View Full Version : Cops Union or Someone Doing anti-MAPS Push Poll



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soonerguru
10-22-2009, 08:24 PM
I just got push-polled by an outfit called Opinion Research.

They asked multiple leading, extremely biased anti-MAPS questions that sound like they were written by our buddy Iron.

Are push polls legal in Oklahoma?

I am absolutely furious.

An example of a "question": Would you support this tax extension knowing that police and fire have to take a two percent budget cut?

Would you continue to support it knowing the council approved the ballot without any citizen input? etc. etc.

It's the first time I've ever been push polled.

Steve, you know what to do.

betts
10-22-2009, 08:50 PM
They've got money for that, it appears.

LakeEffect
10-22-2009, 09:17 PM
Every City dept. is taking the 2% cut... and Fire & Police, from what I've heard (haven't seen the memo myself), Fire & Police skipped out on the first budget cut earlier this Fiscal Year when every other Dept. had to comply. Push polls are very annoying.

kevinpate
10-22-2009, 09:25 PM
I don't agree with their tactics, but the 'vote no' folks do have every bit as much right to advance their agenda as the 'vote yes' folks do. Whether the nays can out advance the yeas, or even advance their position moderately well, is a separate question.

soonerguru
10-22-2009, 09:29 PM
Please be aware there's a phony poll that's really just smearing MAPS with citizens. I hope the MAPS 3 Yes crowd gets in gear soon. I'm not seeing much.

Midtowner
10-22-2009, 10:36 PM
That they're moving this early in the game just smacks of union tactics -- they want progress on a completely separate issue and this is how they're trying to do it. They're not serious about defeating MAPS, they just want to make their presence felt.

Of course hiring more union members is in the union's best interest. Now Couch is put into a fairly precarious position -- either give in (and no one will notice) or fight these guys.

If I was advising Couch, I'd tell him to go ahead and give in for now, and just as soon as the vote passed, pull the rug out from under the unions. Dirty tactics invite dirty responses.

andy157
10-23-2009, 01:36 AM
Please be aware there's a phony poll that's really just smearing MAPS with citizens. I hope the MAPS 3 Yes crowd gets in gear soon. I'm not seeing much.To see and learn more about MAPS is simple. All it takes is for you to make your reservation. Show up, pay your $39.00 to hear what the Mayor has to say. But you had better hurry. Reservations are limited.

andy157
10-23-2009, 01:48 AM
That they're moving this early in the game just smacks of union tactics -- they want progress on a completely separate issue and this is how they're trying to do it. They're not serious about defeating MAPS, they just want to make their presence felt.

Of course hiring more union members is in the union's best interest. Now Couch is put into a fairly precarious position -- either give in (and no one will notice) or fight these guys.

If I was advising Couch, I'd tell him to go ahead and give in for now, and just as soon as the vote passed, pull the rug out from under the unions. Dirty tactics invite dirty responses.Midtowner, if thats how you would handle things, well, do I have some good news for you. That very plan is already in place, with one exception. Giving in. Thats not part of the plan. Cutting positions and layoffs, not furloughs, thats the plan. If I were guessing I would look for 35 to 40 cuts. I wonder which Fire Stations will be closed down. Guess we'll see which Councilperson has got the biggest.

betts
10-23-2009, 04:49 AM
No denials that the unions are involved in this "poll"? Again, spend money to defeat the councilpeople who oppose what you want, don't spend money to oppose something completely unrelated. You hurt 1.3 million people, not just the 9 in your sights with those "tactics".

metro
10-23-2009, 07:36 AM
Please be aware there's a phony poll that's really just smearing MAPS with citizens. I hope the MAPS 3 Yes crowd gets in gear soon. I'm not seeing much.

As with most elections, it's too far out to waste money advertising, etc. Although I do agree there are more cheap things they could be doing. You should read the article in today's JR about this very thing. They are out there in full force, working overtime talking to neighborhood associations, rotary clubs, churches, all kinds of groups. I imagine about the middle of October we'll see the heavy promoting begin, it doesn't make political sense to waste so much money this early, it's not a presidential election. Historically votes like this have a low turnout, and most of the people who show are hardcore supporters, union activisits in retailiation, or anti-tax people. For the most part, these people would show up no matter what. The last minute voter is just that, decides on if and how they will vote at the last minute, and are usually persuaded one way or another by tv commercials. It's been proven many a time.

Wambo36
10-23-2009, 11:07 AM
That they're moving this early in the game just smacks of union tactics -- they want progress on a completely separate issue and this is how they're trying to do it. They're not serious about defeating MAPS, they just want to make their presence felt.

Of course hiring more union members is in the union's best interest. Now Couch is put into a fairly precarious position -- either give in (and no one will notice) or fight these guys.

If I was advising Couch, I'd tell him to go ahead and give in for now, and just as soon as the vote passed, pull the rug out from under the unions. Dirty tactics invite dirty responses.

Midtowner it sounds like you would fit into our city management very well. Employees of this city have been dealing with "dirty" tactics for years. Ask yourself, why the city is consistently losing arbitration cases against its employees? Could it be that when examined by an impartial 3rd party, the city has usually been found to be wrong on almost every occasion. I hate to break it to you but these cases cost money that the city could put to better use.
Andy is right that you are well behind Jim Couch on pulling dirty tricks. He's the master.

Doug Loudenback
10-23-2009, 11:16 AM
Hey, wait a minute ... what does "push-polled" mean ... new term to me. And what's a link? I'd like to look into it.

Hawk405359
10-23-2009, 11:50 AM
Hey, wait a minute ... what does "push-polled" mean ... new term to me. And what's a link? I'd like to look into it.

It'd be like asking "Do you still support your senator even knowing he wants to destroy business in the city?"

A push poll is a poll designed not to gather information, but to spread a particular ideology. They tend to use language that pushes their agenda, but masquerade as a poll. So, in short, it's a political ad disguised as a legitimate poll. It's illegal in one state, but not Oklahoma.

Doug Loudenback
10-23-2009, 11:54 AM
Thanks, Hawk. OK, I get it.

Now, does anyone have a link to this poll? I'd like a copy and to expose it in its entirety just for historical purposes.

jc4455
10-23-2009, 12:23 PM
So let me see if I've got this straight.

"Would you continue to support it knowing the council approved the ballot without any citizen input?" = evil, bad thing to say.

"Voting No hurts 1.3 million people." = good, righteous thing to say.

does that sum it up?

Midtowner
10-23-2009, 12:47 PM
So let me see if I've got this straight.

"Would you continue to support it knowing the council approved the ballot without any citizen input?" = evil, bad thing to say.

Also a false thing to say.

I guarantee you that at least one citizen had input on this thing. Not trying to be difficult or hyper-technical, but I'd wager that just about all the folks who worked on this proposal (excluding consultants from outside) were OKC citizens.

You might reword the poll to say "public input." But then again, these things generally aren't overly concerned with accuracy or truth or any of those silly antiquated concepts.

Wambo36
10-23-2009, 02:22 PM
Also a false thing to say.

I guarantee you that at least one citizen had input on this thing. Not trying to be difficult or hyper-technical, but I'd wager that just about all the folks who worked on this proposal (excluding consultants from outside) were OKC citizens.

You might reword the poll to say "public input." But then again, these things generally aren't overly concerned with accuracy or truth or any of those silly antiquated concepts.

Interesting that this statement rates being declared false and worthy of addressing, but the mayor going on TV to lie about the firefighters and why they aren't supporting MAPS hasn't aroused your hyper-technical or difficult side. hmmm

Midtowner
10-23-2009, 02:43 PM
Interesting that this statement rates being declared false and worthy of addressing, but the mayor going on TV to lie about the firefighters and why they aren't supporting MAPS hasn't aroused your hyper-technical or difficult side. hmmm

Ah, then, so for you and yours, if one side is being unethical, then you should be as well, hm? I expect better.

I expect better from the mayor as well.

What the hell happened to honor?

Doug Loudenback
10-23-2009, 02:47 PM
And what the hell happened to a link? I want to see this poll!

Midtowner
10-23-2009, 02:54 PM
Doug, push polls are conducted via telephone. They persuade by misdirecting their audiences.

Wambo36
10-23-2009, 03:28 PM
Ah, then, so for you and yours, if one side is being unethical, then you should be as well, hm? I expect better.

I expect better from the mayor as well.

What the hell happened to honor?

I just found it interesting that this is what bothered you when the mayor has pulled his act repeatedly without raising your ire. As far as your honor question, since I have no idea who is conducting the poll in question, I'll assume your not speaking to me or mine.

betts
10-23-2009, 03:38 PM
The mayor has been on television talking about the firefighters and why they aren't supporting MAPS? Link?

Wambo36
10-23-2009, 04:45 PM
The mayor has been on television talking about the firefighters and why they aren't supporting MAPS? Link?

Evening news, several times in the last 2 weeks. Sorry I don't have links. His standard line goes something like "The fire union is upset because they didn't get a raise this year so they are coming out against MAPS."

He knows the firefighters have tried to give back the raise that was awarded to them by an arbitrator. He knows they have offered it back in exchange for help with staffing and yet he goes on TV and chooses to lie. I wish I was suprised.

Hawk405359
10-23-2009, 07:19 PM
So let me see if I've got this straight.

"Would you continue to support it knowing the council approved the ballot without any citizen input?" = evil, bad thing to say.

"Voting No hurts 1.3 million people." = good, righteous thing to say.

does that sum it up?

Masquerading a political ad as a public opinion poll = bad thing, no matter the side.

Each side openly stating their opinions on the matter = good thing, no matter the side.

No more complicated than that.

soonerguru
10-23-2009, 08:54 PM
Thanks, Hawk. OK, I get it.

Now, does anyone have a link to this poll? I'd like a copy and to expose it in its entirety just for historical purposes.

Doug,

It's done by telephone. Have you ever been polled before? They call you on the phone. They don't leave lots of tracks.

It's about the moral equivalent of robocalling, except there's a human on the other end pretending to be a legit pollster.

"Doug, would you be inclined to vote for Candidate X if you knew that he beats his wife?"

That's essentially the way push polls are done. They're not as common in this market but have been happening for years elsewhere and do work. They're designed to operate like negative advertising, but in a disguised manner.

OKCRT
10-23-2009, 09:10 PM
Well I am sure that everyone needs and would like a raise. The fact is while firefighters have a tough job they also have a lot of free time. I see the local boys hanging out goofing off all the time,and I mean ALL the time. They also have plenty of time to have 2nd jobs and many of them do. Maps is not about fire & police this time around. This push polling might just backfire in their faces.

Midtowner
10-23-2009, 09:16 PM
Well I am sure that everyone needs and would like a raise. The fact is while firefighters have a tough job they also have a lot of free time. I see the local boys hanging out goofing off all the time,and I mean ALL the time. They also have plenty of time to have 2nd jobs and many of them do. Maps is not about fire & police this time around. This push polling might just backfire in their faces.

To be fair, the firefighters here, God bless 'em, have said over and over that this is about staffing, i.e., hiring more firefighters so that they can have complete crews -- not salaries. They even allegedly offered to give back their raises to get more men on the job.

I'll even go so far as to agree with them that they are being done wrong. That said, their issues have nada to do with MAPS III, at least to the extent that MAPS could fix anything. Their whole goal is to send a message to the city that they'll hold progress hostage until they get what they want. The city has apparently called their bluff and here we are.

Slivermoon
10-23-2009, 09:32 PM
I guess we'll see what happens when we get the chance to vote on their contract next February.

Wambo36
10-23-2009, 10:51 PM
To be fair, the firefighters here, God bless 'em, have said over and over that this is about staffing, i.e., hiring more firefighters so that they can have complete crews -- not salaries. They even allegedly offered to give back their raises to get more men on the job.

I'll even go so far as to agree with them that they are being done wrong. That said, their issues have nada to do with MAPS III, at least to the extent that MAPS could fix anything. Their whole goal is to send a message to the city that they'll hold progress hostage until they get what they want. The city has apparently called their bluff and here we are.

"Allegedly offered to give back their raises to get more men on the job."? Firefighters union President Phil Sipes stood in front of the council and made the offer. I don't know why it's "allegedly". Watch the replays of the council meetings. See, this is what the mayor counts on every time he spouts his lie about this being about raises. Someone might just buy it.

Larry OKC
10-24-2009, 03:01 AM
... But then again, these things generally aren't overly concerned with accuracy or truth or any of those silly antiquated concepts.

Like the Mayor and the Chamber are??? ROFLMAO

andy157
10-24-2009, 04:16 AM
Like the Mayor and the Chamber are??? ROFLMAOWhen you get right down to it. The C of C is really the same as a Union. Should be named the Union of Commerce. It supports its members, and lobbies for their issues, and, you can't be a member unless you join and pay dues. Here is what you will find if you do a side by side comparison between the Union of Commerce and the Police and Firefighters Unions.

Union of Commerce- No join, no become a member, no pay dues, no support, no benefits.

P & F Unions- No join, no become a member, no pay dues, Union forced to support you nevertheless, you have and receive the same benefits as do the dues paying members.

Midtowner
10-24-2009, 06:54 AM
I guess it's a decent comparison. The only difference is that the Chamber is lobbying for MAPS because they want MAPS. You're lobbying against it for reasons completely unrelated to MAPS. You're rightfully pissed about irrelevant stuff, at least insofar as the MAPS vote is concerned and THAT is not constructive. In fact, if MAPS does not pass, you'll almost definitely end up with a smaller budget 10 years from now compared with if MAPS did pass.

Your position makes no sense Andy. It's not logical.... and now this? Hiring telemarketers to lie to citizens? Classy.

betts
10-24-2009, 10:15 AM
I would have to argue that the Chamber promotes the city as well as their members, and that sometimes benefits the city as a whole. Unions are designed for their members, and while it is true that nonmembers (if you've got an open shop only) also receive the benefits of their labors, it is a far less inclusive benefit than the city-wide benefit of having a Chamber. It really doesn't help me if the union gets time and a half for overtime for their members, and I'm paying for that as surely as I'm paying for MAPS.

jbrown84
10-24-2009, 05:17 PM
Hiring telemarketers to lie to citizens? Classy.

Well said. This is shady, shady, shady. Maybe it's time for some grassroots pro-MAPS promotion, since the city seems to be assuming they don't need to worry about this. Foolish.

kevinpate
10-24-2009, 08:54 PM
There is a part of me that wonders if the city isn't actually counting on pro-MAPs grassroots kicking in. Better to have neighbor to neighbor saying it'll be ok, than to only have politicos saying 'oh, c'mon, give us your ok to collect 3/4 of a billion, yeah, with a b, with only your faith in a non binding pledge that we'll do later what we're saying we'll do.'

If it works for the voters, it does, but I'm a tad surprised that absence of assurance isn't already the central theme of every last opposition person out there.

Shoot, I can't even vote and it concerns me a tad.

iron76hd
10-24-2009, 10:34 PM
Your position makes no sense Andy. It's not logical....


and now this? Hiring telemarketers to lie to citizens? Classy.

Who lied to the citizens? Let me know how that has happened?

It's makes sense to me Andy. I don't know how to explain the position of "not supporting MAPS3" any better. Midtowner just doesn't agree with standing up as a group for what you believe in. We believe in good conscience we can't support maps knowing that citizens are getting short changed when it comes to city services. ...These services will be even more stretched if we build the MAPS3 stuff.

Citizens will not benefit from MAPS3 as far as city services are concerned...they will suffer even more...

AGREE OR NOT...that's why...there will be no MAPS3...

Citizens won't vote for it for several reasons...

the vague language..(they did that on purpose)
City Services issues (that will be raised):congrats:
Some just don't like taxes....
Some know that it won't benefit their particular side of town....

....I don't believe in flat out lying.....even though the MAYOR has already....he's been vague and will continue to do so....because he know's what he's doing is dishonest ....not giving the citizens the entire picture is the ONLY way he'll win....

Now he's made it the duty of City Workers to get the truths out there and they won't favor him....and his management of the city...

SOO..lets see what happens...:fighting4 I have faith in the CITIZENS....

iron76hd
10-24-2009, 10:57 PM
just like this thread...

"Cops Union" Who is doing the Poll?

You don't know but you start a thread throwing up that it's more likely than not ...it's the "COPS UNION"

Could it be fire? could it be city services? could it be a mad citizen with a little money?

Could it be one several local politician's that's coming out publicly against MAPS3 in a few short weeks???

No one knows..but "cops union" is at the top...LOL

Patrick
10-25-2009, 06:08 AM
I guess we'll see what happens when we get the chance to vote on their contract next February.

Vote NO! I couldn't possibly vote for a new contract to fund their presence, knowing we have huge needs funding improvements in our roads and bridges. lol!

Patrick
10-25-2009, 06:17 AM
...These services will be even more stretched if we build the MAPS3 stuff.

Citizens will not benefit from MAPS3 as far as city services are concerned...they will suffer even more...

AGREE OR NOT...that's why...there will be no MAPS3...

As Midtowner said, the services will shrink if we don't build MAPS 3 stuff because sale tax revenue will surely decrease with fewer tourists coming to events at the convention center and fairgrounds.




Citizens won't vote for it for several reasons...

the vague language..(they did that on purpose)

That wasn't their intent. Only because of the way state law is worded on how projects can be put on the ballot.


City Services issues (that will be raised):congrats:

Raised by you to further your agenda.


Some just don't like taxes....

That will always be the case. Shannon is in this camp. He's not for MAPS 3, and he surely won't be for tax increases to fund your cause.


Some know that it won't benefit their particular side of town...

MAPS 3 benefits all of OKC.


....I don't believe in flat out lying.....even though the MAYOR has already....he's been vague and will continue to do so....because he know's what he's doing is dishonest ....not giving the citizens the entire picture is the ONLY way he'll win....

To say that somehow voting for MAPS 3 will lead to further problems in city services is flat out lying. The two aren't even related.


Now he's made it the duty of City Workers to get the truths out there and they won't favor him....and his management of the city...

City workers appear to be doing whatever it takes to further their own agenda.


SOO..lets see what happens...:fighting4 I have faith in the CITIZENS....

I have faith that the citizens won't buy into the scare tactics and lies of the unions.

Patrick
10-25-2009, 06:19 AM
Could it be fire? could it be city services? could it be a mad citizen with a little money?

Could it be one several local politician's that's coming out publicly against MAPS3 in a few short weeks???

No one knows..but "cops union" is at the top...LOL

That's only because cops and fire unions have been the most vocal opposition to MAPS 3 and have the most money to oppose it, so it's easy to put the blame on them.

iron76hd
10-25-2009, 07:49 PM
yes.."further our agenda"...:woowoo:

It's not going to pass Patrick...but i'm sure you'll live..

jbrown84
10-25-2009, 08:18 PM
It's not going to pass Patrick...but i'm sure you'll live..

http://14.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kp60ouYTwb1qzkbrlo1_400.jpg

A crystal ball??? WHERE'D YOU GET THAT????

Hawk405359
10-25-2009, 08:30 PM
That's only because cops and fire unions have been the most vocal opposition to MAPS 3 and have the most money to oppose it, so it's easy to put the blame on them.

Everyone furthers their own agendas. I don't blame police if they're doing such. I simply think whoever is doing it that the methods should be out in the open and not an attempt to deceive. If you want to call out city hall for lying, it's easy enough to do it in the open, you don't need push polls to do it.

If it were the other way, with the polls telling people to vote for Maps, I'm betting jc and Wambo would be quick to call foul on it.

Wambo36
10-25-2009, 11:41 PM
Everyone furthers their own agendas. I don't blame police if they're doing such. I simply think whoever is doing it that the methods should be out in the open and not an attempt to deceive. If you want to call out city hall for lying, it's easy enough to do it in the open, you don't need push polls to do it.

If it were the other way, with the polls telling people to vote for Maps, I'm betting jc and Wambo would be quick to call foul on it.

I hate to tell you this Hawk but I learned a long time ago that crying foul on these type of things usually falls on deaf ears. I still don't know if the FOP is behind the poll but find it humorous that, with all the possibilities, they are taking the blame. With absolutely no proof they are taking the blame. I say this knowing full well that it might be them, but noboby has shown any proof.

Does the poll bother me? No more than the fact that the president of the CC and the man leading the charge for MAPS 3 has the largest bully pulpit in the state. Still haven't seen any objective or critical reporting on the subject in his newspaper. Even the proponents of MAPS 3 on this board have found things to be critical of, but not the paper. I find that type of control to be just as alarming as a poll.

As for Patricks assumption that police and fire have the most money to spend in opposition to this, I hope he's wrong. The massive amount they have to spend will probably be a single digit percentage of what the city and CC are spending to get it passed.

Chance23
10-26-2009, 07:21 AM
People blame the police because this is par the course for police action. Police are used to being the bully's and don't like when others call them out on it, they're the most likely ones to try to trick people into following them.

jbrown84
10-26-2009, 12:53 PM
the president of the CC and the man leading the charge for MAPS 3 has the largest bully pulpit in the state.

Bully pulpit?? They've had like 3 articles on MAPS in the last 3 months--all pretty straight forward. Indeed they have ignored the issues involving the opponents, but they also haven't been trumpeting it nearly as much as they could. Perhaps Thompson has told his editors to report nothing but the basic facts, i.e. the city council voting to approve, a list of the projects, etc.

Also, I'm pretty sure they were the first to report the way the ballot was set up and in no way glossed over the fact that it was "vaguely worded".

proud2Bsooner
10-26-2009, 02:55 PM
The cops and firemen unions, and people like iron, are doing themselves more harm than good by opening their big mouths.

Midtowner
10-26-2009, 03:17 PM
Bully pulpit?? They've had like 3 articles on MAPS in the last 3 months--all pretty straight forward. Indeed they have ignored the issues involving the opponents, but they also haven't been trumpeting it nearly as much as they could. Perhaps Thompson has told his editors to report nothing but the basic facts, i.e. the city council voting to approve, a list of the projects, etc.

Also, I'm pretty sure they were the first to report the way the ballot was set up and in no way glossed over the fact that it was "vaguely worded".

Or maybe since the Police and Fire Unions' issues really have nothing to do with MAPS and are more related to manpower disputes, the two separate issues don't merit mentioning simultaneously? And since these unrelated issues are the root cause of the Unions' misgivings, there's really no cogent story to be told?

andy157
10-27-2009, 05:19 PM
I guess we'll see what happens when we get the chance to vote on their contract next February.You probably won't be voting on the contract in February, unless of course the Courts put a rush on the ballot dispute that will have to be settled prior to a vote.

flintysooner
10-27-2009, 05:36 PM
When I read the article I wondered what would happen if the vote was against the union contract.

Even worse is the scenario of firefighters simply refusing to work without a contract and someone suffering loss of property or injury.

OKCRT
10-27-2009, 06:43 PM
There are plenty of people waiting to take their jobs.

Bring back the bucket brigade!

iron76hd
10-29-2009, 10:24 AM
PUSH POLLING IS BEING DONE BY SOMEONE IN THE CHAMBER!!!!!!!!

Wow...now the truth...

betts
10-29-2009, 11:10 AM
PUSH POLLING IS BEING DONE BY SOMEONE IN THE CHAMBER!!!!!!!!

Wow...now the truth...

Link? Or something more than rumor? Seems hard to believe considering the questions being asked.

Blazerfan11
10-29-2009, 11:12 AM
They should ask "Would you support MAPS3 if the KKK did since the program does nothing for the mostly black east side?"

That'd be a good question!

OSUFan
10-29-2009, 11:16 AM
PUSH POLLING IS BEING DONE BY SOMEONE IN THE CHAMBER!!!!!!!!

Wow...now the truth...

I have no idea if there is push polling going on but if your reffering to what Mark Shannon has on his site it looks like regular polling to me. There is a difference between polling and push polling.

FritterGirl
10-29-2009, 02:11 PM
PUSH POLLING IS BEING DONE BY SOMEONE IN THE CHAMBER!!!!!!!!

Wow...now the truth...

Not the truth. I know for a FACT the Chamber is not behind this.

Not only was I a recipient of said poll, but when I started hearing some of the questions being asked, I asked the pollster to dictate to me some of the exact questions. They were then forwarded to folks at the Chamber who are involved in putting the campaign together.

I can tell you unequivocally that this particular poll is NOT being put on by the Chamber, and if you knew the questions, you'd see how obvious that was.

The questions were worded in such a way as to create "answers" that are biased and can than be used against the MAPS YES! campaign.

Mikemarsh51
10-29-2009, 03:30 PM
Flintysooner, first Firefighters are prohibited to strike by federal law, secondly if you had a chance to vote on anything it would the choice between the cities or the IAFF's last best offer. Since the cities last best offer was thrown out by the arbitraitor for being illegal what would you vote for. The ruling by the arbitraitor ruled the city had the money and awarded a 1.4 % raise. We offered the council the raise in exchange for more bodies. There response was well see you in court.

Mikemarsh51
10-29-2009, 03:38 PM
Proud2Bsooner- nice comment, good job of promoting free speech!!!

Mikemarsh51
10-29-2009, 03:45 PM
Patrick- I think you forget history. In 2007 when we and I mean we passed the 857 million dollar bond issue it was done on the backs of Police and Fire. The commercials showed lots of fire trucks and police cars even though we got the smallest amount of funding. The funding for Fire was 27 million. The commercials said we all supported it which we did. To counter your negative comment inferring we are hogging the money, streets and bridges got over 500 million. Try harder!

Mikemarsh51
10-29-2009, 03:56 PM
OKCRT- tell me what you expect. I go to work for 24 hour shifts. Do you want me working on something for 24 hours straight? I hate to burst your bubble, we are required to exercise 1.5 hours per shift, encouraged to play volleyball. It burns up stress and builds unity. This one will kill you, the Chaplain recommends a nap during the day, it refreshes and recharges people. If your going to expect 24 solid hours of productivity you need to know we only get paid for 16 hours of work per shift.