I feel that first of all, the light rail idea is a waste of money - spending $$ on metro transit buses would provide a similar level of benefit, without such a grandiose cost.

And the tax isn't "just a penny". It is 1% of everything that is purchased, even cell phone service is subject to this tax. Adding it up, it costs much more than "just a penny"... Besides, why not give taxpayers and the economy a break, and drop down to a 7.375% for a while.

Funding for the jail may still resurface - if maps passes, this could potentially push the sales tax rate to near 9%! Might be prudent to get that gorilla resolved first, before such frivolous projects are addressed.


Wow. Indeed how to you reason with such a person.

First off NERMEL, there isn't light rail proposed in MAPS 3. You might want to actually read the proposal in detail before you comment or make your decision. Heck, I even dare you to go to an MTP meeting or a MAPS 3 meeting and ask questions to learn.

A downtown streetcar (that should also service the St. Anthony's/Midtown area as well as the Health Sciences Center and probably State Capitol will be included) IS proposed and these have proven very successful in every city in the U.S. that has put one in. Secondly, it WILL BE the largest and cleanest streetcar system in the U.S. and at a very cheap cost compared to most. It will be powered by OG&E windpower (again supporting our local economy and employers, instead of oversees oil). Natural Gas buses (that will help support our major employers Chesapeake and Devon) by purchasing their natural gas, will also be a major consideration and will be either integrated into the overhaul of mass transit up front, or definitely as soon as the funds are available. Keep in mind this IS A START, NOT THE END ALL BE ALL. If we don't overhaul our mass transit problem now, frankly, we'll probably never have a mass transit system of any worth. If you haven't realized it COPTA/Metro Transit are a joke, the council has realized it and they will probably be overhauled and new transit authority established if this measure passes. You concede we have problem with our bus system, are you for keeping what we have with the current incompetent organization that runs it? Or are you opposed to having mass transit in general?

MAPS on cell phone service? Not sure about that, but I'd sure like to see proof to back up your bold claim on that. Either way, heaven forbid we all pay $20 a year or less to create a better quality of life in our city. I shutter to think we would actually admit that we're a major metropolitan area and the thought that we might offer comparable amenties and services to other metropolitan areas smaller than us might hurt us.

Jail, again this is a COUNTY issue, NOT a city issue. If you want a resolution to the jail, contact your County representatives. Worst comes to worst, who cares if our sales tax is 9%. That's still much lower than many major metro's in this country. People need to realize we're not getting ahead, we're playing catchup. There are basic quality of life issues this city is LONGGGGGG overdue for and we need to step up and own our civic duty as a city.

Nermel, you are entitled to your own opinion, however, Metro makes some good points! Why not be "proactive" instead of "reactive"? Get educated on the issues of MAPS3 instead of forming your own opinion without first seeing all sides to the issue at hand. Change can be a scary thing, but in life, that is part of progressing as not only a individual but changing your city for the better. Besides, I believe the young forward thinking young people of OKC want a better future for their city and they are tired of playing second fiddle to cities in the region.

First off NERMEL, there isn't light rail proposed in MAPS 3. You might want to actually read the proposal in detail before you comment or make your decision. Heck, I even dare you to go to an MTP meeting or a MAPS 3 meeting and ask questions to learn.


Maybe I just don't know the mass transit terminology sufficiently enough, but the streetcar will be on rails, so does that not make it light rail? Or is light rail only in reference to trains?

Streetcars – light-rail, what’s the difference? Rail For The Valley (http://railforthevalley.wordpress.com/2008/12/22/streetcars-light-rail-whats-the-difference/)

Read mugsofbeers' comment...i was quoting him.

Wasn't my statement. You seem to have misquoted me.

Bunty, MOST people DO know better how to spend a penny than the government. Thats proven a million times over.

However, there are times, such as with MAPS that government has to be the entity to cause change. Government has to be the entity to condemn the land through "eminent domain" and to clear the large scale of land. Government has to be the entity to build parks - private business doesn't build parks. C2S is a public project that will ultimately involve private business but the foundation must be laid by the government and the foundation must provide an attractive base for private enterprise to then take over when the critical mass has been reached such as it has been in Bricktown. Its not a conservative/liberal thing this time.



Mugs...^^^^

"government has to be the entity to cause change"

hmmm a activist type government??!
less smokers, less obesity, healthier citizens,...maybe even a greener citizen??
just saying sometimes not all government "interference" is not a good thing

I appreciate Nermel's comments. At least he will actually state why he's opposed.

I will respond to a few of the comments.

If we go back to 7.375% we'll have one of the lowest sales taxes in the nation. Most cities have sales taxes between 8-9%. But, at what cost? The cost of having such a low tax will be for us to fall behind in becoming a progressive city. The area in the Core to Shore area will remain blighted. Like betts said, drive through that area and it will give you a different opinion. MAPS 3 will drastically change that area for the better and improve quality of life in our city.

In regards to the fairgrounds improvements, much of the hotel/motel tax will be used for continued improvements to the horse facilities. So, it would take many many years to be able to build the expo center. Including it in MAPS 3 will allow us to build the Expo Center now, instead of 20-30 years from now. Most of the exhibit buildings at the fairgrounds drastically need to be replaced.

The transit improvements will include a streetcar which can be expanded to the burbs, as well as improvements to our bus system.

Funding the jail is another issue, but I'm not so sure it's a popular ballot issue right now.

Patrick, you have a point about Nermel, but some of his basis for reasons aren't exactly true. Do you feel citizens and the City should not educate those who have misconceptions about MAPS 3 and are basing their opinions on misconceptions? Frankly, I feel they should have the correct facts before making a strong statement about opposing it. Can one honestly believe (and back up) that our City government is out to harm us and not trying to work towards a prosperous future? I mean, this isn't the federal government folks, and our local government has an excellent track record when it comes to this type of stuff. And again, the County Jail is a COUNTY issue, not City.

Sales Tax rates:

Chicago: 10.25%
NYC: 8.375%
San Francisco: 9.5%
Dallas: 8.25%
San Antonio: 8.13%
Austin: 8.25%
LA: 9.75%
Seattle: 9.5%

Sorry folks but 8.375% is reasonable for a major metropolitan area, especially one playing catchup to offer amenties and services that are long overdue.

Patrick, you have a point about Nermel, but some of his basis for reasons aren't exactly true. Do you feel citizens and the City should not educate those who have misconceptions about MAPS 3 and are basing their opinions on misconceptions? Frankly, I feel they should have the correct facts before making a strong statement about opposing it. Can one honestly believe (and back up) that our City government is out to harm us and not trying to work towards a prosperous future? I mean, this isn't the federal government folks, and our local government has an excellent track record when it comes to this type of stuff. And again, the County Jail is a COUNTY issue, not City.

I think those in the "know" or "educated" about this or any other issue, should approach those who arent in the "know" or "uneducated" about this or any other issue, with respect and not a attitude of condescension, so by all means teach/learn, but do so with humble heart.

Goes both ways.... Can't one with such strong opposition say, I don't have all the info about this to make a decision, or I'm not sure what is such and such proposition? FYI..I'm only "in the know" because I'm average joe blow citizen that makes an extra effort to get the facts.

It does..
"" so by all means teach/learn, but do so with humble heart."" my own quote.

From Metro's link (http://railforthevalley.wordpress.com/2008/12/22/streetcars-light-rail-whats-the-difference/):

"A streetcar is considered a rail operated transit vehicle, operating on-street, in mixed traffic, with little or no signal priority at intersections, while Light Rail or LRT is a streetcar that operates on a reserved rights-of-way"

Also:

"Today a tram or streetcar system which operated at least 30% of its route on reserved rights-of-ways is considered LRT."

---

Seem like differences too small for anyone to gain an air of intellectual (or MAPS 3) superiority over. In truth, given that the route the transit will take is wholly undecided, it is too early to state for certain that it will not be considered LRT by qualifying under the 30% figure. Yes, it would take a surprising new plan for this to be the case, but any "streetcar" plan that featured uninterrupted right-of-way in boulevard medians or abandoned rail right-of-way might qualify. Of course, because the thrust of Nermel's post was anti-MAPS 3, it is understandable that people would want to nitpick in an effort to undermine his credibility.

Ultimately, I am frustrated by what I see as fairly lazy and complacent support for MAPS 3. The smugness with which dissenters are treated is reflective of a culture we have developed in OKC that deflects questions with subtle insults, claims of superior insight, and calls for "trust". Why not address the points directly without attempting to demean person posing the question(s)? The fact is, many of the questions asked have not been answered and much of the information needed to answer the questions has not been made available (resulting in a "trust them" response). Maybe if we could answer the questions more effectively we could actually convert people from a "vote no" to a "vote yes" position.

Regardless, boiling MAPS 3 down to a for-or-against-proposition is a disservice to the discourse. I am not saying there is a problem with voting on the projects (or just a large block of funding, as it may be). However, I am saying that even people that are for MAPS 3 should critically analyze all aspects of what we are doing in an effort to make it the best it can be.

Mugs...^^^^

"government has to be the entity to cause change"

hmmm a activist type government??!
less smokers, less obesity, healthier citizens,...maybe even a greener citizen??
just saying sometimes not all government "interference" is not a good thing

Sorry, u r correct. But please take it in the context in which it was written. In no way did I infer goverment necessarily should cause change through being "activist." If you want to say OKC's government is activist by proposing such huge undertakings as MAPS and C2S, then that is one way of looking at it, but generally, I don't approve of an activist government.

I simply said government has to be the entity to cause change in the way of clearing large swaths of land to prepare it for large scale redevelopment. A private firm could not likely come in and try to buy the whole C2S area to redevelop it. Government has to do it thru its powers of eminent domain.

MAPS 3 | OKlahoma City (http://www.maps3.org/q_and_a.html)

From the City’s MAPS 3 site (has not been updated to reflect the Ford/NBA tax):

Why do the people vote?

All NEW sales tax increases must be approved by the people. Though a MAPS 3 sales tax would not increase the sales tax rate from where it is today, the one-cent MAPS for Kids sales tax is temporary, and will expire at the end of 2008. A MAPS 3 sales tax would be a NEW tax. It would also be temporary.


City of Oklahoma City | Public Information & Marketing (http://www.okc.gov/maps3/QA.html)

Here is the updated version reflecting the Ford/NBA tax:

Why do the people vote on tax initiatives?

All NEW sales taxes must be approved by the people. Though this sales tax will not increase the sales tax rate in Oklahoma City, the current sports facilities sales tax is temporary (just as MAPS 3 will be) and expires at the end of March, 2010.

In other words, if this tax were to take effect 2 days or 6 months after the Ford tax expires it would be obvious to everyone that it is a tax INCREASE because the rate would fall by a penny, then RAISE back up to the previous level again. The only tax we had that can even remotely be considered an extension was the 6 months that was applied to the original MAPS (why does this count and not the others? because it was for the same purpose). MAPS for Kids was a NEW tax that went for a different purpose. The Ford/NBA tax was a NEW tax that went for a different purpose. MAPS 3 is a NEW tax going for a different purpose.

Don’t believe me, fine...take a look at the Ford tax City Ordinance #23,520 we voted on (NOT the ballot language). It clearly states no less thean SEVEN times, the tax is an ADDITIONAL excise (sales) tax! NO WHERE does it call it an extension.

Now unless you are the Bill Clinton type (it depends on what your definition of “is” is) then I don’t understnd why this is so difficult for some to understand.

Read. Comprehend. Learn. Understand.

This time around they have removed the “additional” language from the actual ordinance. They have replaced it with much more benign sounding “cumulative” language.

By the way, even the Oklahoman FINALLY admitted the Ford tax was a sales tax INCREASE in an editorial right after the Tinker Bond vote...along with admitting the school bond and general obligation bond votes late last year INCREASED property taxes (the campaigns and the Oklahoman mislead voters by saying that it wouldn’t increase taxes).

lol I know Mugs, I just wanted to yank your chain...

I'm being called stupid because I am voting "NO".??? I'm all for city improvements but other areas need to be addressed first....

I would rather see public service and city roads upgraded first. Police already understaffed...this was published last year from the city council's own manpower study....I know the tax isnt an increase but a continuation...

Bring more people in here, when the roads are in horrible shape and police/fire and other city workers are understaffed?....That seems a bit stupid to me....

And mind you, I am not calling anyone stupid that is voting for it...I can see that point too...but I think other things should be done first....

Nikon Nurse, are you aware that we're spending about a BILLION dollars to upgrade all the roads? The bond issue was passed back in 2007 and work has started earlier this year. In addition to the bonds, millions more were allocated by the state and the feds (stimulus). Roads are already funded.

Thank you metro...

You can't drive anywhere in OKC right now without running into road construction.

Nikon Nurse, are you aware that we're spending about a BILLION dollars to upgrade all the roads? The bond issue was passed back in 2007 and work has started earlier this year. In addition to the bonds, millions more were allocated by the state and the feds (stimulus). Roads are already funded.

metro, don't let basic facts get in the way of a good narrative!!! this is a WASTE of TAXPAYER money and won't impact the quality of life in OKC. *sarcasm*

I think people forget that this is a penny tax, and that there are many other ways city services are provided for. If MAPS fails, it doesn't automatically allocate a different penny tax to pay for other items in the city budget. Voting "no" solves no other budgetary problems; it simply means the items on the MAPS ballot do not get funded.

Nikon Nurse, are you aware that we're spending about a BILLION dollars to upgrade all the roads? The bond issue was passed back in 2007 and work has started earlier this year. In addition to the bonds, millions more were allocated by the state and the feds (stimulus). Roads are already funded.

Not on the North side or the periphery of the city, where tons of people commute from....I guess they are on a list...somewhere....to be fixed...

I'm more concerned about the manpower shortage in city services.

Not on the North side or the periphery of the city, where tons of people commute from....I guess they are on a list...somewhere....to be fixed...

Not sure what "North" side you're referring to, but just about every artery between Memorial and 178th and Portland and Western is under construction right now.

If you want to see what streets are specifically slated for improvement via the 2007 General Obligation Bond, then you can go to the City's webpage HERE (http://www.okc.gov/bonds2007/BondSections.aspx?propParam=1&propText=PROPOSITION%201%20(STREETS)) and see which streets are included. Keep in mind, only a limited number of projects can be funded each year. As such, some improvements may not be made for another several years.

It's frustrating through comments both here on OKC Talk and on the Oklahoman's comment boards that people are still so ill-informed as to how City and government funding works. The information is there, folks just need to pay attention. (sorry - rant over)

Not sure what "North" side you're referring to, but just about every artery between Memorial and 178th and Portland and Western is under construction right now.

If you want to see what streets are specifically slated for improvement via the 2007 General Obligation Bond, then you can go to the City's webpage HERE (http://www.okc.gov/bonds2007/BondSections.aspx?propParam=1&propText=PROPOSITION%201%20(STREETS)) and see which streets are slated for improvement. Keep in mind, only a limited number of projects can be funded each year. As such, some improvements may not be made for another several years.

It's frustrating through comments both here on OKC Talk and on the Oklahoman's comment boards that people are still so ill-informed as to how City and government funding works. The information is there, folks just need to pay attention. (sorry - rant over)

It doesn't appear Nikon is interested in facts interfering with the argument.

It appears Nikon also wants a new road repaved to her suburban driveway every 2 years. Folks, quit living in the suburbs if you want nicer roads. We have the 3rd largest (land area wise) city in the U.S. and one of the about 47th in population. Roads don't pay for themselves and we don't have enough people living here to pay for them. The suburbs have been ever expanding and NW and North OKC have been getting the newest roads for the last few decades. To say N and NW OKC doesn't get new roads is laughable at best, they are the newest roads in OKC. The INNER CITY has been neglected for decades and rightfully it should be fixed first, more people live here, it's the heart and soul of the city, and of course in the worst shape. AND as others said, we surely wouldn't want the facts to get in the way, since over a BILLION has been set aside for road construction and repaving all over the metro.

If a property is located within the city limits it is not in the suburbs. How is that for a fact? If you do not like sparsely populated areas within the city limits you should start a deannexation drive.

I'd love for the City to deannex swaths of land. It would only benefit everyone.

FWIW, my residential area (Mesta Park) and the adjoining Heritage Hills area are well under way with repaving. I was watching a crew this morning from my front porch. They move along pretty quickly, too, kinda fun to watch.

Not on the North side or the periphery of the city, where tons of people commute from....I guess they are on a list...somewhere....to be fixed...

I commute in from Edmond, it's been a pain because of how much construction has gone on in North OKC in the past year or so. There are some scattered places where I notice rather bad roads, but most of what I've driven on has been under construction at some point.

Nikon Nurse, are you aware that we're spending about a BILLION dollars to upgrade all the roads? The bond issue was passed back in 2007 and work has started earlier this year. In addition to the bonds, millions more were allocated by the state and the feds (stimulus). Roads are already funded.

While "more than 750 lane miles" are being funded, not sure where the Billion dollars number came from (previous bond issues maybe?). Its not close to that, but about half of that amount (see below). How much additional money is coming from Stimulus money or any other sources for CITY streets? It is my understanding that the Fed stimulus money was going to the States (but may be getting funneled down to the City level). Since the State had a "$900 million budget hole" this year and is so far behind in its own road needs, seems that the State stimulus money would be spent on State roads/bridges rather than City ones. If anyone has any info on that, please post.

Regardless, the 2007 Bond Issue has just under $500M (half a billion) for streets (over the next 10 years).

The City of Oklahoma City - 2007 City Bond Election (http://www.okc.gov/bonds2007/BondPropositions.aspx)

$835.5M TOTAL for the 2007 Bond Issue (of that):

STREETS ($497.49M)
"...more than half of the funds in the bond program are earmarked for street improvements. This proposition finances resurfacing, widening and rebuilding of more than 750 lane miles of streets, mostly in residential areas. Walkers will also benefit from the construction of 350 miles of sidewalks and trails."

BRIDGES ($19.76M)
"These funds will rebuild or repair 17 bridges [of 635] affected by age, wear and tear and weather."

TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEMS ($23.6M)
"The City identified 34 traffic improvement projects that will reduce congestion and improve safety. This proposition will fund new traffic lights, signs, street lighting and improve synchronization."


Over the next 5 years, you can expect (Capital Improvement Plan: FY 2009 - FY 2013 (8/2008)

Of the $2.021 Billion budget:
Streets 15% [$303.15M]
Bridges 1% [$20.21M]
Traffic 1% [$20.21M]

Now Im stupid for living in the suburbs? 122nd sucks all the way to county line...Memorial Road itself eastbound from County line all the way into the turnpike access is loaded with holes and eroding shoulders..I gave my opinion on roads in my area. Frittergirl was kind enough to show me the road projects outlined....SoonerGuru and Metro...just fire off rudeness.....because someone APPEARS to disagree with them totally....

BTW, is this related to the road issue above or is this something different.... Federal Funding Cuts Put the Brakes on Oklahoma Road Projects - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=11261541)

Has anyone else here joined the "Yes for MAPS" coalition? I requested yard signs so I could show my support, but they have yet to arrive and it's been about 3 weeks since I signed up. Just wonderin.. Also, I can't find the yes for maps website anymore. Wonder if they took it down?

Has anyone else here joined the "Yes for MAPS" coalition? I requested yard signs so I could show my support, but they have yet to arrive and it's been about 3 weeks since I signed up. Just wonderin.. Also, I can't find the yes for maps website anymore. Wonder if they took it down?

Here's the yes for MAPS link:

http://yesformaps.com/

Also, I remember with the Ford Center vote I thought they were really late getting yard signs out. But, they told me that if they put them out too soon, fairly quickly people don't pay any attention to them. I volunteered to put yard signs out for that vote, and we did most of them the two weeks before the election. So, I suspect it will be awhile before we get yard signs. I think the best thing we can do now to support the project is talk to friends, neighbors, etc about it and disseminate information if it's needed. Posting on discussion boards can't hurt either, if responses are rational and well thought out.

Now Im stupid for living in the suburbs? 122nd sucks all the way to county line...Memorial Road itself eastbound from County line all the way into the turnpike access is loaded with holes and eroding shoulders..I gave my opinion on roads in my area. Frittergirl was kind enough to show me the road projects outlined....SoonerGuru and Metro...just fire off rudeness.....because someone APPEARS to disagree with them totally....

BTW, is this related to the road issue above or is this something different.... Federal Funding Cuts Put the Brakes on Oklahoma Road Projects - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/Global/story.asp?S=11261541)

That is something different, it is part of annual federal subsidies money, and most road improvements locally are all part of the 2007 Bonds. That won't change, as the feds are as fickle as, well....

What Police, Fire, and City Workers are going to take care of all of the improvements??? Wake up people. The state of our city government is NOT good. Didn't any of you see the Police, Fire, and City workers begging to hire more employees to give safe, adequate service. The Mayor doesn't care. We don't need a freaking park until we have adequate city services!!!!!!!! VOTE NO...or add 1 cent for city government and then vote yes

Metro...How many Police and Fireman have been added to this "Big League" City since 1995??? Did you know that alot of your city crews...the ones pouring concrete and repairing city streets are from a TEMP SERVICE.....People who don't know the first thing about pouring concrete or anything else for that matter.

Have you called 911 lately and waited in line to talk to a real person. Yup you are on "Hold"..... Big League City....LOL....

Firestations are unmanned...police officers are driving 10 year old cars. Our roads have been neglected for a long time. You think they are in good shape??? You want a little park that bad huh? Who are you going to call when a bum or gang banger knocks you off of your roller blades in the park? Who's going to pick up the trash left behind by all of the drunks from bricktown that stumble down there? What do you really know about the state of our city services....Please tell me????

What Police, Fire, and City Workers are going to take care of all of the improvements??? Wake up people. The state of our city government is NOT good. Didn't any of you see the Police, Fire, and City workers begging to hire more employees to give safe, adequate service. The Mayor doesn't care. We don't need a freaking park until we have adequate city services!!!!!!!! VOTE NO...or add 1 cent for city government and then vote yes

I'm a huge union supporter but holding the city hostage on MAPS is counterproductive.

This is a lame way to reach out to people on this board, who would otherwise be very open to hearing your concerns.

This feels like some kind of emotional extortion, and it's not in the city's best interests.

Go whine somewhere else.

If a property is located within the city limits it is not in the suburbs. How is that for a fact? If you do not like sparsely populated areas within the city limits you should start a deannexation drive.

Many of us have called for just that. It needs to happen.

Dang, did someone post a link to OKCTalk from the NewsOK comment sections or something?

This is not a given for economic benefits. Major conventions are down -- even before the recession -- what they were in previous years.

What's down are lavish, destination conventions at resorts in Orlando and big casino hotels in Vegas. For example, Devon recently pulled a convention out of Tucson, AZ and had it here in OKC instead.

But regional conventions in less exotic places aren't going anywhere and the new convention center will be necessary to even keep up with places like Little Rock and Des Moines.


(1) I agree with comments above that see the poll is capable of being interpreted as a glass half-full or half-empty. My take is that, particularly given the absence of information we presently have which causes reluctance in some like me in reaching a final conclusion (and city hall only has itself to blame for that), ultimate voter approval does not look to me like a dire straight circumstance at all since, sooner or later, the detail will presumably be supplied. We know from recent experience (the March 4 vote) that the Chamber is adept at campaigning and I'd be amazed if the Chamber didn't do its part in this piece of Okc history very well. Given that, I see the poll as not a particularly worrisome thing, from a pro-Maps 3 vote perspective.

I agree. And they say that support is waning based on the lack of support for the Ford Center extension, but I think that's just the nature of that particular [controversial] project(s), as opposed to general waning support of a one-cent sales tax.


I'm not sure the question should be: Will we see an increase in Convention business with a new convention center, but rather: Will the Cox Center slowly decay and will we fall even further behind in convention bookings?

Exactly. Our convention center is small for our market size and will be a joke in 10 years when the new one could be complete.


Including it in MAPS 3 will allow us to build the Expo Center now, instead of 20-30 years from now. Most of the exhibit buildings at the fairgrounds drastically need to be replaced.

Are you sure they are actually going to build the expo center the Fair Board proposed 6-9 months ago? I've not seen that actual language in the MAPS 3 announcements and I thought the expo center was going to be much more expensive than that.

:woowoo: Let me tell you what's lame. Lame is not having added one additional city worker to include policeman or fireman since 1995. This after the cities population has grown over 100,000. That's lame. Lame is having to be put on hold when dialing 911. Lame is building new firestations when 2 of the ones we already have are unmanned. Lame is building a mulit million dollar park when some parks in this city are crumbling to the ground. It's not about the Union. It's about the state of our city's services.

Sooner..i have a feeling where you live everything is great!!! great roads, parks, maybe even a gated community?? No ones holding anyone hostage. The city counsel didn't have any problem voting yes. We just think it's important for this city to truely know what's really going on. City Services have patched up this city long enough. Administrators have gone along with the Mayor and city manager long enough. Quietly done MORE with LESS. They just want the city's citizens to truely know the state of services.

Soonerguru. I'm still waiting to tell me the state of our city services?? Tell me how you would rate their importance compared to MAPS 3. Then tell me what you would rate the state of our city services? Tell me what's important to you. I never even imagined i'd have to argue that City workers, Policeman or fireman need to be more important than a park and fairground improvements. it's laughable. I can only hope if we polled people visiting our city common sense would prevail and they would know which they valued more. Try the common sense approach and see if you come to the same conclusion.

... Are you sure they are actually going to build the expo center the Fair Board proposed 6-9 months ago? I've not seen that actual language in the MAPS 3 announcements and I thought the expo center was going to be much more expensive than that.

Here is this from aboutokc.com (or something like that)

"In the interest of drawing national trade shows and continuing to boost OKC's economy, they've proposed a new $30-$50 million exposition center with a minimum of 300,000 square feet."

Haven't run across the Oklahoman article yet (even if bookmarked, if over 60 days, they have instituted a $1.49 charge per article just to view the complete article).

I'd hardly consider about.com a reliable source...

I'd hardly consider about.com a reliable source...

Sorry about that...it was the one I ran across...still haven't run across the ones I saw in the Oklahoman yet (honestly can't recall what the amounts were). Maybe Steve has that info (surely the Oklahoman doesn't charge him as well....LOL)

:woowoo: Let me tell you what's lame. Lame is not having added one additional city worker to include policeman or fireman since 1995. This after the cities population has grown over 100,000. That's lame. Lame is having to be put on hold when dialing 911. Lame is building new firestations when 2 of the ones we already have are unmanned. Lame is building a mulit million dollar park when some parks in this city are crumbling to the ground. It's not about the Union. It's about the state of our city's services.

Sooner..i have a feeling where you live everything is great!!! great roads, parks, maybe even a gated community?? No ones holding anyone hostage. The city counsel didn't have any problem voting yes. We just think it's important for this city to truely know what's really going on. City Services have patched up this city long enough. Administrators have gone along with the Mayor and city manager long enough. Quietly done MORE with LESS. They just want the city's citizens to truely know the state of services.

I'm sure we could use more police and fire, etc., but I haven't really heard them vocalize ANYTHING about this. If it is such dire straights, then why isn't their public outcry, Police/Fire outcry, media attention (sorry but media would flock to this if they are truly upset). I've called 911 several times this year and I've never once been on hold. Sorry, but MAPS is a Quality of Life issue that will generate tens of millions more in city revenue, that can in turn be used for raises and more personnel. Personnel are not tax generating near to the extent of public enhancement projects that improve the quality of life.

> I've called 911 several times this year ...

Glad you weren't put on hold and regrets extended that
you've needed to contact 911 multiple times.

and back to topic ... I have to agree that any planning of personnel via a temporary revenue source is not a sound approach, unless one knows the added folks are only needed on the short term.

Soonerguru. I'm still waiting to tell me the state of our city services?? Tell me how you would rate their importance compared to MAPS 3. Then tell me what you would rate the state of our city services? Tell me what's important to you. I never even imagined i'd have to argue that City workers, Policeman or fireman need to be more important than a park and fairground improvements. it's laughable. I can only hope if we polled people visiting our city common sense would prevail and they would know which they valued more. Try the common sense approach and see if you come to the same conclusion.

You still ignore the fact that the MAPS proposals will increase density in the inner city, which is more sustainable for existing fire and police services.

Since when is MAPS used as a funding mechanism for city services? It wasn't designed for that, and frankly, should not replace other funding mechanisms, like roads, for example.

Please provide some factual information and a solution other than blocking MAPS. If MAPS fails, I can GUARANTEE you the police and fire departments will not be receiving a raise any time soon.

And I'll take it further: if the the police and fire unions campaign against MAPS III, I will actively work against any future funding increases for either department.

This scorched earth policy will only serve to get you enemies among people who are inclined to support you. It's bad politcs. Figure it out.

You're not going to win any support here trashing MAPS.

Sooner..i have a feeling where you live everything is great!!! great roads, parks, maybe even a gated community??

Wow. You are quite the presumptuous little troll, aren't you? For what it's worth, I live in the inner city.

Learn how to treat people with respect.

Your attitude is so poor and you're so clueless about the posters in this community I'm going to tune you out.

But rest assured, if the police and fire unions campaign against MAPS, you will not have my support for any future raise.

Are you sure they are actually going to build the expo center the Fair Board proposed 6-9 months ago? I've not seen that actual language in the MAPS 3 announcements and I thought the expo center was going to be much more expensive than that.

That's what all of the MAPS 3 conceptual drawings are showing.

http://kwtv.images.worldnow.com/images/11158943_BG1.jpg

http://kotv.com/newsimages/slideshow/c18a31cb-b923-4316-b24f-eed6ef41685d.jpg

http://kotv.com/newsimages/slideshow/759110fc-2c04-4591-875a-e75257ff071c.jpg

http://kotv.com/newsimages/slideshow/66dac433-9c4a-453d-a36b-8aa84953fef1.jpg

And the description on the city's MAPS 3 site state: "This project will upgrade publicly-used facilities at the Oklahoma State Fairgrounds, especially those used by the public during the annual State Fair of Oklahoma. It will consolidate various structures that are in excess of 50 years old. "

What Police, Fire, and City Workers are going to take care of all of the improvements??? Wake up people. The state of our city government is NOT good. Didn't any of you see the Police, Fire, and City workers begging to hire more employees to give safe, adequate service. The Mayor doesn't care. We don't need a freaking park until we have adequate city services!!!!!!!! VOTE NO...or add 1 cent for city government and then vote yes


Whether we vote yes or no on MAPS 3 will not affect the city's general budget. The two issues aren't even related.

Metro...How many Police and Fireman have been added to this "Big League" City since 1995??? Did you know that alot of your city crews...the ones pouring concrete and repairing city streets are from a TEMP SERVICE.....People who don't know the first thing about pouring concrete or anything else for that matter.

Have you called 911 lately and waited in line to talk to a real person. Yup you are on "Hold"..... Big League City....LOL....

Firestations are unmanned...police officers are driving 10 year old cars. Our roads have been neglected for a long time. You think they are in good shape??? You want a little park that bad huh? Who are you going to call when a bum or gang banger knocks you off of your roller blades in the park? Who's going to pick up the trash left behind by all of the drunks from bricktown that stumble down there? What do you really know about the state of our city services....Please tell me????

Again, MAPS has no impact on issues that concern the city's general budget. Police cars have been adequately funded with routine bond issues. Not an issue. Roads are being improved with the recent $1 billion bond issue. How much money you want to spend on roads? I think we're spending enough.
Again, the rest of the issues you mention are issues regarding the city's general budget. Whether we vote yes or no on MAPS won't affect the current problems you mention.

:woowoo: Let me tell you what's lame. Lame is not having added one additional city worker to include policeman or fireman since 1995. This after the cities population has grown over 100,000. That's lame. Lame is having to be put on hold when dialing 911. Lame is building new firestations when 2 of the ones we already have are unmanned. Lame is building a mulit million dollar park when some parks in this city are crumbling to the ground. It's not about the Union. It's about the state of our city's services.

These issues all come out of the city's general budget. If you're not happy with it, you need to elect different council people. MAPS has nothing to do with this, and whether MAPS passes or fails, these problems will not change. So, taking it out on MAPS isn't going to get you anywhere. In fact, it's going to hold our city further behind.


Sooner..i have a feeling where you live everything is great!!! great roads, parks, maybe even a gated community?? No ones holding anyone hostage. The city counsel didn't have any problem voting yes. We just think it's important for this city to truely know what's really going on. City Services have patched up this city long enough. Administrators have gone along with the Mayor and city manager long enough. Quietly done MORE with LESS. They just want the city's citizens to truely know the state of services.

I don't know what else you want. We're spending $1 billion through the last general obligation bond passed a few years ago on these issues.

Soonerguru. I'm still waiting to tell me the state of our city services?? Tell me how you would rate their importance compared to MAPS 3. Then tell me what you would rate the state of our city services? Tell me what's important to you. I never even imagined i'd have to argue that City workers, Policeman or fireman need to be more important than a park and fairground improvements. it's laughable. I can only hope if we polled people visiting our city common sense would prevail and they would know which they valued more. Try the common sense approach and see if you come to the same conclusion.

City services are getting their fair share, to the tune of $1 billion in money from the recent general obligation bond issue that was passed.

I think we have one of the best fire depts in the country. So I don't see the issue. And, through the last bond issue, the police dept. is getting some of the highest tech vehicles in the nation. To say we don't value these services because we're for MAPS 3 is ludicrous. If we didn't value these services, we wouldn't have passed a nearly $1 billion bond issue.

Here's an overview of what is coming out of the 2007 bond issue we passed.

The City of Oklahoma City - 2007 City Bond Election (http://www.okc.gov/bonds2007/)

Oklahoma City voters will go to the polls on December 11 to vote on an $835.5 million Bond Issue to improve or replace our City’s infrastructure.

Projects include the repair of hundreds of miles of residential and arterial streets, repairing bridges, improving parks, addressing drainage systems, constructing sidewalks and trails, building new police and fire stations, replacing busses, updating libraries and providing incentives for economic development.

More than half of the bonds are allocated towards street repair. If the bond election passes, your city property tax rate will not increase. The bonds are projected to be sold over a 10-year period, from 2008-2017.

Voting for the bond election takes place on December 11, 2007. Polls are open from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. If your precinct number is not on the list, you are not eligible to vote on the Bond Election. For information about registration see the Oklahoma State Election Board or call 405 521-2391. Click here for the Oklahoma County Election Polling Place List.

Click on the to view the legal text.



PROPOSITION 1 (STREETS) $497,490,000

PROPOSITION 2 (BRIDGES) $19,760,000

PROPOSITION 3 (TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEM) $23,590,000

PROPOSITION 4 (DRAINAGE CONTROL SYSTEM) $32,855,000

PROPOSITION 5 (PARKS AND RECREATIONAL FACILITIES) $89,755,000

PROPOSITION 6 (FIRE) $15,000,000

PROPOSITION 7 (POLICE) $41,200,000

PROPOSITION 8 (LIBRARIES) $12,845,000

PROPOSITION 9 (CITY MAINTENANCE FACILITIES) $20,165,000

PROPOSITION 10 (TRANSIT) $7,840,000

PROPOSITION 11 (ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT) $75,000,000

This is the proposition language that will appear on the ballot.
SPECIAL ELECTION PROCLAMATION AND NOTICE

I, MICK CORNETT, MAYOR OF THE CITY OF OKLAHOMA CITY, DO HEREBY PROCLAIM AS FOLLOWS:

1. Under and by virtue of Section 27 and Section 35, Article 10 of the Constitution of the State of Oklahoma, and the laws of the the State of Oklahoma, and acts complementary, supplementary, and enacted pursuant thereto, and Resolution dated October 9, 2007, of The City of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, authorizing the calling of an election for the purposes hereinafter set forth, as adopted and approved by the Council of said City on the 9th day of October, 2007, I, the undersigned Mayor of The City of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, do hereby call a special City-wide election and give notice thereof to be held in The City of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, on the 11th day of December, 2007, for the purpose of submitting to the registered, qualified voters of said City the following Propositions:

PROPOSITION NO. 1

(STREETS)
Description
Because street repair was your #1 priority in the last two citizen surveys, more than half of the funds in the bond program are earmarked for street improvements. This proposition finances resurfacing, widening and rebuilding of more than 750 lane miles of streets, mostly in residential areas. Walkers will also benefit from the construction of 350 miles of sidewalks and trails.
Legal Description
Shall The City of Oklahoma City, State of Oklahoma, incur an indebtedness by issuing registered bonds in the sum of Four Hundred Ninety Seven Million Four Hundred Ninety Thousand Dollars ($497,490,000) to provide funds for the purpose of constructing, reconstructing, improving, and repairing streets and related engineering, right-of-way acquisition, utility relocation, drainage, traffic control, markings, conduit, intersection, sidewalks, curbs, signage, landscaping, irrigation systems, street furniture and street lighting improvements, along with street maintenance and construction equipment and materials, to be completed with or without the use of other funds, and levy and collect an annual tax, in addition to all other taxes, upon all the taxable property in said City sufficient to pay the interest on said bonds as it falls due, and also to constitute a sinking fund for the payment of the principal thereof when due, said bonds to bear interest at a rate not to exceed ten percent (10%) per annum, payable semi-annually, and to become due serially within twenty-five years from their date?


PROPOSITION NO. 2

(BRIDGES)
Description
Overall, the City does a good job maintaining our 635 bridges. These funds will rebuild or repair 17 bridges affected by age, wear and tear and weather.
Legal Description
Shall The City of Oklahoma City, State of Oklahoma, incur an indebtedness by issuing registered bonds in the sum of Nineteen Million Seven Hundred Sixty Thousand Dollars ($19,760,000) to provide funds for the purpose of constructing, reconstructing, improving and repairing bridges and related appurtenances, engineering, right-of-way acquisition, utility relocation, drainage, traffic control, lighting and approach improvements, along with bridge inspection and maintenance equipment and materials, to be completed with or without the use of other funds, and levy and collect an annual tax, in addition to all other taxes, upon all the taxable property in said City sufficient to pay the interest on said bonds as it falls due, and also to constitute a sinking fund for the payment of the principal thereof when due, said bonds to bear interest at a rate not to exceed ten percent (10%) per annum, payable semi-annually, and to become due serially within twenty-five years from their date?


PROPOSITION NO. 3

(TRAFFIC CONTROL SYSTEM)
Description
The City identified 34 traffic improvement projects that will reduce congestion and improve safety. This proposition will fund new traffic lights, signs, street lighting and improve synchronization.
Legal Description
Shall The City of Oklahoma City, State of Oklahoma, incur an indebtedness by issuing registered bonds in the sum of Twenty Three Million Five Hundred Ninety Thousand Dollars ($23,590,000) to provide funds for the purpose of constructing, acquiring and installing traffic control equipment and improvements, signals, signs and devices, and related engineering, right-of-way acquisition, utility relocation, drainage, conduit, intersection and lighting improvements, along with traffic control maintenance, construction, and analysis equipment and materials, to be owned exclusively by said City, to be completed with or without the use of other funds, and levy and collect an annual tax, in addition to all other taxes, upon all the taxable property in said City sufficient to pay the interest on said bonds as it falls due, and also to constitute a sinking fund for the payment of the principal thereof when due, said bonds to bear interest at a rate not to exceed ten percent (10%) per annum, payable semi-annually, and to become due serially within twenty-five years from their date?

PROPOSITION NO. 4

(DRAINAGE CONTROL SYSTEM)
Description
You approved funding for more than $114 million in drainage improvements in the last two bond elections. This proposition continues drainage upgrades around the City.
Legal Description
Shall The City of Oklahoma City, State of Oklahoma, incur an indebtedness by issuing registered bonds in the sum of Thirty Two Million Eight Hundred Fifty Five Thousand Dollars ($32,855,000); to provide funds for the purpose of improving the City’s drainage control system and related right-of-way acquisition, engineering and utility relocation, along with drainage improvement and maintenance equipment and materials, to be owned exclusively by said City, to be completed with or without the use of other funds, and levy and collect an annual tax, in addition to all other taxes, upon all the taxable property in said City sufficient to pay the interest on said bonds as it falls due, and also to constitute a sinking fund for the payment of the principal thereof when due, said bonds to bear interest at a rate not to exceed ten percent (10%) per annum, payable semi-annually, and to become due serially within twenty-five years from their date?


PROPOSITION NO. 5

(PARKS AND RECREATIONAL FACILITIES)
Description
Quality parks raise property values, strengthen families, reduce obesity and provide a safe place for children to play. This proposition funds 14 new playgrounds, eight basketball courts, 47 walking paths, two new parks and improvements to 13 community centers, as well as the Myriad Botanical Gardens.
Legal Description
Shall The City of Oklahoma City, State of Oklahoma, incur an indebtedness by issuing registered bonds in the sum of Eighty Nine Million Seven Hundred Fifty-five Thousand Dollars ($89,755,000) to provide funds for the purpose of improving, renovating, acquiring and equipping parks and recreational facilities, to be owned exclusively by said City, to be completed with or without the use of other funds, and levy and collect an annual tax, in addition to all other taxes, upon all the taxable property in said City sufficient to pay the interest on said bonds as it falls due, and also to constitute a sinking fund for the payment of the principal thereof when due, said bonds to bear interest at a rate not to exceed ten percent (10%) per annum, payable semi-annually, and to become due serially within twenty-five years from their date?

PROPOSITION NO. 6

(FIRE)
Description
As the City grows, so must our public safety infrastructure. This proposition funds the recommendations of a fire station relocation study for three new fire stations in south Oklahoma City and the rebuilding of two 30-year-old stations.
Legal Description
Shall The City of Oklahoma City, State of Oklahoma, incur an indebtedness by issuing registered bonds in the sum of Fifteen Million Dollars ($15,000,000), to provide funds for the purpose of providing new fire stations and repair, renovation, construction, replacement, furnishing and equipping of Fire Department facilities, to be owned exclusively by said City, to be completed with or without the use of other funds, and levy and collect an annual tax, in addition to all other taxes, upon all the taxable property in said City sufficient to pay the interest on said bonds as it falls due, and also to constitute a sinking fund for the payment of the principal thereof when due, said bonds to bear interest at a rate not to exceed ten percent (10%) per annum, payable semi-annually, and to become due serially within twenty-five years from their date?

PROPOSITION NO. 7

(POLICE)
Description
The police headquarters and courts complex, built in 1964, is in dire need of renovation to address plumbing, electrical, air and space concerns. The three-story building will be renovated to better serve officers and staff. Proposition 7 also includes funds for a police briefing station in southwest Oklahoma City and a new detox facility.
Legal Description
Shall The City of Oklahoma City, State of Oklahoma, incur an indebtedness by issuing registered bonds in the sum of Forty One Million Two Hundred Thousand Dollars ($41,200,000) to provide funds for the purpose of improving and providing Police Department facilities including renovation, expansion, improvement, equipping and furnishing of the Police Headquarters/Municipal Courts Complex and construct, equip and furnish a new Public Inebriate Alternative (Detox) Facility and a new Police Briefing Station, to be owned exclusively by said City, to be completed with or without the use of other funds, and levy and collect an annual tax, in addition to all other taxes, upon all the taxable property in said City sufficient to pay the interest on said bonds as it falls due, and also to constitute a sinking fund for the payment of the principal thereof when due, said bonds to bear interest at a rate not to exceed ten percent (10%) per annum, payable semi-annually, and to become due serially within twenty-five years from their date?


PROPOSITION NO. 8

(LIBRARIES)
Description
Both the Metropolitan and Pioneer Library Systems serve more than 600,000 people annually. This proposition adds funding for two new branch libraries, one in southwest and another in northwest Oklahoma City. Funding is also included for renovation of Capitol Hill and Belle Isle libraries.
Legal Description
Shall The City of Oklahoma City, State of Oklahoma, incur an indebtedness by issuing registered bonds in the sum of Twelve Million Eight Hundred Forty Five Thousand Dollars ($12,845,000) to provide funds for the purpose of constructing new libraries and for the purpose of expanding, renovating, remodeling, repairing, improving, equipping and furnishing libraries, to be owned exclusively by said City, to be completed with or without the use of other funds, and levy and collect an annual tax, in addition to all other taxes, upon all the taxable property in said City sufficient to pay the interest on said bonds as it falls due, and also to constitute a sinking fund for the payment of the principal thereof when due, said bonds to bear interest at a rate not to exceed ten percent (10%) per annum, payable semi-annually, and to become due serially within twenty-five years from their date?


PROPOSITION NO. 9

(CITY MAINTENANCE FACILITIES)
Description
The City’s Central Maintenance Facility at SW 15 and Portland is home to street maintenance, construction inspections and the Household Hazardous Waste facility. This proposition funds the expansion of the maintenance facility, allowing us to consolidate city maintenance operations.
Legal Description
Shall The City of Oklahoma City, State of Oklahoma, incur an indebtedness by issuing registered bonds in the sum of Twenty Million One Hundred Sixty Five Thousand Dollars ($20,165,000) to provide funds for the purpose of expanding, renovating, improving, equipping and furnishing the City’s Central Maintenance Facility in the vicinity of SW 15th and Portland and consolidation and relocation of maintenance, storage and operation facilities from City-wide locations to the City’s Central Maintenance Facility, and related demolition and land restoration, to be owned exclusively by said City, to be completed with or without the use of other funds, and levy and collect an annual tax, in addition to all other taxes, upon all the taxable property in said City sufficient to pay the interest on said bonds as it falls due, and also to constitute a sinking fund for the payment of the principal thereof when due, said bonds to bear interest at a rate not to exceed ten percent (10%) per annum, payable semi-annually, and to become due serially within twenty-five years from their date?

PROPOSITION NO. 10

(TRANSIT)
Description
A reliable bus fleet is key to a good mass transit system. This funding replaces worn out vehicles and adds wheelchair accessible vans. The new fleet will get better fuel mileage and improve accessibility for people with disabilities.
Legal Description
Shall The City of Oklahoma City, State of Oklahoma, incur an indebtedness by issuing registered bonds in the sum of Seven Million Eight Hundred Forty Thousand Dollars ($7,840,000) to provide funds for the purpose of acquiring transit vehicles and equipment, and expansion, renovation, construction remodeling, repair, improvement, equipping and furnishing of transit facilities, to be owned exclusively by said City, to be completed with or without the use of other funds, and levy and collect an annual tax, in addition to all other taxes, upon all the taxable property in said City sufficient to pay the interest on said bonds as it falls due, and also to constitute a sinking fund for the payment of the principal thereof when due, said bonds to bear interest at a rate not to exceed ten percent (10%) per annum, payable semi-annually, and to become due serially within twenty-five years from their date?


PROPOSITION NO. 11

(ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT)
Description
A diversified employment base that provides quality job opportunities is important to our growth. This proposition creates economic incentives for companies that relocate or expand in Oklahoma City. Oversight for this incentive program will be provided by a City trust made up of citizens and elected officials similar to the MAPS for Kids program.
Legal Description
Shall the City of Oklahoma City, State of Oklahoma, incur an indebtedness by issuing its bonds in the sum of Seventy Five Million Dollars ($75,000,000) for the purpose of economic and community development in Oklahoma City, with or without the use of other funds, and levy and collect a special tax, payable annually in addition to all other taxes, upon all the taxable property in said City sufficient to pay the interest on said bonds as it falls due, and also to constitute a sinking fund for the payment of the principal thereof when due, said bonds to bear interest at not to exceed the rate of ten percentum (10%) per annum, payable semiannually and to become due within thirty (30) years from their date: Provided however, that in no event shall the real and personal taxable property in said City be subject to a special tax in excess of five mills on the dollar for all bonds issued pursuant to Section 35, Article X of the Oklahoma Constitution?

To say we aren't addressing Police and Fire issues is ludicrous. Check this out:
http://www.okc.gov/p&f_equip/index.html

In regards to police cars, the 2000 general bond issue financed 300 new police vehicles which have been purchased over the past 9 years.

2 new police helicopters were also puchased.

The following fire equipment was purchased:
4 pumpers,
3 wild land interface vehicles,
2 district chief command vehicles,
1 mobile command post,
12 sedans,
12 blazers,
2 pickups,
2 emergency response utility vehicles,
1 wrecker,
1 fuel truck,
1 forklift,
6 vans,
and 1 5-passenger van.

Six brush pumper cab and chassis have been delivered; four completed brush pumpers have been constructed in-house and are in service, with two under construction.

Eight vehicles have been ordered and are pending delivery: 2 pumpers, 3 brush pumper cab and chassis, 2 district chief command vehicles, and 1 heavy-duty pickup.

In regards to complaints about 911, the 2000 blond issue resolved those issues:

Ground was broken October 28, 2003 for the new $4.6 million Emergency Communications Center at the corner of Robert S. Kerr & Shartel.

Police and Fire both dispatch units from the news comm center.
The center was not on the original list of projects to be funded with the Public Safety Capital Improvements temporary dedicated one-half cent sales tax approved by voters on March 14, 2000.

But in March, 2002, City Council voted to add it, agreeing that the $4.6 million project was a public safety capital investment consistent with the overall purpose of the temporary dedicated sales tax.

The new center is about 25,300 square feet. It includes a locker room, conference room, training area and situation room, as well as a full kitchen and day area. The center houses both police and fire dispatchers – who previously worked from separate facilities – and serves as the hub of the City's trunked radio system.

The building is designed to withstand F5 tornadoes and straight wind gusts up to 250 mph.

The building was designed by Robison & Associates Architects of Oklahoma City and Hayes, Seay, Mattern & Mattern, Inc. of Virginia Beach, Virginia.

All of the above is to show that we have already addressed the infrastructure issues mentioned as reasons not to vote for MAPS 3. Most of the projects implemented through the 2007 bond issue are ongoing.

Patrick

I love the cut and paste you've done. It's obvious that you've very involved in our city government. To what extent I don't know. You've shown me that we spent

41 Million dollars on the Police Department. I can read. Thank you. Renovating a police station that was built in 1964. A new Detox facility. A new briefing station on the southside of oklahoma city. That's not what the City Services have been trying to tell the Council.

15 Million dollars on the Fire Department. All for much needed equipment and renovating stations. Some that were 30 years old. That's not what the City Services have been trying to tell the Council.

I hope that was a joke. We spent 56 million on the above. We added ZERO people to use the above listed equipment.

However, my favorite was the 12 million spent on a library. The Prop 11!!!! thats the one 75 MILLION!!! We're giving away!!!! Economic Developement!!

Patrick. you aren't quite as up to speed as you think. Did you say in 2000? over 9 years in reference to the cars? Are you aware that a police car in our pool system can reach over 100,000 miles in about 2-3years. So if we wait 9 years...mmm you do the math.

You can buy all the fancy technology you want. Desks, Buildings, cars, trucks etc..but with limited manpower to operate the stuff what good is it??? that's the point!!

I can imagine new equipment is greatly appreciated, but additional manpower is and has been the need for several years.

PEOPLE are what's needed. P-E-O-P-L-E!!!! Warm Bodies!!!! More Policeman. More Fireman. More City Workers.

Voting NO for maps3 won't automatically fix any of the above problems. But get serious. $777 million dollars for MAPS is should be spent on some of the other problems FIRST. That's the point!!

Is anyone aware that a recent study was done on just the Police Department. A study suggested by the Council. A study done by an independent company. The study suggested the current Police Department is understaffed by at least 250 to 500 officers. That's 250 minimum!! Try doing what ever job you do effectively short 250 people. The study that is being IGNORED by the Mayor, City Manager, and City Counsel. Actually Patrick I'm sure you are aware of the study you seem up to speed on what's going on.

And lastly, Make NO MISTAKE. This is NOT about raises like the Mayor eluded to tonight on the News. That seemed funny the Mayor and counsel got themselves a little pay raise recently but I didn't think that was a problem. I heard about the Mayors new job also. The one with a company that stands to benefit quite nicely with the new MAPS3.

Pay is done on a survey. A survey that the Mayor and counsel have demanded for several years. "Top Ten" survey. They are paid close to what other Police Officers are paid in cities our size. That's fair I think.

I don't expect to change your opinions or vote. Just give you a little different perspective. A real perspective. I'd like a park and enjoy bricktown, but We are on the brink of some big Safety problems here in our city. I don't think some of you will believe that until something tragic is happening to you or your family and services stretched will not be able to prevent something horrible from happening. I know none of the Policeman, Fireman or City Employee's want that to happen. They don't want more PAY..they want a little help doing their jobs effectively.

I also KNOW that some of the current people in our government have PERSONAL interests in mind and not the welfare of their employees or citizens. Personal gain and recognition is what drives them. Unfortunately, they are doing it at the expense of City Workers Safety and the Citizens in General. That makes them more disgusting than others. The Police Officers in this City have already voted not to support MAPS3. I'm sure the other City Services will do the same. Vote NO for MAPS3. The mayor and counsel can do better.

Soonerguru...I was right..just like I knew I was. I know what we can do. DE ANEX all of downtown. Then you guys can vote for whatever you want. See how much money you raise then for your park. Don't throw your nose to far up in the air lil man. I owned a house down there a few years ago, but I didn't thumb my nose at the rest of the city.

I also agree with you Patrick. I feel VERY confident their will be a few different faces on the Counsel soon. It's a Counselman or Counselwomans obligation to KNOW the state of their city's services. And yes to vote their constituent's desires, but also do what's best ethically for the entire city. Let's get real. Citizens don't know what's going on exactly with our city's services. A counselman sits in those private meetings, not citizens. So citizens are blind to what's really going on. They depend on that Counselman to make the right vote. SHAME on that city counsel. They were in the meetings that told them how short in manpower each agency is and has been.

ZERO backbone. A bunch of sheep following a leader that's a wolf in sheeps clothing. At least one member had the nerve to see the writing on the wall and try to do something better for the city. It's funny that the counselman who's part of Oklahoma City has been neglected the most and who has the majority of his constituent's against all MAPS voted yes. He may be the worst of them all. He apparently didn't look at any poll numbers about his own ward before voting. Good job SKIP!!!! I can promise you're a gonner!!!! LOL