I am deployed to Afghanistan so time on the computer is limited. Haven't seen anything on the development of the new building. Have they canceled it???

No, it is still underway. They recently named the contractor, and I believe they are planning for the initial site work to begin this Fall. They claim this project is fully financed and was not affected by the banking crisis.

Construction is set to start Oct. 1.

This building will be an amazing landmark for OKC but does anyone else agree with me that it might be TOO tall for the surrounding buildings? I almost wish they had stopped at maybe 750 feet and then built a 2nd smaller and complementary tower. It will be cool to see such a landmark in OKC tho. one way or the other.

Not at all...I think the height will spur OTHER development of high-rises...but...we know this will not happen immediately. Look to Charlotte, NC for an example... :)

I wouldn't be surprised if things are delayed a little. The work to get to the OK Tower Dock is a month or more behind schedule.

Charlotte was lucky enough to have 2 of the biggest bank holding companies in the country move or build in the downtown. OKC desparetely needs more diversification and figure out a way to keep the businesses we have. Other than Oil & Gas, we've lost every major HQ we've had - and even a few O & G's.

I don't think Devon cared about the height of the other buildings downtown when considering how large their own should be. They probably figured out how much space they simply needed to continue to run their business.

I am deployed to Afghanistan so time on the computer is limited. Haven't seen anything on the development of the new building. Have they canceled it???

Take care of yourself in Afghanistan. And thanks for your service.

Pete mentioned constuction starting October 1st. Devon has stuck with that date for awhile now, so Im sure it hasnt been delayed. But does starting construction mean first shovel or first road cone and GC trailer set-up?

Also I'm hoping that they will have a construction cam like they did for OSU's stadium renovations. Anyone know if thats a possibility?

I'm sure someone downtown will start a webcam if Devon doesn't.

And I believe that Oct. 1 date is for the parking garage expansion, which is the first phase. Still, it will be great to see things in motion.

Other than Oil & Gas, we've lost every major HQ we've had - and even a few O & G's.

Sonic
Hobby Lobby/Mardel
Midfirst Bank
American Fidelity
Love's
Advanced Academics
Express Personnel

Also:
- W.H. Braum's Ice Cream began in the state of Kansas in 1933, but is now headquartered in Oklahoma City, OK. Today, Braum's owns seven farms and ranches, totaling over 40,000 acres (62 square miles).
Others you might be less familiar with but are significant:
- Long Wave Incorporatedis a privately owned, HUBZone Certified, small business established in 1995. Specializing in military communications and XML-related technologies, Long Wave is located in Oklahoma City, OK with offices in Vienna, VA, Fort Worth, TX and San Diego, CA. and it currently provides services and has employees in 15 states.
- Tronox Incorporated is the world's third-largest producer and marketer of titanium dioxide, a preferred white pigment that whitens and opacifies paint, plastics, paper, ink and hundreds of everyday products. Headquartered in Oklahoma City, OK, Tronox operates five titanium dioxide facilities in North America, Europe and Australia. They also produce electrolytic and specialty chemicals at facilities in the United States at Henderson, Nevada, Hamilton, Mississippi, and Soda Springs, Idaho. Tronox is going through bankruptcy right now, which many blame on Kerr-McGee and Anadarko Petroleum's merger and dumping of liabilities during the spin-off of Tronox. The matter is in court right now and could determine whether Tronox emerges as a strong company or faces demise.
All of the companies have regional or national operations.

The corporate headquarters lost over the past few years include Flemming Foods, which went bankrupt and pretty much ceased to exist after leaving OKC, and Kerr-McGee, which had a rapidly diminishing workforce when it was merged into Houston-based Anadarko Petroleum.

Is OKC in need of more corporate headquarters that aren't energy related? Probably. But Dan, you've got to careful when making broad statements like this, especially on OKC Talk. The fact squad will get you every time. Welcome to OKC Talk!

Chesapeake too!

And don't forget Sandridge actually relocated to OKC.


Advantage, fact squad! :)

Also:
- W.H. Braum's Ice Cream began in the state of Kansas in 1933, but is now headquartered in Oklahoma City, OK. Today, Braum's owns seven farms and ranches, totaling over 40,000 acres (62 square miles).
Others you might be less familiar with but are significant:
- Long Wave Incorporatedis a privately owned, HUBZone Certified, small business established in 1995. Specializing in military communications and XML-related technologies, Long Wave is located in Oklahoma City, OK with offices in Vienna, VA, Fort Worth, TX and San Diego, CA. and it currently provides services and has employees in 15 states.
- Tronox Incorporated is the world's third-largest producer and marketer of titanium dioxide, a preferred white pigment that whitens and opacifies paint, plastics, paper, ink and hundreds of everyday products. Headquartered in Oklahoma City, OK, Tronox operates five titanium dioxide facilities in North America, Europe and Australia. They also produce electrolytic and specialty chemicals at facilities in the United States at Henderson, Nevada, Hamilton, Mississippi, and Soda Springs, Idaho. Tronox is going through bankruptcy right now, which many blame on Kerr-McGee and Anadarko Petroleum's merger and dumping of liabilities during the spin-off of Tronox. The matter is in court right now and could determine whether Tronox emerges as a strong company or faces demise.
All of the companies have regional or national operations.

The corporate headquarters lost over the past few years include Flemming Foods, which went bankrupt and pretty much ceased to exist after leaving OKC, and Kerr-McGee, which had a rapidly diminishing workforce when it was merged into Houston-based Anadarko Petroleum.

Is OKC in need of more corporate headquarters that aren't energy related? Probably. But Dan, you've got to careful when making broad statements like this, especially on OKC Talk. The fact squad will get you every time. Welcome to OKC Talk!Steve, I have to agree with Dan on this one. The key is diversification. One fact that needs to be pointed out that OKC has yet to attract a Fortune 500 company as it headquarters base, with maybe the exception of Sandridge Energy which I do not know if this is a Fortune 500 company. As far as your statement about OKC needing more corporate headquarters that aren't energy related? I have to say "absolutelyl" not "probably". OKC needs to have a cushion to rely on besides just the oil and gas industry. Did we really learn from the 80's?

Ok Progressive Boy, you're right: "absolutely."
And I don't think anyone is arguing about the need for more diversification. But to say this town has lost every major corporate hq that isn't oil or gas related is inaccurate.

One fact that needs to be pointed out that OKC has yet to attract a Fortune 500 company as it headquarters base, with maybe the exception of Sandridge Energy which I do not know if this is a Fortune 500 company.

Are you saying there are no Fortune 500 companies in OKC... which is incorrect... or that there are no Fortune 500 companies that have moved here?

Luckily, 'energy' itself is diversifying... either way energy is here to stay.

ProgressiveBoy, Fortune 500 companies rarely relocate. They are built from the ground up. See Chesapeake and Devon. Sonic has seen a lot of growth and so has Hobby Lobby. Midfirst now operates in Arizona in addition to Oklahoma, and I wouldn't be surprised if they started branching into more states and becoming a regional bank.

Are you saying there are no Fortune 500 companies in OKC... which is incorrect... or that there are no Fortune 500 companies that have moved here?

Luckily, 'energy' itself is diversifying... either way energy is here to stay. No. Devon, CKE and OG&E are based in OKC which are Fortune 500 companies. I agree energy is diversifying and the demand is there however the fluctuations in a commodity wrecks havoc and uncertainty if a city's economy is based on just one thing. The big question I am posing is what backup plan does OKC have if O&G plummeted so low? Again, I ask the question, did we learn from the 80's???

ProgressiveBoy, Fortune 500 companies rarely relocate. They are built from the ground up. See Chesapeake and Devon. Sonic has seen a lot of growth and so has Hobby Lobby. Midfirst now operates in Arizona in addition to Oklahoma, and I wouldn't be surprised if they started branching into more states and becoming a regional bank. I have to disagree on this one as well. Atlanta "just" landed NCR = "National Cash Register Company" which is a Fortune 500 company. The city was able to lure the company away from Ohio with state incentives and with Atlanta having a dynamic business enviornment. Dallas landed AT&T last year 2008 Comerica Bank relocated to Dallas from Detroit last year Exxon in 1990, JC Penney Co in 1982 and Kimberly Clark's corporate headquarters in 1985. Large corporations tend to migrate and gravitate towards cities that can "really" make things happen! They also tend to be more diversified that is why they can offer many things to many people. Why put your eggs all in one basket?

I like how this discussion is moving along, even though it's way off topic now. OKC voters passed a GOLT bond issue (I think it was $75 million) and the Devon tower tif will include $40 million to lure a hq company to downtown. So the question is this: should we be spending time and money on stealing a hq from another city, or should we try to throw money at a promising local company? Or is this a game we should be playing?
Yep, Pete, feel free to split this into a different thread...

Steve, it's a game everyone else is playing, and unless we want to lose out to other cities, we'll play too. Yes, it's something of an arms race, but I think an investment of say $40MM which, if successful, could lure a major corporate HQ here would pay off pretty quickly in terms of economic growth and tax revenue growth.

My problem with TIF financing is that it essentially takes money away which would otherwise go mostly to the schools (via ad valorem taxes) and puts it in other pockets, in this case, private pockets. If what we're doing is attracting a business which will locate in OKC, but most of its workers will be in Moore and Edmond, our schools are basically paying for this improvement by forgoing the revenue which should be going to them so that Edmond schools and Norman schools and Moore schools can expand their tax bases with the additional residential ad valorem taxes and retail growth generated by the TIF's success.

A good example of this sort of thing is the old GM plant. Until the lawsuit which declared your former boss' OIA to not have the power to promise tax exemption, what was going to happen was that the GM plant was going to be exempt from ad valorem taxes which would have gone to the Del City Public Schools. The A.G. and Del City Public Schools opposed that move and they won. Had they not won, G.M. would have stayed there, basically on Mid-Del's dime, with most of its work force in Edmond and Moore. About 20 years later, the G.M. plant closed. Had this been a TIF, the plant would have closed about the time the TIF bond was paid off. That's the danger I see here -- once the free money benefit is gone, will the corporation start looking for free money from elsewhere? And if they do and if they leave, our schools, who bear this burden will never realize the benefits they've essentially paid for.

It's a risky proposition all in all. Have these things been considered?

I agree to an extend, Midtowner, but G.M. is a poor exmaple to use in this argument's sake. We're talking about corporate headquarters, not a vehicle assembly plant, many of which are drying up in this country anyway. An act of congress for Oklahoma to keep GM running would not have kept the plant open. GM tanked, and everyone in this country is suffering.

Progressiveboy, the best OKC can do right now, is continue to create an environment that is friendly to Fortune 500 companies. It may be easier to do now that we have a professional basketball team and a quality of life that puts the 1990s to shame, not to mention a lower income tax rate than ten years ago.

Now that all of Hertz operations are here short of the HQ itself, the city should make a pitch. I heard a rumor that once the CEO retires, Hertz' HQ will relocate from NJ to OKC, but again, it's just a rumor.

Should OKC compete with cities like Atlanta and Dallas to attract Fortune 500 companies? You bet. But let's also support the companies we have here so that they can grow into major Fortune companies, and keep the Fortune companies we have.

No. Devon, CKE and OG&E are based in OKC which are Fortune 500 companies. I agree energy is diversifying and the demand is there however the fluctuations in a commodity wrecks havoc and uncertainty if a city's economy is based on just one thing. The big question I am posing is what backup plan does OKC have if O&G plummeted so low? Again, I ask the question, did we learn from the 80's???

For the record, OG&E is not a Fortune 500 company. (They are No. 548 in the Fortune 1000)

I haven't done research on this, but I heard the Dell facility that the City helped attract with tax dollars several years ago basically screwed the City once their side of the deal was done. Something about bringing a certain amount of "high" dollar jobs to the metro...

Not real sure... does anyone know about this?

BTW, by far the most job growth is in the medium to small size companies.

Lots of cities prefer to provide incentives to these types of businesses as well as create an atmosphere conducive to start ups and innovation rather than trying to throw millions at big companies that tend to shrink rather than grow.

I'll take the dozens of medical and bio-tech firms at the OUHSC -- which tend to get little publicity -- over chasing dying companies like JC Penney any day.

This building will be an amazing landmark for OKC but does anyone else agree with me that it might be TOO tall for the surrounding buildings? I almost wish they had stopped at maybe 750 feet and then built a 2nd smaller and complementary tower. It will be cool to see such a landmark in OKC tho. one way or the other.

I don't. We'll be like a minature Dubai. It'll be like our little Burj Dubai peaking twice as tall as all the other buildings surrounding it. Granted we don't have a coastline and palm tree shaped man made islands but that's okay!

I have to disagree on this one as well. Atlanta "just" landed NCR = "National Cash Register Company" which is a Fortune 500 company. The city was able to lure the company away from Ohio with state incentives and with Atlanta having a dynamic business enviornment. Dallas landed AT&T last year 2008 Comerica Bank relocated to Dallas from Detroit last year Exxon in 1990, JC Penney Co in 1982 and Kimberly Clark's corporate headquarters in 1985. Large corporations tend to migrate and gravitate towards cities that can "really" make things happen! They also tend to be more diversified that is why they can offer many things to many people. Why put your eggs all in one basket?

Atlanta and Dallas are two of the largest metros in North America. We can't really compete with that, not for big companies like AT&T, which bailed out of longtime home San Antonio (a much better city) for no good reason. No one's arguing against diversification. We just have a lot better chance of GROWING a company that is already here. The only major corporation I can see relocating here would be Hertz because of the large presence they already have in OKC and the fact that Tulsa has two car rental companies already.

Granted we don't have a coastline and palm tree shaped man made islands but that's okay!

Yes, we do! ;)

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/Platemaker_photos/sheraton.jpg

Atlanta and Dallas are two of the largest metros in North America. We can't really compete with that, not for big companies like AT&T, which bailed out of longtime home San Antonio (a much better city) for no good reason. No one's arguing against diversification. We just have a lot better chance of GROWING a company that is already here. The only major corporation I can see relocating here would be Hertz because of the large presence they already have in OKC and the fact that Tulsa has two car rental companies already.

Are you counting Dollar/Thrifty as 2 companies?

Are you counting Dollar/Thrifty as 2 companies?

No. Vanguard (Alamo & National) is [was?] based in Tulsa. As I recall, they moved there recently from Florida because the CEO is Kathy Taylor's husband. This (http://www.hoovers.com/vanguard-car-rental/--ID__126450--/free-co-factsheet.xhtml) indicates that it's Tulsa based (so does this (http://www.linkedin.com/companies/vanguard-car-rental) and this (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=7714804)), but the National and Alamo sites say founded and headquartered in St. Louis, so I'm not sure.

No. Vanguard (Alamo & National) is [was?] based in Tulsa. As I recall, they moved there recently from Florida because the CEO is Kathy Taylor's husband. This (http://www.hoovers.com/vanguard-car-rental/--ID__126450--/free-co-factsheet.xhtml) indicates that it's Tulsa based (so does this (http://www.linkedin.com/companies/vanguard-car-rental) and this (http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=7714804)), but the National and Alamo sites say founded and headquartered in St. Louis, so I'm not sure.

"Was" is the correct verb. And briefly, at that. Yes, Kathy's husband moved the company there from Florida (yes, her major achievement as Oklahoma Secretary of Commerce was convincing her husband to move his company to his hometown). They were headquartered there for only 2-3, maybe 4 years. Then he sold it to Enterprise based in St. Louis, so that's now the headquarters, with a few back office ops left in Tulsa.

JBrown,

That's INSANE! Where has that been hiding in Bricktown?! lol

It's like that picture of our Oklahoma River with the multi building downtown skyline in the background and all these nice sailboats. I'm sure you've seen it before (although, not in person)!

JBrown,

That's INSANE! Where has that been hiding in Bricktown?! lol

It's like that picture of our Oklahoma River with the multi building downtown skyline in the background and all these nice sailboats. I'm sure you've seen it before (although, not in person)!

I think you're onto something.

Maybe there's a conspirator in the travel and leisure industry propping up OKC's rep...

Nice.

Hi Steve, thanks for reading my post. I appreciate your comments but I 100% stand by my comments. I guess its all a matter of what you consider major companies. I think of all of the ones you listed, the only one with true national exposure is Sonic - but it's still not what you would call a "major corporation." I'm talking about companies with the wherewithall to bring true national spotlight to OKC. The ones that were here, have ALL left - other than Oil and Gas. The rest are pretty much regional companies. We've had so many opportunities in the past and it seems once they get to a point where they garner some national attention, they get too big for their britches and move to Dallas or some other company buys them out.

OK, here is the statement that I hope will produce some comments - my thoughts are to eliminate the State Corporate Income Tax. My beliefs are that corporations don't truly pay income tax anyway - they pass it on thru their operational costs and the consumer is the one who eventually pays it anyway. This tax puts us at a great disadvantage to states like Texas that has no Corporate tax. Our tax automatically puts our companies at a 5% (or whatever it is) financial disadvantage to companies HQ'd in Texas. When we also have the disadvantage of no international airport and less money for property tax exemptions, corporations are far more likely to locate in Texas.

Hi Steve, thanks for reading my post. I appreciate your comments but I 100% stand by my comments. I guess its all a matter of what you consider major companies. I think of all of the ones you listed, the only one with true national exposure is Sonic - but it's still not what you would call a "major corporation." I'm talking about companies with the wherewithall to bring true national spotlight to OKC. The ones that were here, have ALL left - other than Oil and Gas. The rest are pretty much regional companies. We've had so many opportunities in the past and it seems once they get to a point where they garner some national attention, they get too big for their britches and move to Dallas or some other company buys them out.

If you stand by your comments, name these "major" companies that left for Dallas, other than Fleming, which tanked after moving their HQ to Lewisville. Kerr McGee was foundering, and was swallowed up by Anadarko, so neither of these companies got too big for their britches. If you are refering to Braniff, well okay but that was in the 1960s, and American bought them out.


OK, here is the statement that I hope will produce some comments - my thoughts are to eliminate the State Corporate Income Tax. My beliefs are that corporations don't truly pay income tax anyway - they pass it on thru their operational costs and the consumer is the one who eventually pays it anyway. This tax puts us at a great disadvantage to states like Texas that has no Corporate tax. Our tax automatically puts our companies at a 5% (or whatever it is) financial disadvantage to companies HQ'd in Texas. When we also have the disadvantage of no international airport and less money for property tax exemptions, corporations are far more likely to locate in Texas.

I agree with eliminating corporate income tax, but that doesn't explain why Atlanta is attracting major companies. Georgia, just like Oklahoma, has a 6% flat corporate income tax. Which brings us to major airport hubs. Look, Dan, that is something that is out of our control. The airlines determine where the hubs are, and they have few hubs between each airline as it is. In today's economic climate, trying to attract a new hub will take an act of congress. Atlanta does not have an advantage over OKC in corporate income tax, but Atlanta DOES have Hartsfield, and the metro area has four professional sports teams.

Which brings me to exposure. Major companies like to be based at or near cities with professional sports teams, because directly or indirectly it allows these companies to gain exposure, particularly in growing southern and southwestern cities. Professional sports teams usually fall into the mix of business conversations between executives, and it certainly helps when yoiur company is based in a city that has a team, playoffs or not. I got these impressions while watching an Astros game from a suite at Minute Maid park. Professional sports teams often break the ice, or make for good small chatter.

Oklahoma City just got its first professional team. Over time, the Thunder will pick up more exposure, as will Oklahoma City. But city leaders must continue to take care of the city aesthetically, and I feel our city leaders are keeping up.

Which brings us back to Devon Tower. It will be Oklahoma City's icon. You wanted one, you got it. I wouldn't fret over how tall it will be. Over time, several tall towers will get built to compliment Devon's HQ, even if they would be only 600 ft. tall apiece. So I wouldn't treat this is a static scenario for downtown. It is what it is, it will be what it will be. Who knows what companies will be looking for in the teens decade, or in the twenties.

Just work hard on electing pro-business leaders, and make sure you let them know you want pro-business people in office.

That or tuck tail and run to Texas like the rest of the sheep (who didn't move to Texas for in-law family reasons and have no intentions of returning).

If you are refering to Braniff, well okay but that was in the 1960s, and American bought them out.

Just a slight correction. Braniff started in 1928 in OKC by Tom Braniff, and was bought out by Universal Air Lines System in 1929. In 1934 Universal sold it off to the holding company that became American but spun it off shortly after as AVCO. The OKC operations and maintenance offices were moved to Dallas in 1935. The rest of the admin offices moved in 1942.

I saw in today's edition of the Journal Record in the "Journal blog section" that rumors are circulating that CHK Energy and even Devon Energy are starting to feel the effects of energy prices and their have been layoffs but they are being quite "low key" about them. If this continues, then perhaps the Devon Tower will either be put on hold, not built at all or scaled back significant proportions? Again, not to get off topic but I ask again, Did OKC learn from the oil bust of the 80's?

I saw in today's edition of the Journal Record in the "Journal blog section" that rumors are circulating that CHK Energy and even Devon Energy are starting to feel the effects of energy prices and their have been layoffs but they are being quite "low key" about them. If this continues, then perhaps the Devon Tower will either be put on hold, not built at all or scaled back significant proportions? Again, not to get off topic but I ask again, Did OKC learn from the oil bust of the 80's?

It's not a matter of did OKC learn from the oil bust of the 1980s. Devon and Chesapeake became major corporations much to the city's surprise. Please read my response to Dan Morgan's post.

As far as Devon Tower is concerned, it's a little too close to the start date to revise plans. However, I would be most concerned about the Cap and Trade bill. Even the energy company I work for is concerned about that. Everyone is. You should be as well.

Many of the layoffs from many companies have been field contractors. But I question the rumors as oil prices have stabilized. These companies should have felt the effects when prices were $40 a barrell. Now, in the arena of natural gas, I can see why that would be a problem.

However with natural gas, America would be stupid not to go after natural gas as an energy resource. It puts out far less carbon emissions that gasoline, and would be a draconian solution to cutting carbon emissions. However, the jokers in Washington are putting all of their eggs in one basket with wind and solar. Are they learning their lesson?

I saw in today's edition of the Journal Record in the "Journal blog section" that rumors are circulating that CHK Energy and even Devon Energy are starting to feel the effects of energy prices and their have been layoffs but they are being quite "low key" about them. If this continues, then perhaps the Devon Tower will either be put on hold, not built at all or scaled back significant proportions? Again, not to get off topic but I ask again, Did OKC learn from the oil bust of the 80's?

I happen to know of two new hires at Devon in the upper echelons quite recently. I have no idea if there have been layoffs, but they're still hiring.

Oil prices were hugely inflated anyways. The oil companies are NOT losing money, they're just not making the astronomical profits they were.

The thing is layoffs usually are reserved for the lower echelons, then the management that got them to that point.

Talked to Devon - they say they've not had any layoffs.

Talked to Devon - they say they've not had any layoffs.

Did you mean to say "they've not had any layoffs in OKC? I've heard they had a few laid off (not sure where they were) in connection with a recent reorganization of a couple of divisions.

OKC Pulse - The tone of your reply makes me think you might not have understood what I was saying because you were arguing the same side of the arguement I was. I simply made an observation that the Devon Tower is going to absolutely dominate, not just downtown but our landscape. It is more than 2x the height of any other downtown building. Aesthetically speaking, it might stand out just a tad. I am overjoyed that Devon is making such a commitment here so don't get me wrong.

First, I do stand by what I say about OKC's historic inability to keep corporate HQ's other than in Oil & Gas. I am not going all the way back to Braniff but lets talk about First Data (which was originally part of First National Bank), lets talk about - what was it US Waste (I dont think it was Waste Management) but it was bought out by US Steel or Union Carbide or someone and moved out of OKC. Think about TG&Y and the fact that had it stayed here and stayed independent, it could be Wal Mart right now. TG&Y far preceeded Wal Mart and was moving to the superstore concept. Yes, lets talk about FLeming and that their poor management ran it into the ground after they left OKC. Lets talk about Hertz and that they have eliminated hundreds of jobs and shifted them to India. Their private equity owners are sucking everything they can out of Hertz before it goes belly up. Lets talk about the fact every major plant in OKC has closed or is greatly downsized - GM, AT&T, Xerox, Dayton Tire, Fleming distribution centers, etc.

It is a fact of life that some cities, such as Dallas and Atlanta, simply have a synergy that will naturally attract new corporations or venture capital more easily than others. I am encouraged by what I see in OKC with the oil companies and the Thunder and we have the seeds of synergy starting here. However, the city and state need to do more to promote our image not just nationwide, but worldwide. We work at a great disadvantage to Texas. Our misfortune is that Texas sucks a lot of business from OKC that we might have gotten if we werent in such close proximity to Dallas. I understand that our airport isn't an International Airport, I am saying this is a disadvantage we have to overcome to attract businesses. Eliminating the corporate income tax will turn some corporate heads our way. But one way or the other, we have to diversify our economy or we will be in for another economic collapse when O & G goes out of style again.

Granted, not as many buildings, but this is what I see OKC looking like:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r170/OkStateBBall78/1820583714_65845bac9c.jpg

Thanks OKC, thats kind of the image I have. Bigger fish to fry than that though.....thx

Actually, I think that now is a great time for OKC to go after bringing companies here. California and NYC are raising taxes like crazy. We need our city commerce people to be scouting out some growing companies to come here. Our state legislature needs to look at improving our business structure to draw the companies here.

NOW IS THE TIME!

Actually, I think that now is a great time for OKC to go after bringing companies here. California and NYC are raising taxes like crazy. We need our city commerce people to be scouting out some growing companies to come here. Our state legislature needs to look at improving our business structure to draw the companies here.

NOW IS THE TIME! Agree. The state of Texas is winning alot of California's business because Texas has no corporate and state income tax and Texas has the most Fortune 500 companies (54) than any other state. Why is it that Oklahoma is not able to attract some of these big companies to the state? Is it do to business laws that are outdated and lack of competitiveness? Is it due to Texas being so close to Oklahoma that they lose out? I would think not, because Oklahoma is almost geographically smack in the middle of the country and it has 3 major Interstates running thru the city and state. This would seem a logistical dream for many companies.

Granted, not as many buildings, but this is what I see OKC looking like:

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r170/OkStateBBall78/1820583714_65845bac9c.jpg

This picture is actually pretty accurate. Take out the building under construction on the far right. The building on the far left would be the Chase tower. Stack two Chase Towers on top of each other and you have the Devon tower.

It is more than 2x the height of any other downtown building.

??? WHat gave you that impression?

Devon Tower - 925 ft
Chase Tower - 500 ft
First National Tower - 493 ft
City Place - 443 ft
Oklahoma Tower - 425 ft

It is less than twice the height of our current tallest building, and a little more than twice the height of the rest. Now, if Devon Tower were more than 1,000 ft tall, I can certainly agree with you.

First, I do stand by what I say about OKC's historic inability to keep corporate HQ's other than in Oil & Gas. I am not going all the way back to Braniff but lets talk about First Data (which was originally part of First National Bank), lets talk about - what was it US Waste (I dont think it was Waste Management) but it was bought out by US Steel or Union Carbide or someone and moved out of OKC. Think about TG&Y and the fact that had it stayed here and stayed independent, it could be Wal Mart right now. TG&Y far preceeded Wal Mart and was moving to the superstore concept. Yes, lets talk about FLeming and that their poor management ran it into the ground after they left OKC. Lets talk about Hertz and that they have eliminated hundreds of jobs and shifted them to India. Their private equity owners are sucking everything they can out of Hertz before it goes belly up. Lets talk about the fact every major plant in OKC has closed or is greatly downsized - GM, AT&T, Xerox, Dayton Tire, Fleming distribution centers, etc.

It is a fact of life that some cities, such as Dallas and Atlanta, simply have a synergy that will naturally attract new corporations or venture capital more easily than others. I am encouraged by what I see in OKC with the oil companies and the Thunder and we have the seeds of synergy starting here. However, the city and state need to do more to promote our image not just nationwide, but worldwide. We work at a great disadvantage to Texas. Our misfortune is that Texas sucks a lot of business from OKC that we might have gotten if we werent in such close proximity to Dallas. I understand that our airport isn't an International Airport, I am saying this is a disadvantage we have to overcome to attract businesses. Eliminating the corporate income tax will turn some corporate heads our way. But one way or the other, we have to diversify our economy or we will be in for another economic collapse when O & G goes out of style again.

The past is the past. All of the companies you mentioned existed in OKC during a time when OKC just didn't have synergy or quality of life. Atlanta and Dallas both have an established reputation for being corporate meccas than dates back 50 to 60 years.

I agree the city and state need to do more to promote our image worldwide. However, as far as O & G is concerned, don't you think these companies know very well that the product they push is volatile and finite? Energy companies exist to provide resources for energy, and if I owned an energy company knowing full well the roller coaster, I would prepare my company to produce and sell an alternate resource.

We dwell too much on our past mistakes. It does nothing but lower morale. Why is it that for every hurdle OKC passes, we have to review our failures?

OKC Pulse - The tone of your reply makes me think you might not have understood what I was saying because you were arguing the same side of the arguement I was. I simply made an observation that the Devon Tower is going to absolutely dominate, not just downtown but our landscape. It is more than 2x the height of any other downtown building. Aesthetically speaking, it might stand out just a tad. I am overjoyed that Devon is making such a commitment here so don't get me wrong.
After awhile you wouldn't be able to imagine the skyline without it, people had the same concerns about the Frost Bank Tower here in Austin and now The Austonian is passing it but no one says anything about Frost being "so tall" anymore.


First, I do stand by what I say about OKC's historic inability to keep corporate HQ's other than in Oil & Gas. I am not going all the way back to Braniff but lets talk about First Data (which was originally part of First National Bank), lets talk about - what was it US Waste (I dont think it was Waste Management) but it was bought out by US Steel or Union Carbide or someone and moved out of OKC. Think about TG&Y and the fact that had it stayed here and stayed independent, it could be Wal Mart right now. TG&Y far preceeded Wal Mart and was moving to the superstore concept. Yes, lets talk about FLeming and that their poor management ran it into the ground after they left OKC. Lets talk about Hertz and that they have eliminated hundreds of jobs and shifted them to India. Their private equity owners are sucking everything they can out of Hertz before it goes belly up. Lets talk about the fact every major plant in OKC has closed or is greatly downsized - GM, AT&T, Xerox, Dayton Tire, Fleming distribution centers, etc.
The majority of those examples went downhill and/or relocated due to the original ownership selling to out-of-state interests, not due to the local owners. TG&Y went downhill after selling out, Anthony's slide started when the original brothers went into retirement and the son had more interest in politics than running a family company. Fleming relocated after hiring a CEO who was already in the DFW market and pretty much made it known that he was going to move the company after attaining power whether it bankrupted the company or not. Most corporations tend to have a downhill slide after the original ownership sells out to those whose interests are strictly bottom line or related to stock price. I hear the same lamentations about Austin startups that have been bought out and moved. The owners had their payday and left the employees to live with the results. Richard Garriott is both revered and reviled by many in the software gaming community here for what has happened to his former companies and employees. For every company that move here from Silicon Valley every year there are just as many moving out of closing up. The business world is a vicious one.

The Western Electric/AT&T/Lucent situation is a bad one and the Avaya spinoff was nothing more than a stock swindle by management. The "new" company took all the profitable pieces of Lucent and left the "old" company with all the baggage. At one time Lucent was the most widely held stock in the world, what they did was devalue the company to the point that they did not have to honor those share holders. It wasn't the only case of that in the "spin-off" craze of the 90's but it was the most glaring example.


It is a fact of life that some cities, such as Dallas and Atlanta, simply have a synergy that will naturally attract new corporations or venture capital more easily than others. I am encouraged by what I see in OKC with the oil companies and the Thunder and we have the seeds of synergy starting here. However, the city and state need to do more to promote our image not just nationwide, but worldwide. We work at a great disadvantage to Texas. Our misfortune is that Texas sucks a lot of business from OKC that we might have gotten if we werent in such close proximity to Dallas. I understand that our airport isn't an International Airport, I am saying this is a disadvantage we have to overcome to attract businesses. Eliminating the corporate income tax will turn some corporate heads our way. But one way or the other, we have to diversify our economy or we will be in for another economic collapse when O & G goes out of style again.
DFW, where Oklahoma companies go to die...there are many companies who have relocated to the area from places outside Oklahoma whose final "home" was Texas and not just DFW. Most companies who move HQ are doing so because of issues in their businesses and their home markets. Just as many that move every year are also dying in their new markets after a few years. Getting into the corporate relocation game is more than a crap shoot. I would much rather work at retaining home grown companies than go after corporate whores who are willing to become corporate gypsies. The days of large scale corporate relocations being a good thing is over.


Agree. The state of Texas is winning alot of California's business because Texas has no corporate and state income tax and Texas has the most Fortune 500 companies (54) than any other state. Why is it that Oklahoma is not able to attract some of these big companies to the state? Is it do to business laws that are outdated and lack of competitiveness? Is it due to Texas being so close to Oklahoma that they lose out? I would think not, because Oklahoma is almost geographically smack in the middle of the country and it has 3 major Interstates running thru the city and state. This would seem a logistical dream for many companies.
This is another falsehood, all corporations have a tax in Texas, it is called the Texas Franchise Tax (http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/franchise/) and it has been expanded to many different business types now fall under the tax.


Franchise Tax - Frequently Asked Questions (http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/franchise/faq_tax_ent.html)
Taxable Entities

Rule 3.581

1. Besides corporations and limited liability companies (LLCs), what other entities are now subject to the revised franchise tax?
The revised franchise tax applies to partnerships (general, limited and limited liability), corporations, LLCs, business trusts, professional associations, business associations, joint ventures and other legal entities. TTC 171.0002.

2. What entities are not subject to the revised franchise tax?
The revised franchise tax does not apply to:
* sole proprietorships (except the tax does apply to single member LLCs filing as a sole proprietor for federal income tax purposes);
* general partnerships directly and solely owned by natural persons (except the tax does apply to all limited liability partnerships);
* entities exempt under Subchapter B of Chapter 171; and
* passive entities (as defined under TTC 171.0003).

Click on the link above for the rest of the FAQ

I would much rather work at retaining home grown companies than go after corporate whores who are willing to become corporate gypsies.

Exactly.

I dont know how far you want to take this off subject - but the comments above then beg the question - what businesses do we have that have that sort of potential or desire to grow to major national corporations? Where are they going to get the capital to fund the expansion? How can we then be assured that they will stay here once they get to "the point" where other states start wooing them? I still say the way to keep them and attract new ones is the same, eliminate the state corporate income tax and get aggressive at property tax exemptions for those wanting to build some sort of facility.

The Devon Tower will be so tall, that if they positioned it equidistant between 4 other shorter buildings of equivalent height, our skyline would look like a fist with a large middle finger extended. A great postcard to send to anyone in Texas.

or Seattle!

??? WHat gave you that impression?

Devon Tower - 925 ft
Chase Tower - 500 ft
First National Tower - 493 ft
City Place - 443 ft
Oklahoma Tower - 425 ft

It is less than twice the height of our current tallest building, and a little more than twice the height of the rest. Now, if Devon Tower were more than 1,000 ft tall, I can certainly agree with you.

Actually, if your numbers are correct, it's also less than twice the height of the current second tallest building.

I could have sworn I read when it came out that the Devon tower was going to be over 1000 feet tall - like 7 feet taller than any building in Dallas. Now its only to be 925?

I could have sworn I read when it came out that the Devon tower was going to be over 1000 feet tall - like 7 feet taller than any building in Dallas. Now its only to be 925?

nah, when devon made it official it was and still is 925ft.

OK - "......
slightly less than twice as high as the Chase Building......"