Looking at several ideas that are in place across the world, several systems jump out that would work nicely in the metro area. My personal favorite is the Guided Busway System. The nice thing about these systems is that you could build on the existing bus network.

http://www.britpave-bus-rail.org.uk/assets/IMG_6376.JPG

Here is a bit more information:

FAQ Guided Busway - Britpave (http://www.britpave-bus-rail.org.uk/busway/faq-busway.html)

Guided bus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guided_bus)

-Chris-

I am impressed with how truly advance mass transit systems and formulas there is.
I wished we were that advance in the USA.

kd, have you ever heard of or checked out www.mtpokc.com

kd, have you ever heard of or checked out Welcome | Modern Transit Project in Oklahoma City (http://www.mtpokc.com)


the site shows....
wifi enabled lights for the buses. does that mean the buses will be able to control the lights on their routes? what it sounds like to me.

yes, fromdust

Actually I have been there and 'thought' that I had read everything, but I kinda figured that Metro was hinting toward something that I had missed, and I was correct. I came across the mention of a report called The Fixed Guideways Study and did some looking. I must say....very inpressive reading. Some of the most forward thinking I have seen to this point on OKC Metro Trans. Here is the link:

Programs and Services > Transportation and Data Services > Fixed Guideway Systems (http://www.acogok.org/programs_and_services/transportation_and_data_services/fixedguideway.asp)

Take some time and explore the entire website. This is the first that I have heard of this organization (ACOG...Association of Central Oklahoma Governments) and I must say that I like the way that they think.

-Chris-

Actually I have been there and 'thought' that I had read everything, but I kinda figured that Metro was hinting toward something that I had missed, and I was correct. I came across the mention of a report called The Fixed Guideways Study and did some looking. I must say....very inpressive reading. Some of the most forward thinking I have seen to this point on OKC Metro Trans. Here is the link:

Programs and Services > Transportation and Data Services > Fixed Guideway Systems (http://www.acogok.org/programs_and_services/transportation_and_data_services/fixedguideway.asp)

Take some time and explore the entire website. This is the first that I have heard of this organization (ACOG...Association of Central Oklahoma Governments) and I must say that I like the way that they think.

-Chris-

Just curious - how long have you been in Oklahoma City and been interested in these issues?

the site shows....
wifi enabled lights for the buses. does that mean the buses will be able to control the lights on their routes? what it sounds like to me.

yes

wait a minute. The planning is going to permit some bus driver who is behind schedule to make up time by flipping normally timed lights to green on his route?

And this is a good idea why?

wait a minute. The planning is going to permit some bus driver who is behind schedule to make up time by flipping normally timed lights to green on his route?

And this is a good idea why?

...and how many people will tailgate the bus knowing they will make all of the lights.

Not very many because the second it gets passed that light it'll stop at a bus stop. Have you ever driven behind a bus? I don't care if they do control the lights, they are so annoying to be behind.

Not very many because the second it gets passed that light it'll stop at a bus stop. Have you ever driven behind a bus? I don't care if they do control the lights, they are so annoying to be behind.

LOL - it will only stop at a bus stop if someone wants to get on or off. With that in mind, they could save a fortune by taking the brakes off the bus. No riders and no stop lights. Every bus route would be an express.

But I joke.

What I would like to see in a bus system is for them to go to a hub and spoke system will local feeder routes that roam areas near hub stations. For that matter, you could even call a bus to your house. Here is how the bus system could work.

The main transit station would be downtown with other hubs located at Quail Spings Mall, Penn Square Mall, OKC Community College, Crossroads Mall, Tinker Air Force Base. Small feeder buses, say 10 passenger size, would collect passengers from neighborhoods around the satallite hubs. The satallite hubs would then have express service to downtown plus a loop route that connected all the remote hubs with travel both clockwise and counter-clockwise.

If you are on South May and want to go to Quail Springs you get in your car and drive to OKC Community College, or hop on a local collector bus. Then you can either take an express downtown and transfer to the Quail Springs express or take a clockwise trip around the city (Penn Square then to Quail Springs). If Quail Springs isn't your final destination then transfer to a local collector bus up there.

We don't need local collectors around downtown because a rail system will be in place for that. As rail is expanded we can replace existing bus routes with rail and then redeploy the bus equipment to other parts of town.

WiFi enabled busses, BRT and other forms of mass transit is commonplace. Especially if there are dedicated lanes for mass transit or HOV. Yes the buses could be able to change the lights, not the traffic grid itself though. These are highly specialized systems that have been proven in numeruos other cities around the world. Furthermore, the wifi allows it to communicate real time information to bus stops and on the internet, so they know EXACTLY when the next bus will arrive, etc. and they can plan their trips accordingly. This is a good thing folks. Besides, even if/when MAPS 3 passes, we're talking YEARS before this is implemented in OKC, perhaps 10 or more. By then, technology will have rapidly and exponentially improved by then.

Just curious - how long have you been in Oklahoma City and been interested in these issues?

Since 1998. Now, I must admit that I am curious just where you are going with this.

-Chris-

Since 1998. Now, I must admit that I am curious just where you are going with this.

-Chris-

Well clearly you haven't been here long enough to add to the discussion.


:sofa:

WiFi enabled busses, BRT and other forms of mass transit is commonplace. Especially if there are dedicated lanes for mass transit or HOV. Yes the buses could be able to change the lights, not the traffic grid itself though. These are highly specialized systems that have been proven in numeruos other cities around the world. Furthermore, the wifi allows it to communicate real time information to bus stops and on the internet, so they know EXACTLY when the next bus will arrive, etc. and they can plan their trips accordingly. This is a good thing folks. Besides, even if/when MAPS 3 passes, we're talking YEARS before this is implemented in OKC, perhaps 10 or more. By then, technology will have rapidly and exponentially improved by then.


Thanks Metro for answering that faster then me..lol

the site shows....
wifi enabled lights for the buses.

am I the only one that thinks this sounds like a really bad idea?

am I the only one that thinks this sounds like a really bad idea?

Yep.

Yep.

<shrug> ok then...

am I the only one that thinks this sounds like a really bad idea?

Why? The system is pretty standard, it allows information about the bus rout to be transmitted to bus stops so they know exactly how long until the bus arrives, unlike the current system where people wait a half hour for nothing with no idea where a bus is going if one were to come.

I'm actually very happy you brought up the guided bus-ways. I remember an article I read, maybe 4 years ago, about a Dutch (I think) company working on aerodynamic electric buses that could run on magnetically guided dedicated bus lanes at very high speeds but be able to break from these guides at predetermined points to serve specific non guided city streets. I haven't heard anything about it since, but I have been dying to know if any such prototype or even a test system was ever developed. I've always thought dedicated high speed bus lanes would be a nice fit in the city. I know that concept is included in the study and I hope it gets done!

Why? The system is pretty standard, it allows information about the bus rout to be transmitted to bus stops so they know exactly how long until the bus arrives, unlike the current system where people wait a half hour for nothing with no idea where a bus is going if one were to come.

"Buses will arrive on time with greater frequency and arrive at their destinations faster through the use of new WIFI enabled traffic light signal controls." ≠ wifi-enabled buses..

and while wifi-enabled buses are pretty standard now throughout the world, a quick google search shows these things getting hacked all the time. Most of the transit authority sites also have a "standard" terms of use disclaimer(for those that allow passengers to piggyback on the wifi router) stating that they are not responsible for data interception when security breaches occur.

"Buses will arrive on time with greater frequency and arrive at their destinations faster through the use of new WIFI enabled traffic light signal controls." ≠ wifi-enabled buses..

and while wifi-enabled buses are pretty standard now throughout the world, a quick google search shows these things getting hacked all the time. Most of the transit authority sites also have a "standard" terms of use disclaimer(for those that allow passengers to piggyback on the wifi router) stating that they are not responsible for data interception when security breaches occur.

Even if all it means is that it will offer wi-fi to riders, I'm still not seeing what's such a massively bad idea about it. Several years down the line when this thing would be implemented, we don't know what the security features will be or what will be offered on the buses.

Fuzzy
I dont think a wifi bus will SUDDENLY change traffic lights, i think it only modifies the amount of time it sits on green or red.
As for passengers piggybacking on it, it can only be done with capacity, an open network, or someone who was deviously talented to do so.
sometimes its ok to move forward

Fuzzy
I dont think a wifi bus will SUDDENLY change traffic lights, i think it only modifies the amount of time it sits on green or red.
As for passengers piggybacking on it, it can only be done with capacity, an open network, or someone who was deviously talented to do so.
sometimes its ok to move forward

I don't think it will SUDDENLY change the lights either.. I see it as more of a system like the infrared one currently used by emergency vehicles.

I brought up the piggy backing thing for wifi-enabled buses because *that* is what is currently standardized and in wide-use across the world.. many transit authorities allow passengers to use the network, but with a ton of disclaimers since they get hacked so often.

I see nothing on Welcome | Modern Transit Project in Oklahoma City (http://www.mtpokc.com/) that says we'll be moving to the currently implemented wifi-enabled buses, just that the lights can be controlled via wifi.

Which I think is a bad idea, considering how easy it is to intercept, crack and manipulate wifi. Especially when any script-kiddie can just sit down near a traffic light and collect packets all day long..

oh i know its fun to see how many networks are unprotected.
But wifi for the lights and the wifi for passengers are likely going to be separately managed ie channels

oh i know its fun to see how many networks are unprotected.
But wifi for the lights and the wifi for passengers are likely going to be separately managed ie channels

*sigh*

I'm sure they will be, IF that's what we're getting.. like I said before, there's nothing on the mtpokc website that says we'll be getting wifi-enabled buses in the definition that is used worldwide..

we'll be getting lights that are controlled via wifi.

It doesn't make a difference if they're on different channels, routers or even networks. If the item is wifi-enabled and it is stationary and it is on 24/7, someone is going to hack it, just to be able to say they did it.

It makes more sense for buses to use the already implemented infrared system.

If they're going to put wifi on buses to show passengers schedule times and route information, Great! but that's not what it says on mtpokc.

I don't think it will SUDDENLY change the lights either.. I see it as more of a system like the infrared one currently used by emergency vehicles.

I brought up the piggy backing thing for wifi-enabled buses because *that* is what is currently standardized and in wide-use across the world.. many transit authorities allow passengers to use the network, but with a ton of disclaimers since they get hacked so often.

I see nothing on Welcome | Modern Transit Project in Oklahoma City (http://www.mtpokc.com/) that says we'll be moving to the currently implemented wifi-enabled buses, just that the lights can be controlled via wifi.

Which I think is a bad idea, considering how easy it is to intercept, crack and manipulate wifi. Especially when any script-kiddie can just sit down near a traffic light and collect packets all day long..

How long before you can buy a light changing gadget on Ebay?

What a goober..

I worry about how much a system like this will be used. Even if the bus can control lights, it would probably not be any faster than driving. Why would anyone ride the bus if they don't save time and could drive themselves? Unless they were "green" minded of course.

For some like the elderly or the handicap,and those who want to be as independent as possible or even the low income its their only choice.
Taxis are slow in arriving, and of course you have cabbies who think they can pad the fares.
Then theres the "greens."

Fair enough, but that hardly makes it mass transit, it still remains public transit. OKC needs a system many people will use if it is to be a success.

Think about a system that would allow people to get from Edmond to Bricktown in 10 minutes, not have to pay for parking and enjoy a couple of beers at a Thunder game without having to worry about driving drunk. Sounds like a good situation to me.

Even if there is a bus system in place would people going to a thunder game from Edmond want to ride on it?

then what you need to do is think about this..
population density
expanded hours,
increasing the cost of parking Downtown/ Bricktown.
Rising gas prices
Increasing fuel taxes
One of my main concerns about light rail and Street cars is population density for the area use to be really for the MASSES.
You can always restrict private vehicles Downtown.
To encourage the use of the Transit System.

I have always thought that a mass transit system in OKC would revolve around key locations or "hotspots" and linking them to park and ride type stations.

For example a station in a central part of edmond (or norman etc.) that has enough parking to accommodate commuters who drive to the station, park, and then ride a quick train into several locations within OKC. (i.e. Bricktown and the adventure district)

While this hardly qualifies as comprehensive, it could seriously reduce commuting traffic and even make it easier for metro residents to get to OU games, the airport, or bricktown for a night out.

I have a few friends in Norman, and Edmond who wants service like that,linked to OKC.
I'm ok with that as long as those cities being linked will contributed to construction and maintaining it.