View Full Version : What's the deal with 'mission trips'?



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JohnDenver
10-01-2009, 05:32 PM
I went back up and read my comment that got you all riled up.

"They don't want or need our whitey God."

I really don't, honestly, at all, understand how this offends you. Nada. Nothing.

My idea of a typical mission is going to Africa, some a pretty white nation as ours, especially Oklahoma. Thus, from an African's point of view, this is a white man's religion and god. Gasp. Offensively, he may say it is a whitey God. Shock and Awe!

I don't know how I continue living with speaking in such common terms.

Yes yes, chip on should ECO member of OKCTalk says that if you insert any other very offensive and oppressive names, it really becomes offensive and I should see the light. How is that not the "PC high horse" that you claim I am on?

How is respecting an ancient culture considered PC? That is news to me.

Martin
10-01-2009, 05:48 PM
eskimos, the bible says you can't have polygamy. forget the facts and reasons your culture has multiple husbands per wife.

off topic, but just in case you're curious... 'multiple husbands to one wife' is not, by definition, polygymy. that situation is called polyandry.

-M

PennyQuilts
10-01-2009, 06:30 PM
How is respecting an ancient culture considered PC? That is news to me.

Here is what bothers me - you have taken the most extreme attitude towards religion, especially christianity and attacked it with loaded words and historic things like the missionary position. You clearly believe that christian missions destroy old cultures. Got it. And sure, at times, it has. Look at the Celts, look at the Native Americans. But to equate the missionary trips, particularly taken by lay people to minister to the poor of other countries, and focus on some notion that this is going to rob them of their religion or attack their culture is just wild eyed nonsense. This is not Columbus bringing in armed, infectious hordes to take over the new world. Hell, ALL cultures change. Some might want to be just as concerned if the hispanics end up with a strong voting block in 20 years because a lot of pro choicers can reasonably expect to kiss some of that, good bye. But THAT isn't politically correct to even think about.

As for having a chip on my shoulder (by the use of the common word tripe?) please go back and re-read your posts. Who referred to "whitey" god and all that rot? You think I'm over reacting? I sure don't. It was an offensive term which is why you used it.

You claim that these mission folks, do-gooders if you will, are going to tell the natives that they are going to hell if they don't live a certain way? You don't know that. You just made that up. And the crap that they are going to be told how to conduct their sex lives? Can we live in the real world for just a second? The doctors I know go to places where the population is more religious than THEY are - and they aren't about to preach like that. They are there to serve, which they feel is part of their religious calling. And let's see - "Our ethnocentric world views, blasted on others. Tell them their prayers to their shaman doesn't work, build a church, cloth the women and tell them to have sex in missionary position. Then leave. And pat yourself on the back." Or some crap about rainforests. Or suggestions that I might want to take an anthropology class so I would understand what you were saying (as if anyone with half a brain is not aware of the arguments). What's all that about?

I just think you took this to the nth degree with a lot of hateful religious stereotypes. If calling you on using the term "whitey" and all that other assumptions you made means I have a chip on my shoulder, I can live with it. Frankly, as a group, I think these people tend to do wonderful things. I am not about to spend time trashing them for offering free dental help or vaccinations in the name of their god.

These folks aren't going in and converting at the barrel of a gun.

Caboose
10-01-2009, 07:00 PM
God is bigger then race or religion.

One would like to think so. The fact is though you don't know any more about god than I do or some tribal South American does.

Caboose
10-01-2009, 07:08 PM
Here is what bothers me - you have taken the most extreme attitude towards religion, especially christianity and attacked it with loaded words and historic things like the missionary position. You clearly believe that christian missions destroy old cultures. Got it. And sure, at times, it has. Look at the Celts, look at the Native Americans. But to equate the missionary trips, particularly taken by lay people to minister to the poor of other countries, and focus on some notion that this is going to rob them of their religion or attack their culture is just wild eyed nonsense. This is not Columbus bringing in armed, infectious hordes to take over the new world. Hell, ALL cultures change. Some might want to be just as concerned if the hispanics end up with a strong voting block in 20 years because a lot of pro choicers can reasonably expect to kiss some of that, good bye. But THAT isn't politically correct to even think about.

As for having a chip on my shoulder (by the use of the common word tripe?) please go back and re-read your posts. Who referred to "whitey" god and all that rot? You think I'm over reacting? I sure don't. It was an offensive term which is why you used it.

You claim that these mission folks, do-gooders if you will, are going to tell the natives that they are going to hell if they don't live a certain way? You don't know that. You just made that up. And the crap that they are going to be told how to conduct their sex lives? Can we live in the real world for just a second? The doctors I know go to places where the population is more religious than THEY are - and they aren't about to preach like that. They are there to serve, which they feel is part of their religious calling. And let's see - "Our ethnocentric world views, blasted on others. Tell them their prayers to their shaman doesn't work, build a church, cloth the women and tell them to have sex in missionary position. Then leave. And pat yourself on the back." Or some crap about rainforests. Or suggestions that I might want to take an anthropology class so I would understand what you were saying (as if anyone with half a brain is not aware of the arguments). What's all that about?

I just think you took this to the nth degree with a lot of hateful religious stereotypes. If calling you on using the term "whitey" and all that other assumptions you made means I have a chip on my shoulder, I can live with it. Frankly, as a group, I think these people tend to do wonderful things. I am not about to spend time trashing them for offering free dental help or vaccinations in the name of their god.

These folks aren't going in and converting at the barrel of a gun.

I am. Frankly I think that the fact that it takes Heaven and Hell to get these people to do these wonderful things takes the luster off of it. Why don't they just do it because it is the right thing to do? Sorry if I am not impressed by someone who use charity as a means to proselytize or dump their superstitious drivel on others.

JohnDenver
10-01-2009, 07:15 PM
off topic, but just in case you're curious... 'multiple husbands to one wife' is not, by definition, polygymy. that situation is called polyandry.

-M

I knew that, but it wasn't coming to my head when I was typing. Thanks, I will file it away correctly. :)

JohnDenver
10-01-2009, 07:19 PM
So, you read about the missionary position.

I've done more than read about it!

HIGH FIVE!?

Softballs, pitched ever so slowly.

:backtotop

JohnDenver
10-01-2009, 07:28 PM
Here is what bothers me - you have taken the most extreme attitude towards religion, especially christianity and attacked it with loaded words and historic things like the missionary position.

I must be pretty dense. I just don't see it.

I said:

Eskimos, the Bible says you can't have polygamy. Forget the facts and reasons your culture has multiple husbands per wife.
Central American Indians, you can't have men married to one another. The Bible says you can't do that.
If continue to sin in the eyes of God, you will go to hell. Do you want to go to hell? No? Ok, stop.

That is what offends me.

You want to build a well here and there in already poor parts of the Christian world? Awesome. That is a great mission.

But you want to build a church in the Rain forests, so you can save some "lost" civilization? That is offensive.

Clearly, to someone putting down their defensive M.O., they would see that I separate the two groups. There are the ones that are out to do good in the world, then there are the "savers." Yes, I do believe the ones that go to the reindeer herders in Mongolia and baptize the heathens, they are destroying cultures. The ones that go in and bring western clothes to pacific islands and change their Gods around, they are destroying cultures.

The ones that go to the already Christian areas of Central America and give them clean drinking water, awesome, that is great work. Dental work in the blue hills of Kentucky? Awesome again! I high five those dentists. Obviously Doctors without Borders aren't going in an converting people.. Obviously. My spouse is a Doctor, I know a little about the topic. They do good work.

As you said, all cultures change. We can only HOPE that we aren't all converted to Baha'i by 2050.

Maybe you realize you have come off on my half cocked. I don't know.

As for your chip on the shoulder, it is aimed at the term whitey. In an earlier thread today you pulled out the age, location and education card on someone. You accused this person of having a "damn the white man" attitude and acting like they are in their twenties (of course you prefaced it with "no offense meant." A very back handed way of offending, but trying to buffer it.). That is your M.O. I suppose. Good work. You had the angle with me.

Welcome to the board JohnDenver. Glad I found a home here in OKC.

************************************************** *******
East Coast Okie is very educated and hates the following words: Missionary Sex and Whitey. To be continued.

PennyQuilts
10-02-2009, 05:03 AM
I am. Frankly I think that the fact that it takes Heaven and Hell to get these people to do these wonderful things takes the luster off of it. Why don't they just do it because it is the right thing to do? Sorry if I am not impressed by someone who use charity as a means to proselytize or dump their superstitious drivel on others.

You didn't strike me as someone who enjoyed sitting in judgment of people's motivations or conscience. I should think you'd leave that to god or the big doughnut in the sky or whatever. Whether it impresses you or not seems immaterial. Personally, I'm just glad some people are being helped and if someone wants a gold star for doing it, so what? I'm not their confessor. And I'd hate to think that some kid out there is going to get measles or die of an abscessed tooth because I personally was offended that someone would go there to vaccinate them for religious reasons.

You have reduced this to heaven and hell as a motivator. The people I know don't even think in those terms and most christians that I know don't, either. If YOU aren't motivated by hope of heaven or fear of hell, why do you assume other people are? And if you aren't really sure of their motivations, why would you suggest it? What do you really know about why they do this? If you were in the midst of them doing it, it might be a better argument. But if you are assuming you know their motivations based on... what? religious intolerance? Do you really want to take the role of attacking good deeds because you suspect the motives?

PennyQuilts
10-02-2009, 07:30 AM
Aha. Sure is a lot of ways.. like mission trips.

Our ethnocentric world views, blasted on others. Tell them their prayers to their shaman doesn't work, build a church, cloth the women and tell them to have sex in missionary position. Then leave. And pat yourself on the back.

Way to pick out a single word of my post and try to dismiss it all. Way to be defensive. If you can't see that I respect your God.. and I respect others as well. I just don't follow them.

John Denver, you jumped in with this response when the rhetorial question was asked about different ways to spread bigotry. You popped in and suggested mission trips. This following your rude comment about whitey god - apparently that is PC even though using the N word would set the whole board (and probably you) in an uproar.

If you don't want to get a disgruntled response, why add fuel to the fire? All you had to do was explain your position - which in all honesty, seems to have evolved back and forth through the thread. Instead, you use inflamatory language and sit back and act affronted when someone notices it. You didn't stop there - you have made childish comments about words that - according to you - I like and don't like - taken completely out of context and with the silly statement "to be continued." If you don't want to argue, why act like a kid? Why would a grown man write that?

If you have been misunderstood, would it kill you to take ownership of your own words that have contributed to the response? Or are you just going to get your back up and start making cutsey pie remarks about the missionary position, etc.? I mean, honestly, "high five" and all that... can't you agree that sounds pretty damned juvenile? I repeat - why would a grown man write that? And why would you expect to be taken seriously if you are going to "go" there?

JohnDenver
10-02-2009, 08:42 AM
And why would you expect to be taken seriously if you are going to "go" there?

ECO,

I like to have fun. Life doesn't have to be all serious all the time. If I want to knock a softball out of the park, I can do that. Keeps my hair from going gray. If I want to be childish and ask for a high five, hell, I can do that too. Sarcasm is great when dealing with someone whom takes themselves way too seriously, ahem. :ohno: Look, threw an emoticon in there. Is that too childish for your liking?

As far as going back and forth, I have not. There is nothing to own up to. You just don't like my non-old-man-whitey vernacular. To any of the people out there, if you were offended by me calling the Christian God white, I apologize. Seriously, I do. As for thinking the baptism-style missions are offensive, I don't apologize. I don't believe you are helping anyone but yourself. Again, that is just me. This is about our opinions. I will still answer my door and be respectful when you come to save me, every damn weekend. I respect general missions of good will (medical, vaccines, dental, nourishment).

You jumped the gun on getting offended and frankly, are too easy to bait. :poke:

It is over. :fighting2

YouTube - Mika - Relax, Take It Easy (Official Music Video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be6jlCuMvVQ)

PennyQuilts
10-02-2009, 09:27 AM
Okay FINE!

PennyQuilts
10-02-2009, 09:27 AM
Hrmph!

DaveSkater
10-02-2009, 02:11 PM
Leave ECO alone, she's a devout christian and takes her Jesus seriously!

;)

PennyQuilts
10-02-2009, 02:40 PM
Thanks, Dave, but he's right - I'm way too easily baited when I see something that strikes me as unfair. I personally think this just escalated when it wasn't worth it. JohnDenver started out being fair minded, got a little snarky, I jumped on that and then it went from there.

But I still think "whitey" is a way different connotation than "white." It is slang, yes, but derogatory slang and I just hate double standards.

fuzzytoad
10-03-2009, 08:42 AM
You must really hate Leave it to Beaver

HVAC Instructor
10-03-2009, 08:52 AM
ECO,

I like to have fun. Life doesn't have to be all serious all the time. If I want to knock a softball out of the park, I can do that. Keeps my hair from going gray. If I want to be childish and ask for a high five, hell, I can do that too. Sarcasm is great when dealing with someone whom takes themselves way too seriously, ahem. :ohno: Look, threw an emoticon in there. Is that too childish for your liking?

As far as going back and forth, I have not. There is nothing to own up to. You just don't like my non-old-man-whitey vernacular. To any of the people out there, if you were offended by me calling the Christian God white, I apologize. Seriously, I do. As for thinking the baptism-style missions are offensive, I don't apologize. I don't believe you are helping anyone but yourself. Again, that is just me. This is about our opinions. I will still answer my door and be respectful when you come to save me, every damn weekend. I respect general missions of good will (medical, vaccines, dental, nourishment).

You jumped the gun on getting offended and frankly, are too easy to bait. :poke:

It is over. :fighting2

YouTube - Mika - Relax, Take It Easy (Official Music Video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be6jlCuMvVQ)

:congrats: Seems folks are just looking to be "offended" and "outraged" today, especially certain folks here at OKC Talk. They seem to think Christianity is so sacred as to never be criticized in any way and will attack anyone they percieve as not agreeing with their position.

bluedogok
10-05-2009, 09:23 PM
...and some atheists "preach" with an evangelical zeal so much that I see no difference between that type of atheist or a "bible thumper", both are pretty much religious zealots with the only difference is one claims not to have any religion.

I just don't understand how some can have so much vitriol towards what others believe no matter what segment of the debate they are on.

PennyQuilts
10-06-2009, 07:17 AM
...and some atheists "preach" with an evangelical zeal so much that I see no difference between that type of atheist or a "bible thumper", both are pretty much religious zealots with the only difference is one claims not to have any religion.

I just don't understand how some can have so much vitriol towards what others believe no matter what segment of the debate they are on.

Amen, brother.

metro
10-06-2009, 08:58 AM
:congrats: Seems folks are just looking to be "offended" and "outraged" today, especially certain folks here at OKC Talk. They seem to think Christianity is so sacred as to never be criticized in any way and will attack anyone they percieve as not agreeing with their position.

Seems other folks just try to antagonize and get off getting a reaction out of Christians. Goes both ways. :tiphat:

DaveSkater
10-06-2009, 12:57 PM
Not just Christians, but everyone.

HVAC Instructor
10-07-2009, 03:24 PM
Not just Christians, but everyone.

Thought you had me on ignore, Mr. 6'-2" 250#.

HVAC Instructor
10-07-2009, 03:25 PM
Seems other folks just try to antagonize and get off getting a reaction out of Christians. Goes both ways. :tiphat:

So you are saying you can dish it out, but can't take it? Or you should never have to take it because you are a practicioner of a sacred cow religion?

Midtowner
10-09-2009, 01:46 PM
Thought you had me on ignore, Mr. 6'-2" 250#.

You were quoted.

HVAC Instructor
10-09-2009, 02:58 PM
You were quoted.

Nah...He reads my posts but just won't admit to it.

DaveSkater
10-12-2009, 01:32 PM
You were quoted.

I seem to have picked up a secret admirer. Too bad it's not some hot gal that keeps obsessing over my physical stats.

Creepy......

kevinpate
10-12-2009, 01:38 PM
Nah, your stats aren't creepy.

That you publish them, well, maybe a lil' bit.
:Smiley145

DaveSkater
10-12-2009, 01:53 PM
nah, your stats aren't creepy.

That you publish them, well, maybe a lil' bit.
:smiley145

a/s/l ?