Today's New York Times has an interesting story on the Thunder's Kevin Durant and his life around OKC. Surprisingly it's pretty positive... read it here (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/23/sports/basketball/23durant.html?_r=1&th&emc=th).

Not sure how I feel about the article and thanks for sharing! I don't care for the picture they used at the practice facility. It definitely makes us look like a hick town with the field of grass and the grain silo in the background.

Agriculture ≠ Hick

Great. This makes it sound as if we don't know who he is. I've seen him and most of the team around town, having dinner, going to the movies, and whatever else they want to do. I think they just haven't learned that we as Oklahoman's are just respectful. I consider them Oklahomans now and just don't want to be rude. I sat next to 3 of them at the bar at Chili's one night. We all had a toast, conversed, and had dinner next to each other at the bar. We shared appetizers even. And then went our separate ways without ever once mentioning basketball. I absolutely knew who they were, I just didn't think I should intrude upon their personal time with pointing it out.

Not sure how I feel about the article and thanks for sharing! I don't care for the picture they used at the practice facility. It definitely makes us look like a hick town with the field of grass and the grain silo in the background.

That pic is so small I missed it.

I did notice that the writer had to mention cows and pastures and an empty airport though.

The New York Knicks are rumored to be highly interested in signing KD once his contract is up with the Thunder.

The New York Knicks are rumored to be highly interested in signing KD once his contract is up with the Thunder.

Yeah, them and 30 other teams. ; )

Excuse me but Kevin went to UT, think there are lots of cows there too. I am not a cattle expert but I think Bevo is a boy cow. Maybe that is why this story seems to be fixated on cows.

Yes, we know who you are and think that it is awesome that you play for us, but we are not generally rude here. Maybe we need to start fawning over him a little bit more, ask for his autograph while he is eating, at the urinal etc.

Excuse me but Kevin went to UT, think there are lots of cows there too. I am not a cattle expert but I think Bevo is a boy cow. Maybe that is why this story seems to be fixated on cows.

Yes, we know who you are and think that it is awesome that you play for us, but we are not generally rude here. Maybe we need to start fawning over him a little bit more, ask for his autograph while he is eating, at the urinal etc.
Be careful what you ask for, Kim! :omg:

Not sure how I feel about the article and thanks for sharing! I don't care for the picture they used at the practice facility. It definitely makes us look like a hick town with the field of grass and the grain silo in the background.

metro, you care so much about OKC, yet you dislike random things about the city we both love. It's so weird some times.

We ARE a bit of a hick town! Embrace it. We're a bit hickish, we're a bit cowboy, we're a lot oil and gas, and we have an NBA team and deep urban revival.

You know what makes other towns SEEM cooler than OKC?! They EMBRACE their differences. Austin is highly liberal and weird, for instance. They EMBRACE that. We're a little city gettin' big. We have mild accents. There are grain elevators converted into indoor climbing facilities. There are LOTS of undeveloped areas in the middle of our city (i.e.- GREEN areas). We dip stuff in ranch. We like chicken fried steak. We listen to country music. We're not at the front of economic or fashion trends. We are not a cosmopolitan city and never will be one...but we can be and are great. Who the hell cares about a silo in the background; people in NYC probably find that fascinating. I don't want to Dallas my OKC.

We're OKC. We make no apologies. And the sooner everyone gets that, we can shed this self-loathing lack of definition we've had for so damned long.

That was an awesome article chronicling KD's lifestyle and the awesome, interesting, and compelling dichotomy we here in OKC have as a successful, yet young and western, city.

Matt, I agree. If you notice much, I'm NOT one of the ones that gripes all the times about buffalos, cowboys, horses, etc. around town. In fact, I embrace it and see it as the missing link to us achieving the next level of greatness. Texas has embraced it quite well and is riding success because of it. People want to come here to see that type of "western" culture or vibe. I'm no cowboy type by any means, nor care to be, but I realize the value of it. Still, my opinion doesn't change about the poor image that the NY Times used for the article. It shows metal buildings with a grain elevator (actually the Purina dog food mill) I believe, and a bunch of weeds/grass. Not exactly the image we're trying to convey. Everyone in NYC expects we have that, but doesn't expect the urbanness, etc. THAT is the real surprise about OKC to outsiders!

Many New Yorkers (and easterners in general) tend to view everything west of Philadelphia and south of DC as "hick towns" even places like Atlanta, Dallas and Houston. As OKCMallen stated, some find it fascinating while others don't, that could be said about pretty much any place. I know people in OKC who will never visit a city bigger than Dallas, to them NYC is an overpopulated wasteland. It just depends on what your point of view is and for the most part you are never going to change those mindsets, so why worry about trying...just try and attract those who would be interested.

Many New Yorkers (and easterners in general) tend to view everything west of Philadelphia and south of DC as "hick towns" even places like Atlanta, Dallas and Houston.

try west of the Hudson.....

I have read other places as well where our players like the solitude and slow pace of being in OKC, as well as the friendly nature of the people. They like being people here, not rock stars. Keep in mind that their normal pace is city to city, crowds and more crowds and many times a total lack of privacy. It is why many footballers like to play in Nashville. They can have a life.

There are many pro players that like the party life and hanging with their entourages in loud and trendy night spots, but there are just as many who grew up in and like the slower, quieter off court lifestyle. Guys like Kevin and Desmond and CP. The only thing missing here for them is lucrative local ad deals.

try west of the Hudson.....
Well, I was trying to be a bit generous...

I think over the years Metro and I have been on the same page and just didn't realize it. After fighting through the rough posts, it seems we are both trying to say the same thing - we don't hate cows, buffalo, native american art, oil rigs, wheat, scissortail flycatchers, schooners, or anything else that IS and makes oklahoma....but there is sooooo much more to this state. We just don't like the idea of those things ALWAYS representing the state and being promoted on every single corner. I totally agree - Don't NYC my OKC - but also don't take away everything else OKC has to offer and don't downplay it into a hick town.

Not sure how I feel about the article and thanks for sharing! I don't care for the picture they used at the practice facility. It definitely makes us look like a hick town with the field of grass and the grain silo in the background.

Actually, that is not a grain elevator, although it looks so. For the longest time it stored unmixed concrete. At least that is what my uncle told me.

ive never seen him around town. i would love to! i would recognize him and say hi and of for sure get my pic with him.

And those are the back of the old adams course to the left and the ice rink to the right that are on kelly. just to let people know where that is.

We are not a cosmopolitan city and never will be one...

Say what? That is an extreme statement, and I hope for the sake our city's future you're wrong.

yeah, I was surprised Matthew said that too. I have to disagree with that statement.

Just wondering who Matthew is?

OKCMallen, the one soonerguru quoted

The smallest market in the NBA??? I thought SLC,NO,MEM were all smaller!!and about not knowing who KD is PLEASE,this article is BS! empty airport and cows,OMG! I think the people around the country that read crap like this thinks OKC is a small city with no tall bldngs. and nothing to do and it makes it seem like we arent sports savy!wich is false this city is sports crazy!

not meaning to seem petty, but some mild paranoia is showing.

We have silos. We have large steel other things. We have pastures, inside the city limits no less. So do other folkds, but we seem to obsess on these things more.

Also, lots of folks in the metro area wouldn't know who KD is unless he was in uniform or with an adequate crowd that you might start making the connection and checking the memory banks. I've heard of him and seen him, sure. However, put him in a polo and slacks and plop him at a bar or a local dining spot and I could sit down next to him and not have a clue, unless he said something to bring it up or someone else approached him and mentioned it.

I don't hate bball, not at all, but I'm no more than an occasional watcher. About the same for football folks. Bradford of OU I would recognize because he reminds me of a younger version of someone I know, and as the chap I know doesn't do time travel, I'd probably notice him and then recall 'oh yeah, bet that's Bradford.'

Most folks here bouts don't seem to mob someone who is famous. Sure, some will, but by and large, it's just respectful not to assert yourself onto someone who is out and about, simply trying to be in hopes of a nice evening. And as noted, some of us can sit near a king and be none the wiser.

We definitely have the smallest TV market in the NBA.

What are you looking at for TV ratings? Everything I find we are NOT the smallest media market.

yeah, I was surprised Matthew said that too. I have to disagree with that statement.

1. Pertinent or common to the whole world: an issue of cosmopolitan import.
2. Having constituent elements from all over the world or from many different parts of the world: the ancient and cosmopolitan societies of Syria and Egypt.
3. So sophisticated as to be at home in all parts of the world or conversant with many spheres of interest: a cosmopolitan traveler.


Guys, we just don't fit the bill. We probably never will. And I'm fine with that. We can't all be Chicago, NYC, Rome, Paris, London, Tokyo. I don't want to be those, either, necessarily.

If you think that Oklahoma City will ever, ever be a "member of the world" type city, or pertinent to the whole world, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. That's doesn't mean we don't need to be as completely badass as possible and be proud of our fair city...just being realistic.

Maybe not in the strict definition of the word, but I would say we're pretty diverse.

I sat next to 3 of them at the bar at Chili's one night.

Good Lord. Don't a lot of people on here just absolutely can not stand Chili's as a decent place to go eat and/or drink?

Also, lots of folks in the metro area wouldn't know who KD is unless he was in uniform or with an adequate crowd that you might start making the connection and checking the memory banks. I've heard of him and seen him, sure. However, put him in a polo and slacks and plop him at a bar or a local dining spot and I could sit down next to him and not have a clue, unless he said something to bring it up or someone else approached him and mentioned it.

Really? The guy is 6'9" and was like 5th in the league in scoring last year. I know that the author mentioned that he goes unnoticed in OKC but I just find that odd or hard to believe, the dude is incredible. I would think he would be more recognizable. Maybe in some instances, people in OKC choose not to interrupt him when he is out. Maybe its that the Thunder is not doing more promotional stuff. They do need to find a way to get more people in our city and state watching games. Them making every televised game in HD this year will help hopefully.

However, a lot of the unfamiliar OKC citizens will begin to know who he is very shortly as I see this being a big season for him. This year he certainly looks to become an All Star for the first time.

We are what we are. The worst thing I can say about the silos and pastures is that they are charming and make for healthy living. Not one thing wrong with them. (However, I should point out that we don't really have that many silos. I'm near DC and there are a zillion silos in the countryside outside the beltway. I sure wouldn't have thought of OKC as defined by silos). The kids in OKC are luckier than so many because they have a downtown in a capital city (so you can pretty much get everything you need) and still have the country experience. Plenty of people have to choose one or the other. That you have both in OKC is an amazing advantage.

You can go to a small European city and sneer that it is dirty and backward, or you can rave about its character, history and charm. Bitch about its narrow streets or fight to preserve them. OKC is OKC. It can be made better, certainly, but all the angst and self doubt reminds me of a young girl who thinks she has to have breast augmentation to be liked.

metro, you care so much about okc, yet you dislike random things about the city we both love. It's so weird some times.

We are a bit of a hick town! Embrace it. We're a bit hickish, we're a bit cowboy, we're a lot oil and gas, and we have an nba team and deep urban revival.

You know what makes other towns seem cooler than okc?! They embrace their differences. Austin is highly liberal and weird, for instance. They embrace that. We're a little city gettin' big. We have mild accents. There are grain elevators converted into indoor climbing facilities. There are lots of undeveloped areas in the middle of our city (i.e.- green areas). We dip stuff in ranch. We like chicken fried steak. We listen to country music. We're not at the front of economic or fashion trends. We are not a cosmopolitan city and never will be one...but we can be and are great. Who the hell cares about a silo in the background; people in nyc probably find that fascinating. I don't want to dallas my okc.

We're okc. We make no apologies. And the sooner everyone gets that, we can shed this self-loathing lack of definition we've had for so damned long.

+1 +1 +1 +1

I'm never ashamed of my hometown. Never will be. OKC is a great place to live, there's plenty to do, great educational facilities exist, etc., etc.

What's wrong with silos?

Kind of an interesting house:

http://cbbac.com/Images/monte-silo-house-1.jpg

Here's a silo that was converted into an apartment building:

http://www.madphotoworld.com/2008/02/25/Apartments-In-Silo-At-Islands-Brygge.jpg

I think it was a pretty bad article. Looking down the nose at Oklahoma City in several ways. Let HIM know what you think! Jonathan Abrams of the NYT is active on Twitter: Jonathan Abrams (Jpdabrams) on Twitter (http://twitter.com/JpdAbrams)

There's no such thing as bad publicity...

1. Pertinent or common to the whole world: an issue of cosmopolitan import.
2. Having constituent elements from all over the world or from many different parts of the world: the ancient and cosmopolitan societies of Syria and Egypt.
3. So sophisticated as to be at home in all parts of the world or conversant with many spheres of interest: a cosmopolitan traveler.


Guys, we just don't fit the bill. We probably never will. And I'm fine with that. We can't all be Chicago, NYC, Rome, Paris, London, Tokyo. I don't want to be those, either, necessarily.

If you think that Oklahoma City will ever, ever be a "member of the world" type city, or pertinent to the whole world, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. That's doesn't mean we don't need to be as completely badass as possible and be proud of our fair city...just being realistic.


You're not being realistic, you're being pessimistic. You're also apparently not open to the possibility that we could be cosmopolitan.

If our economy grows, we continue to prosper, and become a more interesting place to live and destination for tourists, we WOULD become more cosmopolitan. Frankly, OKC is much more cosmopolitan than it was 10 years ago.

There are many smaller cities than NYC that are cosmopolitan, like Portland and Austin, for example. I see no reason we cannot aspire to those cities.

What you're saying sounds very depressing. I know you don't mean to come across that way.

But you have to look at it this way: young people are deciding whether to take a chance on OKC improving and becoming more big city, or moving elsewhere "because it will never happen here." Your statement, though you may not mean it this way, is an open invitation for a lot of people to leave.

But you have to look at it this way: young people are deciding whether to take a chance on OKC improving and becoming more big city, or moving elsewhere "because it will never happen here." Your statement, though you may not mean it this way, is an open invitation for a lot of people to leave.

So all "young people" want to live in a big city? I- and plenty of people I know- chose to move to OKC because of its size, atmosphere, attitude, and- get this- culture. I've lived in big cities. I didn't like the expense, the traffic, or the people. I'd much rather live here, save my money, enjoy looking at the cattle and open fields, etc. Matter of fact, the last few times I've visited friends in more "cosmopolitan" places, I've spent most of the trip being amazed at how lucky I am to not have to deal with the headaches they encounter.

Just my opinion.

We definitely have the smallest TV market in the NBA.

^^^^^^by TV market size-OKC is ranked 45th in The U.S. w/ 694,030 households and a % of the total U.S. share of 0.604% and Memphis ranks in at # 50. w/ 667,660 and a share of 0.581% and even smaller is N.O. w/633,220 households an a 0.551 % share of U.S. households!----and when it comes to population of Metro populations of NBA cities OKC is still not last! Memphis and New Orleans are still smaller! I am not trying to be anal about this, I just want people to know we are not THE smallest market, but ONE of them! --but none of the articles I've read distinguish that!

We definitely have the smallest TV market in the NBA.

No, actually Memphis does. And they have the smallest population of all NBA markets. But you don't see NYT doing stories on the peculiarities of Memphis, either.

See, we don't obsess until an outsider comes to OKC hunting down pastures and cattle and writes about it unnecessarliy. That gets really old.

> Really? The guy is 6'9" and was like 5th in the league in scoring last year.

yes, really. Out of uniform, he is a tall reasonably muscular, without being beefy, young black man. More than a tad taller than many other similarly built young men of his age bracket, but not the only very tall young man in town. As I don't come across folks who top my own height regularly, if we're both standing, yeah, I'd likely assume a bballer for some team.

Though if seated, height is mostly out of the equation. But even if seeing him enter, is the young man entering KD with the Thunder, a college player for OCU, SNU, OU, OSU, TU or a player up from Texas, or down from KS on a family visit, or a player from any other location, an actor, a current or former player passing through from wherevahville, or just a young man in sales who gets tired of being asked if he plays bball, even though he never has due to some non-obvious condition.

If you don't know his face, like myself or many, many others, the tall chap at the bar or the next table can be any of the above as easily as he can be Durant.

I know it is Oklahoma, but it is possible for folks to not have an athlete facial recognition program stored in one's noggin. Semi-sorta sucks if the athlete is wanting to be noticed, but it provides a minor blessing if an athlete just wants to chill out of the limelight.

If you think that Oklahoma City will ever, ever be a "member of the world" type city, or pertinent to the whole world, I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed.

That's a dangerous assumption to make. Can you predict the future? People 19 years ago said that Oklahoma City... scratch that. Let me enumerate the "never" statements I've heard over the years regarding Oklahoma City...

"Oklahoma City will never have professional sports."
"Oklahoma City will never be able to support pro sports."
"MAPS will never work. Don't buy a wooden nickel!"
"Oklahoma City will never have money like it did in the early eighties."
"Oklahoma City will never recover from the oil bust."
"The Skirvin is going to get demolished. Mark my words."
"There will never be water in that river. Who'd want to go down there anyway?"
"Tattooing will never be legal in Oklahoma. Too many conservatives."
"Casino gambling will never pass. This state's too conservative."
"The lottery doesn't stand a chance in Oklahoma. This is the bible belt."

I mean... do you see where I am going with this? These were actual remarks made by people from the 1990s... friends in my high school, relatives and conversations I've overheard.

Not saying that Oklahoma City will be world class or never will be world class. I'm just saying never say never. You cannot predict the future. That's being a realist. Did anyone in 1985 think Dubai, U.A.E. was going to have dozens of supertall futuristic skyscrapers that are all engineering marvels? Or that Phoenix would be a burgh larger than Dallas proper by the year 2000?

So all "young people" want to live in a big city? I- and plenty of people I know- chose to move to OKC because of its size, atmosphere, attitude, and- get this- culture. I've lived in big cities. I didn't like the expense, the traffic, or the people. I'd much rather live here, save my money, enjoy looking at the cattle and open fields, etc. Matter of fact, the last few times I've visited friends in more "cosmopolitan" places, I've spent most of the trip being amazed at how lucky I am to not have to deal with the headaches they encounter.

Just my opinion.

Current demographic trends are undeniable in this regard. The answer is a resounding yes. I spoke to a young commercial leasing agent yesterday, who said, "I just wish Oklahoma City had more big-city things to offer. I'm leaving as soon as I graduate."

It's really sad the amount of talent we lose every year to bigger cities.

By the way, by "big city" I didn't mean a city of 10 million people. I'm talking about a city with a little more diversity of options that one might find in a big city. *AHEM* A slightly more cosmopolitan city.

It is true that a lot of youngsters leave. I respectfully suggest that that should be balanced with an investigation of how many return. I have repeatedly seen where people return to Oklahoma after a few years away, reportedly at a much higher rate than those who leave bigger cities. I can tell you that I never, ever appreciated OKC until I had the opportunity to see how the big cities live, i.e., DC. As a younger person, it was exciting. At a certain point, it is just not worth the extreme hassle. Oklahoma is like how you feel when you sink into your own bed at the end of a rough day.

Though if seated, height is mostly out of the equation. But even if seeing him enter, is the young man entering KD with the Thunder, a college player for OCU, SNU, OU, OSU, TU or a player up from Texas, or down from KS on a family visit, or a player from any other location, an actor, a current or former player passing through from wherevahville, or just a young man in sales who gets tired of being asked if he plays bball, even though he never has due to some non-obvious condition.
Well, if he hadn't of left UT after one season then he would be headed into his senior year here in Austin. So I can see where some might think he would be a college player since he hasn't been marketed (and therefore over exposed) like some other players.

It is true that a lot of youngsters leave. I respectfully suggest that that should be balanced with an investigation of how many return. I have repeatedly seen where people return to Oklahoma after a few years away, reportedly at a much higher rate than those who leave bigger cities. I can tell you that I never, ever appreciated OKC until I had the opportunity to see how the big cities live, i.e., DC. As a younger person, it was exciting. At a certain point, it is just not worth the extreme hassle. Oklahoma is like how you feel when you sink into your own bed at the end of a rough day.

Don't you still live in a big city?

Regardless, my comment was regarding the cosmopolitan aspects of cities, not necessarily their size. I wouldn't particularly want to live where you live, either.

Current demographic trends are undeniable in this regard. The answer is a resounding yes. I spoke to a young commercial leasing agent yesterday, who said, "I just wish Oklahoma City had more big-city things to offer. I'm leaving as soon as I graduate."

It's really sad the amount of talent we lose every year to bigger cities.

By the way, by "big city" I didn't mean a city of 10 million people. I'm talking about a city with a little more diversity of options that one might find in a big city.

"Young talent" doesn't just necessarily pick up and go wherever. OKC loses a lot of recent graduates because it doesn't have the job market to retain them. I know it's anecdotal, but I'd honestly estimate that at least three quarters of the newly minted engineers and scientists I know from OU and OSU moved to Texas after graduation (predominantly Houston and Austin). Having said that, I also know several of them would have preferred to stay in OKC or Tulsa after graduating, but just couldn't find a good job in either city. Not all young people share the opinion of your friend--OKC is "cosmopolitan" enough for many. A perceived lack of "big city things to offer" is not the primary factor driving this flux of new graduates out of Oklahoma.

A perceived lack of "big city things to offer" is not the primary factor driving this flux of new graduates out of Oklahoma.


I'm sure you have lots of hard data to back this up. Forget it. Let's just settle for being a second-tier city. We'll never be sophisticated. If people want something more, they'll have to move. At least it's cheap and a great place to raise a family, the only qualities of life aspects anyone cares about. Oh, and there's plenty of surface parking, a wide variety of chain restaurant selections, a no traffic to speak of. Nirvana!

Why even bother with MAPS? OKC is the greatest city on the planet and God knows we wouldn't want it to change or become a little more sophisticated. In fact, why even post on this forum? After tonight, I've learned it's fruitless to hope OKC will ever become more "big city," and if it were, everyone would want to leave because of the headaches and traffic, and it wouldn't even help us retain our young talent.

Wow! Now I'm liberated. There's no point posting here anymore if our city should stay exactly the same. Instead, I'm going to learn to enjoy grain silos, that's really who we are and all we will ever be.

I'm sure you have lots of hard data to back this up.

Do you know what "anecdotal" means? It was my opinion, formulated from my own experience.

Moreover, if you're going to get on my case about it, why didn't you set the precedent of providing "hard data" to back your argument when you said:


Current demographic trends are undeniable in this regard.

In regards to the rest of your hyperbolic tirade, read my post again carefully: nowhere did I say that my friends think OKC is an ideal place to live. I agree that improving the "cosmopolitan" feel of the city is important for attracting people from out of state and retaining a perhaps a larger fraction of these in-state graduates. But, is it impossible for you to accept that others don't value the same things in a city that you evidently do?

We definitely have the smallest TV market in the NBA.


^^^^^^by TV market size-OKC is ranked 45th in The U.S. w/ 694,030 households and a % of the total U.S. share of 0.604% and Memphis ranks in at # 50. w/ 667,660 and a share of 0.581% and even smaller is N.O. w/633,220 households an a 0.551 % share of U.S. households!----and when it comes to population of Metro populations of NBA cities OKC is still not last! Memphis and New Orleans are still smaller! I am not trying to be anal about this, I just want people to know we are not THE smallest market, but ONE of them! --but none of the articles I've read distinguish that!

Hey, I did that research too; and you're correct.

I'd also add that OKC is a competitive TV market. Your TV stations really do work harder for their audiences. I worked at a couple of your TV stations in the 90's and the quality of your newscasts easily rival shows from markets in the teens and 20's. (The production value needed to be higher, but that was more a function of progressively cheaper ownership allowing their stations to fall behind the technological curve. I hope they have reversed this trend.) The people working off air are as talented and skilled as any I've ever encountered in 25 years as a TV Bedouin. As TV markets go, it’s pretty good. I’d return to OKC to work, but I’d rather stay put - I’ve moved around enough for one lifetime.

Eh, I think it's good to move around some when you're young whether you live in OKC or NYC, LA, Chicago, DC, etc. The people I know in OKC that seem the most worldly, educated, and 'cosmopolitan' lived in other places before moving here. A good friend I work with moved here from Austin where he grew up and went to college to try something different. As long as OKC has good jobs it will keep growing, hopefully in a smarter way than it has in the past.

Don't you still live in a big city?

Regardless, my comment was regarding the cosmopolitan aspects of cities, not necessarily their size. I wouldn't particularly want to live where you live, either.

We have a home in OKC and are in the process of moving back, full-time. Please god, by the end of the year.

Two of my kids live in Manhattan and one in Brooklyn. One has lived in Manhattan for ten years. They've all loved it but I doubt they'll stay, especially when the babies start coming. At a certain point, being able to stay up all night and go to a show or a restaurant is pretty immaterial when you start getting tired after a long day's work at around 10:00. And you can visit the museums. And you frequently start appreciating local or community efforts a bit more as you get older.

My daughter said something about a recent trip to New Zealand. I asked her if she liked Christ Church and she said it was sort of boring - "the kind of city you want to live in but not go to on vacation." She and her husband have traveled all around the world, literally - it's their thing.

You're not being realistic, you're being pessimistic. You're also apparently not open to the possibility that we could be cosmopolitan.

If our economy grows, we continue to prosper, and become a more interesting place to live and destination for tourists, we WOULD become more cosmopolitan. Frankly, OKC is much more cosmopolitan than it was 10 years ago.

There are many smaller cities than NYC that are cosmopolitan, like Portland and Austin, for example. I see no reason we cannot aspire to those cities.

What you're saying sounds very depressing. I know you don't mean to come across that way.

But you have to look at it this way: young people are deciding whether to take a chance on OKC improving and becoming more big city, or moving elsewhere "because it will never happen here." Your statement, though you may not mean it this way, is an open invitation for a lot of people to leave.

I am a young professional. I spend almost all my time in OKC. I spend all my money here. I'm exactly the person you're talking about. And you know what- there are a zillion reasons for someone my age to leave OKC for brighter lights. If you don't hate big cities, spend 5 minutes in NYC and you're ready to leave OKC. (Not so much Dallas, but you get the idea...) However, this is home, I love it here, and I make my living here. So here I am, promoting and building our city as I can.

We aren't and never will be cosmopolitan. We will never be "relevant to the world" in a general sense. Better to deal with that, love our city, and make it as great as it can be instead of constantly having a perception of "not good enough."

We can become "more" cosmopolitan. We will never BE cosmopolitan unless something ridiculously, unreasonably unforeseeable happens. And I'm fine with that.

I wish more people were "comfortable in their own skin" in regards to a realistic view of who OKC is and where we're going. San Antonio isn't a cosmopolitan city and people LOVE it. I think that's the level we want to shoot for right now.

That's a dangerous assumption to make. Can you predict the future? People 19 years ago said that Oklahoma City... scratch that. Let me enumerate the "never" statements I've heard over the years regarding Oklahoma City...

"Oklahoma City will never have professional sports."
"Oklahoma City will never be able to support pro sports."
"MAPS will never work. Don't buy a wooden nickel!"
"Oklahoma City will never have money like it did in the early eighties."
"Oklahoma City will never recover from the oil bust."
"The Skirvin is going to get demolished. Mark my words."
"There will never be water in that river. Who'd want to go down there anyway?"
"Tattooing will never be legal in Oklahoma. Too many conservatives."
"Casino gambling will never pass. This state's too conservative."
"The lottery doesn't stand a chance in Oklahoma. This is the bible belt."

I mean... do you see where I am going with this? These were actual remarks made by people from the 1990s... friends in my high school, relatives and conversations I've overheard.

Not saying that Oklahoma City will be world class or never will be world class. I'm just saying never say never. You cannot predict the future. That's being a realist. Did anyone in 1985 think Dubai, U.A.E. was going to have dozens of supertall futuristic skyscrapers that are all engineering marvels? Or that Phoenix would be a burgh larger than Dallas proper by the year 2000?

I think in 1985 right after the energy crisis and into the oil bust, you could predict that oil exporting nations are in a great financial position on a going-forward basis.

Also, we haven't proved we can support a pro franchise yet. I believe we will, but one season doesn't count as supporting it.

Saying OKC will be on the same level as Paris some day and saying we'll never dam a river are pretty different things.

We aren't and never will be cosmopolitan.

This is conjecture on your part. Pure and simple. You actually have no idea what will happen in the future.

And by the way, many people would consider OKC cosmopolitan. We have international visitors. We are attracting immigrants from around the world.

No, we're not Rome, but we're not Wichita and Amarillo, either.

And in many ways, OKC is more cosmopolitan than San Antonio, having spent time there on business.

Saying OKC will be on the same level as Paris some day and saying we'll never dam a river are pretty different things.

This is stupid. NO ONE is saying this. OKC does not have to be Paris or NYC to be cosmopolitan.

I notice you ignored my comments about Portland and Austin.

Good Lord. Don't a lot of people on here just absolutely can not stand Chili's as a decent place to go eat and/or drink?

Actually I can not stand it. But a friend was in town and that's what she wanted for dinner. I tried to push her in another direction towards something locally owned, but she really wanted it and I obliged as a good host. I had a beer. And shared their appetizers while she ate. We sat at the bar to see the tv. They were meeting more people there and it was a convenient location for everyone to gather before heading out for a night on the town.

This is stupid. NO ONE is saying this. OKC does not have to be Paris or NYC to be cosmopolitan.

I notice you ignored my comments about Portland and Austin.

You're stupid if you think it's stupid. More namecalling! yay! :congrats:

Paris and NYC are cosmopolitan cities. Austin is NOT "relevant to the world." IO doubt Portland would be considered that either. Seattle is getting closer to cosmopolitan.

Having SOME diversity is not the same as "cosmopolitan." I'm afraid you don't understand what the word means.