.html#38)
John, with his usual anti-Semitism, says that the disciples hid in locked room "for fear of the Jews." 20:19 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jn/20.html#19)
Acts (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/int_list.html)
Peter blames the Jews for the death of Jesus. 3:14-15 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/3.html#14)
Peter claims that Dt.18:18-19 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/dt/18.html#18) refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all non-Christians) must be killed. 3:23 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/3.html#23)
God will torture forever those who don't know the password to heaven. 4:12 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/4.html#12)
Once again, Peter accuses the Jews of murdering Jesus. 5:30 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/5.html#30)
Stephen blames the Jews for persecuting the prophets and murdering Jesus. 7:51-52 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/7.html#51)
After Saul "increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews," the "Jews took counsel to kill him." 9:22-23 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/9.html#22)
The Jews are again blamed for the death of Jesus. 10:39 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/10.html#39)
Herod kills James the brother of John and imprisons Peter "because he saw it pleased the Jews." 12:1-3 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/12.html#1)
The "angel of the Lord" killed Herod by having him "eaten of worms" because "he gave not God the glory." 12:23 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/12.html#23)
Paul and the Holy Ghost conspire together to make Elymas (the sorcerer) blind. 13:8-11 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/13.html#8)
The Jews of Antioch, after seeing Paul's success in preaching, were envious and blasphemed God. Paul then declares them to be "unworthy of everlasting life." 13:45-46 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/13.html#45)
Once again "the Jews stirred up" trouble and "raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts." 13:50 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/13.html#50)
"The unbelieving Jews" stir up trouble again for Paul and incite the people to try to stone him to death. 14:2-5 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/14.html#2)
In Thessalonica, "the Jews which believed not, moved with envy" stir up trouble for Paul and his friends. 17:5, 13 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/17.html#5)
"And when they [the Jews of Corinth] opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he [Paul] shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads." (Have a nice day?) 18:6 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/18.html#6)
"The Jews made insurrection with one accord against Paul, and brought him to the judgment seat." 18:12 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/18.html#12)
The first Christian book burning occurs when Paul's converts at Ephesus burn 50,000 silver pieces worth of books. 19:19 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/19.html#19)
Poor Paul complains, once again, of being mistreated by "the Jews." 20:19 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/20.html#19)
The Jews, once again, incite the people to kill poor old Paul 21:27, 31 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/21.html#27)
The Jews form a grand conspiracy to kill Paul. They vow not to eat until the job is done. 23:12-15 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/23.html#12)
Claudius saves Paul from being killed by the Jews. 23:27 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/23.html#27)
Those pesky Jews caught Paul and and tried to kill him. But he got away. Darn! 26:21 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/acts/26.html#21)
Romans (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rom/int_list.html)
"The wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 1:18-20 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rom/1.html#18)
The existence and nature of God are self-evident; thus, unbelievers are "without excuse." 1:20 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rom/1.html#20)
Atheists have dark and foolish hearts. 1:21 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rom/1.html#21)
God abandons those who don't know him to "uncleanness and vile affections." 1:24, 26, 28 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rom/1.html#24)
With his usual intolerance, Paul condemns homosexuals (including lesbians). This is the only clear reference to lesbians in the Bible. 1:26-28 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rom/1.html#26)
Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rom/1.html#31)
Paul says that those who accuse him of lying deserve damnation. 3:8 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rom/3.html#8)
"He that doubteth is damned ... Whosoever is not of faith is sin." 14:23 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rom/14.html#23)
Shun those who disagree with your religious views. 16:17 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rom/16.html#17)
1 Corinthians (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/int_list.html)
Christians can judge everything and everybody, but no non-Christian can judge them. 2:15 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/2.html#15)
"Put away from among yourselves that wicked person."</I>
Stay away from "fornicators", "idolaters", and "drunkards". Do not associate, speak to, or eat dinner with such "wicked" people. 5:9-13 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/5.html#9)
"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?" 6:2 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/6.html#2)
Paul lists ten things that will keep you out of heaven, including homosexuality and being "effeminate." 6:9-10 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/6.html#9)
Don't be an idolater. If you become one, God will make you sit down to eat and then rise up to play. 10:7 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/10.html#7)
Paul claims that God killed 23,000 in a plague for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab 10:8 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/10.html#8)
Gentiles sacrifice to devils. If you have gentile friends, then you are friends with devils. 10:20 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/10.html#20)
Those who don't love Jesus are to be "anathema" (damned). 16:22 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1cor/16.html#22)
2 Corinthians (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2cor/int_list.html)
All non-Christians are blind. They were blinded by God to prevent them from seeing the truth. 3:14-16 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2cor/3.html#14)
"The god of this world" has blinded the minds of nonbelievers. 4:3-4 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2cor/4.html#3)
Keep away from unbelievers. Neither marry nor be friends with them. 6:14-17 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2cor/6.html#14)
Christians cannot be freethinkers, since all their thoughts and imaginings must be brought into captivity in obedience to Christ. 10:5 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2cor/10.html#5)
Paul says he "will not spare" when he comes back to punish those who have sinned. 13:2 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2cor/13.html#)
Are you a reprobate? Here's the test: if you know for sure that Jesus is in you, you're not a reprobate. Otherwise you are. 13:5 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2cor/13.html#5)
Galatians (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gal/int_list.html)
If anyone dares to disagree with Paul on religious matters, "let him be accursed." 1:8-9 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gal/1.html#8)
Those who try to follow the law are cursed 3:10 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gal/3.html#10)
"I would they were even cut off which trouble you." Gosh, that doesn't sound very nice. But I wonder what Paul meant by "cut off". The New Revised Standard Version translates this verse as: "I wish those who unsettle you would castrate themselves!" 5:12 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gal/5.html#12)
Witches, idol worshippers, and heretics will not go to heaven. (Guess where they'll be going.) 5:20-21 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gal/5.html#20)
Ephesians (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/eph/int_list.html)
No "unclean person" or "idolater" will inherit the kingdom of God. (They'll all be going to hell.) Don't associate with them. 5:5-7 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/eph/5.html#5)
Those who refuse to obey will face the wrath of God. 5:6 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/eph/5.html#6)
Philippians (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/phil/int_list.html)
Everyone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. 2:10-11 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/phil/2.html#10)
"Beware of dogs ... beware of the concision." I'm not sure who Paul is calling "dogs" here, but it's probably the Jews -- those of "the circumcision," as opposed to Christians, who are of the "true circumcision." 3:2 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/phil/3.html#2)
Colossians (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/col/int_list.html) (None)
1 Thessalonians (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1th/int_list.html)
God is planning a messy, mass murder in "the wrath to come" and only Jesus can save you from it. 1:10 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1th/1.html#10)
Paul accuses "the Jews" of killing Jesus, persecuting the prophets, displeasing God, and being "contrary to all men." He concludes that the wrath of God will "come upon them to the uttermost. 2:15-16 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1th/2.html#15)
2 Thessalonians (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2th/int_list.html)
Jesus will take "vengeance on them that know not God" by burning them forever "in flaming fire." 1:7-9 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2th/1.html#7)
God will cause us to believe lies so that he can damn our souls to hell. 2:11-12 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2th/2.html#11)
Shun those who disagree with your interpretation of this epistle. 3:6, 14 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2th/3.html#6)
1 Timothy (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1tim/int_list.html)
"Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme." Apparently (see 2 Tim.2:16-18 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2tim/2.html#16) and 4:14-15 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2tim/4.html#14)) their "blasphemy" was disagreeing with Paul. 1:20 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1tim/1.html#20)
Stay away from those who discuss important matters -- especially if they disagree with Paul. 6:5 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1tim/6.html#5)
Paul instructs Timothy to avoid science, especially that which disagrees with him ("science falsely so called"). Other versions translate this phrase as "false knowledge", which may be more correct. However many fundamentalist Christians still use this verse ("science falsely so called") to justify their rejection of any idea, scientific or otherwise, they believe contradicts the bible. 6:20 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1tim/6.html#20)
2 Timothy (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2tim/int_list.html)
"If we deny him [Jesus], he will deny us." Fair is fair! 2:12 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2tim/2.html#12)
Shun non-believers and other profane babblers. 2:16 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2tim/2.html#16)
Hymenaeus and Philetus are condemned for disagreeing with Paul about the timing of the resurrection. (See 1 Tim.1:20 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1tim/1.html#20) and 2 Tim.4:14-15 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2tim/4.html#14)) 2:17-18 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2tim/2.html#17)
"The Lord knoweth them that are his." This verse was used by the Catholic Church during the inquisition to justify killing those suspected of heresy. (Kill them all, for `the Lord knows them that are His'." ) 2:19 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2tim/2.html#19)
God will "reward" Alexander for the "blasphemy" of disagreeing with Paul. (See 1 Tim.1:20 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1tim/1.html#20) and 2 Tim.2:16-18 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2tim/2.html#16)) 4:14 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2tim/4.html#14)
Titus (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/tit/int_list.html)
Jews are unruly liars "whose mouths must be stopped." 1:10-11 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/tit/1.html#10)
The people of Crete are "always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies." 1:12 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/tit/1.html#12)
Heretics are to be rejected since they are subverted, sinners, and condemned by God. 3:10-11 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/tit/3.html#10)
Philemon (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/philem/int_list.html) (None)
Hebrews (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/heb/int_list.html)
Every skeptic and nonbeliever has "an evil heart of unbelief." 3:12 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/heb/3.html#12)
It is impossible for fallen-away Christians to be saved. (Didn't the author know about confession or the finality of being saved?) 6:4-6 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/heb/6.html#4)
Those who disobeyed the Old Testament law were killed. It will be much worse for those who displease Jesus. 10:28-29 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/heb/10.html#28)
If you're not a Christian, it's impossible to please God. 11:6 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/heb/11.html#6)
The Israelites kept the passover and sprinkled blood on doorposts so that God wouldn't kill their firstborn children (like he did the Egyptians in Exodus 12:29 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/ex/12.html#29)). 11:28 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/heb/11.html#28)
God saved Rahab because she believed. (He killed all the non-believers in Jericho.) 11:31 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/heb/11.html#31)
James (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jas/int_list.html)
Whoever is a friend of the world is an enemy of God. 4:4 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jas/4.html#4)
1 Peter (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1pet/int_list.html)
Things may get rough for Christians, but it will really be hell for nonbelievers. 4:17-18 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1pet/4.html#17)
2 Peter (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2pet/int_list.html)
The basic message of Christianity is "believe or be damned" and from this flows intolerance toward all non-Christians. But, as these verses show, Christian intolerance is often directed toward believers as well. Each group of Christians accuses the others of being "false teachers" of "damnable heresies" who will soon be damned to hell. 2:1-3 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2pet/2.html#1)
God drowned everyone else on earth except for Noah and his family. 2:5 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2pet/2.html#5), 3:6 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2pet/3.html#6)
God knows how to punish those that "despise government." 2:9-10 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2pet/2.html#9)
God will set the entire earth on fire so that he can burn non-believers to death. 3:7 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2pet/3.html#7)
1 John (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1jn/int_list.html)
"Love not the world." 2:15 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1jn/2.html#15)
Every non-Christian is liar and an antichrist. 2:22 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1jn/2.html#22), 4:2-3 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1jn/4.html#2)
Christians are alive; non-Christians are dead. 5:12 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1jn/5.html#12)
Christians are "of God;" everyone else is wicked. 5:19 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/1jn/5.html#19)
2 John (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2jn/int_list.html)
Non-Christians are deceivers and antichrists. 7 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2jn/1.html#7)
"Whosoever ... abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God." 9 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2jn/1.html#9)
Don't associate with non-Christians. Don't receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 10 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/2jn/1.html#10)
3 John (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/3jn/int_list.html) (None)
Jude (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jude/int_list.html)
God destroys non-believers. 1:5 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/jude/1.html#5)
Revelation (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/int_list.html)
False Jews are members of "the synagogue of Satan." 2:9 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/2.html#9)
Those who obey God/Jesus until the end will rule everyone else with an iron rod. They'll even get to smash the others into smithereens. 2:26-27 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/2.html#26)
God will make "the synagogue of Satan [that would be the Jews] ... come and worship before thy feet." (Whose feet? Well, the feet of Christians, of course!) 3:9 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/3.html#9)
The martyrs just can't wait until everyone else is slaughtered. God gives them a white robe and tells them to wait until he's done with his killing spree. 6:10-11 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/6.html#10)
144,000 Jews will be going to heaven; everyone else is going to hell. 7:4 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/7.html#4)
The angels are instructed not to "hurt the grass [how could they? He already had all the grass killed in 8:7] ... but only those men which have not the seal of God on their foreheads." God tells his angels not to kill them, but rather torment them with scorpions for five months. Those tormented will want to die, but God won't let them. 9:4-6 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/9.html#4)
Only 144,000 celibate men will be saved. (Those who were not "defiled with women.") 14:1-4 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/14.html#1)
Those who receive the mark of the beast will "drink of the wine of the wrath of God ... and shall be tormented with fire and brimstone ... and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever." 14:10-11 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/14.html#10)
"There fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast." 16:2 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/16.html#2)
Christians will fight in the war between Jesus and those allied with the beast. 17:14 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/17.html#14)
Whoever isn't found listed in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. 20:15 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/20.html#15)
All liars, as well as sorcerers, idolaters, and those who are fearful or unbelieving, will be cast into "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." 21:8 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/21.html#8)
"Dogs [homosexuals?], sorcerers, whoremongers, idolaters" and along with anyone who ever told a lie will not enter the heavenly city. 22:15 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/rev/22.html#15)

One question Mr. Instructor - did you come up with this list after personal study or is this a 'copy' and 'paste' kind of deal? Be honest....

It's been said that christianity has had a couple more centuries to become more "tolerant," where as Islam is still where christianity was in the middle ages. I don't know. Tolerant is a relative term, and judging by some Baptists and Catholics, the intolerance is just the same. I just wish there would come a day when people didn't need to cling to religion. I guess it's human nature. Nobody wants to die and that be the END. People take comfort convincing themselves of the existence of a god because it makes death seem easier to accept. But why mix in the hate? This is the ONLY life guaranteed to you. Why not live it without all the dogma of religion? Just seems like a waste to do otherwise.

When I decided to "come out" as an athiest, some family members gave me weird looks. Some friends didn't understand. But for me, leaving all THAT baggage behind was like being cured of cancer. I live my life right because to do so enriches my life, not because I'm threatened by eternal fire. And besides, my IQ would no longer allow me to believe in such myths... I really wish I could suspend disbelief and be a "god fearing" person because I could look forward to seeing my grandmas and my mom and my lost friends again. Unfortunately logic dictates otherwise.

One question Mr. Instructor - did you come up with this list after personal study or is this a 'copy' and 'paste' kind of deal? Be honest....

I C&P'd this list, but growing up, my mother had a library with each individual book of the bible broken down into individual hard-back editions for study, and she studied it big time; and and I was her unwilling student. Learned a hell of a lot from it. And speaking of Hell, she even had one volume dedicated strictly to Hell. One would have to have a degree in biblical studies to have been more exposed to it than I was.

It will be interesting to see the take on it from other knowledgeable folk.

NEWSFLASH: Christianity never claimed to be a politically correct religion.

Religion is just like every other product and service in the land. At some point a handful of end users screw it up for everybody and give it a bad name.

Religion is not flawed. Man is flawed. Man twists the words into his own interpretation and applies it in his own twisted way.

I do not recall seeing anywhere in any book of the bible that encourage hate, rhetoric and the condemnation of others.

I do recall seeing follow the word and wisdom of god and share (not force feed) your knowledge with the world. Even Jesus Christ had critics. He changed hearts and minds with his actions. Any god loving christian understands that. Just like any other group of people we have our lunatic fringe. Unfortunately just like every other group, the lunatic fringe gets all the attention because it sells newspapers and keeps listeners/viewers tuned in drooling for more.

NEWSFLASH: Christianity never claimed to be a politically correct religion.

I bet you think that was cute.

NEWSFLASH: You don't speak for all of Christianity.

It's people like you that give it a bad name. You are your own worst enemy and the reason why people with IQ's above 130 point and laugh at the tripe you spew. Have a nice day! xoxo

Religion is just like every other product and service in the land. At some point a handful of end users screw it up for everybody and give it a bad name.

I'll buy the product and service point. Products and services are created by mankind for mankind, right?


Religion is not flawed. Man is flawed. Man twists the words into his own interpretation and applies it in his own twisted way.

Religion is not flawed? Religion is a creation of man. The bible and koran were written by men. Don't you think "divine" writings written or at least dictated by a supreme being would not be allowed to be flawed and the truth revealed?


I do not recall seeing anywhere in any book of the bible that encourage hate, rhetoric and the condemnation of others.
Surely you jest? The bible is filled with condemnations of unbelievers and heathens and commands to stone your own child to death for sins and commands believers to slay non believers. I'm confused as to how you could make such a statement. Here is just one example:

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.


I do recall seeing follow the word and wisdom of god and share (not force feed) your knowledge with the world. Even Jesus Christ had critics. He changed hearts and minds with his actions. Any god loving christian understands that. Just like any other group of people we have our lunatic fringe. Unfortunately just like every other group, the lunatic fringe gets all the attention because it sells newspapers and keeps listeners/viewers tuned in drooling for more.

Where do you think the lunatic fringe evolves from? Lunatics evolve from mainstream religion. Why do they evolve from mainstream religion? Because the religious texts command them to; they take the texts literally. More rational Christians have learned to pick and choose which portions of the texts they will follow. In other words, rational, reasonable people refuse to follow the ludicrous writings in the bible. That being the case, isn't the next logical step to admit religion is essentially ridiculous and to abondon it alltogether?

All of the "good" that is done under the cloak of religion can be done just as easily and more effectively outside the cloak of religion without offending and ostracizing the other hundreds of different sects of religion and all the associated societal conflict that religion creates.

Look at it this way... Religion is optional in the United States. You can play the game or you can live life by your own means.

Getting rid of something because some people do not like it is just stupid. I hate the world we live in today. There are too many adults that act like children. They think the world has be in their favor and people have to agree with them 100%. In reality your right to your point of view and your idea of a utopia stops at the person standing next to you. People really need to focus more on taking care of themselves and their familes before they worry about what their neighbors are doing.

You can always ignore the religious radicals just like ignore the radical non believers. In my opinion people need to find religion on their own. They do not need to be forced into it.

What I find interesting is most people like you act all powerful and mighty in everyday life. However, when crisis hits and you have nowhere to turn to you to turn to relgion.

My main point is that most religous believers use their faith as a means of coping with the real world and as means of doing what is right. Only a select few use their faith as a tool to judge everyone and make supposed sinners life a living hell.

One of my favorite blible quotes is "He who is without sin casts the first stone". In other words you need to worry about your own sins before you start calling out the sins of others.

Religion is not perfect. I think if non believers and people of faith could learn to get along and stop trying to strong arm people into believing what they believe the world would be a better place.

Look at it this way... Religion is optional in the United States. You can play the game or you can live life by your own means.

Absolutely. Aren't you glad the religo-bots of any religion do not run this country?


Getting rid of something because some people do not like it is just stupid.Keeping a fairy tale philosophy that divides people and attempts to control people through fear of violence is stupid.


I hate the world we live in today.
That's a very sad statement, borne of religious intolerance. This is the only world we have. All the people we love are in this world. I love this world!


There are too many adults that act like children. They think the world has be in their favor and people have to agree with them 100%. In reality your right to your point of view and your idea of a utopia stops at the person standing next to you.
Agreed. Unfortunately, religious utopia does not generally think it should stop with the person standing next to you. Their dogma is to pass it on to the person standing next to them, and many here on this forum and in the U.S. would indeed like to make their religious beliefs enforcable by law.


People really need to focus more on taking care of themselves and their familes before they worry about what their neighbors are doing.
Agreed again. Maybe all that church building and parking lot money and entertainment system money could actually be put to use taking care of peoples own families instead of financing the never ending recruitment needs of the church and the coffers of the political lobbying wings of various religions.


You can always ignore the religious radicals just like ignore the radical non believers. In my opinion people need to find religion on their own. They do not need to be forced into it.
Should we ignore radical Islam? Or should we discuss it and educate people to the facts about what they choose to ignore within their own religious texts?


What I find interesting is most people like you act all powerful and mighty in everyday life. However, when crisis hits and you have nowhere to turn to you to turn to relgion.
Sorry friend, but you are wrong here too. Guess what? You and I are going to die someday. Nothing any amount of praying will do to change that fact. It is very arrogant of you to make such a statement, but I'm not surprised by it. Your religion is not going to save you at your moment of death. When the lights go out, you have no idea what happens next. You might just go straight to hell. It might just be the end right there, fade to black, no memories. You might walk into the light. You might just become enlightened and see all the life you wasted dwelling on the fear based religious teachings of other humans who were just as ignorant as you.


My main point is that most religous believers use their faith as a means of coping with the real world and as means of doing what is right. Only a select few use their faith as a tool to judge everyone and make supposed sinners life a living hell.

You think only religious people are capable of doing what is right?


One of my favorite blible quotes is "He who is without sin casts the first stone". In other words you need to worry about your own sins before you start calling out the sins of others.
I like that quote too. It allows religious people an excuse to attempt to silence critics. I'm not a sinner in my mind, so I'm going to voice my opinion as I see fit. Lots of violent quotes are found in all the Abrahamic religions, and that is a verifiable fact that you nor any other believer can refute.


Religion is not perfect. I think if non believers and people of faith could learn to get along and stop trying to strong arm people into believing what they believe the world would be a better place.

That would be great if religious people stopped the guilt tripping recruitment of new members. What a wonderful world that would be. However, having a discussion on the merits of religion, and the violence written in religious texts is not even remotely in the same vein as guilt-based "faith". Lets keep talking about it. Let's keep reviewing the intolerant religious texts of the worlds religious books and discussing them.

Religion is not a sacred, off-limits subject in a free American society, although it appears the practictioners of it would like it to be. This is evidenced by the comments made when threads like this are posted in any forums. Thankfully, people like me cannot be taken out into the town square and be beheaded for pointing out religious intolerance in bibles, korans and the book of morman and other such texts.

Religion is not perfect. I think if non believers and people of faith could learn to get along and stop trying to strong arm people into believing what they believe the world would be a better place.
Hear hear!
:congrats:

I try to avoid religious fanatics and it doesn't matter if they are pro religion are against it. Fanaticism is a mental illness you can't reason with and they aren't the slightest bit interested in anything but their own obsession.

I try to avoid religious fanatics and it doesn't matter if they are pro religion are against it. Fanaticism is a mental illness you can't reason with and they aren't the slightest bit interested in anything but their own obsession.

Speaking of fanatics; I thought you had me on ignore PQ. Why are you posting in a thread I started?

NEWSFLASH: Islam never claimed to be a politically correct religion.

Replaced the word.

Mr. Instructor,
While there is no way we can see into your heart - it seems like there must be some life changing hurt that either you went through or someone you love went through by some of the things you share.

I'm not making light of your comments nor am I trying to minimize what you are saying. Maybe I'm wrong. But it seems like the thoughts you are sharing are not about different religions. Seems like your thoughts are about lashing out due to some kind of hurt. Am I wrong?

HVAC it is clear see from this posts in this thread and the posts in other thread that you are one of the many people in the United States today that are angry at everything they know.

What I find interesting is that the angry person never takes the time to cure that anger. Instead of addressing the issue or cutting their losses they attack everything they do not like. They cannot leave well enough alone and just live their life.

You can do all the condemnation, education and regulation you desire and people are going to practice religion and carry out the acts you find offensive.

You have your beliefs and I have mine. You can call me every name in the book and attempt to humilate me all you want but, I am still going to believe in God.

Maybe if you spent a little more time enjoying life and little less time complaining you will find the path to happiness.

In my opinion. the biggest key to happiness is to live your life by your standards and allow other people to live life by their standards. No human being is a superhero that is tasked with the duty of saving everyone from themselves. At some point you have to let people learn their own lessons.

The only time you should concern yourself with the lives others is when they are committing an act that has immediate life threatening danger to themselves or others.

Seriously.... get some help with that anger. Life is way to short to live life filled with anger and frustration. You never know when life will stop.

We are not promised tomorrow so make the best of what you have because when it is gone it is gone. There are no do overs or rewinds this is the only life you get make the best of it.

Sometimes anger turns a person into a missionary to help others to know they are not the only ones feeling betrayed or hurt.
Sometimes all evil needs is good people to stay silent.
And posting(writing) allows a way to deal with it, explore what it is that makes one angry.
"to be sure what you believe, and why"
If it cant stand the critical examination then its not a "eternal" matter.

Wouldn't you agree that one of the greatest things we can do as human beings is to forgive? Perhaps much of the intolerance and in some cases even hate really comes from lack of forgiveness. And if you really think about it - forgiveness is the main message of the gospels. Now that doesn't sound like New Testament intolerance does it?

So would you forgive someone in prison or a person who may harm you?
Ok,now if they did it, under the guise of some religion?


Sometimes all evil needs is good people to stay silent.

Raptists,scammers, and others hope the victims stay silent

Sometimes rage, no matter if justified, so clouds the mind that discernment and rationality are destroyed. There are very few things more incidious, for example, than a member of the clergy abusing a child. It robs them of their faith and trust. Some never get over it and most carry around deep scars. Some of the most twisted, messed up and obsessive people I know were abused by priests. It is enough to make you wish for hell so that these b*stards can serve their time. But that doesn't mean that all religious people are that way. Certainly the Catholic church doesn't preach to harm children. I don't know any religion other than perhaps a cult that does. But people will use the cloak of the clergy (or any other vehicle) to get close to children if they are so inclined. Don't know if that is what is going on - he denies it - so not saying that is the root cause. But I have seen it enough that I have to wonder.

So would you forgive someone in prison or a person who may harm you?
Ok,now if they did it, under the guise of some religion?


Sometimes all evil needs is good people to stay silent.

Raptists,scammers, and others hope the victims stay silent

Without question it would be extremely difficult to forgive when any injustice has been done. I'm not saying it would be easy thats for sure. Yet the fact remains the main theme of the gospel's is forgiveness. I believe its a goal to strive for and in some cases achievable. I suppose in spiritual terms forgiveness is not natural - it's really supernatural.

Mr. Instructor,
While there is no way we can see into your heart - it seems like there must be some life changing hurt that either you went through or someone you love went through by some of the things you share.

I'm not making light of your comments nor am I trying to minimize what you are saying. Maybe I'm wrong. But it seems like the thoughts you are sharing are not about different religions. Seems like your thoughts are about lashing out due to some kind of hurt. Am I wrong?

You are incorrect buckt. I actually had an enlightening which freed me forever from the bonds of religion and the accompanying guilt. It was like a giant weight lifted off of me to realize I was now forever free of the chains of religion and fear. No traumatic experience whatsoever. I have felt awesome for several years now. I hope that everyone can feel the way I feel some day, but it is up to the individual person to seek and find this center for themselves.

Observation and discussion of religion is one of my hobbies.

Speaking of fanatics; I thought you had me on ignore PQ. Why are you posting in a thread I started?

HVAC, I've no clue whether Penny, or anyone, has you on ignore. FWIW, even if you are on someone's ignore, it won't block the balance of a thread you participate in, nor a thread you start. If the iggy function here works like ost, it will block your entered comments, but not others.

It may block your words within a quote, or maybe not. I don't use the feature with anyone, to date anyway, so I don't know about that.

HVAC it is clear see from this posts in this thread and the posts in other thread that you are one of the many people in the United States today that are angry at everything they know.

What I find interesting is that the angry person never takes the time to cure that anger. Instead of addressing the issue or cutting their losses they attack everything they do not like. They cannot leave well enough alone and just live their life.

You can do all the condemnation, education and regulation you desire and people are going to practice religion and carry out the acts you find offensive.

You have your beliefs and I have mine. You can call me every name in the book and attempt to humilate me all you want but, I am still going to believe in God.

Maybe if you spent a little more time enjoying life and little less time complaining you will find the path to happiness.

In my opinion. the biggest key to happiness is to live your life by your standards and allow other people to live life by their standards. No human being is a superhero that is tasked with the duty of saving everyone from themselves. At some point you have to let people learn their own lessons.

The only time you should concern yourself with the lives others is when they are committing an act that has immediate life threatening danger to themselves or others.

Seriously.... get some help with that anger. Life is way to short to live life filled with anger and frustration. You never know when life will stop.

We are not promised tomorrow so make the best of what you have because when it is gone it is gone. There are no do overs or rewinds this is the only life you get make the best of it.

Wow. This is amazing. Are you a psychologist? If so, you are certainly not physic nor clairvoyant. I'm the happiest guy you could meet and love every minute of life.

The topic of this thread is the intolerance of the new testament biblical writings. It is a discussion, not a psychoanalysis of personal beliefs, although that can be fun and interesting.

Can you refute what the scriptures say in the original post or not? I doubt that you can in any sensical manner because those passages say what they say, and they are indeed quite intolerant. Perhaps that is why religious folk always come after the challenger rather than attempting to defend the manuscript that was challenged.

Question for debate: "Is Christianity truly a 'tolerant' religion, or is it just a toned down version of Islam?

For a thread that is supposedly about intolerance of the New Testament, it seems to be more about intolerance of anyone professing the Christian faith and offending as many of them as possible.

My point is that because most Christians I know are entirely decent and tolerant people I don't understand why you and others here feel the need and/or duty to constantly berate and belittle believers over the shortcomings of their chosen faith.

Apparently you are a non-believer of some sort or other, but by constantly harping on the negative aspects of religion in general and Christianity in particular, you and the others do a disservice to non-believers everywhere by perpetuating and reinforcing the (generally misguided) stereotype of an elitist, arrogant, disrespectful group who show no more tolerance and respect for opposing views than the even the most hard-core fundamentalists of the religions they mock.

It's not as if Christians have never heard about the darker portions of the scripture. It's not as if you've found something new. Many people I've discussed this sort of thing with accept that those portions are there, but choose to focus on the portions that they believe make them better persons, as in being of a generous and loving spirit; as well as the portions that can provide spiritual comfort in tough times. Is that so bad? In a sense, it's a form of limited atheism, not much different that someone choosing to live their life in a more generous and loving way, not out of a fear of Hell, but rather for a variety of other more-or-less altruistic reasons. IMHO, constantly harping on your favorite controversial portions of scripture does more harm than good overall.

For a thread that is supposedly about intolerance of the New Testament, it seems to be more about intolerance of anyone professing the Christian faith and offending as many of them as possible.

My point is that because most Christians I know are entirely decent and tolerant people I don't understand why you and others here feel the need and/or duty to constantly berate and belittle believers over the shortcomings of their chosen faith.

Apparently you are a non-believer of some sort or other, but by constantly harping on the negative aspects of religion in general and Christianity in particular, you and the others do a disservice to non-believers everywhere by perpetuating and reinforcing the (generally misguided) stereotype of an elitist, arrogant, disrespectful group who show no more tolerance and respect for opposing views than the even the most hard-core fundamentalists of the religions they mock.

It's not as if Christians have never heard about the darker portions of the scripture. It's not as if you've found something new. Many people I've discussed this sort of thing with accept that those portions are there, but choose to focus on the portions that they believe make them better persons, as in being of a generous and loving spirit; as well as the portions that can provide spiritual comfort in tough times. Is that so bad? In a sense, it's a form of limited atheism, not much different that someone choosing to live their life in a more generous and loving way, not out of a fear of Hell, but rather for a variety of other more-or-less altruistic reasons. IMHO, constantly harping on your favorite controversial portions of scripture does more harm than good overall.
Why is you and other "tolerant" believers cannot simply answer the question which is the topic of this thread?

Why is there such a chip on your and others shoulders that you have to claim persecution every time someone questions the texts of the bible that are clearly intolerant? From your post above:


I don't understand why you and others here feel the need and/or duty to constantly berate and belittle believers over the shortcomings of their chosen faith.

So what you are saying is that because I posted 156 verses straight from your new testament that clearly say what they say, you call that "belittling"? I did not write those verses. Why are you attempting to paint me as a villian instead of defending your own beliefs?

Once again, there are 156 bible verses posted above from the new testament. There are similar verses all through the koran. Why is it that Christians have chosen to ignore these intolerant and sometimes violent passages? Are these passages that Christians choose to ignore fictional? If these passages are fictional and not worthy of following to the letter, then what does that indicate about the remainder of the text?

Are these intolerant, and often violent passages really divinely inspired? If so, then why do Christians only pick and choose verses that they percieve as peaceful to follow? Could the bible simply be only philosophical fictions passed down from generation to generation?

Why is you and other "tolerant" believers cannot simply answer the question which is the topic of this thread?

Why is there such a chip on your and others shoulders that you have to claim persecution every time someone questions the texts of the bible that are clearly intolerant?

Allow me to clarify things. First, I could never be mistaken for a biblical scholar so without context, I will concede that those quote appear to be intolerant. Second, I don't consider myself a believer. I have no chip on my shoulder over your seeming disgust with religion in general and Christianity in particular. In fact I understand it very well.



So what you are saying is that because I posted 156 verses straight from your new testament that clearly say what they say, you call that "belittling"? I did not write those verses. Why are you attempting to paint me as a villian instead of defending your own beliefs?

No, you misunderstand. I wasn't simply referring to the quotes you posted, but rather your overall tone and history on the subject.



Once again, there are 156 bible verses posted above from the new testament. There are similar verses all through the koran. Why is it that Christians have chosen to ignore these intolerant and sometimes violent passages? Are these passages that Christians choose to ignore fictional? If these passages are fictional and not worthy of following to the letter, then what does that indicate about the remainder of the text?

Are these intolerant, and often violent passages really divinely inspired? If so, then why do Christians only pick and choose verses that they percieve as peaceful to follow? Could the bible simply be only philosophical fictions passed down from generation to generation?

I'm not sure you read my post or not, but within it I explained my thoughts about how many if not most Christians choose to focus only on the portions of scripture that they feel is the true message of the religion (extreme groups excluded of course - I am talking about the mainstream). I would imagine that this is true for the majority of Muslims as well.

Understand that I'm not arguing your points here. I'm simply pointing out that you seem to relish badgering what my experience tells me is a generally peaceful group solely on their choice of religion, which is the definition of intolerance. It's my opinion that you need to re-examine your actions if you wish to be the trumpeter of tolerance.
:tiphat:

Allow me to clarify things. First, I could never be mistaken for a biblical scholar so without context, I will concede that those quote appear to be intolerant. Second, I don't consider myself a believer. I have no chip on my shoulder over your seeming disgust with religion in general and Christianity in particular. In fact I understand it very well.

No disgust whatsoever. Simple curiosity.



No, you misunderstand. I wasn't simply referring to the quotes you posted, but rather your overall tone and history on the subject.

Tone? How does one determine "tone" from the written words of a poster? Religion fascinates me and I enjoy discussing it. People get touchy and easily offended when religion is questioned for some reason. My hope is that someday people will discuss it in a reasonable, logical, factual manner.


I'm not sure you read my post or not, but within it I explained my thoughts about how many if not most Christians choose to focus only on the portions of scripture that they feel is the true message of the religion (extreme groups excluded of course - I am talking about the mainstream). I would imagine that this is true for the majority of Muslims as well.

Read every word. The next logical question becomes, if one must cherry pick fragments of a religion to follow because to follow the remainder of the practices might result in prosecution within civilized societies criminal justice system, and violates the civil rights of others if it is practiced, is that religion essentially something that should be considered morally and fundamentally flawed and considered as philosophical fiction like mythology?


Understand that I'm not arguing your points here. I'm simply pointing out that you seem to relish badgering what my experience tells me is a generally peaceful group solely on their choice of religion, which is the definition of intolerance. It's my opinion that you need to re-examine your actions if you wish to be the trumpeter of tolerance.
:tiphat:

So again you return to attempting to accuse the questioner of "badgering" for no other reason than asking a question? You see, that is the primary problem with all religions is that attitude of "how DARE you question our faith!" Some Muslims would have no problem whatsoever executing someone like me for daring to question its tennants. This attitude that anyone who questions Christianity is somehow persecuting Christians or "badgering" them, stems from the same attitude as Islam; it's just toned down due to the evolving common sense of modern Christians. Why can't you guys get over that attitude and just talk about it wothout accusing people of some imagined form of religious persecution?

No disgust whatsoever. Simple curiosity.




Tone? How does one determine "tone" from the written words of a poster? Religion fascinates me and I enjoy discussing it. People get touchy and easily offended when religion is questioned for some reason. My hope is that someday people will discuss it in a reasonable, logical, factual manner.



Read every word. The next logical question becomes, if one must cherry pick fragments of a religion to follow because to follow the remainder of the practices might result in prosecution within civilized societies criminal justice system, and violates the civil rights of others if it is practiced, is that religion essentially something that should be considered morally and fundamentally flawed and considered as philosophical fiction like mythology?



So again you return to attempting to accuse the questioner of "badgering" for no other reason than asking a question? You see, that is the primary problem with all religions is that attitude of "how DARE you question our faith!" Some Muslims would have no problem whatsoever executing someone like me for daring to question its tennants. This attitude that anyone who questions Christianity is somehow persecuting Christians or "badgering" them, stems from the same attitude as Islam; it's just toned down due to the evolving common sense of modern Christians. Why can't you guys get over that attitude and just talk about it wothout accusing people of some imagined form of religious persecution?

You know good and well that religion is based more on emotions than intellect and yet you expect people to talk to you about it intellecually. Isn't that kind of farting in the wind. I think you just want to have "fun" at other peoples expense. I am an atheist/agnostic and find no fun in talking about others' religious beliefs. Granted, it was fun for a few decades but, alas, it is now boring. Someday it will be boring to you, too. You should at least study your motivations a bit closer.

If you are a true Christian, you will follow the example and teachings of Jesus. Jesus taught love, forgiveness, humbleness, doing into others as you would have them do to you and turning the other cheek.

Too many who call themselves Christians need to read what Jesus said and taught.

By the way, Jesus would probably be called a liberal socialist if he were with us today. I doubt very seriously if he would be called a capitalist and I am sure he would not buy into the theory that we gotta fight them there so we dont have to fight them here.

You know good and well that religion is based more on emotions than intellect and yet you expect people to talk to you about it intellecually. Isn't that kind of farting in the wind. I think you just want to have "fun" at other peoples expense. I am an atheist/agnostic and find no fun in talking about others' religious beliefs. Granted, it was fun for a few decades but, alas, it is now boring. Someday it will be boring to you, too. You should at least study your motivations a bit closer.

Come now, USG'60...Surely you do not mean to say that people who are Christians are not capable of logical and rational thought are you? That may have been the place from which YOU approached YOUR discussions, but it is not mine. I know better because I have had some excellent, well thought out, and CIVIL discussions with many Christians and it has been quite enjoyable. Your motivations were apparently quite different from mine.

I agree that religion is primarily emotion based, but it can and is discussed by many of its practicers in an unemotional manner. It is a lot more challenging to get into that unemotional place on an internet forum, but it can be done as long as folks are willing to discuss the issue and not auomatically assume that questioning = attacking.

If a belief/religion or political belief cant stand critical/exhaustive examination its not likely to survive in the real world.

If that is the test, there are plenty of religions that are doing swell.

No disgust whatsoever. Simple curiosity.

That's just the impression that I get. Of course you know your feelings better than anyone so I'll chalk it up to a simple internet forum misunderstanding then.



Tone? How does one determine "tone" from the written words of a poster?

It's a well-known concept. The lack of visual cues in a conversation can lead to misunderstanding of the intentions of the written word.
Tone And Communication - Essays - D111 (http://www.oppapers.com/essays/Tone-Communication/165560)



Religion fascinates me and I enjoy discussing it. People get touchy and easily offended when religion is questioned for some reason. My hope is that someday people will discuss it in a reasonable, logical, factual manner.

You are dealing with deeply held core-value beliefs so it's understandable that people easily take offense, especially in online communications where meanings are sometimes unclear.



Read every word. The next logical question becomes, if one must cherry pick fragments of a religion to follow because to follow the remainder of the practices might result in prosecution within civilized societies criminal justice system, and violates the civil rights of others if it is practiced, is that religion essentially something that should be considered morally and fundamentally flawed and considered as philosophical fiction like mythology?

Not necessarily. The portions being cherry-picked and practiced by the mainstream followers have evolved along along with society and mirror its accepted behavior. Of course there will always be the extreme fundamentalists, etc. that give the overall religion a bad name, but it's a mistake to focus only on the negative aspects without at least acknowledging the very large amount of good that organized religion offers.



So again you return to attempting to accuse the questioner of "badgering" for no other reason than asking a question? You see, that is the primary problem with all religions is that attitude of "how DARE you question our faith!" Some Muslims would have no problem whatsoever executing someone like me for daring to question its tennants. This attitude that anyone who questions Christianity is somehow persecuting Christians or "badgering" them, stems from the same attitude as Islam; it's just toned down due to the evolving common sense of modern Christians. Why can't you guys get over that attitude and just talk about it wothout accusing people of some imagined form of religious persecution?
Again, not being associated with Christianity I really have no dog (God) in the fight and your questioning causes me to feel no indignation any more than would you questioning Islam. However, I do feel that your manner of questioning is more one of seeking an argument rather than one of seeking understanding. If that is not your intention, then again I'll chalk it up to misunderstanding and apologize. If nothing else, perhaps my pointing it out will lead to better understanding between you and those you seek to discuss these matters with.

If you are a true Christian, you will follow the example and teachings of
Jesus. Jesus taught love, forgiveness, humbleness, doing into others as you
would have them do to you and turning the other cheek.

Too many who call themselves Christians need to read what Jesus said and
taught.
This is correct. I couldn't agree more.



By the way, Jesus would probably be called a liberal socialist if he were
with us today. I doubt very seriously if he would be called a capitalist and I
am sure he would not buy into the theory that we gotta fight them there
so we dont have to fight them here.
Where do you come up with this? A liberal socialist? If a man doesn't work
he doesn't eat. Pay them what they agreed to be paid. Don't commit
adultery or fornication and not to mention many, many moral teachings that
liberals would have a total fit over - we know that because they have a big
problem with them now. Also, he wouldn't change his teachings because
society changed. That's not very liberal or socialist.

Jesus didn't talk a lot about military action but did say that a ruler should
count the cost before going to battle. No mention, ever, about not going to
war if necessary. He certainly wasn't an isolationist, in that He preached in
many countries and commanded His word be taught all over the world. He
also fought with the pharisees and scribes where He was and He even
called them white washed sepulchers and vipers. Of course He knew their
hearts.

Why do you keep trying to call Jesus something he isn't? I suggest that
you do as you said in the first part of the post and start reading what
Jesus said.

Prune
You may want to invest in a few Bible tools.
A biblical atlas, a bible dictionary, a strongs accordance.

Jesus has been painted by many as a peacenik socialist. He wasn't. That is just projecting an ideology. The bible doesn't support it, either. He was a practicing jew, typical for the times. If you want a model for how he thought and behaved, there you go. Let's not make stuff up.

Prune
You may want to invest in a few Bible tools.
A biblical atlas, a bible dictionary, a strongs accordance.
Thanks for the information and I do have all of those in various genre. The
Strong's Concordance is a good Bible tool. Also my library has lexicons,
parsing guides and some books by Torrey, Trueblood, Spurgeon and the like.
I also studied Greek for a few years. That was very useful.

I don't care for the pop culture Christian books.

Jesus also paid his taxes!
Matthew 17:24-27

And that's not enough for you to consider Jesus a liberal?

And that's not enough for you to consider Jesus a liberal?

Liberals pay their taxes???? Not if you go by this particular WH cabinet choices.

Liberals pay their taxes???? Not if you go by this particular WH cabinet choices.

LOL, but then again, Turbo Tax wasn't invented back then. :LolLolLol