View Full Version : Can Anyone Place A Home Like This One?



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Doug Loudenback
09-08-2009, 05:28 PM
I'm exchanging e-mail with a lady from Shelby, NC, which began with her comment in my main Mesta Park article:


Hi. I'm the resident curator for an historic property in Shelby, NC that was built in 1921 from plans of Aurelius-Swanson Co, an architectural firm in Oklahoma City. It is a spanish style bungalow named El Nido. You can see pictures of it on Preservation NC website or National Park Service. I understand that there is at least one house in Oklahoma City built on similar plan. I was told that it is on Classen Blvd but I've taken virtual tour of both Blvd and Drive as well as your Mesta Park tour (very well done) and can't find anything that looks like it. Do you know of any similar house in Oklahoma City.
Actually, Aurelius-Swanson Co. wasn't an architectural firm, it was more into construction and retail selling of roofing materials and such and I found several references to the company in the Oklahoman's archives. But I found no "fit."

Here's a photo of the Shelby, NC, property which is called "El Nido":

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/misc/El_Nido.jpg

I've told her that it looks very familiar and that it could easily be located in Heritage Hills or Mesta Park. One address that she got from somewhere was 3909 Classen Blvd which is now a 2-story office building at the southwest corner of 39th & Classen. I did find a loosely similar home a couple of blocks north but it had too many dissimilarities to be a match.

I've driven through the Putnam Heights area (near and southwest of the last stated address), Mesta Park, and Heritage Hills (including Classen Drive) and I cannot locate a house which is very similar to El Nido so I'm coming up empty handed.

Can anyone identify a home that looks like the above, built in the late teens-to-1920-ish? It needs to be an airplane bungalow, white stucco, red Spanish tile roof, beveled/trapezoid pillars or whatever they are called.

I still say it looks very familiar. Perhaps I remember it from somewhere on Classen Blvd on a property that now contains an office building, but I'm just wildly guessing about that.

kevinpate
09-08-2009, 05:36 PM
kinda sorta reminds me of one just off Lincoln, south of 18th a ways, east side, but only kinda sorta, and barely that. Sorry.

Nice though

Doug Loudenback
09-08-2009, 05:44 PM
That's a good thought ... fits the time period and I hadn't thought of that area. I don't recall if airplane bungalows were/are there ... the homes were more robust and expansive, as I recall, to be called bungalows. But, hey, who can say? It's certainly worth checking out.

flintysooner
09-08-2009, 06:53 PM
I remember a house like that. I think it might have been in that 36th to 39th and Classen area.

Steve
09-08-2009, 07:50 PM
I've seen it, just can't recall where.

Karried
09-08-2009, 09:15 PM
Sent a message to Richard Mize so we'll see if he has any info.

ktybug
09-08-2009, 09:21 PM
I took a class of pre-teens to tour some of these homes. I can remember that we started at the Harn Homestead and this home was not far from that. Maybe 10-15 minutes. I am thinking in Heritage Hills area. I am sure you know that the entire catalog is published at urbanreviewstl.com. I love these homes and always think of how glamerous a time it was. I am sure the home you are looking for is in close proximity to a similar home that was owned by a silent picture star, a name I can not recall at this time. Hope this is some help.

Generals64
09-08-2009, 09:26 PM
Try on 36th st. (N.W.) about 2 blocks east and one block north. Have seen a house like it and i think it's in that area......There is a house similar in the Nichols Hills area....due east of the Golf and Country club......

rondvu
09-08-2009, 09:59 PM
I remember a house like that. I think it might have been in that 36th to 39th and Classen area.

Upon seeing the photo I too thought Classen Blvd between 36th and 39th and it was on the west side of the street.

mugofbeer
09-08-2009, 10:05 PM
There is a similar one, I think its on NW 19th in the 3300 block, north side of the street.

Martin
09-09-2009, 06:14 AM
^
you may be on to something

how about this place (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=35.489009,-97.571809&spn=0,359.997728&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=35.48901,-97.571918&panoid=ZBFs63M42JJ9hLO3A2ivBg&cbp=12,187.33,,0,-4.03) which sits on the 3100 block of nw 19th... just east of 19th & land on the south side of the road?

-M

rebeccalove
09-09-2009, 07:06 AM
I'm the lady from Shelby who contacted Doug with the inquiry and I appreciate all your participation. I see a lot of similarities in the photo of 3100 block of 19th. One can enter the porch/veranda of El Nido from either side and the OKC house has larger second story rather than just the two rooms on second story at El Nido. Otherwise it looks very much like it. I'll try to get the copy of the old photo that PNC has of house in OKC to see if this is the same one they knew about. I haven't had a chance to look at the other suggestions but will try to do so later today. Thanks again, Becky

Doug Loudenback
09-09-2009, 07:12 AM
Here's a twist ... I said that the roof tiles were Spanish tile, and by that I meant clay. They are not. Becky (the lady in North Carolina) says that they are made of tin and are tiled together.

metro
09-09-2009, 07:47 AM
Doug, isn't it possible the stucco could have been painted or roof tiles replaced since the 1920's?

Doug Loudenback
09-09-2009, 09:54 AM
Sure, Metro, anything's possible. But the trapezoidal or pyramid or whatever-they-are-called pillars would be easy to spot and unlikely to have been changed.

Anyway, this morning, I closely drove through the Putnam Heights area in the vicinity of NW 35th-38th & Classen, the Lincoln Terrace area east of Lincoln, south of the Capitol, the Gatewood area, west of the Gatewood area, and NW 19th and 20th from Pennsylvania westbound, and, sadly, came up empty handed.

I really hadn't noticed before, but the "tin" roofs really aren't all that rare, I just hadn't noticed before. The closest match (and it isn't that close) was at 3132 NW 19th, the one that Martin spotted via google street view ...

Click the pic for larger ...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/misc/3132nw19s.jpg (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/misc/3132nw19.jpg)

I'm now best guessing that the address that Becky had at the southwest corner of Classen & NW 39th, 3909 Classen, where the 2 story office building is today, may well have been correct.

County assessor photo for today's building at the above address:

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2666/R054852772001zA.jpg

The assessor's on-line record shows the above property was built in 1982.

USG '60
09-09-2009, 02:08 PM
They bulldozed a dozen or two of great old airplane and Craftsman bungalows along classen in that area back in the early 80s. Some were falliing in while others where in pretty good shape. The one above and this one at 44th are about all that are left, 44th and N Classen, Oklahoma City,OK - Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBF_enUS295US295&q=44th+and+N+Classen%2c+Oklahoma+City%2cOK). The treasure you seek is probably long gone.

metro
09-09-2009, 02:29 PM
Doug. Just curious but what is the curators intent on findine the twin in OKC?

gen70
09-09-2009, 02:33 PM
There is a house in Nichols Hills that I did some electrical work on years ago that is in the Spanish style. I'am gonna get on Google street view and see if I can find it, if so I will post. I love that Spanish style architecture. I do remember the roof tiles were clay and had moss growing on them which I thought looked cool.

Doug Loudenback
09-09-2009, 04:10 PM
Doug. Just curious but what is the curators intent on findine the twin in OKC?
She's just being a good curator, putting her own building's history together.

Doug Loudenback
09-09-2009, 04:11 PM
There is a house in Nichols Hills that I did some electrical work on years ago that is in the Spanish style. I'am gonna get on Google street view and see if I can find it, if so I will post. I love that Spanish style architecture. I do remember the roof tiles were clay and had moss growing on them which I thought looked cool.
There is no shortage of the Spanish style homes around town, gobs of them. But finding one that is a close match for the airplane bungalow that the North Carolina curator is interested in is a different matter.

gen70
09-10-2009, 11:54 AM
There is no shortage of the Spanish style homes around town, gobs of them. But finding one that is a close match for the airplane bungalow that the North Carolina curator is interested in is a different matter. Just thought I'd see if this was the one.

Doug Loudenback
09-10-2009, 01:26 PM
Thanks, gen70, but since the house you're thinking of is in Nichols Hills, the house being searched for wouldn't fit, either as to timing or style, unless there is a modest blungalow area in Nichols Hills that I've missed ... possible.

rondvu
09-10-2009, 02:55 PM
I am thinking that if the home was on Classen it's chances of surviving is extremely thin. After looking at the home on 19th and again on Classen perhaps I stuck on seeing something similar, not to say that the house did not exist. I also have hear that Carey place was an exact replica of a street in Venice Beach CA. In my neighborhood I have found twins of two houses, but they are also in OKC.

Doug Loudenback
09-10-2009, 03:00 PM
Becky says that in her parent organization's file there is apparently a photo of the Okc house with an address noted on it (perhaps on the back) showing the 3909 Classen address. I'm not sure if she has seen it but hopefully she will gain access to it, scan it, and share it with us. It is still stuck in my mind that I have seen the house before.

Martin
09-10-2009, 04:28 PM
i enjoy this kind of thing... kind of like detective work.

working off the assumption that 3909 classen is our mark, i found that:

one a.h. emenhiser lived at that address in 1918. emenhiser was secretery-treasurer of rising star oil company as of 1916.

one dr. j.g. binkley owned the property in 1933. he requested rezoning of the property in 1948. his request was to change his 8 lots on both sides of classen from nw 38th to nw 39th from single dwelling to multiple dwelling. apparently, his request had been previously denied.

between 1933 and 1944, the binkley family hosted numerous events at their home such as teas and family reunions.

in an article dated 3/13/1960, the oklahoman has a short bio of dr. binkley. the article states that he moved to his current residence (3909 classen) from capitol hill around 25 years prior. one cool detail in this bio suggests that it was binkley that came up with the idea that walker and robinson should have an underpass rather than an overpass across 'the tracks there'

in any event, given the status of the families living in this dwelling and the scale of some of the events hosted, i'm not so sure that the bungalow pictured fits at 3909 classen. i didn't find any pictures providing the proverbial 'smoking gun', though.

i've scribbled down dates of some of the articles if anybody is interested.

-M

Doug Loudenback
09-10-2009, 05:14 PM
Martin, that is great stuff! Part of Becky's original comment in my main Mesta Park article which prompted all this research was this:


We were told it was called the Dr. J.G Brinkley House but don't know from what period that dates. I thought perhaps he had been on faculty of Epworth Medical College or the Oklahoma City University but can't find any information about him either.
My own search in the Oklahoman's archives found nothing useful under the name "Brinkley" but maybe I didn't look hard enough or maybe I ended my search too soon.

From what you've found, though, it looks like YOU may well have come up with come up with the smoking gun, as you put it, all things considered!

Sure ... post article dates, anything, I'm sure that this will all be useful to her. Probably, I'll later put together an article myself ... something like, "What do Shelby, North Carolina, and Oklahoma City have in common?" with a focus on the popularity of bungalows in the mid-1910s to whenever it ended.

YOU DID GREAT! I'll e-mail Becky in case she is not reading this thread.

ON EDIT: Martin, you've used 2 spellings ... Brinkley and Binkley ... which is correct for your finds?

Martin
09-10-2009, 05:27 PM
huh... i would've figured on a bigger house sitting on all that land! glad i could be of some help. the name is 'j.g. binkley' with no 'r'

His bio starts on the front page of the 3/13/1960 oklahoman and continues on a subsequent page. there's a picture of him on the front page and one of him and his wife where the article is continued. that second pic is an interior shot... i'd presume it's inside the house in question, but the shot is way too tight to be sure.

the rest are mostly society page entries...
a.h. emenhiser 2/7/1918

j.g. binkley 4/25/1933, 12/25/1940, 11/24/1944, 2/17/1948 (where binkley is trying to zone the property for apartments)

there are many other for binkley... they really got around.

-M

Prunepicker
09-10-2009, 06:21 PM
Doug,
I immediately thought of a house on N. Classen Blvd. but a little farther north.
Maybe 45th or so and on the west side of the street.

rondvu
09-10-2009, 06:25 PM
[QUOTE=mmm;253703]i enjoy this kind of thing... kind of like detective work.

working off the assumption that 3909 classen is our mark, i found that:

one a.h. emenhiser lived at that address in 1918. emenhiser was secretery-treasurer of rising star oil company as of 1916.

one dr. j.g. binkley owned the property in 1933. he requested rezoning of the property in 1948. his request was to change his 8 lots on both sides of classen from nw 38th to nw 39th from single dwelling to multiple dwelling. apparently, his request had been previously denied.

between 1933 and 1944, the binkley family hosted numerous events at their home such as teas and family reunions.

in an article dated 3/13/1960, the oklahoman has a short bio of dr. binkley. the article states that he moved to his current residence (3909 classen) from capitol hill around 25 years prior. one cool detail in this bio suggests that it was binkley that came up with the idea that walker and robinson should have an underpass rather than an overpass across 'the tracks there'

in any event, given the status of the families living in this dwelling and the scale of some of the events hosted, i'm not so sure that the bungalow pictured fits at 3909 classen. i didn't find any pictures providing the proverbial 'smoking gun', though.

i've scribbled down dates of some of the articles if anybody is interested.

Cool stuff, how did you find all that info? Per my handy dandy 1951 City Directory I found on page 100: Jas G (Harriet G) city phys Okla City Health Dept h 3909 Classen blvd

Martin
09-10-2009, 06:32 PM
^
anyone can search archived copies of the oklahoman online using a library card @ www.metrolibrary.org (http://www.metrolibrary.org)... it's really useful for digging up old info!

-M

Prunepicker
09-10-2009, 06:58 PM
anyone can search archived copies of the oklahoman online using a library
card @ www.metrolibrary.org (http://www.metrolibrary.org)... it's really useful for digging up old info!
-M
That's good to know! Another AK-47 in my arsenal of information gathering!
Thanks!

rebeccalove
09-10-2009, 07:18 PM
Wow! You folks are really blazing trails on the detective work. I played with spellings of that name but didn't think to leave out the "r". Thanks for all you're doing. I didn't have time today to get to PNC office here to get the photo of the "Dr. J.G. B(r)inkley house" but I will scan and post as soon as I can. Also try to find out where our photo came from. Very exciting findings.
Becky

centralparker
09-10-2009, 09:44 PM
In searching the land records, the Emenhisers had a mortgage with Aurelius-Swanson Company for one of the lots now included in 3909 N Classen. Doesn't say anything specific about the house, but thought that might be a helpful clue.

Not sure if this link will work, but I'll give it a try. Here's the image of the mortgage record. (http://landrecords.oklahomacounty.org/landrecords/deeds/ActiveX_Viewer.asp?MyAction=1&pDocnum=1917894038A&ReferingPage=/landrecords/deeds/Results_03.asp?lCurrResultsPage=2)

Doug Loudenback
09-10-2009, 10:05 PM
Thanks, centralparker, that works great.

Earlier, I sent an e-mail to Becky:


Becky,

Martin (mmm) at OkcTalk has come up with some important information at [this address omitted]. Check it out! You'll be glad.
I've received 2 replies ... I'll post both below:


Thanks for your continued efforts. I've had long and hectic day (might otherwise describe as helluva day) and just now getting time to check. I haven't looked at Martin's posting yet, I'm holding it out in anticipation instead of dessert. Thanks for the commission report of Aurelius-Swanson. I talked to Ted Alexander, the regional director of Pres. NC today when we tag-teamed the Daughter of Am. Revolution lunch meeting and tour of El Nido since I couldn't get away from work as I expected. I did tell the D.A.R. folks about our great assistance from friends in OKC. I'll try to get the photo tomorrow. It's at his office. He is also mayor of our lovely city and sort of hard to catch sometimes. Sorry for delay on that when you are all digging and coming up with stuff everyday. Becky
... and then ...


Wow! If only I had played with that name a little more. It's Binkley, not Brinkley. This is so cool! I joined the OkcTalk and posted the first thing ok but last night I tried to reply. I know there's lag time for new folks to be monitored but it didn't seem like it went so I tried again after it wasn't there in a few hours. Neither of my posts are there today so maybe I need to pay the 4.95 to skip the montioring. Anyway, I'll try again but please let folks know how much I appreciate what they're doing.

Also Martin mentioned the city directories and you sent me something from ancestry.com. I have been using that site and city directories to try to trace another question we have about El Nido and the Gibbs family. This is sort of a romantic but sad story that caught the hearts of the two volunteers who did most of the initial work after Miss Gibbs died. She left diaries and letters. One box of letters from her sweetheart of 10 years starting in late 20s or early thirties. A romance that was put on hold because of the depression and its effect on family fortunes and her sweetheart's desire to meet his ambitions before taking her from her beloved El Nido. The last letter was in late 1940 when he is leaving Asheville ( about 90 miles west of Shelby) for Tennessee to work for the TVA. Giving up on his own law practice. No more letters and we can find very few traces of him. One mention in his mother's obituatry in 1960s. Another death notice in Georgia that may be him (same age and from Asheville NC and same initials and last name--he went by middle name). North Carolina has death certificates online for free but other states must pay. I'm sending off for that info. But those city directories really are helpful in tracking someone. Better than the census since those are not all online yet.

Becky

Doug Loudenback
09-11-2009, 02:24 AM
After looking through the Oklahoman's archives to zoom in on Martin's finds, I did a little more internet looking about the Shelby NC property, and ran across this about Becky, the person making the inquiry, from Historic Shelby home welcomes new curator | home, historic, north - Local News - The Star Online : The Newspaper of Cleveland County (http://www.shelbystar.com/news/home-38972-historic-north.html)


Historic Shelby home welcomes new curator
Friday, May 8 2009, 12:50 pm
Jackie Bridges

SHELBY - Becky Love, a physician who cared for former El Nido homeowner Evelyn Ray Gibbs, has been selected to become resident curator of the historic Mission-style home now owned by Preservation North Carolina.

As resident curator, Love will be responsible for rehabilitation and restoration work to the home's interior in return for a long-term lease on the property. Preservation North Carolina will continue to care for the grounds and exterior of the historic home, says PNC Southwest District Director Ted Alexander.

"Out of all the people who contacted us expressing interest in serving as resident curator, Becky was the obvious choice," Alexander says. "She has stated a desire to periodically make the home open to the public. She has a background of doing historic renovation work on a previous home and, of course, she has a strong connection to Ray Gibbs."

An informal ceremony marking the signing of an agreement was held on Friday at El Nido. May marks National Historic Preservation month.

Gibbs, a painter and music aficionado, lived almost all of her life at El Nido, which her parents, longtime Shelby residents, Dr. E.W. and Maude Gibbs, built in 1921. Today the house is among the best examples remaining of a Southern-built Spanish Mission/California-style bungalow and a contributing structure in the Central Shelby National Register Historic District.

The home and its contents were left in the care of PNC by Gibbs, who died in 2007 at age 92. Preservation North Carolina began looking for a resident curator for the house in 2008.

About Preservation North Carolina

Since 1939, PNC has protected and promoted hundreds of buildings and landscapes important to the diverse heritage of North Carolina by identifying, purchasing and reselling them through its highly effective Endangered Properties Program. It also promotes preservation through its stewardship properties, educational programs, public recognition program, DVDs and publications. PNC is supported through the generosity of more than 4,000 members.
Very nice, Becky, if you are reading. It's great to see a very fine piece of history in good and caring hands. Your persistence in tracing your property's roots back to its Oklahoma City connection reflects upon the seriousness with which you take your role, not only as a caretaker but as an illuminator, if that is a word. Information from Miss Gibbs's diary and letters that you related presented quite a story, perhaps bittersweet, about your former patient, very touching indeed.

As to the Oklahoma City twin, and if the 3909 Classen property be that twin as it is likely emerging to be, I also found that, after the death of Dr. J.G. Binkley on October 30, 1963, a surviving son, Dr. Samuel Binkley, applied to rezone the 3909 Classen property to restricted commercial in October 1973. I didn't find the disposition of that application, but either it or another was approved since the new commercial property began being advertised as the "Classen Central" in May 1982.

Doug Loudenback
09-16-2009, 12:11 PM
Becky is unable to post here for some reason, so I'll paste our last e-mail below so that you'll know her appreciation for helping:


Thanks, Becky,

Sorry that you had trouble posting at OkcTalk. I'll post your reply below.
Doug


rebeccalove@XXX wrote:
Well, don't be too disappointed about the columns--I could be wrong; the copy of the photo is very dark on that part. I'm going to try to find the original photo. I saw that post on OkcTalk thread. I tried to post a reply with my general thanks and plans for including this information in an exhibit later on but once again it didn't seem to work. I'm registered and I'm logging in and I got that first posting to go but when I hit "post reply" on the later ones it goes back to the registration page and doesn't give any acknowledgment. I will include your name and the OkcTalk thread group in any references for exhibits this information is included in. Maybe sometime I'll have opportunity to visit OKC and see some of these homes myself. Becky

Steve
09-16-2009, 12:47 PM
Doug, contact Classen Beautiful and see if they have any history...

decepticobra
09-16-2009, 01:17 PM
theres an interesting looking house in midwest city in the same neighborhood as heritage park mall. it has an asian motif to it. its located on the corner of sunvalley and glenoaks.

FRISKY
09-16-2009, 03:53 PM
Becky is unable to post here for some reason, After 5-posts they will show without being held in que until they are approved by a moderator.

Doug Loudenback
11-01-2009, 12:52 AM
I've received another e-mail from Rebecca Love and she asked me to pass it along to you guys, too, which I am doing with this post, except that I'm inserting images where appropriate. She sent a scan she'd made from a page in a booklet of some type which had copies of 2 photos affixed. I've cropped out the white space on that page and resized the images a little and am including them as inserts to her message, below.


Hi. I finally got my scanner working but then was out of action on everything but the local music festival I co-chair for our Arts Council. It's over now and this weekend I'm catching up on everything else. I think I am attaching a picture of houses similar to El Nido. The top one on the page is in Asheville, NC. The bottom one is the famous Classen Blvd photo. When I was in Raleigh at Preservation NC offices last month I asked where that photo came from and we searched their files for it. Myrick Howard, the president, thinks it was sent to him by someone in Oklahoma City after he spoke there in the early 1990s.

[DL note: the 3909 Classen house is shown below, including the handwritten note]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/misc/3909Classen_love.jpg

PNC had featured El Nido on the cover of its magazine and he was invited to come speak in OKC. We couldn't find the original. The intern who did the architectural survey in 2001 that included this picture no longer works there but Myrick was going to see if she or someone else that used to work there might be able to direct him to other files that we didn't find.

[DL note: the Asheville NC house is shown below]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/misc/asheville_nc_love.jpg

An interesting story about the Asheville NC house was told to me earlier this week by someone on the Asheville Historical Society. The people who had it built had seen El Nido and wanted their house to be like it. They asked the the Gibbs if they would share the plans but they declined. Their architect sat across from the house and made drawings to be able to come up with the plans. Of course he never saw the inside. I don't know and she didn't know if inside is similar. How amusing that they could have purchased a very similar plan from Aurelius-Swanson. It makes me wonder if the mix-up that has been published about the architect being a friend of Mrs Gibbs from California named Aurelia Swanson was passed around by her to prevent anyone knowing where the plans actually came from. Footnote on that information in book about NC Architecture states that Miss Gibbs told author that in interview. She may have been told that all her life (or it could be result of dementia).

I hope you are doing well. I miss the flurry of emails we had back and forth about this. I still hope to come to OKC sometime. Thanks again for all your help. I hope you will pass this on to the folks on the thread. It's dark but maybe you can see that it really is similar.

Becky
And there you have it. 3909 Classen. And, per Martin, Dr. Binkley not Dr. Brinkley. Mystery solved!

I give my own thanks to all who have helped unravel this interesting piece of history. It was fun!

gen70
11-01-2009, 01:06 AM
When was this home destroyed?

Doug Loudenback
11-01-2009, 01:09 AM
Never did get a fix on that.

But, as noted above, after the death of Dr. J.G. Binkley on October 30, 1963, a surviving son, Dr. Samuel Binkley, applied to rezone the 3909 Classen property to restricted commercial in October 1973. I didn't find the disposition of that application, but either it or another was approved since the new commercial property began being advertised as the "Classen Central" in May 1982.

gen70
11-01-2009, 01:36 AM
WOW...You are awesome.....Not!!

gen70
11-01-2009, 01:41 AM
Never did get a fix on that.

But, as noted above, after the death of Dr. J.G. Binkley on October 30, 1963, a surviving son, Dr. Samuel Binkley, applied to rezone the 3909 Classen property to restricted commercial in October 1973. I didn't find the disposition of that application, but either it or another was approved since the new commercial property began being advertised as the "Classen Central" in May 1982.
I got ripped ---stoned---- at that house in 1971..Sorry....I Guess?..

Doug Loudenback
11-01-2009, 03:00 AM
I guess I miss the points of your last 2 messages, gen70.

As to your 1st remark, "WOW...You are awesome.....Not," I agree completely that I'm not awesome and your personal expression is clear enough about how you feel about that. So, we are not in dispute about the fact that I lack the quality of being awesome. I don't know why it was so important to you to make that point in your comment but I guess you have your reasons. As for me, you asked if I knew when the building was destroyed and I tried to answer your question. I said that I didn't know and tried to give you what relevant information that I have which might relate to the answer. For some reason, that prompted you to make a personal comment about me.

Anyway, no, I'm not awesome, no argument there. Kudos to you for pointing that out.

About the 2nd comment that you got "ripped ... stoned ... at that house in 1971 ... Sorry....I Guess?" ... it sounds like you've got a good story to tell about your personal experiences at that house which will doubtless enhance everyone's knowledge about the house, and you.

Tell away, and thanks for your observations.

rebeccalove
11-01-2009, 08:36 AM
Gen 70s remarks about experiences at the house at 3909 Claussen Blvd that no longer exists made me think that perhaps there are others who remember attending events there. Martin's research indicated that the Binkley family used the home for social events.

Also, I realized in the enlarged picture that Doug prepared (thanks-I'm not good at manipulating images on the computer) there looks like an open door on the terrace behind the ladies. That would mean that this on this house, the area corresponding to the front porch of El Nido is enclosed, so it is a bit different and may have had the larger interior space that Martin expected after reading about all the parties. I guess maybe the gathering that Gen70 attended there in 1971 wasn't in the society pages?

Hoping this will post since I think I've send at least five messages, Becky

Doug Loudenback
11-01-2009, 09:18 AM
Becky, you got through the firewall! Great! Welcome!

rebeccalove
11-01-2009, 10:04 AM
Yes, I'm "on". I'll try to forward any more tidbits I come across about this. As I was compiling information you all have found and shared for a meeting later this week, I came across picture with address in an ad for Aurelius-Swanson Co. from the Oklahoman of 8/29/1920 that you sent from library archives, Doug. I'm going to google the address and see what's there now. It's says 1201 W 36th St--one block west Classen Blvd, an airplane bungalow. Thanks again, Becky

rebeccalove
11-01-2009, 10:19 AM
The house pictured in the Oklahoman Aurelius-Swanson ad in 1920 is still there at corner of NW 36th St. and N Military Ave. It has a huge magnolia in the front yard so house is obscured but can see details from the photo in newspaper. I wonder if the people who live there know it was featured in an ad in 1920? Becky

Doug Loudenback
11-01-2009, 10:33 AM
Ha ha! Probably not ... the County Assessor's record for this property show that it was constructed in 1921 (not necessarily gospel) ... Leonard Sullivan Oklahoma County Assessor Real Property Detail Sheet (http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/AN-R.asp?ACCOUNTNO=R054853267) ... here's one of two assessor photos ...

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2666/R054853267001vA.jpg

It would be very interesting to know how many bungalows Aurelius-Swanson constructed here. Oklahoma City got a horde of bungalows in the 1910s-1930s ... might call it bungalow city. Has your research given you a basis to know whether Okc was typical in that respect?

rebeccalove
11-01-2009, 11:18 AM
I think that probably is typical for other areas. There are a lot of bungalows in this part of the country too built during that time period but rare to have the Spanish revival style. The style of the house at NW 36th street would be typical bungalow here, expect not many airplane bungalows.

Looking back, I think the house at NW 36th may be one that Generals64 mentioned in post on 9/8. The airplane bungalow design is what makes it resemble El Nido.

Your email to me of 9/8/09 that included information you found about A-S included the pictures of houses in ads from The Oklahoman. I got the address to look for that house from one of those ads that said "open today" and had date 8/29/1920. There's another open house ad for home at 3400 Classen date Sunday 8/20/1916 with a photo that I haven't looked up yet. They are definitely photos of newly constructed houses--no trees around--and details of what I could see of the house I mentioned from side and front match the photo.

From what Allison Marshaus at Oklahoma Historical Society told me from her research and from what you all have gathered, looks like Aurelius-Swanson went at with with gusto but bankrupted relatively quickly. So much for the description of E. L Aurelius you found in the excerpt from History of Oklahoma: "These achievements, it may be added, have been accomplished before their architect has reached the age when slower minds are beginning to comprehend life's possibilities." From all the things they were into--not just construction but also selling construction, household and electrical supplies and offering mortgages on the properties, that's one of life's possibilities it's easy to see, even for a slow mind like mine. Another of the notices you sent before was for Bankrupt Sale of stock of Aurelius Swanson Electric Co. in Jan 1922. The light fixture pictured in that ad is just like one that hangs in living room of El Nido.

Considering how many of these homes you probably still have there, I know it must seem strange for me to be pursuing this so avidly. But El Nido is really a curiosity around here. Partly because of it's architectural style but maybe also partly because of the family that built it and lived there, but even people who have no idea of that family or what they were like notice and remember the house. It's a combination of Oklahoma history and NC history and I want people here to be aware of the Oklahoma part of that history--it's been fascinating for me.

Becky

Doug Loudenback
11-01-2009, 11:23 AM
Here's another full-page ad by the A-S company, this one on July 1, 1917, for the property shown below ... click the ad for a larger view ...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/bungalows/aurelius_swanson_1917_07_01_800.jpg (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/bungalows/aurelius_swanson_1917_07_01.jpg)

Like the 3909 Classen home, it no longer exists. The county assessor shows the property to be owned by United Systems in the building below, built in 1971:

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2665/R057850450001zA.jpg

rebeccalove
11-01-2009, 11:30 AM
Wow! What an impressive house to have lost. I'll have to research that company that made the "life furniture" now. But at least that is an attractive commercial property that replaced it. The one mentioned at 3400 Classen Blvd is also gone. Convenience mart and other small businesses at every corner. Becky

Doug Loudenback
11-01-2009, 12:17 PM
* * * Another of the notices you sent before was for Bankrupt Sale of stock of Aurelius Swanson Electric Co. in Jan 1922. The light fixture pictured in that ad is just like one that hangs in living room of El Nido.

Considering how many of these homes you probably still have there, I know it must seem strange for me to be pursuing this so avidly. But El Nido is really a curiosity around here. Partly because of it's architectural style but maybe also partly because of the family that built it and lived there, but even people who have no idea of that family or what they were like notice and remember the house. It's a combination of Oklahoma history and NC history and I want people here to be aware of the Oklahoma part of that history--it's been fascinating for me.

Becky
About the light fixture, well that is eery, isn't it?

I would also say that, judging by the copy of the photo you sent but also noting that the quality of the image isn't good enough to say for sure, that your El Nido still hasn't found an exact match in Oklahoma City, if there ever was one.

As you noted early on, the trapezoid shape of the pillars (or whatever they are called) distinguishes El Nido. Although other bungalows here feature trapezoids ... like the one below at 315 NW 20 ...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/bungalows/315nw20.jpg

... and the one below at 126 NW 19th ...

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2709/R044682450001zA.jpg

... they are nothing like your El Nido and the trapezoid form was/is not that common. More often, the lines are at right-angles, like the very nice one below at 140 NW 19th ...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/bungalows/140nw19.jpg

Aside from bungalows, the Spanish style was and remains popular here for more posh digs. Here are three located in Heritage Hills (and I betcha the owners would NOT care to have their homes referred to as bungalows!) ...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/bungalows/heritagehills1.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/bungalows/heritagehills2.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/bungalows/heritagehills3.jpg

All of this discussion raises another question: What the heck IS a bungalow, anyway?

I've never focused in to arrive at a particular definition aside from repeating what others commonly refer to them as being ... typically small to medium sized homes, often with a porch, sometimes with a partial 2nd story (the airplane version, I guess). Doing a little quick looking, I'm not quickly finding a consensus about the definition. For example, Bungalow - Discussion and Encyclopedia Article (http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/Bungalow/) seems to say that they are always 1-story, which rules out "airplane" bungalows. Also, see this excerpt (http://books.google.com/books?id=X1TK2yIiecUC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=bungalow+definition&source=bl&ots=9PbXYQP6Vn&sig=HpSI3goQdiVF5dGtlNC_L2gMelQ&hl=en&ei=ctbtSs7IHJKoMKfEgYQM&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CCkQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=bungalow%20definition&f=false) from the book American Bungalow Style.

Heck, my home in Mesta Park, is it a bungalow??? Dunno.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/MestaPark/mestapark_nw19th_04as.jpg

I'm just gonna have to do an article on Okc Bungalows, I guess. After the MAPS 3 vote is done, and after I finish my undone Capitol Hill article, and after ... but sooner or later, I'll get to it!

This has been a lot of fun, Becky. Thanks for being the catalyst, and thanks for us learning about the Okc-Shelby NC (and, indirectly, Asheville) connection.

Doug Loudenback
11-01-2009, 02:02 PM
Wow! What an impressive house to have lost. I'll have to research that company that made the "life furniture" now. But at least that is an attractive commercial property that replaced it. The one mentioned at 3400 Classen Blvd is also gone. Convenience mart and other small businesses at every corner. Becky
Becky, sad to say, OKC's past 50-60 years haven't been marked by a dominating interest in historical preservation -- I say not "dominating" since the historical preservation point of view has often not prevailed here, though there are exceptions.

Part of that might be attributed to the fact that, relatively speaking, we are still a relatively young city as cities go ... the city was "born" on April 4, 1889, with the Land Run bearing that date. Quite possibly it takes more than a little bit of aging for a city to become really appreciative of its past heritage ... and that's probably not unlike the human model.

I see that your city has much more vintage roots. From History of Shelby--Shelby, North Carolina: A National Register of Historic Places Travel Itinerary (http://www.nps.gov/history/nr/travel/shelby/history.htm), I read that:


The area Shelby, North Carolina would later occupy was familiar to the Cherokees and other American Indians of the Southern Appalachian region when the first European explorers arrived in western North Carolina. This occurred in May, 1540, when the Spanish expedition of roughly 600 soldiers led by Hernando de Soto (1500-1542) came up from Florida, where they had arrived from Cuba the previous year, and visited the Cherokee town named Xulla in western North Carolina before crossing the mountains into eastern Tennessee. The Spanish did not stay, but the Cherokees, an Iroquoian-speaking people, would later have to deal with the French, British and Americans in closer proximity. The presence of the Cherokee proved troublesome to the newly arrived English colonists, as many Cherokees staged attacks against the English during the French and Indian War, even defeating an invading British Army in 1760 and forcing the surrender of Fort Loudon in eastern Tennessee. The Cherokee presence did not prevent the arrival of European settlers, however. ¶ During the 1750s European settlers first arrived in the region that would later become Shelby, which was then part of Ansonia County, North Carolina's westernmost county.
Well, I guess that's another Oklahoma connection with your area ... the Cherokees were forced to move to what would much later become the northeastern part of Oklahoma during the "Trail of Tears" period in Indian Territory and Oklahoma history.

Fast-forwarding to the 1960s, we (corporately, we, OKC) wiped out about 40% of our historic downtown structures during the 1960s-1970s in our legitimate interest in revitalizing our downtown which was becoming distressed by the development of and trend toward suburban shopping and, during that time, we lost more treasures than I'll count here [so to avoid sidetracking this thread]), and it wasn't only then that such a quality might be observed. I'm only mentioning this here for your general reference so that you'll have a bit of background. Even as we speak, at least a few historic treasures will likely be eliminated by a pending city initiative (MAPS 3) if it passes on December 8 ... and I'll be one who votes Yes ... but, again, those discussions are better found (and kept) within existing topics in this main element of OkcTalk ... OKC Metro Area Talk - OKCTalk (http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/) ...

But, back to topic, historic residences. Here's another magnificent home, the home of early-day deputy US marshall, local sheriff, but soon to become oil and business tycoon and city leader C.F. Colcord (who was during his later years chair/president/whatever title of the Oklahoma Historical Society). His 1903 home was located at 421 W (now NW) 13th Street. When built in 1903, it was considered to be on the outstretches of Oklahoma City, proper, even though only 13 blocks north of downtown center. As I said, we are a young city. Local trolleys promised to go that far away but, when his home was built, they did not.

421 NW 13th, Charles Colcord's home in 1903 ... click for larger ...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/chamberofcommerce/1903book/small/coc_1903_017_colcordhome.jpg (http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/chamberofcommerce/1903book/coc_1903_017_colcordhome.jpg)

... and the same property today ...

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/chamberofcommerce/1903book/colcordreplacement.jpg

Gladly, numerous historical homes, which have less likelihood of being razed than do commercial properties, continue to exist. As it developed, many homes built on early-day Classen Blvd. are gone. Classen Blvd. was initially built as a corridor thorough the then-existing rural wilderness by the company that owned the trolley line. The trolley line owners coincidentally (!) owned large tracts abutting that route and it built an electric plant and early day amusement park at its northern end, Belle Isle Park. At one time, traffic patterns did not necessarily mean that perimeter properties would necessarily be business properties ... heck, in 1903, automobile ownership was relatively small. The owners of the trolley line didn't make their big bucks from operating the trolley but, rather, from developing and selling residential properties along its route. But, with cars came individual traffic, and with that came individual businesses. Eventually, Classen became an area involving commerce, and many residences did not survive though a few still do.

Recall that, as to the 3909 Classen property, after his parents had both died, it was a surviving son that petitioned the city in 1973 to rezone the property at which his parents had lived for many years to "restricted commercial."

Doug Loudenback
11-01-2009, 02:14 PM
Wow! What an impressive house to have lost. I'll have to research that company that made the "life furniture" now. But at least that is an attractive commercial property that replaced it. The one mentioned at 3400 Classen Blvd is also gone. Convenience mart and other small businesses at every corner. Becky
If you mean, the ad's reference to Harbour-Longmire's "life time furniture," Harbour-Longmire was a principal Okc early-day retailer and manufacturer. It built the downtown building below in 1922 or 1923 ... today the building is used by the City of Oklahoma City ...

http://www.dougloudenback.com/downtown/48.jpg

rebeccalove
11-01-2009, 02:24 PM
That's very interesting history of my area and yours. I knew about the Cherokee and enjoy visiting the lands they still hold further west here. This area also has interesting history during Revolutionary War with battles that turned the tide occurring nearby with help from the Overmountain Men.

I'm going to try to attach photos of the light fixtures at EL Nido that I think probably came from Aurelius-Swanson, and you can see on the view of living room into dining room how much like the photo in the Modern Bungalow Plan book on that first existing page. If I can't figure out how to get these on the thread, I'll email to you.

Becky362

363

364

rebeccalove
11-01-2009, 02:30 PM
Also, there are more of the little rotted lampshades like the ones on the living room fixture in a closet. I think they went on the music room fixture (the one with the badly damaged ceiling) and maybe the dining room fixture too (I don't think I sent picture of it). Or maybe they were just extras. Could have purchased them in the bankruptcy sale (ha). The fabric on the extras is also very fragile and mostly rotted.

Thanks for sending the photo of the furniture company building. It's a nice looking building. I'm glad it's being used and preserved.

Becky

Doug Loudenback
11-01-2009, 02:31 PM
Becky, if you want larger-than-thumbnails, it's pretty simple: Within a pair of opening/closing codes, include the literal path of the graphic file, e.g., [img]xxx

Sure looks like that lighting fixture you mentioned earlier.

bluedogok
11-01-2009, 06:08 PM
Thank you both Doug & Rebecca for this "history lesson", I love learning about the older buildings in town. Being in architecture and having an interest in historic preservation it is always interesting. Even though the only "old building" project that I have worked on is the JDM Place building, which was no where close to a "preservation" project it is always neat to see the history of buildings.