View Full Version : A capital idea! A city center in Edmond! (just an idea)



Sooner&RiceGrad
01-27-2005, 08:14 PM
Cities down in Texas, like Woodlands and Sugar Land, both in Houston, have been planning these glitzy city centre's, and I think it is time for Edmond, and maybe even Norman to build one.

http://www.ci.sugar-land.tx.us/townsquare.htm

Like this...

floater
01-28-2005, 08:09 AM
I'm hoping that's what'll occur on the OU property east of I-35 north of Robinson. But not for downtown Edmond. If you want great downtown development that's urban, look no farther than Deep Deuce and "north" Bricktown -- they've worked with what's already there and made it much better. I'm not that familiar with Edmond, but if developers had merged the retail of Spring Creek Plaza with downtown and added some public spaces and housing, you'd have a more authentic downtown than these instant places.

Midtowner
01-28-2005, 03:39 PM
Spring Creek and old downtown are quite a ways apart.

UCO does plan on pushing for the development of its own "campus corner" sometime in the future. Maybe something like this could happen near campus?

A school of 16,000 students virtually assures that housing and restaurants will be filled.

Patrick
01-28-2005, 09:43 PM
Downtown Edmond is probably too far away from UCO to create a continuous town center area, but something close to campus would be a plus, possibly south or west of campus. Seems like the restaurants and stores along University Drive have always created somewhat of a campus corner feel, although much more retail and restaurant development needs to occur along this stretch. The university needs to buy up some of this property and sell it for the purpose of creating such a stretch development. A few years ago, UCO purchased the Dominos Pizza on University Drive, but they replaced it with a parking lot. I would've liked to have seen them sell it to another restaurant.

floater
01-28-2005, 10:29 PM
Spring Creek and old downtown are quite a ways apart.

UCO does plan on pushing for the development of its own "campus corner" sometime in the future. Maybe something like this could happen near campus?

A school of 16,000 students virtually assures that housing and restaurants will be filled.

I didn't mean physically. If a small downtown can bring national retail to complement the local stores, in a nonboxy setting, that is no small feat.

Midtowner
01-28-2005, 10:30 PM
Downtown Edmond is probably too far away from UCO to create a continuous town center area, but something close to campus would be a plus, possibly south or west of campus. Seems like the restaurants and stores along University Drive have always created somewhat of a campus corner feel, although much more retail and restaurant development needs to occur along this stretch. The university needs to buy up some of this property and sell it for the purpose of creating such a stretch development. A few years ago, UCO purchased the Dominos Pizza on University Drive, but they replaced it with a parking lot. I would've liked to have seen them sell it to another restaurant.

It depends on the restaurant. I heard there was talk of another Eskimo Joe's going in there. The trouble with a bar type restaurant is that there are so many churches in the area. Edmond city ordinances require bars to be so far away from churches. In this case, I think the church that queered the deal was a Bah'aii Church or something like that.

Patrick
01-31-2005, 09:18 PM
Maybe they'll have better luck adding a bar or two over near the Ramada on the east side of the property. It's far enough away from the churches.

Midtowner
01-31-2005, 09:34 PM
Maybe they'll have better luck adding a bar or two over near the Ramada on the east side of the property. It's far enough away from the churches.

Too far away from the residential foot traffic. It's kind of a dumb city ordinance in my opinion. A little too 1917 for my tastes. I read the Edmond Municipal Code once. There are some strange ordinances regarding bars and pool halls. I seem to recall that you're supposed to be able to see the bar from the sidewalk where bars are concerned. Children under 13 are not allowed in pool halls, things of that nature.

Patrick
01-31-2005, 09:37 PM
Anyone want to offer the Bah'aii Church some money for their building? Maybe UCO could. That's a good way to get them outta there.

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-31-2005, 09:41 PM
What is a bah'aii church?

Midtowner
01-31-2005, 09:41 PM
Anyone want to offer the Bah'aii Church some money for their building? Maybe UCO could. That's a good way to get them outta there.

Wouldn't matter. There's that First Christian Church on the corner, the mosque (the white building), the Christ Scientist Library on Boulevard and Edwards, the Episcopal Church accross from the BSU, I'm not sure how they categorize that Morman Student Center.

Why do we need an ordinance about bars being next to churches? What is the point of that?

Of course, I'm Catholic. I've had beers with the priest in the rectory following church functions :D

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-31-2005, 09:42 PM
Sure it wasn't grape juice?

Patrick
01-31-2005, 09:43 PM
Why do we need an ordinance about bars being next to churches? What is the point of that?


Excellent question. I'm not sure there's a good answer to it, although I'm sure churches would beg to differ.

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-31-2005, 09:47 PM
Well, unless we want the French Quarter in OKC, there is an obvious answer. Speaking of Mardi Gras...

Midtowner
01-31-2005, 10:02 PM
Sure it wasn't grape juice?

Unless grape juice comes in a silver can, fizzes and tastes like beer, no.

Midtowner
01-31-2005, 10:03 PM
Well, unless we want the French Quarter in OKC, there is an obvious answer. Speaking of Mardi Gras...

Never go to that. Sugar Bowl was great, but the Mardi Gras crowd is horrible.

New Orleans is a filthy, filthy city.

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-31-2005, 10:39 PM
I was just joking.

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-31-2005, 10:42 PM
Pretend this is an edit, firefox is acting up again: What I meant was that French Quarter, while home to excelant night life, has churches next to bars. And we don't want to become another French Quarter, do we?

Midtowner
01-31-2005, 10:45 PM
Pretend this is an edit, firefox is acting up again: What I meant was that French Quarter, while home to excelant night life, has churches next to bars. And we don't want to become another French Quarter, do we?

The French Quarter is something that could never occur in OKC. In fact, in the French Quarter, proper, no, I cannot think of but one case where that occurs, and that is in a centuries old Church.

Now, outside the French Quarter, on the outskirts, there are several churches.

As far as Edmond becoming the French quarter...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAH

okay, I'm done.

Sooner&RiceGrad
01-31-2005, 10:47 PM
Well, my point is not to be logomached the hell out of, it's fairly simple, and has some meaning. Bars and churches don't go together,

Midtowner
01-31-2005, 10:50 PM
Well, my point is not to be logomached the hell out of, it's fairly simple, and has some meaning. Bars and churches don't go together,

Why?

Do they operate during the same hours?

Nope.

Are they attended by the same people? Usually not.

***

How about this? I can't operate a bar, but I can have a video store with an adult section next door to a church.

I fail to see the connection. Does God condemn beer?

okcpulse
01-31-2005, 11:42 PM
The night life will not happen in Edmond. If it does, night life will be slow in the making. Since I moved from Edmond to Oklahoma City, I have seen quite a transition in Edmond with all the new restaurants, and a more upscale feel to a high-income suburb. For years, Edmond was a quiet money-making bedroom community. That has changed, as Edmond reflects the high per capita income more so than it did years ago.

Here's what hasn't changed. Too many Edmond police officers with too little to do. Many officers resort to hounding teenagers, and Municipal Judge Mike Synar will continue throwing the book at teens who break the curfew law, even if they are not trouble-makers. There aren't any nice night clubs in Edmond, and even with UCO I doubt any pubs, micro-breweries or night clubs will want to put money in a town that allows too many cop traps. It wouldn't be surprising if Edmond police officers began hounding college students as well, even those over 21.

Midtowner
02-01-2005, 08:00 AM
The night life will not happen in Edmond. If it does, night life will be slow in the making. Since I moved from Edmond to Oklahoma City, I have seen quite a transition in Edmond with all the new restaurants, and a more upscale feel to a high-income suburb. For years, Edmond was a quiet money-making bedroom community. That has changed, as Edmond reflects the high per capita income more so than it did years ago.

Here's what hasn't changed. Too many Edmond police officers with too little to do. Many officers resort to hounding teenagers, and Municipal Judge Mike Synar will continue throwing the book at teens who break the curfew law, even if they are not trouble-makers. There aren't any nice night clubs in Edmond, and even with UCO I doubt any pubs, micro-breweries or night clubs will want to put money in a town that allows too many cop traps. It wouldn't be surprising if Edmond police officers began hounding college students as well, even those over 21.

They already do. My firm is representing a guy who was over 21 and had a run in with Edmond cops. I can't really get specific, but let's just say that we have a pretty good civil rights case against Edmond. Their officers are thugs. They really pick on kids. Go down and watch the municipal docket there and try to make a case for me that this is not the case. If you are successful, you win a cookie :D

It's still a very 'small town' police force unfortunately.

I think, however, that a 'strip' near UCO could really work. Something within walking distance of campus would certainly go a long ways as far as keeping drunk drivers off of the street. As far as UCO goes, what's good for UCO is good for Edmond. Edmond needs to remember who's buttering their bread. A lot of Edmond residents attend the school. Many of Edmond's best jobs are with the school. The school means millions upon millions of dollars to the Edmond economy. Not to mention the fact that Roger Webb, UCO's President and his staff have been aggressively trying to lure Major League Soccer to UCO's stadium.

That being said, I do think UCO is quite aware of the situation. A 'strip' somewhere near the stadium could do quite well. There is a night life in Edmond. You just have to look a little harder than most places. Currently, all they have are a few dive bars -- Hudson's, Wolf Trap, Lumpies. I've heard talk of an Eskimo Joe's locating near campus.

Sooner&RiceGrad
02-01-2005, 03:00 PM
You earlier asked if god has a problem w/ beer, and not w/ adult video's etc. I am not going to run into the schpeel of my interpretation of the Good Book, but I want to remark that such things are already illegal in the State of Oklahoma. Now, a video store w/ an adult section is entirely differant. These places attract an entirely differant crowd, and should be moved away from churches out of respect.

Midtowner
02-01-2005, 03:14 PM
You earlier asked if god has a problem w/ beer, and not w/ adult video's etc. I am not going to run into the schpeel of my interpretation of the Good Book, but I want to remark that such things are already illegal in the State of Oklahoma. Now, a video store w/ an adult section is entirely differant. These places attract an entirely differant crowd, and should be moved away from churches out of respect.

Well, Blockbuster at 2nd and Broadway is almost across the street from the First Christian Church at 2nd & Boulevard. They do carry plenty of films that are of erm.. questionable suitability for viewing by children.

Of course, I don't think sex, nudity, etc. are things that are necessarily 'of the devil' either.

I still fail to see how having a bar next to a church is 'disrespectful'. What things are illegal in the state of Oklahoma? Adult videos? Drinking beer?

Just so you know, adult videos aren't exactly illegal. Just adult videos containing certain acts are illegal here. However, they are still readily available at the KT Video Store right across the border. I hear they have tatoos that way as well.


... ah yes.. tatoos.. yet another thing that this state seems to believe is 'of the devil'.

If it weren't for some dumb 14 year old back in '42 or so getting all liquored up and tatooed at an army base, we'd still be able to put all the Nascar numbers we wanted to on our arms..

Sooner&RiceGrad
02-01-2005, 03:30 PM
Good one. But, isn't it DW's Adult Videos, if memory of when they were permitted to advertise serves me right?

I did not say drinking was disrespectful, this is a completely differant post. I said adult video stores are, in that post, where I mentioned disrespect to the church. Now, if you are talking about a Blockbuster I think they may have 2 or 3 adult videos in your avg store. It is undoubtly safe to let a kid roam the place, besides that aren't all of our movies becoming questionable? All they do is rent them out. It's Hollywood that is to blame and isn't being blamed enough.

Midtowner
02-01-2005, 04:10 PM
Good one. But, isn't it DW's Adult Videos, if memory of when they were permitted to advertise serves me right?

I did not say drinking was disrespectful, this is a completely differant post. I said adult video stores are, in that post, where I mentioned disrespect to the church. Now, if you are talking about a Blockbuster I think they may have 2 or 3 adult videos in your avg store. It is undoubtly safe to let a kid roam the place, besides that aren't all of our movies becoming questionable? All they do is rent them out. It's Hollywood that is to blame and isn't being blamed enough.

No, I'd say the people that buy/rent them are to blame.

Yeah, DW's and KT's both exist on the border. Not sure about the advertising. I've only been to one with a few fraternity brothers on a road trip. I think it was KT's. I don't really feel the need to ever return there.

Then back to our original point of contention.. why no bars next to churches? I'll throw another thing out there: Most bars don't even operate on Sundays (that I know of), they do little business on Wednesdays (I used to be in a band that had regular Wednesday gigs, trust me... dead). It's not the same clientelle. I think it's absolutely beyond silly that the presence of a bar would offend anyone.

Sooner&RiceGrad
02-01-2005, 04:13 PM
The presence of one bar, if that is your point, is offenseless. The presence of an entire French Quarter is quite offensive.

Midtowner
02-01-2005, 04:31 PM
The presence of one bar, if that is your point, is offenseless. The presence of an entire French Quarter is quite offensive.

There is only one French Quarter in the entire United States.

Given all of the places one could pop up, Edmond ain't one of those places.

Sooner&RiceGrad
02-01-2005, 04:37 PM
Oh... gosh. Campus Corner is turning into quite the classy booze joint. Bricktown will never stoop, atleast we know that much. I also think soem of the inner south side is pretty rough. Undoubtly, OKC's little French Quarter is along NW 23rd Street.

Midtowner
02-01-2005, 04:44 PM
Oh... gosh. Campus Corner is turning into quite the classy booze joint. Bricktown will never stoop, atleast we know that much. I also think soem of the inner south side is pretty rough. Undoubtly, OKC's little French Quarter is along NW 23rd Street.

Which part? I know of a bowling alley on 23rd, but as far as nightlife goes.... Where???

Sooner&RiceGrad
02-01-2005, 04:49 PM
The Blue Note on Harvey is one, there is a mega piercing venue a block over... care for me to go further away from Broadway?

As for the Blue Note is concerned, aren't they the crossdresser bar that the Flaming Lips came from?

Midtowner
02-01-2005, 05:00 PM
They're very old. I recall my father used to go there during his undergrad years.

I'm pretty sure it's just a standard blues joint though.

As far as 23rd and Harvey, the French Quarter, it is not.

Ever been to the French Quarter???

Sooner&RiceGrad
02-01-2005, 05:02 PM
Spring Break, 19... somethingorother. My point is that we certainly don't want sleeze next to respectable structures. In fact, on Classen, across from Heritage Hills, is a gothic bar in what was once a church. Is that over the line?

edit: A church is what is often reffered to as "the lords house" and just b/c of what these symbolize, just like FLAG BURNING, it is flat out wrong.

Midtowner
02-01-2005, 06:56 PM
Spring Break, 19... somethingorother. My point is that we certainly don't want sleeze next to respectable structures. In fact, on Classen, across from Heritage Hills, is a gothic bar in what was once a church. Is that over the line?

edit: A church is what is often reffered to as "the lords house" and just b/c of what these symbolize, just like FLAG BURNING, it is flat out wrong.

It's only a church so long as that is what it's used for. Since then, that building has been the site of gay bars, bars that have gone down because of drugs, and much more. It is actually very near another church.

I don't really object though. I'd rather someone do something with it than let it sit there and rot. Would you object if they paint nude portraits in the former Christian Scientist Church off of Robinson? (set to become a art center)

Sooner&RiceGrad
02-01-2005, 07:02 PM
No. What has ticked me off about that is the type of people it will attract.

Midtowner
02-01-2005, 07:07 PM
No. What has ticked me off about that is the type of people it will attract.

They have to go somewhere. That's the great thing about living in the big city though. You have a lot of places to go. I can tell you for certain, I'll never visit that place. Do I support their right to exist and to serve their clientelle? Absolutely!

Sooner&RiceGrad
02-01-2005, 07:10 PM
Yes, good point. I digress. Back to your first question, don't you find the body to be a sacred thing, if used appropriately?

Midtowner
02-01-2005, 08:38 PM
Yes, good point. I digress. Back to your first question, don't you find the body to be a sacred thing, if used appropriately?

Explain?

rxis
02-10-2005, 01:54 AM
i don't think having a gothic bar inside a former church is over the line
why would should it matter?

Midtowner
02-10-2005, 08:12 AM
i don't think having a gothic bar inside a former church is over the line
why would should it matter?

It doesn't.

In Edmond, there is an old church over on Boulevard that was purchased by UCO to add a new theater venue. It's currently awaiting some seriously needed rennovations, however, I know they've already had a Rocky Horror production there.

They're just buildings, not sacred cows.

Patrick
02-10-2005, 11:01 AM
I agree with you guys. I think church people a lot of times get too wrapped up in the idea that the church is a building. The church is not a building, but rather is a group of people joined together to worship God.

Once a church moves out of a building, if they can find another use for it, I personally don't see the problem.

One problem I do have with that Gothic Club on Classen, is that they don't maintain their building. That building is becoming quite an eyesore on Classen. I'd much rather it be torn down and replaced with a nice Midtown office building.