I couldn't really think of a better place to post this...

I have read some about some of the projects that a few of you are currently working on....

I was curious... what all OKC projects are a result of OKCTalk... meaning what projects gained their birth as a result of an idea or suggestion from it being mentioned on this site.

Good question.....I'll have to think on this for awhile, but I'll mention a few things. Since OKC Talk is so young, this forum really hasn't seen any results yet. But, several of us on this forum have been together on other city forums, including the old City Hall Talkback forum, for years now....it's taken years for our ideas to be implemented......it just takes time!

1. I-240 was renamed thanks to Mr. Anderson. I'll let him comment on this.

2. The KerrMcGee Bell Tower- a few years ago, several of us on this board, sent many CEO's letters about a similar idea, only on a larger scale. Luke Corbett scaled down our idea to make it more affordable for one corp. to tackle. It will now be a focal point on the river and from I-35.

3. Airport.....I know the airport trust has heard it from us numerous times. They're making some progress and I know they've heard our cries.

4. The North Canadian River was renamed the Oklahoma River. That idea was first mentioned on one of the city forums we were on.

5. MAPS for Kids......Well, we can't claim credit for all of this, but many of us on this forum really pushed on other forums, emails to our council, letters to our council, personal calls to our council, etc. to make education be the priority of MAPS II. We proposed that many moons ago. I guess someone listened.

6. Finance the Skirvin with the help of city assistance. We mentioned this numerous times, I submitted a press release to The Oklahoman about it.....we also mentioned it as our beyound MAPS project. Sure, it probably happened as a coincidence, but I know city leaders saw our plans.

7. Talk of light rail. Thanks to many of us on OKC City Hall Talkback several years ago, we started a group whose primary focus was on lobbying city hall for rail transit. Our president lobbied his heart out at city hall council meetings, only to get the cold shoulder from Humphries. Obviously, someone has heard our cry, because Burns Hargis and company have been discussing it.

8. We really started pushing the need for a revamping of our state fair grounds to attract ore horseshows. We proposed these improvements years ago. When Skip Wagner came to town, I really pushed him hard about the need to improve our fair grounds. Others on this forum did the same, through their numerous contacts with Skip. He did listen, as he emailed me back saying we had great ideas, and he'd mention them to the Fair Board. We proposed them as a MAPS II Project. Obviously, that didn't happen, but they found financing in another way.

I'm sure there's more....I just can't think of any more right now.

Now what is this city hall talkback forum?

Nonetheless, I want to comment that I am surprised Marriott isn't persuing charges on us like Academy is for Bass Pro. Same deal.

Now what is this city hall talkback forum?

Nonetheless, I want to comment that I am surprised Marriott isn't persuing charges on us like Academy is for Bass Pro. Same deal.

There is room in the hotel industry. The Marriot really won't compete with the Skirvin. It's sort of a niche hotel.

On the other hand, Bass Pro put a lot of independent guys out of business and severely damaged Acadamy's business. Apples and oranges there.

B/c Bass Pro is practically the Skirvin of the great outdoors. It's not their problem they are in a competitive field.

B/c Bass Pro is practically the Skirvin of the great outdoors. It's not their problem they are in a competitive field.

Actually, I've investigated the ways that they were funded. The Skirvin money came from funds that were legal. The Bass Pro money came from taxes that had been passed by public votes for other specific purposes -- hence the violation of Article 10, Section 19 of the State Constitution.

If hotel companies in town are mad because they think the Skirvin will put them out of business (Bass Pro put several local businesses out of business), I really don't think they have a leg to stand on.

Many of them don't... our health care infrustructure is in serious disarray, albeit Baptist, St. Anthony and OU.

And, from what I know the Bass Pro was actually funded like this: We built their building for them, now we get to lease it out to them. We own it, we own them (they are binded), and they can't abandon like Academy and Wal Mart do. We get every cent back, and we get assured they will stay.

I had been urging OKCTalkers to lobby to name a street or something after the late Keith Leftwich.

Keith got his start while a broker for Anderson-Bryant, my families company. I got to know Keith both as a person and a politician. Although Democrat, he usually leaned the other way. My dad even thought he was a great politician... And my dad is a devout Republican!

Keith Leftwich was the first State Senator in district 44 to die in office. Keith had Cancer.

When this occured, and with the major strides he made for the Southside I felt it was only proper a street or freeway was named in memory of Keith. I wanted Pennsylvania renamed from Reno South. However, my second choice was approved.

I-240 from I-35 to I-44 is now known as the Keth Leftwich Memorial Loop.

Many of them don't... our health care infrustructure is in serious disarray, albeit Baptist, St. Anthony and OU.

And, from what I know the Bass Pro was actually funded like this: We built their building for them, now we get to lease it out to them. We own it, we own them (they are binded), and they can't abandon like Academy and Wal Mart do. We get every cent back, and we get assured they will stay.


One of the crown jewels of the MAPS program is the Bricktown Entertainment Center, a retail and entertainment complex being built along an artificial canal. Bricktown’s anchor tenant is Bass Pro Shops, a Missouri-based sporting goods retailer. To get Bass Pro into Oklahoma City, local officials gave the company more than $17 million in subsidies using public funds. Under a 15-year lease, Bass Pro will pay the city approximately $6 per square foot per year for 110,000 square feet of retail space. Oklahoma City may not be New York or San Francisco, but that’s a below market rate by any standard.

The $17 million comes from three city tax funds—the MAPS operation and maintenance fund, a fund used to finance capital improvements for the city’s schools, and a third fund used to finance equipment for public safety agencies. City officials say the sales taxes generated by Bass Pro over the 15 years of the lease will cover this $17 million “loan”. But this claim covers up a key fact: most of Bass Pro’s sales will come from existing businesses forced to compete with the government-sponsored retailer. Oklahoma City’s own analyst said that 41% of Bass Pro’s expected sales will be “transfers,” meaning they’ll come at the expense of the city’s 65 existing sporting goods retailers (and that doesn’t include large discount stores like Wal-Mart). Thus, Oklahoma City residents and businesses are forcing a transfer of wealth from local merchants to a larger national merchant; what they’re not doing is promoting “economic development” or growing the economy in any substantial manner.

What’s especially galling here is that Oklahoma City officials could have supported a Bricktown development that would have used no taxpayer funds whatsoever. During the bidding process for Bricktown’s development rights, local businessman Moshe Tal submitted a proposal for a privately financed Bricktown Entertainment Center. The city rejected his offer, instead awarding the contract to developer Randy Hogan. Hogan then turned around and demanded the $17 million in taxpayer funds to get Bass Pro into his development.

Tal says Hogan got the contract because of political connections to local officials, including Oklahoma City Mayor Kirk Humphreys, who allegedly owned real estate holdings once managed by Hogan. Tal accuses dozens of city officials of “self-dealing” with one another to promote Hogan’s development—and the Bass Pro subsidy—to the detriment of the taxpayers

http://www.moraldefense.com/initium/09-15-03.htm

I really couldn't care less about the poor ma and pa shops that will DIE. And I firmly believe that any retail that we can cram in OKC at the expense of Waldemort is for the best.

Anyway, so you are saying that Moshe Tal would have built another anchor, maybe not a Bass Pro, but still an anchor, and it would have costed us ZIP? And then, what is most fascinating is that Broken Arrow probably got theirs for free when Bass Pro became interested in Oklahoma. But, with that news I can tell that Bass Pro would have come in later. I still think it is a boon, to say that we have just as many Bass Pro's as Dallas and Houston. There are people on other forums (you know the one) that keep bringing up the fact that Oklahoma has no Cheesecake Factory, but the surrounding states do. That is b/c our population can't support it, not that we our impoverished. If Cheesecake Factory thinks we are impoverished maybe we need to have a word w/ them and kick soem sense into them.

I really couldn't care less about the poor ma and pa shops that will DIE. And I firmly believe that any retail that we can cram in OKC at the expense of Waldemort is for the best.

Anyway, so you are saying that Moshe Tal would have built another anchor, maybe not a Bass Pro, but still an anchor, and it would have costed us ZIP? And then, what is most fascinating is that Broken Arrow probably got theirs for free when Bass Pro became interested in Oklahoma. But, with that news I can tell that Bass Pro would have come in later. I still think it is a boon, to say that we have just as many Bass Pro's as Dallas and Houston. There are people on other forums (you know the one) that keep bringing up the fact that Oklahoma has no Cheesecake Factory, but the surrounding states do. That is b/c our population can't support it, not that we our impoverished. If Cheesecake Factory thinks we are impoverished maybe we need to have a word w/ them and kick soem sense into them.

I never said it was a bad thing. It was just done in a bad and corrupt manner. Something that I think should rightfully end Humphrey's political career.

No. What would end Kirk the Smirk (the Gazette's name for him) is his lack of understanding on how cities grow. I believe the Gazette once wrote (the only sensible commentary I have seen from them) that we throw him into a big van and drive him to the outskirts of town for him to take in what he sees.

Anyway, so you are saying that Moshe Tal would have built another anchor, maybe not a Bass Pro, but still an anchor, and it would have costed us ZIP?

Moshe Tal's original plans:

1. A major upscale Galleria mall around the canal larger than Crossroads and Penn Square combined (would've never made it in our market)

2. Hard Rock Cafe (wouldn't have happened...Hard Rock isn't expanding in the US)

3. ESPN Zone (might have been possible)

4. A craft mall

5. International Gymnatics Hall of fame

6. a Marriot Rivercenter Hotel connected to the mall

7. An office tower

8. A Country Music Complex

****Problem is Moshe always claimed to have foreign investors backing him, but when asked to prove it, he never could. Had we been dealing with developer David Cordish (supposedly with Moshe) alone, it might have been a different story. I think the city should've given Moshe more time to bring Cordish to the table. Unfortunately, the good ole boy tactics took hold and they rushed Hogan to the front table.



And then, what is most fascinating is that Broken Arrow probably got theirs for free when Bass Pro became interested in Oklahoma.

Nope, Broken Arrow is financing theirs just like Oklahoma City is. Broken Arrow owns the land and the building. They payed for it through bonds.

So... a guy who never had the money to begin with is pressing charges on the city for not picking him, and avidly supporting Hogan w/ the cash he needed... OH, NOW I GET IT! Well, I think a few years ago a Galleria for OKC wouldn't have been a very good idea, given that we hadn't really proven ourself by then. With the passage of a year, it would seam like Tal was thinking in the future, but we had no way of seeing it. I sure wish he had actually been given the go ahead on hs Galleria though, but it would probably have only been scaled down to the size of Northpark Mall, and just the same thing. Plus, that really isn't the best location for it, I can see a single big box fitting in well there however. Maybe if he had the same plans for a little bit west of that location, right up along the Broadway onramp, it would have been approved.

His ideas were great! In fact, Urban Renewal called them too ambitious. At the time, they were probably right in their thinking.

I would've liked to have heard more from David Cordish, the prominent developer Tal was bringing on to join him in the Bricktown 2000 venture. He's a prominent developer who has turned numerous historic areas into entertainment districts. He's from Baltimore, and his claim to fame is the Power Plant Development, among other projects in Baltimore. He might've ben able to get a Hard Rock to locate here, as he does have a partnership with them.

Still, Tal never really indicated who his foreign investors were. So, you could say the city erred on the side of caution.

Hogan and Humphries were good buddies in the real estate market, so I strongly think that played a factor as well. Also, Fred Jones Hall, commissioner for Urban Reneewal is a partner with Hogan on East Wharf. He refrained from voting on the selection of Hogan, but I bet he had an influence.

Conflicts of interest are hard to prove though.

My wife and I spent a lot of time discussing all this way back when. The questions comes back to this: if you look at how many lawsuits Moshe Tal filed (not just in regard to Bricktown), would you really want to be his business partner? If not, then why should the city have entertained him as a developer? He had no money, no experience, and a very vague tie to David Cordish.

I think downtownguy brings out a good point about how many lawsuits Moshe Tal filed. I know I wouldn't want someone like that as a business partner.

Moshe Tal had indeed presented good and exciting proposals to the city. However, his connections to David Cordish remained only that... connections. Oklahoma City got hit too hard with the late 1980's oil bust to just start putting money on words. If David Cordish was truly interested in forking over cash in Oklahoma City developments he would have had serious talks with city leaders.

Oklahoma City gave numerous extensions to the developer of the downtown Galleria, and even put the infrastructure in place. However, after three years of empty promises that work would start, downtown was left empty-handed in 1985. Penn Square Mall, however, opened in 1988. Although not downtown, Penn Square is not too far away.

My wife and I spent a lot of time discussing all this way back when. The questions comes back to this: if you look at how many lawsuits Moshe Tal filed (not just in regard to Bricktown), would you really want to be his business partner? If not, then why should the city have entertained him as a developer? He had no money, no experience, and a very vague tie to David Cordish.

Filing lawsuits is not necessarily the mark of a dishonorable person. Heck, in this case, it was the act of someone who feels he got royally hosed.

Do a check on Moshe Tal at www.oscn.net. You will find that this man has sued dozens of city and business leaders, his own neighbors, former business partners, judges who didn't rule his way, and even his own former laywers. This is just fact.

My second cousin presided over at least one of those cases. I'll have to ask her about it sometime.

Looks like Tal v. Humphries et al has been proceding in Tal's favor actually... In fact, the latest happening was that Judge Robertson removed herself from the case. Having dealt with several "high rollers", especially property investors, this kind of history with our court system is not something that is really unheard of, or even uncommon.

I don't know the guy, so I'm not going to defend him and his personal credibility or whatever. As far as how the deal went down, I don't think anyone could really defend the way that Humphries and company proceded either. The bottom line is that there were probably some pretty viable options out there that involved the taxpayers not getting screwed. Unfortunately, it appears that none of Humphries' supporters would have benefitted, so we get to pay for Bass Pro.

Maybe he should be listening to Bill Handel On The Law...

^ Firefox... sorry.

I could definately, and still defend Humphreys. He wasn't "judgmental" he was being cautious and protective of our city's valuable land, and not just giving it away to some twit w/ millions of bogus dollars.

Does anyone know what's being built on the canal just east of the Theatre? Noticed a building going up while there for lunch today. The building looks like it will be small, just one level. Anyone know?

I don't think it will be one story. Is that the high rise, possibly? The Factory maybe?

Does anyone know what's being built on the canal just east of the Theatre? Noticed a building going up while there for lunch today. The building looks like it will be small, just one level. Anyone know?

Toby Keith's Roadhouse Bar, Grill, and Theater!

Oh... I forgot about that. My post was kinda silly.

^ Firefox... sorry.

I could definately, and still defend Humphreys. He wasn't "judgmental" he was being cautious and protective of our city's valuable land, and not just giving it away to some twit w/ millions of bogus dollars.

I never said he was judgemental. Just a self-dealing politician that doled out tax dollars to his buddies in an unconstitutional way. There is no getting around the fact that it was in fact very unconstitutional. Article 10, Section 19.

There is a difference! :D

Seems like the judges disagreed with that "unconstitutional" bit... I'm not a judge. Neither are you. Do we really believe every judge in this state is part of a conspiracy against Moshe Tal?

Seems like the judges disagreed with that "unconstitutional" bit... I'm not a judge. Neither are you. Do we really believe every judge in this state is part of a conspiracy against Moshe Tal?

The Judges "interpreted" something that was in the Constitution to simply not be there. In other words, they ignored the Constitution. It's something that has been done many a-time in this state. Our State Constitution is a nearly meaningless document due to all of the gutless decisions our Supreme Court has made.

Here's Article 10, Section 19 for your reading:


10 § 19. Specification of purpose of tax - Devotion to another purpose.

Every act enacted by the Legislature, and every ordinance and resolution passed by any county, city, town, or municipal board or local legislative body, levying a tax shall specify distinctly the purpose for which said tax is levied, and no tax levied and collected for one purpose shall ever be devoted to another purpose.

Now, please explain to me how MAPS money, and money from other sales taxes passed specifically for other projects being redirected to Bass Pro is not in very clear violation of this law?

This is like the U.S. Supreme Court simply deciding that the second amendment didn't really say that citizens could keep and bear arms.

Midtowner, I think downtownguy was referring to the conspiracy charges brought by Moshe Tal, not the Bass Pro deal.

Midtowner, I think downtownguy was referring to the conspiracy charges brought by Moshe Tal, not the Bass Pro deal.

What I got was that he was attacking Moshe Tal's credibility based on the fact that he had filed a lot of lawsuits. I pointed out that his conspiracy lawsuit was actually progressing well for Moshe. I also pointed out that what Humphries did in the Bass Pro deal was illegal. The fact that people profited off of an illegal payout of tax money sounds awfully like a conspiracy to me...

Midtowner, I have nothing but respect for you and the opinions you've expressed prior to this. I just question why anyone would believe Mr. Tal when he has yet to win any of the law suits he has filed (other than a reversal of a frivilous lawsuit won against him).

As to Bass Pro, city leaders argued the use tax was not voted in by voters, but by the council, and was voted in without any specified purpose.

Midtowner, I have nothing but respect for you and the opinions you've expressed prior to this. I just question why anyone would believe Mr. Tal when he has yet to win any of the law suits he has filed (other than a reversal of a frivilous lawsuit won against him).

The wheels of justice turn slowly. His main suit is not even close to being through with. We'll see where it goes. Until it's over though, I have a difficult time passing judgement.

As to Bass Pro, city leaders argued the use tax was not voted in by voters, but by the council, and was voted in without any specified purpose.

Well, I did the research, and as it turns out, you're right on the issue, I'm wrong.

From the city's website:


So how are we paying for the building construction? We are borrowing from three Use Tax reserve funds established by Council resolution: the MAPS Operations, City Schools Use Tax and Public Safety Capital Equipment Use Tax Funds.

Borrowing Use Tax is not only legal and above-board, it actually benefits the three funds because the loans will be repaid at above-market interest rates.

Our City Council was not unanimous in voting for the project – that's what representative government is about. But even those opposed to the project will confirm that neither MAPS Sales Tax or General Fund money is involved in constructing the building we'll lease to Bass Pro.

http://www.okc.gov/budget/FY03_04/q_and_a.html

I guess I'll drop the issue or legality now :D

I still believe that this was a bad deal. Even if nothing illegal transpired, it seems very unfair to me that taxpayer money was given to a company to do something that very easily could have been done with private funds. It seems unfair that Bass Pro is paying about 1/4 (or less) of what most people would say is "fair" for that lot. It seems unfair that other businesses have to compete for customers with a business that is the recipient of corporate welfare. Those are all philosophical concerns. Even Mayor Cornett has expressed the fact that he has some philosophical misgivings about the deal.

But perhaps I'm just a taxpayer feeling a little disenfranchised...

Midtowner, you have every right to be opposed to the Bass Pro deal. It was a controversial project that seemed to have equally valid arguments for and against it. As for Moshe Tal, no, his lawsuits never seem to have an end. But look at how many times he's appealed his cases to the state supreme court, only to be rejected.

Midtowner, you have every right to be opposed to the Bass Pro deal. It was a controversial project that seemed to have equally valid arguments for and against it. As for Moshe Tal, no, his lawsuits never seem to have an end. But look at how many times he's appealed his cases to the state supreme court, only to be rejected.

Our Supreme Court has made some baffling decisions in the past. Tal's litigious nature is noted, but that has nothing to do with his claims. The fact that the Supreme Court even hears these cases (they have the option not to) lends quite a bit of validity to his appeals. Realize that the Supreme Court gets to choose which appeals it hears and which ones it does not.

Honestly, I don't see what the difference is between Bass Pro leasing space from th city and Academy leasing space from Lakeshore Shopping Center. Both are leasing space from a landlord.

I suppose other restaurants could complain that Coach's is getting to lease space at the Bricktown Ballpark. I really don't see the difference between this and the Bass Pro issue.

Honestly, I don't see what the difference is between Bass Pro leasing space from th city and Academy leasing space from Lakeshore Shopping Center. Both are leasing space from a landlord.

I suppose other restaurants could complain that Coach's is getting to lease space at the Bricktown Ballpark. I really don't see the difference between this and the Bass Pro issue.

Easy: Acadamy pays rent at full market price.

Bass Pro pays rent for pennies on the dollar as far as what it should cost.

Well, Randy Hogan got all of that land for free....is that fair?

We may need to add one more we may have achieved.

KOCO announced on their newscast this morning that two Oklahoma lawmakers are introducing a bill raising DUI to a first offense felony. $2,500 fine and five years in the joint!

This is one thing I have been lobbying for for many years!:congrats:

We may need to add one more we may have achieved.

KOCO announced on their newscast this morning that two Oklahoma lawmakers are introducing a bill raising DUI to a first offense felony. $2,500 fine and five years in the joint!

This is one thing I have been lobbying for for many years!:congrats:

Wow. We already have one of the highest inmate populations per capita in the U.S..

If you want all of your tax dollars to go to pay costs for some kid that blew a .09, that's cool. You'll also have a wonderful chance to ruin a lot of peoples' lives due to one stupid mistake.

I'm not sure if you remember applying for your job, but they probably checked your background for felonies. If you had even a nonviolent felony from 20 years ago, they probably would not of hired you. That is one very difficult thing to deal with as far as our crime and punishment system. It used to be that when you had paid your debt to society, it was paid. Now, it follows you around for your life.

People aren't going to think about the consequences, or the fact that it's a felony. Especially after they've had a few drinks.

By making DUI a first offense felony, most people will think twice about getting behind that wheel. Frankly, I could care less about the number of people in our prisons. Most deserve to be there, and many more that need to be there are released by the liberal court system.

If that guy that "blows a .09" goes to the joint, then maybe it will teach him. Plus, I bet a lot of companies will realize a mistake was made and the person has paid for it.

Oh. By the way. Maybe someone gets lucky and does not have an accident while driving drunk, however, it is still a violent crime. It is like some goomer pointing a firearm at you. A vehicle is a lethal weapon.

By making DUI a first offense felony, most people will think twice about getting behind that wheel. Frankly, I could care less about the number of people in our prisons. Most deserve to be there, and many more that need to be there are released by the liberal court system.

If that guy that "blows a .09" goes to the joint, then maybe it will teach him. Plus, I bet a lot of companies will realize a mistake was made and the person has paid for it.

Oh. By the way. Maybe someone gets lucky and does not have an accident while driving drunk, however, it is still a violent crime. It is like some goomer pointing a firearm at you. A vehicle is a lethal weapon.

You live in a black and white world apparently. I live in the real world.

In the real world, the state's budget is stretched to the limit by its prisons. We spend more on prisons than we do on schools. You suggest that we VASTLY increase our prison population. I know a lot of people off the top of my head that would now be in prison with felony records.

So far, the degree of punishment has not seemed to make any difference in detering people from committing crimes. Perhaps to the degree that they will often go the extra mile to evade the police on their third strike, but even though we're a death penalty state, we still have murder.

You'll put a lot of otherwise good people behind bars. MADD and other such organizations are trying to incrementally return us to the days of prohibition. Please name me one other state that calls a first DUI a felony? None exist? Perhaps that's the same reason that other states don't have cock boxing -- it's a bad idea.

With 2,000 bills being proposed this legislative session, only the ones that are deemed irrational and ridiculous are really getting any media attention. This certainly falls into that category.

I have an idea for you midtowner. Why not just run for the senate or the house and make all crime legal. It seems that is what you want. In the mean time, I will sleep at night knowing someone is trying to get drunks off the street. :fighting2

I have an idea for you midtowner. Why not just run for the senate or the house and make all crime legal. It seems that is what you want. In the mean time, I will sleep at night knowing someone is trying to get drunks off the street. :fighting2

It is said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result.

Throughout the years, we have ratcheted up penalties on DUI's. We've lowered the level of alcohol legally allowed in the system, we've turned your 3rd violation into a felony, etc. I pose this to you -- with each new law, have we seen a corresponding decrease in the number of crimes?

We went from Moshe Tal to talking about DUI's. :backtotop

We went from Moshe Tal to talking about DUI's. :backtotop

I agree. I made a comment about something that I wanted which makes it a project this board has accomplished, AND ONLY A COMMENT, and it starts a debate. I did not intend for that to happen.

I agree. I made a comment about something that I wanted which makes it a project this board has accomplished, AND ONLY A COMMENT, and it starts a debate. I did not intend for that to happen.


You should know better by now.

Please refer to my explanation of insanity :D

3. Airport.....I know the airport trust has heard it from us numerous times. They're making some progress and I know they've heard our cries.



I'm not sure what your're referring to, as I'm new 'round here, but, as a frequent flyer, I have to say that the remodeled airport is one of the best looking I've seen. Other notable, and new, airports are El Paso and Boise, although I think ours has them beat, particularly in appearance.

However, the screening at our airport is the worst I have seen anywhere: truly pathetic. 50 people in line and only 50% of the machines working, and a bunch of TSA folks just milling about?

My job no longer requres me to fly as much (I was going out once or twice a month). Perhaps things have gotten worse at Will Rogers?

Yes. It is a nice looking remodel. Although the foyer and some other areas have been expanded in square footage, Will Rogers has not been expanded. This is a major city. The 29th largest city in the United States, 45th largest metro with nearly 1.3 million people. Yet Will Rogers only has 16 or 17 gates. For a city this size, that is WAY too small. We need a minimum of 30, and we really need 50.

For several years, we have been lobbying the airport trust to increase the size of Will Rogers to comply with other cities our size, and to attract an airline as a hub. Salt Lake City is smaller than Oklahoma City and is a hub for Delta. We have the same air service that a city of around 250,000 would have, and no hub... Yet.

In 2003, I had formally announced my plans to run for city council in ward five. I changed my mind because the tax plan for the fair grounds had just been announced and I knew I could not get funding for the MAPS III I want. That includes a twin terminal at Will Rogers entering from SW 104 with a subway connecting the two terminals. This plan is very likely to happen in the mid range future (next five to ten years). Partly because I had a meeting with the incumbant and told him about what I wanted. Plus, with the people from city hall who have been monitoring us for years, we are becoming a sounding board for the improvement of this city. In fact, we call the airport trust the airport DIStrust.

As a result of my meeting with the councilman and the number of pleas we have written, this expansion of the east concourse is about to take place. Plus because if the profit margins are acceptable, an airline will apply for hub status at Will Rogers within the next 18 months. THIS will create need for the twin terminal.

Since we started pressuring the trust, we have seen four new airlines in Oklahoma City. One pulled out because they do not believe in giving a city a fair chance. The others. Allegiant. Flights to Las Vegas. Frontier. Flights to Denver with plans to expand service out of Will Rogers (none yet announced), and starting in May, America West reenters the market (keep an eye on this one). I have heard rumors of others in the planning stages. (no certain airlines)

So, we have made our mark and will continue to do so.

One final note. When flying west, use America West. We need to show them we can make them a big success in Oklahoma City.

Well said mranderson! Thanks for stepping in and addressing HFK's question/comment!

We have been lobbying Luther Trent and Co. for several years now, pushing for an airport that reflects our population. For a city our size, Will Rogers isn't impressive. I will admit, the new renovation is impressive. But, I think we need to think bigger, and think about all of the possiblities for our city. Based on our location and weather, hub status could be a real possiblity for our airport, if the Airport Trust played their hand of cards right. I firmly believe in the statement: "Build it and they will come."
It has concerned me some that the Airport Trust has questioned building the East Concorse to bring the airport up to a total of 25 gates. Without the East Concourse, the airport will basically be the same size as it was before, only newer. So, basically, the renovation won't have accomplished our goal of having a larger airport.

We need at least 25 gates to even be considered a player in the competitive air market.

In the future, as flights increase, we may even want to shoot for 40 or 50 gates. Only then will we have a real shot at landing some sort of hub or minihub.

America West is coming to OKC and they'll be testing our city. If we pass, a hub might be a real possiblity for expansion of the airline eastward. All they'd have to do is apply for hub status, and obviously the Airport Trust would want to build them their own terminal on the south side of the runways. So, I encourage everyone tot ry to fly America West whenever possible.

America West has chosen Oklahoma City as the front runner for a hub for two reasons. One. Oklahoma City is the most centrally located major city in the nation. Only one or two major cities on the mainland are more than 1,500 miles away. Most are within 1,200 miles. Therefore, fuel costs would be lower since many flights would not be what they are now... 3,000 miles nearly. From Phoenix to Boston is almost that distance and requires a long range aircraft.

Two. Security. Since the Murrah bombing, Oklahoma City has become one of the safest cities in the nation. Will Rogers has security measures in place that rival or beat even Washington DC. So, the airline feels passengers will be more secure here, even if they must lay over.

The airline is considering as many as 300 flights a day. Maybe not all at once, but gradually building them. This would create an estimated 3,000 jobs due to a maintainace base and possibly a regional call center. This would place Oklahoma City in a premier position to bid for new businesses and relocations, and may trigger the rest of what we need to grow to the potential size we could be.

It is not a sure thing. They need a certain profit margin (not known what it is) for it to fly (pardon the pun). I guess around 200 passengers a day each direction, maybe less. One inbound flight is a true redeye. It lands just after 3:00 AM.

So. If we all fly America West to the west coast cities, then we have a true shot at solving about 90% of our airline problems. It is not a luxury airline. They offer low prices and nice planes (except for the regional jets that are all too small). Airfare to Sacramento is less than $300 round trip.

I got a lot of this information on the inside. So, it may be accurate... And we helped.