Slick Willie is da man if this report is true! The dude's got charisma whether you like him or not, LOL!

N. Korean leader reportedly pardons U.S. journalists - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/08/04/nkorea.clinton/index.html)

(CNN) -- North Korean President Kim Jong Il has pardoned and ordered the release of two U.S. journalists, state-run news agency KCNA said Wednesday.

The announcement came after former U.S. President Bill Clinton met with top North Korean officials in Pyongyang to appeal for the release of Laura Ling and Euna Lee, who had been arrested while reporting from the border between North Korea and China.

"Clinton expressed words of sincere apology to Kim Jong Il for the hostile acts committed by the two American journalists against the DPRK after illegally intruding into it," the news agency reported. "Clinton courteously conveyed to Kim Jong Il an earnest request of the U.S. government to leniently pardon them and send them back home from a humanitarian point of view.

"The meetings had candid and in-depth discussions on the pending issues between the DPRK and the U.S. in a sincere atmosphere and reached a consensus of views on seeking a negotiated settlement of them."

The report said Clinton then conveyed a message from President Obama "expressing profound thanks for this and reflecting views on ways of improving the relations between the two countries."

It added, "The measure taken to release the American journalists is a manifestation of the DPRK's humanitarian and peace-loving policy.

"The DPRK visit of Clinton and his party will contribute to deepening the understanding between the DPRK and the U.S. and building the bilateral confidence."

DPRK is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, the nation's official name.

The two American journalists had been held in the reclusive communist nation since their arrest in March.

Earlier in the day, White House Secretary Robert Gibbs said Clinton was on a "solely private mission to secure the release of two Americans."

Ling and Lee are reporters for California-based Current TV -- a media venture launched by Clinton's former vice president, Al Gore.

The two were sentenced in June to 12 years in prison on charges of entering the country illegally to conduct a smear campaign. Since the United States has no diplomatic relations with North Korea, efforts to resolve the issue had been handled through Sweden, which represents U.S. interests in North Korea.

visit by the former president, whose wife, Hillary Clinton, is now the Obama administration's secretary of state, came about three weeks after the United States dropped a request that Ling and Lee be released on humanitarian grounds. Instead, the United States was seeking amnesty for the women, Hillary Clinton said.

Hear, hear!!!!!

I am waiting to find out what Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and President Obama promised the DPRK in return.

I guess what the Secretary of State couldn't accomplish, ole Bill could.

In any event, I am glad they are returning home. :congrats:

Why did Bill Clinton succeed in N. Korea where U.S. govt failed?

Cafferty File: Tell Jack how you really feel Blog Archive - Why did Bill Clinton succeed in N. Korea where U.S. govt failed? - Blogs from CNN.com (http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2009/08/04/bill-clinton-succeeded-in-n-korea-where-u-s-govt-failed/)

FROM CNN’s Jack Cafferty:

Go figure. Bill Clinton waltzes into North Korea and wins the release of two journalists accused of entering North Korea illegally and engaging in hostile acts.

They were sentenced to 12-years at hard labor. Which in all likelihood they would never have survived.

The U.S. has been trying for weeks to win their release. From President Obama to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, all efforts have been rejected up to this point.

And then Bubba comes along and presto — the two women are free to go.

Makes you wonder what gives… The old expression is, “Beware of a stranger bearing gifts.” And no one is any stranger than Kim Jong Il, the weird little dictator who runs North Korea and goes around threatening to blow up the world.

Nuclear tests, missile firings… he’s a real day at the beach. And he refuses to even listen to the international community when they suggest he give up his nuclear weapons program in exchange for membership in the community of nations and things like food. North Korea has no food… But Kim could care less.

Recently this absurd regime had taken to calling our Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton names — things like: “She looks like a primary school girl and sometimes a pensioner going shopping.” They called her a “funny lady unaware of the elementary etiquette of the international community.”

Now Hillary’s husband walks in and walks out with these two prisoners. Very, very strange… But the women, their families and the rest of us will take it. Way to go, President Clinton.

Here’s my question to you: What does it say that Bill Clinton succeeded in North Korea where the U.S. government failed?

---end---

Get that man an intern!

I am waiting to find out what Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and President Obama promised the DPRK in return.

I guess what the Secretary of State couldn't accomplish, ole Bill could.

In any event, I am glad they are returning home. :congrats:

maybe Bill is just trying to further bury that embarrassing scandal involving the blue dress with the solitary white polka dot that occurred a decade ago.

and so now im wondering, what type of personal gratuities he will recieve from the two lovely almond-eyed journalists he freed from captivity.

Hope Hillary doesnt read these threads.

Get that man an intern!

Now THAT was funny! :LolLolLol

maybe Bill is just trying to further bury that embarrassing scandal involving the blue dress with the solitary white polka dot that occurred a decade ago.

and so now im wondering, what type of personal gratuities he will recieve from the two lovely almond-eyed journalists he freed from captivity.

Hope Hillary doesnt read these threads.

You stated what I've been thinking all afternoon! Well, I give the man credit, and his mojo went up a 1000%, and who knows what kind of clout this will give him in the future when he needs it. Not only do those two women owe him quite a favor, but I'm sure Lisa Ling will need to grant him any wish he wants too! He basically saved their lives. Not bad for a grey-haired old horndog, not bad at all!

This could make talk radio VERY interesting in the morning!

Clinton IS the man!! :yourock:

[B]Here’s my question to you: What does it say that Bill Clinton succeeded in North Korea where the U.S. government failed?

---end---

It says that the deal was already sealed before he headed over...No way he would have gone if it hadn't already been decided

It says that the deal was already sealed before he headed over...No way he would have gone if it hadn't already been decided


And you know this how, exactly?

Or is this, most likely, simply the pre-planned parroting from the right?

From Townhall's Steven Hurst

News Headlines - Analysis: Obama lets NKorea's Kim save face : Townhall.com (http://townhall.com/news/politics-elections/2009/08/05/analysis_obama_lets_nkoreas_kim_save_face)

A few pertinent quotes

Daniel Sneider, associate director of research at Stanford University's Shorenstein Asia-Pacific Research Center, said the journalists' release followed weeks of quiet negotiations between the State Department and the North Korean mission to the United Nations.

Clinton "didn't go to negotiate this, he went to reap the fruits of the negotiation," Sneider said.


Pardoning Ling and Lee satisfied North Korea's need to continue maintaining that the two women had committed a crime while dispatching the former president as emissary served the Obama administration's desire not to expend diplomatic capital winning their freedom, Sneider said.

As a former leader, Clinton was a good choice to represent the United States in the delicate deliberations, according to Sneider. He had the cachet to get an audience with Kim but could claim to be acting as a private citizen.

Looks like Clinton was simply the messenger.

John Bolton weighs in writing this column for the Washington Post.

washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/04/AR2009080401486.html)


The Obama administration characterized Bill Clinton's unexpected visit to Pyongyang to secure the release of two American reporters, held unjustifiably by North Korea for nearly five months, as a private, humanitarian mission

But North Korea has seen it very differently. Former president Clinton was met at Pyongyang's airport by notables led by Kim Kye Gwan, the North's long-time chief nuclear negotiator, an unmistakable symbol of linkage. In Pyongyang's view, the two reporters are pawns in the larger game of enhancing the regime's legitimacy and gaining direct access to important U.S. figures. The reporters' arrest, show trial and subsequent imprisonment (twelve years hard labor) was hostage taking, essentially an act of state terrorism. So the Clinton trip is a significant propaganda victory for North Korea, whether or not he carried an official message from President Obama.

Folks, as much as you want to think Bill Clinton had anything to do with winning the freedom of the two journalists, snap back to reality. Bill Clinton agreed to go once the final outcome had been pre-determined. He agreed to go there on a "humanitarian" mission and not as part of any negotiation. NK sent a message thru a phone call of one of the journalists that they would be willing to discuss the issue if Bill Clinton came to win their release. Behind the scenes negotiantions gained assurance this would happen so Mr. Clinton agreed to go. So, in reality, Mr. Clinton had nothing to do with their release other than by the presence of his body. The NK president has such an inferiority complex that he hungers for the legitimacy such a visit gives him. He made sure there were plenty of photographs of him standing, sitting, shaking hands, eating with, etc - Mr. Clinton. The real congrats go to the behind the scenes negotiations and <gulp> the Obama admin. The arrival of the journalists in CA to day was touching but it was also such a beautifully staged Democratic Party event I had to laugh. What a wonderful opportunity for them all to pat each other on the back on all the major networks!

I realize at this juncture it is wrong of me to feel this way, but I also felt there was a need for the journalists to offer an apology to the American people for trying to sneak into N. Korea and then causing all this consternation when they were caught. I wonder what the total cost to the taxpayers and what cost in negotiating "cards" we lost by their poor judgement.

Don't forget, they were working for AlGore's CurrentTV.

Another analysis from the Wall Street Journal

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124938154079404323.html

The question is, what did we give them?

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy Lisa Ling's reporting and documentaries. They can be facinating. However, the skeptic in me saw right thru the charade and realized it was nothing more than a Democratic Party back patting-fest as much as it was a touching return of two very relieved women from a country that could have just as easily imprisoned them the rest of their lives.

At least for a little bit Kim Jong was not
So ronery,
Seems like no one takes him serirousry

Folks, as much as you want to think Bill Clinton had anything to do with winning the freedom of the two journalists, snap back to reality. Bill Clinton agreed to go once the final outcome had been pre-determined. He agreed to go there on a "humanitarian" mission and not as part of any negotiation. NK sent a message thru a phone call of one of the journalists that they would be willing to discuss the issue if Bill Clinton came to win their release. Behind the scenes negotiantions gained assurance this would happen so Mr. Clinton agreed to go. So, in reality, Mr. Clinton had nothing to do with their release other than by the presence of his body. The NK president has such an inferiority complex that he hungers for the legitimacy such a visit gives him. He made sure there were plenty of photographs of him standing, sitting, shaking hands, eating with, etc - Mr. Clinton. The real congrats go to the behind the scenes negotiations and <gulp> the Obama admin. The arrival of the journalists in CA to day was touching but it was also such a beautifully staged Democratic Party event I had to laugh. What a wonderful opportunity for them all to pat each other on the back on all the major networks!

This is simply political rhetoric, no different than the spinners on the left did during Bush's presidency.

Do you have any facts to back up your allegations? No more rhetoric please, just the source of your information.

Yes, the right is just like the left. This is simply political rhetoric, no different than the spinners on the left did during Bush's presidency.

It's great news to have these two back at home unharmed. To credit Bill Clinton for doing this on his own is a stretch.

http://law.jrank.org/pages/8357/Logan-Act.html

LOGAN ACT :

§ 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both. This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply, himself or his agent, to any foreign government or the agents thereof for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.

coming soon: a cheezy porno starring a Bill Clinton-esque impersonator who bargains with a dictating stern asian man for the release of two hostage asian females.

This is simply political rhetoric, no different than the spinners on the left did during Bush's presidency.

Do you have any facts to back up your allegations? No more rhetoric please, just the source of your information.

Yes, the right is just like the left. This is simply political rhetoric, no different than the spinners on the left did during Bush's presidency.

HVAC - I'm not sure what you are asking. Most of what I said came directly from the broadcasts of the event as it happened live about 9AM this morning. What political rhetoric are you referring to?

HVAC - I'm not sure what you are asking. Most of what I said came directly from the broadcasts of the event as it happened live about 9AM this morning. What political rhetoric are you referring to?

Sorry Mugs, I should have been more specific; I was in a rush when I quoted your post. What I was referring to was the comments that were clearly opinion and appeared to be rhetorical such as the comment about the democrat photo op, which happened simply because of the media coverage.

Otherwise it was a good post, so my bad for jumping the gun there and not giving credit where it was due.

And you know this how, exactly?

Or is this, most likely, simply the pre-planned parroting from the right?

Definitely not from the right but I just figured there is no way old Bill flies 18 hours with the decent chance of getting shot down by a 5'2'' angry Asian

No problem. It was an opinion but the opinion was because the event was so wonderfully staged with the glory going to Bill Clinton and Al Gore when the outcome had been decided before the plane left US soil for NK. That is thanks to the Obama admin. The news commentaries made it clear that Clinton had required that his mission woudl be purely to pick the 2 up and not be a negotiating meeting before he left. Its great the reporters are back on US soil but their arrival was a wonderful Dem. backpatting opportunity.

§ 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof

Are you saying that Bill Clinton had intercourse with North Korea?

Are you saying that Bill Clinton had intercourse with North Korea?

Bill Clinton would have intercourse anywhere he can get it. Who knows what happened on that plane ride back to the states.

Actually, it is due to the legal representation of the United States of America ,through the State Department,who through negotiations with a loon aka Kim Jong.
I am just glad they're home.
I been wondering if NK troops crossed the Chinese/NK border and snatched them.
And most recently the 3 Americans who while on "vacation in Iraq" "wondered" into Iran.

And you know this how, exactly?

Or is this, most likely, simply the pre-planned parroting from the right?

Yeah, we all get together and pre plan stuff. Just ask the left. They always claim that.

coming soon: a cheezy porno starring a Bill Clinton-esque impersonator who bargains with a dictating stern asian man for the release of two hostage asian females.

Hahaha!

Yeah, we all get together and pre plan stuff. Just ask the left. They always claim that.

Come on ECO. Are you saying there are no activists who push the party position and talking points to the public from the RNC...just like the left and the DNC?

If you want to see if what she says is word for word, just listen to the Reps they have talking points ,Reps say almost word for word the talking points on healthcare reform for instance, Its almost like they are brainless zombies aka Rush's dittoheads.

coming soon: a cheezy porno starring a Bill Clinton-esque impersonator who bargains with a dictating stern asian man for the release of two hostage asian females.

That would be an excellent plot! You could have ******man* (the guy's actual screen name) play clinton!

If you want to see if what she says is word for word, just listen to the Reps they have talking points ,Reps say almost word for word the talking points on healthcare reform for instance, Its almost like they are brainless zombies aka Rush's dittoheads.

gmwise - both sides do the same thing but don't insult our intelligence by trying to say Rush runs the Republican party - far from it though he does influence it. Mainly, he is the main voice of the conservative end of the party. There are many, many Republican's who don't toe this line.

I don't know how many times I have heard the exact same thing you accuse the Republicans of done by the Democrats. The same buzzwords, the same phrases - obviously from talking points faxed around to party leadership and top level supporters from the DNC.

Don't try to sit there and say its the Dittoheads only. It's the Obamaheads, the Clintonistas and the goose-stepping marxist MoveOn.orgies doing the EXACT same thing.

MUGGSY,

1. I dont waste time talking to those who have never served in the military.
2. I dont talk to alcoholics, to be honest they worthless creatures.
3. Republicans have shown more often to be the loony religious right wingers, and if you dare to check and verified the goose steppers were German Nazis/Fascists ,the extreme right wing of that nation.
4. Please try to be just a bit more educated, then the next high school dropout who lives in a trailer park, beer guzzling, bible thumping moron.
Now finally I hope you use the Internet to learn instead of blogging your ..uh thoughts.
Good luck to you..
Now go sleep it off.

MUGGSY,

1. I dont waste time talking to those who have never served in the military.
Wow, I bet you have one bevy of macho friends. Why do you waste your time here. Many of us have never been in the big bad military. :sofa: :tiphat:

Guess I don't get the gracious blessing of a discussion from GMWISE, either...no military here...but given the choice between being graced in such a way or being called a "bible thumping moron," I'll take the latter. The person hurling the insults is the one with the issue.

As for the original topic, is there anyone here who honestly believes Clinton brokered this deal? This isn't a left-right issue, its a politics and protocol issue. You never send anyone of that magnitude (eg, an ex-President) on a matter like this unless the particulars were in place beforehand. The high-profile leader is sent to formalize the issue and lend credibility to it, while maintaining a formal diplomatic distance.

Unless I'm mistaken, we do not have formal diplomatic relations with North Korea, thus we're not going to send a "formal" representative to engage in ANY sort of negotiations. Everything is accomplished behind the scenes, through intermediaries. Clinton was sent to create the illusion of formality to allow Kim Jong Il some measure of credibility in a situation that wasn't helping N. Korea's perception by the rest of the world in the midst of their sabre rattling.

North Korea, for its own purposes, needed a PR moment. Obama, unofficially, sent Clinton to give them one. The real issue here is that no one, not even China, really knows how to deal with North Korea these days. I read an article in, I believe Newsweek or Time just a few weeks ago that indicated not even the Chinese government knows quite how to deal with North Korea right now, and they aren't particularly pleased with their threatening talk. There's also great volatility within North Korean leadership right now, given Kim Jong Il's health, and it is possible their rhetoric is to ward off what they percieve to be a vulnerability as they transition leadership to Il's inevitable successor.

All this relates to these reporters in that perhaps, finally, North Korea needed to look as if it had some semblance of sanity in its government, and unofficial contacts gave the US the idea that there was an opportunity to broker their release, and Clinton was sent to give an implicit US imprimatur to it. I find it highly unlikely this is the end of the diplomatic story between us and them.

But then again, that's just my opinion, and that means its comes from a "moron Bible thumper," so take it for what its worth. I'm sure gmwise will take no small effort to point out to everyone else what a stupid, drunken moron I am.

-soonerdave

As for the original topic, is there anyone here who honestly believes Clinton brokered this deal? This isn't a left-right issue, its a politics and protocol issue. You never send anyone of that magnitude (eg, an ex-President) on a matter like this unless the particulars were in place beforehand. The high-profile leader is sent to formalize the issue and lend credibility to it, while maintaining a formal diplomatic distance.


Certainly the Obama administration approved it and set the stage, but Clinton got the job done and accolades are in order. Two Americans were returned home as a result of good planning and good diplomacy.

Why not just celebrate, give credit where credit is due, and leave the political sniping out of it?

Bill Clinton would have intercourse anywhere he can get it. Who knows what happened on that plane ride back to the states.

I think in this case, whatever "thanks" he got on that plane were fully justified! If someone rescued me from a lifetime of misery and possible death, well, you can be sure I'd thank them in most any way they wanted! ;-) I look forward to Ling and Lee going on Oprah or something like that and telling their story.

I think it's interesting that no mention has been made of the reason Ling and Lee were caught in North Korea. Lets spotlight that they were caught in North Korea illegally after having snuck into the country from China with the help of their version of a "coyote." What happened to the poor Chinese "Coyote?" Second, they were there on an undercover reporting assignment for the CURRENT Cable TV Network owned and headed by Al Gore. You can be certain that Ling and Lee were not there to do a project to glorify the Dear Leader. Essentially, Mr. Gore's network set the two up for this. I am quite happy they got out because they are, in reality, two very fine journalists. But, with Gore's blessing, they were clearly there illegally and in reality, could have severely damaged US foreign policy efforts with NK.